Naruto Chapter 560

[Marik]

[/URL][MangaStream & Binktopia] Naruto c.560: [url=http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?sqy7kv1cysbno7s]MediaFire (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/73851290/1) | MultiUpload (http://www.multiupload.com/38SR44MRES) | Online Viewing (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/73851290/1)

[NeoCybercoin]

Well...that was kinda lame.

[darkshadow]

So.....what?
I feel so sorry for byakugan, though on another note this just makes shodai that much more beastly seeing how he wrecked Madara's shit.

[NeoCybercoin]

So now I am pretty sure that eventually Sasuke's EMS will evolve into the Rinnegan or already has. Lame.

[Archangel]

Remember when this show was about ninjas? Me neither.

Also, why couldn't Nagato use susanno? Is it because he was born with the rinnegan? Reminds me of that one pikachu that evolved to raichu too soon and didn't learn quick attack and agility

[SilentSnake]

Remember when this show was about ninjas? Me neither.

Also, why couldn't Nagato use susanno? Is it because he was born with the rinnegan? Reminds me of that one pikachu that evolved to raichu too soon and didn't learn quick attack and agility

It could be also that Tobi has given Nagato the rinnegan like he said.

It's still unclear what he meant by that since if rinnegan is an evolved sharingan then Nagato should have awakened sharingan first just like sasuke. Seems to me that Sasuke's trauma was bigger than Nagato's so Nagato jumping through sharingan phase directly to rinnegan by normal ways seems absurd.

[darkshadow]

It's not an evolved sharingan, sharingan is derived from rinnegan; you could say what happened here is sharingan going back to it's 'original' form.

[MFauli]

lol is all I want to say about this chapter.

but still, i dont get it: why is naruto "out of chakra" to transform into kyuubi-mode? doesn´t the kyuubi have infinite chakra, and shouldn´t that thus let naruto use that mode as long as he likes to?

anyways, lol.

[darkshadow]

Have you been reading a different manga than everyone else? The kyuubi cloak mode is dangerous, Naruto uses the kyuubi chakra yes, but the kyuubi in turn is draining Naruto's own. When that chakra runs out naruto will simply die. Every clone he makes thus also massively drains how much chakra he can spare.

[Tofu #2]

So the sharingan evolved from the rinnegan, and the rinngan can be awakened from the sharingan, and then nagato, a uzumaki, has the rinnegan, you would assume he could have had the sharingan, making him a uchiha.

Anyways I think tobi is really hashirama

[MFauli]

Then what is Naruto´s plan for when he´ll be facing Sasuke? Or is he working under the assumption that a)Sasuke won´t be part of the war, or b) Sasuke won´t fight him because he´ll realize what friends they are, lol.

Sadly, we all know that neither is the case and Naruto will have magically just enough chakra for when Sasuke appears to fight him...

[darkshadow]

Magically? Naruto has been using TONS of chakra splitting himself up like that and laying the smackdown on all different areas of the war; it's completely reasonable he ran out when he did.

[MFauli]

That´s not what I pre-emptively complained about. Read again :P

[DB_Hunter]

The manga just got a wee bit shitter.

[bagandscalpel]

Madara's pretty cool, being able to use Meteor-no-jutsu like that. Only the true villain is allowed to have powers that strong.

Naruto's only hope now is to do a mass-summoning of Knights-of-the-Round to quickly take him down, or otherwise mass-cast Holy-no-jutsu to dispel the Meteor.

These wizard battles be dope!

[darkshadow]

That´s not what I pre-emptively complained about. Read again :P

You complained about how naruto will "magically" have enough energy to fight 1 person solely based on the fact that he ran out of energy now...where he has been straining himself to the max and accelerating the drain by making clones. Right now he's in sage mode and not using his own (well a bit of it I guess) or kyuubi's chakra, meaning naruto is basically resting while using mostly nature energy.
Doesn't seem that odd for enough chakra to replenish itself before facing sasuke or anyone else. Also naruto still has that Sage + kyuubi mode that was only shown briefly during his fight with Pein.

[Assertn]

Someone should just call avada kadavra and be done with it.

[Archangel]

DS is going full narutard again! :D

/grabs popcorns

[Shuichi_Utazu]

I just wish they would say exactly who tobi already, cuz all this speculation just makes me wanna really know. And i already figure if naruto is gonna beat madara, who has the rinnegan and already knew the full extent of his ems, how is sasuke gonna compare? I realize they will make some weird reason for y sasuke is even more powerful or somethin, but still it seems farfetched

[Y]

Well, since Madara appeared to refer to him as a different person, that puts to rest the theories that it is some kind of weird ghost-Madara. It's gotta be his brother, then. No one else would have had such a freaky reaction to Madara's dead corpse when Kabuto showed it to him.

[NeoCybercoin]

The masked dude could just as easily be the son of the Sage of Six Paths.The one who inherited the body instead of the eyes. Right now we don't know anything bout that. Say whatever happened to those ninja warrior pills that allows someone to fight for 3 days straight? Guess those are for the 'normal' ninja's. Too bad all of the characters aren't 'normal'

[DB_Hunter]

Is the dialogue between Kabuto and Madara implying that Madara knew Orochimaru?

[Uchiha Barles]

Naw, it seems that Madara knows "Him", as in, the guy Kabutoro is working for:

1021

[toonice714]

Is the dialogue between Kabuto and Madara implying that Madara knew Orochimaru?
Maybe he was in the 3rd coffin when he fought the third? This time he was like fuck it I'm getting out! Makes sense seein as how the 4th couldn't have been in that coffin

[RyougaZell]

I remember when the Sharingan was supposedely a derivation of the Byakugan. Retcon FTW!

[Naruto_RNG]

I'm not gonna even bother talking about another upgrade to sharingan.

However I would like to see naruto performing tail beast bomb now. I know his current clone can't even get into the form let alone perform the technique but I think right now is the best time for it to shine. Perfect wtf moment lol. Hopefully the real naruto is on the way due to madara destroying his other two clones with susano therefore informing him of what is goin on.

[MFauli]

You complained about how naruto will "magically" have enough energy to fight 1 person solely based on the fact that he ran out of energy now...where he has been straining himself to the max and accelerating the drain by making clones. Right now he's in sage mode and not using his own (well a bit of it I guess) or kyuubi's chakra, meaning naruto is basically resting while using mostly nature energy.
Doesn't seem that odd for enough chakra to replenish itself before facing sasuke or anyone else. Also naruto still has that Sage + kyuubi mode that was only shown briefly during his fight with Pein.

Naruto said he´s out of chakra. I´d say it´s only fair to assume that he´s talking about his own chakra there. Why would nature´s or the kyuubi´s chakra be out? lol. And Naruto might be a chakra-heavy ninja, but regenerating all his chakra for his, likely, hardest battle is just bs. Which is not to say that it doesn´t happen, sigh.


Hopefully the real naruto is on the way due to madara destroying his other two clones with susano therefore informing him of what is goin on.

I wonder if Kishimoto remembers the whole "Naruto learns by having his clones experience stuff", and thus learn about Susanoo and its dangers.

Also, on "who is behind the mask": I´d say it´s Sakura´s father, who turns out to be Madara´s son. There you go.

[darkshadow]

When did I say nature or kyuubi was out? I said he ran out of his own and is using nature atm since he's in sage mode.

[Mazzgaat]

I think naruto has a kekkei genkai also since Nagato's an 'Uzumaki' He would probally use this power to beat sasuke or even madara but that jutsu madara uses at the end is that like the one nagato used? or is it like a big Amaterasu? Also madara says 'This is his doing' refering to Orichimaru which means madara had a link with Orichimaru does anyone know what it may be or how they know each other?

[DB_Hunter]

Actually it would be quite something that whilst all this is going on Itachi find Kabuto, takes control of him using his Sharingan and thus has indirect control over Madara and the other resurrected fighters.

Also, I think it was a really good move what the Tsuchikage did with Gaara's sand and allowing it to permeate Susanoo. Now we know there is a way in through the defense of the ethereal warrior, the only counter to this would be attack first or use what Itachi has, namely Yata's mirror.

[viperwasp]

First of all I am new here. My favorite forums to post at Bleach network died a while ago. So hopefully this community is active enough for me to like it.

I first want to mention that I hope sharingan does not evolve into the rinnegan... well I know they kind of said that but I hope the charachters don't know what they are talking about or are just assuming and are wrong. Unless DNA or genes from the first or senju DNA is needed or something then I would be fine with that idea. Because I think Madara or Tobi or both of them have the firsts DNA to some degree.

Since I have not gotten the time to read any posts here outside of this thread I want to mention something that I picked up. From last chapter it seems that Madara knew he was going to die etc. It was a plan and he was expecting nagato to bring him back with the rinnegan most likely. Make since that way even Tobi himself was upset when Nagato used it to bring back the dead ninja of konoha. This mainly confused me and my friend because how could the revived Madara who was just brought back know who Nagato was? Madara looked like he was fairly young when he died. Definitely to young to even know Nagato as an infant even. But this chapter we learned that Kabuto used a more advanced version of the Impure world resurrection on Madara thus it could explain why he looks younger? That point aside though it is interesting that Madara knew he was going to be revived before he even died? What is the plan? or was really being revived by Kabuto instead messed things up a little bit probably.

SECOND!

That meteor attack... First of all OMG. Second of all theres not to many things that exist in the naruto world that could stop that? I read the post in this thread about naruto tailed beast bomb.... Well that may work but naruto cannot use that Jutsu and hes out of chakra. On top of that even the beast bomb might be too weak.

Also were did it come from? It's some type of summoning right? And probably Earth/Fire Elemental but with the Rinnigan and being Madara I bet were past the point of trying to figure out what elemental type it is. But as far as we know besides a summoning were does something like that come from. Earth element jutsu normally forms on the body or comes from the earth. Even the one sage of the six paths ability that grabs earth and other objects and form it into a ball does not form something that quickly and they would have noticed it. And like me and my friend speculated about it perhaps being from the moon maybe the Jubi's body is inside or something? Even that is likely it came to quickly and no one noticed until it was right in the sky! So that basically means it's some type of summoning or a genjutsu. Which if it is a genjutsu is could be some new special type of genjutsu. Maybe one that can cause mental damaged based off of the genjutsu like Tsukuyomi but more advanced? I feel like there is a large chance it's some type of genjutsu.

Mainly because the only two people I can think of who could stop it etc... Would be Tobi... Maybe he could arrive with his giant rock golem or what ever it is... The other person is itachi... I don't even think sasuke could stop it.

If it is a real physical meteor then perhaps it has something to do with Isunag. Isunag all about making something out of nothing... or taking something that did happen and making it not happen. I remember to a small degree that Isunag or some form of it could have been used to create the Ninja world itself. Like ninjutsu etc... Could all have been born from Isunag or something close to it. This whole thing is probably going to be solved more simply then we think or at least I think. But my vote is genjutsu. That or Madara is only using or calling the Meteor for an other reason not to use it as a direct attack.

[Edort4]

The man with a thousand eyes.

Amazing involutioning evolution, susanoo outlet, meteor invocations, Madara having Orochimaru an all the gang on facebook. Millenial researches conducted by a 20 years old boy who spent all his youth orpahned in konoha and the rest of his life "spying" and his master that spent for all we know half of his life wandering to make himself a name and the other half postrated in bed carving for a body. Just to name a few.

After years of reading Im not gonna quit, I gues.

And yes this is all Izanagis doing and Neo is gonna arrive soon.

[toonice714]

First of all I am new here. My favorite forums to post at Bleach network died a while ago. So hopefully this community is active enough for me to like it.

I first want to mention that I hope sharingan does not evolve into the rinnegan... well I know they kind of said that but I hope the charachters don't know what they are talking about or are just assuming and are wrong. Unless DNA or genes from the first or senju DNA is needed or something then I would be fine with that idea. Because I think Madara or Tobi or both of them have the firsts DNA to some degree.

Since I have not gotten the time to read any posts here outside of this thread I want to mention something that I picked up. From last chapter it seems that Madara knew he was going to die etc. It was a plan and he was expecting nagato to bring him back with the rinnegan most likely. Make since that way even Tobi himself was upset when Nagato used it to bring back the dead ninja of konoha. This mainly confused me and my friend because how could the revived Madara who was just brought back know who Nagato was? Madara looked like he was fairly young when he died. Definitely to young to even know Nagato as an infant even. But this chapter we learned that Kabuto used a more advanced version of the Impure world resurrection on Madara thus it could explain why he looks younger? That point aside though it is interesting that Madara knew he was going to be revived before he even died? What is the plan? or was really being revived by Kabuto instead messed things up a little bit probably.

SECOND!

That meteor attack... First of all OMG. Second of all theres not to many things that exist in the naruto world that could stop that? I read the post in this thread about naruto tailed beast bomb.... Well that may work but naruto cannot use that Jutsu and hes out of chakra. On top of that even the beast bomb might be too weak.

Also were did it come from? It's some type of summoning right? And probably Earth/Fire Elemental but with the Rinnigan and being Madara I bet were past the point of trying to figure out what elemental type it is. But as far as we know besides a summoning were does something like that come from. Earth element jutsu normally forms on the body or comes from the earth. Even the one sage of the six paths ability that grabs earth and other objects and form it into a ball does not form something that quickly and they would have noticed it. And like me and my friend speculated about it perhaps being from the moon maybe the Jubi's body is inside or something? Even that is likely it came to quickly and no one noticed until it was right in the sky! So that basically means it's some type of summoning or a genjutsu. Which if it is a genjutsu is could be some new special type of genjutsu. Maybe one that can cause mental damaged based off of the genjutsu like Tsukuyomi but more advanced? I feel like there is a large chance it's some type of genjutsu.

Mainly because the only two people I can think of who could stop it etc... Would be Tobi... Maybe he could arrive with his giant rock golem or what ever it is... The other person is itachi... I don't even think sasuke could stop it.

If it is a real physical meteor then perhaps it has something to do with Isunag. Isunag all about making something out of nothing... or taking something that did happen and making it not happen. I remember to a small degree that Isunag or some form of it could have been used to create the Ninja world itself. Like ninjutsu etc... Could all have been born from Isunag or something close to it. This whole thing is probably going to be solved more simply then we think or at least I think. But my vote is genjutsu. That or Madara is only using or calling the Meteor for an other reason not to use it as a direct attack.
Ok half of these speculations are wild and unfounded but its ok b/c you came from a bleach forum. J/k but from what goes on in manga in general its best to just take what the characters say at face value seeing as how that's the only way yoju obtain information in their universe. Secondly the techniques madara is throwing out right now are just on a large scale to show why he is feared and to show the "power of the uchiha" founder. the only information we have gained from his appearance is that he: has no knowledge of kabuto, he obtained the next level of sharingan before his passing(the rinnengan), and that he is in fact aware of the current war and edo tensei.
As to who it might be controlling edo tensei we don't know but so far the only confirmed users of the technique are: the second leaf hokage, orochimaru and kabuto(kabutoro etc...). My guess is that the big bad villian might emerge from the leaf village. There are so many plots that are so much darker than it first revealed. In the beginning of the series the picture was painted to show other villages as monsters but lately the leaf is lookin kinda dirty right now.

[Shuichi_Utazu]

Also, on "who is behind the mask": I´d say it´s Sakura´s father, who turns out to be Madara´s son. There you go.

How the hell does that make any sense. I have heard some farfetched ideas but that takes the cake

[toonice714]

How the hell does that make any sense. I have heard some farfetched ideas but that takes the cake
Sarcasm. ^this guy gets it

[Naruto_RNG]

I must admit I kinda agree with viperwasp when it comes to Madara's meteor being a genjutsu. He pretty much looked at everyone while flashing by them after his katon jutsu and what's more is everyone is looking at him now. As said by Guy when fighting a sharingan user look at their feet not eyes. Itachi can do split sec genjutsu and I'm pretty sure Madara can do the same if not better then him when it comes to that. Hell Sharingan was held as master genjutsu kekkai before the ret-con. I wouldn't be shocked if this is a mass hallucination everyone is experiencing. Oh well got to wait and see I guess. I just hope this manga finishes with what little ounce of dignity it has left.

[Tofu #2]

Maybe he was in the 3rd coffin when he fought the third? This time he was like fuck it I'm getting out! Makes sense seein as how the 4th couldn't have been in that coffin

kabuto has already confirmed orochimaru attempted to summon the 4th that time

[DB_Hunter]

Generally speaking, Oro's Edo Tensei must have been really crap that it brought back Hashirama and old man Sandaime managaed to take him AND the Second out at the same time

[Archangel]

Or maybe that's just how beastly the third really was.

[DB_Hunter]

Sasuke > Oro > Old 3rd > Hashirama (who is => Madara) + 2nd ?

[Archangel]

That's a shit list, Oro didn't have his Hokage duo with him when he fought Sasuke. Oh, and he was half dead.

Not that i'm contesting that power levels are fucked up, i'm just sayin that particular list you came up with sucks.

[DB_Hunter]

OK I agree armless Oro isn't the same as normal Oro but 3rd can't be greater than 1st two put together in his old age

[MFauli]

If anything, it´s impressive that armless-Orochimaru could fight Kyuubi-Naruto Lv. 4.

[darkshadow]

More like:
Young 3rd >>>>> God > Old 3rd with staff > 1st + 2nd + oro

[rockmanj]

They did call him like the "god of shinobi" or something didn't they? He was said to be the most powerful Hokage Konoha ever had in his prime and the most powerful of all of the 5 kages (http://www.mangareader.net/93-145-3/naruto/chapter-140.html)

[toonice714]

Sarutobi was the professor who knew every ninja technique in the village(knowledge of all the techs not the ability to wield them) the 4th was reputed to be the strongest ninja konoha ever produced. Even after the 4th passed the 3rd reclaimed his title as hokage which speaks volumes of how badass he already was. I mean there were plenty of promising ninja who were young and talented like the sannin.

[Uchiha Barles]

Generally speaking, Oro's Edo Tensei must have been really crap that it brought back Hashirama and old man Sandaime managaed to take him AND the Second out at the same time

Actually, Madara died, and we know he died for real because he was brought back by edo tensei. Actually, we really don't know jack shit but lets just go with that for a second. What that means, is that Madara likely did meet true death at the hands of the first in a duel to the death. Then the third kicked the first's ass and the second's at the same time. He did it as old geezer too. And Orochimaru was there at the time. Archie's got the right of it.

[Barumonk]

I must admit I kinda agree with viperwasp when it comes to Madara's meteor being a genjutsu.

^ This. Otherwise it's a combination of two time-space jutsu, something like summoning and a yellow flash/tobi teleport. That being said, the combo time-space jutsu is entirely more badass and would make up for the fact that fucking Madara needs the rinnegan to handle anyone in this fight, Naruto included.

[DB_Hunter]

Agreed. It does demean Madara's legend if he needs the Rinnegan now. He should be able to swat away all the fighters on the ground with no troubles, using the Sharingan without even activating MS/EMS.

I assume though Madara's Susanoo is two-faced as he has EMS i.e. his brother's Susanoo merged with his own?

Also, if we assume Tobi isn't Madara in any way, shape or form then I wonder how Madara will take the news of this weird masked guy being behind the massacre of his clan?

[Archangel]

^ This. Otherwise it's a combination of two time-space jutsu, something like summoning and a yellow flash/tobi teleport. That being said, the combo time-space jutsu is entirely more badass and would make up for the fact that fucking Madara needs the rinnegan to handle anyone in this fight, Naruto included.
Implying this whole clusterfuck hasn't been a genjutsu ever since the zombies showed up. Lol, did you guys actually believe Kishimoto was that bad a writer?

[Barumonk]

Implying this whole clusterfuck hasn't been a genjutsu ever since the zombies showed up. Lol, did you guys actually believe Kishimoto was that bad a writer?

Well, I did want to ask how Kabutoro had enough chakra for all this, but then I remembered that you're trolling because Kishimoto is indeed a terrible writer. Afterwards, I ate an apple.

[Y]

Also, has anyone noticed that Naruto has been seriously ownage for like 100 chapters? What the fuck? I'm the kind of bitter fan who thought the only great Naruto arc ever was Wave Country. And yet, somehow, the resolution of the Sasuke/Itachi plot and everything forward has been some seriously entertaining shit.

[Carnage]

Also, has anyone noticed that Naruto has been seriously ownage for like 100 chapters? What the fuck? I'm the kind of bitter fan who thought the only great Naruto arc ever was Wave Country. And yet, somehow, the resolution of the Sasuke/Itachi plot and everything forward has been some seriously entertaining shit.

2.5/10 you had me going for about 4 seconds.

[UChessmaster]

If anything, it´s impressive that armless-Orochimaru could fight Kyuubi-Naruto Lv. 4.

Especially if you consider that he wasn`t armless at all.

[viperwasp]

I must admit I kinda agree with viperwasp when it comes to Madara's meteor being a genjutsu. He pretty much looked at everyone while flashing by them after his katon jutsu and what's more is everyone is looking at him now. As said by Guy when fighting a sharingan user look at their feet not eyes. Itachi can do split sec genjutsu and I'm pretty sure Madara can do the same if not better then him when it comes to that. Hell Sharingan was held as master genjutsu kekkai before the ret-con. I wouldn't be shocked if this is a mass hallucination everyone is experiencing. Oh well got to wait and see I guess. I just hope this manga finishes with what little ounce of dignity it has left.

Yes... However I did notice this at first but it still shocks me... The dual Susanoo seal is fairly extreme there is a small part of me that thinks it may not be a genjutsu. But if so the move is way to imba. But it seems like a jutsu that needs Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan evolved into rinnegan using dual Susanoo with a tri-seal involving the Susanoo and the user... that is badass... If it is a genjutsu it has more to it then just being a meteor. I am fairly certain even itachi could cast a genjutsu like that on everyone. Maybe a special type of genjutsu that does not require the targets eye contact in the same way as most other genjutsu from the uchiha. Perhaps this will be similar to the "Moon Eyes" plan genjutsu but on a much smaller scale. Or this genjutsu has some other special properties etc. I don't see the need for such a special formation of seals just to put a very large group into a genjutsu.


^ This. Otherwise it's a combination of two time-space jutsu, something like summoning and a yellow flash/tobi teleport. That being said, the combo time-space jutsu is entirely more badass and would make up for the fact that fucking Madara needs the rinnegan to handle anyone in this fight, Naruto included.

So summoning a meteor from some region or area in space. That would be very sick and badass and would open up even more possibilities. Only some other uchiha like Itachi or Tobi could counter this. Probably not even Itachi.





Sasuke > Oro > Old 3rd > Hashirama (who is => Madara) + 2nd ?
It's almost impossible to calculate a true power line in naruto. Everything is balanced in it's own way. Or unbalanced.

If I had to select who I currently think is the most powerful existing character in Naruto only going on what we have seen... Ingoring Madara because he was just shown.

I would say Itachi, He faught sasuke and did extreme damage basically wearing Sasuke down to nothing and then Itachi took out orochimaru in 1-2 hits depending on how you look at it. On top of that not only was Itachi not in his prime but he was also living with reduced vision and suffering from what I would call a critical illness. AND ON TOP OF THAT! Itachi was basically trying to loose but still wanting to put up a good fight. Sasuke was much weaker back then but he was still very strong.

Itachi had that one special sword that could basically one-shot anyone that I can think of if it hits... And it's also extremely strong on top of just being a one-hit kill... if that even makes sense. He cut off those giant snake heads so easily before sealing oro. Then he has the yeta mirror which is said to block any attack. However I suspect it won't block some of the highest end Rinnegan/Madara moves an perhaps other moves of the same level. Or it might be able to block just about everything but has some other form of weakness or limit. So I think Itachi at worst is just below Madaras level from what we have seen so far.

That aside let me break down this list the best way I can.
Sasuke > Oro > Old 3rd > Hashirama

Sasuke basically sucker punched oro when he was on his deathbed. Sasuke already mentioned that oro was already weak when he killed him but we as viewers could tell that. It was still a fairly impressive feat. And it's been more then a while since Sasuke has in my opinion surpassed oro true strength. So Sasuke > Oro... Kind of still stands but not so much as the time the fight if you could call it that happened. But if oro had planned or was ready to revive all theses fighters like Kabuto has during this war it would have crushed sasuke. lol

Oro better then the Old 3rd... Well... Sure... The only thing that makes comparing certain people difficult is that as certain shows go on power differences fluctuate. For example the revived 1st and 2nd Hokages fought strongly for the time that they were revived but even shortly into the Timeskip if you look back they were nothing compared to some other Ninja. And this can be explained with two reasons.

Reason#1 The revival technics used weakened them. Perhaps the more recent impure world resurrection is more effective. Well actually we know that it is more effective they told us this to help cover the very plot hole I am talking about. There is no way the 1st and or 2nd were as weak in life as they were during the oro+Old 3rd fight. So as the manga progressed it had to keep elevating and expanding the fights so sooner or later kishimoto found a new balance of how strong certain people should be. Even oro really increased in fighting power post time-gap. And no that was not because of the time-gap itself. It was just because of how the manga evolved. Things like a Time-gap or how jutsu worked and other means can cover up small plot holes like this. The 3rd had a more true reason for fighting so weak. I suspect if we could see him fight in his prime or even now in the manga it would be a different.

Reason#2.... Plot Hole..

After explaining that I still of course think that oro is greater then the old 3rd... Because both oro and the Old 3rd would be under the negatives of the writing. And oro did have a fairly easy time for what it was worth. And mainly because the term Old 3rd was used. I could not say for sure who would win if it was oro VS younger 3rd.

Old 3rd > Hashirama?!!! NO! JUST NO!

Umm... Sure.... I did not even read old 3rd I read 3rd in his prime and it still lost to Hashirama in my mind. Why??? Well there is something about Hashirama we don't know it. Is it unfair to use that in this calculation... YES! And no...

If it is Old 3rd VS Hashirama I can say almost for sure Hashirama wins. It is more of an argument or debate about the 3rd in his prime VS Hashirama. I still say Hashirama wins mainly because all we have to go by was his revived body VS old 3rd... And the way the revived body fought in my opinion would have lost to a great number of Ninja... Garra... Sasuke... Naruto... Pein... Actually the way Hashirama fought in the battle with oro Vs old 3rd would have lost to any decent ninja. So for sure the real Hashirama who had what I suspect was a super high level battle with Madara apparently killing madara who is exposed to be one of the most powerful uchiha. Ya.... something tells me there is a lot more to Hashirama just from what we have already seen of the revived Madara is scary... And Hashirama beat him? In my personal opinion Hashirama is up there at the top of the list of the most powerful Ninja. I would consider him at worst on par with Sasuke even that is saying a lot.

[darkshadow]

Are you on some sort of strong hallucinogent? The difference shown in pre and post skip battles is more one of scale than an actual exponential increase of power. Oro's fight against sandaime was one of the highest powered battles in the naruto verse; the anbu at the scene even commented on how the fight was on a completely different level and seeing how the world already knew a lot of insanely powerful guys up to that point, like all the resurrected kages, it's not like this was the first time ninja were exposed to high level battle.
Heck the previous great ninja war had raikage/bee and yondaime, amongst many, tearing up people.

The battles we are shown now is just a natural evolution of the show where everyone one that was weak as fuck got stronger.
Kakashi really hasn't gotten that much stronger and even so he's always been at kage level, same with gai and most of the other high level people.
Most of akatsuki was at that level as well, with the exception of pein and tobi, who are both special due to deus ex machina. Heck even Itachi who's fucking strong by himself, just happened to have 2 deus ex machina's in the form of that ultra sword and shield.

It's also been well established that it was sarutobi who was called the god amongst ninjas and the professor, not the 1st, 2nd, 4th or 5th.... you don't give titles like that out for no reason. Sandaime in his prime was evidently perhaps the strongest ninja the narutoverse has produced after the the sage of 6 paths. Also kabuto's edo tensei being more efficient doesn't mean oro's resurrected them weaker. Kabuto just has it applied on a massive scale and is able to improve the resurrection beyond what they were in their prime, effectively making them stronger than they ever were; oro's edo tensei didn't resurrect weaker versions.

Again, the strong ninja had a relatively minor power increase, while the weak punks got older and stronger. This effectively flipped the scale to all battles being high powered; this makes the oro/3rd battle seem less special.

[rockmanj]

It's also been well established that it was sarutobi who was called the god amongst ninjas and the professor, not the 1st, 2nd, 4th or 5th.... you don't give titles like that out for no reason. Sandaime in his prime was evidently perhaps the strongest ninja the narutoverse has produced after the the sage of 6 paths. Also kabuto's edo tensei being more efficient doesn't mean oro's resurrected them weaker. Kabuto just has it applied on a massive scale and is able to improve the resurrection beyond what they were in their prime, effectively making them stronger than they ever were; oro's edo tensei didn't resurrect weaker versions.

Again, the strong ninja had a relatively minor power increase, while the weak punks got older and stronger. This effectively flipped the scale to all battles being high powered; this makes the oro/3rd battle seem less special.

I would also have to say that there is something to be said of having knowledge of techniques and being able to improve on them (both in the case of the 3rd and of Kabutoro). I think the fact that the 3rd had so much knowledge of techniques and and wisdom was very helpful. He may not have been the "god of shinobi" at the time he died, but he was still awfully strong and clever. Like GI Joe says, "knowing is half the battle", and you can be sure he knew a lot about the 1st and 2nd's techniques. Also, I would say that the 4th could still be the "most powerful shinboi" while the 3rd is known as "god of shinobi". There is a huge gap between 'god' and 'powerful'.

And as for the new Edo Tensei, we know Kabuto is all about the science of the ninja and improving on it. He has likely been working on refining the technique for its use and creating a superior version.

[viperwasp]

Are you on some sort of strong hallucinogent? The difference shown in pre and post skip battles is more one of scale than an actual exponential increase of power. Oro's fight against sandaime was one of the highest powered battles in the naruto verse; the anbu at the scene even commented on how the fight was on a completely different level and seeing how the world already knew a lot of insanely powerful guys up to that point, like all the resurrected kages, it's not like this was the first time ninja were exposed to high level battle.
Heck the previous great ninja war had raikage/bee and yondaime, amongst many, tearing up people.

Thank you. You kind of just made my point. It's hard to explain what I mean and explain it properly. But yes characters in the manga said that the fight was one of the highest powered battles in the Naruto verse. But that was a character in the show at that time. From all the fights we have saw up until that point it was basically the most extreme. However even the common fights since then have been about as highend if not more so. Sakura and the older woman sorry I forget names... VS sasori was in my opinion a higher end battle. Garra VS deidara was fairly close... Both of those were only at the start of the manga after the timeskip. So as time went on the manga had to keep being interesting and before to much longer you can look back at how oro and the old 3rd fought and say you know what... I have seen chunins perform almost as good in combat. Many fights were like 2-5 times as epic and powered. The 1st and 2nd hokages were derp... they basically did nothing. A couple jutsu each with decent ti-jutsu combat.


Sure there are many characters who got a huge explained power boost during the timegap, those who got a less of a boost as well so for the most part it is understandable. But one thing to notice is that things like timegaps and so forth are used as a ploy to explain strength increases. Characters who are already in there 25+ years of age or even a lot older 2-3 years time should do almost nothing. However we see even oro do some insane things since then. Kakashi seemed to really buckle down and train during that time gap because while he was decent before the gap after he was simply amazing. Now he could fight Zabuza and Haku himself so easily. And most of theses increases are understandable but an other huge example and something EVERYONE needs to pay attention too if your reading this that really shows how fights come down to the fact that this is a manga that has to be read by viewers or a story in general is that many of the revived ninja in the recent war ark that is happening right now. 90% of the time if the revived person had an exclusive ark or extended combat moments back before they were killed the first time there fights now are quick and seem a lot less extreme. Like even though they should be as dangerous they are not. Or in the very least it is shown offscreen. But most of theses fights are still shown almost totally.

What am I getting to? Well take deidara for example... He got a huge fight more then one fight and lost so sasuke. But he got very little screen time and it was not the same since he was revived. And this is even a bad example because he actually got more then others did. A great majority of the people dropped like flys. Sure Itachi,Pain and some others who are still considered important to the plot had or will have more higher end battles. But since many of the revived ninja who were already featured before are kind of pointless there fights are not shown or more then likely they go out very quickly. Often losing there will to fight and turning to stone or fading away into dust Sasori is was of the best examples. And the reason is the writer is bored of them and it's already been shown and explained and there backstory and plot is done so it's just bothersome to the viewers and time consuming and boring for the writer to implement them as much. So the writer will find ways to write them off quicker perhaps even having some excuses but in reality they should have had more screen time and much more complicated battles. Sasori was a huge let down... But you know what! I was happy it was done the way it was done because I did not care. I want the manga to move forward more quickly. But a lot of things like timeskips, an the way jutsus work and other things while they might be cool and make sense a lot of any written material is done so on purpose to kind of move the story along and to prevent or cover up plot holes.

If the oro and old 3rd fight happened now for the first time it would be completely different. Because the understanding of what is an extremely high-end fight in naruto has changed over the years. A Manga takes years to write! The writer and viewers all go though a change and the story evolves. Pre-time gap kakashi probably could have beaten or done very well against the revived 1st and 2nd hokage judging from there performance during the oro/old 3rd fight.

Were the true strength of the 1st and or 2nd hokage even 1 on 1 could crush and murder the current post-time gap kakashi without to much trouble.

[darkshadow]

You type way too much just to say you base what you think of oro/1st/2nd/3rd's power on that one fight. You need to relativise and just accept that in universe it was some of the most extreme shit anyone had seen. That the manga has 'evolved' to make everything "seem" more higher powered doesn't do away with 'canon'; sarutobi was and will always be an exceptionally powerful ninja regardless of how fights were portrayed.
Heck the zabuza example, try remembering it better, kakashi was completely fucking with zabuza the whole time. I think kakashi even bitchslapped zabuza twice when he finally decided to put an end to the fight:
4m19s

http://youtu.be/cXlI0P1jEJU?t=4m19s
Zabuza and haku were NEVER a match for kakashi.
Anyway I'm pretty sure that if kishi decided to show some of 3rd's achievements in his prime now, it would completely eclipse anything we've seen from anyone aside from madara/tobi/pein.

Why am I even discussing this.

[Sidnne]

Damn, I remember when Chidori was one of the most badass techniques ever. Now, it doesn't even seem relevant.

[rockmanj]

Damn, I remember when Chidori was one of the most badass techniques ever. Now, it doesn't even seem relevant.

It is still a pretty good killing technique. I mean, Sasuke basically improved on it and applied it to weapons. Sure, all these kages and legendary ninjas have crazy techniques, but I would still bet a well-placed chidori could be useful.

[viperwasp]

Damn, I remember when Chidori was one of the most badass techniques ever. Now, it doesn't even seem relevant.

LOL! I kind of agree but also agree with the other person above me who said that it could still be useful.

BUT! All that aside I am interested about something.... Remember when Sasuke could only use the Chidori like 2 times maybe a 3rd and he would be done... in the sasuke VS garra battle for example. I think even kakashi said his limit was maybe four? At that time...

How many times do you think Sasuke can use Chidori in a row now? I'm thinking somewere around 50... lol

[Carnage]

Why are you all putting so much effort into arguing over this manga? There's no consistency in the story, there's really no point. Its like when people bothered asking Akira Toriyama shit, and he'd just go "Who? What? I completely forgot about that". This manga is just a cash cow for Kishimoto at this point.

[viperwasp]

Why are you all putting so much effort into arguing over this manga? There's no consistency in the story, there's really no point. Its like when people bothered asking Akira Toriyama shit, and he'd just go "Who? What? I completely forgot about that". This manga is just a cash cow for Kishimoto at this point.

Ummm no it's not. Kishimoto may not be the best mangak but hes very skilled. And I will admit that things are getting messed up and have been for a while. But naruto is not just a cash cow. I'm sorry I don't know what manga you follow or have read but there are A LOT of what I guess you can call cash mangas out there. Naruto is NOT one of them, not by a long shot. You can tell that Kishimoto still does what Kishimoto wants. You can say that the manga itself is not what it used to be. And I think naruto needs to be ending kind of soon. But unlike Dragon Ball Z etc! Naruto will remain a hot topic in terms of debates, fanfics, and won't become like how Dragon Ball series is now. Years after it's over it will still be Naruto. The only long running action manga series that I think is generally done better then naruto in most areas is One Piece. One Piece is the cream of the crop. Bleach on the other hand is... ummm drifting slowly towards being terrible! And guess what! Not even bleach is a cash cow!

My last thing I will say is if Naruto was just a cash cow I don't think Kishimoto would be ending the series. And it may be a few years before it ends because manga take forever! But Naruto certainly seems like it's slowly heading towards the end now. This is the final arc etc.

But if your just saying that Naruto has plot holes... Some lazy writing and characters as of late... and should defiantly come to an end sometime soon. Then you would be perfectly right! But I don't think Kishimoto has ever truly been in it for the money. All writers of any material want money and will go out of there way for money. Money is basically life. But Kishimoto is what I would call a true mangak not saying he is the only one... There are a lot of true mangak out there. So I don't think it's pointless to talk about Naruto or discuss it. I still think it's following a general path plot-wise and has been at least decently planned out for a long time now.

It's not easy writing any manga let alone one that has been going on for over 10 years and still holds what I would assume the 1st, second or third top action manga series title.