SOPA

[Sapphire]

The Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA), also known as H.R. 3261, is a bill that was introduced in the United States House of Representatives on October 26, 2011, by Representative Lamar Smith (R-TX) and a bipartisan group of 12 initial co-sponsors. The bill expands the ability of U.S. law enforcement and copyright holders to fight online trafficking in copyrighted intellectual property and counterfeit goods.

...

The bill would make unauthorized streaming of copyrighted content a crime, with a maximum penalty of five years in prison for 10 pieces of music or movies within six months. The bill also gives immunity to Internet services that voluntarily take action against websites dedicated to infringement, while making liable for damages any copyright holder who knowingly misrepresents that a website is dedicated to infringement

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfCLugMzZW8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WJIuYgIvKsc#!

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Thoughts?

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[darkshadow]

I though there was a post about this already? /deja vu
Anyway here is another good video about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EsiT2YRwM8

It says 14mins, but it changes to 7minutes for some reason.

[Marik]

Feds shut down file-sharing website Megaupload.com (http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/01/19/feds-shut-down-file-sharing-website)

There goes Carnage's favorite DDL site.

Edit: "Seven people have been named in an indictment and that four suspects have been taken into custody. They have been charged in northern Virginia with crimes related to online piracy."

FBI charges Megaupload operators with piracy crimes (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-57362152-261/fbi-charges-megaupload-operators-with-piracy-crimes)

Justice Department calls MegaUpload an 'international organized criminal enterprise,' founder Kim Dotcom arrested in New Zealand (http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/19/2719223/megaupload-criminal-copyright-justice-department-conspiracy)

[Carnage]

Motherfucker megaupload is the only site where I consistently get 2-3 mb/s download rates. I hope Kim Schmitz wins his lawsuit.

[darkshadow]

Wow that is so messed up, if this goes through then it's pretty much the end for every other filesharing website out there..

[dragonrage]

IRC might be next.

[Kraco]

Makes me want to stop buying American movies.

[Edort4]

Woah thats one huge hit to the internet and the so called "cloud" that is supposed to be the future. The biggest webpage of file sharing supposed to have the 5% of the content of the internet.

I have a few questions anyway. Can FBI close enterprises and arrest people anywhere in the world? And isnt Megaupload a Chinese company or at least stablished there?

Already rumours spreading about anonymous attacks to justice.gov and universalmusic. This could be the start of something big. Or maybe not, we still have footbal :D

[Sapphire]

The hell? What did MU ever do?

And they extracted a citizen from another country IN another country? Um....

[XanBcoo]

Well, they are responsible for this piece of crap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Wvn-9BXVc

Edit: But yeah this is total bullshit. A sign of things to come of SOPA passes.

Edit2:
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6135/changeminds.jpg

[Xelbair]

Don't they have written somewhere in License agreement when uploading files that they aren't responsible for the content but the uploader is? And they will remove illegal content when they find it?

Nearly the same bullshit that happened with ps3 hack - guy got sued for no legal reason(he bought the console, not the license to use it, so he can do whatever he fucking wants to it - like with iphone - jailbreaking it is legal).. anyone knows what happened afterwards? all media went silent about it after a while and no one reported the verdict(or i missed it).

[Marik]

anyone knows what happened afterwards? all media went silent about it after a while and no one reported the verdict(or i missed it).

Geohot and Sony settled out of court. (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/04/11/sony-and-playstation-3-jailbreaker-george-hotz-settle-out-of-cou/)

[Xelbair]

Still bullshit to me - he hacked his console, that he acutally owns, not rents/has license for, but owns it.

and another question about MU - US isn't the only country in the world, what about other countries with different laws? even if somehow(i doubt it) they find them guilty - shouldn't they be only blocked for US?
Seriously - this shit is important. Sites have to followall laws of every country at once(impossible, and too many conflicting laws) or get shut down, or they should be resolved locally(that means NO shutting down servers, just blocking access, which is bad too)?

[Sapphire]

Well, they are responsible for this piece of crap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Wvn-9BXVc

http://puu.sh/dWz6.jpg

[Edort4]

You shouldnt worry about finding sense to these acts. Law is only there to be abided by the slaves, sorry, citizens. The ones that write & execute them dont have such trifle matters.

In the worst case scenario they will say that MU had WMD. Shame that the Internet doesnt have oil!

[Sapphire]

Random retards are DDoSing the DOJ, yeah, THAT will discourage them from passing SOPA.

SOPA is going to get passed and the first thing they'll take down is 4chan.

[Edort4]

Anonymous reported that more than 6.000 ppl attacked those webpages using DDoS. Thats quite a few random retards :rolleyes:

Some "conspiranoics", whom I love to read in a forum, are saying that the closing of MU was orchestrated to provoke this massive response to have a "casus belli" and pass the law under extreme measures and sell it to the masses.

[Sapphire]

Makes sense to me.

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People who "attack" others in order to make some sort of ideological point disgust and annoy me. It only takes about a year or two of high school history to learn that the government only gets stronger if you attack it (thus giving it a reason to become stronger and go around "protecting" things). What's worse is hive-mind DDoSers tend to do what everyone else is doing for the sake of feeling a part of something rather than to really bring about peace or freedom. Not much different from any army, actually...

[Buffalobiian]

I was going to sign up for the lifetime offer with MU too.. :(

Likewise, bullshit arrest. Not only do I hope he gets out unscathed, but that the public outburst from this will make them re-evaluate the US's ability to make such an arrest again in the future.

[Dark Dragon]

The majority of the times, these laws get passed because the general public just simply doesn't give a shit. This time, too many popular websites raised a big stink about this so it's looking very unlikely at this point that SOPA is going to get passed in its current form.

MU was getting way too big and too profitable, it was only a matter of time before it gets taken down so dinosaur organizations like MPAA and RIAA can make money. This is just another Napster, there's plenty of other file-sharing site that'll take the void MU left behind. A shame about my life time membership, but i did get like 5 years of use out of it.

I really doubt that'll file-sharing websites will ever "die". It's simply too easy to start one and it's not like the FBI have the resources to go after and create an extensive case against every file-sharing website.

[Janice]

http://megavideo.bz/

MU's new URL, apparently. Don't know if legit.

[Buffalobiian]

http://megavideo.bz/

MU's new URL, apparently. Don't know if legit.

Firefox didn't like it.


This web page at megavideo.bz has been reported as a web forgery and has been blocked based on your security preferences.

[Shadow Skill]

Seeing their image a lot on the internet. So they're basically the internet police dictating to the world what is allowed on the internet?

[Kraco]

Ho... All the arrested/accused MU execs were European? They will be dragged to the USA? Too bad European countries won't have the balls to do what China would do and arrest random American tourists/businessmen for random reasons only to be freed after these fellows are shipped back to Europe. The American accusers should come here to make their cases. Or go to NZ if that's where those dudes would rather choose to live (in prison or in freedom, based on the court's decision).

[Sapphire]

Too bad European countries won't have the balls to do what China would do and arrest random American tourists/businessmen for random reasons only to be freed after these fellows are shipped back to Europe.

I know, right? This seems like kidnapping.

Hopefully the other sites take heed.

[rockmanj]

Ho... All the arrested/accused MU execs were European? They will be dragged to the USA? Too bad European countries won't have the balls to do what China would do and arrest random American tourists/businessmen for random reasons only to be freed after these fellows are shipped back to Europe. The American accusers should come here to make their cases. Or go to NZ if that's where those dudes would rather choose to live (in prison or in freedom, based on the court's decision).

I am more surprised that they pulled that sting operation and shut down that site without a trial or due process. This makes the DOJ seem like it is truly in the pockets of the RIAA and MPAA, especially in light of this (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/judge-gives-umg-24-hours-to-explain-takedown-spree.ars) and this (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/riaa-report-card-gives-google-low-marks-for-anti-piracy-efforts.ars).

I do believe in the law, and if there is definitive proof that those executives were willing allowing as much infringing content as the plaintiffs claim, then they should be punished. However, the speed of the extraditions and shutdown are a bit alarming (even if the case has been in progress for a couple of years). Also, they were able to do all this without SOPA and PIPA. The timing seems too good.

[Munsu]

Any of you remember this situation?
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/08225217010/breaking-news-feds-falsely-censor-popular-blog-over-year-deny-all-due-process-hide-all-details.shtml

[Kraco]

“I have heard from the critics and I take seriously their concerns regarding proposed legislation to address the problem of online piracy," Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX) said. "It is clear that we need to revisit the approach on how best to address the problem of foreign thieves that steal and sell American inventions and products."

Even former Senator Chris Dodd, the head of the Motion Picture Association of America, seemed to concede defeat. "With today’s announcement, we hope the dynamics of the conversation can change and become a sincere discussion about how best to protect the millions of American jobs affected by the theft of American intellectual property,"

"foreign thieves that steal and sell..." "millions of American jobs affected by the theft..." These guys must be former North Korean refugees to use such language. They sure rose to high positions from such a humble beginning.

[rockmanj]

Any of you remember this situation?
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/08225217010/breaking-news-feds-falsely-censor-popular-blog-over-year-deny-all-due-process-hide-all-details.shtml

Yea, I do.


"foreign thieves that steal and sell..." "millions of American jobs affected by the theft..." These guys must be former North Korean refugees to use such language. They sure rose to high positions from such a humble beginning.

Neither of them are known for subtlety. The thing about Dodd though makes me feel more cynical. Just a few years ago, he was all about not having people's rights being restricted and free speech. I guess that MPAA money made him change his tune.

Also, there was a humorous clip (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-18-2012/ko-computer) showing members of US congress discussing SOPA, I believe. None of them seemed to know what it was about exactly and said that they should get some "nerds" in there and explain it to them. :\

[Munsu]

Well, looks like the "angry nerds" have won this round:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/20/technology/SOPA_PIPA_postponed/

[Death BOO Z]

Yea, I do.



Neither of them are known for subtlety. The thing about Dodd though makes me feel more cynical. Just a few years ago, he was all about not having people's rights being restricted and free speech. I guess that MPAA money made him change his tune.

Also, there was a humorous clip (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-18-2012/ko-computer) showing members of US congress discussing SOPA, I believe. None of them seemed to know what it was about exactly and said that they should get some "nerds" in there and explain it to them. :\

I always hoped that when people grow up, they stop saying "I'm no nerd" and finally admit that they mean "I'm stupid" (or at least "I'm not familiar with the subject").
well, adulthood is going to suck.

[rockmanj]

I always hoped that when people grow up, they stop saying "I'm no nerd" and finally admit that they mean "I'm stupid" (or at least "I'm not familiar with the subject").
well, adulthood is going to suck.

The correct term to use is "expert". My country is run by a lot of morons, apparently.

[Shadow Skill]

I thought those Megaupload guys got arrested due to the new laws in SOPA and PIPA?

If so, how is this going to play out now that the laws are shelved?

[rockmanj]

I thought those Megaupload guys got arrested due to the new laws in SOPA and PIPA?

If so, how is this going to play out now that the laws are shelved?

PIPA and SOPA were not laws, just acts that were about to be debated on and made into bills. like I said in an eariler post,
they were able to do all this without SOPA and PIPA. The timing seems too good.

This was done using the current legal structure of the US government, so it does not really give anyone a good reason to have pushed those ahead if they already have this much power.

[Animeniax]

This was done using the current legal structure of the US government, so it does not really give anyone a good reason to have pushed those ahead if they already have this much power.

The US govt has the power to arrest/prosecute anyone with or without laws or acts like SOPA... whether it holds up in court is another issue altogether. But regardless, the defendant(s) will spend a lot of money and a lot of potentially bad press to defend themselves.

[Shadow Skill]

This keeps up, most people won't even pay to go watch a movie or buy the DVDs/Blu-Rays.

Why risk getting arrested for viewing something before you pay for it.

If a movie can make over a Billion $$$ in this day where ticket prices are the cost of 3 days worth of food, I can see not many people supporting the movie industry or the music industry. After the whole Napster thing when many pop-stars and musicians lost out on a lot of $ due to their fanbase being largely through fans sharing music and after hearing the music went out and bought the CD. The fans retalliated and didnt buy music for years. Which cost the music indusry Billions. They forget, it's the consumer who decides who makes it in the world, not the companies.

You'd think they'd learn their lesson 12 years later on how to approach file sharing. You cut the head off on this, the consumer will retalliate and not spend $$ in a very devastated economy trying to get out of a recession the past 4 years. The RIAA and MPAA are only killing themselves, I say let them. They need a rude awakening.

I guess one can argue that maybe they want their hands on MU since they make 100s of milions a year. Maybe they just want their hands in the cookie jar. :P

All about Greed. I had no idea that Greed and having a monopoly on Music and movies was in the US constitutional rights. I thought having a monopoly on anything was against the laws in the states. To me that is what SOPA and PIPA is there for is to create a monopoly on the music and movie industry.

Ok, done with rant.

[David75]

True, I stopped going to teathers and renting Dvds around the napster case. I'm already out majors' market.

For those old enough, when the CD tech appeared in the 80's, they were already complaining the music industry was in trouble and that new tech preventing personal copy was a good thing....

[Animeniax]

I think you guys are giving the online community too much credit... Hollywood and the music industry will continue to make billions, online piracy is still a small fraction of revenue loss for these giants. Your average person will still pay to go to the movies and buy DVDs and music legitimately.

I don't know how much of this argument is about greed versus about a moral/philosophical stance. If you work, you want to get paid for it, for every last minute and bit of sweat you give to your company, and you'll make a lot of noise until payroll ponies up. But when a company demands the same, then they are being greedy?

[Xelbair]

There is this black march action going - basically it is:
do not buy OR download(legally or not) any game/music/movie etc for the whole march, just do it in April if you want to. it is end of fiscal year so this should hit them pretty hard.
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[rockmanj]

This keeps up, most people won't even pay to go watch a movie or buy the DVDs/Blu-Rays.

Why risk getting arrested for viewing something before you pay for it.

If a movie can make over a Billion $$$ in this day where ticket prices are the cost of 3 days worth of food, I can see not many people supporting the movie industry or the music industry. After the whole Napster thing when many pop-stars and musicians lost out on a lot of $ due to their fanbase being largely through fans sharing music and after hearing the music went out and bought the CD. The fans retalliated and didnt buy music for years. Which cost the music indusry Billions. They forget, it's the consumer who decides who makes it in the world, not the companies.

You'd think they'd learn their lesson 12 years later on how to approach file sharing. You cut the head off on this, the consumer will retalliate and not spend $$ in a very devastated economy trying to get out of a recession the past 4 years. The RIAA and MPAA are only killing themselves, I say let them. They need a rude awakening.

I guess one can argue that maybe they want their hands on MU since they make 100s of milions a year. Maybe they just want their hands in the cookie jar. :P

All about Greed. I had no idea that Greed and having a monopoly on Music and movies was in the US constitutional rights. I thought having a monopoly on anything was against the laws in the states. To me that is what SOPA and PIPA is there for is to create a monopoly on the music and movie industry.

Ok, done with rant.

I am not trying to protect the MPAA or anything, but apparently, they studios are charged a lot of money to shoe their movies in theaters, and that is one reason tickets cost so much. The theaters, in turn, don't seem to make that much off of showing movies and mark up snacks. I don't want to get into the economics of this system, but it does cost a lot of money to film and show movies.

On the other hand, the claims that the lobbying groups are making about "lost revenue" are totally unsubstantiated. Nobody knows how much money is lost from piracy, but they tend to quote these astronomical figures and the US government quotes them as fact. Add in the political elements, and you have a shitstorm.

I don't know how well that black march thing will go. It really isn't a lot of time, but asking people to go a month without entertainment is probably too much for most. I don't agree with this guy's (http://maddox.xmission.com/) tone or stance, but his boycott (at the bottom) sounds like a good idea.

[Marik]

I found this interesting...


I’m assuming most of you know about what happened to Megaupload. Fileserve has decided to pull its affiliate program because of that, so our source of income is gone. We’re probably going to add some advertisements since asking you faggots to donate to Me is a whole waste of time. Fuck you all.

Those money laundering and racketeering charges put other file hosts on notice.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't know how well that black march thing will go. It really isn't a lot of time, but asking people to go a month without entertainment is probably too much for most. I don't agree with this guy's (http://maddox.xmission.com/) tone or stance, but his boycott (at the bottom) sounds like a good idea.

On the other hand, I'm totally with him. I always asked my parents when I was younger as to why people even protest in the first place. If I wasn't threatened and could do what I want, why would I care that a few people are making noise on my doorstep?

[Shadow Skill]

I understand what you're saying about being paid for the sweat you put out in a hard day work. However, it is flawed by the simple fact that every company/employer out there will try to find ways to make your pay less and mostly when you work overtime for time and half and double time. My work place will deduct Dinner (hour) and lunch 30 minutes. Sometimes 2 lunches in a day so you lose out on 2 hours of pay if you work a 14-18 hour shift. So you get paid for 16 hours.

As you said, it is perfectly alright to demand a fair pay for a day work. You and everyone else, will never get the proper pay for a day work. Regardless how you look at it, you get ripped off but you can't sue or charge your work place for failing to pay you properly. All because your work place wants to save $$. :P

Now as for the music and movie industry. They don't demand you pay them. They dictate it and enforce the fact that you have to pay only them for a movie or music. If you don't, you get arrested, charged for a thousand different things and they expect you to pay a 150,000 dollar fine in the end. I am sure everyone remembers the 12 year old girl in New York who got charged and sued over downloading one song that she paid 99 cents for.

As a consumer I have no problems paying for music or movies. I have a mere 50 Blu-Rays and 90 DVDs. These laws or acts (Which will become law later on) make me wonder why I throw money at them, only to have them turn around and use that money to aggresively arrest and charge people around the world.

I totally agree with the Black March thing. I live in Canada and for the month of March. I will not buy a music CD or a movie. I usually buy 2 Blu-Ray movies a month. I hope many around the world do the same thing. Why support a corrupt industry full of greed?

[Uchiha Barles]

Whoops, you're right rockman, my bad for missing it.

To Mods: Delete this post when you get a chance.

[Buffalobiian]

I understand what you're saying about being paid for the sweat you put out in a hard day work. However, it is flawed by the simple fact that every company/employer out there will try to find ways to make your pay less and mostly when you work overtime for time and half and double time. My work place will deduct Dinner (hour) and lunch 30 minutes. Sometimes 2 lunches in a day so you lose out on 2 hours of pay if you work a 14-18 hour shift. So you get paid for 16 hours.

As you said, it is perfectly alright to demand a fair pay for a day work. You and everyone else, will never get the proper pay for a day work. Regardless how you look at it, you get ripped off but you can't sue or charge your work place for failing to pay you properly. All because your work place wants to save $$. :P

I'm not sure who "you" refers.

In response to the post, I should say that a malfunctioning of one system doesn't mean you should apply or spread it to others. The fact that your boss withholds money from you doesn't mean it's fine or alright to to start stealing from a shop because "no one is paid in full, so why should the owner be".

Lunch-hours being deducted here is perfectly normal.. and to be honest I don't see a problem with it. They're paying you to work.. not have lunch. What I actually dislike here is that they usually limit your lunchtime to 30mins. It'd be good if it was more negotiable. Many of my bosses have been lenient on this though as they realise 30-mins sharp is pretty shit.

[Shadow Skill]

It's not my boss doing the deducting it's the people in payroll. I work through a lot of my lunchtimes and I get no dinner until I get home. Call it stealing, I call it being cheap. :P Those 2 hours would = $90 on double time. So ya they will take shortcuts in pay if they can find it. :/

I was referring to animaniax(sp?).

It's not one system, it's in every system.

[rockmanj]

Maddox rant on SOPA defeat. (http://maddox.xmission.com/)

It's worth reading.

I think that is the exact link I posted...

[David75]

Napster downfall created new monsters called donkey and torrent, then solutions such as MU.
I guess the streaming service was too much and called for the reaction they got...
Now that MU has been taken down, I wonder what we'll get as a counter...

Main weakness for torrent and donkey are link sites.
Another is the IP adress that is shared (although there are solutions, but again relying on servers such as VPNs)
Get rid of that and you get a purely serverless and anonymous system.
Torrent is almost there. I do not know for donkey as I stopped using it years ago.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought Winny was already at the anonymous-sharing stage. It was the creator who got apprehended, as well as one or more users who were tracked down via the forum feature of the program (because they were using it to post the links or whatever is required to download?).

[David75]

Read a little about that after your message.
Seems like the offspring is a little too demanding. At least if Perfect Share is supposed to be the offspring.
I read things like 40GB hard drive dedicated space and minimum 100KB/s upload speed.

[Shadow Skill]

That maddox guy has some good points.

Everyone knows the RIAA and MPAA will never admit to releasing crappy music and very bad movies, which is why they don't sell as many albums. They blame piracy, rather than the fact that a lot of what is released is just very bad entertainment that nobody wants. :P

[David75]

Well, majors have been complaning for over 30 years their industry is drowning.
Yet many guys get millions out of that business.
I'm not advocating so called piracy, just adding elements.

[rockmanj]

Filesonic shuts down "sharing" functionality. (http://torrentfreak.com/filesonic-kills-file-sharing-after-megaupload-arrests-120122/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Torrentfreak+%28Torrentfreak% 29) Covering their asses maybe?

[Sapphire]

Holy damn. What are the other top 8 file sharing sites?

Why don't they just move their servers to Sweden...

[Marik]

Filesonic shuts down "sharing" functionality. (http://torrentfreak.com/filesonic-kills-file-sharing-after-megaupload-arrests-120122/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Torrentfreak+(Torrentfreak))C overing their asses maybe?

Yeah, and Upload.to (http://uploaded.to) has blocked access from the U.S.

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[Dark Dragon]

Well, looks like it's time to move on to FTP and IRC.

[rockmanj]

Wow, the US government seems to really have gotten under the skin of file lockers.

[Dark Dragon]

They're most likely just playing it safe and see how the Megaupload trials turn out. Please remember that Rapidshare has won many high profile cases in the past, so there's still a chance MU could win if it was just the aiding piracy allegations.

[Sapphire]

They were also accused of racketeering, which sounds like some Wild West shit.

[Xelbair]

you've heard of ACTA(similar shit to SOPA, but international)? guess what happened in Poland - current ruling party just signed it - without any consultation or debate, because 'there were no protests against it'... but they never disclosed then contents of it and did it without informing public that they were even discussing it. Anonymous retaliated ofc.. prime minister and all of those ministers who supported ACTA sites are hacked(not just DDOS, their content is replaced) - primie minister's one is cool(btw - i've never ever seen person more lazy than him - first thing he did after getting elected - he went on vacation, and he is still 'missing' to public opinion) - content is replaced with anti acta manifest plus the video mocking jaruzelski's(general in PRL) speech that gave the control of the country to military and enforced strict restrictions.

[Assertn]

It's not my boss doing the deducting it's the people in payroll. I work through a lot of my lunchtimes and I get no dinner until I get home. Call it stealing, I call it being cheap. :P Those 2 hours would = $90 on double time. So ya they will take shortcuts in pay if they can find it. :/

I was referring to animaniax(sp?).

It's not one system, it's in every system.

That's not objectively true. Case in point my company. The CEO already has enough money to retire. Has a huge house, drives a lambo, but he loves buiilding businesses. He also makes it his goal in the businesses he creates to share the wealth with all his employees.

Now where you're most likely to see budget cuts are in either cut-throat startups running on fumes or publicly traded companies that have to constantly worry about appeasing the board. I've worked in both situations, and both are annoying.

[Shadow Skill]

It is difficult to say and I made a brash statement based on previous and current employers and not the entire economic structure as a whole, as I have no worked in every sector of the economy.

My personal view is that a lot of any cuts anywhere has to do with greed and very few companies are about the employees and are all for the so-called "Almighty Dollar".

I look at the movie and music industry. They don't pay the actors a heck of a lot in some movies, especially if the movie makes $300,000,000 or an Albums sells 10 Million copies and they have $250,000,000 off one album. How much of that really goes back in to the movie or music industry?

The recording companies make that, not the actual performers. With them going after people around the world who view something that should not be, either a leaked preview that's 5 or 10 minutes long or a leaked song 2 weeks before the album release. My opinion is, someone may download it and listen to it, in the end, I can gaurentee if the person likes the song or the preview, They buy the movie on Blu-Ray or DVD or the entire album on release day.

I am not standing up for piracy. I do believe certain aspects of it, help drive the economy of certains areas. I can't fathom why the MPAA or RIAA refuse to accept that they are at fault for not making that extra 10 Million dollars.

They make Billions a year and if they don't reach their projected goal of 12 Billion dollars, they call it a loss. So they make 9 Billion dollars, but they projected 12 Billion. They will post a 3 Billion dollar loss and blame it on someone, rather than take responsibility for releasing craptastic movies or very very shitty (C)rap/pop music.

To me, that is greed in its finest form. Arrest people, charge them, sue them and tell the world, those people are at fault for them not making 3 Billion more than they should have. Yet all the heads of those companies are rich beyond any person wildest dreams. 9 Billion dollars? I wish I had a company that could make that.

The way I see it, they made 9 Billion dollars. A company should only claim what they had made, rather than claim a loss on projected figures. Those are non-existent numbers that did not exist and never will exist. Those numbers only exist in a persons mind and not in reality. That is where the problems stems from. You take projected figures and only focus on currect gains. A company will never have to post a loss. Especially a loss that is fictional, a fictional loss that the US congress and government take as true facts. That is mind boggling. A company can post a loss and blame it on the moon rising 3 degrees lowers the day before instead of 2 degrees higher. The US government will accept that as a fact. That is a story no different than blaming piracy for so-called billions of dollars in a fictional loss. They still made 9 Billion dollars. Where is the loss in that? It does not exist.

Ok, end rant lol.

[dragonrage]

I seldomly go to the movie theaters anymore because I like quite and chatter to a minimum, for some reason there is always one really inconsiderate person in the theater. Don't think it's worth the 13, 17 or 21 dollars (IMAX, 3D) if I don't enjoy it. If I like the movie, I buy the dvd. I say fuck'em otherwise.

If they implement a system where I can watch the move at home a week or two after it comes out in theaters a more hasty on-demand system I all for it. Or if they can get all the assholes out of the theaters i'll be in the theaters every Wednesday ( use to be my previous movie night for years).

Music it's somewhat mixed. Don't want to buy an entire album when only one song is good. I do buy music online to support the artist and do go to see them when they are in town once in a while.



That's not objectively true. Case in point my company. The CEO already has enough money to retire. Has a huge house, drives a lambo, but he loves buiilding businesses. He also makes it his goal in the businesses he creates to share the wealth with all his employees.

Now where you're most likely to see budget cuts are in either cut-throat startups running on fumes or publicly traded companies that have to constantly worry about appeasing the board. I've worked in both situations, and both are annoying.

Assertn, Some of what you said is true but the rest is total bullshit. CEO's care about there bottle line. If they didn't they wouldn't look for the lowest labor and production cost and charge high prices to boast profits. CEO's build and maintain companies so they can maintain their standard of living and GREED. If they really wanted to share the wealth they would invest in the same people that buy their products instead of outsourcing; give and take, not give a little and take a lot.

[rockmanj]

And now Fileserve is offline. (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/fileserve-shutters-in-light-of-file-sharing-site-crackdown/67739)

Not all CEOs are bad, you know. It is their primary job to ensure the overall health of the company and act as a representative. Some do actually invest in their workers and communities.

[dragonrage]

Didn't say they were bad. Just their primary concern is their bottle line. Most if not all those investment into communities are written off one way or the other. It's simply business, companies are there to make money.

You know what I think all this is about, a lot of internet based companies are making billions upon billions of dollars. Not much manual labor intensive work and these companies are pissed and jealous. Richman penis envy.

[rockmanj]

Well, there is a concept known as the "triple bottom line", which aims at not only driving the profit margin but also supporting the community and the environment. A number of businesses are beginning to embrace this, as it is good PR and also attracts young talent.

[Kraco]

If all your competitors cut costs brutally and you don't, you'll lose your business sooner or later. Even companies like Apple who have millions of loyal zombies are producing their stuff in the cheap labour countries and have been involved in scandals about horrible working conditions in those outsourced production plants.

[rockmanj]

You mean Foxconn (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399186,00.asp)? I actually had a short discussion about the fact that there are a lot of places (like factories) that people work at but can't afford the thing they are making and the irony behind that.

[Kraco]

I actually had a short discussion about the fact that there are a lot of places (like factories) that people work at but can't afford the thing they are making and the irony behind that.

I'm not sure I get your meaning. A worker not being able to afford what he's working on is as natural as a worker being able to afford it. It has also been like that throughout human civilization, not only from the 19th century and heavy industrialization. If you are meaning they can't afford a single phone, then yes, there's some irony in it. But let's not forget that if we move to luxury items, houses, cars, and such things, there are also people in Western countries who can only dream of affording what they are assembling.

[Assertn]

If all your competitors cut costs brutally and you don't, you'll lose your business sooner or later. Even companies like Apple who have millions of loyal zombies are producing their stuff in the cheap labour countries and have been involved in scandals about horrible working conditions in those outsourced production plants.

Obama raised the question about bringing factory jobs back to the US to Steve Jobs, and his response is that it will never come back. Not only is it cheaper to have the factories overseas, the employees at those factories tend to be much more efficient as well. One of the recent generation iPhones needed to have all their screens replaced 3 weeks before the public release, and the new screens were shipped to the factories, workers were brought in that night from the dormitories near the factories, and the whole system to implement the new screens were operational within a day or so.

There's a lot of crazy work ethic out there.

[Munsu]

Obama raised the question about bringing factory jobs back to the US to Steve Jobs, and his response is that it will never come back. Not only is it cheaper to have the factories overseas, the employees at those factories tend to be much more efficient as well. One of the recent generation iPhones needed to have all their screens replaced 3 weeks before the public release, and the new screens were shipped to the factories, workers were brought in that night from the dormitories near the factories, and the whole system to implement the new screens were operational within a day or so.

There's a lot of crazy work ethic out there.

Perfect example is how the Steel Workers Union forced Obama to put a 25-35% additional tax to tires imported from China and what that ended up doing is completely messed up the tire industry. American tire companies simply looked for factories in alternative countries, and raised their prices substantially now that they didn't have the cheap tires weighing them down instead of providing cheaper alternatives which was the idea behind the tax.

[rockmanj]

I'm not sure I get your meaning. A worker not being able to afford what he's working on is as natural as a worker being able to afford it. It has also been like that throughout human civilization, not only from the 19th century and heavy industrialization. If you are meaning they can't afford a single phone, then yes, there's some irony in it. But let's not forget that if we move to luxury items, houses, cars, and such things, there are also people in Western countries who can only dream of affording what they are assembling.

Well that, and I was talking to someone that I know that was assisting in building a facility where vegetables were to be grown on site. The vegetables were going to be sold at a very high cost, meaning that the people involved in planting and running the outfit would not be able to afford them. I think that has mostly been a trend in the Western world and modern civilization. There are still places where people share in what they make/create/build, but you still have to admit that it is kind of ironic.

And I am not saying we go full socialist or anything. And factory or manufacturing job in the US? I don't see a full revival happening, but I think if investors get more involved in the green economy, it could provide a bit of a boost.

But back on topic, more on the Megaupload case and the chilling effect it is having on file locker services. (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/legal-experts-say-megaupload-faces-long-odds.ars?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Te chnica+-+Featured+Content%29)

And the NYT piece about Apple manufacturing in China http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

[Assertn]

And the NYT piece about Apple manufacturing in ChinaL http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Yeah, that was the exact article I read.

[Animeniax]

Obama raised the question about bringing factory jobs back to the US to Steve Jobs, and his response is that it will never come back. Not only is it cheaper to have the factories overseas, the employees at those factories tend to be much more efficient as well. One of the recent generation iPhones needed to have all their screens replaced 3 weeks before the public release, and the new screens were shipped to the factories, workers were brought in that night from the dormitories near the factories, and the whole system to implement the new screens were operational within a day or so.

There's a lot of crazy work ethic out there.
It's not really work ethic... it's do or die. People aren't given the option to work late hours or come in at night for an emergency, they are forced to. Sooner or later, the drones will revolt, and manufacturing in southeast Asian countries will fall. It may never return to the US, but it won't be sustainable in any human population.

[Y]

Obama raised the question about bringing factory jobs back to the US to Steve Jobs, and his response is that it will never come back. Not only is it cheaper to have the factories overseas, the employees at those factories tend to be much more efficient as well. One of the recent generation iPhones needed to have all their screens replaced 3 weeks before the public release, and the new screens were shipped to the factories, workers were brought in that night from the dormitories near the factories, and the whole system to implement the new screens were operational within a day or so.

There's a lot of crazy work ethic out there.

They have "great work ethic" because these facilities are perhaps one step removed from a slave labor operation or a prison farm.

[rockmanj]

Not quite SOPA, but it could have a chilling effect: http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/26/twitter-changes-the-contours-of-censorship-with-country-by-country-blocking/

And more about Foxconn (http://www.propublica.org/article/by-the-numbers-life-and-death-at-foxconn)

[Dark Dragon]

Key points from the 72 pages Megaupload indictment. (http://gigaom.com/2012/01/19/megaupload-indictment/)

[Uchiha Barles]

That stuff is pretty damning. I appreciate the timing in going after them and making a public spectacle out of it.

[Carnage]

I dont understand why people dont just assume that any conversation over the internet can easily be found and used against them in court.

[Dark Dragon]

Or any conversation over any sort of technology that can be tracked period.

This is pretty huge in Europe right now, but not too sure how many in the states actually knows about ACTA (http://www.stopacta.info/about). It could potentially be even more problematic than SOPA due to the scale and members involves.

Japan already signed it, so i feel like this could have a pretty huge effect on the future of the anime subbing community.

[Buffalobiian]

IRC's all good for a download or two, but it takes a fair bit more learning (or friends to write you scripts) to get things like queuing and bandwidth allocations to work. Torrents still have their place as far as large/batch file downloads go. Time to go underground.

[Animeniac77]

for "DL" links has anyone tried this site yet? http://www.anonyupload.com/ <-- can read up a lil about it on the site O,..,e

[rockmanj]

That 2nd guy just sounds like a dick, but it is kind of a cool story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/30/anonymous-internet-war_n_1233977.html?ref=technology

And a cool infographic (http://matadornetwork.com/change/infographic-why-the-movie-industry-is-so-wrong-about-sopa/)

[rockmanj]

Canada getting in on the act: http://boingboing.net/2012/02/02/major-labels-demand-that-sopa.html

[Kraco]

Yeah. A day or two after SOPA was shelved in the USA, the Finnish equivalent of a music/movie copyright organization proposed draconian laws resembling SOPA. It seems to me the agencies elsewhere in the Western world might have expected SOPA to pass and thus were timing their own proposals like this (it's the same global corporations everywhere, after all). But with what happened in the USA, it just looks hilarious in a sad way.

[rockmanj]

Interesting argument, and one I have been making for a while: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/02/enough-already-the-sopa-debate-ignores-how-much-copyright-protection-we-already-have/252742/

[Uchiha Barles]

I went to btjunkie.org and saw this:

http://btjunkie.org/goodbye.html

Now I'm sad.

[rockmanj]

Another draconian bill in the works: http://venturebeat.com/2012/02/18/internet-surveillance-bill/

[rockmanj]

Scare tactics: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/police-download-a-file-go-to-jail-for-10-years-and-pay-an-unlimited-fine.ars

[rockmanj]

Interesting piece: http://elidourado.com/blog/copyright-theory-vs-copyright-law/

[Sapphire]

Scare tactics: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/police-download-a-file-go-to-jail-for-10-years-and-pay-an-unlimited-fine.ars

Good to know that there aren't any morally forceful psychopaths in the government over here!

[Assertn]

Scare tactics: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/police-download-a-file-go-to-jail-for-10-years-and-pay-an-unlimited-fine.ars

I was compelled to find some infographics on the profitability of the music industry and the effects of piracy. Found this:
http://articles.clickitticket.com/MoneyMusicandPiracy.asp

[Buffalobiian]

I was compelled to find some infographics on the profitability of the music industry and the effects of piracy. Found this:
http://articles.clickitticket.com/MoneyMusicandPiracy.asp

I don't understand what "Cost to hire for artist" vs "Average cut for artist" is on about..

I would have thought it's talking about the "cost to run a concert" vs "cut left over for artist", but the wording doesn't support that idea.

[Animeniax]

I think that infographic is self-serving and probably not supportable by facts. I'll bet the RIAA and MPAA commissioned the creation of that infographic, and therefore its results are questionable in accuracy and validity.

[rockmanj]

That is an...interesting infographic to say the least.

[Kraco]

I don't understand what "Cost to hire for artist" vs "Average cut for artist" is on about..

I would have thought it's talking about the "cost to run a concert" vs "cut left over for artist", but the wording doesn't support that idea.

Concert ticket prices are directly related to the cost of hiring a particular artist, with the profit margin and overhead for the concert organizer (such as the rent of the concert hall, hiring people to sell tickets and gorillas to keep order, etc). What the artist gets must include not only what the actual musicians pocket personally but also any background singers, transferring their equipment, any special effects they need and all the other jazz, like their personal manager's wages. So, there are actually two overheads at play all the time, in addition to two profit margins.

Or like the small text on the site said: "As for an artist's cut of the live revenues, generally speaking, they are paid about half of a show's gross. However, their share must cover their booking agent and manager's commissions, production costs, tour crew salaries, and travel expenses, so the actual artist may or may not pocket considerable cash."

So, the graph showed both the overheads and the local organizer's profit combined (on the left, blue) and then the pure artist's earnings (on the right, white). That's how I understood it.

[Buffalobiian]

I still don't get it. Who hires artists??

Example: Lady Gaga starts a concert. Taylor Swift makes a guest appearance. Who hires who?




---------------------------
edit: Just did a search and saw this... when did this shit start happening? :S
edit2: Act was in place since 1998???
edit3: Funi filed the complaint.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3724/19921828.png

[Kraco]

I still don't get it. Who hires artists??

Example: Lady Gaga starts a concert. Taylor Swift makes a guest appearance. Who hires who?

As far as I know, the organizers are people/companies in the local/nation's music world, businessmen, or even some organizations that could use the profits for a charity or funding junior sports or whatever. They strike a deal with an artist (the artist's manager) and arrange the concert place plus the selling of tickets, booking hotels, etc. I suppose domestically a band could potentially arrange their own concerts as well, and for minor bands that would seem likely, if they play at clubs and such. The managers of more fresh artists might need to market them.

[Shadow Skill]

So... they are using almost unlimited resources at a cost of maybe 100's of millions, maybe in to the billions by the time this is over with and all to tell a few downloaders "You are wrong, we are right. Now pay us 100s of thousands in restitution'.

When the cost to make back a few hundred thousand dollars outweighs the actual cost of bringing a few downloaders to justice? It's nice to know the music and movie industry as well as the governments are willing to waste 100s of millions and maybe billions of Tax payer dollars just to make a few measely dollars. I guess the quest for the almighty dollar is very intoxicating.

My theory is, those companies are committing fraud, hiding/transferring undeclared money and blaming so-called fictional losses on piracy.

That's the only reason I can see why the governments accept "Projected figures" as fact when it's nothing more than a hypothesized unrealistic fictional qouta/income. I suspect there is more to the MPAA + RIAA vs Piracy stance. Teh cost of all this is already staggering.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought when a company solicits congress and pays millions to pass a bill, it's considered bribery and illegal. Only way bills like this make it so congress must mean there are a few congressmen in the MPAA and RIAA's back pockets.

None of it makes any sense. Waste money to cause a ruckus and divert attention. :P

FBI should investigate the MPAA and RIAA for wrongdoing. In capitalist America, the people have no rights, only corporations can exceed their legal boundaries and create their own legal boundaries.

My thoughts on the matter.

[rockmanj]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought when a company solicits congress and pays millions to pass a bill, it's considered bribery and illegal. Only way bills like this make it so congress must mean there are a few congressmen in the MPAA and RIAA's back pockets.

None of it makes any sense. Waste money to cause a ruckus and divert attention. :P

FBI should investigate the MPAA and RIAA for wrongdoing. In capitalist America, the people have no rights, only corporations can exceed their legal boundaries and create their own legal boundaries.

My thoughts on the matter.

Actually, if you are registered, it is called "lobbying" and technically legal if done "right".

[Edort4]

Actually, if you are registered, it is called "lobbying" and technically legal if done "right".

Is it legal because the congressman decided it to be legal in some bill decades ago or is it in the U.S. Constitution?

I guess they never heard about "conflict of interest", prevarication, bribery and "charge incompatibilities". At least they dont hide it, but I dont know if thats good or even sadder.

[rockmanj]

Is it legal because the congressman decided it to be legal in some bill decades ago or is it in the U.S. Constitution?

I guess they never heard about "conflict of interest", prevarication, bribery and "charge incompatibilities". At least they dont hide it, but I dont know if thats good or even sadder.

It is a form of free speech, and would fall under 1st amendment protections (right to petition) and the courts have upheld it as such. What is really sad is that technically, the Citizen's United case can be looked at as the "correct" decision in legal terms, although morally, probably not the case, since everyone knows that the people with the most money have the most "speech". Sometimes the law can be right and wrong at the same time.

There are some interesting books on the subject. If you are so inclined, check out the Jack Abramoff book Capitol Punishment. He was a lobbyist that got caught and he writes about the seedy underbelly of Washington's lobbying scene.

[Marik]

Hotfile will be the next to go...

MPAA attempts Hotfile takedown: Online file-sharing is dead (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/mpaa-attempts-hotfile-takedown-online-file-sharing-is-dead/71145)

[Kraco]

MPAA won't stop until even search engines like Google will only be allowed to give search results from a list preapproved by MPAA lawyers. Naturally nothing will get approved for years unless you donate a little money to MPAA behind the scenes.