Katanagatari

[Buffalobiian]

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4189/28668.jpg

Synopsis: * Based on a light novel series by Nishio Ishin.

The legendary swordsmith Shikizaki Kiki made 1000 swords in his career. The final twelve swords were the pinnacle of his career.Shogunate strategist Togame has been ordered to recover them.

edit: above is a generic introduction from shinta's advice. Highlight below for a more elaborate (spoilerish) overview.

The legendary swordsmith Shikizaki Kiki made 1000 swords in his career. The more swords a state had, the greater success they had in the wars. When the Shogun emerged victorious, he collected 988 of the swords...but those were just practice.

The final twelve swords were the pinnacle of his career. Each of them has powers so extraordinary, one man could defeat small armies.

Shogunate strategist Togame has been ordered to recover them. She first hired a ninja...but the worth of the swords is so great the entire ninja clad defected the moment they recovered one. Then she hired a swordsman...but he kept the sword for himself.

Her last hope is Shichika, the seventh and last practitioner of the Kyotoryuu -- No Sword School. He and his sister live on an island cut off from civilization -- they have no need for money. His sword school does not use swords -- he would not want the swords for himself.

So why should he help her?

"Because you will fall in love with me."-AniDB

Links: ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10765), AniDB (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=6613), animeNfo (http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,4576,emiuyi,katanagatari.html), Official (http://www.katanagatari.com/)


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Mazui - Episode 01 (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=110957)

[shinta|hikari]

That synopsis seems to reveal way too much of episode 1. A shorter and more generic one may be more apt.

About the episode, I absolutely loved it. It is from the author of Bakemonogatari, something a lot of fans will probably be glad to hear about. I found out only after watching the first episode (although I was clued in by the title, who wouldn't), but I still really enjoyed it regardless. Interesting dialogue, witty remarks, as well as really likable characters make this a must watch for me.

Togame is absolutely lovable. Yukari Tamura (Rika Furude from Higurashi) is doing a fantastic job voicing the character. I also like Shichika's clear admittance that he is not a smart person. The contrast between him and his sister made for great humour, and also emphasized Shichika's laid back and stupid (as opposed to Shikimaru's hidden intelligence) character. While these qualities didn't really make me interested in him, the last few lines he said and the way he said it in this episode did.

"Aishiteru ze." - well said from someone who does not even know what it means.

EDIT: It seems it will be 12 1 hour episodes that will air once a month until December. That probably means 1 sword per episode. The slow release does not irk me however, since it just means that they get more time to spend on making the show as epic as I foresee it will be.

[Buffalobiian]

That synopsis seems to reveal way too much of episode 1. A shorter and more generic one may be more apt..

Very true. I felt that way too about half way through the episode. Post edited for future readers.

When I first heard about Katanagatari I actually 100% believed that it was by the same author as Bakemonogatari on the sole basis of title similarity. Since then I've forgotten the relationship though, until again around halfway where I recognised the lengthy, subtle dialogue, whereby I re-established the relationship in my head.

Togame started out feeling fairly "generic", being the usual loud-spoken loli we see all too often. Those last few minutes changed that for me though, but I'm not able to definitively say why. Perhaps it's that there'll be more depth to her than I previously expected.

Her relationship with Shichika will be very entertaining indeed.

I'll have to rewatch that episode though, since the subs left me kind of confused, particularly where Shichika mentions Togame's eye as pretty and shiny. I don't even recall the ninja talking about it.

(edit: ah, "ambitious eyes". The dude glossed over it as part of normal speech that it didn't even register as being important (esp. since he does yap away). Shichika taking it out of context to meaning her purple "eye" together makes up the confusion.)

One thing I didn't like so much was how the kanji flashes interrupted the action sequences. I suppose that's what you get for not understanding Japanese, since it'll probably be more enjoyable otherwise.

edit: it's not as bad as what I made it sound like, just took a bit of getting used to.

[Kraco]

I'm in total agreement with Shinta on this series. I loved every moment of the episode. The unique character design also was a pleasant and nicely refreshing deviation from the usual textbook designs. The dialogue was the highlight, though, no doubt. Nothing less from the author of Bakemonogatari, of course. Especially the decisive scene of Togame declaring her way of gaining Shichika's cooperation by having him fall for her. I actually saw that exact line coming beforehand once I understood what manner of a dude Shichika is.

What comes to Togame herself, I doubt she's that experienced herself. She might be just as naive as Shichika, despite having grown in a more worldly place. She even had prepapred all her talks beforehand (producing that funny gag twice), and probably has little idea what having Shichika love her means in practice. With such a jolly setting, I'm excitedly looking forward to those two travelling together.

This could be my favorite series of the year.

[Pandadice]

well I really wasn't sure what to expect. And though at first the comedy was a turn off, it definitely grew on me and I enjoyed it.

I really liked the main guy. His reactions and responses were awesome.

[shinta|hikari]

The internal monologue comments are as funny as hell. When both Shichika and his sister commented simultaneously that Togame should have practiced her sword routine until the end, I LMAO. Shichika wondering if all people from outside of their island talked so much was also epic, particularly since I was wondering the same damn thing.

[Buffalobiian]

I can't wait for episode two where it looks like they'll fight a proper swordsman. Shichika seems pretty strong, but this episode indicates that Kyotoryuu doesn't grant you steel limbs. Blocking a strike is out of the question.

Guess the pic above suggests some hard arm coverings is a pretty straight forward solution. (how the hell did I not think of that?)


When both Shichika and his sister commented simultaneously that Togame should have practiced her sword routine until the end, I LMAO

Likewise when Shichika had no idea how impressive 1000 / 100 000 swords really were. Those moments had me good.

[shinta|hikari]

Shichika is at a big disadvantage though. His art specializes in breaking the enemy's sword, but that has been outlawed by Togame. This means that he will never be able to fight at 100% capacity or even in his comfort zone. Trying to defeat the enemy while not only protecting their weapon but also fighting out of your style is very difficult, especially for someone who has so little battle experience (and weak, as his sister describes him).

[Kraco]

That only applies to the main enemies with the special words, though. I'm sure they will need to fight more than that, and during those times Shichika can use his full potential. Just the lonely Shikizaki sword wielders he (they) will need to defeat using a different style. I don't think it's such a huge disadvantage, really. If you think about it, breaking the enemy's sword is hardly a decisive practice in any manner of a martial art and thus I don't think Shichika's prowess relies overly much on it. It's just one move in his repertoire. Also, it's almost guaranteed none of their enemies have fought his style before, granting him a good edge.

[shinta|hikari]

It is just that he himself said that the essence of his martial art is in breaking the enemy's sword. In fact, it is the very first thing he tried when the opponent attacked him with a sword. This means that such a reaction is almost instinctive, deeply ingrained in his physical training and mental conditioning.

Other enemies without the special katanas are probably not really worthy opponents, and as such don't require Shichika's full strength. It is definitely a handicap if the stronger enemy gets special considerations or rules.

It is like a boxer whose best punch is his right hook, yet being forbidden to use it on opponents of arguably equal skill. No boxer would ever agree to such a fight. As someone who practices several martial arts myself, I would say it is a huge disadvantage.

EDIT: I do get your point though. I guess it all depends on how heavily does Shichika's style rely on breaking the opponent's weapon. If it is not as much as I imagine, then it won't be a critical handicap, and can probably be overcome with some adjustments and training.

[Kraco]

I don't think Shichika's old man broke any katanas when he defeated the soldiers inside the castle. And while it surely would be a handicap under normal circumstances to avoid a skill that would render the opponent weaponless (and thus potentially defenseless), the basic setting of the mission is to retrieve the swords, not beat the owners of the swords. So, it would be a mission perfectly accomplished even if they just stole the Shikizaki sword without ever challenging its owner. That's essentially why I think dropping a single technique won't be decisive.

[shinta|hikari]

Indeed if they only stole the swords, it won't matter much, but I don't think they will go around like thieves throughout the series. It will probably more like one duel per episode in which Shichika will beat an enemy and retrieve the sword. I do hope for more variety though, so stealing is a good alternative since negotiating is out of the question considering the value of the swords. I just don't see it happening often (if at all) though, simply because it does not seem like something Shichika would do. Togame, on the other hand, is another story.

[Buffalobiian]

Shichika would suck at stealing anyway.

[Kraco]

Variety would indeed be good. It would be somewhat dull if it was always a duel or two against the Shikizaki sword owner and then the sword was theirs. I'd also welcome a case or two where Togame herself got the sword, with Shichika only assisting her or distracting the enemies. She's a strategist (self-proclaimed) but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be doing anything but devising strategies - especially when Shichika alone is her only staff at the moment. I've always liked stories where there's some equality between the heroes. Togame didn't really convince me as a strategist either, seeing how it was more the ninja dude who convinced Shichika (to fall for her) and not Togame herself.

[shinta|hikari]

Is she even a decent strategist? It seems like she is more of a spoiled princess who is ill-equipped for her job, but makes up for it with her determination. It is her determination and commitment to her goal that made Shichika follow her. Togame has charisma, and may even be smart, but she is naive which causes her to make numerous mistakes, like being accompanied by an enemy ninja.

Still, if she is prepared to do anything for her goal, she may grow into her role as time goes by, and I hope that is indeed what happens.

[Buffalobiian]

Is she even a decent strategist? It seems like she is more of a spoiled princess who is ill-equipped for her job

As the daughter of a defeated rebel, I doubt she used her birthright as a means to get her current position.

And while the ninja had a different view of her intentions, his intel doesn't suggest she lied about her rank, so it seems legit.

btw, would anyone be able to explain the play on words here? According to the subs, she's a "strategian", which is neither a strategist nor a tactician. I'm assuming there's a more clever play on words in Japanese than simply making up a new word.

[shinta|hikari]

I will try to explain:

Saku - plan or strategy
Sakushi - tactician, strategist
Kisaku - clever scheme (has a devious connotation)
Kisakushi - a word Togame invented for herself

Togame explains that her job is to think of plans or tactics for more unconventional issues, or to think of unconventional plans or tactics (forgot which she mentioned, maybe both), so she gave such a title to herself.

[Buffalobiian]

Ah, that makes sense now. I think understanding that explains a bit more about her character. I can't put my finger on what, but I feel that her coming up with that is very fitting.

[Yukimura]

Not much in the way of surprises for me with this one. I didn't like Togame as a character the same reasons I don't like most characters of her type, lots of big talk and no or only counter productive action from her. She was entertaining though and laughing at her faults and failures made her carrying herself above her demonstrated abilities more bearable for me. As long as the narrative doesn't try to pass her off as an object of respect without having her actually 'do' anything herself and continues to portray her shortcomings without glamor I think I'll come out with a net positive reaction towards her character.

Shichika I was mostly positive on, I liked his badassness and pragmatism but I wasn't particularly wowed by his decision to leave everything he knows and follow some girl he just met. He is inevitably putting himself in harms way to get her out of the trouble she's bound to get herself into and while I can accept that he's not that intelligent he seems somewhat wise. My preference would be that he went with her more because he pitied her due to her past AND felt she was worthy of his help in some sort of 'atonement' sense rather than just because he felt inspiration from her determination despite her shortcomings.

My favorite char though was the sister, she seemed like the smartest person on the island and possibly the most capable individual introduced so far if she was also trained by the dad. Hopefully this first ep won't be the last we see of her.

[Kraco]

rather than just because he felt inspiration from her determination despite her shortcomings.

I wouldn't so easily download the inspiration. They are quite heavily connected in the end and their positions not all that different: Togame lost her dad and fortune, but so did Shichika (and his sister). Their family was exiled to the isolated island to live in a tiny shack (that they had to build themselves). Shichika might well have seen the connection and similarity and realised that despite everything Togame is pushing forward trying to find her own fate. I don't know why any young lad would want to spend his whole life on a small island anyway, and so this was the last push he needed.


My favorite char though was the sister, she seemed like the smartest person on the island and possibly the most capable individual introduced so far if she was also trained by the dad. Hopefully this first ep won't be the last we see of her.

It no doubt helps she's voices by the same VA as Felli Loss...

[Pandadice]

Mazui put out a v2 of ep one

episode 1 v2 torrent (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_01v2_AA36AC4D.mkv.torrent)

The TL like read the books or something, so he went through and fixed all the things.


Now that I've actually read the book, I've turned around a ton of crap from the v1, so get this version as it contains substantial changes, the least of which are the editing mistakes. It's also a brand spanking new encode so there's no patch for it.

The 12 Deviant Blades
絶刀「鉋」 Zettai Kanna Plane, the absolute
斬刀「鈍」 Zantou Namakura Blunt, the decapitator
千刀「鎩」 Sentou Tsurugi Blade, the thousand
薄刀「針」 Hakutou Hari Needle, the light
賊刀「鎧」 Zokutou Yoroi Armor, the grudge
双刀「鎚」 Soutou Kanazuchi Hammer, the pair
悪刀「鐚」 Akutou Bita Poor, the evil
微刀「釵」 Bitou Kanzashi Sai, the tiny
王刀「鋸」 Outou Nokogiri Saw, the king
誠刀「銓」 Seitou Hakari Scales, the true
毒刀「鍍」 Dokutou Mekki Gild, the poison
炎刀「銃」 Entou Jyuu Gun, the flame


The 7 Shichika Hachiretsu moves
鏡花水月 Kyouka Suigetsu Insubstantial beauty
花鳥風月 Kachou Fuugetsu Beauties of nature
百花繚乱 Hyakka Ryouran Bloom of flowers
柳緑花紅 Ryuuryoku Kakou Nature's scenery
飛花落葉 Hika Rakuyou Evanescence of the world
錦上添花 Kinjou Tenka Crowning beauty
落花狼藉 Rakka Rouzeki Scattered blossoms

[Yukimura]

It's certainly possible but I am inclined to doubt it. I only rarely notice voices and even more rarely make connections to other shows through them and this show was not an exception in that regard. On the other hand maybe if she'd spoken more I'd have noticed she sounded like Felli. It should suffice to say I would I would gladly sacrifice lines from Togame to hear just about anything else Nanami had to say.

[Buffalobiian]

The 7 Shichika Hachiretsu moves
鏡花水月 Kyouka Suigetsu Insubstantial beauty
花鳥風月 Kachou Fuugetsu Beauties of nature
百花繚乱 Hyakka Ryouran Bloom of flowers
柳緑花紅 Ryuuryoku Kakou Nature's scenery
飛花落葉 Hika Rakuyou Evanescence of the world
錦上添花 Kinjou Tenka Crowning beauty
落花狼藉 Rakka Rouzeki Scattered blossoms

I love the name of the moves. They're all in the 4-word "idiom" format centered around the theme of flower (花). It's like I'm reading those epic fantasy martial arts novels.

[shinta|hikari]

I didn't notice the voice of Nanami before (though it felt really familiar, as did Togame's), but now that it has been mentioned, I feel dumb for not realizing it.

I do agree with Yuki that atonement is also a factor in Shichika's decision. It seems he was heavily affected when he found out that his father killed Togame. Still, his comment after this realization made it seem he was more impressed by her resolve than anything, since he said something like "asking for help from your enemy's child..." It is indeed something that requires a lot of courage and resolve to do, since it is no easy feat to ally with someone so close to your parent's murderer.

Togame is indeed great as a comic relief character. Nanami's lines worked because of her. For every tsukkomi there needs to be a boke, and hilarious and cute pair they make. I just wonder how the comedy will go now that the two main characters are pretty much boke. I guess they can take turns on each other.

It is also a really big plus that Togame doesn't get all physically or verbally violent on Shichika. It seems that their relationship will be healthy for each other.

[Buffalobiian]

[Nipponsei] Katanagatari OP Single - Meiya Kadenrou [Kuribayashi Minami].zip (http://tracker.minglong.org/torrents/%5BNipponsei%5D%20Katanagatari%20OP%20Single%20-%20Meiya%20Kadenrou%20%5BKuribayashi%20Minami%5D.z ip.torrent)

[masamuneehs]

all i know is that this first episode gets an instant save in my archive. comedy, action. the writing is great. i like most the characters (Togame is pretty vanilla). and i'm a sucker for period pieces like this.

i thought the writing in this episode was better than Bakemonogatari (which i like, but i can't say it's the Pulitzer Prize winner of anime). i suppose it's because i take to period stuff more than i do supernatural, so all the babble was kinda interesting for me.

"we're not swordsmen who don't use swords. we're swordsmen who can't use swords".

see you guys next month!

[fireheart]

It is just that he himself said that the essence of his martial art is in breaking the enemy's sword. In fact, it is the very first thing he tried when the opponent attacked him with a sword. This means that such a reaction is almost instinctive, deeply ingrained in his physical training and mental conditioning.

Had to check the episode again (v2). He only said that the move Kyotouryuu: Chrysanthemum is a technique for breaking swords not that the essence of his martial art is to break swords. After that it was Maniwa Koumori that assumed that Kyotouryuu was about breaking the enemies weapons, but considering that was the only thing Shichika had done it hard to blame him and it didn't seem as if he had any alot of information on Kyotouryuu beforehand.

Personally I think another reason Shichika's going with Togame is because he's interested in the swords. At the beginning he mentioned how the art was all he inherited from his father and that he wants to cherish it. So think that part of it lies in testing himself against these swords hence why he was more interested in Kanna than Koumori. Also because of Koumoris taunts of how Kyotouryuu was useless against these swords, this is the reason I think that made Shichika want to keep breaking the sword instead of fighting in another way, in other words that he wanted to challenge the sword not the user. But gave up on it after Togame forbade him, well that's the way I see it anyway as something closer to Mutouryuu from Shura no Toki.

[shinta|hikari]

Indeed, I checked before and he never did explicitly say such a thing himself. That is why I decided to concede the possibility that it may not be as integral as I made it sound in my previous post.

[Nadouku]

Great episode, loved the unique artwork and the fight.

[Kraco]

The second act of ambition:

Episode 2 - Mazui (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_02_F33BCEA8.mkv.torrent)





- - - - - - - - --






"They may be bad guys, but that doesn't mean you can just slaughter them."
"What a hassle..."

Lines like that already mark a series great. It's so nice when the main characters are ready to kill when they need to and especially when it's a historical story where slaying in the name of the ruler was an obvious thing.

Anyway, it was another great episode. There were no parts I wouldn't have liked. Quite a lot of talk, just like in the first episode, but I feel like this particular author doesn't write empty talk at all as such, and even if not all of it was essential for the greater story, it was still fitting and fulfilled the comedic purpose if nothing else. Characters as strong as these (character personalities, not their muscle strength) enhance the silly conversations really nicely.

I was also exceedingly happy to notice that while Shichika might not be any quantum physicist, he's by no means a bore and won't let Togame's verbose ways confuse himself at all. Otherwise the dude is pretty hard to judge. It was a hassle for him to leave the island but obviously he's interested in some things out there in the wide world. I'm not entirely sure how much he cares about Togame after all, or if she's just a convenient way for him to see the world and acquire battle experience. He might be a somewhat crafty person by his own right. Though the way he likes Togame's hair might indicate he genuinely likes her. Who knows.

[Buffalobiian]

The hair scenes combine cuteness and sexiness in a way I find hard to describe, but it works. :)

I'm surprised she allowed him to lick her.

The conversations certainly weren't empty, as Kraco said. I think Shichika ended up using all those catchphrases except the first one, which went like "God loves me more than you" or something.

I don't understand the "sword pressure" thing and why Rose didn't work. I'm guessing he means the draw created so much pressure that it weakened his move (and that his lack of battle experience meant he didn't compensate for it by increasing the force).

[shinta|hikari]

What he meant was that he felt fear from the sword pressure (the mental danger, not the actual physical pressure) and was not able to commit his all into the attack. The Japanese word he used was "bibichatta" which means "was afraid/scared".

His lack of experience did not allow him to completely overcome this fear and end the match with that opportunity.

[Buffalobiian]

What he meant was that he felt fear from the sword pressure (the mental danger, not the actual physical pressure) and was not able to commit his all into the attack. The Japanese word he used was "bibichatta" which means "was afraid/scared".

His lack of experience did not allow him to completely overcome this fear and end the match with that opportunity.

Ah. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks (again?).

[oyabun]

Gyafun made me lol :D But i'm not satisfied how Uneri was defeated.

[Kraco]

It might have seemed like an easy way to defeat him but keep in mind that Shichika isn't any loser either. Uneri had a distinct edge in a number of ways but it's essentially the purpose of Shichika's school of martial arts to render those edge's dull. I'm sure the dude would have had techniques to defend himself from attacks from above but probably not techniques that would have helped against an opponent of Shichika's level. His forte was elsewhere.

[shinta|hikari]

The thing is, Uneri's defense while in that room was practically absolute. It was already out of his predictions that someone could evade his 10 slashes, much less use a girl as a stepping stone to enter the room before he could recover and attack again. His "weakness" of not being able to use a sword draw to slash opponents directly above you (which is quite true) should not have existed in the first place had Shichika not been that skilled and knowledgeable in battle.

[masamuneehs]

another good episode. i was really happy that they killed off the Backwards talking ninja early, and although i wasn't so in love with the end (they built up Uneri's last words, but they were pretty mediocre, and although I liked the progression up to Shichika attacking from above (Gyafun ftw), i thought it ended the fight a little too suddenly...)

what i really liked about this episode was the dialogue. at first i found myself a little bored with the talk about clothing and catchphrases, but after a while it dawned on me that something was going on here.

it seems to me that this show is parodying its genre, making fun of the silly, dime a dozen action show staples that it itself eventually caves to (this was particularly noticeable when Togame commented on how convenient it was that the Backwards Talking ninja was already dead, because now there would be no need to deal with the annoying backwards writing).

last time we got tons and tons of dramatic attack announcements, breaking up the action, and the theme was "Defeat him with a badass attack so it'll make my story more presentable". this time we got a bunch of catchphrases (Uneri himself delivers like six) to endear the characters to us. and, in the end, i felt that Uneri was a complete bore of a character, because he was just such a mishmash of character traits and one-liners pulled from The Lazy Pro's archetype.

i thought the delivery of this poking fun at itself was pretty subtle, too. and it doesn't hurt that the action is great, the characters funny, the music (usually) fitting, the main character willing to kill guys. i really think this will be a good year!

[Buffalobiian]

it seems to me that this show is parodying its genre, making fun of the silly, dime a dozen action show staples that it itself eventually caves to (this was particularly noticeable when Togame commented on how convenient it was that the Backwards Talking ninja was already dead, because now there would be no need to deal with the annoying backwards writing).



Yeah. When Togame was talking about writing her novel and the trouble she's having with making up an interesting character, I couldn't help but smile that it may well have been the author's thoughts at the time.

Or even that the author couldn't think of anything interesting about the character, and decided to write about how she couldn't think of anything interesting about the character. :p

[Nadouku]

The dialouge is so interesting that I actually value them talking more than the action done later on, but nonetheless both parts were done very well. Great episode!

[Kraco]

Something was going on here:

Episode 3 - Mazui (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_03_27B74234.mkv.torrent)





- - - - - - - - -



I can't deny I had some worries this series would be highly repetitive seeing how it seems to be following the format of one retrieved sword per episode (although I admit they could easily alter that and make an unsuccesful first attempt and then get two swords in a later ep). While it by necessity will be repetitive to an extent, I'm satisfied it still is displaying variation as much as it has.

I felt this episode was somewhat less dense than the previous ones, although objectively speaking the first one probably should be the lightest with the Maniwani comic relief as the opponent, but since it was the first episode, it carried certain undisputable extra weight. Perhaps the actual reason for my feeling was the lesser amount of witty conversations between Shichika and Togame. The other conversations while very enlightening indeed were still somewhat more standard as far as anime in general goes.

Even if I called them standard, I only meant the atmosphere and the lack of the goofy feeling Togame and Shichika's discussions always have. I still liked them for another, a very fundamental reason. I have always appreciated unwavering, fateful, characters who do what they have to do, even if it was wrong. Add to that the fact I oft like weird characters and destined couples and you can bet I loved the way how Shichika depicted himself as Togame's sword with a much deeper dedication than I expected.

Keeping that in mind I found it almost touching how Togame stopped herself from reprimanding Shichika after he had slain Tsuruga. I don't know if she's much of a strategist otherwise but at least she perfectly understands the relationship between herself and Shichika and how everything is in her own hands, responsibilities and regrets included, and she mustn't blame the sword, only the hand holding it if something has to be blamed.

This series kicks ass. (And makes me write Masa-long posts...)

[shinta|hikari]

Indeed, my favorite part of this episode was when Togame decided not to complain about Shichika killing the woman. Protecting the enemies was never part of the promise Shichika made to Togame when he decided to be her sword. If he had to do even that, no doubt he would have died in the 2nd episode when he fought against the Namakura sword.

Still, I am not sure how Shichika actually feels after having killed that woman. It is only his 4th kill, including his father, and it was someone who he at least had built a certain connection with. He looked extremely lonely and miserable when he was just standing there with his hand all bloody. His behavior returned to normal when he faced Togame though. Is this because he is too ignorant of his own feelings due to his upbringing to respond to his emotions properly? Or did he intentionally hide his emotions to protect Togame by preventing her from feeling guilty over dragging him into the whole mess?

I really like the hair scenes in this show. While I did not like the slapstick parts of this episode, the other sections definitely made up for it.

[Ryllharu]

I actually disagree with you shinta. I doubt Shichika feels anything from killing Tsuruga Meisai. He said it best himself, he is Togame's sword. Swords don't feel anything, they are merely tools to be used. That was the beauty of that scene. Shichika didn't care, he was being used by Togame to acquire the swords. She was the one who felt guilt and regret at having to kill Meisai. She chose not to complete her comment because it was already done, and she had already agreed to the deal. She didn't like it, and wasn't happy about it, but she knew the outcome would happen this way as soon as Meisai suggested that method. Negotiations had broken down, a mortal duel was inevitable, and with her sword, the outcome was settled.

By that point, Togame had already unsheathed her blade and the battle begun. An exchange of blows can be equated to her hunt for the original sword, the start of the fight with Shichika the final exchange, drawn out to Meisai pulling the sword and using her ultimate technique. With that, Togame had equivalently found the weakness in Meisai's technique, and applied her final strike. Meisai tried to appeal to Shichika on multiple fronts, and failed both times. Meisai was fighting with a sword, Togame wielding him.

I loved that Togame tried to win this sword via reason. If this was simply one fight after another, the series might falter a bit for me. Instead, Togame tried reason; it may have failed, but she intentionally kept her sword sheathed during that attempt. She told Shichika to play outside, presenting herself in the least threatening way possible. Even when she was attacked and saved by Meisai, she did not break her vow to keep him placed aside. He eventually told her that wouldn't be possible after the Maniwani attack, but she was determined to not let it break down. Also, Togame was the one who regretted having to kill her. Togame agreed with Meisai's principles and mission. If she wasn't absolutely determined to collect all the swords for her own ambition, she would have liked to leave them be. She wanted to take the swords without violence involved.


Lastly, I seem to remember seeing something exactly like the Sentouryuu style in another series. I can't remember where, but I really like the concept of using an opponent's sword against them and then disposing it. As a style, it was the perfect parallel to the Kyotouryuu. Both are supposed to approach their opponent "unarmed" and then abandon the sword. Kyotouryuu smashes, removes or otherwise destroys the sword, followed by a kill. Sentouryuu steals it, kills, then casts it aside. The difference in the styles is that Sentouryuu still requires a sword for the killing blow, leading up to the poison of the Deviant Blades. Meisai grabbed them. She did not fully cast them aside as she should have. She gave them away, but always kept them close. That slowly corrupted her, though her motives were still pure. She relied on the swords, perverting her style. She may not have used them to fight her opponents (like the Maniwani), but she relied on them to help her defeat Shichika. Perhaps the outcome may have been different if she had tried to use Shichika's strength against him (like Judo or Aiki-jujutsu).

But the best part of the Sentouryuu? Meisai tried to use it on Togame. She tried two different methods to "steal" Togame's sword and use him to allow her to win. So in a way, she was still true to her form.

[shinta|hikari]

I see your point about Shichika, but I also think he is not as heartless (in the true sense of the word, because objects don't have hearts) as he seems. I'm not sure if I will like him any less if he really is indeed just a sword, but I am still hoping that his comment about a sword choosing a master and having a will of its own implies that he is not a mere tool either. It may be like that now, but maybe he will change throughout the series. It is always good to have well-rounded characters that change appropriately as the story goes on.

I think that the reason Shichika (possibly) does not care at all at present is because of his lack of experience and human contact. Maybe his travels with Togame can change that.

[Kraco]

I wouldn't be so sure of his uncaring attitude as well. However, I still think he will stay true to his promise and job. He's clearly not an evil man, like was demonstrated by the fact how he helped those girls carry the firewood despite it initially displeasing them and how he asked Tsuruga about why they are like they are. But regardless of that, he takes his occupation as a swordsman and a sword 100% seriously, underlined by succeeding his father by killing him (I'd assume that was the case).

Naturally an evil man wouldn't stick to Togame like that and serve her with no personal interest whatsoever in the swords she's collecting.

If you endorse the saying all who draw the sword will die by the sword there's nothing to regret after killing the opponent. If he was wondering about something before Togame appeared, it might have been whether Tsuruga had made the right choice.

[Death13a]

You forget most important part that Shichika asked Meisai for a "give up" option instead of killing. She was the one to choose death. He was taught by his father to kill without remorse anyone who wants to kill him. Meisai had done a lot in her past and clearly wanted to die as she was no match for Kyotouryuu style as she coming at him with single sword at witch he is best at.

[Ryllharu]

@Death13a: Meisai suggested the condition, Shichika accepted it, not the other way around. Before the fight, he was asking her why she was so easy going when he was going to end up killing her. This parallels the final exchange of a fight between two sword masters like I mentioned in my post above. By that point, Meisai had already known she would lose. She failed to steal Togame's sword, her Sentouryuu had failed.

@Kraco, shinta:

While I'm disappointed that you both focused on that part of my post rather than the rest of it, there is a reason that Shichika didn't care at all this episode. He as an individual was never challenged. As I said, this was a fight between the Sentouryuu and Togame, not Shichika and his Kyotouryuu. Meisai tried and failed to steal the sword (Shichika) from Togame. She even listed each of the times she failed. She was trying to appeal emotionally to a sword.

I don't think Shichika never feels anything, nor do I think this won't change considerably (especially given the skill of the next opponent according to the preview, who's skill we have already seen in "meanwhile..." scenes). Shichika was not challenged at all in the first episode or this one. We did see considerable change in attitude when he fought the iai technique guy in the desert. He was challenged, and his pride and the pride of the Kyotouryuu style was on the line. He correspondingly got fired up about it, and felt a bit of remorse afterward because he had fought a swordsman as a swordsman, rather than a tool wielded by Togame.

I agree with the both of you that he will change and the reason he is so aloof is because of the lack of human contact. But he felt nothing for Meisai, because he as a swordsman wasn't involved in the fight at all. You both seem to have extended what I said to the whole series rather than just this episode. I explicitly only mentioned Meisai.

[Buffalobiian]

He correspondingly got fired up about it, and felt a bit of remorse afterward because he had fought a swordsman as a swordsman, rather than a tool wielded by Togame.

When did he ever feel remorse for killing the quickdraw guy? All I remember was Shichika saying his last words were cool.

I'm sure he's never felt anything about killing anybody all the way up till now, but as for Meisai... I'm kind of on the fence. After all, she's the first person (that we've seen) to get him to at least start thinking about his reason to kill. How that has impacted on him, I can't say for sure.

I don't believe he's the type to hide anything from Togame however.

In addition, I don't believe Shichika to be "heartless", but it's a fact that he doesn't seem to feel much. When he talked about his trap capturing his sister, he didn't sound too concerned or sorry at all, just stating the fact that he got in trouble afterwards. (Of course, it could have been nothing serious, like a pitfall, but I was thinking more of a bear trap).

As for killing his father, the first scenario that came to my head was normal sparring where he's used to going all out - only this time he bettered his dad with fatal results.

I like the Maniwani ninjas, and I look forward to seeing them each episode. The way things are going now though, their role looks more like cannon-fodder to show off new sword techniques on each month, and then to have Shichika kill them in return.

Sentou also seemed rather bland.

Since we were talking about how Shichika changes over the course of the series, he's becoming a better and better talker for sure. That pause right before he commented about the stairs/embrace makes it sound completely intentional (as opposed to his usual "say whatever comes to mind" style).


I really like the hair scenes in this show. While I did not like the slapstick parts of this episode, the other sections definitely made up for it.

I agree. The bits after they got "entwined" felt forced, though I still found a bit of humour in it.

[shinta|hikari]

While I'm disappointed that you both focused on that part of my post rather than the rest of it.

I agreed with the rest so I didn't see any need to dwell on it.

[Kraco]

I really like the hair scenes in this show. While I did not like the slapstick parts of this episode, the other sections definitely made up for it.


I agree. The bits after they got "entwined" felt forced, though I still found a bit of humour in it.

The scene might have worked better if we had first seen what the two mikos saw, and only then got an explanation. Not that it would have made it a better or more believable joke as such but at least the presentation itself would have been funnier.

[Ryllharu]

When did he ever feel remorse for killing the quickdraw guy? All I remember was Shichika saying his last words were cool.
Shichika hesitated once against the quickdraw guy when he was overcome by the pressure he exerted. After, Shichika asked the guy why he was doing this. When he replied that it was to protect something, Shichika didn't respond with his usual aloof expressions, he took it in and then finished the fight. When you compare this to the first fight and this one against Meisai, he certainly felt something, admiration perhaps. He continued to think about it after the fact as mentioned by the narrator. He killed someone who he admitted was certainly his better (he never saw the blade), and his words about what would happen now to the desert (since he removed its lord) felt to a bit remorseful to me.

It could go either way, but that's the way I took it.

[Kraco]

He could very well feel sad at some level because someone he found interesting disappeared but that's different from feeling remorse because he killed the person. It's perfectly natural for him that in a duel one dies. It's a part of the game.

He was exiled to the island for all his life so any pondering he does during or after the kill could as well be a simple effort to try to understand the motivations and thoughts of people having much more life experience than he does. Due to his past he doesn't possess a very wholesome and strong identity himself, as was noted by Togame in episode 2 and made more than obvious by this episode when he himself underlined the condition of being nothing but a sword. It's no wonder if he feels intrigued by swordsmen of more solid character. He might be in reality wondering his own future.

[shinta|hikari]

I personally still feel that Shichika does have certain attachments and emotions towards both the Namakura guy and Meisai. It may not be remorse as Kraco said, but at the very least I don't think he disliked them (or he may have even felt a certain rapport with them) as people, especially with the sheer lack of individuals he knows.

[Ryllharu]

Anyone else aside, I will still contend that Meisai was a very specific case to illustrate how little a part Shichika played in that fight. It was never a battle he as a swordman was involved in. He was only involved as a sword. It was Togame's fight and he her sword, not his fight.

He showed compassion for the shrine girls in helping out, he showed curiosity (and a bit of concern) as to why they were so afraid of him, but in stark contrast, all of Meisai's pleads and attempts to coerce him into a compromised position fall flat. Unnaturally flat.

[shinta|hikari]

Indeed he was not affected during the fight at all, but that does not mean that he won't feel or think of anything after the fight.

I do understand that there is very little to support this assertion, but the scene when Shichika stood above Meisai's corpse with her blood on his hands, silent and unmoving gave me the impression that he was thinking about what he had done. A mere sword would simply leave the corpse and search for Togame, not stand around like he is in deep thought like Shichika did.

Still, it may not mean anything at all. Maybe Shichika just stood there because it was too troublesome to do anything else. I don't want him to be that kind of character though, because as Meisai said, it is simply Shichika's way of avoiding the responsibility of choosing. Shichika himself denied this though.

[Kraco]

I do understand that there is very little to support this assertion, but the scene when Shichika stood above Meisai's corpse with her blood on his hands, silent and unmoving gave me the impression that he was thinking about what he had done.

Or, like I said in my previous post, he might have been thinking about himself. "Is this all I want to do in my life?" for example. From his point of view Meisai may have looked like she achieved more, or something different at least, not being a mere swordswoman anymore by having become the leader of the convent.

[Kraco]

Version 2 without variable frame rate (shows in the file size) and some minor script changes:

Episode 3v2 - Mazui (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_03v2_9EA451F4.mkv.torrent)

[Buffalobiian]

Isn't variable bitrate a good thing? Why would they do that...

[Kraco]

Because it causes random lag on my poor old computer. That's why I appreciate it.

[David75]

The Sentoryu could be somewhat similar to the style used in Soul Eater by Mifune.

Does anyone understand when/why Togame's left eye changes to a violet ball with black cross? Some kind of power related to the 12 swords? If not, would it be possible Schichika is the ultimate sword?

Very basic ideas, I know.


Regarding the ep, I liked its atmosphere and aesthetics a lot. A very nice show indeed.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm trying to find a relationship between either her emotions or her thoughts and the eye activating. As the miko said, her hair only becomes that after "something" happens, and I gather it's shock, which also resulted in her eye.

My initial thoughts are that it's probably got to do with how she "seald her heart", and maybe when that eye opens, it's revealing that she's temporarily opened it up or something.

[Ryllharu]

I'm trying to find a relationship between either her emotions or her thoughts and the eye activating. As the miko said, her hair only becomes that after "something" happens, and I gather it's shock, which also resulted in her eye.

My initial thoughts are that it's probably got to do with how she "seald her heart", and maybe when that eye opens, it's revealing that she's temporarily opened it up or something.In the first episode, her eye changed before her hair did. She blinked and it changed to the cross, it changed back when she realized her father was killed (it was normal when his head separating from his body was reflected in her eye). Then she screamed and her hair turned white. I do think it is a similar effect to what you said. It changes when she says something more significant, often relating to her quest and the power she hopes to achieve from it. We see it in the first episode when she says that, "I can already see it. It is within my grasp!"

In a way, she saw Shichika's father with the same eye she sees Shichika's power with. Perhaps she saw the power that was used to slay her father could be used to give her back the position she lost. I'd have to go back and try to see if there is a common vein with each of the scenes to be sure.

[Kraco]

It's an eye of ambition. Whenever she desires something or is talking about her plans or how good she is, or other such things.

[masamuneehs]

man, i dunno. i just couldn't get into episode 3. the ninja was lame (and got killed so pathetically), and the bad guy talked a little too much for my taste, mostly about run-of-the-mill anime "converted bad guy" backstory... it makes tons of sense not to fight her in the woods, but i felt a little robbed of action in this episode...

[shinta|hikari]

That is probably because the last part of the fight looked lazily executed and stupid. I mean, what the hell was with that aerial bleach-like sword flashing? Even the impact was not animated.

[Nadouku]

I was liking Meisai's style of fighting, but it ended too soon! I enjoyed her backstory, as well.

[David75]

[Mazui]​_Katanagatari​_-​_04​_[7F52B79D]​.mkv (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_04_7F52B79D.mkv.torrent)

Enjoy!

[Kraco]

I've never felt this trolled by an anime episode before. The ultimate sword fight I was looking forward to since last month wasn't shown at all. While I'm not necessarily sorry Shichika's sister got some screentime, it's hard to say if it was necessary in the bigger picture. I'd hope it was because I have faith in the author but I still can't deny the feeling I was disappointed we missed the actually important and interesting fight and instead got Nanami's no-effort fight against some random Maniwani dudes.

The only importance at all I could see for this fight would be Nanami becoming the ultimate opponent in the last episode. If she now decides to leave the island and happens to acquire one of the swords (would be no problem with her skills), Shichika would end up needing to fight her. Nanami shouldn't be resistant to the Shikizaki blade poison either, being a deviant Yasuri and thus able to use weapons.

The other option is, of course, that Nanami's fight had no relevance whatsoever and it was an evil artistic decision to deprive us of the ultimate Sabi Hakuhei fight.

Aside from being very disappointed due to missing Shichika's fight, I liked the beginning of the episode. It seems like the weird relationship between Shichika and Togame is steadily developing episode by episode.

[Ryllharu]

I expected something like this from the first episode. Shichika obviously feared Nanami when Togame showed up, and her level of insight far exceeded what we should have expected (and continue to witness) in Shichika. They both grew up largely isolated on that island, and yet Nanami is nothing at all like her brother. Her overwhelming abilities came as no surprise to me.

Several interesting things came out of it:
- Nanami is constantly suffering but her body will not allow her to die.
- Nanami knows Shichika's weakness in his moves, which surely will come up again.
- Someone attempted to end Nanami's suffering. Perhaps their mother? I can't help but wonder if Nanami defended herself even at that young age.
- Little Nanami was very cute.
- Kraco brought up a good point. Now that Nanami knows how to use a sword, will she become poisoned by the deviant blades? She doesn't really need them anyway, and she already brought her own deviant style to Kyotouryuu.
- I enjoyed that the butterfly guy used nearly every cliche that indicates someone is absolutely about to be killed when they go off like a hero.


Personally, I loved that they didn't show Shichika's fight at all. I fully expect them to show something later, but even if they don't, it is a nice touch. Belittling the most powerful swordsman's defeat to a summary over dango is the ultimate defeat. Someone of his legend and status becomes nothing more than a footnote. He is eclipsed by someone barely his superior (by their own admission), but that fight in turn was eclipsed by someone far greater. Nanami also lamented that she has never had to put any effort in to anything she does. Thus, her fights required almost no effort to win, and overshadow a battle that required the most effort Shichika and Togame ever had to put in, and still only won by something more ephemeral than luck.

In a way, we've experienced the same disappointment that Nanami has felt all her life.

[Lucifus]

Ditto; and to clarify my thoughts, great facking episode!

[Buffalobiian]

- I enjoyed that the butterfly guy used nearly every cliche that indicates someone is absolutely about to be killed when they go off like a hero.

Heh, yeah, I loved that.

Nanami's smile was creepy. I'm not sure if it's all meant to be a taunt, but even if she's not putting any effort into this, she's certainly enjoying it.

Biting nails bit... damn :eek:

Her comment about playing along with the sword hunt, her brother's weakness, and the futility of stances all suggest that she'll confront him sooner or later, as Kraco pointed out. For the sake of trivia, Bruce Lee also commented that stances of traditional martial arts and their set forms were too limiting.



That last bit of the episode was the biggest cock tease :(.

[animus]

I got trolled, HARD.

I was expecting her to be pretty strong in all honesty, but not this overpowered. If Shichika and her do fight (which might not even happen), how does he beat her? She already memorized everything about Kyoutoryuu.

[Nadouku]

If Togame ever gave you a hard time, just tickle her collarbone and make her submissive. :p

[Kraco]

I was expecting her to be pretty strong in all honesty, but not this overpowered. If Shichika and her do fight (which might not even happen), how does he beat her?

Either by luck, experience, and the sheer strength provided by his much bigger body or by stretching the fight beyond what Nanami's sick body can withstand. Or even more likely the combination of those.

Or maybe at the last possible moment Nanami won't want to kill her dear brother after all.


If Togame ever gave you a hard time, just tickle her collarbone and make her submissive.

The best part of that scene was how Shichika wouldn't stop.

[shinta|hikari]

Shichika's best strategy if he wants to defeat his sister is to prolong the fight. In the flashback, while Shichika was quite beaten up, they did reach the designated time limit, making the match a "draw". The problem is, if Nanami starts roaming around and fighting other Maniwani's, she will soon become too powerful for anyone to handle, which is precisely the reason her father did not train her or allow her exposure to fighting.

[Ryllharu]

The problem is, if Nanami starts roaming around and fighting other Maniwani's, she will soon become too powerful for anyone to handle, which is precisely the reason her father did not train her or allow her exposure to fighting.My interpretation on those lines was very different.

Wasn't the reason he refused to allow her to be the successor because he said that it would be a waste on someone as talented as she was? He would be restricting her to a single style, when he knew quite well that she could learn anything else instantly.

He didn't train her because he would be holding her back, not because she would become too powerful.

[shinta|hikari]

I wasn't paying enough attention to be sure, so you may be right.

I wonder when they will actually show the animated fight that we were deprived of this episode. With the preview from episode 3 showing actual animated scenes of the fight, I think they will show it as a flashback in one of the future episodes.

[Buffalobiian]

My interpretation on those lines was very different.

Wasn't the reason he refused to allow her to be the successor because he said that it would be a waste on someone as talented as she was? He would be restricting her to a single style, when he knew quite well that she could learn anything else instantly.

He didn't train her because he would be holding her back, not because she would become too powerful.

That's indeed what he said, but I wonder how much truth there is to it.

Nanami said the Mantis fellow had the same eyes her father did when he looked at her. It could well be awe and other related responses, but it could also be fear.

[shinta|hikari]

The eye comment was the same reason I thought that the father was preventing Nanami from becoming a monster. The erratic eye movements looked frightened more than anything else. Still, Nanami may have just misunderstood her father's expression.

I sense a lot of self hatred emanating from Nanami. She seems to hate both her weaknesses and strengths, and this leads her to live a terrible existence. I usually dislike characters with godlike talent, but Nanami more than pays for it with her body condition.

I really like the idea of her turning villain somewhere down the line. Hard work and strategy versus sheer talent is a classic scenario in shounen shows, so Katanagatari may yet parody it, and hopefully add a new twist.

[Ryllharu]

The eye comment was the same reason I thought that the father was preventing Nanami from becoming a monster. The erratic eye movements looked frightened more than anything else. Still, Nanami may have just misunderstood her father's expression.When they flashed back to him actually saying those lines to her, they quivered a bit, but it didn't sound like he was afraid of her. It looked more like he was frustrated. The ultimate style he had created wasn't worthy enough for his own daughter. She would surpass it immediately. The same frustration that comes from seeing what you worked decades upon being learned in an instant as if it were learning to pluck flower petals. Perhaps his eyes reflected the sensation of being in the presence of someone so overwhelmingly dominant. It had to injure his pride as the founder of their art.

If my speculation was right, it may also be he feared her for defending herself from whoever it was that attempted to end her pain.

Again, this is why I said my interpretation was different. It easily works both ways.

[fireheart]

So I heard that this trolling is actually in the light novels, anyone know if this is true?

[masamuneehs]

so i actually loved this episode, which was surprising considering i'd read a bit of spoilers before watching.

watching that little girl go hardcore nasty bitch on the poor praying Mantis Guy.... holy cow, i haven't been that struck by epic murderous moe in years...

it seems like the theme of this episode was: "Those guys who are acting like heroes are gonna die". it was a bit more subtle for the commander "I'll go on ahead. I'm the strongest and the leader, after all." "You guys have no regrets, right?" but I like how they started really pouring on the THis Guy is Gonna Die cliches with the butterfly ninja. If there's one thing I've learned from anime, it's that you never quit smoking (or drinking) or arrange to get married unless you've got top billing...

i probably would have been furious if i'd watched this episode without knowing i'd not see the fight against "the strongest swordsman", but knowing what i did, i thought it was actually quite clever (if not a ridiculous troll) to just show us the fight concerning "the strongest" and not the fight for the sword...

edit to above: the comments about the Father seem to be pointing in Ryl's direction. he expressly says that the reason he is not training Nanami (sp) is not because she is a woman or because she is ill. he says he is going to spend his entire life and all of his energy, until his body decays, so that Shichika can learn their fighting style.

the problem is this. he says "I really wanted yo (Nanami) to become the head of the Kyotoryuu style, but that is not possible." There's a difference right after with Muri and Fukanou (literally no reason/logic (as in the mind) and fukanou (no physical capability). He uses fukanou to talk about her becoming head of the Kyotouryuu style. Because he is unable, and that is why i think Ryl has the closest interpretation, that he's frustrated and intimidated by her mere presence (and, thusly, more than a little bit afraid of her). I think it's understandable that the Maniwa Mantis was looking at her in that same light, that he thinks it's impossible (and frightening and shameful, because i think he somewhat understood that she'd used his own ninpou against him after seeing it only twice) that he could encounter such a monster or a person

of course, the true mystery is why Nanami's ridiculous skill and power excludes her from becoming the heir to the family (it's not just a matter of her father being unable to dedicate himself to her, it's that he thinks she would not be a suitable family head)...

[fireheart]

Didn't Shichika say that they're swordmen that can't use swords and since Nanami the ability to learn how to use swords as such it contradicts the tradition.

Anyway wonder if Nanami have anything to do with what Shichika talked about in the end about their style being left behind by Shikizaki.

[einbreaker]

When is the new one coming out? I'm getting impatient, and antsy.

[Kraco]

It only came out today, according to AniDB and ANN, so you have to give Mazui a bit of time to sub it.

[kenren]

[Mazui]_Katanagatari_-_05_[6778BC74].mkv (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_05_6778BC74.mkv.torrent)

GET !

[Buffalobiian]

Pretty sweet episode.

-Onsen scene was really distracting. Togame might have a small stature, but damn~

-A Maniwani ninja who lasted more than 1 episode? Well, you don't see that every day. He took out those pirates just as effectively as the other Bird-like one did to his boat-driver, but Decapitation Circle just seems cooler. Maybe it was the suddenness.

-Shichika's obviously been developing mentally as he's absorbing the world around him, and I liked how they played into that this episode with him getting ahead of himself a bit.

-The fight itself was paced nicely, and Shichika even had some good lines to boot. Ultimately, the pirate didn't prove to be too difficult though, so I'll be looking forward to next month, where Shichika's no-damage streak comes to an end. (or so the preview suggests).

[Kraco]

Yeah, this was a jolly episode once again. Especially after the troll last month. It seems to me Togame would gratefully accept more from Shichika but isn't overly much pushing forward either. Maybe she's mindful of Shichika's more than obviously immature personality. In light of that it was good to see Shichika's shows of jealousy.

The fight was all in all pretty easy but maybe it was needed right here, with Shichika already forgetting some basics like Bill said.

Togame didn't take very well the cheerio revelation...

[shinta|hikari]

What I found hilarious was the fact that the simpleton Shichika actually knew about the Cheerio mistake. I also enjoyed how Shichika expresses his feelings with violence immediately while wearing such a deadpan expression. It makes sense considering his lack of emotional growth and martial training since a very early age.

[Archangel]

Frostii is a group of assholes, but at least i got to enjoy 3 episodes of katanagatari in a row. My blood is boiling in fanboysh excitement


I also enjoyed how Shichika expresses his feelings with violence immediately while wearing such a deadpan expression. It makes sense considering his lack of emotional growth and martial training since a very early age.
I also enjoyed that part but was annoyed by Togame's lack of realization that they were outbursts of jealousy, i felt we were stolen of some character development right there. Not much, but some.

Yeah, this was a jolly episode once again. Especially after the troll last month..
Lol, not sure if anyone else noticed but they even went as far as to change episode 3's preview to make it look as the fight was going to happen.

I'm not too upset about it, we got some amazing yandere action instead and it's not like it was a complete waste seeing as the title of strongest is providing Shichika with some invaluable experience along with his newfound fame

Also i feel pretty stupid for only noticing it now but Shichika's lack of any sort of wounds while fighting master swordsmen and ninjas makes him look all the more impressive and his sister all the more Deus Ex Machina. Every episode she's looking more and more like a final boss as we learn about her.

[Kraco]

I also enjoyed that part but was annoyed by Togame's lack of realization that they were outbursts of jealousy, i felt we were stolen of some character development right there. Not much, but some.

Considering she realized it a minute later, I don't think we were robbed of too much development. She's reading Shichika quite well in my opinion. She was purely lucky with her initial love plan but afterwards she has been learning more about his mentality, though being somewhat selfish, it's not like it would all the time show. Still, it does when it needs to, like how easily she got Shichika out of his slump and beat the pirate.

The one thing I've hard time explaining about this episode is Togame's fetish. I thought at first it was massage but to trample on her head? It must be some sort of masochism, but how does it connect with her forceful, selfish, motivated, and ambitious personality? Yet forgetting that paradox I find it quite interesting how Togame actively seeks such symbolism: Her dad was slain by Shichika's old man, and now she has Shichika stamp on her. It's obvious she couldn't care less about the past but still...

[shinta|hikari]

The head stomping is also a form of massage. It stretches the neck muscles when done properly.

[Archangel]

The head stomping is also a form of massage. It stretches the neck muscles when done properly.
That's how i saw it too, you might be reading a bit too much into it Kraco...

[Kraco]

Yeah, I guess so. I know little of massage so I didn't recognize it as such.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought it was a massage (rather than a stomp), but I had no idea it was legit. I used to get my brother to walk on my back (back when he didn't weigh 80KG), but head-stomp's a first.

[masamuneehs]

episode 05 was great. it got back to alot of basics, and it really relied on the characters.

i do feel like they're selling some of these "sword holders" a little bit short. random bad guys whose biggest traits are some run of the mill sob backstory and likability never do it for me. this felt like the female temple woman all over again, except at the end (according to the narration) the pirate is going to fuck them over (but, man, Hokkaido is at least three times as far away from Kyushu as the capital... they'd figure that out sometime, i hope...)

really good character interaction in this episode, particularly people finally getting jealous. I also liked the introduction of the Princess character, and a Maniwa who isn't a throw-away character. when he said that half the Maniwa Corps were dead, and had just cut off one of his two arms, i thought that was pretty badass. i'd be plenty pleased if Maniwa turned out to be the real big bad in this series, because we've been dealing with them since episode 1, and, aside from the Princess, I can't imagine anyone who can make moves and physically match up to what Togame has right now.

[Kraco]

I failed so miserably to anticipate the next episode so soon that it's safe to say with my perception skills I'd be a dead swordsman.

Episode 6 - Mazui (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_06_2BDCCFE6.mkv.torrent)

[shinta|hikari]

Togame is getting a haircut. Nooooooooooo!!!!

[animus]

Can't say that I'm happy learning that Shichika will have to kill his sister (and will succeed, clearly). Then again, I'm sure it's just some silly premise to make them fight, but whatever.

[Kraco]

Togame is getting a haircut. Nooooooooooo!!!!

Nooooooooooo!!!!


Anyway, this was a rather interesting episode although the fights were somewhat dull in my opinion. But then again, I've rarely been a fan of overly powerful little kids so maybe that's my bias. Somewhat funny a little kid was the first one to wound Shichika. On the other hand the lesson should be all the more powerful.

Keeping in mind the earlier trolling episode I wouldn't yet fully believe Shichika is going to kill his sister. But who knows, it could happen, and would also mean the prediction the last opponent being her would be wrong. Personally I wouldn't consider that a bad thing because a major villain that would slowly start to get carefully planned exposition yet remain largely unknown until the last ep would be more interesting. I can't consider Nanami an overly intriguing character.

The best parts of this episode were those clearly developing Shichika and Togame's relationship. Each and every time I also view those scenes where they are close to each other very cute and nice. Maybe it's because in 99% of anime a guy and girl even accidentally touching each other means they will instantly blush, scream, and jump farther away from the other. So, to see them stick to each other like this is so refreshing. The verbal confirmation that Shichika likes to play with Togame's hair and Togama on her own part exploiting the fact actively was also funny.

[Archangel]

She has her hair back by the end of the preview and the artstyle was all funky so... like kraco said, after that massive trolling i won't believe anything they tell us till i see it with my own eyes

Besides she took out a fucking village in half an hour, what sort of last minute final boss could they find to top that??

About this episode, i'm glad they didn't kill the little girl. I was thinking that the reason the ninja got there with her power was so they had an excuse to kill the little one off, glad i was mistaken.

I felt a little cheated with this month's sword though, not only was its special attribute boringly obvious but the meaning behind the name as well. I mean sure you can hold it both ways, but why the hell would you want to?

[Kraco]

Despite the name and the alternative wielding style it was pretty clear this sword's special attribute was the weight. A tungsten sword.

[Buffalobiian]

I felt a little cheated with this month's sword though, not only was its special attribute boringly obvious but the meaning behind the name as well. I mean sure you can hold it both ways, but why the hell would you want to?

The spiky end may be heavier for all we know (though I myself find this unlikely too). If that's the case though, then one can alternate between speed and extreme force. A rather useless thing to have though, considering the attributes of the sword.

What the hell was the guy thinking anyway, making something only superhumans can carry.

I'm greatly enjoying Shichika's development. He's fooled around with Togame even more so than last time, the crafty fellow. He also chooses the best timing for his catch phrase.

I like how they showing both siblings' progress as they learn more about what's off their island, with Nanami lonely walking down a much more malevolent path while Shichika walks another with some support from our "Cherrio!" friend.

I on the other hand choose to believe their preview - not necessarily the visual cues, but the words that "Shichika will kill his sister next month". The troll episode announced the Needle-sword fight in a similar fashion and it happened - they just didn't show it.

[masamuneehs]

all i know is i can't get enough Maniwa Houhou. That man make fire freeze. Togame practically begged him to not fight Shichika (that's what it seemed like to me), and seeing as how she knows so much about the other Maniwa ninja, she's got to know plenty about Houhou...

the narration at the end of the episode. wow. i have a feeling grandma isn't trolling us, because they really haven't built Shichika's sister up as that big of a character yet, and, after these last two "let 'em live" battles (and Togame's super soft words about how she might have been holding Shichika back, alluding to his "true power" being something he can do only when he doesn't kill someone...

This show needs to have people dying in it. I am not watching it for the love story or fan service, and they don't put enough humor inside 50 minutes for that to be the sole motivation i could have to watch this show.

i thought this episode was pretty dull. Body Possession of little children, the amateur kid is sick nasty. the interaction with Togame and Shichika was allright but, again, that's not what i'm watching this show for...

basically, if this show gets too heavy on the trolling, too light on the action, and too "killing people in battle is wrong" moral, i'm fucking going to lose it.

[fireheart]

I found the whole revenge thing quite funny when she started talking about all their fallen comrades considering the only one Shichika killed was Koumori the other 5 were killed by someone else after all.

[Ryllharu]

I thought the one really weird thing was when Kyouken possessed Konayuki. A memory that even horrified her (2000 years old and all) with the level of brutality. They struck on it earlier wondering how an avalanche could occur at the apex of the mountain where the village resided. Upon further review, 36:32 shows a silhouette. Rather unmistakable. Nanami.

Perhaps she killed off the village in an attempt to get the sword, only to discover she lacked the physical strength to carry it. She learned how to wield a sword from the Maniwani, something Shichika has an immunity to due to not having the same learning capacity Nanami does. She is most likely succumbing to the allure of the deviant blades.

Nanami has definitely turned malevolent.

[Archangel]

Makes sense, Shichika was as pure as snow when he was in the island but slowly began changing through this whole experience

Nanami probably went through the same only she had nobody to guide her through it. Or worse, she did and they led her wrongly

[Buffalobiian]

Makes sense, Shichika was as pure as snow when he was in the island but slowly began changing through this whole experience

Nanami probably went through the same only she had nobody to guide her through it. Or worse, she did and they led her wrongly

She was already developing a less-than-pure mind from the start. She felt neglected from her Father, who put all his time into teaching Shichika. From Nanami's account, it seems she felt her father feared her.

She's also had someone (her mother?) tried to strangle her from memory, which really doesn't help a young child feel loved.

Whatever poison's tormenting her is supposedly strong enough that Bee's Caltrops are nothing by comparison.

All up, she's been a pretty unfortunate character who's probably drowned herself in the one thing she does best (and can find enjoyment in) - sword hunting and all the people she can kill while doing it.

The next sword's the "Evil Sword", so all the more reason for her to walk down that path so quickly.

What confused me about Konayuki's memories was why she hid that fact. Did she think it would frighten Togame & Co. off? Did she want to hide the fact that her tribe was eradicated by a single girl to mantain their pride as the strongest tribe ever?

She didn't seem to care about things like pride (it's her first time knowing humans are so weak after all - and it's Shichika we're talking about), and she only confessed her lie about the "prove your worth" scenario.

[shinta|hikari]

I hope Shichika never goes back to settle things with Konayuki. I'd hate to see her get killed.

[Archangel]

I hope Shichika never goes back to settle things with Konayuki. I'd hate to see her get killed.
Settling the fight doesn't necessarily mean he'd have to kill her

[shinta|hikari]

He would probably have to, since he lost and got his arm broken when he didn't try the first time.

[Archangel]

It's not that he didn't go for the kill it's that he did go for anything at all, he couldn't even hurt her in any permanent way and then she got a lucky shot in

[shinta|hikari]

He didn't go for the kill. He was ordered not to. He had to keep her alive to carry the sword. If that were not the case, Shichika would have killed her. Shichika himself said that he underestimated her. At the end of the episode, even Togame said that such a loss would not happen again.

[Archangel]

That's my point exactly he underestimated her AND wasn't allowed to harm her in any way that made her unable to carry the sword

Should they fight once again i'm confident he could beat her even without having to kill her

[shinta|hikari]

But he lost when he did those things. If he didn't have such disadvantages, he should be able to win, but not easily. Shichika was never able to beat really strong opponents without killing them since he had to go all out, and Konayuki is plenty strong. He even said that he would have certainly died if they continued to fight with his right arm injured. She certainly is not an opponent he can beat without going all out.

EDIT: Of course, I am not saying that it is certain Shichika will kill her, but that is the likely outcome. If he holds back, it is likely he will be the one to get hurt or even killed, and I doubt he is willing to take such a risk again after being given his first loss.

[Archangel]

I disagree with you on pretty much every aspect but i just realized this whole discussion is pointless, they can't have a rematch now that Konayuki doesn't have the sword anymore

[Kraco]

Rather unmistakable. Nanami.

I was considering that and even went back to the scene and paused the video. There remains one problem, though: Nanami with her extremely poor health would never survive the trip to the mountain. It almost killed even Shichika. So, I thought it was somebody else.

But maybe it was Nanami, and she had just rented a palanquin with a brazier...

[Archangel]

I was considering that and even went back to the scene and paused the video. There remains one problem, though: Nanami with her extremely poor health would never survive the trip to the mountain. It almost killed even Shichika. So, I thought it was somebody else.

But maybe it was Nanami, and she had just rented a palanquin with a brazier...
The fact still remains that she has what's apparently an immortal body so... maybe she just passed out a couple of times on her way up?

[David75]

For those who watched Kemono no Souja Erin, Mt Odori is the same moutain we had in that show. Or at least it's very similar.

Regarding the avalanche killing everyone from the Itezora clan, of course it was impossible at the top of a mountain... but more than that these clan members are so strong and resistant there's no way they'd die from a mere avalanche. Konayuki even said that the snowstorm Schichika has trouble resisting is nothing to the Itezora clan and is even part of themselves.

And that was before the flashback, wasn't it?

[Buffalobiian]

And that was before the flashback, wasn't it?

Yes. Why do you ask?

[David75]

Yes. Why do you ask?

I just meant that it was quickly obvious Nanami was the culprit, even before the flashback, but I can't remember anymore why I strongly wanted to make that point. We say Goldfish memory in France (maybe elsewhere too?)

[Buffalobiian]

I didn't realise who the bigshot was until I saw the flashback :P

People call it Goldfish memory here too.

[Buffalobiian]

Mazui - Episode 07 (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_07_200C3AB0.mkv.torrent)

[Archangel]

... Togame's hair is gone

/drops anime

[shinta|hikari]

... Nanami is gone

/drops anime



for one month.

[Buffalobiian]

... Nanami is gone

/drops anime



for one month.

Yeah, the loss of Nanami impacted way more than the loss of Togame's hair. (Which isn't too much).

She turned out so much less evil than the last preview suggested, it was slightly sad. :o

The entire "weakness" thing didn't add up though.

Firstly, was she saying that the Evil Blade was using her vital energy to rejuvinate her body, and so she was using her "skill reading" less effectively? She evaded everything previously, and only go caught when the lights went out. Unless her bare eyes give her night vision, I don't see how that one would have worked out.

(There was a scene that suggests the blade does have its side effects though, unless Nanami was simply being impatient)

Second "weakness" issue was when she said she's learning other people's techniques to make herself weaker. If other people's techniques are all she ever used, then that "might" be the case, since it may not be the most efficient move to counter with.

But learning other people's moves also opens up probabilities, like extending her range (mantis nails) or attacking someone's weakness in the air (anti-gravity move). Weaknesses or not, it just depends on when and how you use the moves.

Straight, genius-reliant counters rely entirely on your existing physical capabilities. As Shichika said, there was no way she could have thrown him into the air.

[Ryllharu]

The video game parts put a smirk on my face. First a text-based adventure game when Shichika and Togame landed on the island, using preset poses for various reactions (made even better thanks to the subtitles) and followed by Nanami's assault on the temple that looked like Pocky and Rocky (http://super.nesguide.com/games/pockyrocky2/). (KiKi KaiKai)

As much as I liked Togame's hair, I think the short cut really suits her. Like Shichika said, Nanami knows how to cut hair. It's different, but it still looks really good on Togame.

I thought Nanami's outfit also suited her a lot more than her usual yukata.
The entire "weakness" thing didn't add up though.

Firstly, was she saying that the Evil Blade was using her vital energy to rejuvinate her body, and so she was using her "skill reading" less effectively? She evaded everything previously, and only go caught when the lights went out. Unless her bare eyes give her night vision, I don't see how that one would have worked out.

Second "weakness" issue was when she said she's learning other people's techniques to make herself weaker. If other people's techniques are all she ever used, then that "might" be the case, since it may not be the most efficient move to counter with.The blade wasn't using her energy, it was forcing her body to rejuvenate. Remember that Nanami's body can take a great deal of punishment and comes back while she suffers in constant pain. The blade thrust into her chest forced her to be in a constant state of regeneration, which effectively put her body on permanent healing mode. It weakened her overall (tying into your second question), but it gave her more stamina.

The other part is just that Kyotouryu practitioners are never meant to use a sword or learn other techniques. Togame's tric...scheme was like the pirate eyepatch technique. She had the candles fizzle the moment Shichika used his refined ultimate skill. Nanami could not be allowed to see which order he was using the moves in. If she couldn't see them, she couldn't counter them. Shichika's one eye was closed most of the time preceding that, and was used to the coming darkness.

Kyotouryu is strong enough on its own, and like you said, other skills make her weaker because she becomes less focused on using Kyotoryu and more focused on thinking about other skills.

[depthcharge]

What a convenient way to kill off a freaking powerful character. Makes you wonder whether Nanami could have reacted if she wasnt bend on trying to get killed.

[Buffalobiian]

The blade wasn't using her energy, it was forcing her body to rejuvenate. Remember that Nanami's body can take a great deal of punishment and comes back while she suffers in constant pain. The blade thrust into her chest forced her to be in a constant state of regeneration, which effectively put her body on permanent healing mode. It weakened her overall (tying into your second question), but it gave her more stamina

It still isn't quite right. Nanami hasn't been shown to be able to take a great deal of damage. The only time I remember her taking any was against the Bee Ninja's projectiles - which had no effect overall because Nanami's body is constantly putting up with way more punishment anyway. (That punishment was the pain from whatever illness/poison was in her body - and her body for some reason just won't die from it).

Back on track a bit, her stamina runs out because she has "a weak body" (exhaustion?). The forced rejuvination means she's constantly healing.. but that simply means she's healing faster than normal (the body constantly rejuvinates anyway). I don't see why there'd be a trade-off.

I agree about the outfit. It looked really good.

[Kraco]

Short-haired adventures:

Episode 8 - Mazui (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_08_BC9141A7.mkv.torrent)

[Ryllharu]

Holy shit. The new OP is terrible. I've been fairly ambivalent toward ALI Project so far, but this was easily the worst OP they've ever done. It doesn't fit the atmosphere of the series or the animation at all. It comes off like they just matched a random song to the new animation. Not to mention that the song itself is just...bland. It doesn't even have the nice discordant they are sometimes able to pull off. It is just random. I'll be skipping the OP from here on out, that's for sure.

That aside, I think that Togame's new haircut really suits her. It was nice to look through the space between her hair and shoulders to the backgrounds. It matches her personality in some ways, short and perky.

The interaction between Togame and Hitei-hime is rather interesting too. There is really only one person in the series who would be able to talk to Hitei that way, and it is Togame. She is a princess in her own right after all, even if she is deposed. Moreover, it also seems that Hitei's origins are as clouded as Togame's appear to be. One no longer has the position and power she deserves, and the other probably doesn't deserve what she has. So it is interesting that Hitei-hime tolerates that kind of insolence from one of her underlings. Togame is certainly the only one who can do it without getting her head removed from her shoulders by Emonzaemon. They both seem to enjoy it after all. We know why Togame starts the verbal battle, but I wonder if Hitei participates because she has something to prove against Togame.

One thing that stood out is why Hitei has the gun Deviant "blades," and why she is hiding that knowledge. She is by no means announcing that there are only 11 blades out there (including the ones already obtained by Togame). It makes me curious if Hitei-hime is their particular wielder. Last boss perhaps?

[Kraco]

I have hated ALI Project for a long time. I know it's their trademark to make every single song sound the same despite the words being different, but that's working against them in my case. I can't stand to listen to them anymore when I feel like I've heard the same thing for a thousand times (and didn't particularly like it to begin with, back in Rozen Maiden, although it sounded kind of fresh back then). So, I'll be skipping this OP without a question. In fact I skipped it as soon as I heard which band is playing...

If what you said is true and Togame is the only one speaking like that to Hitei, then why it's allowed is answered by itself. In a sense Togame is a nobody, at least until she's gathered all the deviant blades, and so Hitei loses no grace by allowing it. However, considering Hitei's own wits and the sharpness of her tongue, surely she would feel like her talents go to waste if she had no sparring partners.

I also approve of Shichika admitting he has a soul. It certainly allows better character development (including development of the relationship between those two) and it also means Shichika can't escape responsibility for his own deeds by saying he's just a sword doing his master's bidding. Now it's more like those two either rise together or fall together.

Togame's new hair style does suit her style and personality but I'd be lying if I said I'm not missing the scenes of Shichika playing with the long hair... But perhaps it compensates he's now playing with the rest of her body...

[depthcharge]

Mazui Episode 8v2 (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=151515)

[shinta|hikari]

I used to like ALI project, but since they show no change after so long, even I have grown tired of their music. I found it ironic how they sing the OP for an episode that shows so much change in the main characters.

Shichika has really gone a long way, and it was emphasized (perhaps a little too much) this episode. The way he jokes around and how touches Togame have become much more normal. The way he reacts to people talking to him have become less robotic as well. While I know this shows his growth, I have to say I like him better when he was a lot more eccentric.

I liked Togame's hair much better when it was long, but that has always been a bias of mine. I don't see anything wrong with the current short style.

I actually hope that there is no last boss in this show. Katanagatari parodies a lot of the cliches in a shounen fighting show while actually being one, so I hope they do something unexpected with the climax.

[Archangel]

I'm such a rebel seeing as i enjoyed the new OP. I do agree with what Kraco said, it's almost exactly like the Code Geass ED (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tAi-hDoHqQ) with a couple variations

Anyway fuck short hair, had to get that out of the way.

The rivalry between the 2 princesses is very entertaining, it's also hilarious how both of them seem oblivious to how much they resemble each other.

I thought the way they paraded Shichika's evolution as a person in this episode sort of ruined it, they should have gradually increased it per episode so his realization didn't feel so forced. What i do like is how they seem to be doing just that with his design, just as Togame commented upon a while back it seems he's getting more buff with each passing month.

Togame has certainly grown more useful in battle hasn't she? Maybe it's from her newfound battle experience, but i still found it a little hard to believe when she yelled out for Shichika to dodge. Since when does she have those kinds of reflexes?

I totally disagree with Shinta's point, having no final boss is like enjoying a gourmet meal only to find out they're out of deserts. Yeah sure you had a fantastic time but that low note in the end is what you're gonna bitch about on the way home ( i could have done a sexual metaphor instead, be glad i didn't )

[Ryllharu]

Togame has certainly grown more useful in battle hasn't she? Maybe it's from her newfound battle experience, but i still found it a little hard to believe when she yelled out for Shichika to dodge. Since when does she have those kinds of reflexes?

I totally disagree with Shinta's point, having no final boss is like enjoying a gourmet meal only to find out they're out of deserts. Yeah sure you had a fantastic time but that low note in the end is what you're gonna bitch about on the way home ( i could have done a sexual metaphor instead, be glad i didn't )Togame's skill was a special case here. The two of them had been following the doll around for days, and Togame was learning how it worked, and the limited set of movements it could achieve. She worked out what responses it would produce when by the way it appeared and functioned. This is much of the reason it had four arms and four legs I imagine. An extra set of limbs to overcome its shortcomings in terms of movement and flexibility.

Togame had studied it so extensively that she drew a set of schematics. If not for her inherent klutziness, she might even have been able to defeat it herself.

In some ways I almost feel as if we've already passed the mid-boss and the last boss. One we never got to even see thanks to the "last boss" stealing the episode. Nanami served a purpose of being a monster that Shichika could never have been able to defeat without Togame's aid in addition to Nanami herself wanting to be killed. If she truly embraced Kyotouryu, with her eyes seeing every weakness in the skills of others, she would have been unstoppable.

However, if you don't look at it that way, we likely already know who the two last bosses are. Shichika and Togame both have their own. Shichika will eventually need to defeat Maniwa Houou (one-armed bird ninja) when he betrays Togame once again, and Togame will have to defeat Hitei-hime. The question remains whether or not it will be a final battle of swords or of words. Houou is enough of a monster himself that a victory through combat may not be possible for Shichika. For Togame, while we might think that she would defeat Hitei-hime through words and schemes, with Hitei having the Pistol Deviant Blade, it may come down to a physical battle.

[shinta|hikari]

@Arch - I'm not saying the climax should be bland. I'm just saying that they should be creative with it, and not just tack on some super powerful boss that must be defeated.

I agree with you about the drastic changes in Shichika's character. They should have divided it into two episodes at least, or lessened it a little bit in this one. He was almost like a different character.

I agree with Ryll about Togame's warning. It wasn't Togame's reflexes but her knowledge of the doll that allowed her to warn Shichika.

[Archangel]

The best Togame could do was make a list of all of the dolls possible moves and then extrapolate cause and effect from Shichika's own attacks, i still find it hard to believe she would be quick enough to respond to a high speed battle involving the bladeless style

[Buffalobiian]

The best Togame could do was make a list of all of the dolls possible moves and then extrapolate cause and effect from Shichika's own attacks, i still find it hard to believe she would be quick enough to respond to a high speed battle involving the bladeless style

That moment would have been a slower point in the battle though. Shichika feinted, and tried to follow up with a move that would have used the newly created opening. The doll didn't create this opening, and instead read Shichika's slower, possibly more powerful move, and attacked his opening instead.


I have hated ALI Project for a long time. I know it's their trademark to make every single song sound the same despite the words being different, but that's working against them in my case. I can't stand to listen to them anymore when I feel like I've heard the same thing for a thousand times (and didn't particularly like it to begin with, back in Rozen Maiden, although it sounded kind of fresh back then).

I liked only 1 or 2 of their songs, but the rest were just very... argh. This one was even worse in that it had no ups and downs, like Ryll said. I was smiling during the OP at how bad it was.

Togame's new hair is nice. It really highlights how small she is (as well as making her look young, like Hitei said), which makes her matchup with Shichika all the more entertaining. (Particularly all those piggyback and lap scenes).

She also looked a lot cuter and more evil during various moments this episode.

The doll "crying" hit the right chord for me. I felt a tad sad for it.


However, if you don't look at it that way, we likely already know who the two last bosses are. Shichika and Togame both have their own. Shichika will eventually need to defeat Maniwa Houou (one-armed bird ninja) when he betrays Togame once again, and Togame will have to defeat Hitei-hime.

Note of interest: Houou has two arms again. Phoenix rebirth?

[Archangel]

Note of interest: Houou has two arms again. Phoenix rebirth?
Bad animation?

Just sayin... it's happened before.

[Buffalobiian]

Bad animation?

Just sayin... it's happened before.

What has?

1) Bad animation in anime in general, or
2) Bad animation in Katanagatari in general, or
3) Bad animation in this episode of Katanagatari, or
4) Bad animation in reference to Houou's limb?

[Archangel]

Number 1

Just recently in One Piece they did the exact same thing, animated a character that should only have 1 arm with 2

[Xelbair]

I think he can somehow restore limbs - it would seems stupid to remove arm to forge small truce - it would be way more effective to attack them with every head of Maniwani corps at once.

[Archangel]

I think he can somehow restore limbs - it would seems stupid to remove arm to forge small truce - it would be way more effective to attack them with every head of Maniwani corps at once.
It also seems stupid to kill one of your own when you're already down to 5 members but that didn't stop him did it?

[Ryllharu]

Not to mention that even with one arm, he is still more than capable of killing a half-dozen people in an instant. Either he was lying when he told Togame he couldn't win against them before, or his power requires specific circumstances that were not fulfilled at that time.

[Xelbair]

I think he lied back then - he could kill them in instant, - Shichika might survive his initial strike but Togame is sure to be killed. I think they rather want to: lure Hitei out(and Emonzaemon) or just use them as additional hands to gather swords(less work for them). He killed another head of the Maniwani - that was weird - but head of Penguin squad can compensate for his death.

[fireheart]

On the Togame calling out to Shichika during the fight I didn't really see anything wrong with it. As other said Togame got a pretty good grasp of what the doll is capable of and even if Shichika studied it all, it doesn't mean that he can make his body remember all that in just one night. So just saw it as something she could see more easily because she was a bystander and could see all of it instead of just what's infront of Shichika. Basically just easier for her to see it's other 2 hands raised for an attack, while Shichika might have moved in on instinct and might have forgotten about the fact that there were 4 arms.

[Kraco]

Previewless release:

Episode 9 - Mazui (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_09_A2A1E109.mkv.torrent)

"Don't watch the preview (not in this ep) unless you want MASSIVE spoilers.​" -Tokyotosho comment

[Buffalobiian]

TSUNDERE OVERLOAD!!

Togame had some awesome facial animations this episode - that hair works wonders.

[Kraco]

Togame's jealousy was sweet to watch. The relationship between those two is so ambiguous most of the time that an episode like this that underlined the fact they feel more than a sword and a master was both needed and nice. No matter how much of a strategician and schemer Togame is, she's still somehow so naive and innocent that the kiss must have been genuine and not manipulation at all.

I'm happy the opponent in this episode didn't die. The fight was objectively speaking underwhelming and thus Zanki dying would have meant nothing. But considering everything else that happened, she staying alive felt more wholesome, especially since she handed over the sword willingly after losing.

[Ryllharu]

The highlights for me were Kiguchi's early misunderstandings paralleled with Togame's. Kiguchi wandered in on them in what appeared as an "embrace" with Togame's legs wrapping around Shichika, which she later admitted set off her own heart on a diversion toward more carnal desires rather than perfection of her harmless sword style. This worked nicely with Togame's hallucinations of very classic shoujo style romantic interludes between Shichika and Higuchi and her futile attempts to either catch a glance of him or seduce him at the dojo.

Togame's freakouts were funny, but all in all this episode was somewhat lacking in substance (or perhaps more appropriately, depth) compared to previous episodes. I liked that Shichika brought up Meisai more than once, this episode was largely the antithesis of that one. That one full of substance beyond the interactions of Shichika and Togame, and this one focusing deeply on it for a comedy focus.

I should also note that the gun "swords" were as devastating as I suspected they would be. After all, in a world dominated by swords, who would expect such a thing to even exist? Facing those will be a climactic fight. There was no skill, no honor in how he slayed her. It was cold, ruthless, and sterile.

[shinta|hikari]

I also loved the sheer frequency of the misunderstandings on Togame's part. It was quite a parody of the usual shounen misunderstanding scene. I love how Katanagatari does satire without making fun of itself too much.

[Archangel]

Katanagatari takes a different approach with its moe but does it splendidly in its own way

I'm not opposed to an episode like this so close to the climax, i have a feeling we'll have plenty of drama with the finale already

[Kraco]

Your heart is where your home is:

Episode 10 - Mazui (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_10_FF137AC4.mkv.torrent)





- - - - - - - - --




The episodes have been getting a bit different towards the end and this one certainly makes no exception. The opponent this time was more interested in teaching lessons than fighting (as expected from a holy man). While that's not altogether different from last month, I suppose there's still the difference that rather than fighting at all, he made them fight themselves. A somewhat psychological episode.

Still, looking at in retrospect, I'm not yet sure how much it mattered. Togame will become more straightforward with her feelings? Shichika is so thick I'm not sure this pushed him much to any direction - in the end he had been fighting for Togame's sake from the beginning so that was hardly a great discovery. Also, like he said himself, any connection between his line and Shikizaki Kiki is of limited practical importance unless it somehow ends up affecting the sword collecting itself.

[Archangel]

I think you're underestimating the value of this episode Kraco

Character development aside, Princess Hime is the descendant of Shikizaki Kiki and Shichika is the final and by that logic the most perfect of the deviant blades. Now, if anyone would know how to defeat him or at least be aware of some inherent weakness it would be his creator's ancestor wouldn't you agree? Not to mention that the princess is now suspicious about Togame's ancestry which would put her in quite some trouble should it become public

Also, I'm very curious to see what manner of poison resides within Shichika seeing as he's one of the accursed blades

Touhou seems to have succumbed to the poison, though i wouldn't leave the possibility of a trap laying in wait either.

I fucking love this show, can't believe it's almost been a year since it started.

[Kraco]

It's not like Shichika would have been unbeatable until now. He has lost fights and won some only by following Togame's schemes. So, figuring out his weaknesses is not any groundbreaking thing.

I'm not really underestimating the meaningfulness of the ep. Just the value of some of the details in it. I'm also happy it seemed to bring Shichika and Togame even closer together and Togame possibly reached a bit more peaceful mindset by coming to terms with one part of her past. Shichika's mentality has been going all over the place towards the end of the series and I'm not sure how much impact this episode had on that. I guess the next fights will reveal that.

[Archangel]

That's not what i'm talking about, i mean an inherent weakness within the Kyotouryuu that could be used against him. Remember Jade Empire?

Also i think anyone might argue that the meaningfulness of an episode should be judged by the value of its details, so aren't you contradicting yourself a bit?

I've learned not to expect much out of character development in Katanagatari. It's consistently there, but it's so obvious that it sort of loses its value. Thankfully character interactions more than make up for it as far as I'm concerned.

[Buffalobiian]

So according to Mr. Sage, Kyotōryuu is more complete than those revolvers.

It'll be interesting to see him defeat all of those swords later, if that is to happen. Countless times we've heard practitioners seeking to let the sword become part of their body - I'll look forward to how the opposite would work out to being the perfect blade.

[Ryllharu]

I thought the part with Hitei was out of place. I was under the impression that she already knew who Togame really was. Other people seemed to early on. There were frequent musing about why she would be working for what should be her enemies. I took it as just another of Hitei's backwards insults. Hitei uses that style of speaking all the time. She asks questions that both she and the person she's talking to know the answer to, like taunting them with the fact that she already knows all about whatever the subject is, that she has all their secrets. I guess the only difference is that she ordered Enmonzaemon to go find out. Her motives are always in question in my opinion.

As for her being a descendant of Shikizaki Kiki, it puts an even bigger question on her motives. Is she still seeking them for power, or is she seeking them to get back what she feels is rightfully hers just to possess them? Does she know some secret about collecting them all, or does she know the individual weakness of each? Are they tools, or trophies? Is she ashamed of the legacy they create and want to destroy them or seal them forever?

However, I don't think that secret bloodline will help her in some way against Shichika and Togame. A sword doesn't change. The one Konayuki has can only be wielded by Konayuki (or Nanami, but she's dead). It's just too heavy. But a fighting style can change. Shichika has developed a technique that no one else has in the history of the style. He uses them in a different way, it is loaded with imperfections. He is a living, breathing sword that changes, shifts, and most importantly, evolves.

His Kyotoryuu is likely vastly different from the one Shikizaki Kiki helped create. He's been through things and faced more powerful swords than anyone else in his style's history. Most importantly, he is not a sword using itself like the Biyorigou (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=character&charid=21440), his father, or Nanami. He is wielded by Togame. That's the conclusion Higaki attempted to teach him. Her schemes and directions are how she uses him. She thinks and moves, he just cuts and parries.

That's what I took out the, "people who die are killed," conversation. Shichika has killed no small number of people. Did they really all need to die? Kiguchi Zanki still has not died. In fact, he learned more from her after defeating her. Shichika still believes he has "lost" to her. And as a swordsman, he has. As a sword, he has not. He kills because Togame wills it, he is her sword. As long as he keeps that in mind, he retains his edge, and fights not as a sword with weaknesses, but as a sword used by one of the most clever people in Japan. Shichika felt guilty about killing Meisai and Nanami. He feels upset about losing to Konayuki and Zanki. But if Togame wills it, he doesn't need to get all mixed up and confused about it, he is her blade. In her hands, he needs to protect her, and kill for her.

Kind of a cold conclusion to get out of it, but that was my take. I'd love to see what others got out of that particular conversation with Higaki Rinne.

[Kraco]

That's what I took out the, "people who die are killed," conversation.

I didn't much appreciate that conversation. Why talk to the sword about it in the first place if the conclusion is that he's a sword that kills or refrains from killing according to the wielder's will? But maybe I just got oversensitive the moment I thought I discerned pacifism. I just viewed the whole thing as a continuation to Shichika's growth as a human. Maybe the holy man deduced that was Shichika's greatest adversary (in his nature) and tried to make him confront it. He hasn't actually fought much of anybody ever since Nanami so we don't know how quick he's to kill anymore, how much he judges the opponents' lives worth. It's clear enough he's not just a sword anymore.

[David75]

So Shichika still has things to do with Kiguchi Zanki...

I can't say I like those self fighting eps, as they are a rather widespread plot idea used in many shows/stories be they anime/tv shows/movies from the US, Japan, France and probably other countries.

Let's see how everything unfolds.

[shinta|hikari]

I love Zanki. I hope she gets more screen time, but Togame just had to spoil it.

[masamuneehs]

i'm not really a big fan of the whole 'i am the descendant of... and so i possess ...'s secrets and this will be % relevant to our fateful fight/encounter' it was interesting (and makes tons of sense) that Kyoutoryuu itself is a Deviant Blade. of course, the interesting question is whether it has any 'poison' at all, or if, being made after the 12 swords, it's only weakness is being a human rather than a sword...

i thought the holy man was a bit annoying, and i always find most philosophical, soul-searching episodes to be a bit empty, because the characters will inevitably stick to their old ways for the sake of continuing the relationship with the viewer, and the lessons they've learned will only flare up to give them a decisive advantage in X/Y/Z fight/encounter, along with an annoying "there's something i've learned along the way, and it's blahblahblah" speeches.

i'm more interested in seeing us get down to business with Houou, the Masked Guy, and Shichika.

and, yeah, it doesn't make any sense for Hitei to not know about Togame's personal history. so many others knew about it...

[shinta|hikari]

I think Shichika has poisoned Togame more than enough. A swordsman that loves her blade as she does can only be seen as already poisoned. She might even be able to sacrifice her limbs, her goal, or maybe even her life for her sword in the future (if not now), acts that are unimaginable for a normal user and blade.

[Kraco]

Whether that's deviant poison or simply a woman falling for a man is another question. Zanki spent plenty of time with Shichika and also had physical contacts with him, but hardly resisted when he left with Togame.

I can't really consider Shichika's hypothetical poison a relevant question since he's still a human, even if Shikizaki Kiki was around to manipulate the birth of the Kyoutoryuu line.

[shinta|hikari]

What I mean is, the very fact that Shichika is human is the poison. It is because he is a human sword that his user Togame fell in love with him.

I was speaking in a figurative sense rather than a mystical sense when I used the term poison, but I bet that is what the author is going for as well.

[masamuneehs]

What I mean is, the very fact that Shichika is human is the poison. It is because he is a human sword that his user Togame fell in love with him.

I was speaking in a figurative sense rather than a mystical sense when I used the term poison, but I bet that is what the author is going for as well.


well, you've just earned about all the insight points i could have awarded on this subject. i was thinking that "shichika's 'poison' is his humanity" but i always seem to forget that it's Togame who is wielding him, and that she would be the one affected by it, not him. guess i'm always thinking of the actual combat, and not really the stuff that goes on on the sidelines...

[David75]

Zanki would not have been affected by the poison as she never was the wielder... she was always fighting against Shichika. Even when they last trained and she showed quite a bit of control there.

About that last training, anyone felt Shichika was barely defending himself and she was really near being stronger/better than he is, when she's not a specialist in kyoutoryu and he trained so hard from a very young age?
That was to my eyes quite a problem, a hint that our perception of Shichika's strenght is probably higher than its actual worth... When he was against Nanami or the amazingly strong little girl, you could always have said that those were particular cases of monstruous gift.
But Zanki is hasn't been depicted as particularly strong/gifted. She trained hard in her own art, yes, but that doesn't explain why she was so near Shichika's level. Also, I found her comment on her limits a tad fishy... or maybe even ironic. Telling Shichika it is better to stop there before she puts him to shame.

[shinta|hikari]

Zanki was pretending. She herself admitted she was desperate in that short exchange. The reason she looked so composed was because she was trying her best to put up a front. It is not in her personality to lie about her actions either. If it had gone on longer (probably in the very next clash), Shichika would have wiped the floor with her. That is probably the reason she admitted defeat at that point.

[David75]

Still, Shichika thought he lost to her at that time, or my memory isn't good enough?
Did that exchange seem dangerous enough for him to feel that way?

[shinta|hikari]

He lost as a swordsman (when he fought her while using a shinai). He isn't a swordsman though. He can't even hold a sword and walk properly.

After that, he wasn't even given a chance to give her the same kind of beating in his own turf because Kiguchi was smart enough to quit while she is ahead. I can't blame him for feeling defeated.

[Kraco]

Shichika of the old would have likely given her a much worse beating. Now he's half sword - half human at best or worst, however you look at it. He can't anymore enter every brawl like a fight to death of an utmost importance (and no regard whatsoever to the life of the opponent). He didn't want to kill Zanki, I reckon, and that somewhat lessened his skills in that particular fight.

And yeah, Shinta, I get your point about the poison now. I agree.

[shinta|hikari]

If it was the old Shichika, Zanki would probably be dead in the very first grab move that Shichika landed. The sword Shichika would never let an enemy live (or even see any reason to do so unless ordered by Togame) given such an opening.

I'm glad for his change though. I love Kiguchi too much to let Shichika kill her like he did my other Katanagatari favorite (Nanami).

[Archangel]

I'm sorry, are you really counting Love as a poison? :o

[shinta|hikari]

Yes, figuratively. I'm sure you know what I mean when I say it was the author's intent rather than it being a mystical power like the other swords.

[Archangel]

What if it had been a dude to pick up Shichika then?

Katanagatari no Pico?

[shinta|hikari]

They would be best friends. Attachment is not restricted to romance you know.

[Archangel]

Hey, you were the one who started using the world love.

If you had said obsession i might have agreed but i just can't see how Love can be viewed as a poison regardless of your perspective. Not the pure kind they both seem to have anyway.

[Buffalobiian]

Hey, you were the one who started using the world love.

If you had said obsession i might have agreed but i just can't see how Love can be viewed as a poison regardless of your perspective. Not the pure kind they both seem to have anyway.

Poison in that it leads to your ruin as a wielder/swordsman.

[Archangel]

Poison in that it leads to your ruin as a wielder/swordsman.
The only one who has ruined herself with her blade was Nanami and that's only because it was her intention all along.

The poison itself refers to how their wielders will do anything to keep the blade to themselves, ruin may come from that fact but it's usually happening around them as opposed to directly to them.

[Kraco]

How does love not make you do anything within you power and beyond to keep the target of your love? Whole wars have been fought over love.

[shinta|hikari]

The poison itself refers to how their wielders will do anything to keep the blade to themselves, ruin may come from that fact but it's usually happening around them as opposed to directly to them.

I'm pretty sure Togame plans on keeping Shichika to herself, as evident from her actions when he was with Zanki. Also, the wielder does not necessarily need to be willing to do anything to keep the blade to be "poisoned". Zanki fought on equal terms with Shichika even if it put her on a definite path to losing. She even let go of the sword willingly after admitting defeat herself. Konayuki let go of her sword too.

[Archangel]

Well that's the only part i have a problem with, i more or less agree with the rest

[Buffalobiian]

Mazui - Episode 11 (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_11_3EBE5850.mkv.torrent)

[Kraco]

Needless to say, the whole lethargy of the Houou fight was wiped from the mind with this ending. Nothing less from Katanagatari - even though I'd have been expecting something like that even without the ominous words by the narrator before they went to the village. Although it's pretty hard to judge this series in the sense of trying to predict whether Togama dies or not. I'd say not, but you never know.

I wonder how many seconds Emonzaemon will live from the beginning of the last episode.

[Buffalobiian]

I liked the reverse engineering trick they pulled at the end. It explains these swords' powers well enough, and even makes Emonzaemon's pistols believable in such an era in order to slot these adventures in as a "forgotten history". (I'm pretty sure I heard cannon sounds in the background from the 700-years-ago flashback though).

[Kraco]

(I'm pretty sure I heard cannon sounds in the background from the 700-years-ago flashback though).

Sengoku era was around 1400-1600, or so. The Japanese already had the firearms the always helpful Europeans had brought them.

[Ryllharu]

I've been expecting her to be shot (by Hitei though, not Enmonzaemon) since the Entou first appeared in Hitei's possession. Shichika should be able to easily beat most of his opponents having come this far, so what better way to counter him than to strike at his vulnerable master? Togame is really the only sword user in Japan who fights separated from her weapon. She has no defenses. Hitei comes off to me as liking to believe she can defeat Togame on a mental/political level, but who would resort to nefarious use of force the second she starts to feel she's losing. That said, from Pengin voicing the Maniwani's general fears about her, Togame is not a whole lot different.

Especially against a weapon like Entou, Shichika cannot defend Togame. He is quick enough to get in the way of any sword users, and there was only that close call in the desert once. I've actually been impressed that no one has gone after her so directly thus far. I suppose most Deviant Blade holders had their pride. Enmonzaemon (un)surprisingly does not. He follows Hitei's every command.

Though, from another point of view, Enmonzaemon is merely deftly dodging Togame's blade and cutting her, same as in any sword fight.

[Archangel]

Epic episode, but i surely hope Emozaemon has a good reason for striking Togame first and Shichika second

I mean really, why on earth would an assasin show his attack to his target before killing him? Especially when the target is the world's strongest swordsman.

[Ryllharu]

I mean really, why on earth would an assasin show his attack to his target before killing him? Especially when the target is the world's strongest swordsman.I could think of two reasons:

- Hitei has always viewed Togame as the bigger threat, and she's right. Shichika can't win without Togame wielding him (thinking for him). They jokingly discussed that her schemes usually resulted in him just using brute force anyway, but that really oversimplifies her involvement in obtaining the swords. If brute force or skill alone could take the blades, Sabi Hakuhei or the Maniwani would have already had the blades. She has always been Hitei's only true enemy.

- Hitei wants to collect all the Deviant Blades. Say that she knows about Kyotoryuu as well as its current status as a blade, and figures she needs to "take" Shichika from Togame, but only after it has been completed, which it finally did. She indeed had a line about telling who I can only assume Enmonzaemon to, "go finish off the last of your duties, at least," and "at least die beautifully for me." The only other possibility is Houou, but seeing as she was looking at the letter/report, I doubt it.

[Archangel]

Your first reason is retarded beyond reasoning but i can get behind number 2, though for all of Togame's praise on how cunning princess Hitei is i find it quite foolish of her to believe she can tame Shichika for herself.

[Ryllharu]

"Retarded beyond reasoning"?

Care to back that statement with reasons why? If you're trying to defend not giving counterpoints by the "beyond reasoning" part, it makes it look like you just didn't understand it.

Hitei and Togame play games that transcend brute force. They have been this entire time. Togame has been making her moves since before the series started. She made a crucial one tracking down Kyotoryuu to take out her previous mercenaries and seducing him into loyalty. Their goals have been clarified a bit by the soothsayer conversation and the ties with her father's dying words. The Maniwani back it up by being afraid of Togame. How is that "retarded"?

[Archangel]

Because even if you kill its master a wild dog will still bite your neck clean off

What exactly would be Togame's strategy when facing a three-feet-away gun wielding Enmonzaemon on her own?

[Ryllharu]

Because both she and Hitei never fight their own battles. They use proxies. Only now Hitei has done something to prove she's inferior in intellect. She's had Togame plainly assassinated.

I guess you could also argue she's finishing up her plan, but it would have been more satisfying to her to drive Togame into ruin (financial, politically, influentially) first.

[Kraco]

After reading Ryll's post, and thinking back to the letter scene, it seems reasonable Hitei ordered Emonzaemon to kill Togame right in front of Shichika. And then face the obvious consequences. Emonzaemon is quite her man to follow such an order to the letter.

What exactly Hitei is planning, though, is another question. I agree with Archie on it hardly giving her a chance to win Shichika over.

[Ryllharu]

But Shichika is stupid. All she'd have to do is declare that Enmozaemon acted on his own. He can't argue, he'd be dead. Shichika would probably believe her. He'd still be very angry, but I can't see him thinking straight after seeing Togame get shot.

Shichika could barely follow the catty interaction between Hitei and Togame back in episode 8. While I agree it is considerably unlikely, if anyone could confuse and seduce Shichika after Togame is dead, it would be Hitei. She's just that evil.

[Kraco]

Even Shichika should have wits enough to know Togame and Hitei are enemies. Emon was Hitei's direct subordinate so anybody would be suspicious, even Shichika. Even if Hitei somehow convinced him Emon was acting on his own, it would still be worlds apart from her getting anywhere close to him. Besides, if Togame dies, I'm not sure he would have any interest in getting close to anybody for the time being. Nor how much the wisdom would there be in anybody trying to get close to him...

[shinta|hikari]

I think they shot Togame thinking that a sword that has lost its wielder will become useless. Shichika never fought for himself, only for Togame, just like any other weapon.

Unfortunately for Emon and Hitei, killing Togame "completed" the 13th deviant blade, which I believe means that it can now act on its own will, even without a wielder.

[Buffalobiian]

Unfortunately for Emon and Hitei, killing Togame "completed" the 13th deviant blade, which I believe means that it can now act on its own will, even without a wielder.

I think that hits the mark. Considering how Shikizaki's previous blades were perfect, but never complete, it only makes sense that a completed sword will be the best because having a wielder unable to realise its true power isn't an issue - that it can act on its own.

I never thought of that as being why Kyotouryu was considered the (would be) completed blade.

[Xelbair]

So how much time does Emonzaemon have left to live? In milliseconds please.

[Buffalobiian]

So how much time does Emonzaemon have left to live? In milliseconds please.

I sure as hell hope that doesn't happen.

If Emon goes down just like that, what's Shichika going to beat up for half an hour? Hitei?

It's the final episode, we need a boss :( (and that missing fight with Japan's Strongest Swordsman on BD)

[Archangel]

Lets start a poll, who here thinks Togame will die and who thinks she'll live?

[oyabun]

Hmm I think Togame will die. There was definitely a lot of blood on the floor and the weapon is pretty much foreign to them. Besides Togame is physically weak. It would be a miracle if she survives.

[Xelbair]

I think she'll either die right now, or be severely wounded so Shichika will think of her as dead.

[Kraco]

Experts agree: Togame is dead or alive:

Episode 12 Final - Mazui (http://mazuisubs.com/torrents/Mazui_Katanagatari_-_12_32DE9A50.mkv.torrent)














- - - - - - - - - -







Having been about 50-50 divided on expecting Togame's death or survival, I can't say seeing her go would have overly much surprised me. Nor moved because I felt the death scene was somewhat stretched and thus the impact lessened to minimum. But later happenings considered, maybe that was intentional. However, it made me finally realise this was, as the name suggests, a story of swords, not people. And Togame was just a person in the grand scheme of things.

Still, when Shichika attacked the castle I seriously thought for a moment the story had lost itself, turning into the most obvious of things, even if he told he went there to die, not exact revenge. My faith finally returned with the Emon fight and subsequent events that didn't see Shichika slaying Hitei. I'm also happy with the reason he told for killing the shogun.

Another thing that made me satisfied was that Shichika actually got something out of all of Togame's ramblings before she died and found a meaning in them. While her death scene itself didn't impress me much, at least it wasn't empty talk.

Finally, Hitei actually following Shichika on his journeys when he didn't find death after all, was a funny detail. I guess Shichika likes difficult women...

[Buffalobiian]

I really don't know what to think about this, besides as Kraco said, to think about it as "The Chronicles of the Swords", "The Life of Yasuri Shichika" or something. I'll have to watch it again to get all the other bits and pieces (and trust Mazui on their translation). The first viewing was all about watching Shichika pwn his way to the top.

Shichika's win over Emon by being "willing to take his shots" won by deus ex.. If two non-vital shots killed Togame, what do you call those? They could have used "reload" as his weakness if they needed one. At the very least Shichika decided to search for landmarks instead of death after all that. He must have realised he'd never find it.



Another thing that made me satisfied was that Shichika actually got something out of all of Togame's ramblings before she died and found a meaning in them. While her death scene itself didn't impress me much, at least it wasn't empty talk.


Perhaps the most satisfying thing for me was that Shichika kept some of Togame's hair. Disobeying her, looking for death and keeping nothing but memories of her would have just been.. sad. :(

[Ryllharu]

Perhaps the most satisfying thing for me was that Shichika kept some of Togame's hair. Disobeying her, looking for death and keeping nothing but memories of her would have just been.. sad. :(Not only did he keep a lock of her hair, he continued to check it throughout the fights, Enmonzaemon's in particular. Bloodsoaked as he was, grievously injured as he was, Shichika got not even a single drop of blood on her hair. I found that part of this finale very touching.

The ending scene with Hitei caught me off guard, but I guess he seduced her, not the other way around that I feared might happen at the end of last episode.

It was startling how much stronger he became when he no longer had to keep from breaking the swords. Konayuki's heavy one in particular. Thinking back, it makes you realize how much different the fights could have gone. When it looked like he was in trouble, he probably never truly was, he just had to play by the rules Togame set out for him.

[shinta|hikari]

That was an awesome ending.

It betrayed so many of my expectations, and I found myself starting to feel dissatisfied when the credits rolled in. But the epilogue gave the tragedy much more meaning. Shichika was completed as a deviant blade in the fights in the castle, but his travels completed him as a person. Togame gave him direction and purpose as a human, and Hitei provides fuel. While Shichika may seem like he dislikes her company, I feel she is a necessary element to Shichika moving on and truly living.

Hitei is a lot more likable when she isn't shouldering the burden of her lineage. I have no complaints with Shichika and her ending up together. The part where he said his line at the perfect time (like always) and how Hitei reacted significantly lifted my evaluation for this show. I guess part of Hitei's motive and reward in following Shichika is to get to know a different side of Togame, who she didn't not not hate, better.

@Buff - I actually think that allowing yourself to get flesh wounds is a very large upgrade when fighting someone of equal caliber. There are openings that can only be taken advantage of if you are prepared to get injured. Shichika's body was practically inhuman, and he didn't get his critical organs damaged. Togame was a frail girl. I can see why she died from 2 shots while Shichika survived much more punishment. Besides, I think Emon actually hit several organs with those 2 shots, just not organs that would cause instant death or prevent her from talking when damaged (i.e. heart, brain, lungs)

@Ryll - There was one fight where he truly was in trouble, and that was with his sister. Rather than Shichika being monstrous, I think Kyoutoryuu (bloodline, not just the martial art) itself is extremely imbalanced. Shichika also had the advantage of knowing all the swords intimately (which he owes to Togame), and facing off against really inept swordsmen.

The Maniwa that used Konayuki's sword was just epic. He practically killed himself.

[Kraco]

The funniest of the fights was the kid who got the sheath. He also didn't even get killed, just knocked out.

I also didn't dislike Hitei accompanying Shichika. It was due to three reasons: Togame's dying speech, Hitei confessing she didn't really hate Togame, and finally Hitei getting no special treatment from Shichika during the journey (although I'd have nothing against those two even becoming lovers later on).

[David75]

That last ep didn't work well for me.
But I don't care since the other eps were very nice.

I guess we might have the "glass sword" ep later?

[Buffalobiian]

Not only did he keep a lock of her hair, he continued to check it throughout the fights, Enmonzaemon's in particular. Bloodsoaked as he was, grievously injured as he was, Shichika got not even a single drop of blood on her hair. I found that part of this finale very touching.

And when he looked at the hair after Emon's fight, he even opted to go back to retrieve Emon's mask for Hitei, as well as tell her his final words - to return the same treatment Emon gave him. She even treated it in the same manner.

I thought that was.. rather human of him to do so. In fact, he seemed to loosen up a bit after he killed Emon. Regardless of what Shichika says, deep down he wanted to kill Emon or die trying.


That was an awesome ending.

It betrayed so many of my expectations, and I found myself starting to feel dissatisfied when the credits rolled in. But the epilogue gave the tragedy much more meaning. Shichika was completed as a deviant blade in the fights in the castle, but his travels completed him as a person. Togame gave him direction and purpose as a human, and Hitei provides fuel. While Shichika may seem like he dislikes her company, I feel she is a necessary element to Shichika moving on and truly living.

Hitei is a lot more likable when she isn't shouldering the burden of her lineage. I have no complaints with Shichika and her ending up together. The part where he said his line at the perfect time (like always) and how Hitei reacted significantly lifted my evaluation for this show. I guess part of Hitei's motive and reward in following Shichika is to get to know a different side of Togame, who she didn't not not hate, better.

I didn't mind her. It's interesting how they (Hitei and Togame) both look better with a haircut. Makes me wonder what Nanami would have looked like.



@Buff - I actually think that allowing yourself to get flesh wounds is a very large upgrade when fighting someone of equal caliber. There are openings that can only be taken advantage of if you are prepared to get injured. Shichika's body was practically inhuman, and he didn't get his critical organs damaged. Togame was a frail girl. I can see why she died from 2 shots while Shichika survived much more punishment. Besides, I think Emon actually hit several organs with those 2 shots, just not organs that would cause instant death or prevent her from talking when damaged (i.e. heart, brain, lungs)

Only problem with this is that "taking damage" isn't simply physical pain, but also disables your attacking power. Inhuman body aside, he should be fainting from bloodloss, and his arms shouldn't have the same mobility and strength as they did earlier. If some blood on the floor bothers Shichika, think of what a dozen bullets should be doing.

Rewatching the ep, I saw more sense in it though, and that "reload" did come into play in that Emon used up all his bullets. I was wondering why he stopped firing, since he had seemingly unlimited ammo prior.

Rewatching also raised another question, however. I thought Emon's special attack (like Houou's) was about absorbing all of the opponent's lifeforce in one strike.



The Maniwa that used Konayuki's sword was just epic. He practically killed himself.

The funniest of the fights was the kid who got the sheath. He also didn't even get killed, just knocked out.

Indeed. My favourite fights were the ones against Sentou and Yorogi (Thousand Swords and Armour). They were simply brutal.



I guess we might have the "glass sword" ep later?

I think so too. It would only boost DVD sales, after all.



--------------------------

PS: don't get me wrong, I liked this ep fine.

[Arcn3ss]

Not sure if this has been posted before but I apologize if so. (too lazy to check)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ID65QYXO <-- katanagatari OST 1

Togame ;_; I <3 you still!

As with any anime i watch, I am always sadden by the fact the characters don't get the happy ending I envisioned them getting. But by the same token unless there is tragedy I tend to forget about the anime quicker and it leaves less of an impact on me. So its give and take I guess. Tragedy is both good and bad in Anime.

My math equation for the day: Tragedy = epicness + :(

I did enjoy the ending and the epilogue helped bring it back to a "somewhat" happier ending for shichika. At least he didn't go back the island of his birth alone.

[Inazuma]

You guys reviewed it the hell out of it so I won't anything except one thing.

This - was magnificient went it came to execution, on a technical level, attachment, feelings, pacing everything led to that conclusion.
Togame dying really felt like a nuclear submarine surfacing in the middle of bathtub, at loss for words.

I just hope we can get some more from the same team, because potential is there, talent looms and Bluray sales will be rewarding.

[Xelbair]

Look closer at Togame's death words - she first tried to form a strategy to counter Entou Jyuu, but she wasn't able to form any scheme.

She formed another scheme instead - she tried to fool Shichika that she was using him. I think she knew that he would go and obliterate anyone on his way to Emonzaemon, and probably die trying, so she was trying to convince him that she was only using him so he would instead start to hate her, and, hopefully, won't go on killing spree.

She basically was trying to sacrifice memories of herself, in hope of saving Shichika's life.

[Buffalobiian]

Look closer at Togame's death words - she first tried to form a strategy to counter Entou Jyuu, but she wasn't able to form any scheme.

She formed another scheme instead - she tried to fool Shichika that she was using him. I think she knew that he would go and obliterate anyone on his way to Emonzaemon, and probably die trying, so she was trying to convince him that she was only using him so he would instead start to hate her, and, hopefully, won't go on killing spree.

She basically was trying to sacrifice memories of herself, in hope of saving Shichika's life.

I'm not too sure.

Throughout the series I've been trying to put my hand on exactly what her purple eye means and signifies. During her speech, it flicked on when she was talking about using him (and everything else) as a pawn for her goals.

I've come to the conclusion that the eye signifies her ambition and her revenge whatever you call her motivation for what she does. It first appeared when her father was killed, and finally disappeared when she was dying. In this episode, it was also synonymous with the snake that chained her to the path that she took.

I don't think she was lying when she said she would kill Shichika. What she said made sense. There was a side to Togame that loved Shichika and wished for them to be together, and she allowed herself to go with that because it was beneficial to her greater cause.

[Kraco]

Throughout the series I've been trying to put my hand on exactly what her purple eye means and signifies. During her speech, it flicked on when she was talking about using him (and everything else) as a pawn for her goals.

I've come to the conclusion that the eye signifies her ambition and her revenge whatever you call her motivation for what she does.

Yeah, I've called it an eye of ambition (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?p=457331&postcount=62) from the beginning. Comparing it to that snake is apt because she couldn't escape her fate (ambition/revenge) and thus died trying to reach it.

I also don't think she lied about planning to kill Shichika, but I also don't think she would have killed him had she survived. She would have lived with him till dying of old age or other causes, telling herself in her mind that she should kill him but in reality never doing it and enjoying his company. That much is evident by the fact she really wanted Shichika to keep living and not die for her sake.

[KitKat]

Well, I finally got around to finishing this series today instead of working on my homework. They tricked me with the silly lighthearted episodes in the middle into thinking that everything would be ok. But everyone kept dying :( Ever since the episode where Shichika killed his sister, things started spiraling into chaos and death. This series left me in a state of mourning for what could have been and what didn't need to be. I've watched sad anime before, but for some reason I found this one more upsetting than usual. Even the fact that Shichika survived and carried out making the map of Japan doesn't make it any easier for me. Like having someone give me an umbrella to compensate for burning down my house.

[Kraco]

This series left me in a state of mourning for what could have been and what didn't need to be. I've watched sad anime before, but for some reason I found this one more upsetting than usual.

Philosophically thinking it's not fair to blame the series if it turned out differently than your expactations, as long as it didn't turn to clearly poor quality. Someone wrote this story, giving their all, so the story such be judged as it is, not as it could have been. Like I said in an earlier post, this ending underlined the fact this was a story of swords above all, not a traditional love/adventure. So, in fact, this is what it should have been and ending in any other way could have been betraying its core.

[KitKat]

I'm not blaming the story, I'm just sad. Yes, it was a quality series. But it also made me unhappy. I don't like being unhappy. It's the writer's prerogative to write their story however they see fit, but I'm allowed to enjoy or not enjoy their story because ultimately a story is meant to provoke a response from its audience. The story can aim toward a certain response, but a story never controls its viewers. We all interpret stories through the lens of our mindset and worldview. No matter how fitting or well-crafted the ending was, I can't escape the fact that I feel dissatisfied and depressed. Though, in the end, it's just a story, and I'll get over it by tomorrow and move on.

[Kraco]

That's certainly true. But don't you think a sad story every now and then is good to save the happy stories from inflation..?