Bleach 234

[Marik]

[/URL][URL="http://www.dattebayo.com/t/b234.torrent"][DB]​ Bleach​ 234​ [CC4037E0].avi (http://www.dattebayo.com/t/b234.torrent)

[Nadouku]

Muramasa keeps ragging on about "instincts" but it seems more like a manipulation. His skills are pretty limited, ranging from pulling out the Soul Slayers to creating some kind of illusionary world. Then again, we have yet to see him get serious in a battle, but maybe this upcoming one will light some mystery about him. Good to see Hollow Ichigo back and ready to kick some ass!

[Vorlath]

These just get better and better. I'm wondering about that flash of Zangetsu. They made it look like it was Muramasa, but maybe there's more to it. In any case, I want to see more and that makes it kick-ass episode. Hollow ichigo is gonna be cool to see.

[David75]

Muramasa keeps ragging on about "instincts" but it seems more like a manipulation. His skills are pretty limited, ranging from pulling out the Soul Slayers to creating some kind of illusionary world. Then again, we have yet to see him get serious in a battle, but maybe this upcoming one will light some mystery about him. Good to see Hollow Ichigo back and ready to kick some ass!

That inner world was Ichigo's, we've seen it everytime Ichigo deals directly with Zangetsu.
Ichigo himself refferred to it as the inside of his soul

[Nadouku]

I wasn't referring to Ichigo's world as the "illusionary world". Remember last episode when Ichigo was flipped upside down and he started saying "I can't move!"? Everything outside of Ichigo was normal while through Ichigo's vision it was like an illusion... then Muramasa proceeded to extract Zangetsu out.

Possibly the biggest shock for me would be Zabimaru. I mean, I seriously thought Zabimaru was a guy. Anything other than a husky woman with a child-like figure as her partner.

[DarthEnderX]

Oh man, I missed Hichigo so much. I'm so glad he's getting facetime in this arc.

[Kraco]

Muramasa must have a deathwish when he attempts to set free the inner instincts of a hollow in front of him...

[Penner]

Hollow Ichigo needs more screentime!

The furry Zabimaru lady is kinda hawt, but the manvoice kills it.
As long as she keeps quiet, it's all good ^^

[Harima Kenji]

Nice to see that Renji didn't recognise Zabimaru at first. This just shows that they are human forms, not the 'real' ones. With the known exception of Zangetsu, offcourse.

Maybe someone else already adressed this, but then I've overlooked it:
It could be a plothole, or something else is going on. The thing is, Ichigo's Zanpakutou is still in his shikai form. If Zangetsu would be removed from it, shouldn't it go back to his normal form?

[Nadouku]

I think because Hollow Ichigo is in control that his Shikai still remains now that Zangetsu is out of Ichigo's body. You can see that Hollow Ichigo has Ichigo's sword in Shikai form, too.

My guess would be that now that Zangetsu is out of Ichigo's body (the one that trained him to Bankai), he might have lost his ability to go Bankai until he gets the old man back. I don't know about going Bankai with his Hollow self, but it could be possible.

[Kraco]

Ichigo's vaizard mode is more powerful than his bankai anyway, so it's not like he would be without means even after losing old man Zangetsu. But it's somewhat likely he has lost bankai for now since the captains and vice-captains can't use even shikai anymore.

What comes to Ichigo still displaying the shikai form, I suppose it could be that his shikai is more permanent than some give him credit for. An unreleased form might simply not exist for his sword anymore. At all. So, the blade can't revert anymore to anything.

I still think it'll be an immense pity if they don't bring Kenpachi back. But if they bring him back when it's all over for some lame joke, I'll hate the whole arc.

[Marik]

Damn, it ended just when it was getting good.

Hollow Ichigo is badass. I liked the way he made his intro with "Yo, You Rang?"


The furry Zabimaru lady is kinda hawt, but the manvoice kills it.
As long as she keeps quiet, it's all good ^^
The scene where she first appeared was funny, with Renji not knowing who she was. I loved how they did his reaction with the lean to the side and the question mark.

Not only does the voice kill it, but she's also chained to a kid that's picking boogers.

The stuff after the preview, was one of the funniest they've done in a while. I feel bad for Ishida and Ichigo.

[DarthEnderX]

Oh yeah, Muramasa more or less put to rest the theory that he's Kenpachi's zanpaktou when he said he killed his shinigami.


Ichigo's vaizard mode is more powerful than his bankai anywayDo we know that though? I can't recall a single instance in the series where Ichigo went into Vizard mode without first being in Bankai mode.

Without Bankai, Vizard mode might not be as big a power boost.


I'd love to see Hichigo with a white bankai blade.

[Harima Kenji]

Without Bankai, Vizard mode might not be as big a power boost.


I remember Shinji kicking Grimmjow's ass without even using shikai.. I think Ichigo is not fully in sync yet with Hichigo.

[UChessmaster]

Do we know that though? I can't recall a single instance in the series where Ichigo went into Vizard mode without first being in Bankai mode.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/218/16/

Does this counts?

[Archangel]

This works better: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/225/06/

Anyway, i feel like the arc is getting slower so i hope they're not stretching it out because of string fan response or some shit like that

And after watching the ending with extra attention i found some captains and vice-captains swords missing, so if that is left unexplained the arc loses some major points

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, that works.



I imagine some of them just don't matter. I mean, does anyone really care what the Leutenant of the medical squads zanpatou looks like? I don't.

[Archangel]

Yeah, that works.



I imagine some of them just don't matter. I mean, does anyone really care what the Leutenant of the medical squads zanpatou looks like? I don't.

I do, for consistency's sake

[Logrus]

I just noticed something i would like to discuss since it seems quite logical:)

Hichigo said he and Zangestsu were orginally one? and Hichigo always uses that reverse shikai of zangetsu. Does that mean boht Zangetsu and Hichigo have/are 2 diffrent swords?
That would also explain why ichigo retains his shikai and Hichog shows up with one no?

Hichigo also uses Getsuga tenshou in his fight vs Zangetsu. And he claims to be zangetsu as he surpassed him in power.

So my question is is it possible that Ichigo can learn new moves from Hichgo or even draw out that reverse Shikai form or even learn a new Bankai by materialzing Hichgo and beating him into submisson?


Maybe im overeading this or smth but would like to hear your opinion.

[Nadouku]

I don't think Hollow Ichigo has any "new" moves he can teach Ichigo, and even if he does, he wouldn't teach him anyways. Hollow Ichigo basically has the same moveset as Ichigo, except more powerful.

[Kraco]

Hichigo's power probably is only due to the fact he isn't as naive and hesitant a fool as Ichigo. We have learned a long time ago that a zanpakutou only cuts when the hand that wields it wants to cut. Ichigo, being a far too typical shounen hero, almost never wants to cut anybody and thus he rarely can. If he had a healthy attitude like Kenpachi, he would kick ass in shikai already and major ass in bankai. Vaizard mode would make him unstoppable.

But alas this is no Kaze no Stigma so we have no chances of Ichigo ever gaining an attitude suitable for a man carrying a sword.

[Xyrox]

I don't think Hollow Ichigo has any "new" moves he can teach Ichigo, and even if he does, he wouldn't teach him anyways. Hollow Ichigo basically has the same moveset as Ichigo, except more powerful.

Wasn't it Hichigo who "taught" Ichigo the black version of Getsuga Tenshou by doing it when Ichigo lost control of his body (vs Byakuya if I remember correctly)?

I really doubt we will see Kenpachi in this arc, since we don't know anything about his Zanpakutou (except that it's one of the more likely to revolt on its own, if it was possible). Although it would be hilarious if Muramasa tried to "free" the Zanpakutou (like he did to Ichigo) and Kenpachi just go "What the hell?" and slice him up.

[Nadouku]

Wasn't it Hichigo who "taught" Ichigo the black version of Getsuga Tenshou by doing it when Ichigo lost control of his body (vs Byakuya if I remember correctly)?

I'm pretty sure if Ichigo knows how to use the regular Getsuga Tensho, then he would naturally know how to use the black Getsuga Tensho in Bankai. Hollow Ichigo uses it because he is a better user than Ichigo will ever be and what a sight, too. He even rubs it in his face and says "you just imitate what I do, like the black Getsuga Tensho". Too bad Ichigo refuses to let him "help" out.

[Logrus]

You are so not getting what i thinking but never mind that just smth to keep in mind.

And i really think that will play an important part later.

[Nadouku]

Do explain to us on what "we're not getting". It's kind of hard to know what you're thinking.

[David75]

I really doubt we will see Kenpachi in this arc, since we don't know anything about his Zanpakutou (except that it's one of the more likely to revolt on its own, if it was possible). Although it would be hilarious if Muramasa tried to "free" the Zanpakutou (like he did to Ichigo) and Kenpachi just go "What the hell?" and slice him up.

I do not see Muramasa being able to extract Kenpachi's zanpaktou soul.
These fillers may explain why.
Kenpachi has an over the top reiatsu. He doesn't even need a Shikai to fight.
My guess is that he doesn't have a zanpaktou soul, there's no room for it. You could
say that his own soul acts as a zanpaktou. His high level or reiatsu being enough to protect his blade for the massive attacks and defenses when he fights.

If he does possess one, then Muramasa is screwed because there's no way he has enough reiatsu to overcome Kenpaichi's reiatsu and perform the extraction.

[DarthEnderX]

Hichigo definitely has moves that Ichigo doesn't.

I specifically remember one time when the two of them fought, Hichigo started holding his Zangetsu by it's wrapping and swinging it around like a flail, and Ichigo went, "I didn't know you could wield Zangetsu by its wrap."



Hichigo said he and Zangestsu were orginally one? and Hichigo always uses that reverse shikai of zangetsu. Does that mean boht Zangetsu and Hichigo have/are 2 diffrent swords?I agree with this because it fits into my theory of Arrancar blades being different from Shinigami Zanpaktou, and Ichigo could actually have both. I think the reverse blade that Hichigo uses is what Ichigo would have if he ever became an Arrancar.

[Kraco]

Hichigo started holding his Zangetsu by it's wrapping and swinging it around like a flail, and Ichigo went, "I didn't know you could wield Zangetsu by its wrap."


How does that prove anything but that Ichigo has the wits of a rubber boot?

Arrancar blades as such seem to hold no special abilities whatsoever, so possessing one wouldn't be such a cool thing in the end for a shinigami. The significance would only be to fuse with the blade and gain the true hollow form with all the new attributes it brings with it.

[Logrus]

I agree with this because it fits into my theory of Arrancar blades being different from Shinigami Zanpaktou, and Ichigo could actually have both. I think the reverse blade that Hichigo uses is what Ichigo would have if he ever became an Arrancar.[/QUOTE]

You seem to get where im going my idea.


(No idea how to fiddle the gadgets)

*Spoiler*
No manga spoilers whatsoever allowed in the anime section of the forums. Read the rules.

Please tell me what you think of that :)

[Vorlath]

From what I understand, Aizen was experimenting with holloification. Also from the show, the Zampaktou is a manifestation of the owner's soul. So a Vizard is one where the evil potential has entered a person and the evil Zampaktou essentially overpowered or ejected the good Zampaktou.

With Ichigo, his soul chain was severed and he had to fight against the evil potential of his soul which was then incarnated through Hichigo. Neither side was able to eject the other, so Ichigo has to maintain control.

So am I to understand that the good Zampaktou of Vizards no longer exist. That Aizen was able to eradicate them in order to induce the Holloification process?

Oh, and do Zampaktou have their own soul chain even though they are manifestations of their owners?

Are ressurection similar to Bankai? If so, does this mean that Ichigo has an evil version of his Bankai up his sleeve that he hasn't used yet?

From what I've seen of the show, Arrancar seem to be the opposites of Shinigami. Ichigo should theoretically have the ability to go resurrection AND Bankai at the exact same time.

[Kraco]

I think you have acquired a mistaken conception somewhere along the way. Hollows as such aren't evil nor do they represent evilness. They are more like instincts and regret. It was even said directly in the beginning that a hollow is the soul of somebody who couldn't let go of the mortal world but was stuck there for whatever (personal) reason. However, they begin to lose their mind and thus eventually turn to evil deeds guided by their instincts. It seems to me arrancars are beings that have finally returned to their senses.

Unless you belong to some philosophical school believing all instincts are evil.

[Archangel]

I think you have acquired a mistaken conception somewhere along the way. Hollows as such aren't evil nor do they represent evilness. They are more like instincts and regret. It was even said directly in the beginning that a hollow is the soul of somebody who couldn't let go of the mortal world but was stuck there for whatever (personal) reason. However, they begin to lose their mind and thus eventually turn to evil deeds guided by their instincts. It seems to me arrancars are beings that have finally returned to their senses.

Unless you belong to some philosophical school believing all instincts are evil.

I would say that arrancar are indeed evil, seeing as they do possess intelect

[Kraco]

Nel is also an arrancar and so far not an overly evil one. I think their evilness may be due to a number of factors: They lost their minds once and got accustomed to a moralless status, they were cannibals (in order to reach the menos status), they serve under Aizen, they are in constant struggle to maintain their relative positions...

Of course it goes without saying there's always something wrong with every hollow, arrancar or otherwise, or they wouldn't be hollows in the first place. And normally it's certainly nothing good.

I mainly objected to calling shinigami zanpakutou good and arrancar blades evil. Both are weapons, after all, and the primary function of a weapon is to kill, no matter if it's good or evil. Unless you say an evil weapon would be one that hurts the owner as much as the target.

[Archangel]

Nel is also an arrancar and so far not an overly evil one. I think their evilness may be due to a number of factors: They lost their minds once and got accustomed to a moralless status, they were cannibals (in order to reach the menos status), they serve under Aizen, they are in constant struggle to maintain their relative positions...

Of course it goes without saying there's always something wrong with every hollow, arrancar or otherwise, or they wouldn't be hollows in the first place. And normally it's certainly nothing good.

Yes, this explanation suits me just fine