Osama Bin Laden Dead

[Carnage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M

[Animeniax]

I'll quote a comment on CNN.com: pics or it didn't happen.

If it's true, I wonder if this will make the terrorists more bold or more reserved in the near future. Can you ask your friends, Assassin?

[Carnage]

I doubt this makes any difference in the war on terror if not just makes him look like a martyr. All else barred, the asshole got what he deserved, thats for sure. I heard it was a bullet to the head? CNN says they used DNA testing to prove its him.

[Lucifus]

AMERICA FUCK YEA!

[Buffalobiian]

I doubt this makes any difference in the war on terror if not just makes him look like a martyr. All else barred, the asshole got what he deserved, thats for sure. I heard it was a bullet to the head? CNN says they used DNA testing to prove its him.

That requires them to have access to other DNA samples to compare to. If his parents or other close relative gave permission to use theirs as a comparison it would work, though in my mind it's still short of "proving" that it's Bin Laden.

[Carnage]

That requires them to have access to other DNA samples to compare to. If his parents or other close relative gave permission to use theirs as a comparison it would work, though in my mind it's still short of "proving" that it's Bin Laden.

There are many Bin Laden's with close ties to the U.S. Osama came from one of the wealthiest families of Saudi Arabia, and broke off as a renegade (I think). There were many Bin Ladens that attended Harvard in fact.

[Buffalobiian]

What I'm saying is that the only 100% confirmation we can have is for the body's DNA to match the DNA sample of someone confirmed to be Osama Bin Laden.

Using relatives as comparisons, you can prove the relationship of the sample to that person, but one can not fully be certain (think of long lost twins, illegitimate children of the parent etc) unless it's a 100% match and not a derived answer based on assumptions or "facts".

eg: Daddy Bin Laden has 2 sons. The 2 sons of different DNA. Sample DNA is not that of Good-Boy Bin Laden, but is the son of Daddy Bin Laden. Sample DNA must be Osama Bin Laden.

I'm just being picky here at what's "proof", not to say that whatever method of proof the US decided to use is not good enough for me.

[Animeniax]

Someone photoshop this so it looks like he's smoking a fattie:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/02/bin.laden.raid/story.osama.obit.one.afp.gi.jpg

Reading some details, they are a bit sketchy. Shot in the face = decoy pawn = Osama is still alive, like Elvis.

[Kraco]

He was already an old man probably tired of running like a coward all the time, so chances are it was Osama alright.

Good riddance.

[enkoujin]

Sobre satisfaction, but things are really going to get dicey from here on.

Things are probably going to get several times worse than it has with the Qur'an burning.

[Animeniax]

Weird, no one, including myself, noticed I typo'd "Obama is still alive, like Elvis". My bad. I meant Osama of course. I'm voting for Obama in 2012, if I vote.

[Sapphire]

I noticed, but I didn't want to be rude.

[Animeniax]

It wouldn't have been rude. I take criticism from intelligent people very well.

[Kraco]

Weird, no one, including myself, noticed I typo'd "Obama is still alive, like Elvis". My bad. I meant Osama of course. I'm voting for Obama in 2012, if I vote.

Those two names are too close to each other to be convenient. When I wrote a comment to a newspaper article elsewhere, I read my bloody post five times before submitting to make sure I got them correctly, and not vice versa.

[Dark Dragon]

Well apparently it happens quite often. About 4 people i know made this mistake on Facebook, some of them were pretty late to the story and there were some confused people that thought "Obama is dead".

[Buffalobiian]

I just heard my brother pronounce Osama as Ou-sama.

[Xelbair]

Shot in the face, eh? Great way to cover up if it was really him.
DNA testing? everything Buff said + the fact that even if it wasn't him it is so good propaganda opportunity.

There is nearly 100% chance that he left instructions in case of his death(if its true), plus they are bound to have other iconic(and possibly intelligent) people to continue his 'work', also they now have a nice martyr and another reason to fight.

[Sapphire]

I sure hope not.

[Carnage]

I dont see why its so doubtful that America caught the world's most wanted terrorist with an $800 billion annual military budget.

[Assertn]

http://i.imgur.com/1krKD.png

[Animeniax]

I dont see why its so doubtful that America caught the world's most wanted terrorist with an $800 billion annual military budget.
See Assertn's picture above. It took 10 years to find brown Waldo.

I think he's alive and well. He got tired of being "in hiding" so he and his CIA handlers cooked up this scheme to produce a corpse for the masses.

[Carnage]

See Assertn's picture above. It took 10 years to find brown Waldo.

I think he's alive and well. He got tired of being "in hiding" so he and his CIA handlers cooked up this scheme to produce a corpse for the masses.

Of course of course! Fuck me I forgot to put on my tinfoil hat

[UChessmaster]

Incredible what Americans can do when Playstation Network is down.

[Dark Dragon]

I seriously doubt the American military was spending the last 10 years actively looking for Osama. It's probably something more along the line of they keep tab on where he is and finally got a good chance at capturing him alive. I think this was more an attempt to capture him that just ended up failing.

Also, it's not really important whether he's actually dead or alive. The symbolism of the US capturing or killing him was what is important to the American people. He had created enough fake double that even if the real Osama was actually alive and surface after this, he can be disregard as a fake.

[Animeniax]

Of course of course! Fuck me I forgot to put on my tinfoil hat

I'm all for that. Fuck you!


I seriously doubt the American military was spending the last 10 years actively looking for Osama. It's probably something more along the line of they keep tab on where he is and finally got a good chance at capturing him alive. I think this was more an attempt to capture him that just ended up failing.
40 Navy SEALs infiltrated the place, and they couldn't take him alive? Did he have a steak knife to hold them at bay?

They shot him in the face. They couldn't just wing him? These are expert marksmen we're talking about here.

[UChessmaster]

Do you know all the details regarding how it went down? i don`t but if he for example, picked up a machine gun and fired at everyone`s ass or in exchange he had a lot of people on his side, getting him alive might not be as easy as you`re making it out to be.

[Animeniax]

He was at a mansion in Attotabad in Pakistan. I've read they were sitting down to dinner, though that might be from some sitcom my mind is muddled right now. Not sure how many AKs they had laying around near the dinner table.

edit: Shit, someone gave me neg rep for hinting that Osama is still alive and that this was a CIA cover-plot. I might be on to something. If I suddenly stop posting forever, remember me well.

[enkoujin]

Why would the US government want to take him alive in the first place?

He's a potential hazard everywhere he goes. There are cases of home-grown terrorists in the US and Canada. There exists possibilities of people rescuing him if they brought him to trial in the US, despite how slim they might be and his capture/detainment would only anger the Islamic extremists.

Assassinating him was the best course of action, along with the DNA-testings and the proper Muslim burial to avoid any shrine establishments and more insult to Islamic beliefs.

[Kraco]

Considering there were no American casualties, I'd say they rather played it very safe than risked anything to capture him alive. Like enkoujin said, a long trial would have only put a tightening noose around the necks of some radicals who would have wanted to try to rescue him. But with Osama dead, the terrorists can talk shit about revenge all they want, like they always do, but aren't actually pressured to do anything since there's no deadline (that is, no impending execution).

[Carnage]

Actually I have to agree with Animeniax, there are many practical reasons to keep him alive, mostly for gathering intel from torturing him. I suppose the only reason (aside making this a clean mission) to kill him now is so that we could SAY that he's dead, and there'd be no possible way for the info to leak that we're holding him because that'd look pretty bad.

[Edort4]

"Justice has been done" Oh man, how low have you fallen old blind lady justice.

Even some 3rd rate country like Iraq made a trial for Saddam (the outcome was clear but they tried to at least look civilized) and the worlds proudest "democracy" just shoot they guy in the face. And later dispose off the body in the middle of the sea. Not even allowing his family (close friends of Bush and some other VIPS) to see him? mourn him?

How they handled all this doesnt seem right to me and things smell fishy.

All that said I'm glad that we have one less easy trigger maniac left in the world.

[UChessmaster]

He was at a mansion in Attotabad in Pakistan. I've read they were sitting down to dinner, though that might be from some sitcom my mind is muddled right now. Not sure how many AKs they had laying around near the dinner table.

If i was Osama, i would have several AKs near the dinner table, just saying.

[Kraco]

We aren't living in a movie, Edort. It's not so easy to capture alive an armed man with the will to die fighting. Especially when he's surrounded by similarly minded fanatics. No blasters to set to stun in this world - at least not yet. As opposed to that Saddam was hiding in some potato cellar and the only danger in getting him out alive was the bad smell.

If the man wanted a proper burial and grave, he should have thought about it before becoming the most wanted terrorist. Can't presume to have both, really.

[Animeniax]

Actually I have to agree with Animeniax, there are many practical reasons to keep him alive, mostly for gathering intel from torturing him. I suppose the only reason (aside making this a clean mission) to kill him now is so that we could SAY that he's dead, and there'd be no possible way for the info to leak that we're holding him because that'd look pretty bad.

I have to take a step back and agree with enkoujin, keeping him alive would be tricky, and his people would act to free him, and he'd become an international focal point for the handling of terrorists. So if he is alive, it's better to make people think he's dead. Then we can torture him for intel at our own pace.

I hadn't thought of that angle. I thought more along the lines that the US was still handling Bin Laden, as he was a CIA agent, so they faked his death so he could get out of the limelight.

For either reason, burial at sea is a great way to hide evidence.

[darkshadow]

Perhaps its both, they killed some fake and captured the real one. Make everyone believe he's dead so they can extract intel out of him at their own pace, and then dispose of him without any legal repercussions.

[Animeniax]

Perhaps its both, they killed some fake and captured the real one. Make everyone believe he's dead so they can extract intel out of him at their own pace, and then dispose of him without any legal repercussions.

Well conspiracy theorists believe he's on the US payroll so the coverup is to make people think he's dead so he can get back to living.


If i was Osama, i would have several AKs near the dinner table, just saying. He'd been living there for several months according to reports. He'd have let his guard down and stopped bringing AKs to the table.

[Xelbair]

Oh, so killing their leader and giving them another Martyr for Faith(tm) was a good idea?
there were no good options there - it was only evil, and lesser evil - we'll see in future if this choice was better.

[Kraco]

Well conspiracy theorists believe he's on the US payroll so the coverup is to make people think he's dead so he can get back to living.

Considering how CIA has been of late (that is, ever after the cold war ended), I think imagining Osama their agent would be giving CIA far too much credit.

[Carnage]

Considering how CIA has been of late (that is, ever after the cold war ended), I think imagining Osama their agent would be giving CIA far too much credit.

Or that's what they want you to think...dun dun dun...

[Animeniax]

Or that's what they want you to think...dun dun dun...

As Paul Muad'dib said it, "I see plans within plans."

[rockmanj]

As Paul Muad'dib said it, "I see plans within plans."

Way to take it to warp 5...nerd dimension.

[Animeniax]

Way to take it to warp 5...nerd dimension.

I saw that coming... I see everything coming.

[Assassin]

I'll quote a comment on CNN.com: pics or it didn't happen.

If it's true, I wonder if this will make the terrorists more bold or more reserved in the near future. Can you ask your friends, Assassin?

I'd stay away from crowded metropolitan cities for a while. just sayin'.

As for this whole thing, as a pakistani who's seen news from both sides (both in reference to this event, and just in general through out the years), heres what i believe. Osama is dead. The US did not kill him. He's been on dialysis since like 2000 (confirmed by a CIA field agent who visited him in a UAE hospital in the summer of 200 i believe), he's been "killed" atleast 4 different times in the past decade, and he was like 112 years old.

He probably died of natural causes, or was close to death. The US likely knew of his whereabouts for more then the 6 months they claim. They decided since he's dead/about to die, mite as well make him useful one last time. Obama gains an approval rating, the whole birth certificate thing is forgotten, and no one cares about YET ANOTHER illegal war in an arab country. Not to mention the planned exit from Afghanistan in 3 months time. How convenient.

Oh and isn't it election season pretty soon in the land of the free?

In anycase, he's dead and some fat black guy will still shove his had up your ass (or more likely my ass) at the airport to check for bombs. Life goes on.

[enkoujin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xun9UYCO7es

[UChessmaster]

He'd been living there for several months according to reports. He'd have let his guard down and stopped bringing AKs to the table.

But... why? is not as if the USA stopped looking for him, is there a deadline or something? "ops it`s been several months now, better get rid of all these weapons".

[Animeniax]

But... why? is not as if the USA stopped looking for him, is there a deadline or something? "ops it`s been several months now, better get rid of all these weapons".

He's been hiding for 10 years now. He was in a small town in Pakistan in a secure compound with armed guards and 10 foot walls while the US was busy looking for him in the mountains of Afghanistan. People get complacent and drop their guard.

[dragonrage]

I'd stay away from crowded metropolitan cities for a while. just sayin'.

.......


Do you know something we don't or are you giving us a heads' up for old time sake?

[rockmanj]

Do you know something we don't or are you giving us a heads' up for old time sake?

There was mention of attacking trains, but I don't know where.

[Animeniax]

But... why? is not as if the USA stopped looking for him, is there a deadline or something? "ops it`s been several months now, better get rid of all these weapons".
It's been confirmed, one of the facts of the missions: Bin Laden was unarmed.

CNN article (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-03/world/bin.laden.dead_1_bin-senior-government-official-cia-director-leon-panetta?_s=PM:WORLD)

[Ryllharu]

I'm not sure what tone you meant this in, but I'll respond anyway.


It's been confirmed, one of the facts of the missions: Bin Laden was unarmed.
I was not aware that he or his organization ceased hostilities against the US and US forces abroad, so he wasn't covered by the Geneva Conventions. He was treated with (relative) dignity, and was not subject to particular humiliating and degrading treatment. They shot him in the head, got some DNA samples, and buried him at sea, reportedly treated to Islamic practice and tradition.

I can't find anything about what types of bullets the SEALs used, but they did not likely use hollow-points, so the operation should have been within the Hague Conventions as well.

Armed or unarmed, he reportedly did not surrender, making him still a combatant. Can you really martyr someone who was believed to have been on the run for years fighting his "good fight," but was actually living in comfort?

[Carnage]

Can you really martyr someone who was believed to have been on the run for years fighting his "good fight," but was actually living in comfort?


Considering the outlash from several groups of people in the middle east, yes?

[Animeniax]

I'm not sure what tone you meant this in, but I'll respond anyway.

I was not aware that he or his organization ceased hostilities against the US and US forces abroad, so he wasn't covered by the Geneva Conventions. He was treated with (relative) dignity, and was not subject to particular humiliating and degrading treatment. They shot him in the head, got some DNA samples, and buried him at sea, reportedly treated to Islamic practice and tradition.

I can't find anything about what types of bullets the SEALs used, but they did not likely use hollow-points, so the operation should have been within the Hague Conventions as well.

Armed or unarmed, he reportedly did not surrender, making him still a combatant. Can you really martyr someone who was believed to have been on the run for years fighting his "good fight," but was actually living in comfort?
That wasn't the dispute. He contended that Bin Laden was armed so he had to be shot in the face. I said he most likely let his guard down due to complacency and probably didn't have a weapon at hand when the specops arrived.