Naruto Chapter 462

[Pandadice]

462 is out ^^

onemanga (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/462/01/)

[Tyreal]

This chapter got me thinking. Is it possible that Naruto is somehow related to the First Hokage? We have never really known much about his mother and father. And if it's possible for no one to of known Naruto was the Fourth's son it is more than possible that no one/not many people know of his relation to the First Hokage.

[shinta|hikari]

Wouldn't that make him overpowered? I think Madara was simply referring to his "will of fire" crap.

So Sasuke is simply one emo brat trying to get back at everyone he thinks hurt him, big surprise.

This series will most likely end with a Sasuke and Naruto face off. With what Madara said, it is impossible for it not to happen. It will be a close match, and Naruto will win of course. Oh well, at least it is certain that I will get to see Sasuke and his pathetic facade of pride get torn to pieces upon being defeated, even if it is the most predictable outcome.

Who knows, maybe Kishi will surprise us by actually making Naruto kill Sasuke.

[Tyreal]

Wouldn't that make him overpowered? I think Madara was simply referring to his "will of fire" crap.

How will that make him overpowered? Finding out he's related to the Senju clan wont change any of the abilities he has or his chakra at all.

[SilentSnake]

Who knows, maybe Kishi will surprise us by actually making Naruto kill Sasuke.


After yet again confirming Naruto's "peace and love" attitude? Sasuke going out of chakra and dying is more likely imo, but with the way Kishi is leading the story and with his favourite character being Sasuke I don't see Sasuke dying, so I'd go with redemption.

Naruto's positive attitude is being reinforced throughout the whole series, he even forgave pain and been a punching bag for Sasuke's evil deeds...giving up on Sasuke might have been a reasonable thing to do, but it wouldn't fit to the chivalrous spirit of Naruto.

[FireEmblem]

The point is that Naruto will CHANGE everything. Some people still don't see that?

There's always the chance that Madara is lying though. Or doing what he does best; manipulating.

[Death BOO Z]

wait, a moment, I remember being absurdly mad about something before Madara started bullshiting about the sharingan (note to authoer: destroy all paper and digital copies of the chapter where they say sharingan was mutated from the byakugan) and acting as if this wasn't his complete fault.

Lasers, that's it. I was mad about Juugo shooting out powerful lasers, what the hell?
Puppets are robots, so when they shoot laser beams, it's fine. the kyuubi is a dragon, so he can breath out laser chackra. robot payne was also a robot, so I understand chackra laser blasts.
why can juugo do that?

as for sasuke, why does he bother mind raping people when he can just as easily (and without the nasty side effects) stealth attack them with a judo chop (or a vulcan pressure point)?

where does payne (negato, whatever) fit in this senjou vs Uchiha battle of the ages thing? wasn't he at least one mind behind the akatsuki scheme (do we know what's the new scheme now?). at least that clears out why everyone can control Naruto's kyuubi (besides naruto, of course).

[animus]

I hate how he's going down the fated rivals final showdown path.

[Psyke]

The sad thing is that the chapter's setting up Sasuke for the win over the Raikage :(

[rockmanj]

w (note to author: destroy all paper and digital copies of the chapter where they say sharingan was mutated from the byakugan) .


Well, that could still work out. Its possible all the eye bloodlines descended from rin'engan. And yea, they are setting up Raikage to fail big time! It kinda sucks, and I like his character a lot (wayyy more than emo boy).

[Strider]

The sad thing is that the chapter's setting up Sasuke for the win over the Raikage :(

I swear I had the same thought, and really do not know how to really express my rage.

[Assertn]

I dunno, I don't think the backstory bothered me that much. Aside from, yeah, the byakugan's absence in the circle of hatred, it justifies where Sasuke is getting this sudden rush of bloodlust from.

[Wren]

The sad thing is that the chapter's setting up Sasuke for the win over the Raikage :(


sadly, this is the outcome the minute ANYONE fights the author's favorite character -_-; a shame since i find the cloud ninjas far more interesting than sasuke will ever be.

[Uchiha Barles]

You know, if it wasn't for Sasuke's homo-stained history, I'd be enjoying this bloodrage thing a great deal. He looked kind of cool clashing head on with the Raikage, like back in the days of the chuunin exam against orochimaru. Plus I mean, besides him being stupid, the kid has every reason one could need to turn out the way he's turning out.

Alright, done defending the little bitch for the year. Naruto most probably is senju, even if he's not a direct descendent of the first hokage. That "power of body" thing kind of makes it a dead giveaway.

[The Chancellor]

That "power of body" thing kind of makes it a dead giveaway. How do you mean? Because if you're saying that he can control bijuu and is inherently good natured, then I agree. But if you're getting into something else then I'm a bit lost of how it could be obvious.

[poopdeville]

Alright, done defending the little bitch for the year. Naruto most probably is senju, even if he's not a direct descendent of the first hokage. That "power of body" thing kind of makes it a dead giveaway.

So does "Senjutsu"

[darkshadow]

Interesting chapter, but man look at that last panel, raikage is buff/ripped as fuck, yet he moves around in Itachi speed.
Sasuke is going to have to come up with something magical to defeat raikage, killerbee already raped him, and raikage is supposed to be stronger. So far nothing sasuke has in his arsenal has any effect, so I really wonder how this is going to end.
Danzou stepping in?

[poopdeville]

Did anybody else notice that this is turning into a Bible story? The history of the Senju and Uchiha parallels the ancient and (aspects of the) modern history of the Jews and Arabic Muslims. The first Senju is Isaac, the second son born to Abraham. The first Uchiha is Ishmael.

[Naruto_RNG]

guys I'm gonna make a prediction. After the talks madara is gonna tell naruto where sasuke is and wut is happening. Naruto is free to make a choice between going now and try to save a friend or risk a ninja war. Of course as stupid as naruto is the friend card kicks in and he goes to where sasuke is. Upon his arrival he sees sasuke is about to get KO and decides to step in. While Naruto is having an argument wit raikage about the situation, sasuke uses this opportunity to kill raikage while his guard is down (this about the only way I c it where fans wont be that pissed off). Then the whole why u do that and shit takes place wit sasuke confirming wut madara told them and leaves. Naruto will be down on his pathetic knees sobbing about and all of sudden sakura comes in and the 2 will decide to hunt 4 sasuke.

As 4 the chapter I guess it was alrit. This uchiha crap is really getting bothersome.

[-=DS=-S.W.A.T3]

Did anybody else notice that this is turning into a Bible story? The history of the Senju and Uchiha parallels the ancient and (aspects of the) modern history of the Jews and Arabic Muslims. The first Senju is Isaac, the second son born to Abraham. The first Uchiha is Ishmael.


same with most stories they all either relate to the bible or ancient Greek myth or Celtic gods

[Pandadice]

i didn't like the whole "the entire naruto world is centered on naruto and sasuke".. like, i realize he's the named character and all, so yeah story focus-wise it would make sense. but just coming out and actually stating that hes the center of the universe, in the manga.. that just seems like too much.

yeah, i second the Juugo laser beam thing. i saw that and I was like "this ain't dbz, this is naruto!"

[Assertn]

Basically any ninjas outside of Konoha are of negligable relevance to the overall past and future of the Naruto world.

This also makes Hashirama becoming the 1st Hokage over Madara even more hilarious. "Well I suppose if you insist, we can break our ancient feud and bring back an era of peace.... wait, Senju is chosen to lead again? Fuck you guys."

[Logrus]

What i find more interssting is that Sasuke i being refferd as a "true avenger".
So i he gets his revenge vs Konoha and the manages to live what next?
Will he get upset over the smallest things and just avenge the birds for singing etc

What i think also otherwise is that wich ever wins Naruto who is "good" or Sasuke "evil" may determine how the ninja world goes on.

Lets face it Naruto Kuuybi mode/sage mode (and he might have the sharingna cuz of itachis doing) is to imba. Sasuke managing to beat him would make him even more Imba.

[Prof. Chaos]

What i find more interssting is that Sasuke i being refferd as a "true avenger".
So i he gets his revenge vs Konoha and the manages to live what next?
Will he get upset over the smallest things and just avenge the birds for singing etc

What i think also otherwise is that wich ever wins Naruto who is "good" or Sasuke "evil" may determine how the ninja world goes on.

Lets face it Naruto Kuuybi mode/sage mode (and he might have the sharingna cuz of itachis doing) is to imba. Sasuke managing to beat him would make him even more Imba.

Who says that when Naruto goes into Sage mode that he will be able to counter the Sharingan?

But back on the chapter. Throughout the series, there has always been talks of the future taking it to the next level from the previous generation. There are always going to be geniuses, but as a whole the next generation will surpass the last. So first we had the Sannin and Team 7 is supposed to have surpassed them (still waiting on Sakura). But having the whole Senju vs Uchiha come back as Naruto vs Sasuke isn't that big of a shocker.

[poopdeville]

Who says that when Naruto goes into Sage mode that he will be able to counter the Sharingan?


This is just a theory, but for one thing, we know that you can escape genjutsu by molding chakra in your brain to disrupt the genjutsu. Natural energy makes Naruto's chakra more potent, so it should be easier for him to disrupt the Sharingan's genjutsu. For another, Naruto can see natural energy (and maybe chakra) while in Sage Mode. That's how he found Pein. What I'm getting at is that Naruto has a way of seeing that Sasuke can't manipulate, unless he learns about natural energy.

It's obviously not confirmed, but I think it's plausible.

[Splash!]

So how does Pain fit into all of this? If he is a direct descendant of the sage, shouldnt he be one of Uchiha or Senju? (Unless the sage had more than 2 kids)

Given that Madara was bossing Pain around, how exactly did an Uchiha with his Sharingan gain superiority over someone with the Rinnegan? A descendant of someone who possesed only half the sage's traits surpassed the ability of the sage himself?

[SilentSnake]

So how does Pain fit into all of this? If he is a direct descendant of the sage, shouldnt he be one of Uchiha or Senju? (Unless the sage had more than 2 kids)

Given that Madara was bossing Pain around, how exactly did an Uchiha with his Sharingan gain superiority over someone with the Rinnegan? A descendant of someone who possesed only half the sage's traits surpassed the ability of the sage himself?

Madara is manipulating others with words, not with his sharingan, so it's hard to say he surpassed Pain ability-wise...

He was older and more experienced and he used Pain's past just like he used Sasuke's to make them help him achieve his own goals and that's pretty much there is to it imo.

[Logrus]

Who says that when Naruto goes into Sage mode that he will be able to counter the Sharingan?

Its a theory that itachi placed a Sharingan in naruto. Also the thing the guy said aboiut naruto being able to see chakra in sage mode. Also he can disable genjustus using only the kuuybi

[RasenDori]

I think this tale, like most of the things Madara says, is bullshit. Really, I take the things Madara says with a grain of salt. The Itachi thing was believable, but he flagrantly lied about the Kyuubi attack, and now he skews legends around to make his feud with Hashirama seem more epic.

[Assertn]

So how does Pain fit into all of this? If he is a direct descendant of the sage, shouldnt he be one of Uchiha or Senju? (Unless the sage had more than 2 kids)

Given that Madara was bossing Pain around, how exactly did an Uchiha with his Sharingan gain superiority over someone with the Rinnegan? A descendant of someone who possesed only half the sage's traits surpassed the ability of the sage himself?

The elder son of the sage had rinnegan, not sharingan. Therefore it was possible for multiple paths to branch out which eventually led to Rinnegan, Byakugan, and Sharingan from that one son. Still wouldn't explain why the Hyuga clan was exempted from this history of bloodshed though.

[Splash!]

The elder son of the sage had rinnegan, not sharingan. Therefore it was possible for multiple paths to branch out which eventually led to Rinnegan, Byakugan, and Sharingan from that one son. Still wouldn't explain why the Hyuga clan was exempted from this history of bloodshed though.

That makes alot more sense.

As for the Hyuga, a clan that descended from the elder son, they turned out to be very understanding since they whole heartedly embraced the leadership of the Senju. The Uchiha must have really hated the Hyuga for 'selling out'.

[FireEmblem]

I think this tale, like most of the things Madara says, is bullshit. Really, I take the things Madara says with a grain of salt. The Itachi thing was believable, but he flagrantly lied about the Kyuubi attack, and now he skews legends around to make his feud with Hashirama seem more epic.

Yeah this is completely possible. Madara can't just be all interested in this tale for no reason. If he has some diabolical plan, and if it is the fate of the Senju and Uchiha to be rivals and fight it out, then wouldn't it be in his best interest right now to take out Naruto? Unless the fate is just that powerful, that his admiration for Senju wont allow him to kill a person that is projecting Senju Hashirama.

Unless this is a fake Uchiha Madara of course...

[Darthmoe]

I'm going to go ahead and say that Sasuke has a plan that none of us realize yet. He is not really going after revenge on Konoha. I think he's only targeting Danzo, and perhaps something else that will be revealed to us at a later time.

[SilentSnake]

I'm going to go ahead and say that Sasuke has a plan that none of us realize yet. He is not really going after revenge on Konoha. I think he's only targeting Danzo, and perhaps something else that will be revealed to us at a later time.

Wishful thinking. I think it's something everybody would like to believe in after Sasuke disposing of Orochimaru, but now it's a bit different. Besides, if Sasuke has a great, good plan, then why have Naruto in the story in the first place?

Sasuke went bad, or at least - he should have!

[RasenDori]

Yeah this is completely possible. Madara can't just be all interested in this tale for no reason. If he has some diabolical plan, and if it is the fate of the Senju and Uchiha to be rivals and fight it out, then wouldn't it be in his best interest right now to take out Naruto? Unless the fate is just that powerful, that his admiration for Senju wont allow him to kill a person that is projecting Senju Hashirama.

Unless this is a fake Uchiha Madara of course...

Well in all honesty he probably has nothing against Naruto, (other then the whole being a jinchuuriki thing) so no real reason to "take him out" right now. He's also mentioned that he didn't think it would be that easy. (but, hell... if he can just pop out of nowhere in front of someone why not pop into Naruto's house in the middle of the village during his down time when no ones guarding him) I think right now after Nagato's betrayal he wants to gauge how dangerous Naruto's "other power" is to his goal.

[FireEmblem]

Well I would think that the fact that Naruto managed to make Nagato betray Madara is enough to trigger some kind of higher threat level to ANY plan that he may have. The fact that Naruto managed to do that should be enough to gauge how dangerous his power is.

He's committing the same mistake that Orochimaru made when he didn't kill Naruto in the forest of death. We know that was a mistake because Orochimaru himself stated so in his fight with Jiraiya and Tsunade.

[depthcharge]

I'm going to go ahead and say that Sasuke has a plan that none of us realize yet. He is not really going after revenge on Konoha. I think he's only targeting Danzo, and perhaps something else that will be revealed to us at a later time.



AFter it was revealed what Ithachi did, I tend to think the same way. I tend to think Sasuke may still be good. But unfortunately, right now the flow is, Sasuke is BAD ASS.

Just like Ithachi was when he was still alive. BAD ASS.

[shinta|hikari]

If what you mean by BAD ASS is being bad and an ass, then you are right.

[The Chancellor]

The elder son of the sage had rinnegan, not sharingan. Wouldn't that mean that Pain is the true original blood descendant? Since he had the original rinnegan I would think he's the true family member of the sage path.

I really don't see how his eyes could get further and further diluted and create new paths and powers along the family trees that are "created" from the rinnegan. And that seems to be a running theory with you Assert N. How would one eye technique branch off and create new ones when none of them even look the same. In fact the only similarity between all of them is the fact that they can see chakra and chakra colors.

[Assertn]

Wouldn't that mean that Pain is the true original blood descendant? Since he had the original rinnegan I would think he's the true family member of the sage path.
Pretty much, yeah.


I really don't see how his eyes could get further and further diluted and create new paths and powers along the family trees that are "created" from the rinnegan. And that seems to be a running theory with you Assert N. How would one eye technique branch off and create new ones when none of them even look the same. In fact the only similarity between all of them is the fact that they can see chakra and chakra colors.
That's not really a theory of mine. It's basically been stated by Madara.

[The Chancellor]

Pretty much, yeah.


Then that would mean it would also mean that technically he has the oldest eye techniques and the least useful one. Come to think of it I never saw pein do anything other than show us that he doesn't need any wifi security cameras in his house. And even weak ass Naruto found a way around that.

Wasn't it also said that he could use any ninja technique that he wanted a few arcs back? We never saw that and Naruto killed him. So he's dead without having to see anything epic copied or tried out. Now to me that is the biggest kishi plot hole as of date.

[Stitch]

Finally, a good chapter. Sasuke is totally bad ass right now. I don't really get where the emo rep is coming from anymore. I may be guilty of calling him emo in the past, but he is basically the Last of the Mohican now and he is ready to fuck people's shit up. Will he be able to do what Itachi was unable to do and defeat Madara while putting Naruto in his place, too? And then continue the Uchiha bloodline with Sakura? Make it happen, Kishimoto.

[rockmanj]

Then that would mean it would also mean that technically he has the oldest eye techniques and the least useful one. Come to think of it I never saw pein do anything other than show us that he doesn't need any wifi security cameras in his house. And even weak ass Naruto found a way around that.

Wasn't it also said that he could use any ninja technique that he wanted a few arcs back? We never saw that and Naruto killed him. So he's dead without having to see anything epic copied or tried out. Now to me that is the biggest kishi plot hole as of date.


That doesn't necessarily mean that his techniques are the weakest because they are the oldest? What makes you think that? Its just that the other eye techniques are different, and probably only as useful as the person who possess them. And what do you mean you never saw Pain do anything? He murdered Jiraiya, using ridiculous summons, jutsus and all kinds of other shit. Plus he can reanimate and control multiple bodies at once. Also, do you not remember when Yahiko died...he just pulled all those random techniques out of thin air? Apparently not...

[Pastor Cookies]

I agree with Stitch. Were finally getting somewhere with the fighting. Sasuke has proved that he hasn't completely lost his marbles. He seemed to be taking advantage of the situation when attacking C, hes attacking the Raikage from different angles implimenting different techniques as he goes along. I know that Sasuke isn't really the best thing on the street here at Gotwoot but when it comes to fighting he always entertains me with some good shit everytime.

He seemd to injure his eye when using a regular genjustu attack? I understand the Mangekyou techniques having a strain on his eyes but regular eye techniques as well...thats crazy!! I don't see Sasuke totally owning the Raikage either. I mean this guy is covered in Super Saiyan goodness, moves faster than Sasuke, and has the strength of 20 hulk hogans...what else do you need. Can anybody explain why Sasukes genjustu attempt did not work against the Raikage. I know hes fast but all you gotta do is look at the person for genjustu to work.

At the rate Sasukes using his Mangekyou Sharingan he'll be blind by the end of the series.

[The Chancellor]

At the rate Sasukes using his Mangekyou Sharingan he'll be blind by the end of the series. Waaaaaay before then dude. We already saw this happening twice. He went blurry after the fight with the 8 tails and couldn't even pick up a cup of water. And, he's only like 19. I'd say in a few chapters, he'll be losing at least one eye in no time.

On that note. I actually think the perfect balance use of his sharingan is Kakashi. Actually, I think he's the most balanced ninja Konoha has to offer. His style is perfect. And he doesn't use his eye much either.

[rockmanj]

Waaaaaay before then dude. We already saw this happening twice. He went blurry after the fight with the 8 tails and couldn't even pick up a cup of water. And, he's only like 19. I'd say in a few chapters, he'll be losing at least one eye in no time.

On that note. I actually think the perfect balance use of his sharingan is Kakashi. Actually, I think he's the most balanced ninja Konoha has to offer. His style is perfect. And he doesn't use his eye much either.


I don't think Sasuke is even 17 yet; and if he is, barely so.

[The Chancellor]

and if he is Well I was just saying that
A. It's about time that he begin losing his site with the way he's been using it and
B. someone needs to take that kid down a few pegs and I'm glad it's kage that's doing it.

I hope that the raikage is Kishis answer to us bitching about him being too strong and growing his strength too fast.

[Pastor Cookies]

I hope that the raikage is Kishis answer to us bitching about him being too strong and growing his strength too fast.[/QUOTE

The answer will be Naruto and no one else but Naruto. Don't get me wrong the Raikage is the real deal but hes just another opponent that is going to push Sasuke to a higher point of "HOLY SHIT" Sasuke pulled another one outta his ass moments"

I mean both Naruto and Sasuke are compared to two of the strongest ninjas in the series, the 4th and Itachi...(in my opinion of course) If they are gonna stand any chance against Madara kishis gonna continue to power them up to the highest point possible.

On a different note I still don't see how Sasukes eyes are more developed than Itachi's.

[The Chancellor]

I mean both Naruto and Sasuke are compared to two of the strongest ninjas in the series, the 4th and Itachi...(in my opinion of course) If they are gonna stand any chance against Madara kishis gonna continue to power them up to the highest point possible.

I'm glad you said that it's your opinion. Itachi had his sharingan on almost all of the time which was a constant drain of chakra on him and yet still didn't phase him much. He mastered, mastered his eyes at 10. So I don't think it would be fair to compare little brother to big brother. As for naruto and his dad, I don't think that it's fair to compare those two either, ever. I personally don't see naruto ever surpassing his dad. Just because Kakashi said that he see's it happening, don't hold your breath. You're talking about a kid who grew up really fast and learned a lot of techniques from jiraiya and his papa, and is decently strong, but no where near his dad. Back when he was alive there were flee on site orders given to ninjas when the 4th showed up to join the fight. Granted we don't know how strong he really is, we still never will if kishi doesn't have flashback fights, but still I don't see Naruto causing the same panic and fear anytime soon to be honest.

[Stitch]

Back when he was alive there were flee on site orders given to ninjas when the 4th showed up to join the fight.

Damn, you know you're a beast when you have to chase fools to beat 'em up 'cuz they trynna run away for dear life.

[rockmanj]

I'm glad you said that it's your opinion. Itachi had his sharingan on almost all of the time which was a constant drain of chakra on him and yet still didn't phase him much. He mastered, mastered his eyes at 10. So I don't think it would be fair to compare little brother to big brother. As for naruto and his dad, I don't think that it's fair to compare those two either, ever. I personally don't see naruto ever surpassing his dad. Just because Kakashi said that he see's it happening, don't hold your breath. You're talking about a kid who grew up really fast and learned a lot of techniques from jiraiya and his papa, and is decently strong, but no where near his dad. Back when he was alive there were flee on site orders given to ninjas when the 4th showed up to join the fight. Granted we don't know how strong he really is, we still never will if kishi doesn't have flashback fights, but still I don't see Naruto causing the same panic and fear anytime soon to be honest.


Yea, but Naruto might have larger potential than his father. Sasuke isn't looking too hot these days, and he hasn't even had MS for that long. I mean, how many times has he used it? Three or so and he's bleeding? Itachi was much more special than it seems Sasuke will be, plus he was much smarter than Sasuke.

Naruto seems to be steadily improving, and besides the Kyuubi transformations uses techniques that are relatively harmless to his body. I want Raikage to scrape the floor with Sasuke (as he should, for various reasons) but I think Kishi is gonna have Sasuke win in some ridiculous and weird way.


BTW: You wouldn't run if you saw an army of frog-eyed Narutos storming your village?

[Uchiha Barles]

I'm glad you said that it's your opinion. Itachi had his sharingan on almost all of the time which was a constant drain of chakra on him and yet still didn't phase him much. He mastered, mastered his eyes at 10. So I don't think it would be fair to compare little brother to big brother. As for naruto and his dad, I don't think that it's fair to compare those two either, ever. I personally don't see naruto ever surpassing his dad. Just because Kakashi said that he see's it happening, don't hold your breath. You're talking about a kid who grew up really fast and learned a lot of techniques from jiraiya and his papa, and is decently strong, but no where near his dad. Back when he was alive there were flee on site orders given to ninjas when the 4th showed up to join the fight. Granted we don't know how strong he really is, we still never will if kishi doesn't have flashback fights, but still I don't see Naruto causing the same panic and fear anytime soon to be honest.

The comparison between Sasuke and Itachi and Naruto and the Fourth are just fine. Sasuke making a protective cloak out of Amaterasu is something that apparently Itachi was never able to accomplish. Or never tried. Either way, that's an accomplishment and display of ability that Sasuke has shown, but that Itachi has not. It's the same concept when we compare Naruto's wind Rasengan to what the fourth was able to accomplish in his lifetime.

If it's overall strength you're looking to compare, then that's doable too. Sasuke mastered his sharingan when he was 12, just two years after Itachi. Besides those two, we really don't know what the "normal" age for mastering the sharingan is, or how long it takes or whatever, so the age at which they mastered the ability doesn't serve well for a strength comparison. What we do know, is that they have similar skills in taijutsu, similar speed, and they're both pretty crafty.The had their little genjutsu match, they had their little taijutsu match, and then the techniques came in, and we now know Itachi could've taken Sasuke out with those techniques if it was his goal to (based on Madara's speech anyway).At the time they fought, Itachi trumped Sasuke in techniques he had available. For the most part, that's it.

The comparison between Naruto and the fourth is a more difficult one. We know few of the techniques the fouth had: The death god seal, the frog summons, the rasengan, and the body flicker. We don't know much about the characteristic fighting attributes of the fourth. Was he above all else, fast, or maybe clever, or maybe stealthy, etc. Naruto on the other hand, we have a good understanding of. We know his primary attributes are his cleverness and his ability to output massive amounts of chakra, which determines to a large extent which jutsu are best for him. We know he has kage bunshin, the rasengan, the wind rasengan, the frog summons, and sage mode, not to mention the kyubi. Too little is know about the fourth to make an overall strength comparison here. The fourth being a ninja to which a "run away on sight" order had been issued doesn't serve the purpose. We don't know what criteria they used to determine that the fourth was just that unbeatable, and thus we can't properly evaluate Naruto in that sense to see if they'd issue the same order.

[The Chancellor]

BTW: You wouldn't run if you saw an army of frog-eyed Narutos storming your village? It's not storming when it's little punk in an orange jump suit dude lol. That's a neo nazi fuck up who was given the tools to do well by older generation hax. None of those moves are even original. That's what makes this series get watered down. Yeah it's his dads move (family heirloom blah blah the fuck blah) but it's not his own. And when is it going to be done? We don't even know if it's complete yet. There's no verification at all from anyone.

I still don't understand how you guys think all of these people are strong lol. It boggles my mind how you guys think Sasuke and Naruto's generation are that strong when they haven't even fought anyone experienced yet. Pain was a push over with a ton of summons and networked eyes? What the fuck was that? Come on.

[poopdeville]

That "push over" killed Jiraiya, because of his P2P eyes, summons, and his ridiculously overpowered jutsu.

Pein was weakened by destroying Konoha. On the other hand, Pein knew what his mission was, so he shouldn't have wasted chakra. It was a stupid move on Pein's part. So I don't mean that as a fault for Naruto's fight. But I don't think Pein would have had a problem killing Naruto if he had all his chakra and wasn't trying to capture him. The only real response Naruto has to Pein's magnetic explosion jutsu is the Kyuubi's protective cloak, which he has to be wearing to provide any protection.


We know few of the techniques the fouth had: The death god seal, the frog summons, the rasengan, and the body flicker. We don't know much about the characteristic fighting attributes of the fourth. Was he above all else, fast, or maybe clever, or maybe stealthy, etc.

He was apparently a Sage Mode user. The old Toad compared Naruto to Jiriaya and the Fourth, and basically thinks Naruto is better at taijutsu, at least.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/20/

[Splash!]

I still don't understand how you guys think all of these people are strong lol. It boggles my mind how you guys think Sasuke and Naruto's generation are that strong when they haven't even fought anyone experienced yet. Pain was a push over with a ton of summons and networked eyes? What the fuck was that? Come on.

Sasuke vs Orochimaru,
Sasuke vs Deidara,
Sasuke vs Itachi,
Sakura vs Sasori,
Shikamaru vs Hidan,
Naruto vs Kakuzu,
Naruto vs Pain (He was no pushover, he was the leader of Akatsuki and the strongest ninja we have seen thus far, besides Madara)

I dont quite know what 'experienced' ninjas you are waiting for to show up. The only one in the series who is more experienced than those in the list above is Madara himself.

[Pastor Cookies]

@Rockmanj: Sasuke isn't looking too hot these days, and he hasn't even had MS for that long. I mean, how many times has he used it? Three or so and he's bleeding? Itachi was much more special than it seems Sasuke will be, plus he was much smarter than Sasuke.

Sasuke may be getting scattered, smottered, and chunked by his opponents Rockmanj but with everyfight he is getting stronger and gaining more experience. Your right though! Sasuke hasn't had the MS longer than Itachi but its just as Uchiha Barnes stated...Sasuke has just obtained the MS not to long ago and he has already modified Amasterstu into something that Itachi would have never even dreamed of...and this my friend is what gives Sasuke the edge over Itachi and why he will eventually surpass him. His creativity and his ability to excel at an extremely fast rate. The stronger the opponent the more he is pushed to excel and evolve...kinda like Goku.

@ Splash: Nice! I agree. The next generation of Konoha ninjas have been fighting the best of the best lately. The Akastuki are well seasoned warriors for hired who are well known and feared throughout the Naruto universe. These guys have killed kages, taken over small countries, tamed tailed beast, and some have been alive for a very long time. You can't get anymore experienced then that!

[The Chancellor]

Sasuke vs Itachi,
Naruto vs Kakuzu,
Naruto vs Pain (He was no pushover, he was the leader of Akatsuki and the strongest ninja we have seen thus far, besides Madara)
Those are the only fights worth mentioning really. Itachi was a beast who (I don't care what anyone says, two years after your brother mastered the sharingan is too long when you're that close) Kakuzu fought the damn first and lived and although I still don't think Pain is that strong. To me, all he had was a lot of summons who smashed things.

[XanBcoo]

I still don't think Pain is that strong. To me, all he had was a lot of summons who smashed things.
I still don't think Itachi was all that strong. To me, all he had was a magic eye and throat-crows.

Seriously though, I was really disappointed with the Itachi/Sasuke fight. Neither of them really fought, it was just a matter of trumping the others' ultimate jutsu. It's kind of hard to tell how strong Itachi really was, but the fact remains that Sasuke has apparently taken all of his best attributes and improved upon them.

[The Chancellor]

Seriously though, I was really disappointed with the Itachi/Sasuke fight. Neither of them really fought, it was just a matter of trumping the others' ultimate jutsu. It's kind of hard to tell how strong Itachi really was, but the fact remains that Sasuke has apparently taken all of his best attributes and improved upon them. Me too! Finally someone agrees with me. Don't get me wrong I love both sasuke and naruto, great powerful kids with a good portfolio of moves who have shown they can take on anyone. My main beef is that sasuke was manipulated and kidnapped to to get stronger and naruto was handpicked to get stronger. Both by great ninjas, but the circumstances were different. Sure it ended being the same results in comparison to each other, but that doesn't mean that it was even in terms of story. Naruto's was built on honor and wanting to be stronger for the village as a whole which Jiraiya saw and was like when he was younger. Sasuke was wanting to get stronger for revenge and (some how I still haven't figured out how) Orochimaru was the same right before he left the village, so he and Sasuke were the same, somehow. So my main complaint between the two was it wasn't fair that for Naruto he wanted to get stronger and Jiraiya was begged by Kakashi to train him. While Sasuke was pulled in all lucky VIP by a sannin personally and trained in secrecy by him.

It's just unfair that Sasuke seemingly got the better end of the deal. And on top of that he had the Sharingan and was given given a portfolio of moves by his older brother. And protected against Madara with the most powerful security features by his older brother as well. That's way too much in comparison to naruto, which was given (yes ok since I'll be bitched at for thinking that the rasengan isn't strong, it is, there happy?) by Jiraiya and taught him by hand, he didn't get much else at all. He doesn't even know how to be friends with Kyuubi. Now, I don't know when the eight tails became friends with his, but at this rate Naruto will never be friends with him which means soon, he'll cap his power. We now know that there are only a few ways that the elite can manage to break free from the sharingan. A host controlling his demon is one of them. And we also know that naruto needs to be able to do that before him and Sasuke take each other on.

All in all, I just think Kishi gave sasuke the easy way out with the eyes, his brothers moves and Orochimaru's training. Triple play going on there is a bit much if you ask me.

And on a side note (since this has become so popular lately) how the hell did naruto get so smart? I mean he was straight up dense before Jiraoya met him. And I'm sorry but unless that exponential training jutsu kakashi taught him was used in a library for like 3 days straight then I refuse to admit how the hell he got so smart both in terms of common small talk and fighting tact.

[Uchiha Barles]

I've been saying this for a long time now, Naruto was never dense in a fighting sense. Naruto has always shown tactical intelligence in his fights, with the possible exception of two of them: the ones against kabuto and kimimaro. Those happen to be the two Naruto fights I had problems with as they were inconsistant with every other non filler fight he's had, including the ones in shippuuden. What Naruto did against Pain was a refinement of everything he's ever done. They were completely in line with what came before. What he did against Kakuzu was new though. There was an analysis on the number of clones he'd need to pull off an attack. The trick he used on the second go around though was in line with the things he'd done before. The things he showed to be natural attributes.

As far as Naruto getting the short end of the stick on power-ups, I'm not convinced. Sagehax is awesome, I'd take that over sharinganigans anyday. I'd take the 9-tails over sharinganigans also, considering the potential Naruto has yet to realize with the 9 tails. That he hasn't realized them yet isn't a big deal. He's about to run into the 8 tails, I'm sure they'll talk.

[Tyreal]

He's about to run into the 8 tails, I'm sure they'll talk.

I've been expecting this as well. He would be the perfect person to teach Naruto about controlling his Bijuu, considering Naruto is now already incredibly powerful and more or less capable of developing his other abilities by himself.

[Pastor Cookies]

I thought I was the only one who thought that the Sasuke itachi fight could have been a lot better then it played out to be. What got me the most was itachi's random heart disease. No where in the entire series did itachi show traits of being sick and then all of a sudden hes pucking blood...what!

I'm excited thinking about how much stronger Naruto will become when he gets the key to unlock more of his Kyuubi chakra and possibly trained by the 8 tails. I'm also curious to see what type of power itachi gave him...but we won't be seeing that until him and Sasuke fight.

[darkshadow]

I actually don't think it was a random "heart" disease, like madara was implying. Like Zetsu said, it seemed he sustained some damage before the fight. I actually believe he's fought Madara on several occassions.
I mean he even put a trap in his little brother to destroy Madara, think it is pretty obvious they were out for each others blood for a long time.

[Pastor Cookies]

I'm pretty sure there was a purpose behind it as well and that could very well be what happened. I was thinking that Itachi having to kill everyone he loved in the village,mom dad, best friend etc. The cold hearted Itachi was a front to me. He actually seemed like he was a very commpassionate person at one point. Killing all those people could have had a tremendous strain on him emotional thus effecting his heart some how.