Naruto Chapter 490

[Marik]

mangastream / binktopia

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[Y]

There is surely no other option for the body in the casket than Uchiha Madara's own dead body. Nuts to you if you still didn't see this reveal coming years down the pipe.

I'm also disappointed we're still doing the Fox training. Madara is pretty clearly going to suck the Fox out of Naruto to make his super final boss monster, which means Naruto won't be using that power in the final battle and will have to overcome everything all by himself.

[Logrus]

The Kyuubi was to cute lol. Reminded me to much of my dog ahahha

Btw my left nut that it was the 4th he resurrected. Even the third got suprised and spent every effort to destroy his resurrection.

[Y]

The Kyuubi was to cute lol. Reminded me to much of my dog ahahha

Btw my left nut that it was the 4th he resurrected. Even the third got suprised and spent every effort to destroy his resurrection.

The last time the Fourth Hokage was almost resurrected Kishimoto also had no problem directly implying it was him. Why is the identity of Kabuto's trump card suddenly a secret if it's just the Fourth Hokage again?

[Kusanagi]

You don't think it could be Madara's brother?

[animus]

Yeah, I thought it was either Madara's Brother or Shodaime.

Sarutobi released the Shodaime and Nidaime's corpses from Orochimaru's control right? But, if I remember correctly Orochimaru just used his subordinate's bodies and put like special kunai into them.

[darkshadow]

Madara....or perhaps the first shinobi?

[Assertn]

Maybe the body belongs to the father of all jutsu, that guy that the sharingan and rinnegan decended from. Although its strange that Kabuto would say "don't worry, I haven't told anybody about your secret yet."

[rockmanj]

I would think it is Madara's brother from how taken aback he was. And doesn't Naruto say "Dattebyo" a lot? Maybe he will teach Bee how to use that more effectively...




Sarutobi released the Shodaime and Nidaime's corpses from Orochimaru's control right? But, if I remember correctly Orochimaru just used his subordinate's bodies and put like special kunai into them.

He didn't release them; I believe he sealed them, didn't he? I think they are sealed wherever he and Orochimaru's arms (supposedly) were. I could be wrong though

[animus]

Oh yeah, he used the death god seal ability and used kagebunshin to seal both the Shodaime and Nidaime I think.

[Logrus]

Sort of agree with you Y but it would still be a nice twist lol.

Also one more thing, you think Nagato can use the massive resurrect ninjutsu again?

[Death BOO Z]

I also think it's Madare's real body.
point of order: in page 07, they're walking inside a bone forest. what the hell are those bones? other than summoned creatures and tailed beasts, we haven't seen anything that large, and none of those left any bodies behind. how did the bones get there?

so, the seal is keeping the situation the same. Naruto can call on the Kyuubi, but he might turn crazy. who would've thought?

[rockmanj]

How long has it been since he fought Pain? It seems like they are putting a lot of power in Naruto's hands that I am not really sure he can handle. I wonder how soon he will meet B and get his training? I mean, it just seems kind of dumb to give that to him right after he went through all that emotional trauma (panic attack, anyone?)

[Rekeco]

How long has it been since he fought Pain? It seems like they are putting a lot of power in Naruto's hands that I am not really sure he can handle. I wonder how soon he will meet B and get his training? I mean, it just seems kind of dumb to give that to him right after he went through all that emotional trauma (panic attack, anyone?)

He's the main hero, he'll bounce back, rise up to the challenge... etc.

I wonder how many people Kabuto has in his army? Can he control them all at once? I just picture a fat two-sided panel of Kabuto with his entire army out about to attack one of the main villages.

[darkshadow]

Does he need to control them all?
Sasori alone brought down entire villages right?

[MFauli]

I see exactly two possibilities for who´s body that was:

- Madara´s real body (whatever that would mean, after all, dead is dead, why would Madara be still around when he´s dead?!)

- Obito

Yeah, the good ol´ Obito = Tobi = Madara-theory.

I think, the important part is what Kabuto says, right after Madara is shocked: "Anyway, you can relax...I havent told a soul yet".
That implies that whoever´s body it was, making it known to the world would have impact onto the current Madara.

I dont see how Rikudo sennin, madara´s brother or the likes would have such an impact. However, making it known that Madara is actually Konoha´s Obito, would mean something imo. Especially if it gives Madara´s enemies hints about his past and how he obtained his current powers.

[TwisT]

I think it's Madara's body. That might be the reason why Madara seems to be impervious or immune to attacks. And why he needed Sasuke to kill the-wannabe-hokage (forgot his name) because he can't do it by himself. Have we even seen Madara deal any damage so far? All i can remember is him teleporting himself and others and having all attacks pass right though himself.

If it's not his body i would guess it's his Brother. Can't see how The Forth would make such an impact on Madara. And i refuse to even consider the possibility of Obito. He is dead and has no link what-so-ever to Madara (and if it would turn out to be him then i am 100% sure that Kubo has taken over Naruto).

[Idealistic]

Sigh..... Naruto should have been doing this with Jiraiya from the start. Except Kishi brings in some bullshit that gives us like another 200 chapters for nothing filled with some ups and mostly downs.

And what the fuck about that hax training? I mean.... why the hell would you need the 9-tails when you got that hyperbolic time jutsu training crap?

Jeez.......

First Naruto goes off with Jiraiya making us think he's actually going to learn to control the 9-tails, then we go trolled. Then Kishi pulls hax training out of his ass, then it wasn't enough. Naruto needed frog mode too. Now he has to go back and rely on the 9-tails.

Trollercoaster.

[Sidnne]

I see exactly two possibilities for who´s body that was:

- Madara´s real body (whatever that would mean, after all, dead is dead, why would Madara be still around when he´s dead?!)

- Obito


That's exactly what I was thinking when I read those pages.

Although it's more likely it was Madara's real body, because I'm pretty certain that the body that is Tobi is Obito's.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

I guess that it is safe to assume that Kabuto is going to be the end all boss in this show now. I mean he certainly is holding alot of cards atm.

I also agree that its either Madara's body or Obito.

[Sidnne]

I guess that it is safe to assume that Kabuto is going to be the end all boss in this show now.

That would only be fitting, because I feel Orochimaru was the one of the best main villains any series ever had. And the way he "died" was shameful.

[kashim]

I think it's Madara's body. That might be the reason why Madara seems to be impervious or immune to attacks. And why he needed Sasuke to kill the-wannabe-hokage (forgot his name) because he can't do it by himself. Have we even seen Madara deal any damage so far? All i can remember is him teleporting himself and others and having all attacks pass right though himself.

The reason he cant be attacked is because his sharringan controls time/space thats why he isnt able to defend/attack at the same time. You see this both when he meets naruto and gang in the forest and when kakashi was about to do his MS on him.

I also believe that its either his real body or someone we havent been introduced to yet. i am thinking its someone who knows more secrets of the uchiha and about tobi. like when he said that a certain tech danzo was using (izanagi (sp)) how does he know of such forbidden tech even to his clan? some one had to do it for it to be forbidden... either way its gotta be someone that even madara is supriced about.

[Sam98034]

Well, there's always the chance that "that" body is Madara and Tobi just isn't Madara at all, but someone else. Kishi has been forshadowing Tobi being someone else. Tobi is "allegedly" Madara, no conformation. And according to Itachi, the guy is a liar.

[Sidnne]

The reason he cant be attacked is because his sharringan controls time/space thats why he isnt able to defend/attack at the same time. You see this both when he meets naruto and gang in the forest and when kakashi was about to do his MS on him.

I also believe that its either his real body or someone we havent been introduced to yet. i am thinking its someone who knows more secrets of the uchiha and about tobi. like when he said that a certain tech danzo was using (izanagi (sp)) how does he know of such forbidden tech even to his clan? some one had to do it for it to be forbidden... either way its gotta be someone that even madara is supriced about.

This is one of the biggest "No Shit" posts in the history of Gotwoot. :rolleyes:

[Sam98034]

This is one of the biggest "No Shit" posts in the history of Gotwoot. :rolleyes:

Well, in my opinion, it's either Madara's body, someone who hasn't been introduced before, or someone who has been introduced before.

[Assertn]

I think YTheAlien is in the last casket. It's obvious.

[Death BOO Z]

I think it's Madara's body. That might be the reason why Madara seems to be impervious or immune to attacks. And why he needed Sasuke to kill the-wannabe-hokage (forgot his name) because he can't do it by himself. Have we even seen Madara deal any damage so far? All i can remember is him teleporting himself and others and having all attacks pass right though himself.

If it's not his body i would guess it's his Brother. Can't see how The Forth would make such an impact on Madara. And i refuse to even consider the possibility of Obito. He is dead and has no link what-so-ever to Madara (and if it would turn out to be him then i am 100% sure that Kubo has taken over Naruto).

the greatest link still holds:
Kakashi and Madare both have the same type of M.Sharingan. space wrap. they both got their eyes from the same source. (had Obito kept both of his eyes,,, he'd be hell of broken character), and Kakashi got his M.Sharingan (with no explanation) only after Tobi appeared, so there's probably a connection.


however, we did see Tobi dealing Damage, he's the one who caught the 3-tails. semi off screen, with Kisame.

[MFauli]

Wait, I see people mentioning Madara and Tobi as different persons. Did I miss something?

Also, what could make "Madara" make worry about Kabuto summoning "his" body, could be that Madara is not Madara, but his brother. After all, the current Madara is the one that told us all the stories from the past, could be all made up to cover something. So, showing that Madara is actually dead could make that guy worry.

[Sam98034]

Personally, I think it would be less exciting if Tobi was really just someone we've never heard of before. If by chance he isn't Madara, though, who could he be?

[Uberbaka]

It would be interesting if it was Oro himself, or Jiraya. That would mess Naruto up, since Pain never used him.

Though realistically it'll just be Madaras body or something. =/

[TwisT]

Funny thing now that you mention Pain. Just remembered that Madara was upset that Pain used his resurrection skill to revive everyone in Konoha. Said something like, "That was meant for me". If that is Madara's body it means he is already dead and that he wanted Pain to use it on him.

[redcat]

well if its an all powerful guy in a casket it's obviously alucard.

naruto gonna get shot in the face.

[rockmanj]

I think it's Madara's body. That might be the reason why Madara seems to be impervious or immune to attacks.

Not true; Torune was able to infect his arm during that fight with him and Fu; right before Madara cut his arm off.

[Assertn]

Not true; Torune was able to infect his arm during that fight with him and Fu; right before Madara cut his arm off.

Oh yeah, I haven't been keeping tabs. Has Madara been shown to have his arm since then?

Edit: Yep, looks to be that way:
http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/489-94/19

[February]

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read those pages.

Although it's more likely it was Madara's real body, because I'm pretty certain that the body that is Tobi is Obito's.


I see exactly two possibilities for who´s body that was:

- Madara´s real body (whatever that would mean, after all, dead is dead, why would Madara be still around when he´s dead?!)

- Obito

Yeah, the good ol´ Obito = Tobi = Madara-theory.

I think, the important part is what Kabuto says, right after Madara is shocked: "Anyway, you can relax...I havent told a soul yet".
That implies that whoever´s body it was, making it known to the world would have impact onto the current Madara.

I dont see how Rikudo sennin, madara´s brother or the likes would have such an impact. However, making it known that Madara is actually Konoha´s Obito, would mean something imo. Especially if it gives Madara´s enemies hints about his past and how he obtained his current powers.

Dude how many more times are you idiots going to keep saying its Obito? That theory has been disproven, the story have NOT mentioned Obito once after Kakashi's story and there is no way the final-end boss type of character will suddenly become a character in a small flashback story that barely anyone remembers.

It's like saying Zabuza's follower Haku isn't truly dead and will use his ice mirrors to stand in the way of Konoha's destruction

Ridiculous.

[rockmanj]

I just remembered that those bodies can't be destroyed unless you take their souls, and I am not sure that too many ninja (if any) know that death god spell anymore. I guess Madara does have quite the forces at hand, even without the extras that Kabutoro says he has. I wonder if Zombie Itachi will still have the sharingan?

[Sidnne]

Dude how many more times are you idiots going to keep saying its Obito? That theory has been disproven, the story have NOT mentioned Obito once after Kakashi's story and there is no way the final-end boss type of character will suddenly become a character in a small flashback story that barely anyone remembers.

It's like saying Zabuza's follower Haku isn't truly dead and will use his ice mirrors to stand in the way of Konoha's destruction

Ridiculous.


What's ridiculous is how you throw a hissy-fit every time someone mentions Obito.

[Assertn]

I just remembered that those bodies can't be destroyed unless you take their souls, and I am not sure that too many ninja (if any) know that death god spell anymore. I guess Madara does have quite the forces at hand, even without the extras that Kabutoro says he has.I always remembered that part, which was sorta why I'm surprised oro died without it ever coming up again since then. I suppose we now have a new type of jutsu that could probably handle it though; Nagato's soul-stealing technique. Now we just need another rinnegan user.


I wonder if Zombie Itachi will still have the sharingan?That's.... a good question. In fact, I had ruled out Madara's brother being in the new casket because of his eyes being removed, but if Itachi got his back, then I might just have to throw his brother out there as a new possibility as well.

[rockmanj]

I mean, if the first's zombie was able to use his bloodline limit, logic would dictate that any zombie should be able to access theirs as well. Now that I think about it, this technique is kind of broken.

[MFauli]

Regarding Obito:

Madara HAS to be someone we know, otherwise the mask would be pointless. There would be no shock value if it was a new character. And Obito is one character that would carry a certain shock potential.





That's.... a good question. In fact, I had ruled out Madara's brother being in the new casket because of his eyes being removed, but if Itachi got his back, then I might just have to throw his brother out there as a new possibility as well.


Itachi will have his eyes. Edo Tensei brings back the complete body. When Orochimaru summoned the first and second Hokage, they also had their special kekkei genkai, which was thanks to their DNA (remember Yamato), and that also worked just like that. So Itachi should have his Eyes, as well as Nagato should have everything he had....which I still dont get how it´ll make sense.

[Logrus]

When Orochimaru resurrected those two their eye werent gouged out. Itachis were removed from him. Doubt Edo Tensai restores his previous body. And also for Nagato dident Madara mention removing his eyes too? If thats true those wont be a fart in the wind anyway.

[poopdeville]

The Madara casket theory is okay, but I'm hoping its the Sage of the Six Paths. He was strong enough to seal the Jyuubi away, so that would TOTALLY wreck Madara's plan. From a strategic trump card perspective, that would do to get Madara to negotiate.

The First Hokage is an okay choice too, since the Senjutsu are supposed to be able to stop the Uchiha jutsu.

[Sidnne]

The Madara casket theory is okay, but I'm hoping its the Sage of the Six Paths. He was strong enough to seal the Jyuubi away, so that would TOTALLY wreck Madara's plan. From a strategic trump card perspective, that would do to get Madara to negotiate.

The First Hokage is an okay choice too, since the Senjutsu are supposed to be able to stop the Uchiha jutsu.

There's no reason for the Sage of the Six Paths to be kept a secret or for Madara to be concerned if Kabuto tells anyone. Same goes for Madara's brother.

You have to remember, Kishi kept the casket hidden from the reader, not just the characters. The reader already knows the connection between Madara and his brother, and the story of the Sage of the Six Paths. There is nothing to be gained by hiding either of those from the reader.

[TwisT]

When Orochimaru resurrected those two their eye werent gouged out. Itachis were removed from him. Doubt Edo Tensai restores his previous body. And also for Nagato dident Madara mention removing his eyes too? If thats true those wont be a fart in the wind anyway.

you don't think The First and The Second are untouched and unspoiled by the ravage of time and nature do you? Their body's would have been decomposed or mummified. But they could be brought back with arms legs, eyes and everything. They where COMPLETE. Not two mummy's.

So why wouldn't Itachi be complete also? After all he still had his eyes at the moment of his death. Or are you saying that it's different because someone removed his eyes after death, rather then letting them decompose? Or is it a time thing? If the eyes are removed a certain time after death they won't count anymore. If so how long is the time frame? 1 hour? 1 day, 1 week, 1month, 1 year?

That sound like a weak theory to me. Like a ninja technique would "know" the if it was a man or if it was nature that destroyed a bodypart. As far as i can speculate would be that either the summon brings them back from their prime, or from an image by the summoner (if the summoner remembers them a certain way they come back that way), or from the moment of death.

if you ask me, i think this whole thing is one giant plot hole. I don't really think Kishi has thought of these things.

[animus]

Not to mention it said the Nidaime died in a battle as a decoy to protect Danzou and Sarutobi's group. Yet he was completely intact.

Can't recall it saying anything about the Shodaime's death however.

[Assertn]

When Orochimaru resurrected those two their eye werent gouged out. Itachis were removed from him. Doubt Edo Tensai restores his previous body. And also for Nagato dident Madara mention removing his eyes too? If thats true those wont be a fart in the wind anyway.

The bodies are recreated from the bodies of other sacrificies (such as the sound genins that Oro used). Probably doesn't matter what the state of the original bodies are in.

Anyway, I think Konan took Nagato's body. The reference you speak of might have been a mistranslation, and actually meant Madara still needed to go after someone who is still living and possesses the rinnegan. In which case.... THAT might be the missing link in my previous theory that another rinnegan user can show up to soul-steal the edo-tensai bodies.

[MFauli]

you don't think The First and The Second are untouched and unspoiled by the ravage of time and nature do you? Their body's would have been decomposed or mummified. But they could be brought back with arms legs, eyes and everything. They where COMPLETE. Not two mummy's.

So why wouldn't Itachi be complete also? After all he still had his eyes at the moment of his death. Or are you saying that it's different because someone removed his eyes after death, rather then letting them decompose? Or is it a time thing? If the eyes are removed a certain time after death they won't count anymore. If so how long is the time frame? 1 hour? 1 day, 1 week, 1month, 1 year?

That sound like a weak theory to me. Like a ninja technique would "know" the if it was a man or if it was nature that destroyed a bodypart. As far as i can speculate would be that either the summon brings them back from their prime, or from an image by the summoner (if the summoner remembers them a certain way they come back that way), or from the moment of death.

if you ask me, i think this whole thing is one giant plot hole. I don't really think Kishi has thought of these things.

Agreed on everything.

[poopdeville]

There's no reason for the Sage of the Six Paths to be kept a secret or for Madara to be concerned if Kabuto tells anyone. Same goes for Madara's brother.


So you think the Kages wouldn't try to make a deal with Kabuto if they knew he controlled the strongest ninja ever? A ninja they KNOW can seal away the Jyuubi? Basically permanently? (remember, Sarutobi had to seal the First and Second's soul in hell to kill the resurrected bodies. They wouldn't die, otherwise. The reason the Sage split the Jyuubi was that the seal he made wasn't strong enough to keep it in one place after his death...)

Yeah, there's a reason for Kabuto to keep the Sage of the Six Paths quiet from the other characters.

Regarding your "meta" point about the structure of the narrative: don't underestimate the cheap thrill factor. They introduced the Sage of the Six Paths as the strongest ninja in the world, ever. Guess who would end up fighting him. Gok... I mean, Naruto.

[Sam98034]

Anyone think that Kabuto is gonna try to take Sasuke's body like Oro did?

[Psyke]

Tobi is Mandara who used the soul transfer technique on Obito.

I stand by my post back in 2008. :)

[poopdeville]

Come to think of it, unless Tobi is a Madara imposter, the last casket can't contain Madara's corpse. Edo Tensei resurrects the person's soul/chakra, and puts it in a body made from a corpse and dust and clay. Whether Madara has a body or not is irrelevant to that point -- he still has his soul/chakra.

[rockmanj]

I stand by my post back in 2008. :)

How would that work though? Don't the bodies wear out after about 3 years or so?

[Assertn]

Come to think of it, unless Tobi is a Madara imposter, the last casket can't contain Madara's corpse. Edo Tensei resurrects the person's soul/chakra, and puts it in a body made from a corpse and dust and clay. Whether Madara has a body or not is irrelevant to that point -- he still has his soul/chakra.

The caskets could've just been the bodies without souls, until Kabutoro activates them. In which case, he would immediately gain control over Madara.

[poopdeville]

Well, if it's the soul/chakra that matters (and that's how it seems to me), there's no reason to use Madara's corpse. And also, if Orochimaru could have ripped the soul out of Sarutobi, I don't see why he would bother with resurrecting the other Hokages in the first place. (Yeah, he said he wanted a battle. I guess that's fair enough, but it makes Orochimaru dumber than I thought)

[Sam98034]

Well, if it's the soul/chakra that matters (and that's how it seems to me), there's no reason to use Madara's corpse. And also, if Orochimaru could have ripped the soul out of Sarutobi, I don't see why he would bother with resurrecting the other Hokages in the first place. (Yeah, he said he wanted a battle. I guess that's fair enough, but it makes Orochimaru dumber than I thought)

Sarutobi's original body would have to be dead first, which is the case for Madara, we believe. No one thinks that Tobi is Madara's real body.

[poopdeville]

Okay, sure. So I take it that you think Madara is an incorporeal "ghost" of some kind? Or do you think he has a (that is, some) body? Either is plausible, considering his space-time jutsu and the fact that he has only been shown fighting chakra creatures. If it's the latter, I still don't see how having his corpse would help, for the reasons I posted above.

Personally, I think that Madara is still using his original body, and that his space-time jutsu has kept him young -- via some mechanism like having stopped existing in "our" space-time for long periods of time. Heck, if he phases in and out of space-time quickly enough, he could be "flickering" faster than "we" could see, and presumably age at a significantly reduced rate. For a real life example, consider that fluorescent light bulbs are OFF more half of the time, despite it looking like it's on 100% of the time (to us). The flicker is faster than our eyes can react to. If Madara flickered that fast, he would be out of our space-time (and so not aging, I presume) more than half of the time he was "alive" by normal standards.

It's not like Madara looked like a kid when we saw parts of his face. He looked comparable to Danzou when we saw him.

[itadakimasu]

Well, there's always the chance that "that" body is Madara and Tobi just isn't Madara at all, but someone else. Kishi has been forshadowing Tobi being someone else. Tobi is "allegedly" Madara, no conformation. And according to Itachi, the guy is a liar.

Tobi is obviously Obito, and the real Madara is in the coffin.







I'm just joking... I really have no idea at all. My initial reaction was that it was Orochimaru.... for some reason. That or one of the hokages.

[CapsuleCorpJX]

Wait, I see people mentioning Madara and Tobi as different persons. Did I miss something?

Also, what could make "Madara" make worry about Kabuto summoning "his" body, could be that Madara is not Madara, but his brother. After all, the current Madara is the one that told us all the stories from the past, could be all made up to cover something. So, showing that Madara is actually dead could make that guy worry.

I think you got the right theory.

Tobi is actually Madara's brother posing as Madara.

The one in the casket is the real, dead Madara.

Some storyline will come up where instead of giving his eyes to his brother, he changes his mind, kills him and takes his eyes. Then he pretends to be Madara (cause the Uchiha clan expects Madara to be the one with two eyes). That would be pretty easy to do with his level of Gengetsu.

[-=DS=-S.W.A.T3]

I think you got the right theory.

Tobi is actually Madara's brother posing as Madara.

The one in the casket is the real, dead Madara.

Some storyline will come up where instead of giving his eyes to his brother, he changes his mind, kills him and takes his eyes. Then he pretends to be Madara (cause the Uchiha clan expects Madara to be the one with two eyes). That would be pretty easy to do with his level of Gengetsu.

Would be a whole new storyline in how Madara was actually a "good guy" and that the clan had high hopes for him in that the clan praised Madara and shunned his brother...thus having the cycle of hatred continue...in that in reality it was Madara's brother that hated the Senju clan and not Madara himself...

[dude78]

i think that the body in the casket might not be the 4 th and that it is actually the sage of the 6 paths.

also when naruto speaks to yondaime when he goes 8 tails the 4th says that he sealed half of the fox's chakra inside of naruto,
so madara might locate the other half of the foxs chakra

[Archangel]

I guess that it is safe to assume that Kabuto is going to be the end all boss in this show now. I mean he certainly is holding alot of cards atm.

I also agree that its either Madara's body or Obito.
Final bosses don't hold their power within peons, that's mid boss douchebaggery