One Piece Episode 449

[DarthEnderX]

CrunchySubs: http://www.instantz.net/site/news/One_Piece_449.html

[DarthEnderX]

This episode is made of 100% win.

Wax Robot Luffy. Hilarious.

Mr. 3 getting some props, cool.

Jinbei in the water, with Water Kamehameha, pure awesomeness.

Crocodile and Mr. 1 looking all "we're gonna rape a boat full of marines", so pimp.



I did have one thought though while watching this episode. A bunch of the guards have been armed with guns that shoot Sea Stone nets. Didn't it occur to anyone to pick up one of these guns and use it on Magellan?

[Assertn]

Definitely a dope episode. Jimbei shows why he's a schichibukai. Buggy looks like a chump next to Crocodile and Mr. 1. Mr. 3's ability was hinted at during an earlier filler clip with him and Buggy and the poison wall, but its nice to see him finally prove himself with his ability.

The bullets passing through Magellan was BS, though. If those couldn't phase him, then how come Luffy's punches did during their first fight? Is Magellan supposed to be weak to rubber the same way Enel was? Stupid filler snippet that contradicts the limits of Magellan's power.

@DarthEnder: Isn't it obvious? Only the antagonists use kairoseki!

[Sentenal]

Bullets passed through him? I thought they were just doing nothing or bouncing off, due to his bulk or something.

[Marik]

[yibis] One Piece 449 - 720p (http://www.anirena.com/viewtracker.php?action=download&id=35110) | 400p (http://www.anirena.com/viewtracker.php?action=download&id=35111)

[Kraco]

Luffy should still be able to fight better against Magellan. After all, when you want to handle potent chemicals, you wear rubber gloves. It seems to me like Magellan is getting a lot more out of his paramecia than Luffy, who should possess a natural resistance to poisons.

[UChessmaster]

Luffy should still be able to fight better against Magellan. After all, when you want to handle potent chemicals, you wear rubber gloves. It seems to me like Magellan is getting a lot more out of his paramecia than Luffy, who should possess a natural resistance to poisons.

His poison is strong enough to melt rocks...

[DarthEnderX]

The bullets passing through Magellan was BS, though. If those couldn't phase him, then how come Luffy's punches did during their first fight? Is Magellan supposed to be weak to rubber the same way Enel was? Stupid filler snippet that contradicts the limits of Magellan's powerThey've already pretty much confirmed at this point that Luffy's punches use Ambition. Or at least, that's what Blackbeard said when Luffy hit him. And since we know Ambition can hit Logia users it makes sense that Luffy can punch Magellan.

[Assertn]

Except for Smoker and Crocodile? Or are we to believe things have changed since then?

[Sentenal]

They've already pretty much confirmed at this point that Luffy's punches use Ambition. Or at least, that's what Blackbeard said when Luffy hit him. And since we know Ambition can hit Logia users it makes sense that Luffy can punch Magellan.
...Magellan isn't a logia.

[DarthEnderX]

Except for Smoker and Crocodile? Or are we to believe things have changed since then?That was many arcs ago, so yes, I'm assuming it has changed since they've introduced Ambition. Blackbeard even said his Ambition has gotten stronger, which means it wasn't the last time they met.


...Magellan isn't a logia.Since when? His body turns completely to poison. Since when can non-Logia's do that?

And even if he wasn't, Ambition is basically spirit energy. No matter what reason a person isn't solid, if they have a spirit, than an Ambition punch should hurt them.

[Kraco]

I don't think they have shown his body turning into poison. I used to think the hydra indicated such but looking carefully at those scenes, they just cover his hands, not are his hands. Besides, he had some blood trickling down his face after one of the major attacks.

But above all if he was logia, he wouldn't really have this much trouble with the escaping prisoners.

[Assertn]

And even if he wasn't, Ambition is basically spirit energy. No matter what reason a person isn't solid, if they have a spirit, than an Ambition punch should hurt them.

Having ambition isn't the same as being able to concentrate ambition into an attack that negates devils fruit abilities.

[FireEmblem]

Definitely a dope episode. Jimbei shows why he's a schichibukai. Buggy looks like a chump next to Crocodile and Mr. 1. Mr. 3's ability was hinted at during an earlier filler clip with him and Buggy and the poison wall, but its nice to see him finally prove himself with his ability.

The bullets passing through Magellan was BS, though. If those couldn't phase him, then how come Luffy's punches did during their first fight? Is Magellan supposed to be weak to rubber the same way Enel was? Stupid filler snippet that contradicts the limits of Magellan's power.

@DarthEnder: Isn't it obvious? Only the antagonists use kairoseki!

The thing with the bullets bugged me too. The only explanation that makes sense is that the bullets are melting the instant they touch the poison.

[Sentenal]

That was many arcs ago, so yes, I'm assuming it has changed since they've introduced Ambition. Blackbeard even said his Ambition has gotten stronger, which means it wasn't the last time they met.

Since when? His body turns completely to poison. Since when can non-Logia's do that?

And even if he wasn't, Ambition is basically spirit energy. No matter what reason a person isn't solid, if they have a spirit, than an Ambition punch should hurt them.
Magellan does with Poison the same thing that Mr. 3 does with Wax.

[DarthEnderX]

Having ambition isn't the same as being able to concentrate ambition into an attack that negates devils fruit abilities.Why do you think Haki negates Devil's Fruit abilities? They haven't said anything like that.

The only thing that "negates" fruit abilities is Sea Stone, the Darkness Fruit, and weaknesses of specific fruits to specific materials.

Raleigh's Haki didn't suddenly "negate" any of Kizaru's powers. Kizaru's light sword didn't suddenly vanish when Raleigh made contact with him.

When a Haki attack hits a Logia user, it works, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their spirit.

In the same vein, if Flamingo used his powers on a Logia user, they would work, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their mind.

[Sentenal]

Why do you think Haki negates Devil's Fruit abilities? They haven't said anything like that.

The only thing that "negates" fruit abilities is Sea Stone, the Darkness Fruit, and weaknesses of specific fruits to specific materials.

Raleigh's Haki didn't suddenly "negate" any of Kizaru's powers. Kizaru's light sword didn't suddenly vanish when Raleigh made contact with him.

When a Haki attack hits a Logia user, it works, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their spirit.

In the same vein, if Flamingo used his powers on a Logia user, they would work, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their mind.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but do you have any idea what Don Flamingo's Devil Fruit power actually is? Since I sure don't know.

Anyway, the mechanics of Haki vs Logia stuff hasn't been explained. Hopefully it will be explained to some extent in the future.

[Kraco]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but do you have any idea what Don Flamingo's Devil Fruit power actually is? Since I sure don't know.

Anyway, the mechanics of Haki vs Logia stuff hasn't been explained. Hopefully it will be explained to some extent in the future.

The couple of times we have seen Flamingo, his power has been to take over somebody's body movements. Some sort of marionette power. I doubt there's much more to it.

We will most likely learn more of Haki when the Straw hats star to learn to use their considerable willpowers. I hope we won't learn anything more before as explanations integrated in the story are much better than external explanations.

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but do you have any idea what Don Flamingo's Devil Fruit power actually is? Since I sure don't know.I just assumed it was mind control. Though it could be something like invisible strings or bone control or something crazy like that.

[Assertn]

Why do you think Haki negates Devil's Fruit abilities? They haven't said anything like that.

The only thing that "negates" fruit abilities is Sea Stone, the Darkness Fruit, and weaknesses of specific fruits to specific materials.

Raleigh's Haki didn't suddenly "negate" any of Kizaru's powers. Kizaru's light sword didn't suddenly vanish when Raleigh made contact with him.

When a Haki attack hits a Logia user, it works, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their spirit.

In the same vein, if Flamingo used his powers on a Logia user, they would work, because the fruit makes their body invincible, not their mind.

So the cut on Kizaru's cheek was from Raleigh cutting his spirit, then?
You're totally pulling that presumption out of your ass. When Sentoumaru used a haki punch on Luffy, he reacted the same way as when Blackbeard vortex punched Luffy. Both times he observed the pain of the impact as if he suddenly lost his rubberness.

Another comparison: You point out that Raleigh's sword did not dissolve Kizaru's light sword, however just the same, Blackbeard's darkness didn't dissolve Ace's fireballs.

I'm yet to see an example where darkness or kairoseki clearly affects an opponent differently than haki.

[DarthEnderX]

Blackbeard's darkness only works when he's touching you. And he specifically says it doesn't negate attacks, it absorbs them and he takes the damage. Why would it work on Ace's fireballs? Even if he grabs Ace, the fireballs just become normal fire, they don't vanish.

But I haven't seen a single instance of Haki being used to negate a Devil's fruit power other than someone's invulnerability. So I find it more likely that Haki can penetrate invulnerability rather than negate Fruit powers. I don't see anyone using Haki to turn a Zoan back into a human or to negate any other Paramecia powers. It's only allowed attack that the target should have been immune to work.

[Sentenal]

Blackbeard's darkness only works when he's touching you. And he specifically says it doesn't negate attacks, it absorbs them and he takes the damage. Why would it work on Ace's fireballs? Even if he grabs Ace, the fireballs just become normal fire, they don't vanish.

But I haven't seen a single instance of Haki being used to negate a Devil's fruit power other than someone's invulnerability. So I find it more likely that Haki can penetrate invulnerability rather than negate Fruit powers. I don't see anyone using Haki to turn a Zoan back into a human or to negate any other Paramecia powers. It's only allowed attack that the target should have been immune to work.
Haki apparently nullified Luffy being Rubber, which is his power.

[UChessmaster]

I just assumed it was mind control. Though it could be something like invisible strings or bone control or something crazy like that.

If i remember correctly Don Flamingo took control of Bellamy to fight his subordinate, when his subordinate asked him why, he said something along the lines that he can`t control his movements.

[DarthEnderX]

Haki apparently nullified Luffy being Rubber, which is his power.I don't know why people seem to be jumping to that conclusion. Somebody hit Luffy with Haki and he got hurt.

Why do people automatically assume that he became not-rubber all of a sudden instead of simply that he was hurt despite the fact that he was rubber?

When he was fighting Blackbeard it was obvious. He was in second gear and you could see the color and the steam fade as soon as Blackbeard grabbed him, and you could see second gear return soon after Blackbeard let him go.

Against Sentomaru, Luffy is bouncing around and Sentomaru hits him, and it hurts him. But I don't see any evidence that he became not-rubber when he was hit.

[Sentenal]

I don't know why people seem to be jumping to that conclusion. Somebody hit Luffy with Haki and he got hurt.

Why do people automatically assume that he became not-rubber all of a sudden instead of simply that he was hurt despite the fact that he was rubber?

When he was fighting Blackbeard it was obvious. He was in second gear and you could see the color and the steam fade as soon as Blackbeard grabbed him, and you could see second gear return soon after Blackbeard let him go.

Against Sentomaru, Luffy is bouncing around and Sentomaru hits him, and it hurts him. But I don't see any evidence that he became not-rubber when he was hit.
Except Luffy gives the exact same reaction in both cases? What about when Garp hit him in Water 7? Luffy's ability to be rubber should make him not feel pain from getting bludgeoned, but he still felt pain in all those instances.

[DarthEnderX]

Why would Luffy's reaction be different in either instance?

Regardless of whether a Haki punch negated his fruit powers and made him feel the punch or the Haki punch hurts someone even if they would normally be unaffected by it, the end result for Luffy is the same.

[Splash!]

Why would Luffy's reaction be different in either instance?

Regardless of whether a Haki punch negated his fruit powers and made him feel the punch or the Haki punch hurts someone even if they would normally be unaffected by it, the end result for Luffy is the same.

I think your theory of Haki being an attack on the spirit vs an attack that negates devil fruit abilities is not as far fetched as some are claiming. In fact, it makes alot of sense.

That being said, I dont think Magellan is a Logia. Luffy's haki is definitely stronger, as evidenced on Amazon Lily, but it is not at a point where he can inflict physical damage on a Logia. 2 reasons:
- I think Magellan would have made a bigger deal if a paramecia type was able land a hit on him, a Logia user.
- Luffy cant just use an ability that he doesnt understand. He had no idea how Sentoumaru hurt him. Being able to release his haki in an uncontrolled manner does not equate to executing a focused haki attack like Rayleigh.