Anime Quality Inquiry

[NaRuTo001]

OK so I don't know whether or not this is the right place to be posting this but what the heck here goes.......

So I'm having a little rant about some quality issues I'm having with my subbed anime at the moment.I'm just not satisfied with the quality difference when the file size is pretty much exactly the same but both are in different formats.I'm a little fussy when it comes to being an anime fan I mean aren't we all?We all want decent quality otherwise it's terrible to watch.If your like me and are a sub fan you expect easy to read and clear subtitles so If you don't have a clue what I'm on about at the moment I'll just give you a little example in pictures to make it more simple to understand.so heres picture 1
:1041
the image above shows you a pretty appalling screenshot of an episode of my favourite Anime Naruto it's in MP4 so were playing in quicktime. whats wrong with it? well I'm playing it in full screen and the quality to me seems terrible,you might be thinking just watch it in a smaller window so it isn't as fuzzy well I have already tried that which results in not being able to read the subtitles at all, it's just crap the subtitles being fuzzy aswell as the lack in quality I mean come on the filesize is big enough 131mb which I'll then compare to this image
:1042
this is abit more larger in filesize 173mb It's not to bigger jump in size but it seems to be so much more decent in quality way easier to read full screen not fuzzy issues.Ok I bet your wondering why doesn't this d#*%$bag just stop whinning and moaning and just watch it in that quality and format we'll I do but I don't again me being a picky anime watcher here I perfer my format of mp4 rather that avi I like to have it available for my ipod If I'm not watching it on my computer.Anyways when I convert to ipod format thats the best quality in size wise of having it for my ipod and in mp4,if I convert any higher it just seems to me like a waste of space on my laptop for a guy who only has a harddrive capacity of 160gb.to wrap up my rant on this what I want to know is,Is there a way of having my Naruto episodes still in roughly the same filesize and having any better decency in quality it's honestly unbearable to watch I don't want to switch to any other formats I've came to the point where I'm almost giving up the gun and switching to dubs what a joke......uhhhh can anyone bother to help me with this issue?

[Buffalobiian]

So the MP4 screenshot is of a file that you converted yourself from the original Aone file?

If you just chucked it into some auto-encoder which had an "iPod Quality" preset, it may well have automatically reduced the resolution as part of the converstion. Once that happens, it'll naturally look shit full-screen on your PC. It's iPod Quality after all.

[NaRuTo001]

[QUOTE=Buffalobiian;501491]So the MP4 screenshot is of a file that you converted yourself from the original Aone file?

Well not quite as you can see they're both diffent episodes the mp4 is episode 139 but is indeed originally an ANBU Aone file IDK why I put the other screenshot of episode 101 up I don't know where the orignal Aone of 139 is on my laptop anyway so ok if it is't an ipod preset and just an MP4 conversion to roughly the same size shouldn't it just convert to the mp4 extension not mucking round with the quality at all?:) thanks for replying though haha.

[NaRuTo001]

wait a minute should this be thread be shifted to General support if so how am I mean't to do that?

[Buffalobiian]

[QUOTE=Buffalobiian;501491]So the MP4 screenshot is of a file that you converted yourself from the original Aone file?

Well not quite as you can see they're both diffent episodes the mp4 is episode 139 but is indeed originally an ANBU Aone file IDK why I put the other screenshot of episode 101 up I don't know where the orignal Aone of 139 is on my laptop anyway so ok if it is't an ipod preset and just an MP4 conversion to roughly the same size shouldn't it just convert to the mp4 extension not mucking round with the quality at all?:) thanks for replying though haha.

Well.. a lot more goes in the background than just file size. If the program is defaulting to h264 for the mp4 conversion, a same-quality conversion should actually yield a smaller file size due to the better efficiency of the H264 encode. (I say "should", because some auto-encoders I've played with will actually blow it up bigger for some bizzare reason).

If it's just slapping the file (xvid by default for Aone back then I believe), the file size shouldn't be that different.

Back on topic, it really depends on the settings and how the program wishes to muck around with the video based on its presets.

Instead of adjusting file size (if that's what you're doing), try to change the quality setting somehow if you're transcoding.

[NaRuTo001]

[QUOTE=NaRuTo001;501493]

Well.. a lot more goes in the background than just file size. If the program is defaulting to h264 for the mp4 conversion, a same-quality conversion should actually yield a smaller file size due to the better efficiency of the H264 encode. (I say "should", because some auto-encoders I've played with will actually blow it up bigger for some bizzare reason).

If it's just slapping the file (xvid by default for Aone back then I believe), the file size shouldn't be that different.

Back on topic, it really depends on the settings and how the program wishes to muck around with the video based on its presets.

Instead of adjusting file size (if that's what you're doing), try to change the quality setting somehow if you're transcoding.

I kind of understand what your saying as I'm not to good with encoding and codecs and all that all I use is xilisoft hd video converter to convert my anime into mp4 anyway I may sound quite stingy here but I wish there was some easier solution as to downloading naruto in mp4 I know a few sites which have them available but the quality issue comes into again with the subtitles being unbearable to read.I don't really want to keep downloading anbu aone files and then having to convert them to mp4 it seems to me like a waste of bandwidth.ok so are you saying that I can download lets say one of the bad quality naruto episodes for example an 80mb naruto which I found an sort of up the quality by converting it to a higher file size but still the same format? again sorry if I'm on the wrong page here I'm not to good with tech talk lol.

[Buffalobiian]

ok so are you saying that I can download lets say one of the bad quality naruto episodes for example an 80mb naruto which I found an sort of up the quality by converting it to a higher file size but still the same format?

Scroll down for tl;dr version

No. Transcoding (changing something from one encoding method to another - eg xvid to h264) will never gain any quality*. It will always lose quality, noticable or not. In order to reduce the filesize of something you must transcode.

Changing the container (or file) format (eg xvid -> mp4) without transcoding will leave the quality intact. Nothing's effectively changed.

You're doing both transcoding AND changing the container format.

You will never gain quality from a shitty video through any encoding means.

Your only options are to download a high quality mp4 Naruto episode for your ipod, or change a non-mp4 file.

Without going into codec efficiencies, the general rule is this: Quality = File Size.

The relationship is one of diminishing returns. Quality difference isn't as noticable between a 700MB encode and a 600MB encode of Naruto, as it would be between a 50MB and 150MB episode of Naruto. At the lower levels you're working with, a small increase in file size can gain quite a bit in quality.

* = Quality here is defined as picture quality, since it can also mean some other things.






Summary

- you can not make a shitty episode look better.
-You need to select H264 in your converter software to give a better quality-per-MB result
-Change a setting to enable Variable Bit Rate instead of a Constant Bit Rate number to give better quality-per-MB
-Once Variable Bit Rate is enabled (your software may know this as locking the "quality" vs "file size"), select a quantisation number that reflects your desired result.
-Do not change the output resolution. Doing so WILL reduce quality noticably when viewed on your PC.


I've never used xilisoft HD converter before. What I have used, is Ripbot264. It's a very easy to use, quick and effective auto-batch converter that does what you're after. It's even free.

The catch is that it's incompatible with CCCP and perhaps other codec packs.

The workaround is simple: uninstall cccp, perform your encodes, re-install cccp.

[NaRuTo001]

hello thanks so much for replying again yes I'm sorry about the whole quality thing It does seem unclear now that you mention it (picture quality) this is some really useful information and I thank you for your time for answering+quickness I really like this forum everyone is so friendly and helpful anyhow I will look into it tomorrow though as I am a student and have to get up early for college tomorrow hopefully get back to you soon cheers!

[NaRuTo001]

Hi again um are saying that I should be doing something like this?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=47693
I don't really understand what you are saying what's a variable bit rate
I just want to convert naruto episodes to mp4 without losing subtitle quality
And also picture quality I'm a little confused at the moment?

[Buffalobiian]

Hi again um are saying that I should be doing something like this?
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=47693
I don't really understand what you are saying what's a variable bit rate
I just want to convert naruto episodes to mp4 without losing subtitle quality
And also picture quality I'm a little confused at the moment?

I guess you could do that... Doesn't have to be that complicated though. A lot of auto-encoders work fine.

If the subtitles are hardsubbed, as it is with older naruto episodes, the quality of the subtitles corresponds with the picture quality since it's printed onto the picture itself.

As for Variable Bit Rate, you'll see the setting if your program supports it. Basically instead of setting a constant bit rate (4000KB/s, for example), it changes it on the fly. It's a way to save space without losing quality.

[NaRuTo001]

Ok So if I dont follow through with that tutorial would you be able to send or guide me through with a tutorial on how to do it with that program you mentioned earlier? :)

[Buffalobiian]

Ok So if I dont follow through with that tutorial would you be able to send or guide me through with a tutorial on how to do it with that program you mentioned earlier? :)

I can try, since it's pretty simple. Not sure how much of a "tutorial" it will be.

I guess we'll need to clarify as well - what's the screen resolution of the ipod, and how well does it handle video above the set resolution? Not sure how powerful those little guys are these days.

[NaRuTo001]

haha your so kind um it's an Ipod Touch 8gb so the resolution is like 320x480 not to sure what you mean by "video above the set resolution"? sorry is it possible to have it available to both laptop and ipod with good subtitle quality as you see i have a capacity on file size for my ipod if an aone file is like 180mb times that by 6 which is like jst over 1gb (1080mb to be precise lol) that's only six episode on my ipod and also Ive got alot of other things like music and apps and such.... where as if I watch it nice and big on my computer in my favorite/preferred format(mp4) that would be nice as-well anyway am I making any sense?????

[Buffalobiian]

the resolution is like 320x480 not to sure what you mean by "video above the set resolution

By video above the set resolution, I mean videos that are larger than 320x480, and how well such a video will play on the ipod without lag. You won't really know unless you've tried it though.

[NaRuTo001]

By video above the set resolution, I mean videos that are larger than 320x480, and how well such a video will play on the ipod without lag. You won't really know unless you've tried it though.

sorry yes I don't really know and haven't tried sorry.

[NaRuTo001]

Ok I'm trying to figure this out myself a little without having to constantly nag you to show me the way.so I did a test using a different converter program on my laptop it's called any video converter pretty decent although on my laptop it takes quite awhile converting depending on file size. So tried converting an Anbu Aone file "Naruto episode 106".avi format and 175megabytes in size tried converting it to mp4 format you may be able to see a few of the details on the right hand side of the image:
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I have changed the variable bitrate to 4000 and changed the frame size to original.again after a long wait of conversion process I get the video in mp4 and for once the quality seems alright It's nice and big and easy to read subtitles.here's the catch the new file size is f**k'n 635.64 megabytes.

[Buffalobiian]

I have changed the variable bitrate to 4000 and changed the frame size to original.again after a long wait of conversion process I get the video in mp4 and for once the quality seems alright It's nice and big and easy to read subtitles.here's the catch the new file size is f**k'n 635.64 megabytes.


Hahahaha.. sorry.. couldn't help myself there. I used 4000 as an example to explain bitrates. If you're after small file standard definition content (which you are), 4000 isn't the setting you'll use. That's what THORA uses for their 720p videos. xD (ie, very high quality at absurd file sizes).

Here's a little explanation on bitrate.

The bitrate (bits per second) describes the amount of data per second the video file is going to be played at. The higher bits that are played per second, the better quality image you will get. Naturally, the higher bits per second you decide to encode the video at, the more bits it will require in total - and hence a larger file size.

A video set at a constant bitrate will allow you to choose the rate at which the video will use for the entire video. Since that bit rate is constant, a Constant Bit Rate also lets you control the file size. (bits/sec x length of video).

The catch is, a video's image is dynamic. A pitch-black image will require very few bits to look acceptable, whereas a fight scene with lots of action and movement would require much more information to be adequately portrayed.

That's where variable bit rates come in. If your program allows VBR, it will first analyse the video. Then, it'll encode it with your preferred quality setting. VBR varies the bit-rate on demand. It'll save you bits (and hence save storage space) for frames that don't require lots of information. At the same time it will increase the bit-rate for demanding scenes so the image still looks good. Use this if you can.


I've used Any Video Converter before. It's also a nice simple program. It didn't really work out for me because the frame-rate conversion made the resultant videos look choppy (and I don't think it let me change it to the right value neither), so I stopped using it. At one point it was my youtube downloader.

Summary Version: 4000 bits per second is too high. Use 800 for starters to see the results. If you think it looks like crap, bump it up. If you want to try your luck and squeeze the file smaller, go lower. Each increment of 100 will result in a 15-20MB file size difference of a 23min video.

[NaRuTo001]

ok I think I may have come up with a solution yay.take a look at this image:
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the one player in the left shows the massive 635mb one where as the one on the right is only 148mb not to bad in difference I can handle this quality(converting process takes so long) so It seems as though my inquiries have come to an end thanks so much for the help.
Summery
- I can tolerate it at this standard it's dropped from the original avi file size of 175mb to 148mb
- not to bigger difference in picture quality
-glad that it's in my fav format and that it's always available to sync to my ipod.
-solved problems

I have to say I thank you for you time in putting up with my nonsense and for teaching about (VBR) I can finally change the image quality to = a guesstimated file size.thanks for all the help you really are a good kind person :) !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buffalobiian]

No problem. Glad you found a solution.