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Marik
Wed, 10-19-2011, 10:59 AM
[MangaStream & Binktopia] One Piece c.643: MediaFire (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?cfj94e5tp0hah61) | MultiUpload (http://www.multiupload.com/JI5CUEPTEK) | Online Viewing (http://mangastream.com/read/one_piece/88730115/1)

Carnage
Wed, 10-19-2011, 11:52 AM
I like how Oda plainly laid out why this arc isnt exciting at all.

UChessmaster
Wed, 10-19-2011, 12:13 PM
What`s so unexciting about it?

Assertn
Wed, 10-19-2011, 01:41 PM
Brooke's definitely a bit cooler now, but kinda strange that the longarm tribe would give him such a fancy new cane sword

Archangel
Wed, 10-19-2011, 03:46 PM
Brooke's definitely a bit cooler now, but kinda strange that the longarm tribe would give him such a fancy new cane sword
Maybe they got it from a groupie.


What`s so unexciting about it?

It's a little unexciting because we know these guys don't stand a chance between the Straw Hats

toonice714
Wed, 10-19-2011, 07:39 PM
So....hodi is just a racist who is unfounded. Surprise...?
Well at least we know that brooke is immortal until something can cut/shoot/destroy a soul. The only way anyone could beat him is by drowning him at this point since his shadow is there permanently. He by far has eaten one of the best fruits for a human. If zoro had that fruit he would be the best hands down. he could die and still retain his sword skill and continue living as what would essentially be a zombie. Awesome fruit its awesome. It would suck if usopp had it b/c then he would die and still be...well...usopp. I mean usopp is good but if someone who you really didn't want coming back as an opponent had that fruit like Raleigh or Roger it would be over.

RyougaZell
Wed, 10-19-2011, 11:51 PM
Robin's new extension of her powers are cool. Can't beleive no one mentioned it.

Assertn
Thu, 10-20-2011, 02:10 AM
So....hodi is just a racist who is unfounded. Surprise...?
Well at least we know that brooke is immortal until something can cut/shoot/destroy a soul. The only way anyone could beat him is by drowning him at this point since his shadow is there permanently. He by far has eaten one of the best fruits for a human. If zoro had that fruit he would be the best hands down. he could die and still retain his sword skill and continue living as what would essentially be a zombie. Awesome fruit its awesome. It would suck if usopp had it b/c then he would die and still be...well...usopp. I mean usopp is good but if someone who you really didn't want coming back as an opponent had that fruit like Raleigh or Roger it would be over.

I don't think he's immortal so much as that he's only vulnerable to attacks that directly damage his bones. He said something along the lines of being immortal to that fishman guy because the nature of that guy's attacks doesn't inflict the proper damage.

Archangel
Thu, 10-20-2011, 08:51 AM
Robin's new extension of her powers are cool. Can't beleive no one mentioned it.
We'd already seen full body fleur, the giant leg attack was way more impressive.

UChessmaster
Thu, 10-20-2011, 05:51 PM
It's a little unexciting because we know these guys don't stand a chance between the Straw Hats

A lot of old arcs didn`t had worthy enemies but still end up as good arcs, Kuro, Don Krieg, Arlong, Wapol and even Enel to a point.

Carnage
Thu, 10-20-2011, 08:19 PM
A lot of old arcs didn`t had worthy enemies but still end up as good arcs, Kuro, Don Krieg, Arlong, Wapol and even Enel to a point.

What? The strawhats struggled through each and every one of those battles...(except Wapol)

UChessmaster
Thu, 10-20-2011, 08:39 PM
Uhmmm no they didn`t, he went serious on Kuro and he was down the next second, Don Krieg was an oportunistic guy that took advantage of being surrounded by water and his armor, again, luffy went serious = Arlong is down, Enel`s electric attack were 100% useless on Luffy and considering he never really bothered with anything since his fruit was so overpowered, he went down quickly, Enel`s strongest attack? failed miserably.

They were still overall good arcs, i`m just saying the bad guys being the underdog doesn`t makes it unexciting, this is nothing new.

Splash!
Fri, 10-21-2011, 12:03 PM
Uhmmm no they didn`t, he went serious on Kuro and he was down the next second, Don Krieg was an oportunistic guy that took advantage of being surrounded by water and his armor, again, luffy went serious = Arlong is down, Enel`s electric attack were 100% useless on Luffy and considering he never really bothered with anything since his fruit was so overpowered, he went down quickly, Enel`s strongest attack? failed miserably.

They were still overall good arcs, i`m just saying the bad guys being the underdog doesn`t makes it unexciting, this is nothing new.

Luffy was pretty exhausted/injured after each of those fights, meaning he gave it his all.

Apart from those guys, Luffy has been utterly defeated at least once by each of the serious opponents he has fought (with the exception of Moria).

So all of Luffy's important fights have been against people who were close to his level or ones that far exceeded it initially. There really haven't been opponents as worthless as the new fishmen pirates to have an entire arc dedicated to them. If Jimbei had seen through their plan, he could have dealt with them single handedly.

UChessmaster
Fri, 10-21-2011, 12:08 PM
No, he was truly exhausted when fighting Crocodile, he slept like a week?, CP9 (Couldn`t move an inch) and Moria, the other guys, he took a small break and went on with his life, except for maybe Krieg, but that was more of a pride thing that he decided to take all those hits on purpose to break the spear.

Splash!
Fri, 10-21-2011, 12:23 PM
No, he was truly exhausted when fighting Crocodile, he slept like a week?

It's clear that Luffy had been progressing with each fight. Even with Crocodile, after being completely outclassed once, he was able to beat him the next time. Just because Crocodile was the hardest opponent he had faced up to that point doesn't mean that all his other fights weren't pushing him to the limit. It's just that his limit kept on increasing with every fight.

UChessmaster
Fri, 10-21-2011, 12:27 PM
Ok, let me rephrase it again.

When he fought Kuro he took a 5 seconds break, when he fought Crocodile he slept for weeks.

How can you say he was at his max fighting Kuro? if he really got leaps and bounds stronger, why didn`t he just rest for 5 seconds after defeating Croc? He`s not a Saiyan guys.

Maybe you should watch the Kuro fight again, Luffy just hit him twice and the fight was over :/

Splash!
Fri, 10-21-2011, 12:41 PM
Ok, let me rephrase it again.
How can you say he was at his max fighting Kuro? if he really got leaps and bounds stronger, why didn`t he just rest for 5 seconds after defeating Croc? He`s not a Saiyan guys.

Just because Luffy got more injured in one fight vs another doesn't mean he didn't try hard in both. It just means his opponent was that much more damn difficult and fought back alot more. It says more about the opponent.

Edit: It just doesn't make sense to use an opponent Luffy fought later in the series to say that all his fights before then had been easy. By that logic, Luffy has never really been pushed to limit at all since the series began, because who knows what kind of crazy strong opponents he will overcome in the future. Also, Kuro was beaten RELATIVELY easily, in hindsight, compared to Arlong or Don Krieg.

Assertn
Fri, 10-21-2011, 12:59 PM
If there was anything gained from the east blue battles, it was mental conditioning for the real adventure that started once they hit the grand line. In terms of pure fighting ability, everyone was capable of beating their counterparts without the need to train or learn new skills.

Splash!
Fri, 10-21-2011, 01:26 PM
If there was anything gained from the east blue battles, it was mental conditioning for the real adventure that started once they hit the grand line. In terms of pure fighting ability, everyone was capable of beating their counterparts without the need to train or learn new skills.

I agree. But mental conditioning or gaining experience is all part of getting better. You could say that after a few fights, Luffy could go back and fight one of the earlier opponents and take even less damage because he would fight smarter. In fact, isn't that exactly what happened with Crocodile Round 2. You could say Luffy was always capable of beating Crocodile, its just that the experience he gained from Round 1 helped him perform better in Round 2.

LobsterMagnet
Sun, 10-23-2011, 11:12 AM
Yeah but all the east blue fights were weak sauce. Villain came in, luffy came defeated major villain and the other strawhats dealt with the lackies. Luffy usually would beat the villain in two to three chapters of content and they would be forgotten. The better more serious threats would defeat luffy or leave him in near death and usually he'd have to
fight within an inch of his life to gain an edge.

New Fishman Pirates could easily be defeated by the pre-enies lobby straw hats without batting an eye. They are weak sauce and I wish oda would just finish this arc so we can finally move on to more interesting stuff in the new
world.

UChessmaster
Sun, 10-23-2011, 12:17 PM
You proved my point really, old villians were weak sauce, this villians are weak sauce, what`s new and why are we dissapointed?

Splash!
Sun, 10-23-2011, 07:43 PM
You proved my point really, old villians were weak sauce, this villians are weak sauce, what`s new and why are we dissapointed?

Because when Luffy fought those villains, the viewers had no idea how far he could push himself. So those fights didn't seem so easy at the time. But over here, we are fully aware of how weak the new fishmen pirates really are compared to the strawhats. Imagine a significantly long arc with Bellamy the hyena as the main villain.

Assertn
Sun, 10-23-2011, 07:46 PM
I kinda thought the pre-grandline arcs were a bit bland and repetitive.

UChessmaster
Sun, 10-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Because when Luffy fought those villains, the viewers had no idea how far he could push himself. So those fights didn't seem so easy at the time. But over here, we are fully aware of how weak the new fishmen pirates really are compared to the strawhats. Imagine a significantly long arc with Bellamy the hyena as the main villain.

Yeah, it`s called Skypea.


I kinda thought the pre-grandline arcs were a bit bland and repetitive.

I totally hated the series until Arlong. The part where Nami stabs herself? too sad.

Splash!
Sun, 10-23-2011, 10:26 PM
Yeah, it`s called Skypea.

In spite of Luffy lucking out with his DF abilities, Enel posed a far more serious threat to the strawhats in general than either Bellamy or these New Fishmen pirates. I don't understand the comparison...

UChessmaster
Mon, 10-24-2011, 06:49 AM
Enel, the guy that was hyped as the ultimate enemy for god knows how many chapters only did one succesfull attack on Luffy, ONE.

Anyway, how about we look at this as if it were an RPG game, did the past enemies gave Luffy experience? sure, did he leveled up? absolutelly, did they dropped Luffy`s HP to dangerously low levels? NO, how do i know? the rest time, this is a point you just can`t ignore, answer me this, a simple yes or no will suffice, do you REALLY think Arlong pushed Luffy as much as Crocodile did?

Splash!
Mon, 10-24-2011, 12:24 PM
Enel, the guy that was hyped as the ultimate enemy for god knows how many chapters only did one succesfull attack on Luffy, ONE.

Anyway, how about we look at this as if it were an RPG game, did the past enemies gave Luffy experience? sure, did he leveled up? absolutelly, did they dropped Luffy`s HP to dangerously low levels? NO, how do i know? the rest time, this is a point you just can`t ignore, answer me this, a simple yes or no will suffice, do you REALLY think Arlong pushed Luffy as much as Crocodile did?

Luffy's win was purely circumstantial. Not a real indicator of the threat level that Enel actually posed. Need I remind you of the damage he did to the rest of the strawhats including Zoro. Even with his handicap, he had all the tools to beat Luffy (lightning speed, mantra, a heated trident). He was just too arrogant and shocked by the fact that anyone could stand up to the power of GOD. Hardly a Bellamy...

I just don't think you would call Arlong weaksauce if he was the strongest enemy you had observed in the series upto that point, especially since he was able to overpower Sanji and Zoro. Definitely seemed like an enemy worthy of the captain at the time. Bellamy and the New Fishmen pirates fall into a category of enemies that the reader is already aware of as being weak (compared to the strawhats) before going into the fight. That's my main point.


Lastly, you seem to think that a strength of a villain is directly proportional to amount of the damage that Luffy receives in a direct fight. I don't agree with this at all. It has alot to do with circumstances, like with Enel. Either ways, I am not arguing the fact that Crocodile was more dangerous than Arlong. But the amount of damage Luffy took in his fight governed by the time it took for him to figure out a weakness in Crocodile's logia power. Had he figured it out sooner, he would have probably taken less damage. Had he not figured it out at all, he would probably be dead. I would think of Smoker as having strength comparable to Crocodile, yet pre-timeskip Luffy would be defeated by him over and again until he could find a way to effectively counter his logia powers.

UChessmaster
Mon, 10-24-2011, 02:19 PM
I just don't think you would call Arlong weaksauce if he was the strongest enemy you had observed in the series upto that point, especially since he was able to overpower Sanji and Zoro. Definitely seemed like an enemy worthy of the captain at the time. Bellamy and the New Fishmen pirates fall into a category of enemies that the reader is already aware of as being weak (compared to the strawhats) before going into the fight. That's my main point.

Arlong only overpowered Sanji, remember, Zoro was deeply wonded and when Arlong realized this he was scared shitless of him.

If that`s your point then don`t you consider it a bit refreshing that the enemy is the underdog and not the other way around this time? certainly fits with the concept of just how strong the straw hats have gotten in this 2 year period.

toonice714
Mon, 10-24-2011, 08:41 PM
Gentlemen, if one thing is certain about this manga its that continuity does not exist in fights here. That's what gives One piece its flare in the sense that all of the fights have variables. Things are circumstantial and somethings aren't. True the villans early on may not have seemed impressive to say luffy but they might crush someone else or be able to hold their ground. Not the best example but Mr.3 got wrecked by luffy right? Well he was really helpful in the fight against Magellan in impel down. Wiper was strong and got beat up but later on in the same arc he proved to have the same kind of versatility as Zoro when he used the reject dial a bunch of times. The great thing about one piece is that there are no power levels, making reappearances of other characters interesting to the main plot. Buggy has been around since shanks and him were on the freakin pirate king's ship and he is STILL a weakling. One piece characters just boast their usefulness to the story and fights in a variation of ways. Sanji isnt the strongest SH on the team but he always has a strange way of being in the right place at the right time and with really useful knowledge(didnt he read the whole book on the devil fruits?). All in all you both have solid points, you guys are just both right.

UChessmaster
Tue, 10-25-2011, 07:51 AM
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/UChess88/useparagraphs.png

Splash!
Tue, 10-25-2011, 10:23 AM
One person I really want Luffy to fight very soon is Smoker. It would be a good indicator of his progress.

rockmanj
Tue, 10-25-2011, 12:19 PM
Has smoker been promoted? I think I remember him getting a promotion at one point to Commodore, but I am not sure if he has gone past that.

Marik
Tue, 10-25-2011, 12:25 PM
Nah, he's still a Commodore.

Archangel
Tue, 10-25-2011, 02:53 PM
Nah, he's still a Commodore.
How do you know? He might have been promoted during the time skip.