Naruto Chapter 559

[Marik]

[MangaStream & Binktopia] Naruto c.559: MediaFire (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?uuk8128kdtmrbg2) | MultiUpload (http://www.multiupload.com/PC45B4ZR56) | Online Viewing (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/94539395/1)

[DB_Hunter]

OK... things got really interesting. Conspiracy theories back to Tobi being Obito?

[LunaticCat]

surprise, surprise... not! guess this was clear from the very start, but its good to know who was the one in the last coffin.
I'm pretty sure now that "Madara" is actually Obito

anyways the chapter was okay, and for the first time since this arc started I'm looking forward to the next chapter :D


edit: i got a "very gay"-negative rep for this. thank you so much! made my day!:eek:

[MFauli]

The question isn´t if "Madara" is Obito or not. Even if it is Obito, it wouldn´t make sense for him to be the mastermind behind all this.

I will post it here in all detail, because I feel like if things pan out that way, it would excuse A LOT of mediocre decisions made by Kishimoto during this war. It would make this manga awesome again. That already reveals what I´m planning to talk about: Orochimaru.

For Kabuto to know about it, it´s the only explanation to make sense. It could also explain the other, previous Madara: Yes, Obito is behind that mask, but only because Orochimaru for some reason needed an Uchiha´s body to experiment on. Orochimaru deluded Obito into believing that he was Madara, creating a fake-leader for Akatsuki to keep himself in the shadows. Obito being behind the mask also makes sense in that he has the Mangekyou-Sharingan (maybe he thought Rin had died) and his ability to make his body untouchable -> a result from being crushed, thus developing a special technique to counter this tragic experience.
That all could also be a backup plan for Orochimaru´s own safety. The way he attacked Itachi looked always weird and incompetent, didnt it. But what if Orochimaru had no choice? What if either he was so weakened that getting himself sealed up by Susanoo was his only rescue, or what if he planned to investigate Susanoo from the inside? He would need an Uchiha to free himself. Maybe he knew that Itachi would somehow counter a hypothetical resurrection, thus him having Obito as an emergency trigger.

Yes, some of that sounds far-fetched, but if somehow Orochimaru came out to be the true mastermind behind all this evil, the manga would be forgiven a lot by me.

[Paper]

"I'm pretty sure now that "Madara" is actually Obito"

What clues did they give that suggest it's Obito? besides the fact that Madra was revive....Maybe the Fake Madra is actually someone who wasn't born a uchiha??.... Just throwing it out there.. it wouldn't be the first non-uchiha sharigan user Kakashi...Danzo... Obito was Crush under a boulder let him R.I.P for once

[darkshadow]

Pretty cool how naruto was everywhere.

[Mangafreak]

"I'm pretty sure now that "Madara" is actually Obito"

What clues did they give that suggest it's Obito? besides the fact that Madra was revive....Maybe the Fake Madra is actually someone who wasn't born a uchiha??.... Just throwing it out there.. it wouldn't be the first non-uchiha sharigan user Kakashi...Danzo... Obito was Crush under a boulder let him R.I.P for once

Well said lol, let Obito R.I.P!! y would obito even have the motive to try and take over the world?
my guess would be that tobi/fake madara might be madaras younger brother and he took madaras eyes wen he died or something. only a guess but we'll find out the truth in the upcoming mangas hopfully.
Manga has gotten very interesting.

[toonice714]

The question isn´t if "Madara" is Obito or not. Even if it is Obito, it wouldn´t make sense for him to be the mastermind behind all this.

I will post it here in all detail, because I feel like if things pan out that way, it would excuse A LOT of mediocre decisions made by Kishimoto during this war. It would make this manga awesome again. That already reveals what I´m planning to talk about: Orochimaru.

For Kabuto to know about it, it´s the only explanation to make sense. It could also explain the other, previous Madara: Yes, Obito is behind that mask, but only because Orochimaru for some reason needed an Uchiha´s body to experiment on. Orochimaru deluded Obito into believing that he was Madara, creating a fake-leader for Akatsuki to keep himself in the shadows. Obito being behind the mask also makes sense in that he has the Mangekyou-Sharingan (maybe he thought Rin had died) and his ability to make his body untouchable -> a result from being crushed, thus developing a special technique to counter this tragic experience.
That all could also be a backup plan for Orochimaru´s own safety. The way he attacked Itachi looked always weird and incompetent, didnt it. But what if Orochimaru had no choice? What if either he was so weakened that getting himself sealed up by Susanoo was his only rescue, or what if he planned to investigate Susanoo from the inside? He would need an Uchiha to free himself. Maybe he knew that Itachi would somehow counter a hypothetical resurrection, thus him having Obito as an emergency trigger.

Yes, some of that sounds far-fetched, but if somehow Orochimaru came out to be the true mastermind behind all this evil, the manga would be forgiven a lot by me.
o.O I hope that's true. I alwaays wanted orochimaru to be the big bad the whole time. He is the only consistently evil character in the manga. The only problem with your theory is this, if he has a revived uchiha body why not just take the sharingan from the body of obito and implant it? He is going to have to do the body swap constantly anyways. His main goal is to live forever an learn every jutsu. I guess constantly removing and replacing sharingan is tedious but the fake madara has tons of them.

[rockmanj]

That was kind of interesting. Maybe it isn't Madara, but his brother, Izuna. It would make sense for him to have a vendetta against everything and the huge collection of eyes would fit in, as his were stolen (or maybe the story was the other way around and he is the one that took Madara's eyes).

[LunaticCat]

Obito was Crush under a boulder let him R.I.P for once
I don't say I like the idea, but I think it might be Obito anyway.
But you are right - I have no real proof.
His hairstyle and the scars on the right side of his face, and the matter of fact that he (probably) had no left eye are the only evidence.
I think it would be stupid if it would be someone not yet introduced so it would fit in Kishi-way-of-thinking if its Obito.
But it doesn't matter at all because we will know next week. At least I hope so :D

[FireEmblem]

How does the real Madara know Nagato??

[DB_Hunter]

How does the real Madara know Nagato??

That's something that's been nagging me too. Madara was supposed to have died long before Nagato was even born so he should have no clue as to who he is. They way he was talking seemed to suggest that he believes Nagato is the one who brought him back... or does he, as he seems surprised that Edo Tensei has been used?

Going back a bit to when Tobi says to Konan that he wants the Rinnengan from Nagato. He tells her that the eyes belong to him as he was the one who gave them to Nagato in the first place. No we know Nagato activated the Rinnengan as a child, and unless he had his memory wiped he would have told Jiraiya that his eyes were transplanted when he was training under him.

That would mean the only way what Tobi said is true about Nagato's eyes is he gave them to him but not physically. Which would mean either an Itachi/Mangekyou style Sasuke transfer or... Tobi is Nagato's dad (also called Nagato??)!!! But then Tobi is saying he is Uchiha Madara, which seems to be a lie right now so why should we believe what he said to Konan?

Perhaps Tobi is Madara. If we look at what is going on in, one person/chakra seems to have been split before. You have Kabuto who is now part Oro (OK so Oro is dead but if he wasn't sealed he could be brought back via Edo Tensei). The you have the case of the two (mountain?) brothers who after spending time in Kyuubi's belly took on some of Kyuubi's chakra, giving the impression to someone who can sense chakra e.g Naruto in Sage/Kyuubi mode, that Kyuubi had appeared. You also have the case of Hashrima Senju, who has some of his DNA in Yamamoto.

Now none of the cases above seem to be an exact fit to the Tobi/Madara mystery, but it could be something modelled on the above where Tobi is either

a) An independent person with parts of Madara's DNA/Chakra. This could be a rinnengan user i.e. Nagato's father. Why he would willingly let his

or

b) Actually a clone/duplicate of Madara, where he lives on but due to splitting with his other part is extremely weak. This would explain why he is a shadow of his former self, as part of him is now actually dead.

Finally, this is totally a long shot, it could actually be the Sage of Six paths himself. As he was the Jyuubi Jinchuuriki, maybe he took on some of the behaviour/characteristics of the creature which were the evil nature/ability to regenerate if defeated/destroyed after some time. It could be that now he is back, he wants the Jyuubi restored in order to restore his own powers. This wouldn't explain why he would attack Konoha at the time of Minato. Or anything else.

I dunno, this is going to take some explaining. Unless it's Obito who has gone crazy for being abandoned, but then he should show some emotion towards Kakashi, who was his friend and there when he died.

[darkshadow]

The brother would indeed make more sense, the sharingan didn't show a hint of EMS either yet...

[Assertn]

That was kind of interesting. Maybe it isn't Madara, but his brother, Izuna. It would make sense for him to have a vendetta against everything and the huge collection of eyes would fit in, as his were stolen (or maybe the story was the other way around and he is the one that took Madara's eyes).
If we were to believe the story "Tobi" told Sasuke, then Madara's brother sacrificed his eyes willingly for the sake of his brother. Did he just lie about his own sacrifice while pretending to be Madara?

I still like the previous idea of Madara existing as some sort of ethereal state apart from his body, though that wouldn't make sense that he wouldn't become bound back to his body after the resurrection jutsu.

[Archangel]

Lol, and we're back here again. I'm done with the conspiracies though, i'll just wait and see how this unfolds.

[rockmanj]

If we were to believe the story "Tobi" told Sasuke, then Madara's brother sacrificed his eyes willingly for the sake of his brother. Did he just lie about his own sacrifice while pretending to be Madara?

I still like the previous idea of Madara existing as some sort of ethereal state apart from his body, though that wouldn't make sense that he wouldn't become bound back to his body after the resurrection jutsu.

I don't know to what end lying about a sacrifice would do (maybe because it connects to the Itachi/Sasuke story), but we do know that Tobi lies about a lot.

[DB_Hunter]

The thing about Tobi being Izuna is that he was said to have died in battle. Unless this was a lie?

[LunaticCat]

I still like the previous idea of Madara existing as some sort of ethereal state apart from his body

that would be really great, i think

[6Zabuza9]

It can't be Obito. Tobi was fought the Fourth when Naruto was born and the Nine Tails attacked. Obito would have been around 14 years old during that time. Clearly even with the mask Tobi looked over 14 years old while fighting the Fourth unless he suddenly grew like 2 feet, learn new techniques that rival the Fourth, and found new hatred for Konoha all within a year from his death.

[Assertn]

Kishi is taking a page out of JJ Abrams book with this shit, though I'm very skeptical about his ability to pull through with something that won't seem completely contrived and/or gimmicky.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Could be Itachi

Pritty fricken awesome no matter who it is. I always knew it wasn't madara, even when you all would laugh at us saying it was Obito even if it isn't him it still isn't Madara SO HA!

[DB_Hunter]

Question: Who would hate Konoha and be powerful enough to have attacked Konoha with Kyuubi, fought Minato, helped Itachi eradicate the Uchiha clan whilst convincing him that he was Madara, posses the Sharingan AND the Rinnegan, know of the Jyuubi legend and desire for it to be resurrected?

I can only think of the Sage of the Six Paths, albeit in a weakened form. His hatred for Konoha may have come from the fact that his own two lines, the Senju and the Uchiha, had made peace instead of competing with each other. This made this village way more powerful than the others so it had to be destroyed.

[toonice714]

It can't be Obito. Tobi was fought the Fourth when Naruto was born and the Nine Tails attacked. Obito would have been around 14 years old during that time. Clearly even with the mask Tobi looked over 14 years old while fighting the Fourth unless he suddenly grew like 2 feet, learn new techniques that rival the Fourth, and found new hatred for Konoha all within a year from his death.
I was literally coming back to post exactly this....sheesh.
But yeah it can't be obito. Ruling out all possible uchiha/and look alikes: none of sasuke's family, obito, danzou, shisui, or the original madara(b/c it has brought him back to his body's last state. B/c seriously anime characters only cut their hair at important plot points like time skips or other events). Also the uchiha police can't be involved b/c they were all massacred by itachi and the now fake madara. So that totally leave the window open for madara's brother I guess. Thoughts gentlemen?

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

LOL Man I keep forgetting he fought the fourth back in the day. Sooo who the fuck is it....


The whole Madara's brother seems plausible but not likely.

[rockmanj]

The thing about Tobi being Izuna is that he was said to have died in battle. Unless this was a lie?

The same was said of Mardara; that he died fighting the 1st.

[DB_Hunter]

Well I'm going for Sage of Six Paths then. It can't be Oro, as Kabutoro would surely know/have detected this.

Madara's brother? Why? What's the motive? If Madara was then killed by the First AND Izuna didn't die as told, he could have stuck around to gain revenge on Konoha for killing his brother. But that doesn't answer the question as to why Tobi is a weak fighter right now.

[subwoofer]

Well I'm going for Sage of Six Paths then.

^dat. It actually makes sense. First of all, the hair. No body said that he had blond(ish) hair or stuff, it obviously match. Second, god he is powerful, to possess some ability to make your body transcend into the void.

But that doesn't answer the question as to why Tobi is a weak fighter right now.
If my theory proves to be right, then the Sage of the Six Paths may yet linger from the aftermath of the Juubi battle.

AM JUST SAYIN'!

[Y]

I'd just like to say that if you actually thought for even one second that the face behind Tobi's mask was Uchiha Madara's, you are the dumbest motherfucker alive.

[Tofu #2]

If he had the EMS, wouldn't it be continuously activated? He just has the regular sharingan

[Archangel]

I'd just like to say that if you actually thought for even one second that the face behind Tobi's mask was Uchiha Madara's, you are the dumbest motherfucker alive.
AKA the average narutard.

[Y]

http://www.mangareader.net/93-35269-10/naruto/chapter-467.html

Tobi's plan is to "return to his former self"... or at least that's "one way of putting it".

http://www.mangareader.net/93-458-17/naruto/chapter-453.html

Tobi wanted Nagato to use the real resurrection jutsu on him.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/94539395/3

The Impure World Resurrection Uchiha Madara initially mistakenly believed that Nagato brought him back to life.

So, Tobi is still Uchiha Madara. His plan was to have Nagato use the resurrection jutsu on him, just like the undead Madara wanted. I guess he didn't have access to his real dead corpse to resurrect himself with, or there was some other restriction. "Tobi" is Madara's soul inside someone else's body. Considering the malleability of his body I'm gonna say he is possessing the other half of Black Zetsu. Oh, and he's Obito too, still, btw.

[Sidnne]

OK, so the whole Madara thing aside for now...

Anyone else think it's completely badass that Kakashi is using Zabuza's sword?

[Archangel]

I'd like to point out that they still haven't shown us Zombie Madara's left eye... so maybe body and spirit have one each? This shit is confusing >_>

[Shuichi_Utazu]

If we were to believe the story "Tobi" told Sasuke, then Madara's brother sacrificed his eyes willingly for the sake of his brother. Did he just lie about his own sacrifice while pretending to be Madara?

I still like the previous idea of Madara existing as some sort of ethereal state apart from his body, though that wouldn't make sense that he wouldn't become bound back to his body after the resurrection jutsu.

That would be a pretty good theory. I have more belief in that idea than it being Obito. His death seemed like it would have been an actual true ordeal, but at the same note the fact that the same eye that obito had given to kakashi has been replaced by a rinnegan makes that rather pluasible as well. This is quite the conundrum

[Shuichi_Utazu]

OK, so the whole Madara thing aside for now...

Anyone else think it's completely badass that Kakashi is using Zabuza's sword?

I agree completely it is frickin awesome that he is using it. I just hope they show more combat while he wields it

[UChessmaster]

I'd like to point out that they still haven't shown us Zombie Madara's left eye... so maybe body and spirit have one each? This shit is confusing >_>

He would still get resurrected with both eyes though no?

[HmniKadoza]

Hi, first time poster, long time peruse-r. I had to post on this chapter because of the implications and my theory on who it is.

I believe its the Sage of the Six Paths elder son. The ancestor of the Uchiha and the man shunned by his father in favor of the younger brother. Notice that the pattern on Tobi's mask is the same as the doujutsu of the elder brother. Who else could have access to the rinnegan, the eyes of the Sage? Who else would hold such a grudge against all members of the Senju clan? Who else would know how to reassemble the bijuu into their complete form?

While the original Sage had the power, I don't see the motive, when he chose the younger brother for reasons of peace and balance, where as, as "Madara" admitted, the elder brother was the reason for the Curse of Hatred. Because of all these reasons, I believe with 90% confidence that the elder son of teh Sage of the Six Paths is the true villian and the man behind the mask.

[Uchiha Barles]

I'm telling you, kishimoto reads these forums. Why would he? Because somehow, the nonsense that people come up with in here is better than the garbage his own mind is responsible for. And he knows it.

[Tofu #2]

I'd like to point out that they still haven't shown us Zombie Madara's left eye... so maybe body and spirit have one each? This shit is confusing >_>

yes but tobi already showed both of his eyes

[rockmanj]

Yea, they come back with both eyes; case in point: Itachi Uchiha.

[EpyonNext]

Tobi will end up being Bob Saget.

[MFauli]

Man, I just had the craziest of ideas: Okay, so Orochimaru was sealed away by Itachi. And we assumed that even though Kabuto carried Orochimaru´s DNA, this would at most result in Kabuto being a bit "like" Oro, but not turn him into the actual Oro. Well, didn´t Kishimoto set up a precedence for the opposite to be true? When Sandaime sealed away just Orochimaru´s arms in their battle on the roof top in Konoha, we thought that would be the end for them. Well, turns out that a new body was enough to somehow restore his soul. I think that´s enough evidence to at least consider the possibility of Orochimaru coming back into the world by having his DNA grow on Kabuto´s body, thus restoring Oro´s soul, as established by his own experiments.

Not saying that it will happen, only that it could happen.

[Sidnne]

Hi, first time poster, long time peruse-r. I had to post on this chapter because of the implications and my theory on who it is.

I believe its the Sage of the Six Paths elder son. The ancestor of the Uchiha and the man shunned by his father in favor of the younger brother. Notice that the pattern on Tobi's mask is the same as the doujutsu of the elder brother. Who else could have access to the rinnegan, the eyes of the Sage? Who else would hold such a grudge against all members of the Senju clan? Who else would know how to reassemble the bijuu into their complete form?

While the original Sage had the power, I don't see the motive, when he chose the younger brother for reasons of peace and balance, where as, as "Madara" admitted, the elder brother was the reason for the Curse of Hatred. Because of all these reasons, I believe with 90% confidence that the elder son of teh Sage of the Six Paths is the true villian and the man behind the mask.

If that were the case, then why the need to put a mask on him? There would be no reason to hide his identity, not only from the reader, but from the other characters as well. If he were to take the mask off, none of us would go "OMG, IT'S THE SON OF THE SAGE OF THE SIX PATHS!!" And neither would any of the characters in the manga.

It would have to be the face of someone who would be recognized by both the readers and the characters. And would be worth it for Kishi to keep it hidden for these several years.

[Y]

If that were the case, then why the need to put a mask on him? There would be no reason to hide his identity, not only from the reader, but from the other characters as well. If he were to take the mask off, none of us would go "OMG, IT'S THE SON OF THE SAGE OF THE SIX PATHS!!" And neither would any of the characters in the manga.

It would have to be the face of someone who would be recognized by both the readers and the characters. And would be worth it for Kishi to keep it hidden for these several years.

Yo it's Obito and it has been for around 6 years.

[LunaticCat]

You guys say it can't be Obito because Madara fought fought Minato back then. But maybe he was still alive during that time, but now he is using Obitos body or something for the plan "Y" pointed out.

[MFauli]

Or maybe it´s all Itachi´s genjutsu. :-o

[Soulreaver]

http://www.mangareader.net/93-35269-10/naruto/chapter-467.html

Tobi's plan is to "return to his former self"... or at least that's "one way of putting it".

http://www.mangareader.net/93-458-17/naruto/chapter-453.html

Tobi wanted Nagato to use the real resurrection jutsu on him.

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/94539395/3

The Impure World Resurrection Uchiha Madara initially mistakenly believed that Nagato brought him back to life.

So, Tobi is still Uchiha Madara. His plan was to have Nagato use the resurrection jutsu on him, just like the undead Madara wanted. I guess he didn't have access to his real dead corpse to resurrect himself with, or there was some other restriction. "Tobi" is Madara's soul inside someone else's body. Considering the malleability of his body I'm gonna say he is possessing the other half of Black Zetsu. Oh, and he's Obito too, still, btw.

First time poster, had to join and get in on this discussion, i agree with "Y" I think it is Madara's soul and personality but not his body. My thoughts are that perhaps before Madara died he used some sort of ultimate genjutsu on someone to think that they are Madara just like how Itachi used genjutsu on himself to break free from Impure World Resurrection. Any thoughts on this?

[SilentSnake]

Tbh I never understood why Madara's brother died cause of loss of his eyes...

Also if he was a hero couldn't he just get a pair of regular eyes/some other Uchiha's eyes and simply... live on? XD

Story felt fishy back then and it feels fishy now, so I imo Tobi lied about the brother being dead.

Real Madara dies, his brother ( Tobi ) gets a hold of sharingan in some way (aftermath of 1st vs Madara?) and pretends he's his brother to get extra fear/reputation points ;)

[Edort4]

Nice chapter, liked Kakashi and Sai being useful. About the discussion I cant add anyhting. At this point it seems that anything could happen and be explained with whatever they want.

Anyways I have the feeling that the one behind the mask killed Madara at some point. All those theories about souls, part of DNAs and so are too fishy.
I dont know who is behind tha mask, it could be anyone we havent seen edo tenseid. Obito, Orochimaru, The sage... Iruka. Lets hope we get some more hints so we cant elaborate further in new chapters.

[MFauli]

Isn´t the biggest question at this point: WHY does Kabuto know about it all?! He had to know about the real Madara being dead, otherwise he couldn´t have revived him. I think that´s the biggest clue here to find out what´s going on. But I haven´t given it in-depth thought yet.

[rockmanj]

Tbh I never understood why Madara's brother died cause of loss of his eyes...



He didn't die from the loss of eyes. It was said that he "died in battle".

[SilentSnake]

He didn't die from the loss of eyes. It was said that he "died in battle".

I'm pretty sure he didn't die in battle in the translation I read, wtf.

But y I can see now that he died in battle according to narutopedia.

[Mangafreak]

people are saying that we.ve only seen one of tobi's eyes....... are u forgetting that he used his left eye in order to evade an attack from konan by using the izanagi and because that eye is closed up forever after using the techniqe he took the rennigan and inplanted it.

i first throught that tobi might be madara's younger brother and i still do but other people are coming up with very good thoughts as well such as him being the sage of sixth path trying to get his former body back and what not. This could be true since in the manga he said that Nagato is originally from the Uzumaki clan. tobi said something along the lines of "the trademark uzumaki red hair has turned snow white" while he was standing above nagatos dead body. he also said he GAVE nagato the rennigan which nagato is orginally an Uzumaki (if thats true). so it kinda fit for tobi to be the sage of sixth paths who is the only one who would have access to the rennigan.

at the moment there are two guesses of who he really is for me and him being the sage of six paths is more beliavable then him being madaras younger brother.

btw about madara's brother dieing in battle. who knows if its a lie or not lol. we discovered tobi lies ALOT!!!!

[Keno]

Very interesting chapter and theories. I have 1 thing to add though. If he is the Sage of the Six Paths as mentioned by some, why would he need to hide his face and why make it seem like he's Madara? Can't he just say, "I'm the Sage of the Six Paths. I'm pretty much god. Help me in my quest for peace." Blahblahblah.

I find it hard to believe the Sage of the Six Paths would fake to be Madara. Doesnt make sense to me. Like a president saying.. fear me, I'm the secretary! :D

[MFauli]

How about that: The sage of six paths (cant we just call him Rikudou Sennin) is trying to revive himself by gathering all bijuus. He´s in a very weakened state and thus took the appearance of Madara, who he knew had more recent creds, so he used him to get it into everyone´s head: Here comes a powerful guy. Once he succeeds in gathering the bijuus, he can reach to the Juubi, which is actually the core of himself.

His ultimate plan, once he´s revived? Complete chaos on earth.

PS: lol, I love coming up with crazy theories. This chapter brought back the old Naruto, yay.

[Mazzgaat]

Theirs so many theorys at the moment but hardly any facts, Lets state some facts.
Madara has to be dead to be bought back to live, which means his dead.
Tobi has to be a guy uchiha because he knows a lot about the sharingan.
Kakashi's and Tobi's sharingan are a like they have the same jutsu, just tobi's is more developed and kakashi took his eye from Obito. This shows that Tobi is either Obito or someone who stole Obito's other eye.
It is said that Uchiha Shisui uses the sharingan the best, if so why doesnt kabuto summon him? he would be the best tool for the war, This could mean that Shisui is still alive maybe?
Finally Tobi might be Izuna and the story of madara is the other way around.

[UChessmaster]

Whatever the case, tobi is certainly related to Madara since Kisame identified him as such.

[Y]

Whatever the case, tobi is certainly related to Madara since Kisame identified him as such.

Kisame identified him as Madara because Tobi called himself Madara and has been calling himself that for quite some time, since it was Tobi who attacked the 4th Hokage. In addition, the only thing we really know about Tobi's face is that it definitely isn't the same as the "real" face of Madara.

After some rereading I'm starting to think it's an imposter who stole an Uchiha's eye and wanted to have Nagato resurrect him into Madara's body to steal a fully functional Uchiha body. This would mean that both of the main villains' master plans was to steal an Uchiha body, which has a certain awful symmetry. In fact, I think it's likely that Tobi is preparing Sasuke as a backup by giving him all the eye shit and leading him on.

It's VERY suspicious that Tobi repeatedly identifies himself as Madara to people he has absolutely no business revealing his identity to.

[Sidnne]

Whatever the case, tobi is certainly related to Madara since Kisame identified him as such.

He identified him as "Mizukage." That has nothing to do with being related to Madara.

[toonice714]

Theirs so many theorys at the moment but hardly any facts, Lets state some facts.
Madara has to be dead to be bought back to live, which means his dead.
Tobi has to be a guy uchiha because he knows a lot about the sharingan.
Kakashi's and Tobi's sharingan are a like they have the same jutsu, just tobi's is more developed and kakashi took his eye from Obito. This shows that Tobi is either Obito or someone who stole Obito's other eye.
It is said that Uchiha Shisui uses the sharingan the best, if so why doesnt kabuto summon him? he would be the best tool for the war, This could mean that Shisui is still alive maybe?
Finally Tobi might be Izuna and the story of madara is the other way around.
Uchiha shisui's body is gone there is no DNA to bring him back. Obito is too young and inexperienced to take on the 4th and he alos lacks the motive. Guys it is most likely Madara but he needed his body revived. Which is why he needed nagato. Madara's actual body is well aware of the war. He doesn't know who is controlling him but he does know about the war. That does mean he knows about starting the war and the flow of things in terms of how his reserrection plays out. This battle is only going to get more drawn out. With Madara's actual body joining the fray along with sasuke things are a little unbalanced now.

[Wassup Doc]

My theory is that the current tobi is just a more advanced zetsu with sharingon / rinnegan. Madara knew he was dying and assigned his best zetsu to take over. Madara's plan was to have Tobi assume his identity and implant Nagato with the rinnegan which he commanded Tobi to manipulate Nagato into resurrecting him when the time is right. That's why he told Mu that it finally happened and came to the conclusion that Nagato grew believing his plan went as expected.

[Y]

He identified him as "Mizukage." That has nothing to do with being related to Madara.

He says "Madara, I mean Mizukage." to show the audience that Tobi was acting as the Mizukage.

[Keno]

Would be funny if at the end he's just some random guy who nobody knew, named Uchiha Tobi, lol. I think it would be more badass as a character. Some dude that's been plotting mayhem for a couple of decades in the shadows. Isn't that what ninjas is all about? :D

[MFauli]

btw I must have missed that: Is it true that Nagato is from the Uzumaki-clan? So, he´s a relative of Naruto´s in some way? Well, fuck all that crap about "hard worker vs genius". Naruto is now more of genius than Sasuke, sigh.

[DB_Hunter]

Wasn't Tobi shit scared when Kabuto summoned the final casket in their negotiations? Now that we know it was Madara that he saw, how could could Tobi be Madara and yet be scared of seeing his 'other' form?

Also, makes me think that this would rule out the Sage of Six Paths as well as he shouldn't be afraid of Madara.

If those two are ruled out, who's left?

[Archangel]

Wasn't Tobi shit scared when Kabuto summoned the final casket in their negotiations? Now that we know it was Madara that he saw, how could could Tobi be Madara and yet be scared of seeing his 'other' form?

Because the one in power of his other form is Kabuto?

[toonice714]

Yeah I don't think he was so much scared as he was pissed that he had his body.......he kinda needed that it seems. I think if you are trying to run the world that its gonna be a LITTLE hard to do that if someone has your undead body euipped with nearly infinite chakra and all your moves.

[DB_Hunter]

Possibly, you guys could be right. But why would he call Kabuto a madman? What was it about getting the other Madara (lets call it body B) that made him more mad than getting Itachi, the Kages, etc?

[rockmanj]

I still like my Izuna theory. His motive could be that he never got the recognition he felt due, hated the Uchihas and Konoha, and would be socked/angry at seeing the corpse of Mardara.

[Y]

Possibly, you guys could be right. But why would he call Kabuto a madman? What was it about getting the other Madara (lets call it body B) that made him more mad than getting Itachi, the Kages, etc?

Gee, I dunno. Because it's his fucking body?

[toonice714]

Gee, I dunno. Because it's his fucking body?
Harsh....but yeah that basically gives kabuto free range to essentially control madara himself no pun intended. Its like yo dawg we heard you like uchiha so now you can control your uchiha with uchiha....
Anyways it is essentially madara being his own worst nightmare.

[DB_Hunter]

Don't buy that. If Tobi acknowledged his own body aka Madara being in Kabuto's control then letting Kabuto live is allowing his balls to rest in Kabuto's palm. By letting Kabuto live he is handicapping himself by allowing an Edo Tensei user to be able to control his body. He would know that the minute he turns his back on Kabuto he could pull out his body and wreak havoc; any deal done between them like the one they have would be meaningless.

That would be a reason over and above anything else to kill Kabuto/attempt to kill him asap, but he hasn't done it. Instead we see Tobi rushing to activate his mega jutsu, which would mean anything that he is doing now is about pursuing his real objective rather than trying to unify with his dead body.

[toonice714]

Don't buy that. If Tobi acknowledged his own body aka Madara being in Kabuto's control then letting Kabuto live is allowing his balls to rest in Kabuto's palm. By letting Kabuto live he is handicapping himself by allowing an Edo Tensei user to be able to control his body. He would know that the minute he turns his back on Kabuto he could pull out his body and wreak havoc; any deal done between them like the one they have would be meaningless.

That would be a reason over and above anything else to kill Kabuto/attempt to kill him asap, but he hasn't done it. Instead we see Tobi rushing to activate his mega jutsu, which would mean anything that he is doing now is about pursuing his real objective rather than trying to unify with his dead body.
You are right but madara still needed to fight the war. The only reason he let kabuto help was because he had that AND he needed...well...bodies. otherwise it would've been sasuke and madara v.s the entire united hidden villages.

[viperwasp]

The kind of scary thing is that if it was not for naruto as far as I can tell Tobi would have been fairly close to beating the army without Kabutos help. Once those clones started to transform things went south... actually we had not even started to see what they could really do in terms of Sabotage... What does nerve me a little is somehow I think Tobi had other things in his bag of tricks that he has not had to use since kabuto helped out. Well one thing for sure he could probably curb stomp half an army with his massive golem. lol

But I think Kabuto needs to thank Naruto! Because if naruto did not kill and beat pain not only would pain still be alive but more then likely pain could have or would have been used to revive madara or what ever Tobi meant when he said that pain was exposed to use that one jutsu on him! And that naruto really tossed a wrench in his plans when he beat pain. So I don't think tobi would have needed to rely on Kabuto if pain was not dead.