Naruto Shippuuden Episode 205 [Canon]

[Penner]

[HorribleSubs] Naruto Shippuuden 205 - 720p: Torrent (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=202983) | DDL (http://www.fileserve.com/file/kfEK2Fy/%5BHorribleSubs%5D%20Naruto%20Shippuuden%20-%20205%20%5B720p%5D.mkv)
[HorribleSubs] Naruto Shippuuden 205 - 480p: Torrent (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=202982) | DDL (http://www.fileserve.com/file/XtQP8Tt/%5BHorribleSubs%5D%20Naruto%20Shippuuden%20-%20205%20%5B480p%5D.mkv)

Sweet, got to learn a bunch of new stuff from Madara (as usual lol)

And i also thought the animation and even the picture-quality itself was better than usual... dunno :P

[Buffalobiian]

The whole snowy atmosphere of the Land of Iron's been pretty good so far. It gives everything a nice bleak feeling instead of the usual colourful world of Naruto.

I'm sitting on the fence between whether Sakura is just saying that she doesn't need Naruto to go after Sasuke anymore, or whether she'll give him an outright confession.

Kakashi's pretty much the only worthy candidate for Hokage at the moment. Only his laid-back attitude and limited stamina's holding him back.

[ASSpirine]

Hmm, Killer Bee against Kisame, sounds good.
Too bad it will be ruined by the weepy Sakura moment...

[Kraco]

A nice episode. I agree on the snowy country fitting the atmosphere of all that's going on right now. I'm still not sure why Madara is doing what he is. There was no chance the villages would have agreed to handing him the rest of the beasts or surrendering to his (claimed) plan. So, why did he tell them anything? Talking to Naruto makes now even more sense if Madara himself indeed is weaker. It could serve to lessen the pressure from Naruto to Sasuke. But talking the council serves no purpose. Even a declaration of war sounds very unfitting for ninja. He basically only managed to unite the villages. Maybe that was his ultimate aim, for whatever purposes.

I haven't been much liking Sakura ever (aside form the rather pleasant character design) but now I'm actually looking forward to her and Naruto's scene in the next ep. The scene between her and Sai was so good that it must be carried over to the conclusion.

[DarthEnderX]

So much awesome shit!

There's a ten tails?! I love how it had like a combine Sharingan/Rinnigen eye! I wonder if the statue that Madara uses to store the tailed beasts is actually what the 10-tails used to look like. It looks like it has a bunch of broken tails on its back.

Madara's Sharingan power looks sweet in action. It's like Kakashi's but it actually goes somewhere(or maybe Kakashi's also goes somewhere, he just doesn't know where).

So much cooool backstory.

[Buffalobiian]

There's a ten tails?! I love how it had like a combine Sharingan/Rinnigen eye! I wonder if the statue that Madara uses to store the tailed beasts is actually what the 10-tails used to look like. It looks like it has a bunch of broken tails on its back.

Undoubtedly so I think.


Madara's Sharingan power looks sweet in action. It's like Kakashi's but it actually goes somewhere(or maybe Kakashi's also goes somewhere, he just doesn't know where).



And he doesn't take 2 episodes to aim with it.

[DarthEnderX]

The Ten Tail's ShaRinnegan also makes me more confident in my notion that the Sage had one set of everything-in-one eyes that eventually got diluted into different eyes among his descendants.



And he doesn't take 2 episodes to aim with it.Well, even Kakashi doesn't do that anymore. He did that nail pretty much instantaneously.

I assume it gets faster with practice. But Kakashi will probably go blind before he gets really proficient with it.

Madara's Eternal Mangekyou probably let him train with it till it till he mastered it.

I wonder if the thing where he phases though attacks is the power his other eye has, or if it's the same eye, or if it's an unrelated jutsu.

[MFauli]

Really? The "awesome" ten-tails? I remember when it was in the manga, and, rightfully so, most hated it. Such a stupid revelation :/

[DarthEnderX]

Who gives a shit? It's an awesome prehistoric monster that you know we're never even gonna see in the series because Naruto would have to lose the Nine-tails for it to come back and if that ever happened, the series would be over, cause the main character would lose half his cool powers.

It's like a series that has a bunch of dragons in it and the Big Bad reveals his secret plan to revive Tiamat.

A.K.A. Awesome

Also, finding out the Sage really DID make the moon and why.

[Buffalobiian]

Exactl how reliant is Naruto on the kyuubi's chakra now though? The 4th redid the seal, to technically he should be able to reap more rewards from it without having it control him back on the lower levels, but with Sage mode and all that now, it doesn't seem like he'll need it.

Sage mode required a heap of your own chakra reserve to be effective so that the natural chakra doesn't take over your own, and the frogs couldn't help him out in gathering it because the fox was in the way. That all seems to suggest that Naruto himself is now pretty much fine without the fox.

[Sam98034]

I think the Fox still provides him with some chakra reserves and healing. And I'm guessing the 10-tails body is at the center of the moon and the Sage did what Pain did trapping the Fox but on a much huger scale.

[DarthEnderX]

Exactl how reliant is Naruto on the kyuubi's chakra now though? The 4th redid the seal, to technically he should be able to reap more rewards from it without having it control him back on the lower levels, but with Sage mode and all that now, it doesn't seem like he'll need it.

Sage mode required a heap of your own chakra reserve to be effective so that the natural chakra doesn't take over your own, and the frogs couldn't help him out in gathering it because the fox was in the way. That all seems to suggest that Naruto himself is now pretty much fine without the fox.Well, considering even with Sage mode, he'd have lost against Pain without his usual Ninetails freakout...and the guys he fights are probably only going to get stronger as the series goes on, I doubt he'll ever be able to afford to get rid of it, unless it's the very end of the series.

I think it's more likely he'll just end up learning to control it better. All this talk lately about how Killer Bee is like the perfect Jinchuuriki and how he gets along with the Eighttails makes me think they need to have that guy train Naruto.


I think the Fox still provides him with some chakra reserves and healing. And I'm guessing the 10-tails body is at the center of the moon and the Sage did what Pain did trapping the Fox but on a much huger scale.That seems like a fairly safe assumption. I didn't think Madara meant the Tentail's body literally BECAME the moon.

I'm guessing some poor minor continent somewhere had to be sacrificed in order to make the Tentail's tomb.

[Buffalobiian]

Well, considering even with Sage mode, he'd have lost against Pain without his usual Ninetails freakout...and the guys he fights are probably only going to get stronger as the series goes on, I doubt he'll ever be able to afford to get rid of it, unless it's the very end of the series.

Only issue here is that since the beginning of Shippuuden, Naruto's whole basis was to never use the fox's chakra. The seal was redone so the fox can't sneek its way out, but if it's just the same seal it'll weaken over the next 16 years again. Naruto took the Sage mode route since he needed a chakra source that he can control. If it's sheer chakra he needed, the Kyuubi has plenty.


I think it's more likely he'll just end up learning to control it better. All this talk lately about how Killer Bee is like the perfect Jinchuuriki and how he gets along with the Eighttails makes me think they need to have that guy train Naruto.

I think it's more the partnership between the beast and the host, more than anything. Killer Bee's octopus could actually talk to him and lend him power without trying to take over him. They're like best buds. In comparison, all the kyuubi ever wanted was for Naruto to rip off its seal. Rather than training, I'd say a more apt term would be taming (if that's even possible).

[DarthEnderX]

Only issue here is that since the beginning of Shippuuden, Naruto's whole basis was to never use the fox's chakra. The seal was redone so the fox can't sneek its way out, but if it's just the same seal it'll weaken over the next 16 years again. Naruto took the Sage mode route since he needed a chakra source that he can control. If it's sheer chakra he needed, the Kyuubi has plenty. I think your overestimating what the 4th did in Naruto's head. I seemed to me that he just closed the seal to end that rampage, he didn't recast the seal like he did originally. It's in the same state now that it was before he lost control fighting Pain.

The simple fact is, Sage Mode chakra wasn't enough to beat Pain on it's own, it's probably not going to be enough to beat Madara, or Sasuke by the time Naruto fights him again. And when Naruto has to access the Kyuubi's power again, the seal will break down again unless he does something about it in the meantime.

The only way I can see Naruto losing the Ninetails is if this course of events happens:

Madara collects all nine beasts. Naruto somehow survives the extraction. Madara awakens the Tentails. Madara is defeated before he can Seal the Tentails. Naruto seals the Tentails inside himself to stop it.


I think it's more the partnership between the beast and the host, more than anything. Killer Bee's octopus could actually talk to him and lend him power without trying to take over him. They're like best buds. In comparison, all the kyuubi ever wanted was for Naruto to rip off its seal. Rather than training, I'd say a more apt term would be taming (if that's even possible).Well that's what I mean by training. That Killer Bee would teach him how to communicate with the Kyuubi and they could maybe create a similar relationship.

You seem to be implying that Bee gets along with Eighttails because Eighttails is a cool guy while Kyuubi is a dickhole. I was under the impression that all the Tailed Beasts were dickholes originally. Eighttails is only cool now because Bee has taken the time to forge a relationship with it.

[Kraco]

Everything suggests the original Tentails was a nasty demon to begin with so dividing it in parts shouldn't produce any jolly fellows. However, it could still produce different personalities. Eighttails might be more cooperative to gain a bit more freedom for itself. We haven't really seen that much of Ninetails's personality (which is both a good and bad thing), so it's impossible to say whether it would settle for anything but total domination.

However, plot wise I feel like it would be a huge waste if Naruto didn't learn to tap into Kyuubi's power in a controlled (or semi-controlled) manner. Why was he a jinchuuriki to begin with if it only brought him troubles throughout the story? It would also make Fourth a real scumbag in the final judgement.

[DarthEnderX]

Well, I'm going by the personalities of Kyuubi, Shukaku and the Threetails. They were all bastards. Threetails didn't even talk, but then he was all filler. He probably would have talked in the manga.

[SilentSnake]

For Naruto to sway Kyuubi's attitude he'd need to be able to reason with him first.

As far as we know the only thing Kyuubi wants would be complete freedom, it's true eight-tails found a common language with Bee, but I get the impression that if it was possible between Naruto and Kyuubi it would have happened by now.

Not to mention the series would be ruined, for years Kyuubi is uber evil villain and suddenly he gets friends with Naruto? I mean, for real?

Dunno what kind of partial freedom Bee offers to Eight-tails, but I see no way for Naruto to let Kyuubi do ANYTHING but his bidding unless when he loses control over himself and when that happened, he'd hurt friends around him.

Still, Bee might have some useful tips, not everything Jinchuuriki related would have to require friendship with their own beast I guess?

[Kraco]

Not to mention the series would be ruined, for years Kyuubi is uber evil villain and suddenly he gets friends with Naruto? I mean, for real?

Ruined as a stock shounen show, or what? I've been quite pleased with the non-filler portions of Shippuuden and thus for my own part I'd say it would be more like awesome if Naruto managed to strike some sort of deal with Kyuubi, with Kyuubi still remaining an evil monster. A little shady deal would be all the better, but I wouldn't really expect such a thing from Naruto. He won't be sacrificing any virgins to Kyuubi like Oro did to the big snake, no matter what. But I would like him to compromise just a bit. Naturally it would require that Kyuubi takes Naruto seriously, but it would be the high time for that anyway.

[DarthEnderX]

See, we don't really know what Bee did to forge his relationship with Eighttails.

Likewise, we don't actually know much about the Kyuubi other than that he's uberpissed all the time. And he's probably like that because some dick sealed him up inside a baby after some other dick hypnotized him into stomping on a village.

Who knows what Kyuubi wants. For all we know, he might just want some apples.



Not to mention the series would be ruined, for years Kyuubi is uber evil villain and suddenly he gets friends with Naruto? I mean, for real?In what way has Kyuubi ever been an antagonist in this series?

Yeah, he's a big evil demon in the past, but he's not the villain of any of the story arcs of the series. In what way would Naruto and Kyuubi developing a working relationship "ruin the series" when Kyuubi hasn't even DONE anything yet.

It's not even like the Kyuubi's personality takes over when Naruto looses control. Naruto just goes berserk.

[Artris]

I can see the Kyuubi helping Naruto. Specifically I think it may act as the gatherer for Naruto, eventually allowing Naruto permanent sage mode. The reason for it wanting to help Naruto now is that it knows Madara will make it his bitch given the chance. The Kyuubi has no way to fight Madara directly. Helping Naruto may be its best method to secure eventual freedom.

By eventual freedom I mean NOT being combined into the 10-Tails and, perhaps, being freed as Naruto dies or hoping that the next container screws up. Helping Naruto, there is some hope for the Kyuubi.

[DarthEnderX]

By eventual freedom I mean NOT being combined into the 10-TailsAh, now that's a good point. We might not know what Kyuubi wants, but the thing he probably DOESN'T want the most is being melted back down into the Tentails.

That's at least some leverage for Naruto to negotiate with it.

"Yeah, I need some chakra or else your going to end up back inside your demon space dad's testicles."

[SilentSnake]

In what way has Kyuubi ever been an antagonist in this series?

Yeah, he's a big evil demon in the past, but he's not the villain of any of the story arcs of the series. In what way would Naruto and Kyuubi developing a working relationship "ruin the series" when Kyuubi hasn't even DONE anything yet.

Focus on the "gets friends with Naruto" part.

Well, First shots we get in Naruto is the story behind the Kyuubi attack on the village and the mighty 4th hokage defending the village from Kyuubi. I understand that the "real" story behind all this is more complicated, but Naruto befriending Kyuubi would indeed ruin the series for me, because all this time I was led to believe it's 1 thing most evil in this whole Naruto world only to find it get a change of heart.

Don't get me wrong, seeing Kyuubi and Naruto cooperating would be nice, but after Itachi's reveal Kyuubi going "good" would be too much.


It's not even like the Kyuubi's personality takes over when Naruto looses control. Naruto just goes berserk.

You state that like a fact while it's your own assumption. Elaborate if you care enough, but Naruto goes "berserk" for a reason, don't you think?


Ah, now that's a good point. We might not know what Kyuubi wants, but the thing he probably DOESN'T want the most is being melted back down into the Tentails.

That's at least some leverage for Naruto to negotiate with it.

"Yeah, I need some chakra or else your going to end up back inside your demon space dad's testicles."

that'd work

[anime nomad]

... I was led to believe it's 1 thing most evil in this whole Naruto world ...

Evil is forcing a creature into eternal servitude by sealing him into hosts aka the Jincuriki. I'm with darth on this one, for all we know, all the tailed beasts really want is a chance to show the world that they can dance like ballerinas.



You state that like a fact while it's your own assumption. Elaborate if you care enough, but Naruto goes "berserk" for a reason, don't you think?

yea, I'd go mental too if i'd been locked up inside a succession of kids for generations.

all i'm saying is that actually we know so little about what really drives the tailed beasts, perhaps they may even WANT to get reunited into the 10 tails ?!?!

[DarthEnderX]

You state that like a fact while it's your own assumption. Elaborate if you care enough, but Naruto goes "berserk" for a reason, don't you think?I think the evidence bears it out.

After all, we've had more than enough scenes between Shukaku, Eighttails and Kyuubi to show us that the beasts are fully capable of thinking and communicating through speach.

And when Shukaku takes over Gaara, it's fairly obvious that the Shukaku is a creature with it's own personality and motivation. Shukaku actually speaks when he's in control.

But when Naruto loses control it's just "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWRRRR!!!!!!"

Even when fighting Pain when the seal supposedly broke completely, it still didn't seem like Kyuubi had gained control. It just seemed like mindless rage. And while Kyuubi is certainly pretty enraged all the time, he's not mindless.

I think if Kyuubi were really in control during Naruto's rampaging, he might have some things to say, much like he had things to say to Sasuke when he entered Naruto's mind.

[Buffalobiian]

There's a difference between Naruto and Gaara's sealing though.

Gaara's was perfectly intact. Shukaku emerges when Gaara falls asleep, and will disappear again when he wakes up.

The Kyuubi can never really take over Naruto with the full seal intact. It's because the seal's slowly breaking that it can seep through (and from what is implied, it will keep seeping through automatically once 4th tail is reached). A full takeover will mean no turning back in Naruto's case.

But as you have said, why doesn't it show some form of personality prior? Who knows.. maybe they actually can't until a full takeover happens.

[SilentSnake]

After all, we've had more than enough scenes between Shukaku, Eighttails and Kyuubi to show us that the beasts are fully capable of thinking and communicating through speach.

And when Shukaku takes over Gaara, it's fairly obvious that the Shukaku is a creature with it's own personality and motivation. Shukaku actually speaks when he's in control.

But when Naruto loses control it's just "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWRRRR!!!!!!"

Even when fighting Pain when the seal supposedly broke completely, it still didn't seem like Kyuubi had gained control. It just seemed like mindless rage. And while Kyuubi is certainly pretty enraged all the time, he's not mindless.

I think if Kyuubi were really in control during Naruto's rampaging, he might have some things to say, much like he had things to say to Sasuke when he entered Naruto's mind.

We don't know what would Kyuubi do, but Shukaku still went on a rampage, but just talking along the way :p

Still, Kyuubi's/Shukaku's chakra/personality influence Jinchuurikis in a way that they go wacko the moment they are partially transformed, as seen in both Gaara's (fights with Sasuke) and Naruto's (many times) cases.

I don't really know what we argue about anymore, it seems kind of obvious that tailed beasts got minds of their own, but it still doesn't change the fact that they're evil and given any kind of freedom, they wrought havoc.

There's many "maybes" here, you write about Pain fight but you forget that 4th stopped Naruto's hand so the seal never really broke completely, but at the same time we're inclined to believe that since Yamato's hand showed 9 tails + what looked all Kyuubi broke free from Pain's prison. On the other hand he didn't really have any chance to speak because of all the things that happened inside Naruto at the time.

Kyuubi is not a mindless beast and would probably have his own agenda after freeing himself, but that still doesn't change the fact he's a monster.

This discussion goes a bit off, so let's just focus on what we actually disagreed upon:

Will Naruto get friends with Kyuubi 8tails style? Doubtful.

Can they have some shady cooperation? Yep.

[DarthEnderX]

But as you have said, why doesn't it show some form of personality prior? Who knows.. maybe they actually can't until a full takeover happens.That's the point I was trying to make. That because Naruto's seal doesn't allow Kyuubi's personality to come out, we don't really know what Kyuubi is like when he's free. That the only time in the series we've seen him free, he was under Madara's control.



but it still doesn't change the fact that they're evil and given any kind of freedom, they wrought havoc.
Really? What kind of havoc was the Threetails causing before Akatsuki captured it? Even in the manga it just seemed to be chilling out in a lake.



I don't really know what we argue about anymoreI dunno, but I'm actually enjoying being able to have a discussion about something. There's so little of it these days since the majority of the people on the board are manga readers now.

[SilentSnake]

Really? What kind of havoc was the Threetails causing before Akatsuki captured it? Even in the manga it just seemed to be chilling out in a lake.

We saw only a glimpse of the fight and again, saying that it was chilling out in a lake is your own assumption treated like a foolproof fact. We don't know much about it, bad example of proving anything in general.


I dunno, but I'm actually enjoying being able to have a discussion about something. There's so little of it these days since the majority of the people on the board are manga readers now.

True, I'm a reader too :p cba watching fillers and waiting for the thing to come back canon every now and then.

[DarthEnderX]

saying that it was chilling out in a lake is your own assumption treated like a foolproof fact.No actually, it really isn't. Hence my use of the word "seemed".