Naruto Shippuuden Episode 157

[Marik]

[HorribleSubs] Naruto Shippuuden - 157 - 720p (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=125965) | 480p (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=125964)

[Buffalobiian]

Konoha's reaction time is horrible. Sure, they had no clue it was Akatsuki, but then shouldn't Tsunade, expecting an Akatsuki attack at any time in the near future, have ordered that intrusions be dealt with more seriously (and quickly) than a rogue ninja?

Shit looks a lot messier than when Orochimaru attacked.

[DarthEnderX]

It's probably going to be like the last time, where the leaf looks all disorganized and shitty for awhile, but then they have all the civilians evacuated to the tunnels they make an organized counterattack.


So the piercings is how he controls the bodies eh? I'm guessing maybe the Rinnegan is what creates the chakra waves. Although I'm not really sure how that helped the Sage of Six Paths create all ninjjutsu, but whatever.

So apparently, Pain had a body that specialized in summoning jutsu, which Jirayia killed, but Pain immediately had another body with the same specialization. That's kind of bullshit.

[Artris]

So the piercings is how he controls the bodies eh? I'm guessing maybe the Rinnegan is what creates the chakra waves. Although I'm not really sure how that helped the Sage of Six Paths create all ninjjutsu, but whatever.


Well if Rinnegan helped the Sage of the Six Paths create all ninjutsu, it helped Pain create this technique for controlling people. Perhaps this is just Pain's interpretation of 'Six Paths'. Though I am guessing there is a limitation that forces him to use no more than six puppets OR he just chooses to use six puppets and has each focus on one type of technique. Also noticed his summons have the Rinnegan eyes. Wonder why Jiraiya didn't notice/comment on that. This episode gave us a little peak into Rinnegan's abilities: he was able to see the barrier around the leaf village.



So apparently, Pain had a body that specialized in summoning jutsu, which Jirayia killed, but Pain immediately had another body with the same specialization. That's kind of bullshit.

Not so out there if you consider he has an entire village to draw from. Also what is to say that the body itself has to specialize in a particular technique. Regardless with his abilities is it so far fetched to believe he could have gone hunting for a desirable replacement before attacking the leaf village? I suspect all he has to do is insert enough of those rods in someone and he can control them.

Even if it were difficult, he could also just have a meat locker somewhere and store spares since apparently the bodies themselves can be revived (no soul I suppose?).

[kmkze04]

The merged Naruto made me LOL pretty hard

[Kraco]

The merged Naruto made me LOL pretty hard

I'd like to see that one fight against Pain. It would be epic.

Not really a whole lot to say about this episode aside from agreeing with Bill: Konoha was like some peaceful town that had seen neither war nor violence ever before. Smoke pillars were covering the sky already yet nobody got the clue. Then the no shit, sherlock scene of Iruka telling Sakura the town was under an attack with the huge summoned beast lying in the background. Almost beats the legendary scene from Utawarerumono.

Konoha's response was so lethargic that it removed most of the excitement from the episode.

[Buffalobiian]

Well if Rinnegan helped the Sage of the Six Paths create all ninjutsu, it helped Pain create this technique for controlling people. Perhaps this is just Pain's interpretation of 'Six Paths'. Though I am guessing there is a limitation that forces him to use no more than six puppets OR he just chooses to use six puppets and has each focus on one type of technique. Also noticed his summons have the Rinnegan eyes. Wonder why Jiraiya didn't notice/comment on that. This episode gave us a little peak into Rinnegan's abilities: he was able to see the barrier around the leaf village.

During Pain's fight with Jiraiya, he was also able to see Jiraiya activate a search barrier when he himself was invisible, which made him turn to a fully offensive summon. I think it's pretty established that the Rinnegan can see and understand all techniques. He also detected that Jiraiya was undergoing a change when he was charging up for Sage Mode. (and it I doubt he came to that conclusion solely from his toad-features popping up).

As for the comments about the new guy being able to summon things, I think that fact itself highly suggests that Pain himself can get new bodies, but those bodies still perform the same abilities. Regardless of the body, that particular "guy" performs summons.

It's a bit hard to definitively back this up since we haven't seen too many moves from anybody yet, but the above could be extrapolated to suggest that the Six Paths are six "schools", or six "styles" of techniques ninjas can use.

We've seen summoning, absorbing, genjutsu (the guy who peeks into your mind, then takes your soul)....... the rocket fellow may even be "projectiles".

[Wren]

We've seen summoning, absorbing, genjutsu (the guy who peeks into your mind, then takes your soul)....... the rocket fellow may even be "projectiles".




seems more like a puppet type technique (the rocket guy). reminds me of Sasori turning himself into a puppet-- why can't someone else have done the same?

[Sam98034]

I always figured sage of the six paths meant that the rinnegan user has an affinity for all the elements. He doesn't necessarily know all techniques, but he doesn't need a bloodline limit or anything like that if he wanted to learn them, he has the original bloodline.

[Kagari]

Konoha's response time wasn't as slow as everyone is thinking... It showed the same few seconds/minutes from different perspectives.

The centipede was at the start, then during Sakura's bit it came up again - same time.

Awesome episode. Jaw dropped on several occasions. Epic.

[Kraco]

So, all Konoha needs is a jamming device and all of Pain's remote bodies will be rendered practically dead. I'm sure in a ninja village as big and prestigious as Konoha there's somebody with the ability to block external chakra waves in any case.

[Buffalobiian]

So, all Konoha needs is a jamming device and all of Pain's remote bodies will be rendered practically dead. I'm sure in a ninja village as big and prestigious as Konoha there's somebody with the ability to block external chakra waves in any case.

Jamming devices are usually made to counter communication devices, so if such technology hadn't been developed, I doubt there's someone out there with a specific jamming ability.

But since it's just that, chakra waves, I can only imagine that it would suffer some form of deterioration if Naruto went berserk and set off his nuke.

Regarding the chakra waves, I thought it was strange for them to talk to each other about the plan, confirming who is doing the distracting and who is doing the searching if Nagato was in 100% control of all of them. And if he's not in 100% of them, that makes things even more stranger since some of them should be nothing more than animated corpses.

[Kraco]

Konan was with them. I don't think she's a part of Pain's little zombie harem, so she would need to hear the plan.

[DarthEnderX]

The fact that you have to have a frog on your shoulder really kills all the coolness of Sage mode.

I wonder though, if Naruto can just use his clones to fight while one body remains hidden and motionless gathering Nature chakra.


Oh, totally forgot about the detection bubble around Konoha. That was a pretty cool piece of setting they introduced there.


Though I am guessing there is a limitation that forces him to use no more than six puppets OR he just chooses to use six puppets and has each focus on one type of technique. Also noticed his summons have the Rinnegan eyes.They also all have the piercings, so I'm guessing his control is not limited to 6.

What would have been REALLY badass is if the body Jirayia killed had been replaced with Jiraiyas.

[Artris]

What would have been REALLY badass is if the body Jirayia killed had been replaced with Jiraiyas.

Yeah, I said the same back when Jiraiya was killed. Kinda expected Pain to use his body (I mean if powerful bodies = powerful puppets, then Jiraiya would be a kick ass choice). That and having Naruto have to literally fight his old master would be sort of awesome, as well as leaving open the potential to somehow 'free' Jiraiya.

My guess is that Pain has sort of confirmed that all he needs is a body for each path: the power of the previous owner doesn't matter. Otherwise what body would be better than Jiraiya's?

[Penner]

If Naruto were to make a bunch of clones and they all sat down and gathered nature energy, wouldn't that speed the process up alot?

But it probably only works when the 'real' body is the one gathering energy, would be too easy otherwise -.-

[Sam98034]

I think it might work, but it wouldn't be useful with a crapload of clones. Remember that his chakra is split between the clones and you gotta have a three way even distribution for sage mode. So with 100 clones it would be risky to try to take nature energy in and not have it overwhelm you. Plus, lets say someone decides to blast away all those clones: suddenly, Naruto gets more sage chakra than he can handle!

[Splash!]

Even with hidden clones gathering nature energy, there should be no way of transferring this energy to the one fighting, unless of course, the gathering clone is destroyed. But even then, I see no reason why the nature energy would 'return' to the original like chakra or experience. I would just expect it to be released back into nature.

[DarthEnderX]

The obvious solution then is to have his clones fight while the real him hides and gathers energy.

But yeah, it would be awesome if the nature energy his clones gathered transferred to him when they're dispelled.

There's just so many awesome ways to make this work, it's just a question of if Naruto is smart enough to figure it out.

[Buffalobiian]

Splitting off clones means Naruto will have to dilute his chakra across them, limiting his capacity to accumulate significant amounts of Natural Energy. Unless you're counting on having clones "pop" over time and keep filling him up, it's not going to happen.

While in theory having clones do the distraction work should work, in reality Naruto doesn't have enough control over them to make them anything more than 1-hit sandbags. So far Naruto has only been able to distract his opponents with clones for long enough to prepare a rasengan.

[DarthEnderX]

While in theory having clones do the distraction work should work, in reality Naruto doesn't have enough control over them to make them anything more than 1-hit sandbags. So far Naruto has only been able to distract his opponents with clones for long enough to prepare a rasengan.Is that really a limitation on Naruto's control? Or is it purely a limitation of the technique? I haven't seen anyone else use Shadow Clones that could take a hit. The clones themselves seem to have all the control that Naruto himself does.

The problem is that Naruto isn't fast or skilled enough to dodge an attack. So neither are his clones. And while he himself just shrugs off little hits because of his stamina and regeneration, the clones can't.

If Naruto was more skilled at dodging, his clones could live a lot longer.



On another subject, do you guys think Orochimaru was a Snake Sage?

[Sam98034]

On another subject, do you guys think Orochimaru was a Snake Sage?

It's highly doubtful. I think the frog has a special connection with nature or something. It would mean that Oro and maybe Tsunade would also have a "Sage Mode." But remember that taking in Nature energy turns you into a frog, so maybe the frog sages were originally people who first found out about nature chakra while meditating? I also think it would make a great debate, though. Oro is dead, so the Snake Sage theory is probably not falsifiable, which would make a great argument because no one can prove you wrong.

[Kraco]

Oro had some snake characteristics from the get-go. Thus, it's doubly hard to judge whether he had acquired a sage power level as no outward changes as such would have necessarily been evident. He did have some awesome powers otherwise, though, so it's not impossible for sure.

Also, acquiring a sage mode could have somewhat different requirements and techniques with different summon contract beasts. Jiraiya and Naruto's frog compatriots are rather relaxed and peaceful folks whereas Oro's snakes were wicked and voracious. Acquiring a sage mode through them could require a different approach from silent meditation and harmony.

[Buffalobiian]

From what we've seen, the frog sage mode requires gathering of natural energy before a fight. We've never seen anybody do that before.

@Darth: Yeah, I'll buy that "his clones are shit because he is shit". Guess there's nothing he can do about that then, unless he learns how to dodge (unlikely).

[lilphatboi88]

Hey guys, I'm starting to pick up the subtle hints in your responses that reveal spoilers. Can't you just make a discussion about the episode in the manga/spoiler section?

[Sam98034]

The problem is: how exactly do you respond when someone is making "predictions" you know are going to be covered in the Manga. It might be a good idea to disagree with whatever the prediction is so it doesn't really ruin it for everyone.

[poopdeville]

Is that really a limitation on Naruto's control? Or is it purely a limitation of the technique? I haven't seen anyone else use Shadow Clones that could take a hit. The clones themselves seem to have all the control that Naruto himself does.


The Third Hokage's Shadow clones took hits while his clones were sealing the First and Second's souls.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/123/07/

[DarthEnderX]

I just assumed Naruto turns into a frog because he's signed the frog contract. And anyone else that practices Sage Jutsu would become whatever animal it is they summon. Because that contract is like their "connection to nature".


The Third Hokage's Shadow clones took hits while his clones were sealing the First and Second's souls.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/123/07/Are you sure the clones are being hit there and not just the real 3rd?


Hey guys, I'm starting to pick up the subtle hints in your responses that reveal spoilers. Can't you just make a discussion about the episode in the manga/spoiler section?Then I wouldn't be able to have this discussion....

[Jessper]

Are you sure the clones are being hit there and not just the real 3rd?


The manga for that section isn't exactly easy to follow. I remember when they animated it that the clones took hits. Might be worth looking up, that had to be what, around episode 50 or something?

[Azonalanthious]

Around 70 I think - I'm certain the Naruto vs Neji fight starts in 60.