Naruto Shippuuden Episode 203 [Canon]

[Marik]

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[ASSpirine]

Somebody else felt they put a hommage to Casey Heynes in the episode? :P

Nice ep again, too bad of the overkill of the sharingan yet again. Next ep with the mizukage in action

[Kraco]

At least we now know Sasuke decided to fight everybody and their cousins because he needed to see if it's possible and to test his new techniques. Not that different from the (fake) reason Itachi gave him a long time ago. Fell deeds run in the family heavily. Much like Madara said.

A jolly good ep to say the least, though it left me wondering what Madara's objective was in talking with Naruto and telling all that. To lessen Naruto's hopes? To make himself more familiar to Naruto so that if they meet again, Naruto might hesitate for half a second longer?

[Cal_kashi]

Assuming the third knew the true history of the leaf, why did he pair Naruto and Sasuke on Team 7? The way Madara puts it, that's like having a cobra, a mongoose and a flamingo team up. I wonder what will happen when they become powerful.

[TNTxTNT]

I can't really remember Sasuke's fight with Itachi that well. Didn't Itachi has some sort of guardian like that? Was that the same thing as Sasuke's? What are all these "mangekyou levels"? And weren't you supposed to kill your friend a little while ago?

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Sasuke is pretty F'in crazy to be challenged by that many people and just act like it is nothing.

[Killa-Eyez]

Not what's cooler than being cool?

Dope ep, it's been a long time since I've been yearning for the next one. I don't know if the Raikage's dumb or just a real bad ass relying on brute strength but losing his arm seemed pretty stupid. And I don't get Gaara either, he already had trouble defeating Sasuke as a Jinchuuriki and now he wants to take on his Mangekyou Sharingan? Deathwish. But somebody will probably intervene again. Can't wait!

[Buffalobiian]

Assuming the third knew the true history of the leaf, why did he pair Naruto and Sasuke on Team 7? The way Madara puts it, that's like having a cobra, a mongoose and a flamingo team up. I wonder what will happen when they become powerful.

It's not too different from the Sannin matchup. I guess the Third was facilitating the reunion if he did have the history in his head. You can't expect them to make up afterwards unless they were friends to begin with.


I can't really remember Sasuke's fight with Itachi that well. Didn't Itachi has some sort of guardian like that? Was that the same thing as Sasuke's? What are all these "mangekyou levels"? And weren't you supposed to kill your friend a little while ago?

Itachi transferred his powers to Sasuke before he died. That's why Sasuke has the exact powers as him pretty much (with some personal variation). The levels referred to are as Itachi described. When one unlocks both the M.Sharingans in their eyes, the third power becomes active. Unlocking Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi grants you the ability to use Susano'o.


Dope ep, it's been a long time since I've been yearning for the next one. I don't know if the Raikage's dumb or just a real bad ass relying on brute strength but losing his arm seemed pretty stupid. And I don't get Gaara either, he already had trouble defeating Sasuke as a Jinchuuriki and now he wants to take on his Mangekyou Sharingan? Deathwish. But somebody will probably intervene again. Can't wait!

You know what's dumber? The killing power of Amaterasu the way it's been portrayed here.

Arm got burned? Fight now, cut later.

Armour got burned? Wait now, take it off later.

That shit's meant to be one-hit-kill, right? Flames that burn forever... now they're making it out like they're burning forever cuz they never finish burning whatever it is they're trying to burn. :S

Don't forget that it's meant to be hotter than the sun. Yeah riiight.

[Killa-Eyez]

...

You know what's dumber? The killing power of Amaterasu the way it's been portrayed here.

Arm got burned? Fight now, cut later.

Armour got burned? Wait now, take it off later.

That shit's meant to be one-hit-kill, right? Flames that burn forever... now they're making it out like they're burning forever cuz they never finish burning whatever it is they're trying to burn. :S

Don't forget that it's meant to be hotter than the sun. Yeah riiight.

X-actly. It's like a bad case of sticky ferro-jizz that just.. WON'T.. COME.. OFF! Oh well, off with the arm and gimme a sec to heal.

[Sam98034]

I thought Amaterasu was just meant to consume whatever it was focused on, and there's no stopping it.

[DarthEnderX]

I always love hearing history about the ninja world. Every time Madara talks man, he tells a little more. He's Mr. Exposition.


I don't have a problem with how their portraying Amaterasu in this fight. It's exactly the same as it is when Itachi used it on Sasuke. He hit Sasuke in the wing with it, but Sasuke had the time to pretend to burn up and shed his skin without taking any real damage.

The fact that it cost a Kage an arm seems more than powerful enough to me.


I can't really remember Sasuke's fight with Itachi that well. Didn't Itachi has some sort of guardian like that? Was that the same thing as Sasuke's? What are all these "mangekyou levels"? And weren't you supposed to kill your friend a little while ago?He did. His Magekyou awakened when he realized, after he had killed him, that his best friend was actually Itachi.


Assuming the third knew the true history of the leaf, why did he pair Naruto and Sasuke on Team 7? The way Madara puts it, that's like having a cobra, a mongoose and a flamingo team up. I wonder what will happen when they become powerful.Well, keep in mind that they didn't know Madara was alive, and that they knew Itachi didn't want Sasuke to follow the path of the Uchiha.

So bearing that in mind, how would Sasuke have reached this point? Even though he was consumed by vengeance, Itachi would have died letting Sasuke think he was the bad guy and, if Madara hadn't told him about Itachi and their Clan's history, Sasuke would probably be back with the Leaf by now, having successfully completed his lifelong ambition.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought Amaterasu was just meant to consume whatever it was focused on, and there's no stopping it.

That's what it's meant to be, yeah.


I don't have a problem with how their portraying Amaterasu in this fight. It's exactly the same as it is when Itachi used it on Sasuke. He hit Sasuke in the wing with it, but Sasuke had the time to pretend to burn up and shed his skin without taking any real damage.

I was alright with that case (sort of) since he actually got away from it. (You can pass it off like he shed his skin just as Amaterasu began to burn the skin). I don't remember Sasuke actually fighting while still being burned.


He did. His Magekyou awakened when he realized, after he had killed him, that his best friend was actually Itachi.

Sasuke's bleeding from is eyes and is growing more blind by the minute. Kakashi (I would asume) only used his technique a few times and already noted its effects on his vision. For such a price, it's not holding itself as some godly power in my books.

Did they just say that the Sharingan came from the Rinnegan? LOL. In the first series it was stated that the Sharingan was a variation of the Byakugan. Kishi Madara rewrites history yet again...

[DarthEnderX]

Sasuke's bleeding from is eyes and is growing more blind by the minute. Kakashi (I would asume) only used his technique a few times and already noted its effects on his vision. For such a price, it's not holding itself as some godly power in my books. That's what the Eternal Mangekyou is for. All the powers none of the drawbacks. I'm sure once Sasuke goes blind enough he'll end up taking his brothers eyes.


Did they just say that the Sharingan came from the Rinnegan? LOL. In the first series it was stated that the Sharingan was a variation of the Byakugan.I thought it was the other way around. Either way, it kind of makes sense for there to have been one guy with Ultimate eyes in the past, and all current eye techniques are just diluted versions of his.

I mean, they also said he was able to use all 5(6) types of Element manipulation. Now adays, being able to mix just two elements is considered a powerful Bloodline Limit.

They already said the Sage created all the Ninjutsu in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if he also had all the Bloodline Limits. And over the generations all of his powers just ended up spread out amongst his descendants. Which could be every ninja in the world for all we know.


Kishi Madara rewrites history yet again...I'm not ready to jump to that conclusion yet. Considering how much of the ninja world seems based on lies, it's entirely possible that the person that told us that just didn't know the truth.

Or that Madara is lying now. He is a bad guy after all.

[Buffalobiian]

I mean, they also said he was able to use all 5(6) types of Element manipulation. Now adays, being able to mix just two elements is considered a powerful Bloodline Limit.

What was the conclusion we reached ages ago? I never considered "the Six Paths" to be "the Six Elements".

[Artris]

That's what the Eternal Mangekyou is for. All the powers none of the drawbacks. I'm sure once Sasuke goes blind enough he'll end up taking his brothers eyes.

I'm rather curious if I missed something. I think we all agree that Itachi is dead. Sasuke said his brother had seen enough of the world, and refused the eyes after the battle. Maybe Madara has Itachi on ice somewhere? Does Sasuke carry the eyes around in a little jar for luck?

I was really surprised to see a Kage cutting off his arm after dealing with Sasuke, and still having not finished the job. I suppose it was inevitable, given Naruto's recent power up.

[Kraco]

I was really surprised to see a Kage cutting off his arm after dealing with Sasuke, and still having not finished the job. I suppose it was inevitable, given Naruto's recent power up.

Yeah, I doubt any of these kages could have beaten Pain. Sasuke should be able to fight a few and survive the ordeal.

[Jessper]

I'm rather curious if I missed something. I think we all agree that Itachi is dead. Sasuke said his brother had seen enough of the world, and refused the eyes after the battle. Maybe Madara has Itachi on ice somewhere? Does Sasuke carry the eyes around in a little jar for luck?

Madara mentioned going to collect the eyes (maybe they said the body, but that could have been the only thing they really cared about) after the fight, him and Zetsu had to do it before the Leaf ninja got to where the fight had gone down. I'm guessing that yes, they are on ice somewhere.

[Penner]

Ahh man this is some good shit! This is almost on One Piece levels of good, almost :P

I really doubt Sasuke can take down all of the kages tho... but i don't know what that Susano'o thing does, other than give him near-immunity to all forms of damage -.-

[DarthEnderX]

Itachi's Susano'o carried a couple unique artifacts of a sword and shield.

Sasuke's doesn't have any, so presumably, it's just a barrier?

[ASSpirine]

I think it was during the Chuunin exams after the forest part that they had to battle between each other. When Neji and Hinata were battling, I think Lee or Kakashi mentioned that the sharingan was an evolution of the byakugan, but not necessarilly stronger. But I don't think they ever said it was 100% accurate. It was probably an old wives tale.

[DayoftheDante]

Sasuke's matched or exceeded every ability Itachi had. He's gonna pull out that sword and shield too, no reason to think Itachi didn't pass those on with his other powers. I'm liking his new development, he's always been the angsty one but usually went nonlethal. He seems to be cutting people down in earnest now. I guess it's unlikely he'll mow down some named characters since they just got properly introduced, but hey why not--he's gonna be on trial for war crimes anyway for attacking the summit, why fuck around now? At any rate he's gonna tax the hell out of his eyes in the upcoming fights, and Madara will probably offer him Itachi's eyes before he sics him on Naruto for their final round.

The byakugan thing threw me off too, we were told sharingan was the evolution of byakugan but that's obviously backwards if the two original lines were Sharingan and Mokuton users.

If Naruto is a Senju descendant, we'll need more backstory on his parents to explain the link, and that's a win-win whichever side he gets it from.

[DarthEnderX]

I think it was during the Chuunin exams after the forest part that they had to battle between each other. When Neji and Hinata were battling, I think Lee or Kakashi mentioned that the sharingan was an evolution of the byakugan, but not necessarilly stronger. But I don't think they ever said it was 100% accurate. It was probably an old wives tale.Well, considering Kakashi thinks the Sage of the Six Paths is a myth too, and since we know from Jiraiya that he's not, it gives the impression that Kakashi isn't very well informed about ninja history.

It makes sense from a political standpoint as well. If the Hyuuga are powerful nobles in the village while the Uchiha are borderline outcasts, it would make sense for them to spread around the story that the Sharingan is just a mutation in the Byakugan.



If Naruto is a Senju descendant, we'll need more backstory on his parents to explain the link, and that's a win-win whichever side he gets it from.I don't think Madara was implying that Naruto was a descendant of the Senju.

It's not the blood that Naruto has inhierited from the First, it's a Hokage's Will of Fire. The confrontation between Naruto and Sasuke he's hoping for isn't one of Senju vs. Uchiha, it's one of Hokage vs. Uchiha.

[Kraco]

Sasuke's matched or exceeded every ability Itachi had.

Personally I think Sasuke still has a long way to go to reach Itachi's level of genjutsu.

[ASSpirine]

Personally I think Sasuke still has a long way to go to reach Itachi's level of genjutsu.

Sasuke just got his genjutsu as a present. He hasn't mastered it to have his own mangekyou

[kmkze04]

Somehow I get the feeling Naruto and Sasuke will face off, Naruto will lose again on purpose this time with some seemingly-final message to Sasuke that brings him back. Then Naruto will miraculously survive and he and Sasuke will face off with Madara.

[ASSpirine]

Somehow I get the feeling Naruto and Sasuke will face off, Naruto will lose again on purpose this time with some seemingly-final message to Sasuke that brings him back. Then Naruto will miraculously survive and he and Sasuke will face off with Madara.

Hope not, he deserves to go on trial for war crimes.
But somehow I believe Tsunade/Narutos' emo speech will convince the trial in the end to let Sasuke repay his debt to society in some sort of douchy way...

[DarthEnderX]

Somehow I get the feeling Naruto and Sasuke will face off, Naruto will lose again on purpose this time with some seemingly-final message to Sasuke that brings him back. Then Naruto will miraculously survive and he and Sasuke will face off with Madara.Personally, I don't think Madara is intended to be the big bad for this series frankly.

I think at some point Madara is going to be killed off, and Sasuke is going to take his place as the main villain and the last battle in this series is going to be Hokage Naruto vs. Sasuke.

[Kraco]

Konoha administration is full of idiots, though, to alienate the Uchiha clan for generations. Clearly it's one of the best bloodline limits. If they had any wits left, they would strive to get Sasuke back, no matter his crimes, and have him breed with a bunch of ladies.

[Buffalobiian]

Konoha administration is full of idiots, though, to alienate the Uchiha clan for generations. Clearly it's one of the best bloodline limits. If they had any wits left, they would strive to get Sasuke back, no matter his crimes, and have him breed with a bunch of ladies.

And they would, certainly, not be short on volunteers.

[DarthEnderX]

Konoha administration is full of idiots, though, to alienate the Uchiha clan for generations. Clearly it's one of the best bloodline limits. If they had any wits left, they would strive to get Sasuke back, no matter his crimes, and have him breed with a bunch of ladies.That's kinda what they had going on before, and it just ended up with the Uchiha being big and powerful and traitorous.

I think all things considered everyone would just rather be rid of the Uchiha once and for all.

[DarthEnderX]

P.S. Did anyone else notice that Kankuro's new puppet looks like Sasori?

[anime nomad]

alot of people in this thread are taking for granted that Sasuke has inherited Itachi's sharingan (because Itachi's blood went into sasuke's eyes). I think thats a misconception. Sasuke has merely unlocked his own mangekyo sharingan. Sasuke has more control over the Amaterasu then Itachi had (he is able control the flames) while Itachi had much more control over Tsukuyomi (the genjitsu), Sasukes Susano summon as well is not as developed as Itachi's (only bones at this time - while Itachi could make it fully fleshed and arm it with those spirit weapons that he collected)
I would hope that when/if sasuke replaces his eyes with Itachis, then he will truly "inherit" his brothers abilities.

[DarthEnderX]

Seems to me like he has both Itachi's powers and his own.

I say that because we saw him use both the Tsukiyomi ability, and the ability to manipulate Black Flames from the same eye.

It certainly would have made more SENSE for Amaterasu to have only been a one time thing until Sasuke implants Itachi's eyes, but that seems out the window already as Sasuke has already displayed four separate Mangkyou powers.

Presumably, if he's using Itachi's Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, Kishi has left himself open to give Sasuke yet another power in his Amaterasu eye that's Sasuke's real power for that eye.

[Buffalobiian]

alot of people in this thread are taking for granted that Sasuke has inherited Itachi's sharingan (because Itachi's blood went into sasuke's eyes). I think thats a misconception. Sasuke has merely unlocked his own mangekyo sharingan. Sasuke has more control over the Amaterasu then Itachi had (he is able control the flames) while Itachi had much more control over Tsukuyomi (the genjitsu), Sasukes Susano summon as well is not as developed as Itachi's (only bones at this time - while Itachi could make it fully fleshed and arm it with those spirit weapons that he collected)
I would hope that when/if sasuke replaces his eyes with Itachis, then he will truly "inherit" his brothers abilities.

One thing to consider is that if Itachi has "given" Sasuke his powers, does Itachi's eyes still have any power in them?

[anime nomad]

Seems to me like he has both Itachi's powers and his own.

I say that because we saw him use both the Tsukiyomi ability, and the ability to manipulate Black Flames from the same eye.

It certainly would have made more SENSE for Amaterasu to have only been a one time thing until Sasuke implants Itachi's eyes, but that seems out the window already as Sasuke has already displayed four separate Mangkyou powers.

Presumably, if he's using Itachi's Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, Kishi has left himself open to give Sasuke yet another power in his Amaterasu eye that's Sasuke's real power for that eye.

I think there is a 4th mangekyo power! opening inter-dimensional gateways.
Kakasi seems to have learned how to use it, and madara is a master at using it. I think its tied to the same eye as Tsukiyomi, and it may even be the way that sasuke is controlling the flames (by pulling them into another dimension).

[DarthEnderX]

I just assumed that every Mangekyou Sharingan got a different power in each eye.


One thing to consider is that if Itachi has "given" Sasuke his powers, does Itachi's eyes still have any power in them?Well, for Sasuke's sake, he'd better hope that at the very least they still have the power to keep him from going blind.

[anime nomad]

I just assumed that every Mangekyou Sharingan got a different power in each eye..

Damn. never even considered that.
I made the opposite assumption: every Mangekyo is the same.

[DarthEnderX]

Well, Kakashi's Mangekou power is completely different from Itachi or Sasuke's.

Also, Madara has an Eternal Magekyou and, it seems as though he doesn't have Amaterasu. Hence my assumption that they are all different.(Although, it COULD just be because he doesn't have the other eye his Amaterasu would be in, he has kept his other eye covered the entire series so far, it could just be gone).

Sasuke and Itachi both have Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu, but, as has been stated, Itachi seems to have transferred his powers to Sasuke.

So presumably, Sasuke can also get two powers of his own. The first seems to be Black Flame manipulation, the other, he doesn't seem to have discovered yet.

Also, unlocking both eyes seems to give every Magekyou user a Susano'o. But Sasuke's is different from Ichachi's. Again, I'm assuming that every Magekyou user has a unique appearance to their Susano'o.

[Buffalobiian]

Until recently, I've always considered the Mangekyou Sharingan powers to be connected to another dimension in some way:

1) Tsukiyomi: sending both parties to a dimension that's under the caster's control. Time flow is 72hrs : 1 second. (this one's a bit iffy, but Tsukiyomi isn't even "normal" genjutsu anyway - if even.

2) Amaterasu: summons "other-worldly" flames into this dimension

3) Kakashi's : Opens a one-way portal to another dimension

4) Susano'o: Summon a being from another dimension

5) Madara's: Summon yourself in and out of another dimension to travel.

Note that these "dimensions" aren't necessarily one and the same. The world of Tsukiyomi isn't (necessarily) the world where Amaterasu flames originate from, nor where Kakashi sends his enemies.


And regarding Sasuke, Itachi's transferred powers may be additive on top of his own. But what I think is more likely is that Sasuke doesn't have the Tsukiyomi. That guy certainly didn't look like he was walking around for 72hrs, nor did he collapse utterly and completely. Only his body was frozen, and he recovered within...half an hour?

That, or it's a piss weak "Sasuke ver" of Itachi's moves, just like his Amaterasu.

[Kraco]

It never even occurred to me the genjutsu Sasuke used against the dude could have been Tsukiyomi. It was just normal sharingan powered genjutsu in my opinion. Itachi used it all the time and, I reckon, it was the main reason his opponents feared him. He easily defeated Orochimaru and Deidara The Armless Ninja with it, if memory serves.

[Buffalobiian]

It never even occurred to me the genjutsu Sasuke used against the dude could have been Tsukiyomi. It was just normal sharingan powered genjutsu in my opinion. Itachi used it all the time and, I reckon, it was the main reason his opponents feared him. He easily defeated Orochimaru and Deidara The Armless Ninja with it, if memory serves.

I haven't revisited the last episode to check, but I'm of the opinion that Sasuke staggered after he genjutsu-ed the guy. That gave me the impression that it may not have been a normal move. I'm pretty set on it being a normal sharingan genjutsu move now though.

[Kraco]

I posted before that Sasuke is far from Itachi's level of genjutsu. Sasuke visibly staggering after it was one of the reasons why I formed that opinion.

[Buffalobiian]

I posted before that Sasuke is far from Itachi's level of genjutsu. Sasuke visibly staggering after it was one of the reasons why I formed that opinion.

You did? Hmm...

But even with that, I wouldn't have formed such a connection, since there has been no prior case of someone suffering from the adverse effects of casting genjutsu.

[DarthEnderX]

Well, his eyes turned into his Mangekyou when he used it on that Cloud ninja when he was looking for Bee. Since Mangekyou makes you go blind, I don't imagine he'd activate them if he didn't have to to use whatever Genjutsu he was using on the guy. I can't remember if he said Tsukiyomi or not at that time.