Bleach 233

[Kusanagi]

http://www.dattebayo.com/t/b233.torrent

Enjoyable episode, I was reminded of Kimimaro.

[DarthEnderX]

So fucking awesome to see Ichigo in full Hollow form again.

Just for a second there, when he was tearing off his mask, I thought instead of changing back he might become an Arrancar. That would have been sooooo awesome.

Love this arc so much. Even though the animation was kinda shitty this episode.

[Vorlath]

Badass episode. I'm having a hard time believing this is filler. It's better than the real thing. Zangetsu vs. Hollow Ichigo!!! How do you top that? The stunned looked on the other guy was great.

[Nadouku]

That was such a tease, in a good way. Full-Hollow Ichigo makes another appearance to kick the shit out of Zangetsu, then disappears, and even the way that Muramasa pulls Zangetsu out was the same way Zangetsu taught Ichigo how to fight against Urahara and subsequently levelled him to Shikai. It's like some sort of manipulation on these Soul Slayers since Sode no Shiraiyuki came back to her senses after Rukia counsels with her.

[depthcharge]

Previously, Muramasa said that zanpakutou that supports his plan of ruling over shinigami would show themselves, or was it allow themselves to be taken apart from the shinigami body vessel?

Zangetsu did not seem like one who would be interested in ruling over shinigami, but joins Muramasa anyway.

If it had been hollow Ichigo that Muramasa tried to remove, he might be more then glad. Then again, Hollow Ichigo is not gonna join anyone, just want pure chaos and fight.

With Ichigo, they would try to pull this hollow form, I wonder if they would do it for any other characters outside of the vaizard group. Its like a 3 way FFA battle.

Aizen and company will have to take a break from being the villains.

PS: Healer Captain being prodded by Kurotsuki taicho....I consider it fan service for fellow fetish lovers.

[Penner]

Shit, that was pretty damn awesome.

[Kraco]

The parts with Hichigo were jolly good indeed, but the rest was quite idiotic to be frank. Ichigo was made even stupider than he usually is in the beginning, getting amazed by Muramasa's words even though he knew it all already from Rukia's account. And the bloody everlasting protesting against his enemy's actions - if the villain wasn't doing nasty deeds, he wouldn't be an enemy in the first place so what the fuck does give Ichigo the idea that if he asks nicely, the dude will stop? He should stick to asking with his sword like Kenpachi...

And even better was how Ichigo happily allowed Hichigo to beat old man Zangetsu but right when it would have been this new villain's turn... What happens? Ichigo stops his only available weapon (because he's useless as usual himself) and decides it's the perfect time to have a nap at the feet of his enemy. No wonder Muramasa was amazed.


Zangetsu did not seem like one who would be interested in ruling over shinigami, but joins Muramasa anyway.

Haha. If I was trapped inside someone as moronic as Ichigo, I surely would like to get out. In all seriousness, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Zangetsu just decided to grab the chance to teach Ichigo another lesson and to spy a little on Muramasa and try to find out his secrets. But in any case I find it hardly to believe all the zanpakutou (except the old geezer's) would hate their partners so much that they would openly rebel given the first chance. I sense some hidden power in the plot.

[redcat]

I was expecting him to wear his mask as a backup, but didn't expect the loss of control or full transformation. I guess the trauma of having your zanpakutou ripped from your soul can have that effect. it was great to see him fight, like how he grabbed onto zangetsu's face and threw him back into a wall, I never get tired of his fighting style. at one point I thought to myself "this ownage is going to stop suddenly and for some really dumb reason any second now." and sure enough immediately after that thought he rips off the mask and takes a nap.

[Archangel]

Just for a second there, when he was tearing off his mask, I thought instead of changing back he might become an Arrancar. That would have been sooooo awesome.

You're always coming back to that, and i never understand why

- Shinigami who venture and obtain power from hollows are called vaizard

- Hollows who seek to imitate the shinigami and remove their masks are called arrancar

Ichigo is undoubtedly the first case, he's not a hollow so why do you keep expecting him to tear off the mask it took him so long to put on in the first place?

Could it be that you're considering Ichigo and Hichigo as 2 separate entities and expect the hollow to become an arrancar just like the shinigami became a vaizard?


Anyway, as for the episode i found it strange how the animation kept bouncing back and forth between awesome and disappointing

And ffs Ichigo, how about giving your little "hands off by body" speech after the enemy is defeated? It's like a 5 year old getting mad because the other kid won't let him play too.

[DarthEnderX]

At this point, this episode made if fairly clear to me that Muramasa is not "freeing" the Zanpaktou. At least, not the way he thinks. It's quite obvious that he is controlling them somehow. Even if they all wanted to be free, I don't believe they would all hate and attack their forming Shinigami like they are doing. It's clear that hate comes from Muramasa and he's somehow infecting the other Zanpaktou with it.


The parts with Hichigo were jolly good indeed, but the rest was quite idiotic to be frank. Ichigo was made even stupider than he usually is in the beginning, getting amazed by Muramasa's words even though he knew it all already from Rukia's account. And the bloody everlasting protesting against his enemy's actions - if the villain wasn't doing nasty deeds, he wouldn't be an enemy in the first place so what the fuck does give Ichigo the idea that if he asks nicely, the dude will stop? He should stick to asking with his sword like Kenpachi...Actually, if anything, this makes a lot of sense because Rukia has already showed us that the best way of defeating these zanpaktou is reasoning with thing.


You're always coming back to that, and i never understand why

- Shinigami who venture and obtain power from hollows are called vaizard

- Hollows who seek to imitate the shinigami and remove their masks are called arrancar

Ichigo is undoubtedly the first case, he's not a hollow so why do you keep expecting him to tear off the mask it took him so long to put on in the first place?

Could it be that you're considering Ichigo and Hichigo as 2 separate entities and expect the hollow to become an arrancar just like the shinigami became a vaizard?I think of it as two separate progressions of power.

A shinigami gains his zanpaktou. Learns his shikai. Then learns his Bankai.

A hollow becomes a Menos by merging with many other hollows, then gradually becomes more powerful Menos by having one personality emerge from the rest.

At any point in this process, a hollow can become more powerful by becoming an Arrancar. By tearing off part of his mask and forming a blade with it.

For me, I always considered a Vizard as a Shinigami who has also gained the powers of a normal Hollow. They're much more powerful than normal hollows because the combination of both types of powers makes them more powerful.

But I believe that a Vizard can still increase his powers in all the way a Hollow can increase his powers. That he could become a sort of Vizard menos by consuming other hollows, or that he can tear off part of his mask, and either form a second blade with it, or combine it with his zanpaktou in some way to increase it's power.


As is made very clear from this arc, a Shinigami's zanpaktou is a separate spirit. So far, this has not been shown to be the case for Arrancar. Their blades are simply parts of themselves.

Therefore, I think that Ichigo, not having his Zanpaktou anymore, can obtain a new sword the same way that Hollows obtain their swords, by becoming an Arrancar.

[November 11]

In short,

Current Vaizard = Shinigami (zanpaktou) + Normal Hollow

Next level is

Dual wielding Vaizard = Shinigami (zanpaktou) + Arrancar (Hollow Blade)

[Xyrox]

Hm. Nobody else who found it strange that Ichigo's zanpaktou remained in Shikai form when Zangetsu was "freed"? Also, Hichigo used Getsuga Tenshou (the black variant), didn't he? I thought it was an ability of Zangetsu. Oh well, it is a filler after all...

Overall it was a nice episode, didn't expect to see a full hollow transformation. Also loved Zangetsu's explanation in the preview.

[DarthEnderX]

I actually did notice that about the Shikai. If he doesn't have access to Zangetsu's power anymore, his Katana should have dropped all the way back down to the way it was in the beginning of the series.
In short,

Current Vaizard = Shinigami (zanpaktou) + Normal Hollow

Next level is

Dual wielding Vaizard = Shinigami (zanpaktou) + Arrancar (Hollow Blade)Yep, that's my theory. Either that, or the Zanpaktou and the Hollow sword are merged into a single new weapon.

[Archangel]

In short,

Current Vaizard = Shinigami (zanpaktou) + Normal Hollow

Next level is

Dual wielding Vaizard = Shinigami (zanpaktou) + Arrancar (Hollow Blade)


Yep, that's my theory. Either that, or the Zanpaktou and the Hollow sword are merged into a single new weapon.

Wouldn't it be

Shinigami: Shinkai -> Bankai -> Vaizard

Hollow: Mask -> Menos -> Arrancar

And basically at the last point he would have the special attack that characterizes an arrancar as well as the zanpaktou?

[Vorlath]

Didn't Muramasa say that the Zampaktou would die if they did not leave the body? Seems like it's forced and not a choice at all. I wonder if it's not a special technique that can put Zampaktou souls into those pills. And the fake body is made up of spirit particles, but is controlled by Muramasa. Dunno. Seems like weird technique, and a little too powerful the way it is described in the show right now.

[MasterOfMoogles]

I get the feeling that Zangetsu isn't being controlled. I bet he's doing one of 2 things:
Testing Ichigo, to see if he can fight off the hollow without him.
Trying to find out what the badguy is up to.
Maybe both.

Might help explain why Ichigo still has Zangetsu's powers.

[DarthEnderX]

Wouldn't it be

Shinigami: Shinkai -> Bankai -> Vaizard

Hollow: Mask -> Menos -> ArrancarI wouldn't say so. Since a lot of the Vizard were Leutenants, and thus probably didn't have Bankai. And there are Arrancar like Grand Fisher that weren't Menos before they became Arrancar.

The process that makes a Shinigami into a Hollow, and Vice-versa, seems unrelated to their stage of development.

Going back to Grand Fisher, he was a low-level Hollow who became and Arrancar and gained the powers of...a low-level Shinigami.


I think that what Ichigo needs to do to become an Arrancar is to have another one of his internal battle, and to actually learn the name of the Hollow spirit that's inside him, since the other Arrancar have names for their blades, just like Shinigami.

[Archangel]

I wouldn't say so. Since a lot of the Vizard were Leutenants, and thus probably didn't have Bankai. And there are Arrancar like Grand Fisher that weren't Menos before they became Arrancar.

The process that makes a Shinigami into a Hollow, and Vice-versa, seems unrelated to their stage of development.

Going back to Grand Fisher, he was a low-level Hollow who became and Arrancar and gained the powers of...a low-level Shinigami.


I think that what Ichigo needs to do to become an Arrancar is to have another one of his internal battle, and to actually learn the name of the Hollow spirit that's inside him, since the other Arrancar have names for their blades, just like Shinigami.

I didn't mean that as an obligatory order they must follow, but as the order one should follow to obtain the "ultimate power" so to speak

And didn't Hichigo say time and time again that he didn't have a name?

[DarthEnderX]

Ichigo or Hichigo?

If it was Ichigo, he may just not want to know the name of the monster inside him. If it was Hichigo saying it, he may not want Ichigo to know it because knowing his name might give him power over him.

[UChessmaster]

I beleive Hichigo appeared as a playable character in a ps2 fighting bleach game and his name appeared there...

[David75]

Okay...
Ichigo, Hichigo and Zangetsu... Too many souls in that body.

Hichigo using Getsuga Tenshou is no surprise. I guess you all noticed that Zangestu's GT was blue, very different from the very dark purple one Ichigo uses in Bankai form.
So my guess is that Hichigo has always been a part of the GT attack, probably even stronger that Zangestu.

Regarding Hichigo's evolution, I guess that Espada would be the ultimate, a top rank one of course, if not top rank. But honestly, having 3 entities to deal with is a lot story wise, at least it's my opinion.

[Archangel]

I beleive Hichigo appeared as a playable character in a ps2 fighting bleach game and his name appeared there...

That proves nothing

The game has also given powers to the captains that don't really have in the canon material

[Kraco]

Besides, I don't think we have ever seen Ichigo playing PS2, so he can't cheat by getting the game and learning the name that way.

[12345p]

I miss the conversations Hichigo & Ichigo had. I wish they did something similar again - playing up the drama. Having Ichigo re-win control with Hichigo getting the last few words in before he disappears again "Know what, Ichigo?! You really do suck.." that would have been the pinnicle of that fight.

Overall, I have a love-hate relationship with this filler arc. I'd have to re-watch from the start, but my initial understanding of Shinigami's relationship with thier Zanpakutō wasn't in the form of seperate souls. I've more preferred the wikipedia's definition:a weapon which reflects aspects of their soul and personality. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanpakut%C5%8D#Characteristics) As such, to me, this arc just feels wrong.

I mean, depending on when you place this arc (which has to be after the 11 second hollow level Ichigo), shouldn't Muramasa pulled out Hichigo instead of Zangetsu? - - Because at that point, at least to me, the hollow part of his spirit completely consumed Zangetsu. Unless the old guy was hiding off somewhere in Ichigo's internal world of his..

That said, aspects of how this will play out intrigue me. I'm definately happy to see Zangetsu again. And I want to see how the the materialized Zanpakutō return to "owners/partners/pals/etc".

Oh yeah, that surprised look on Muramasa's face was classic. I wonder if he's going for another extraction?:D

[UChessmaster]

That proves nothing

The game has also given powers to the captains that don't really have in the canon material

I beleive some bleach game showed a shikai or two BEFORE the manga did.

EDIT: i looked and no hollow ichigo name so nvm :(