Naruto Shippuuden Episode 167

[Marik]

[HorribleSubs] Naruto Shippuuden - 167 - 720p (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=140751) | 480p (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=140750)

Next episode airs on July 15th.

[Buffalobiian]

That was pretty intense. When you have fireballs raining from the sky, things truly feel epic.

Still, was it really necessary for for Pain to undergo so much distortion? Feels like shitty animation.

And somehow, Katsuya manages to stay on Naruto whose skin is supposed to be undergoing a constant proliferation/destruction cycle.

[Smithyyy]

One word. Epic.

I agree. I have yet to watch it in high quility but I kinda felt the animation could of been done more better, if you pause it in some places you can find a good bunch of funny faces :D but yeah overall I enjoyed it so much, its better then reading the manga.

[NeoCybercoin]

The animation and added scenes were crap. Sure the crater in Konoha was big but now it's so freaking big you can make an ocean in there and still not see the end? I was really hoping they would animate it better like they do with normal episodes. The animation kind of ruined it for me.

[ASSpirine]

I disliked the animation, but it leads to something good it seems. Is he finally about to know the truth about yondaime?...

[Shadow Skill]

I hope so. I hope he kicks serious ass in the next episode.

If it's in 2 weeks, I wonder if it will be an hour special.

[Marik]

If it's in 2 weeks, I wonder if it will be an hour special.

7/8 - No ep.
7/15 - Normal 30 min ep.
7/22 - Normal 30 min ep.
7/29 - 1 hour special.

[Azonalanthious]

I enjoyed the ep, but yeah, the animation was really, really off, particularly in the first half. Almost to the point where it felt like a different show. Anyone else catch the road-runner legs at ~4:45? Come on, we aren't watching loony toons. I'm pretty laid back in that department - I can't think of another time where the animation really got to me - but it did here. Almost to the point where I'm siding with NeoCybercoin and saying it ruined the ep.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

It was something different. I enjoyed the change of pace, the animation had to be so over the top that you can sense the epic calamity of it all. Albeit the elongating faces is way offbeat for this series but I don't think that can make or break an episode.

[Penner]

Parts of it were truly awesome, other parts looked so weird they made me lose focus from the ep and all i could think was 'what the fuck?'.

It looks like Nagato is seriously running out of power, and a big w00t on the Fourth living inside Naruto o.O

Also, Hinata isn't dead (yet?), yay :P

[DarthEnderX]

So....yeah. The first five minutes or so....like someone already said, it was like watching a Loony Toons cartoon. This is obviously the same team that did Naruto vs. Sasuke 2, which was awesome, but it seems like they had no editor on this one. Nobody to tell them "Okay, that's enough." Because they just went insane with it.

It got better from the point where he destroyed his crystal.

I immediately went to the manga after this because there were a ton of characters using abilities they didn't have previously, not surprisingly, none of it was in the manga.

Most notably, all of the Kyuubi's fire attacks. Aside from the fact that he's red, there's never been anything to suggest that he can use the Fire element before now.

I also thought it was strange that Pain, who previously could be taken out pretty easily if you could actually get past his Push, was all of a sudden completely immune to damage. Even blocking the Kyuubi's physical attacks, which in addition to causing massive damage, have been shown to burn flesh. As expected, the Kyuubi never really makes contact with Pain in the manga.

Also, Pain has Water element powers since when?

So yeah, the animators went crazy with the making shit up.



But aside from all that....

Woot! Boobs are alive! ALIIIIIIVE!!

Poor Kyuubi almost gets out and then BAM! 4th's Ghost.

I do think it's cool that the Kyuubi basically regrows as more tails come out. At 4, Naruto is like his blood, then he gets a skeleton at 6, and muscles at 8. I'm guessing at 9 his fur grows back.

Also, Sage of the Six Paths made THE MOON! He's the Anti-Piccolo!

[LunaticCat]

I also thought it was strange that Pain, who previously could be taken out pretty easily if you could actually get past his Push, was all of a sudden completely immune to damage. Even blocking the Kyuubi's physical attacks, which in addition to causing massive damage, have been shown to burn flesh. As expected, the Kyuubi never really makes contact with Pain in the manga.
Also, Pain has Water element powers since when?


yah, i also thought that this was pretty strange. just like you guys said before: Loony Toons. But the scene were Kyuubi-Naruto hammered pain into the ground was really funny ;)

hope next episode will have less ridiculous animation.

the inside-Naruto-scene was great :)

[kmkze04]

The overall emotional intensity made me easily forget/overlook the bad animation. Freakin' epic... I almost strangled my computer when the ED came up because I wanted more. Another two weeks...

Side note... the new ED I thought was pretty awesome, and appropriate for 4th of July coming up.

[Mugen]

The animation and added scenes were crap. Sure the crater in Konoha was big but now it's so freaking big you can make an ocean in there and still not see the end? I was really hoping they would animate it better like they do with normal episodes. The animation kind of ruined it for me.

yeah i have to agree with this... the horrible animation totally ruined the ep for me... road runner legs looked silly and stupid... only things i liked are that hinata is still alive and the 4th seems to be living inside naruto


yah, i also thought that this was pretty strange. just like you guys said before: Loony Toons. But the scene were Kyuubi-Naruto hammered pain into the ground was really funny ;)

hope next episode will have less ridiculous animation.

the inside-Naruto-scene was great :)

i was just thinking wtf was that... so cheesy


The overall emotional intensity made me easily forget/overlook the bad animation. Freakin' epic... I almost strangled my computer when the ED came up because I wanted more. Another two weeks...

Side note... the new ED I thought was pretty awesome, and appropriate for 4th of July coming up.

exact opposite for me, all emotional intensity was lost... what a waste it could have been a much better episode

[Azonalanthious]

The overall emotional intensity made me easily forget/overlook the bad animation. Freakin' epic... I almost strangled my computer when the ED came up because I wanted more. Another two weeks...

Side note... the new ED I thought was pretty awesome, and appropriate for 4th of July coming up.

It was completely the other way around for me. The animation was so bad it kept pulling me completely out of the moment with wth double takes, which caused me to loose any feeling of emotional intensity. At least for the first part of the ep. It was better in the second half, still little things, but small enough that I could ignore them and really get into the feel of it.

Heck, there are filler episodes (lots of them!) that did a far better job of telling the story and drawing me in, even if the story they were telling isn't as good.

[kmkze04]

Well everyone's right about the bad animation at the start. What I meant more was that once the intense scenes towards the end started kicking in, I forgot all about the bad animation before it and got drawn into the scene. If I had only watched the first section, I'd be crying in Pain of my own.

Except for the railroad spike Pain getting hammered in. That was glory.

[Kraco]

After the road runner legs scene I tried to tell myself I didn't really see anything and proceeded to forget it. But it surely was a glorious epitome of the weird animation in this episode.

Still, there were some good scenes and forgetting the loony and otherwise compromised details the general mood of the episode wasn't bad. It conveyed the utterly chaotic and inhuman nature of Kyuubi when Naruto drops the control. Although Pain suddenly and inexplainably scaling up to meet that alien power somewhat detracted from that atmosphere.

[LordGardenGnome]

I understand many people's anger for the animation but I kinda of understand the style choose for it. They showed a lot more extreme emotion with the kind of animation. It was more like trying to show you just how sickening the power was of both fighters. At times that animation can get annoying but I think it's to express a great magnitude of emotions and power.

[DarthEnderX]

The style didn't show extreme emotion at all though.

In fact, even moreso than the Loony Tunes comparison, the first thing that came to mind watching the Kyuubi in the first part was Luffy's 3rd Gear. The way he kept ballooning up all over the place.

It's like, the Kyuubi is supposed to look all sleek and angular. Not all puffy and rounded off. There were scenes where it looked like they drew him with mouse ears...



Except for the railroad spike Pain getting hammered in. That was glory.The part that made me lol was right after that. When Pain's head is poking out of the ground going, "Do you hate me?"

[Azonalanthious]

I understand many people's anger for the animation but I kinda of understand the style choose for it. They showed a lot more extreme emotion with the kind of animation. It was more like trying to show you just how sickening the power was of both fighters. At times that animation can get annoying but I think it's to express a great magnitude of emotions and power.

I don't see the slightest shred of this. You can show extreme emotion just fine without twisting someone's head like play-do, and someone's legs turning into a blurry circle when the run doesn't look powerful, it just looks stupid.

[Buffalobiian]

yah, i also thought that this was pretty strange. just like you guys said before: Loony Toons. But the scene were Kyuubi-Naruto hammered pain into the ground and he survived was really funny

At first the animation confused me and made me think Pain transformed or something. A few minutes in I just settled with that the manga art was also this weird, and watched the episode for what it was, and checked later.

In any case, it's good now that I can forget 99% of what happened in this fight, since I would never figure out how the two can adapt their powers into laser beams.

[arondruiz]

Well everyone's right about the bad animation at the start. What I meant more was that once the intense scenes towards the end started kicking in, I forgot all about the bad animation before it and got drawn into the scene. If I had only watched the first section, I'd be crying in Pain of my own.

Except for the railroad spike Pain getting hammered in. That was glory.

The super high-speed motion scenes are drawn like that on purpose. It isn't "bad animation", the style is just hit or miss for people. It's something you either love or hate. The entire episode was done by very high profile animators. I dare you to find one badly drawn scene in the episode that isn't a high speed motion shot.

[Buffalobiian]

I dare you to find one badly drawn scene in the episode that isn't a high speed motion shot.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/982/horriblesubsnarutoshippo.jpg

[depthcharge]

This episode is completely distorted.

Just as Aizen planned.

[Mugen]

The super high-speed motion scenes are drawn like that on purpose. It isn't "bad animation", the style is just hit or miss for people. It's something you either love or hate. The entire episode was done by very high profile animators. I dare you to find one badly drawn scene in the episode that isn't a high speed motion shot.

the style was animated badly. it's not like this is the first time ever that "super high-speed motion scenes" were animated.

[LunaticCat]

Originally Posted by arondruiz
I dare you to find one badly drawn scene in the episode that isn't a high speed motion shot.http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/982/horriblesubsnarutoshippo.jpg

:D Yeah, that one;or Nagato bleeding out of his nose....

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

It was a good episode, but I think that it I liked it more in the Manga. The fourth showed up at the very end of the chapter without any clues.

[Archangel]

Oh Good Lord, what did i just watch?

The motherfucking 4th hokage came out of fucking nowhere and nobody cares because apparently they got Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner to animate this week's episode.

And not just the way they animated it, God Realm's Force Push is now a force field too against the Kyuubi's pew pew lasers and spewing fire. I don't even know where to begin in describing how much shit was made up for just this one episode. They even went as far as having him smile, something that we've never seen him do ( for reasons not yet explained ).

Someone needs to make a gif or a meme of Pain getting hammered down and then popping out his head and asking "Do you hate me?", that shit was fucking hilarious.

[The Heretic Azazel]

The super high-speed motion scenes are drawn like that on purpose. It isn't "bad animation", the style is just hit or miss for people. It's something you either love or hate. The entire episode was done by very high profile animators. I dare you to find one badly drawn scene in the episode that isn't a high speed motion shot.

This.

I really, really enjoyed the animation. Apart from the roadrunner legs, which was pretty terrible, I think most everything had its place. Sure, it was super over the top, but it's such a welcome change of pace as far as I'm concerned. I even like that picture of Pein, it's just such a total mindfuck considering the emotionless bastard we know and love.

This style isn't always pretty. It's very fluid, but its randomness is not something everyone appreciates. It is something done to capture attention and it's in the same vein as the eternal anime staple of the distorted face/blank eyes/exaggerated expression, just on a more realistic scale. I guess I just like all that crazy shit, I did enjoy Kaiba.

I feel differently as it relates to the story. As stated, things weren't at this level of chaos in the manga, so Tendo wasn't catching death blows on a regular basis. It makes no sense for Tendo to survive all that after the other Paths of Pein were dispatched with a fraction of the effort. They are just corpses, after all. Tendo getting hammered into the ground was cool, and another thing I thought was really funny was Tendo going Bruce Lee on the Kyuubi's rock projectiles (2:48).

[Archangel]

This.

I really, really enjoyed the animation. Apart from the roadrunner legs, which was pretty terrible, I think most everything had its place. Sure, it was super over the top, but it's such a welcome change of pace as far as I'm concerned. I even like that picture of Pein, it's just such a total mindfuck considering the emotionless bastard we know and love.

This style isn't always pretty. It's very fluid, but its randomness is not something everyone appreciates. It is something done to capture attention and it's in the same vein as the eternal anime staple of the distorted face/blank eyes/exaggerated expression, just on a more realistic scale. I guess I just like all that crazy shit, I did enjoy Kaiba.

I feel differently as it relates to the story. As stated, things weren't at this level of chaos in the manga, so Tendo wasn't catching death blows on a regular basis. It makes no sense for Tendo to survive all that after the other Paths of Pein were dispatched with a fraction of the effort. They are just corpses, after all. Tendo getting hammered into the ground was cool, and another thing I thought was really funny was Tendo going Bruce Lee on the Kyuubi's rock projectiles (2:48).
You say all this because you read the manga so all this came unexpectedly and fun to watch, imagine what sort of mindfuck this imposes on someone who's just following the anime

[The Heretic Azazel]

I went back and read the chapters after watching this, but they happened so long ago I had only remembered a couple of key points anyway. The manga is far enough ahead that the anime is enjoyable to relive.

Don't misunderstand me. Of course it's not "wrong" for anyone to not have enjoyed it, it's an acquired taste. If it were like that all the time I'm sure I would grow pretty tired of it, but it's cool to see how a different team handles the most epic fight in the story up to this point. It just needed something different from your average animation.

[DarthEnderX]

The super high-speed motion scenes are drawn like that on purpose. It isn't "bad animation", the style is just hit or miss for people. It's something you either love or hate.That's bullshit because I absolutely loved the exact same style being used in fights like Oro vs. 3rd and Naruto vs. Sasuke 2. This episode was just straight up done shitty. It's like I said before, it's as if nobody told them they were going way over the top.



And not just the way they animated it, God Realm's Force Push is now a force field too against the Kyuubi's pew pew lasers and spewing fire.I know right! Way to COMPLETELY ignore all of the stuff that was established previously. I mean, it was like a major plot point that entire episodes were hung on that the push has to be recharged after each use, so that rapid fire attacks are like his weakness. But then we have him using his Push as a forcefield against the Kyuubi's gatling fireballs.

[StingRay]

I don't mind the quality of the animation. We've all seen worse. Anyone recall the animation during Sasori's part of the story? all those horrendous puppets; team gai fighting clones of themselves? remember how stiff, crappy, and slow the fighting was during their screentime? Put that same animation applied to what we just saw and i'd pick the "looney tunes" version anyday.

All in all, i really enjoyed the episode.

[Buffalobiian]

Oh Good Lord, what did i just watch?

The motherfucking 4th hokage came out of fucking nowhere and nobody cares because apparently they got Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner to animate this week's episode.

I simply took it as a programmed personality/hologram/whateveryouwannacallit that's part of his seal.

The seal was designed so that Minato pops up and helps Naruto somehow - with the end result being Naruto has 100% control over the Kyuubi without consequence.

[DarthEnderX]

I simply took it as a programmed personality/hologram/whateveryouwannacallit that's part of his seal. It's probably his ghost.

You know, like how Kakashi talked to his dad's ghost.

Only, you know, the 4th can do it while Naruto is still alive because he rocks so hard.

[LunaticCat]

It's probably his ghost.

You know, like how Kakashi talked to his dad's ghost.

Only, you know, the 4th can do it while Naruto is still alive because he rocks so hard.

we know that the 4th mastered space-time-jutsu and the "other world" is just a different dimension. so, somehow, this makes sense.
btw: wasn't the 4th standing on a mountain or something before he stopped Naruto? (I can't really remember.)

[Buffalobiian]

we know that the 4th mastered space-time-jutsu and the "other world" is just a different dimension. so, somehow, this makes sense.
btw: wasn't the 4th standing on a mountain or something before he stopped Naruto? (I can't really remember.)

But we've been told that casters of the Death Seal get to spend eternity with Death or something.

[ASSpirine]

we know that the 4th mastered space-time-jutsu and the "other world" is just a different dimension. so, somehow, this makes sense.
btw: wasn't the 4th standing on a mountain or something before he stopped Naruto? (I can't really remember.)

He stood on Gamabunta



But we've been told that casters of the Death Seal get to spend eternity with Death or something.

That's what the third said.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

[QUOTE=ASSpirine;466245]He stood on Gamabunta

He was talking about in the episode when Naruto was walking towards the seal and we see the 4th chillin' on a mountain and opening his eyes as Naruto got closer to the seal.


I did like how the Red Water (chakra) turned Blue again after the 4th got there.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

I know right! Way to COMPLETELY ignore all of the stuff that was established previously. I mean, it was like a major plot point that entire episodes were hung on that the push has to be recharged after each use, so that rapid fire attacks are like his weakness. But then we have him using his Push as a forcefield against the Kyuubi's gatling fireballs.


It wasn't that big a stretch if you think about it. If you don't think much about it then it seems out of place from what just happened episodes earlier, sure. I'm gonna assume that when there's only one Pain left standing he becomes substantially stronger since Nagato can focus all the chakra to him. I'll also assume YahikoPain would be the strongest and most resilient of the bunch to begin with just from the emotional attachment of the body. While we did see the other Pain bodies taken out by much less we never saw this one need resurrecting or display much weakness even after taking some hits from Saged up Naruto.

For the 5-second rule, it did say that the cooldown would be longer if he increased the power. How do we know that this wasn't simply him using a massive Push that kept pushing for a few seconds? If Naruto's rasenshuriken was as strong as the beams of hatred kyubii was launching then we mighta seen some outline from the Shinra tensei.

What I really don't get is how youre confused over the kyubii's pure chakra beams. It's perfectly normal for him to make a giant ball of it then shoot that but making to a beam form it is too much a stretch?

I can guess a solely anime viewer would enjoy the ep more than a manga loving twat like myself.

[Yukimura]

That little tidbit about the Death Seal always bugged me. Based on the fact that the Death Seal kills the user after its use what happens to the souls after is probably more speculative than anything else. That is, unless someone summoned the death god by sacrificing someone else's life and then asked the thing what it did with the souls it ate.

[LunaticCat]

He was talking about in the episode when Naruto was walking towards the seal and we see the 4th chillin' on a mountain and opening his eyes as Naruto got closer to the seal.


that's what I meant.

[redcat]

I think it was just some random foreshadowing to what was going to happen in like 5 seconds

[antiravage]

This fight is memorable alright. For the good or bad reasons, it will be remembered by every naruto fan.This episode felt like dragon ball. The first half of the episode was crazy in every sense of the word.

[Marik]

Sankaku has an article about this ep. Site NSFW.

Naruto Achieves Legendary Quality (http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/07/03/naruto-achieves-legendary-quality)

[Archangel]

The whole community seems to be split on this

[Marik]

http://home.comcast.net/%7Esupergotenks/hate.gif

[antiravage]

The whole community seems to be split on this

The guy who did this episode is a legend in japan. I doubt they give a shit about what the overseas fans think. Episode 133 was huge there and so will this one be. The best Naruto episodes were done by him, from 30 to 71. So they could careless.

[Penner]

Damn, after reviewing that stuff in the link Marik provided... it was even worse then i could remember...

Seriously, it looks completely retarded.

[Mugen]

Damn, after reviewing that stuff in the link Marik provided... it was even worse then i could remember...

Seriously, it looks completely retarded.
+1

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/naruto-quality-3.gif

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Yeah they went too far. They should remake the entire thing.

[KrayZ33]

wtf... you guys are serious?

In my opinion, this episode was the most awesome we ever had
I can't believe you dislike it just because there were like 4 seconds of funny faces and road-runner legs.

the rest was totally impressive

we had lazers, force fields/shields, some kind of death-star
kyuubi action, extreme enrage and a very dramatic climax at the point where the kyuubi reached the 8/9 tail form.

yes, I'm serious

the animation made clear that pain is nothing more than a dead puppet.
and to mention it again
SO MANY LAZERS AND PEW PEW

I'm being serious, this was a lot better than the fight with Team-Sasuke and the eight(?) tailed beast. *that* fight had even *more* silly scenes but it was still good and great

and this ep had 20 minutes full of non-stop kyuubi/high-level fighting
thats exactly what I wanted to see and what I got.
thats what *EVERYONE* here wanted to see for weeks and now you guys hang yourself up on a few silly animationes

Facial expressions were still a lot better than the "more detailed" normal animation of Naruto
I nearly had to vomit after seeing the preview for the next ep, because it reminded me how boring and full of lame shit this series is normally..

just my 2-kyuubi-enrage cents for you

bye :)

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

YEAH! Ya know what.... Imma stand by my original convictions. Cause you're right, and I was right. It wasn't like that was the entire episode. But if you look at the stills and gifs playing over and over then yeah youre gonna think it was the whole 20 minutes.


btw; my last post, total sarcasm.

[Pandadice]

whoa. Atsushi Wakabayashi came in as episode director and sakkan on this ep.. and it honestly isn't even recognizably Naruto. The action sequences were so wildy intense and off the wall. Everything was super energetic and flashy. It was nothing like a conventional Naruto episode, or episode of anything else I can think of. I loved every minute of it. Honestly if every episode was this energetic I'd enjoy this series a lot more.

It was some brilliant experimental animation in an industry that is so stagnant and generic these days.

[arondruiz]

The whole community seems to be split on this

It's mostly the people who take the manga way too seriously that hate the episode. The other people who hated the episode are the art-freaks, but I don't know why. Who cares if the action scenes have sketchy art? The talking scenes in the episode (where art actually does matter) had some of the best art this series has ever had, while the action scenes had some of the best animation this series has ever had.

I'd say this episode easily had the highest budget of any episode that the big 3 Shounen have put out to date (OP/Bleach/Naruto)

[Sabrac]

The battle was pretty epic. Although I personally didn't like the animation all that much. I know they were trying to make it look like they were moving super fast but common! Not to mention how animated Pain's face was, when for all the other times he was seen his expression was somber. In my opinion, Pain should not still be standing... Sage Mode Naruto took down 5 of the Pains, so 6 tails should be more than enough to take down one little Ninja. Granted Tendo/Tendou's power is pretty overpowered. All in all I hope the animation returns to normal.

Yondaime 4 T Win!

[RyougaZell]

I love the new ending. Awesome song and awesome animation. And best of all... no more crappy ear-bleeding ore ska band.

Did Naruto just broke a collar worth 3 mountains?

Yondaime looking awesome.

[Archangel]

Did Naruto just broke a collar worth 3 mountains?
And nobody is gonna mention it ever again xD

[redcat]

Did Naruto just broke a collar worth 3 mountains?

it seems re-reading this over and over isn't going to help me. no clue what you're trying to say here.

[RyougaZell]

it seems re-reading this over and over isn't going to help me. no clue what you're trying to say here.

Tsunade's necklace was worth 3 mountains according to Shizune, back when Naruto won it.

Though your confusion may come from the word collar... I assummed it was a synonym for necklace, since thats its spanish word. Archie understood though.

[UChessmaster]

wtf... you guys are serious?

In my opinion, this episode was the most awesome we ever had
I can't believe you dislike it just because there were like 4 seconds of funny faces and road-runner legs.

the rest was totally impressive

we had lazers, force fields/shields, some kind of death-star
kyuubi action, extreme enrage and a very dramatic climax at the point where the kyuubi reached the 8/9 tail form.

yes, I'm

the animation made clear that pain is nothing more than a dead puppet.
and to mention it again
SO MANY LAZERS AND PEW PEW

A) We`re serious yes

B) Best episode ever? i loled

C) It was far more than 4 seconds

D) Road runnder legs, Pain got nailed, Pain yelling like a retard, Kyuubi looked like the tazmanian devil at the beggining, the beyond retarded and humanly imposible expressions Pain did

E) Lazer and pewpew? a screen with fast changing colors would be just as entertaining

2/10 -.-

[Sam98034]

I definitely liked this episode but hated half the animation. I liked the pacing and where they were going with it, though. I say do the exact same episode and double the budget. It would be the best Naruto episode we've ever seen. As far as Pain taking those hard hits: remember, Nagato's not really taking any hits. I also bet that God Mode Pain is extra beefed up defence-wise because he is the strongest and is one Nagato would not want to lose during a fight.

[Buffalobiian]

I definitely liked this episode but hated half the animation. I liked the pacing and where they were going with it, though. I say do the exact same episode and double the budget. It would be the best Naruto episode we've ever seen. As far as Pain taking those hard hits: remember, Nagato's not really taking any hits. I also bet that God Mode Pain is extra beefed up defence-wise because he is the strongest and is one Nagato would not want to lose during a fight.

That's some advanced structural modification there.

If he can take a mountain landing on top of him, you wonder why he has to avoid damage at all.

[Archangel]

Oh for the love of...

DON'T start trying to make sense of this, there is no plausible explanation for half the shit that went down. The animators just decided to get cheeky and experiment their asses out, it was almost all completely filler.

[KrayZ33]

there is no plausible explanation for half of the shit that happens in the anime in the first place
I don't get why you complain about some extra action.

the "hammertime" scene made at least clear, that the pain bodies are no living beings. when naruto was able to take one body out by punshing it in the face before i was like "wtf? isn't it supossed to be some kind of zombie?"

During the Naruto vs Sasuke fight, Naruto had his neck broken etc. and nobody complained because KYUUBI POWA SOLVES!! right? pah

puppet pain was able to do shit too even though his body was totally smashed into pieces.



C) It was far more than 4 seconds
ya sry, probably 8 seconds


Pain yelling like a retard, Kyuubi looked like the tazmanian devil at the beggining, the beyond retarded and humanly imposible expressions Pain did

pain yelling like a "retard"?
if you are talking about the scene where he created the big rock in the sky,
that was probably one of the best/better and more realistic facial expression we've seen in Naruto

and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the how the kyuubi looked like

[LunaticCat]

During the Naruto vs Sasuke fight, Naruto had his neck broken etc. and nobody complained because KYUUBI POWA SOLVES!! right? pah

you know, I disliked that scene too (but I guess I'm the only one)



puppet pain was able to do shit too even though his body was totally smashed into pieces.


That's right but PuppetPain was a puppet. The others were chakra-controlled zombies. and if your bones or muscles are destroyed you can't move - even if you're a zombie (but of course I don't know any zombies, so I might be wrong) ;)

[Kraco]

That's right but PuppetPain was a puppet. The others were chakra-controlled zombies. and if your bones or muscles are destroyed you can't move - even if you're a zombie (but of course I don't know any zombies, so I might be wrong) ;)

I'm inclined to think most of the Pains are more like flesh golems. A zombie is an autonomous entity, after all, even if all it does is wander around and indiscriminately attack all living beings in the hopes of catching some brains. Pains, however, seem to be simple extensions, that is, puppets, under Nagato's power and control. Jiraiya proved this by catching one and separating it from Nagato, which rendered the thing comatose.

Although this doesn't really change what you said. I believe there needs to be some structural integrity in the body, in addition to the rods, for Nagato to be able to control it. An all messed up pile bones and flesh would likely be out.

[Buffalobiian]

the "hammertime" scene made at least clear, that the pain bodies are no living beings. when naruto was able to take one body out by punshing it in the face before i was like "wtf? isn't it supossed to be some kind of zombie?"

Not really.

It would make no sense for them to be down from Jiraiya's swords otherwise.

[Artris]

This episode was certainly entertaining. Honestly only three things really bothered me, things that could have easily been avoided:

Meep Meep! Road-runner-Pain was a bit much, especially when you can see him later not moving his legs but simply flying with his feet skimming the ground. Would have been far better to go straight to that. We've already seen him fly, so it is not too far a stretch. Then again nobody seems to complain when the green beast loses his legs in a blur of motion. I think if the road runner didn't exist, this would have been more bearable.

The initial face-melting inertia effect was a bit much. I actually liked the stance and facial expression made when using 'Planetary Devastation'. The nose bleeding as well really fit in. The initial one though just seemed like crappy animation.

The amount of damage Pain was able to absorb with no effect. Specifically being hammered into the ground was, while funny, a bit much. He must have one hell of a spinal column to pull that off, or very sharp feet. Being crushed with little to no effect would have been more plausible. Love the way he used his flying ability to pull himself out of the ground.

Naruto seemed to do quite fine. All of his moves we've seen before in some form or other. We've seen the reaching hands and shape shifting effects against Orochimaru. We've also seen a stronger version of the fire ball effect against Orochimaru (when he ate the huge clump of chakra then vomited it back out in a blast of fire): not a far stretch that he can shoot smaller balls of fire at will, or maintain a precise continuous beam for a short time. Only problem I have with him is likely to be shown next episode: his flame retardant clothing!

One thing nobody is talking about is where Pain stores all his metal poles. I have my theories but there aren't many places you can cram almost two body-lengths worth of metal pole. I suppose he is a masochist, but is he really that big an asshole?

[Azonalanthious]

It's mostly the people who take the manga way too seriously that hate the episode. The other people who hated the episode are the art-freaks, but I don't know why. Who cares if the action scenes have sketchy art? The talking scenes in the episode (where art actually does matter) had some of the best art this series has ever had, while the action scenes had some of the best animation this series has ever had.

I'd say this episode easily had the highest budget of any episode that the big 3 Shounen have put out to date (OP/Bleach/Naruto)

For the records, I hated this episode. The only portion of the manga I've read is the very first book (a gift from a friend). And I'm not much of an art critic - I've never once complained about or been bothered by an episode's animation. The fact of the matter is that even if this animation was a brilliant leap forward, its clear a large portion of the viewer base disliked it. Which means it was a mistake. Its one thing for fans to get upset over something that happens in a story, or over manga vs anime (since they have to add material to animate and no one will like it all) but to put out an episode like this that bothers so many fans purely due to the way they animated it is a mistake on the studio's part, plan and simple.

[LunaticCat]

For the records, I hated this episode. The only portion of the manga I've read is the very first book (a gift from a friend). And I'm not much of an art critic - I've never once complained about or been bothered by an episode's animation.
same with me, but i do not hate this episode at all. I just don't like the animation and the fact that they made Pain unbreakable.

[Buffalobiian]

I simply ask myself the question:

"Would this episode be just as good if the art was cleaned up?"

My answer is: most likely.

[Pandadice]

seriously guys, it's 1 episode out of 167. After they receive so much negative back-lash, they won't try it again, and we can all go back to having a never ending, repetitive series. 50 episodes down the line you won't even remember this happened...

I have to admit that an episode of Naruto isn't the best place for the creators to flex an artistic muscle, but I am disappointed that even though they thought to do it, it was so poorly received :\

[UChessmaster]

ya sry, probably 8 seconds

I`m going to go for half the episode thanks.


pain yelling like a "retard"?

if you are talking about the scene where he created the big rock in the sky,
that was probably one of the best/better and more realistic facial expression we've seen in Naruto

Anime rule #45574: Just cause it`s more reallistic doesn`t means it looks good. This is a series about ninjas that can *insert random ninja technique here*, fuck realism.


and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the how the kyuubi looked like

At the very beggining when he starts throwing rocks (i think?) he looks pretty much like Taz, i can`t be bothered to look into this sin of an episode again, so i`ll just take it back, the Kyuubi looked brilliant.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8403/71465468xnartuoanimatio.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3602/71466468xnartuoanimatio.jpg
Kyuubi, superior animation at it`s finest.

[KrayZ33]

Anime rule #45574: Just cause it`s more reallistic doesn`t means it looks good. This is a series about ninjas that can *insert random ninja technique here*, fuck realism.

and why do you complain about non realistic movements and such?

and again theres is nothing wrong with the kyuibi
it can change its form freely, so what?
its a fiery, formless, mass of hatred.

i thought it doesn't have to be realistic?

this episode had more style and better animation than 95% of what we saw in naruto so far.


I`m going to go for half the episode thanks.

the camera angles and the switches seen at 5:06-5:13 onwards forexample were totally well done. and the first half was full of that


Anime rule #45574: Just cause it`s more reallistic doesn`t means it looks good

lol, bullshit a total realistic looking anime-series or movie, would be the perfection of animation
and realistic looks have nothing to do with realistic content.

[UChessmaster]

and why do you complain about non realistic movements and such?

To be fair it wasn`t realistic, it was silly and cartoony.


and again theres is nothing wrong with the kyuibi
it can change its form freely, so what?
its a fiery, formless, mass of hatred.

He`s formless now? i always thought he was shaped as a fox and thus is referred as the nine tail demon fox, guess you learn something new every day


i thought it doesn't have to be realistic?

I thought you liked it realistic? again, it wasn`t realistic, just silly.


this episode had more style and better animation than 95% of what we saw in naruto so far.

And then you woke up


the camera angles and the switches seen at 5:06-5:13 onwards forexample were totally well done. and the first half was full of that

Yeah... no, i won`t bother seeing the episode again as already stated.

[antiravage]

If he can take a mountain landing on top of him, you wonder why he has to avoid damage at all.
I'm sorry, but didn't he survive a direct hit from Sage Naruto, who was shown lifting huge stones and sending boss summons flying? If he can survive a kick from Naruto or a punch from Sage Jiraiya mountains shouldn't be a problem.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm sorry, but didn't he survive a direct hit from Sage Naruto, who was shown lifting huge stones and sending boss summons flying?

He did? When?

And it's not like every single one of Sage Naruto's punches are capable of moving mountains. Remember how much effort they need (and time they need to gather energy) to lift a single toad statue?

If Sage punches where that powerful on their own there'd be no need to waste time charging Rasengans.

[Shadow Skill]

I enjoyed this episode. Was different. :)

Who cares if they looked like the road runner and the tasmanian devil. The fight and story was epic. I shouldnt say story, not much of it.

I thought the 3rd learned his death seal from the 4th? I thought the 3rd couldnt perform it as well as the 4th? So wouldnt the 4th's Death Seal be superior in some way? I thought the 4th created the Death Seal or am I wrong?

[Buffalobiian]

I thought the 3rd couldnt perform it as well as the 4th? So wouldnt the 4th's Death Seal be superior in some way? I thought the 4th created the Death Seal or am I wrong?

I've never heard of the 3rd being subpar at sealing than the 4th.

[Kraco]

I've never heard of the 3rd being subpar at sealing than the 4th.

The 4th sealed a fricking demon, the third failed to seal one man. I'd say the results alone speak for their difference in skills.

[Buffalobiian]

The 4th sealed a fricking demon, the third failed to seal one man. I'd say the results alone speak for their difference in skills.

The Third sealed the First, Second, and the arm of Orochimaru while having a sword impaled in him.

[LunaticCat]

The Third sealed the First, Second, and the arm of Orochimaru while having a sword impaled in him.

don't forget to mention that he was +-30 years older when he used the sealing-jutsu.

but the 4th is stronger anyway - I mean he was able to split Kuubi's chakra somehow and now we even see him inside Naruto! Great guy ;)

[Kraco]

The Third sealed the First, Second, and the arm of Orochimaru while having a sword impaled in him.

Bah, they weren't the real First and Second. They were just apparitions powered by Oro's sacrificed pawns, and thus only as powerful as those nameless pawns, even if they knew the original techniques.

[Buffalobiian]

Bah, they weren't the real First and Second. They were just apparitions powered by Oro's sacrificed pawns, and thus only as powerful as those nameless pawns, even if they knew the original techniques.

Did they ever mention this somewhere?

If it was the case, it hardly makes sense for Oro to choose such weak pawns to power such strong cards.

Why not use 2 of the Sound 4s then? Equivalent exchange doesn't seem to be a law in this anime.

[Kraco]

If it was Oro plus fully powered First and Second versus lone Third, I think the loser would be very swiftly obvious, even if we don't really know much about the First and Second's level of power.

Besides, how much sense does it make that by sacrificing some loser you get to resurrect some uber mofo with full powers yet completely obedient? If such a miracle technique existed, everybody and their cousins would be using it and all the fights in the series would be between zombies.

So, no, it wasn't said anywhere but logic dictates it.

[Buffalobiian]

If it was Oro plus fully powered First and Second versus lone Third, I think the loser would be very swiftly obvious, even if we don't really know much about the First and Second's level of power.

Exactly.

From the observing ANBU's point of view, it seemed very much like a "Hokage-level battle" to him - I have no reason to doubt him.

The outcome showed that the Third had no way of defeating them, and resorted to the Death Seal, which not only kills him, but binds his mentors' souls to hell forever.

It was most certainly a one-sided battle.



Besides, how much sense does it make that by sacrificing some loser you get to resurrect some uber mofo with full powers yet completely obedient? If such a miracle technique existed, everybody and their cousins would be using it and all the fights in the series would be between zombies.

So, no, it wasn't said anywhere but logic dictates it.

The two Hokages weren't completely obedient until Oro put those two tags into them.

It was also mentioned that this was a Forbidden Technique, something that was sealed from general knowledge, and probably read by Oro when he camped those archives in his younger days.

Techniques require understanding to perform. Just because everybody knows the Substitution Technique doesn't mean they can all perform this.

Or, maybe they could, since as I said, we know nothing about it other than that it's forbidden.

edit: The following doesn't prove a point, but just for kicks, Oro had to gather samples from the First and Second to perform this - Third mentioned something about raiding their graves.

[DarthEnderX]

It's mostly the people who take the manga way too seriously that hate the episode.I read the manga second and the reason I immediately did so after watching the episode was because the fight introduced about a half a dozen major plotholes. And sure enough, after reading the manga, I was able to confirm that none of those plotholes were because of Kishimoto's writing.

[Kraco]

It was also mentioned that this was a Forbidden Technique, something that was sealed from general knowledge, and probably read by Oro when he camped those archives in his younger days.

Haha. Didn't Naruto learn the shadow clone technique from a forbidden scroll? That's about as much as I respect anything forbidden in Naruto. If something's forbidden, it only means you don't want all manner of rogues and enemies to possess it - just like nukes of our world. But still lots of people are going to harbour it. If we believe half of what Madara told Sasuke, Konoha would use the technique readily if it really was as powerful as you said. And even if Madara was full of bs, Konoha would still use it in a tight spot.

[DarthEnderX]

Man, why doesn't that scroll ever come up again?

[Buffalobiian]

Haha. Didn't Naruto learn the shadow clone technique from a forbidden scroll? That's about as much as I respect anything forbidden in Naruto. If something's forbidden, it only means you don't want all manner of rogues and enemies to possess it - just like nukes of our world. But still lots of people are going to harbour it. If we believe half of what Madara told Sasuke, Konoha would use the technique readily if it really was as powerful as you said. And even if Madara was full of bs, Konoha would still use it in a tight spot.

Who would use it? I don't even know who actually has access to this scroll.

As for "respect" of Forbidden Techniques being forbidden.. some have more than others.

Yours seems to be in league with Oro's.

Regarding the famous Shadow Clone, it's been explained that it was withheld due to concerns over the user's safety. (which I'm sure you remember)

Sage Jutsu would be a Forbidden Technique too, due to the potential dangers of people turning into frogs while trying, if it wasn't for the rarity of knowledge, teachers, or toad oil.

[Kraco]

In any case the sole reason for my arguments in the place is my dislike of that particular fight. And that dislike stems directly from the suggested h4x0r level of power of that resurrection jutsu. I mean, supposedly one could now resurrect Itachi with all of his equally h4x0r sharingan powers. Or Jiraiya. Or anybody at all, no matter how legendary, just at the cost of some noname person. And the fresh uber zombie would even obey you like a slave yet still possess all the skills. Don't you think that's just a bit unlikely?

There HAS to be a catch somewhere. Although I suppose you could be correct all along and they truly are mighty and powerful but their battery life will run out in 30 minutes. I'd be somewhat willing to accept that.

[Buffalobiian]

In any case the sole reason for my arguments in the place is my dislike of that particular fight. And that dislike stems directly from the suggested h4x0r level of power of that resurrection jutsu. I mean, supposedly one could now resurrect Itachi with all of his equally h4x0r sharingan powers. Or Jiraiya. Or anybody at all, no matter how legendary, just at the cost of some noname person. And the fresh uber zombie would even obey you like a slave yet still possess all the skills. Don't you think that's just a bit unlikely?

I do. Which is why, for one reason or another, we've only been shown it once.

The technique is either:

a) Not common knowledge, or
b) Not feasible by the common person.


There HAS to be a catch somewhere. Although I suppose you could be correct all along and they truly are mighty and powerful but their battery life will run out in 30 minutes. I'd be somewhat willing to accept that.

Hmm. I didn't think of that one.

[Archangel]

This thread got pretty popular eh?

[DarthEnderX]

There HAS to be a catch somewhere. Although I suppose you could be correct all along and they truly are mighty and powerful but their battery life will run out in 30 minutes. I'd be somewhat willing to accept that.That doesn't seem very likely. At least from the perspective of Orochimaru's offer to Tsunade.

"If you heal my arms and provide me with two corpses, I can bring your boyfriend and your brother back from the dead....for a half hour."

Not a very good bargain.

[Pandadice]

I thought that resurrection jutsu was something that Orochimaru invented? So like, if he personally created the jutsu, then no one else other than him (and potentially Kabuto I guess) would have any idea of how it works.

[Archangel]

I thought that resurrection jutsu was something that Orochimaru invented? So like, if he personally created the jutsu, then no one else other than him (and potentially Kabuto I guess) would have any idea of how it works.
Like that ever stopped gotwoot of creating its own arbitrary rules for how they think it should work

[Kraco]

That doesn't seem very likely. At least from the perspective of Orochimaru's offer to Tsunade.

"If you heal my arms and provide me with two corpses, I can bring your boyfriend and your brother back from the dead....for a half hour."

Not a very good bargain.

Orochimaru is a major villain of the story. Anything he says should be taken just like MS's own evaluation of the Xbox 360's structural integrity.

[LunaticCat]

Hey guys,

it's nice that you discuss forbidden jutsus and so on, but did you ever consider that Kishi just didnt think this far ahead? I mean, he came up with the Bijuu thing after introducing Gaara. He's just human, after all.

(Hope I won't get to many negativ reps, just b/c I doubted the master's voice :rolleyes: )

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, he came up with the Bijuu thing after introducing Gaara. He's just human, after all.You think so? Or did he say so?

Either way, didn't know that.

[LunaticCat]

You think so? Or did he say so?

Either way, didn't know that.

I think I read it somewhere in this (or another) forum (years ago, before I was a member). it was the explanation for why the one-tails is called Shukaku and the Kyuubi has no other name - because the author came up with the idea of the tailed beasts later and he needed a name for the funky racoon (they never called it one-tails in the "original" Naruto).

but I'm not 100% sure. after all, it wasn't Kishimoto who told me...

[DarthEnderX]

Wouldn't surprise me either way.

Especially when you consider how long it took him to explain elements to the audience, or how long it took them to reveal what exactly makes Jirayai a "Sage".

[Kagari]

fuck all the haters, I thought this episode was boss.

Filler bla bla bla well I'd rather a full 20 min fight that is more realized, since we are using a different medium that allows for more to go on.

Just cause they added scenes that weren't drawn doesn't detract from the story or make it "not what happened" it's expanding the story in a way that doesn't change the story.

The animation? GTFO if you criticize this team. Every single episode they've done has had weird moments, funky facial expressions, etc... it's a trademark, and it brings us fast action that doesn't look like Gai vs. Clones

Anyway ppl will never be pleased, this is one of the best shippuden eps, one of the top of all time I'm sure for many.

All in all i liked it alot!!! Now i'm upset we gotta wait 2 weeks ><

[DarthEnderX]

Filler bla bla bla well I'd rather a full 20 min fight that is more realized, since we are using a different medium that allows for more to go on.

Just cause they added scenes that weren't drawn doesn't detract from the story or make it "not what happened" it's expanding the story in a way that doesn't change the story.Bullshit it doesn't change the story!

I'm all for adding more action to a fight scene, but not when the additions are in direct violation of this previously established, half of which create straight up plot holes.

1. They gave the Kyuubi fire attacks. He doesn't have fire attacks. But they've never stated he DOESN'T have fire attacks, so this one isn't so bad.

2. They gave Pain water attacks. Even though they specifically stated each Pain is only able to use one specific kind of power. Giving him attacks not related to his Push/Pull powers is a plot hole. And the only reason they did that was so they could flood the battlefield. Because apparently, this animation team is completely incapable of creating any fight scene that doesn't take place on top of a lake.

3. They made Pain's Push field able to absorb a continuous barrage of attacks. After they went out of their way to establish that it has a 5 second recharge after repelling an attack. That is a plot hole. And considering that that was the weakness that Kakashi fucking DIED to discover, it's not just a plot hole, but a massive FUCK YOU to ignore it.

4. They made the last Pain able to withstand 20 times as much damage as the other 5. Some are using the excuse that it's a corpse, but if that mattered, then the other 5 wouldn't have all gone down in single attacks. Other's are saying "Well since it's the last/most important Pain, Nagato must making it extra tough". Guess what, if the viewer has to pull abilities out of their ass to explain why you did something, THAT'S A PLOT HOLE!

5. They adding a ton of scenes showing the Pain body becoming enraged or is shown struggling to use it's powers. This is in direct contrast to how its supposed to be. While Nagato main be angry or struggling, the Pains never show those reactions. Because the Pains do not mimic Nagato's movements, they do what he commands them to. So having Pain straining and screaming while he's trying to create that meteor means that Nagato would be commanding it to do that. Which would mean that while he's supposed to be concentrating on making his Meteor, he's using part of his focus to make his puppet making faces. Not really a plothole, but it undermines the eerieness of Pain being the villain that doesn't react to anything that happens.

So yeah, I'd say they did plenty to fuck up the story.


And sorry, but the animation WAS shit. The other episodes done by this team are great. In this one it is shit. It is NOT the same. And people are giving it a pass just because it's the same team when it is flat out not as good as their previous episodes.

[redcat]

3. They made Pain's Push field able to absorb a continuous barrage of attacks. After they went out of their way to establish that it has a 5 second recharge after repelling an attack. That is a plot hole. And considering that that was the weakness that Kakashi fucking DIED to discover, it's not just a plot hole, but a massive FUCK YOU to ignore it.

just imo on this one. he sustained his push long enough to stop them all. the cooldown starts after that. he didnt push each individual one with its own push. the cooldown started after the first barrage, and the 2nd one hit him, because thats when he was on cooldown.

[Buffalobiian]

The animation? GTFO if you criticize this team. Every single episode they've done has had weird moments, funky facial expressions, etc... it's a trademark, and it brings us fast action that doesn't look like Gai vs. Clones

I see.

Then that makes everything perfectly fine.

[DarthEnderX]

just imo on this one. he sustained his push long enough to stop them all. the cooldown starts after that. he didnt push each individual one with its own push. the cooldown started after the first barrage, and the 2nd one hit him, because thats when he was on cooldown.But that's also not how the power works.

It's not a force field bubble, it's literally a push. He blasts force outwards in all directions. It only deflects those attacks that were in the air when he activates the push. Like the second time he uses it, all those Konoha ninja attacked him at once and he was able to deflect all their attacks because they were all going to hit at once and all got blasted away by a single push.

[redcat]

well I disagree. I know he usually used smaller bursts of a push for most attacks cause thats all the was required and would take less effort/chakra. but im pretty sure sustaining the push over time is what would cause it to have a cooldown longer than 5 seconds. you could also see when he tried to push kyuubi naruto away, after a few seconds of pushing he eventually pushed himself away. also the fact that his universal pull to make that big ball of dirt was one long pull and not just a series of bursts.

[Buffalobiian]

well I disagree. I know he usually used smaller bursts of a push for most attacks cause thats all the was required and would take less effort/chakra. but im pretty sure sustaining the push over time is what would cause it to have a cooldown longer than 5 seconds. you could also see when he tried to push kyuubi naruto away, after a few seconds of pushing he eventually pushed himself away. also the fact that his universal pull to make that big ball of dirt was one long pull and not just a series of bursts.

I don't think Planetary Destruction was cannon, so it'll be hard pushed to call it fact.

But the push that wiped out Konoha, from memory, was sustained. It was on a different scale compared to everything else, but the same rules probably apply if all the Pains indeed have just one ability.

[DarthEnderX]

No, Planetary Destruction was definitely in the manga.

I don't see any evidence that the village one was any more sustained that his normal ones. It was a single blast that traveled outwards. Yes, it took a while, but that looked less like him pushing continuously, and more like one giant blast, that just took that long to travel all the way out to the edge of the village.


well I disagree. I know he usually used smaller bursts of a push for most attacks cause thats all the was required and would take less effort/chakra. but im pretty sure sustaining the push over time is what would cause it to have a cooldown longer than 5 seconds. you could also see when he tried to push kyuubi naruto away, after a few seconds of pushing he eventually pushed himself away. also the fact that his universal pull to make that big ball of dirt was one long pull and not just a series of bursts.The pull obviously behaves differently than the push. From the first time he tried to pull Kakashi in, it was obvious it could be sustained.

As far as the "longer than five second" the only time it's had a longer cooldown was when he used it to destroy the village. And the extra long cooldown on that was obviously because...yeah, he used it on the whole village.

[depthcharge]

Just to note, if Pain had not used his Giant push to destroy Konoha before Sage Naruto appeared. The Push/Pull Pain would have wiped Sage Naruto's ass, since he didnt have to wait for his cool down to clear.

[DarthEnderX]

Just to note, if Pain had not used his Giant push to destroy Konoha before Sage Naruto appeared. The Push/Pull Pain would have wiped Sage Naruto's ass, since he didnt have to wait for his cool down to clear.Yeah, probably. All six at once with the main Pain still powered up?

The end result would have probably been the same though. He get's his ass kicked, Hinata comes to save him and gets taken down, then the Fox defeats Pain.

I doubt adding the other 5 Pains would have really altered the end result once the Fox was in play.

[Archangel]

Not to mention naruto already had the inside scoop on all of pain's powers

Pain got shafted on this one, no doubt about it

[KrayZ33]

This is in direct contrast to how its supposed to be. While Nagato main be angry or struggling, the Pains never show those reactions.

thats not true, well maybe in the manga ( don't know) but in the anime we've seen them smiling after that soul guy-pain took out some random ninja, and the first summoner-pain really felt pain when he was trapped in jirayas waterbubble.
unlike the second summoner (lol oh wow, naruto doesn't make sense, who would've thought *that*....)

So having Pain straining and screaming while he's trying to create that meteor means that Nagato would be commanding it to do that.

that would also mean, that nagato "commands" his last pain-body to talk to himself even though noone is near it
so it's most likely happening subconsciously


And sorry, but the animation WAS shit.

thats not true, it was just extremely exaggerated, you either like it, hate it, or accept it... but not something we haven't seen already.
Gurren Lagann for example, was full of such weird-over-the-top scenes.

however this episode had some really, really good camera angles
which made the fight look very cool

[DarthEnderX]

thats not true, it was just extremely exaggerated, you either like it, hate it, or accept it... but not something we haven't seen already.I remember the first time those guys made me go WTF. It was the Naruto Torpedos in Naruto vs. Sasuke 2. I was loving the character distortion up until that point, and that scene just cause me to pause and question what the hell I was looking at. But it only lasted a few seconds, so I just shrugged it off.

The first ten minutes of this episode were like wall to wall Narutorpedos.

[antiravage]

2. They gave Pain water attacks. Even though they specifically stated each Pain is only able to use one specific kind of power. Giving him attacks not related to his Push/Pull powers is a plot hole. And the only reason they did that was so they could flood the battlefield. Because apparently, this animation team is completely incapable of creating any fight scene that doesn't take place on top of a lake.


Watch the episodes of Jiraiya invading Pain's village again. He uses a water jutsu then, and that wasn't the only jutsu not related to gravity that he has used. For example, he summoned the akatsuki statue back during the Gaara arc. The "each Pain can only use one power" is a supposition of the konoha ninjas that was never confirmed by Pain (the one who knows his powers better than anyone). Animal Realm, the body that supposedly can only summon, was seen using the substitution jutsu against Jiraiya, and I already checked it and it's not filler.



3. They made Pain's Push field able to absorb a continuous barrage of attacks. After they went out of their way to establish that it has a 5 second recharge after repelling an attack. That is a plot hole. And considering that that was the weakness that Kakashi fucking DIED to discover, it's not just a plot hole, but a massive FUCK YOU to ignore it.
That was a weakness when Nagato was controlling all of the bodies at the same time. As we have seen when Nagato destroyed Konoha, the five sec rule won't always apply because he had to wait much more than that before he got his powers back. It is likely that the stronger the pull or push, the longer is the recharge time.



4. They made the last Pain able to withstand 20 times as much damage as the other 5. Some are using the excuse that it's a corpse, but if that mattered, then the other 5 wouldn't have all gone down in single attacks. Other's are saying "Well since it's the last/most important Pain, Nagato must making it extra tough". Guess what, if the viewer has to pull abilities out of their ass to explain why you did something, THAT'S A PLOT HOLE!
Pain had already survived direct hits from both Sage Naruto and Sage Jiraiya. They are extremely resistant to physical attacks. But wait, rasengan did the job, right? Well, that can be explained by how rasengan affects the insides of a person, which is a better way of destroying the black rods Nagato needs in order to control Pain. Pain does not feel any Pain, physical attacks, which was what the Kyuubi mainly used, seems not to work on him.



And sorry, but the animation WAS shit. The other episodes done by this team are great. In this one it is shit. It is NOT the same. And people are giving it a pass just because it's the same team when it is flat out not as good as their previous episodes.
This is funny considering the fact that we had way worse than this episode during this arc. Save for Pain vs Kakashi (which had bad art here and there but it was okay), this arc has been shit, plain and simple. This episode was one of the best ones and puts 163 and 164 (which looked like a slide-show episode) to shame.

[Pandadice]

166 was pretty awesome too. Hinata vs Pain reminded me of 85, when it was Kakashi vs the akatsuki guys

[LunaticCat]

Watch the episodes of Jiraiya invading Pain's village again. He uses a water jutsu then, and that wasn't the only jutsu not related to gravity that he has used. For example, he summoned the akatsuki statue back during the Gaara arc. The "each Pain can only use one power" is a supposition of the konoha ninjas that was never confirmed by Pain (the one who knows his powers better than anyone). Animal Realm, the body that supposedly can only summon, was seen using the substitution jutsu against Jiraiya, and I already checked it and it's not filler.

I couldn't find the scene were he used water jutsu.can you please tell me wich ep/min is it?



This is funny considering the fact that we had way worse than this episode during this arc. Save for Pain vs Kakashi (which had bad art here and there but it was okay), this arc has been shit, plain and simple. This episode was one of the best ones and puts 163 and 164 (which looked like a slide-show episode) to shame.

well, but this is funny, too. you're telling this with your understanding of what art is and how an anime should look like. but you complain other opinions.
( actually this makes the whole discussion meaningless ;) )

I liked 163's rough animation much better than 167's floating. and eg. Picasso's cubism isn't less artistic than artists who paint more detailed.

[Archangel]

Watch the episodes of Jiraiya invading Pain's village again. He uses a water jutsu then, and that wasn't the only jutsu not related to gravity that he has used.

For example, he summoned the akatsuki statue back during the Gaara arc. The "each Pain can only use one power" is a supposition of the konoha ninjas that was never confirmed by Pain (the one who knows his powers better than anyone).

Animal Realm, the body that supposedly can only summon, was seen using the substitution jutsu against Jiraiya, and I already checked it and it's not filler.

This? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/368/12/

He just force pushed the clouds away, we just didn't know about his powers yet so it made it look like he had godly powers, just as Aizen Kishimoto planned

That... i can't explain it without spoiling but there's a reason for that

And ofc they can use the substitution jutsu, they can also walk on water and probably do a bunch of other basic ninja moves

[Shadow Skill]

Pain mentions the sage of the 6th paths all the time.

I think what is confusing people for them having one skill is "One Path skill of the 6 paths"

Which is why there is 6 of them.. Their element Chakra doesnt matter is my opinion. Meaning, they can use as many elements as they want, yes? Am I wrong here?

So Yahiko Pain can use Water, fire, earth, ice etc etc. That is my thoughts. No flames please.


As for Kyuubi having fire attacks, as a demon fox, wouldnt he know all about elements and certain skills, you know... being thousands of years old. :P

I don't see these plotholes other people see. I see continuation of the story.

[antiravage]

This? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/368/12/

He just force pushed the clouds away, we just didn't know about his powers yet so it made it look like he had godly powers, just as Aizen Kishimoto planned

That... i can't explain it without spoiling but there's a reason for that


Naruto official databook by Kishimoto:


http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6452/225ukojizainojutsu.th.jpg (http://img818.imageshack.us/i/225ukojizainojutsu.jpg/)


Rain Tiger¹ at Will Technique (雨虎自在の術, Ukojizai no Jutsu)
Ninjutsu, No rank, Supplementary, All ranges
User: Pain

Is this heavenly net of rain, falling down and enclosing, the tears of a god grieving for his village?

A perception ninjutsu, allowing one to freely manipulate rain infused with the user's own chakra. In the village of Amegakure, it rains each week on Sunday... This rain falls from rain clouds, formed with Pain's own chakra. During this technique, the falling raindrops are closely linked to pain's senses. When the rain is obstructed by a chakra belonging to someone not of the village, the existence of the intruder can be detected. Also, in order to function in the "place" where the technique was invoked, the rain will keep on falling until Pain uses the seal to cancel it. Therefore, when Pain leaves the village, he always uses this technique, keeping a close eye on the village of Amegakure.

[picture of Pain using this technique]
→When Pain unleashes the technique, the rain falls. The hunt for intruders begins...

Covering the village is a strict, vigilant net!!

[picture of the rain falling down on Amegakure]
↑The rain seems convenient for infiltrating. However, it is a definite trap.

¹ The tiger is well-known for its ferocity and watchfulness. It keeps a very close guard on its cubs, watches vigilantly for an opportunity to catch its pray, and walks huge distances to patrol its territory.


http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7056/294fuuinjutsugenryuukyu.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/i/294fuuinjutsugenryuukyu.jpg/)


Sealing Technique: Phantom¹ Dragons Nine Consuming Seals (封印術・幻龍九封尽, Fuuinjutsu: Genryuu Kyuufuujin)
Ninjutsu, Fuuinjutsu, S-rank, Supplementary
User: Pain

The captured jinchuuriki² are generally sealed inside this giant statue!

The users are ten of the greatest shinobi. With all members deeply concentrating, the sealing statue is started up and with the "absorption chakra" released from the mouth, the Bijuu's³ chakra is extracted and then sealed. The chakra of the "Bijuu" is massive; the invocation of this technique spans several days, even for Akatsuki-class users. For regular shinobi, even just starting up the statue would be impossible.

[picture of the nine dragons emerging from the statue's mouth]
[pictures of the statue's eyes opening]
←↑The "absorption chakra" is shaped into nine dragons and the chakra of the "Bijuu" is consumed and sealed. After the sealing is complete, the statue opens his eyes.

¹ The "gen" in "Genryuu" is the same as the "gen" in "genjutsu". It means "phantom" or "illusion" and although it is usually translated as "illusion," I went with "phantom" here since it fits better in my opinion; although the dragons are ethereal, they are not illusionary.
² Jinchuuriki (人柱力) means the "power of human sacrifice". They're the hosts of the Bijuu.
³ Bijuu (尾獣), the "Tailed Beasts".


These two techniques have nothing to do with gravity and yet the main Pain uses them.



And ofc they can use the substitution jutsu, they can also walk on water and probably do a bunch of other basic ninja moves
So in other words, the konoha nins were wrong when they concluded they could only use their powers. One of the Pains using something other than his powers is enough for us to conclude that they were wrong.

[Buffalobiian]

Actually... they've never used substitution.

Walking on water's a bit of a push to call it a 'technique" since it only involves controlling a constant output of chakra from your feet. It's like calling tree-walking, or even chakra molding a technique in itself.

[DarthEnderX]

lots of wordsWith the exception of the statue summons, every "explanation" you gave is stuff you completely made up. There's no evidence that any of those things are how they work.

Yes, anything at all can be explained if the viewer is allowed to just make shit up to explain it. If you have to pull stuff out of your ass to explain something though, it's still a plot hole.



I don't see these plotholes other people see. I see continuation of the story.That's the point. The animation studio shouldn't be trying to "continue the story". What if they're writing shit that's in direct confrontation with something Kishimoto intends to write? Or worse, is in direct confrontation with something he's ALREADY written. Which is exactly what happened.

Giving the fox elemental attacks is fine if Kishimoto intends for it to be able to do it. Maybe he had a very good, very specific reason why the Kyuubi didn't have them yet. Maybe the animators just ruined that now because their giving things powers they shouldn't have.

There's no reason they even needed to add fire attacks. Blasts of red chakra would have worked just as well.

[Mugen]

thats not true, it was just extremely exaggerated, you either like it, hate it, or accept it... but not something we haven't seen already.
Gurren Lagann for example, was full of such weird-over-the-top scenes.

how can you even compare gurren lagann to this episode...

[Shadow Skill]

Ohhh, I see.

Do we know for certain the studio is not in direct verbal communication with Kishimoto?

I can't see them going ahead and doing what they want without his input. :/

You're positive they werent just chakra balls and a chakra laser beam?

[Buffalobiian]

I can't see them going ahead and doing what they want without his input. :/

You're positive they werent just chakra balls and a chakra laser beam?

I always thought they were chakra balls and chakra laser beams.

Much like its arms, that thing just flings pure chakra around.

[DarthEnderX]

They looked like fire to me. Also SOUNDED like fire. Also, a couple times they melted rocks.

The Kyuubi's chakra attacks are actually usually black with red highlights. The fire attacks were just straight up orange flames.

[KrayZ33]

They looked like fire to me. Also SOUNDED like fire. Also, a couple times they melted rocks.

The Kyuubi's chakra attacks are actually usually black with red highlights. The fire attacks were just straight up orange flames

the kyuubi's chakra burns away naruto's skin and everything else it touches
during the fight against Oro he used his fire-lazer too, so its nothing new

the kyuubi's raw chakra seems to be that way.
it always looked like magma anyway, even (or especially) during naruto's 1-tailed form

[chambers]

This fight was just insane, i read the manga and i dont remeber it being so OTT.... i mean what the fuck, the power levels of the people involved in this fight are unreal..... why exactley does pain even fucking WANT the tailed beasts if he can basically defeat the current hokage, a legendary sannin, a possible future hokage in kakashi, elude capture by an ENTIRE village's worth of security and lay waste to said village with only a moments notice... what exactley is the point in gaining MORE power then being basically undefeatable....even the nine tails seems evenley matched against one pain, imagine if there were all 6 of them up at one time could the nine tails compete with that? could naruto have competed with that...


Itachi, sasuke, madara, other hokage, other villages (given that its been said a couple times that the leaf is the strongest, or close to it) how could they possibly hope to compete with pain? even comparing the other akatsuki members there worth on the battle field is just pathetic compared to the destruction pain can give out and id likley say pain could fight and kill every single one of the dead akatsuki members.

[Artris]

This fight was just insane, i read the manga and i dont remeber it being so OTT.... i mean what the fuck, the power levels of the people involved in this fight are unreal..... why exactley does pain even fucking WANT the tailed beasts if he can basically defeat the current hokage, a legendary sannin, a possible future hokage in kakashi, elude capture by an ENTIRE village's worth of security and lay waste to said village with only a moments notice... what exactley is the point in gaining MORE power then being basically undefeatable....even the nine tails seems evenley matched against one pain, imagine if there were all 6 of them up at one time could the nine tails compete with that? could naruto have competed with that...


Itachi, sasuke, madara, other hokage, other villages (given that its been said a couple times that the leaf is the strongest, or close to it) how could they possibly hope to compete with pain? even comparing the other akatsuki members there worth on the battle field is just pathetic compared to the destruction pain can give out and id likley say pain could fight and kill every single one of the dead akatsuki members.

Pain is trying to end war (or at least change the Pattern): unlike a few of the others in his organization, I am guessing that he is NOT immortal. I would even go so far as to guess that he is dying. Since he will not be around for ever it is logical to create some sort of weapon out of mythical, immortal, beasts since such a weapon WOULD be around forever. Said weapon could continue the cycle of destruction and peace even after pain passes away. Really such an impact, if possible, is far more amazing than any lasting power of an individual or even immortality. To be able to constantly control the future without even being present or active IN the future, that is THE legacy of all time.

The relationship between Pain and Madara actually may very well follow the lines of Master and Apprentice right out of Starwars. Perhaps even so far as that Madara may have saved Pain in the past (sort of a Darth Vader origins story here). I think Pain is clearly more powerful than Madara but at the same time more vulnerable to manipulations by Madara.

Nobody commented on my theory regarding the metal polls Pain seems to have an endless supply of. I am hurt.

[DarthEnderX]

the kyuubi's chakra burns away naruto's skin and everything else it touches
during the fight against Oro he used his fire-lazer too, so its nothing new
Sakura described coming in contact with the Kyuubi as it's chakra being poisonous, rather than burning.

In the Oro fight, the beam specifically doesn't burn/melt anything though, it cuts/explodes, which is what raw chakra does.

[Sam98034]

Basically, Nagato has the ability to use all 6 elements if he wants to. He could maybe even use 3 together if he's good enough. That's what the Rinnegan and the whole sage of the 6 paths thing does for him. As far as his puppet people: it's all up in the air. Either he can only use one special technique per puppet, or he builds them up beforehand to use techniques. For example, he would have to specifically set up a puppet that could absorb earth/water element chakra he gives off to use wood element technique.

[Buffalobiian]

Basically, Nagato has the ability to use all 6 elements if he wants to. He could maybe even use 3 together if he's good enough. That's what the Rinnegan and the whole sage of the 6 paths thing does for him. As far as his puppet people: it's all up in the air. Either he can only use one special technique per puppet, or he builds them up beforehand to use techniques. For example, he would have to specifically set up a puppet that could absorb earth/water element chakra he gives off to use wood element technique.

But there are only 5 elements.

[DarthEnderX]

Basically, Nagato has the ability to use all 6 elements if he wants to. He could maybe even use 3 together if he's good enough. That's what the Rinnegan and the whole sage of the 6 paths thing does for him.Says who? None of the Pains have used any elemental powers at all. He has 6 different powers. Nobody said he can use 6 elements(which, like Buff said, there aren't even 6).

So...AGAIN...way to try explain away the animators plot holes by pulling powers out of your ass.

[Sam98034]

Are you sure there isn't six? Why else was he called the sage of the six paths? Maybe there's a special 6th element? I smell a sequel to a old school movie with Bruce Willis.

[Buffalobiian]

Are you sure there isn't six? Why else was he called the sage of the six paths? Maybe there's a special 6th element? I smell a sequel to a old school movie with Bruce Willis.

Because he is/controls/becomes six entities that represent the six paths or domains in the Buddhist belief of reincarnation and suffering. (Additional information: Buddhists believe that only through enlightenment can one escape from this cycle of suffering)

The five elements are: Earth, Fire, Water, Lighting and Wind.

Elements have never been known as "paths".

[KrayZ33]

Says who? None of the Pains have used any elemental powers at all. He has 6 different powers. Nobody said he can use 6 elements(which, like Buff said, there aren't even 6).

So...AGAIN...way to try explain away the animators plot holes by pulling powers out of your ass.

I'm pretty sure Jiraiya said that Nagato was able to learn *all* *6* Elements
and if Nagato is able to use all 6 elements, then there is absolutely no reason for Pain not to use them too, because after all, he is controlled by nagato's CHAKRA.

problem solved! no plothole

[Buffalobiian]

I'm pretty sure Jiraiya said that Nagato was able to learn *all* *6* Elements
and if Nagato is able to use all 6 elements, then there is absolutely no reason for Pain not to use them too, because after all, he is controlled by nagato's CHAKRA.

problem solved! no plothole


I vaguely remember him saying that Nagato remembered every justu he taught him, maybe even elements.. but he sure as hell never mentioned six elements.

[KrayZ33]

rewatched it, its episode 131

"He who possessed the same pupils as the Sage of the Six Paths
not only mastered every Jutsu I thought him, he demonstrated the ability to achieve all *SIX* changes in Chakra Nature." etc etc.
-Crunchyroll Subs (I'm 100% sure Taka also subbed it like that)

the 6th is probably "Yin-Yang recomposition" as Kakashi stated when he exlpained the whole element-stuff

[Pandadice]

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Nature_Transformation#Basic_Types

There are five basic types into which the nature of chakra can be transformed, called the Five Elements Nature Transformations

Aside from the five basic types of nature transformation, there is also a sixth type: the transformation of the Yin (陰, In) and Yang (陽, Yō) nature of chakra.

[Buffalobiian]

Yin and Yang count?

I always assumed that these were more like "attributes" that didn't class as "nature" manipulation.

But if it says so, I stand corrected (regarding the number of natural elements chakra can be manipulated into)

[Artris]

So basically the light/dark chakra. Is Shikimaru the only example of that, with his shadow bind techniques?

Fits him well with the whole 'Knight' analogy. Light/Dark has no weakness, but no strength either, against the other natures.

[UChessmaster]

Guys... there`s only 5 elements, are we really arguing this? what Jiraiya said is probably a mistranslation and he probably meant the 6 characteristic abilities he seems to have.

[KrayZ33]

no,
nagato did fire, earth and water jutsus when jiraiya said that...

and why would 2 different sub groups (one of them are official) sub it as "6"?

what do you mean by "6 characteristic abilities" are you talking about what the 6 pains can do? that would make no sense at all.

[Pandadice]

Guys... there`s only 5 elements, are we really arguing this? what Jiraiya said is probably a mistranslation and he probably meant the 6 characteristic abilities he seems to have.

there are 5 "elements", but there are 6 ways for you to transform chakra. or something like that...

[DarthEnderX]

At this point, it just feels like this argument isn't going anyplace anymore.

The oddness of the fact that there are so many people here trying DESPERATELY to defend filler content leads me to believe that it's a bunch of manga readers who know the manga proves them right in the future, but right now, the evidence for their argument doesn't exist yet.


no,
nagato did fire, earth and water jutsus when jiraiya said that...

and why would 2 different sub groups (one of them are official) sub it as "6"?

what do you mean by "6 characteristic abilities" are you talking about what the 6 pains can do? that would make no sense at all.What does the manga translate it as?

[Archangel]

the 6th is probably "Yin-Yang recomposition" as Kakashi stated when he exlpained the whole element-stuff

Quite the convenient plot hole

[Assertn]

Wasn't the 6th like.... crystals or some shit?

[DarthEnderX]

Well, the Crystal user was a filler character, so I doubt it.

[Pandadice]

i thought that crystal junk was a bloodline thing. or some odd combination of elements.. But yeah, filler character anyways.

[KrayZ33]

but right now, the evidence for their argument doesn't exist yet.

and there is no real evidence which proves us wrong either

and you are assuming things yourself, you believe that the push can't be sustained
so does that mean that pain knows some flying jutsu? or why is he able to slowly push himself up to the sky while floating midair?
and a push that can't be sustained would mean that it is nothing more than a punch, yet when choji and his father attacked him, they were trying to keep rolling forward instead of being pushed away instantaneous


What does the manga translate it as?

I don't know, I would have no problem to look it up somewhere if I knew what chapter it is though

[DarthEnderX]

and there is no real evidence which proves us wrong either
Except for several characters saying so.

Granted, those characters could be wrong, but if I have to choose between believing things said by characters and believing...nothing, I'm going to believe the characters until new evidence says otherwise.

[Sam98034]

You guys are missing it completely. Kishi is a *HUGE* fan of Captain Planet. The 6th element is LOVE. It lets you talk to animals like the cursed seal guy, Juugo, in Sasuke's group.

Oh, yeah. Spoiler.
Did I do that right?


/sarcasm

[LunaticCat]

You guys are missing it completely. Kishi is a *HUGE* fan of Captain Planet. The 6th element is LOVE. It lets you talk to animals like the cursed seal guy, Juugo, in Sasuke's group.

Oh, yeah. Spoiler.
Did I do that right?

/sarcasm

Somehow.... this would fit. Just think about the whole "protect friends" and so on ;)

But it's "The Power of Heart" (stupid, but that's how it is)




Gaia, the spirit of earth can no longer stand the terrible destruction plagueing our planet!

[DarthEnderX]

That's stupid.

Everyone knows Heart is a combined Fire/Lightning element.

[KrayZ33]

Except for several characters saying so.

is that so? when and where!?
and what evidence do *they* have that they are able to say for example "each character can only use one ability" for example?

though we've seen 6 different jutsus from the main-pain-body already
even the first summoner pain did use the Kage-bushin Jutsu and this tree trunk-switch thingy-jutsu

[UChessmaster]

and what evidence do *they* have that they are able to say for example "each character can only use one ability" for example?

How about this? my common sense tells they can only use one ability since so far, they have only use oned ability this battle. There goes one brain cell.


though we've seen 6 different jutsus from the main-pain-body already
even the first summoner pain did use the Kage-bushin Jutsu and this tree trunk-switch thingy-jutsu

Main body Pain =/= dead Pains

Kage bunshin? as already told, Kage bunshin is a basic technique that shouldn`t be counted just like water walking and whatnot, i have no idea what trunk-switch thingy-jutsu is so, ok.

Next we`ll be arguing, talking and moving is an "ability".

[KrayZ33]

Ya.. right
kage bushin... basic.. it's B(?)-Rank, thus chuunin/jonin level.
and I guess Kage-Bushin *NO JUTSU* means its "no-jutsu" after all.

however that would make rasengan basic too, right?
because both are nothing more than shape-transformations

and the "trunk-switch-jutsu-thingy" is that jutsu where the ninja replaces his body in order to hide somewhere else.

but ok, its probably E-rank, yet it is still a nin-jutsu which ordinary villagers can not preform


Main body Pain =/= dead Pains

hurr, what is it now?
so he IS able to use more jutsus? so its fine that he can use his push ability to form some kind of forcefield? great, because I agree.

[UChessmaster]

*facepalm*

You know what? i`m not going to argue this anymore, the episode was fantastic and the pinnacle of perfection by all standards.

[DarthEnderX]

is that so? when and where!?
and what evidence do *they* have that they are able to say for example "each character can only use one ability" for example?Well, Kishimoto wrote the characters to say that each Pain only had one type of power.

Then he wrote it so each Pain only used one type of power.

But then the animators gave the Pain multiple powers.

End result:

Kishimoto writes the Konoha ninjas as observant and capable of accurately evaluating their enemies.

The animators make the Konoha ninjas out to be retards.


Kishimoto writes it so that Kakashi sacrifices himself to obtain the information that allows Naruto to fight against Pain.

The animators make it so Kakashi died learning something ultimately useless because it turned out to be bullshit.

So, yeah.



Main body Pain =/= dead Pains
I think this is probably correct. Nagato is a living breathing person, so there's no reason why he should be limited to one ability. It seems like he has the ability to imbue a dead body with one special power.

I wouldn't be surprised if when they finally find Nagato he ends up being able to use the powers of all 6 of his Pains.

[Assertn]

Clearly, Pain has more than just those 6 powers. He caught Jiraiya's chakra through his rain jutsu, and he's used an ability that allows him to channel Kisame and Itachi's chakra through those minions' dead bodies.

[DarthEnderX]

I agree I just think it's Nagato that used those powers, not his Pain bodies.

[Y]

Arkangel sarcastically recommended this episode to me in IRC. Sucks for him because it ruled. The ludicrous excesses and quirks of the animation are way better than the boring and lifeless house style that permeates shows like Naruto and Bleach and I wish this guy did more episodes.

[Sam98034]

Arkangel sarcastically recommended this episode to me in IRC. Sucks for him because it ruled. The ludicrous excesses and quirks of the animation are way better than the boring and lifeless house style that permeates shows like Naruto and Bleach and I wish this guy did more episodes.

You said it. Amen.

[Archangel]

Arkangel sarcastically recommended this episode to me in IRC. Sucks for him because it ruled. The ludicrous excesses and quirks of the animation are way better than the boring and lifeless house style that permeates shows like Naruto and Bleach and I wish this guy did more episodes.
Lol i didn't recommend shit, you asked for who was subbing naruto these days and i gave you a torrent

I did personally think this episode's animation was awful though

[Y]

Lol i didn't recommend shit, you asked for who was subbing naruto these days and i gave you a torrent

I did personally think this episode's animation was awful though

Don't post.

[Archangel]

Y's trolling aside, after rewatching this episode i feel the good parts outweigh the bad ones, it's just that the truly horrid moments were so shocking that they clouded my judgment through the rest of it

It didn't help that they made a mess of pain's 5 second rule and gave the Kyuubi pew pew lasers

[Y]

Y's trolling aside, after rewatching this episode i feel the good parts outweigh the bad ones, it's just that the truly horrid moments were so shocking that they clouded my judgment through the rest of it

It didn't help that they made a mess of pain's 5 second rule and gave the Kyuubi pew pew lasers

You called me a troll in IRC too. I don't think you know what it means. I'm definitely not trolling anyone by suggesting that the creator of, by far, the most lauded fight scene episodes in the entire series has put another good one out. I'm also not trolling when I suggest that the house style of Naruto is really boring, cheap and ugly.

[DarthEnderX]

I'm definitely not trolling anyone by suggesting that the creator of, by far, the most lauded fight scene episodes in the entire series has put another good one out.Nope. Just wrong.

[Y]

Nope. Just wrong.

Do you have any complaints about the content of the episode besides nitpicking continuity issues about whether or not Pain's durability or their respective attacks fit into the canon correctly? I don't find any of those issues compelling enough to detract from the episode's quality, especially since as Assertn pointed out some of them are mistaken.

In the animator's previous episode where Naruto and Sasuke fought, Naruto suddenly developed martial arts skills that he had never previously displayed, throwing out some actual Karate-style moves, as well as various nitpicky things like the ability to shoot around underwater like a torpedo. Is this material "filler"? Sure. Does it make for a more interesting fight scene, a scene in which continuity concerns only play the smallest part? Definitely.

The only really major issue is Pain's forcefield which could be explained away as his normal ability if you really wanted to. Let's say that the Kyuubi's attacks were pushing it back and preventing it from expanding and that the whole thing took place in five seconds.

[Pandadice]

It didn't help that they made a mess of pain's 5 second rule and gave the Kyuubi pew pew lasers



do you mean the "force field" he used to deflect the "pew pew laser"? In his fight against Kakashi, he forced his Almighty Push for a number of seconds repelling Chouji and his dad, so we already saw him hold up a continuous force. besides that his 5 second rule wasn't a set 5. It's all dependent on how much of a force he uses. It took him a lot longer than 5 seconds to recover from blowing up the city, so with something as tiny as those lasers? if he timed it appropriately then it should hardly be any cool-down time at all :\

and for the "pew pew laser", Naruto shot a chakra ball/beam/laser whatever you wanna call it, against Orochimaru. And since he was like double the power of that fight (more tails = more power, right?) is it that hard to think he could do more shots, more quickly?

[DarthEnderX]

Do you have any complaints about the content of the episode besides nitpicking continuity issues about whether or not Pain's durability or their respective attacks fit into the canon correctly?Yes. Feel free to read the thread.

[UChessmaster]

Do you have any complaints

Road runner legs.

[Y]

Yes. Feel free to read the thread.

I just divined the fact that your posts are about the canonicity of the various attacks used without reading the thread. You got me.


Road runner legs.

Great, less than 1 second of animation is offputting. I agree, in the Sasuke vs Orochimaru fight he used a much better speedline effect, but it's not exactly earthshatteringly bad.

[Archangel]

Great, less than 1 second of animation is offputting. I agree, in the Sasuke vs Orochimaru fight he used a much better speedline effect, but it's not exactly earthshatteringly bad.

Really? 1 second?

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/07/03/naruto-achieves-legendary-quality/

And those aren't even all of them

[Y]

Most of them look great in motion. I could do the same thing (people did the same thing) with frames from previous episodes. You know, if I was the kind of fucking moron who thought that freeze framing animation is an appropriate way to critique it. You might as well freeze frame live action shows to find shots where the actors are making dumb facial expressions.


It wasn't completely flawless and some bits are certainly open to criticism, but actually viewing it as a particularly terrible episode in an otherwise visually satisfying show pretty much shows that you've gone out of your way to train yourself to think that powerpoint slideshows constitute good enough animation. There's no way you can initially go from watching a well made Western cartoon or a particularly impressive Eastern one to a generic Naruto episode and think "yep, this is damn fine animation and doesn't look cheap in the least".

[Archangel]

Oh yeah those were all hand picked shots, the rest were aesthetic perfection

I'm so done with this, we're not even discussing the latest episode anymore, lets just agree it had its good parts and its bad ones and move on

[Y]

Oh yeah those were all hand picked shots, the rest were aesthetic perfection


You know, if I was the kind of fucking moron who thought that freeze framing animation is an appropriate way to critique it. You might as well freeze frame live action shows to find shots where the actors are making dumb facial expressions.

I can't just emptyquote myself so, yeah.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Thats not a bad idea.... All kinds of funny when you do it without purpose other than to pause your show.

I think everyone complained less about the Clone Wars. Not that the animation was better than this and deserved less ridicule, just cared less for some reason. And that was spread across a few episodes and just wasted time, this fight actually had substance. My guess is that you all had this moment so incredibly built through the clouds. Both anime douchbags and manga doucheballs..... been waiting for this fight for a while now, was bound to not meet some expectations.

The latest episode's fight was hard for me to watch after this one, the manga made it feel a hundred ways more epic. And thats not from nostalgia I went back and matched em up. Awful end to the Naruto vs. Pains. Thats alright tho Im expecting big things from the end of this arc.

[DarthEnderX]

Arch's link sums it up pretty well(though I don't actually have a problem with Pain's face being superdeformed by the Kyuubi's punch, that actually makes sense).

My primary complaint with the animation in the beginning is they make the Kyuubi look like 3rd Gear Luffy, which works in One Piece because One Piece is crazy fucking ridiculous. Kyuubi's not supposed to be comical.

Like I said earlier, it get's much better right about the time Kyuubi breaks the necklace, and the episode is pretty awesome from there on.



Great, less than 1 second of animation is offputting..Even one second can completely pull you out of the moment if it's jarring enough.

[UChessmaster]

So... i need to be psichologically ready, will this team animate any other episode soon?

[Carnage]

Y, if these guys honestly prefer the shitty animation in each regular episode, then just let them.

[Jessper]

This animation is what shaky cam is to live action films.

Not that the normal animation is good by any stretch, but one I tolerate, the other actively annoys me.

[Y]

This animation is what shaky cam is to live action films.

Not that the normal animation is good by any stretch, but one I tolerate, the other actively annoys me.

This is, kind of, an apt analogy. Both are completely valid stylistic choices, both are controversial, the impact of both on the coherence of the shot is overblown, and in both cases the detractors are largely being philistines about deviations from the norm instead of having legitimate directoral criticism.

None of the gifmakers fixated on things that I thought needed to get caught, like Pain sitting up from out of the ground without actually pushing himself up off it, so he looked like the Undertaker doing a stunt on a pro-wrestling show. The choreography at points was pretty lazily similar to the director's previous effort, with Pain even generating an ocean so he can do similar stunts that Sasuke did, and what the hell is he trying to accomplish exactly in the infamous roadrunner legs shot? It looks like he is getting ready to bum rush the Kyuubi but in the next few seconds he is running away.

None of this, though, really detracts from the insane energy of the fight, which is really exactly what it needed (this arc is really long and boring and Pain is a dipshit of a villain).

Hey, I got negative repped with a reply to my last post. Gotta keep your shitty rebuttals anonymous, pussy?

[DarthEnderX]

The choreography at points was pretty lazily similar to the director's previous effort, with Pain even generating an ocean so he can do similar stunts that Sasuke didThat I just found annoying. Oro vs. the 3rd, Sasuke vs. Naruto 2, now this, it's like these animators are incapable of animating a fight unless it takes place on water.

Not that I blame them entirely, high speed skating over the water just looks badass.

[Azonalanthious]

Hey, I got negative repped with a reply to my last post. Gotta keep your shitty rebuttals anonymous, pussy?

Nope, not at all, I neg'ed you. Not worried about being anonymous at all, but negative rep means a long term (if tiny) effect on your rep score, rather then a post here, which only impacts this specific thread. I disagree with the folks who like this episode's animation, but everyone is allowed an opinion and while I may disagree with them, I'm perfectly willing to limit my comments to replies there. But you are coming across as a rude, arrogant troll who is mostly out to pick a fight. And that, in my book, did deserve a negative rep rather then a simple reply.

[Carnage]

but negative rep means a long term (if tiny) effect on your rep score, rather then a post here

Haha oh wow what a faggot

[Y]

Nope, not at all, I neg'ed you. Not worried about being anonymous at all, but negative rep means a long term (if tiny) effect on your rep score, rather then a post here, which only impacts this specific thread. I disagree with the folks who like this episode's animation, but everyone is allowed an opinion and while I may disagree with them, I'm perfectly willing to limit my comments to replies there. But you are coming across as a rude, arrogant troll who is mostly out to pick a fight. And that, in my book, did deserve a negative rep rather then a simple reply.

This is some kind of post all right.

[Azonalanthious]

Haha oh wow what a faggot

For putting rep to the purpose for which its intended? Well, then sure, call me a bundle of sticks.

[Sam98034]

Dude! There's like way too many posts in this thread. This is like two episodes ago, too. Someone needs to wrap this up. A completely different style was used, some liked it, some didn't. The pace was intense, but at the cost of crisp animation. Anything else?

[The Heretic Azazel]

Yeah take those green boxes away, that will knock him down a peg or two :rolleyes:

[DarthEnderX]

Dude! There's like way too many posts in this thread. This is like two episodes ago, too. Someone needs to wrap this up. A completely different style was used, some liked it, some didn't. The pace was intense, but at the cost of crisp animation. Anything else?Of course the anime was just as shitty, in the next two episodes. Just in a different way.

[Assertn]

Pain getting hammered into the ground is still the most lollable scene in Naruto, imo.

[Archangel]

Pain getting hammered into the ground is still the most lollable scene in Naruto, imo.
Noodle rasengan would be a close second

[LunaticCat]

Noodle rasengan would be a close second

Glad I can't remember that.

[Assertn]

See, the hammering of pain by kyubi naruto is symbollic. Kyubi represents the collective hatred of the Naruto fanbase by frustratingly hammering Pain, who represents the potential awesomeness of the story's setup, in a pre-emptive measure against Kishimoto inevitably ruining yet another arc like he has with so many others as he continuously writes himself into corners.

[UChessmaster]

Rofl, i wish this thread never dies.

Edit: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it died.

[unandpw]

Found this on another site and thought it was funny. I have to admit though, the animation for this episode was awful.
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2941/1278015613405.jpg

[DarthEnderX]

See, the hammering of pain by kyubi naruto is symbollic. Kyubi represents the collective hatred of the Naruto fanbase by frustratingly hammering Pain, who represents the potential awesomeness of the story's setup, in a pre-emptive measure against Kishimoto inevitably ruining yet another arc like he has with so many others as he continuously writes himself into corners.This is news to me. Which other arcs have been collectively hated by the community?

I haven't disliked any of the canon arcs so far.

[Assertn]

This is news to me. Which other arcs have been collectively hated by the community?

I haven't disliked any of the canon arcs so far.

Some say every arc except the Zabuza Arc, others say every arc after the chuunin exam. I myself am a bit more generous, though, and would probably say everything after Gaara vs Kimimaro excluding Shikamaru vs Hidan.

Don't be mistaken, I'm not saying there's nothing good in those arcs. In order to "ruin" an arc, it has to start out with promise. Most of the shippudden arcs manage that, but something dissappointing always seems to happen near the end to ruin it.

[DB_Hunter]

Shit I havn't seen the anime in ages, just saw 30 eps in one go.

The animation looked crap in the Pain fight, put me off did take me out of the moment which should have all been about the intense fighting. Reminded me of one or two of those eps in the Orochimaru vs Sandaime fight where Oro's face was square and his sword looked like a toothpick.

[DarthEnderX]

Don't be mistaken, I'm not saying there's nothing good in those arcs. In order to "ruin" an arc, it has to start out with promise. Most of the shippudden arcs manage that, but something dissappointing always seems to happen near the end to ruin it.Hmm, the only arc I would describe like that is when they went after Sasuke the second time.

They had this giant battle between 4-tails Naruto and Orochimaru in the middle of the arc, and then they end it on Sasuke just curb-stomping the whole team in a total anti-climax.