One Piece Episode 410

[Penner]

[KubuSubs] One Piece 410v2 [1280x720].​mkv (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=75810)

[KubuSubs] One Piece 410 [704x396].​mp4 (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=75804)

[Assertn]

did it seem to anybody else that Hancock's earrings were getting larger and larger over the course of the episode?

[Kraco]

For some reason I think Margaret is hotter than Boa.

I wonder how long it takes before we learn where the others landed. It seems to me the series can stay at this for quite some time, if Oda so desires, because if they are all fully dispersed, it's basically as many separate stories as there are Straw hat crew members.

[Marik]

I'm disappointed in the seiyuu they chose for Boa. The voice doesn't mesh well with her in my opinion

[poopdeville]

Vice-Admiral Momonga was on Enies Lobby, during the Buster Call.

Hancock looks like she is related to Luffy and Ace. Maybe the reason they don't have any male children is because the Kuja leave them at sea, as orphans.

[Penner]

Ya she does look very similar, kinda like a mix of the two.

[DarthEnderX]

For some reason I think Margaret is hotter than Boa.Maybe on some level you find evil bitches unattractive.

I mean, seriously, the first thing she does after her introduction is kick a kitten. You can't WRITE a less likable character than that.


And while she does look like Ace/Luffy, if she was related to them, I assume she'd have the D. in her name.

It would be pretty awesome if Luffy's mother was an amazon though. Especially if that was intentionally why Kuma sent him there.

[Assertn]

I'm surprised nobody commented on Hancock being a schichibukai or the ambition (aka haki) arrows yet.

[Penner]

Hmm.. not sure why but i wasnt surprised at all when they said she was a Shishibukai, not even a little... didnt even react lol

[Assertn]

Oda's been going nuts with the schichibukais lately. With Hancock, that makes 6 of the 7 current positions revealed.

[UChessmaster]

Sanji would have NO chance fighting Hancock @_@

[Penner]

I bet her stone-gaze is no match for Sanjis love for women, call it his "mellorine-power" if you will. ^_^

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know what to think of Ambition yet. I'm guessing it must be One Piece's catch all "spirit energy" because Raleigh uses it to knock people out, the Amazon's use it to make their attack powerful.

It's the kind of thing that normally forms the basis for most Shounen animes. I'm surprised One Piece didn't even introduce it till almost 400 episodes in. :p
Oda's been going nuts with the schichibukais lately. With Hancock, that makes 6 of the 7 current positions revealed.Well, we already know the last one is Jinbei the fishman.

[Death13a]

Ambition/haki was from beginning when Shanks used it to scare monster away after it took his arm, few times Zoro and Luffy used it.

[The Chancellor]

For some reason I think Margaret is hotter than Boa.

I can't believe I'm commenting on a cartoon, but no I disagree. Cuter yes, hotter no. Shes a blonde for godsakes lol. I know of no blondes that are at all attractive. They just aren't.

This haki thing is worrying me. If Oda is saying that you can put into weapons to make them stronger, then imagine what the NW pirates or Yonkou can do with it.

[poopdeville]

Isn't that how Shanks and Whitebeard split the sky in half? Isn't that what makes Mihawk's sword the strongest in the world?

[DarthEnderX]

I wonder if Ambition is why Raleigh was able to block Kizaru's attacks. If Logia users can't pass through the "spiritual pressure" it would solve the problem Luffy has now with Logia users if he learned how to use it.


I know of no blondes that are at all attractive. They just aren't.Yeah, you're normal...

[Penner]

Ambition... its how Rocky wins in boxing.

[Assertn]

Isn't that how Shanks and Whitebeard split the sky in half? Isn't that what makes Mihawk's sword the strongest in the world?

We know Shanks uses haki, but its never been stated whether any of the shichibukai do. I imagine that if anyone of any status could use haki, then that would completely negate the advantage most logia users have. Mihawk's sword is physically one of the strongest swords in the world according to documentation on legendary swords.

[poopdeville]

I think that Shanks and Mihawk being rivals of swordsmanship strongly indicates that Mihawk is as determined as (or close to) Shanks.

[FireEmblem]

The next episode has sick animation so I'm definitely looking forward to it.

[Assertn]

I think that Shanks and Mihawk being rivals of swordsmanship strongly indicates that Mihawk is as determined as (or close to) Shanks.
By that logic, it would mean that the amazons are more determined than Luffy cause Luffy can't inject haki into weapons. I'm sure its way more complicated than that.

[poopdeville]

We know Shanks can use haki to cripple his opponents, unless they have the ambition to resist it. Shanks and Mihawk fought evenly, supposedly. Ergo, Mihawk can resist it.

[Sentenal]

We know Shanks can use haki to cripple his opponents, unless they have the ambition to resist it. Shanks and Mihawk fought evenly, supposedly. Ergo, Mihawk can resist it.
Being able to resist it doesn't mean he has the ability to use it. Nami didn't get knocked out by Raleigh's use of Haki in the auction house, and I doubt she would be considered able to use Haki.

[DarthEnderX]

I'm pretty sure when Raleigh used his power in the Auction House, he specifically excluded the strawhats and his friends. Because even the starfish didn't pass out. And I don't think the starfish has stronger will than the guards.

[Assertn]

I'm pretty sure when Raleigh used his power in the Auction House, he specifically excluded the strawhats and his friends. Because even the starfish didn't pass out. And I don't think the starfish has stronger will than the guards.
Nah, but Raleigh did look somewhat surprised to see Law and Kidd's crews withstand it, and I doubt they know how to fight with haki...

[DarthEnderX]

If they don't now, I'm sure they will by the time we see them again. :p

[Sentenal]

I actually wonder how the other Super Nova crews made it out, or if they made it out. Alot of them got owned by Kizaru, and then Law/Kid barely defeated one Pacifista, and then another one arrived right when they were exhausted from fighting the first one. And I doubt Kuma teleported all of them away, like what happened to the Strawhats.

[poopdeville]

Being able to resist it doesn't mean he has the ability to use it.

Yes it does. That's exactly what it means. It was Mihawk's determination to win against Shanks' determination. If one of them is too scared to fight, the other wins by default. You can't resist another person's determination without determination of your own. (Isn't this obvious? It's true in real life.)

Rayleigh's "haki blast" is not a super power. It's a reflection of the fact that people sense strength, and showing his true strength scares the crap out of everybody else. Rayleigh was hiding his true powers before the auction, and revealed a tiny bit of them, to make the weak shit their pants.

Nami might not have exceptional "true powers", but she has enough determination to be a Straw Hat. That is to say, Nami's true powers don't really scare anyone into shitting their pants. But she obviously has an ambition (sailing around the world and making her map, being a Straw Hat), and SOME powers. She has used that determination as a source of power in fights before. So she has been "using" her haki. Indeed, Nami resisted it, and Rayleigh was impressed. When other people were in enough terror to faint, the Straw Hats and other pirate crews kept their cool (presumably because they've been through tough fights and scary situations before, and are "strong")

Haki is not a super power. This is all unambiguous in Japanese, by the way. 'Haki' doesn't have a direct English translation, but means "ambition", "determination", and "disposition" or "attitude". Everybody has an attitude, and every fighter brings his attitude into his fights.

Ussop is probably the clearest example of an "unconfirmed" "haki user" we have seen. Perona's Negative Hollow DF attack filled the victim with thoughts of negativity. But Ussop's is ALWAYS scared shitless (and is a pessimist to boot), and even still is determined to do what he needs to do to become a great warrior of the sea. So Perona's attack didn't affect him. Ussop's attitude (his extreme negativity) and determination (his will to fight in spite of his negativity) -- his haki -- is what got him through that fight. I mean that very literally, and Ussop even said so.

But as I said, this is unambiguous in Japanese. We will probably never get "confirmation" that Ussop was using haki then, because it is so blindingly obvious if you know what the word means (which admittedly, is easily lost in translation. Especially to a western audience that expects a power scale or something like Nen in Hunter x Hunter)

[DarthEnderX]

Nen from Hunter X Hunter is exactly the impression that I get from Ambition at the moment. When it's explained better I might change my mind, but that's how I view it currently.

[Assertn]

You know what else isn't supposed to be a super power? Chi. Yet apparently in the DBZ world it causes you to glow and shoot projectiles from your hands.

In the world of shounen, anything can become a super power. There's no other reason why generic amazon #23 can shatter rocks with her haki arrows while Lucci's punches bounced off of Luffy's rubber body.

[Sentenal]

Haki is a power people are using in One Piece to knock people out, to break things, or to fight logia users. Its the fucking Chi of One Piece, how can you say anything to the contray lol? Was Luffy not determined as fuck when Aokiji nearly killed him? Or the first two times against Crocodile? Otherwise, how else can you explain generic amazon women using Haki better than Luffy when he had defeated a Shichibukai? Are they more determined than Luffy? Of course not. Nami is not a Haki user. She can resist it, but that doesn't mean she can use it.

[poopdeville]

Was Luffy not determined as fuck when Aokiji nearly killed him? Or the first two times against Crocodile? Otherwise, how else can you explain generic amazon women using Haki better than Luffy when he had defeated a Shichibukai? Are they more determined than Luffy? Of course not. Nami is not a Haki user. She can resist it, but that doesn't mean she can use it.

What do the Amazons have to do with Aokiji and Crocodile? Yes, Luffy was determined against Aokiji and Crocodile. It turns out that you need to be strong and determined, because Aokiji is strong. I don't see how this contradicts what I said. In fact, it seems to indicate that determination alone is not strength. Luffy would have done anything within his power to save the crew from Kuma, for example, but he couldn't do anything. He was too weak.

Yes, the Amazons have skills Luffy doesn't. So does Sanji and Zoro and Nami and everybody else. Luffy also doesn't know how to make flames come out of his feet. That is Sanji's talent. Luffy also doesn't know how to use his feelings to accurately predict the weather. That's Nami's talent. So what is your point? That one technique "uses" haki? What makes you think the others don't? Indeed, "haki" means "attitude", "determination", "ambition". All of these characters have developed their skills and become stronger as a means to pursue their ambitions. Haki isn't a skill at all.

[DarthEnderX]

All of that hinges on the fact that Oda means Haki literally, instead of just using it at the name of his spiritual energy for his series. Like Chakra in Naruto, which means something completely different in the real world, but in Naruto is just used as a name for the series spiritual energy.

Any notion I had for ambition as an idea instead of an energy went out the window when they said they could imbue their weapons with it.

[Sentenal]

What do the Amazons have to do with Aokiji and Crocodile? Yes, Luffy was determined against Aokiji and Crocodile. It turns out that you need to be strong and determined, because Aokiji is strong. I don't see how this contradicts what I said. In fact, it seems to indicate that determination alone is not strength. Luffy would have done anything within his power to save the crew from Kuma, for example, but he couldn't do anything. He was too weak.
Luffy has used Haki maybe once or twice thus far, and did so without knowing what it is. The Amazons apparently use it for all their attacks. Therefore, the Amazons are better at using Haki than Luffy at this moment. Are generic amazons, who use Haki in all of their attacks, stronger and more determined than Luffy? No, they aren't. Infact, on the grand order of things, I'd say that alot of these Amazons we have seen aren't even that strong. The Strongest Amazons are with Boa Hancock, and the weaker ones are left on the island. Therefore, Haki isn't literally people who are "strong and determined" having special abilities (such as knocking people out, splitting the sky, or damaging Logia users).

Haki is the "chi" or "chakra" or whatever in One Piece. This is an established fact now.

[poopdeville]

Luffy has used Haki maybe once or twice thus far, and did so without knowing what it is. The Amazons apparently use it for all their attacks. Therefore, the Amazons are better at using Haki than Luffy at this moment. Are generic amazons, who use Haki in all of their attacks, stronger and more determined than Luffy? No, they aren't. Infact, on the grand order of things, I'd say that alot of these Amazons we have seen aren't even that strong. The Strongest Amazons are with Boa Hancock, and the weaker ones are left on the island. Therefore, Haki isn't literally people who are "strong and determined" having special abilities (such as knocking people out, splitting the sky, or damaging Logia users).


That last "therefore" simply does not follow from what you have established. All you have shown is that the Amazons are more skilled at ONE PARTICULAR "haki-using skill." I am saying that HAKI ISN'T A SKILL. I am saying that Haki is a reflection of a person's skill and determination. Luffy has his OWN haki, and it's called the King's Disposition, and he has shown it about a dozen times by now. Basically every time he's yelled while punching somebody out. (Crocodile, Enel, the Tenryubiito guy for example)

Are you really going to argue that Luffy wasn't using his fists to show his determination against Rob Lucci? That he wasn't pushing himself as hard as he could, so he could punch Rob Lucci as hard as he could? That is just as much "haki" as the Amazons shooting their arrows "extra hard". (What do you think shooting arrows "extra hard" reveals about the Amazons? I think it means they have practiced their archery, just as Luffy has practiced his DF skills to become strong)

So Luffy didn't know what it was called. Big flippin deal.

Also, it's pretty stupid to say that the Amazons are not "strong and determined" just because the strongest of them leave the island. They are a race of warriors, and they value strength above everything else. That is why they are so determined to become great warriors. Indeed, that is why the Amazons have great warriors in the first place. Because they all aspire to become strong.



Haki is the "chi" or "chakra" or whatever in One Piece.
This is an established fact now.

Oh, really? Point out where they establish this "fact", please.

Just calling something an "established fact" doesn't make it so. Your rhetoric is really shitty, dude.

[Sentenal]

That last "therefore" simply does not follow from what you have established. All you have shown is that the Amazons are more skilled at ONE PARTICULAR "haki-using skill." I am saying that HAKI ISN'T A SKILL. I am saying that Haki is a reflection of a person's skill and determination. Luffy has his OWN haki, and it's called the King's Disposition, and he has shown it about a dozen times by now. Basically every time he's yelled while punching somebody out. (Crocodile, Enel, the Tenryubiito guy for example)
Raleigh was able to fight with Kizaru, and Logia user, because of his use of Haki. When Luffy fought Crocodile, the only time he could hit Crocodile, was when either one of them was wet. Not via Haki. If Luffy was using his Haki in the first 2 battles, why was Raleigh able to hit a Logia user, and not Luffy? The only conclusion we can draw from this, is either Luffy's Haki sucks, or he didn't use Haki.

When Luffy fought Enel, he could hit Enel because Luffy is rubber, and Enel's natural enemy. If there was any Haki used in that battle, it was unnoticeable.

When Luffy fought Aokiji, and if he was using Haki in that battle, why was he unable to damage Aokiji? Again, why would Raleigh be able to do something like that with Haki, and yet Luffy not (assuming Luffy used Haki against Aokiji)? Again, the only two conclusions to draw from this battle, is either Luffy's haki is useless, or he didn't use it.

The Amazons using Haki time and time again in all of their attacks (or most of their attacks). Not only do they use it, the effects of it are clearly seen, and it is stated to be because of the Haki. Are the generic Amazons stronger, or more determined than Luffy, when Luffy fought Aokiji? Or Kuma? If what you are saying is true, with Haki simply reflecting a person's determination and skill, then you more or less saying that Amazons are stronger and more determined than Luffy.

Even Luffy's Haki having a specific name, meaning that it has been classified, proves that it isn't just determination. I mean, how the hell would you classify determination? Or is getting mad and hitting something really hard (what you claim Luffy's haki to be) something only Luffy can do? Or maybe everyone has the Kings Determination (The haki of "getting mad and hitting something"), every time they get mad and hit something.


Also, it's pretty stupid to say that the Amazons are not "strong and determined" just because the strongest of them leave the island. They are a race of warriors, and they value strength above everything else. That is why they are so determined to become great warriors. Indeed, that is why the Amazons have great warriors in the first place. Because they all aspire to become strong.
I'm saying that relative to Luffy, in various points in the past story thus far, the Amazons have not been as strong or determined as Luffy, yet they use Haki better. I'm not saying they are weak, just they are weaker than Luffy.

Btw, I doubt Margaret is "determined" to kill Luff, when she fires her Haki arrows at him, seeing as how she has saved his life several times, and doesn't really seem like his enemy. Yet even with that lack of actual determination, her arrows are said to contain haki.


Oh, really? Point out where they establish this "fact", please.
Attacks being said to contain Haki, and then said attacks are stronger, or different than before. Or maybe Haki removing a bomb off of someone's neck, or allowing damage to a Logia user, or splitting the sky, or knocking someone unconscious, or Haki being something that is even classified into different types. All of this makes Haki a skill to be used.

[Archangel]

You know what else isn't supposed to be a super power? Chi. Yet apparently in the DBZ world it causes you to glow and shoot projectiles from your hands.

In the world of shounen, anything can become a super power. There's no other reason why generic amazon #23 can shatter rocks with her haki arrows while Lucci's punches bounced off of Luffy's rubber body.

Don't you mean Ki?

[Assertn]

Luffy has his OWN haki, and it's called the King's Disposition, and he has shown it about a dozen times by now. Basically every time he's yelled while punching somebody out.
You clearly don't know what "King's Disposition" is, which is a good thing cause it would be a spoiler to talk about it here.

[chambers]

come on poop you have to recognize that as soon as the mention of inbuing a WEAPON with haki made it into somthing completley different than what it you think it means. You can no more imbue a weapon with your ambition than you can with love or anything else that is abstract. Previous to the showing of WEAPONS using haki i would have almost agreed with you, but now its clear its the "next step" in power. Just like for the marines i think in the future we will see many more "base" marines using techniques like soru such as coby and hippo.

But we dont even know if it IS the amazons who have imbued the arrows/bows with haki, it could have been somone else, kind of like a blessing from boa or somthing.

And i tend to be more interested in what somone else mentioned at this point in time.... what happens to kidd, law and all the other novas!

[poopdeville]

come on poop you have to recognize that as soon as the mention of inbuing a WEAPON with haki made it into somthing completley different than what it you think it means. You can no more imbue a weapon with your ambition than you can with love or anything else that is abstract. ...


Isn't that exactly what Zoro's master was talking about?

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/194/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/194/16/

Zoro says he "transfers his thoughts through his sword" here:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/195/18/

@Assertn: you're right, sorry! I'm not a fan of the manga and anime being basically in the same arc. It's hard to keep track of what has happened where.

[Assertn]

Isn't that exactly what Zoro's master was talking about?

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/194/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/194/16/

Zoro says he "transfers his thoughts through his sword" here:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/195/18/

Now you're just drawing assumptions. There's no significant correlation between cutting steel and having a sword imbued with haki.

Just like how there's no significant correlation to say, Luffy's gear 2nd vs Soru.

[poopdeville]

Uh... Luffy learned Second Gear by figuring out how Soru works. He said so himself.

And what IS a significant correlation is "channeling your power through your weapon", which has been called "haki" in the last few chapters/episodes. Also, Zoro SAYS he is transferring his thoughts through his sword. I say that there is no difference between this and "imbuing".

[Assertn]

Uh... Luffy learned Second Gear by figuring out how Soru works. He said so himself. Luffy got the idea from Soru, but I assure you, Soru does not work by forcibly pumping blood through your circulatory system at a faster rate.


And what IS a significant correlation is "channeling your power through your weapon", which has been called "haki" in the last few chapters/episodes. Also, Zoro SAYS he is transferring his thoughts through his sword. I say that there is no difference between this and "imbuing".
Are you suggesting that Zoro should be able to cut logia users?

[poopdeville]

Luffy got the idea from Soru, but I assure you, Soru does not work by forcibly pumping blood through your circulatory system at a faster rate.

Well, I'm sure CP9 is in excellent cardiovascular health. They don't need to "forcibly" pump blood faster, because their hearts do it naturally. This is a bit of a tangent, but we are mostly in agreement.



Are you suggesting that Zoro should be able to cut logia users?

Not at the moment. I don't think he's strong/fast enough now. But I am sure his sword will be able to "cut nothing, and cut everything" by the end of the show.

On the other hand, the fact that Luffy could dodge the Amazon's arrows makes me think a generic Amazon is too weak to hurt a Logia user too (for the same reason). The way I see it, those arrows would have to be flying fast enough to do damage to the Logia user before he can change into his element. (Or surprise him, like how Luffy hit Ace and Smoker in Arabasta.)

[The Chancellor]

Well, I'm sure CP9 is in excellent cardiovascular health

I loled man. Nice.



Not at the moment. I don't think he's strong/fast enough now. But I am sure his sword will be able to "cut nothing, and cut everything" by the end of the show.

Then you're implying that Mihawk can easily take down an admiral with little work. I think that's complete bullshit. When are you guys going to get it through your heads that other than a few respective elements (water and Crocodile, Luffy and Enel) logias are near invincible. And I swear if someone busts out Rayliegh on me then I'm going off. He was 100 times stronger than all of the super novas combined and had years of experience. He's probably encountered almost every logia user already to begin with. He's been to the end of the world and back. So he's an exception to the rule.

[Splash!]

He was 100 times stronger than all of the super novas combined and had years of experience. He's probably encountered almost every logia user already to begin with. He's been to the end of the world and back. So he's an exception to the rule.

By the 'end of the show', Zoro would be the same. It's not so ridiculous to believe that at that point, he would have gained the power to cut a logia user.

@poopdeville: I don't see the problem with Haki being everything that you say it is and at the same time, be the basis for super powerful techiques in One Piece, just like chi was in DragonBallZ.

Clearly, the ability to be able to cut through steel is not an everyday skill. Being able to accomplish it is indeed a super power born through the manifestation of Zoro's haki (I do agree with you that Zoro is imbuing his sword with haki). I also agree with you that haki is probably something all individuals possess to a certain degree, though some have a much stronger 'ambition' than others. How is it any different from Chi (thinking of the Spirit Bomb)?

Like you said, Haki in itself is not a 'skill', just like Chi wasn't either. Chi was used as the foundation for the abilities in DragonBallZ but was not an ability in itself.

[Lucifus]

Just watch the show or pick up the manga. Most of this speculating sounds childish. =P

A few of the ideas ya guys came up with definitely seem to hit home though.

[DarthEnderX]

On the subject of Second Gear and Soru:

While in Second Gear, Luffy is using Soru, the same way CP9 uses it. He kicks the ground 10 times the moment before he moves.

But Soru normally requires years of training your body so that it can withstand using the ability.

Second Gear empowers Luffy's body like steroids by increasing the blood flow throughout his body. But Second Gear doesn't actually give Luffy any powers. All it does is enables his body to be able to withstand using Soru without needing years of training.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/08/

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/388/09/

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/420/14/

[Marik]

Just a heads up. No One Piece this week. The next episode airs Aug 2nd.

[Archangel]

Noooooooooo~~!

[poopdeville]

I don't see the problem with Haki being everything that you say it is and at the same time, be the basis for super powerful techiques in One Piece, just like chi was in DragonBallZ.

My interpretation turns "cause and effect" around for haki. Most people interpret haki as making one strong. During this part of the manga, readers hoped that Luffy and the others would "learn haki" so that they would survive in the New World, as if haki was the basis for techniques.

I see it the other way around. You only have a strong presence (haki) if you are already strong. Haki is a sign of strength, not a source of it. A barking puppy might be determined to keep a burglar out of your house, but it isn't strong enough. A sleeping pitbull isn't going to be much help either. A barking pit bull will stop everyone in their tracks (or make them run the other way). That is "strong haki", in real life.

(On the other hand, determination is necessary to TRAIN to be strong. And the stronger that determination is, the stronger you should get, because you "should" be training harder)


Clearly, the ability to be able to cut through steel is not an everyday skill. Being able to accomplish it is indeed a super power born through the manifestation of Zoro's haki (I do agree with you that Zoro is imbuing his sword with haki). I also agree with you that haki is probably something all individuals possess to a certain degree, though some have a much stronger 'ambition' than others. How is it any different from Chi (thinking of the Spirit Bomb)?


I don't think haki is a physical substance, like chakra or chi. I don't think Zoro is literally putting a magical energy into his sword, like how Sasuke molds chakra to make his electric sword. I think he is just concentrating, and drawing out his "true strength". I don't mind calling this "imbuing", especially since Zoro described it as "transferring his thoughts through his sword." Both "imbuing" and "transferring" sound like metaphorical descriptions of the same idea. Especially since "to imbue" primarily means "to inspire". I do not mind the idea of Zoro "inspiring his sword with his determination".

[Assertn]

I'm not arguing that you don't need strength to have haki. I do, however, believe that the inner strength or "determination" is what outwardly manifests into some sort of technique, similarly to chakra and chi.

Yes, Luffy and Zoro have expressed determination to the capacity that they have been able to immobolize, freak out, or knock out opponents with it alone (Zoro scaring the bounty hunters on shabondy, Luffy knocking out Duval's bull, etc), the same way Rayleigh and Shanks have made people faint by their determination. However, this has a very different effect when its concentrated into some sort of attack, such as the haki arrows or Rayleigh's sword.

Haki is an aura. It can flow freely from someone, or it can be concentrated. Just as someone mentioned earlier, the starfish didn't faint from Rayleigh's haki blast. This is because its something Rayleigh can project outward in a controlled manner. How could this work under your definition?

[poopdeville]

There are like 10 people in the cell with Rayleigh and the Giant. If Rayleigh is so good at targeting, why did the Giant know it was him?

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/500/18/

[Splash!]

My interpretation turns "cause and effect" around for haki. Most people interpret haki as making one strong. During this part of the manga, readers hoped that Luffy and the others would "learn haki" so that they would survive in the New World, as if haki was the basis for techniques.

I see it the other way around. You only have a strong presence (haki) if you are already strong. Haki is a sign of strength, not a source of it.

I won't pretend to know much about the meaning of the word in Japanese but if you put it that way, 'ambition' sounds like a really bad way to translate it. Afterall, ambition is more of a driving factor towards becoming stronger and establishing yourself. It is not something that comes after the fact.

So you are saying Haki is more along the lines of a domineering or commanding presence?



Haki is an aura. It can flow freely from someone, or it can be concentrated. Just as someone mentioned earlier, the starfish didn't faint from Rayleigh's haki blast. This is because its something Rayleigh can project outward in a controlled manner. How could this work under your definition?

Zoro's teacher comes to mind. The power to able to cut through anything and nothing.
I guess your commanding personality wont scare the crap out of someone if you hold no sense of hostility or anger towards them? (or don't look down on them).

If that is the case, then it makes sense that it wouldn't cause your friends to faint. It would be pretty stupid if all the small fry in Shanks' or Whitebeard's fainted in the presence of their captain's haki. There would be no point in having weak crew members on your ship if everytime the captain got serious, the weak ones fainted.

[Assertn]

There are like 10 people in the cell with Rayleigh and the Giant. If Rayleigh is so good at targeting, why did the Giant know it was him?

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/500/18/
That neither proves your theory nor disproves mine. Rayleigh could have just as easily shot the guy with a silenced pistol and the giant could have drawn his suspicions.

[DarthEnderX]

David Xanatos avatar ftw.


Also, I think it's weird that they establish that, to the amazons, strength is the true measure of beauty, but then their leader seems loved because she is physically beautiful.

[Penner]

Yeh, but its a safe bet that shes also the most powerful one, so shes got beauty and power, but her personality seems completely fucked... who kicks a kitten?

[Assertn]

Yeh, but its a safe bet that shes also the most powerful one, so shes got beauty and power, but her personality seems completely fucked... who kicks a kitten?
It's ok, I forgive her

[The Chancellor]

effect when its concentrated into some sort of attack, such as the haki arrows or Rayleigh's sword.

You're still assuming that it's how he cut Kizaru.

[chambers]

I think thats the kicker really, we all recognize now that haki is what the dark king used in the auction house, and also what shanks used on whitebeards crew. But we DONT KNOW that what raleigh used in order to combat Kizaru...

#one thing i do think however is that haki is an ability, an ability to focus ones will. Luffy may have the presence, determination and strength to knock people down with a look, but unless somone shows him how to tap into the techniques it will never reach its full potential.

Now it can be argued that "oh but how can ambition be a basis for techniques" well if you take into account that this is a work of fiction and i cant even think of a long running shonen anime that DIDNT have some kind of secret none real powersource that characters could tap into .... and they ALL created preassure (and its been described that way many times) on the relative opponent. From Naruto and bleach to Hajime no ippo. When you focus on your ambitions you become more determined and can achive things seemingly out of reach.

[UChessmaster]

I hope Silver`s ability to stop logia users is a DF, it would nerf logia users severelly otherwise.

[Assertn]

I hope Silver`s ability to stop logia users is a DF, it would nerf logia users severelly otherwise.
On one hand, I agree. On the other hand....
It would also be lame if someone like Shanks, who also mastered haki and clearly has no DF, was defenseless against someone like Smoker.

[Archangel]

I hope Silver`s ability to stop logia users is a DF, it would nerf logia users severelly otherwise.

What's wrong with nerfing the haxx?

How exactly do you expect Luffy to go against the admirals otherwise?

[chambers]

oh wait... now that you mention that it makes me wonder...

black beard has a dark/shadow fruit and can remove other users powers when they touch him right? DARK king raleigh? coincidence?

[UChessmaster]

What's wrong with nerfing the haxx?

How exactly do you expect Luffy to go against the admirals otherwise?

Crocodile, Enel, both logia users, both defeated, both times we wondered "How exactly do we expect luffy to go against that?"

[Assertn]

Crocodile, Enel, both logia users, both defeated, both times we wondered "How exactly do we expect luffy to go against that?"
So how would you propose someone would fight against light? Darkness?

A nerfing tool has already been introduced into the series anyway -- Kairoseki.
I still think Wiper and Zoro could have killed Enel if Wiper held Enel down with the kairoseki while Zoro chopped off his head.

[UChessmaster]

If there is a way to defeat sand and thunder, i`m sure there is one to beat light and darkness, although darkness doesn`t seems THAT hard to defeat. someone with superior fighting skills should defeat BB.

[Archangel]

Crocodile, Enel, both logia users, both defeated, both times we wondered "How exactly do we expect luffy to go against that?"

Actually, i called how Enel was going to be defeated the moment i realized he was an electrical man ( and i'm sure i wasn't the only one )

And as far as i'm concerned Haki is a great solution for what i thought was way too much of an haxx ability.

[UChessmaster]

Actually, i called how Enel was going to be defeated the moment i realized he was an electrical man ( and i'm sure i wasn't the only one )

And as far as i'm concerned Haki is a great solution for what i thought was way too much of an haxx ability.

The problem is that using haki to nulify logia doesn`t balances a thing, i just feel that making it so is the easy way out, kishimoto haven`t given Zoro a waterstone sword for that reason as far as i`m concerned, how would this be any diferent? it would become a race of seeing how fast you can reach that fire user and hit him with your own OP paramecia fruit,if haki really can nulify logia then i hope none of the crew learns it.

[Splash!]

Nothing that we have seen suggests that Haki can nullify logia abilities. Even at Rayleigh's level (the level of a man who is been to the end of the world and back), the only thing he has gained is the ability to land a physical hit. Blackbeard is the only one who can NULLIFY.

Why does everyone forget that there is more to a logia user than the ability to let attacks pass through? So what if they aren't physically invulnerable anymore, they can still control an element. This gives them a reason to get better at using their powers. Being untouchable doesn't really give you much incentive to get stronger.

[The Chancellor]

What's wrong with nerfing the haxx?

Because brohammer:

A. This isn't World Of Warcraft

B. Nerfing would entail someone of great strength to get suddenly weaker.

[UChessmaster]

Nothing that we have seen suggests that Haki can nullify logia abilities. Even at Rayleigh's level (the level of a man who is been to the end of the world and back), the only thing he has gained is the ability to land a physical hit. Blackbeard is the only one who can NULLIFY.

Why does everyone forget that there is more to a logia user than the ability to let attacks pass through? So what if they aren't physically invulnerable anymore, they can still control an element. This gives them a reason to get better at using their powers. Being untouchable doesn't really give you much incentive to get stronger.

Of course we`re assuming haki let`s you hit a logia user and as i said, it becomes a race to reach that logia user.

[Splash!]

Of course we`re assuming haki let`s you hit a logia user and as i said, it becomes a race to reach that logia user.

A 'race' to reach that logia user? You make it sound as if the logia user is completely defenseless if they are not invulnerable, making defeat inevitable.

A logia user, because of the elemental nature of their DF ability, automatically gains a huge advantage in terms of evasion and attack power over their opponent. In my mind, they should still be much stronger than other DF users. To lose inspite of this is pretty pathetic.

Someone that just relies on invulnerability and cannot make good use of the strongest class of DF abilities does not deserve any sort of recognition in the New World.

[Assertn]

Regardless of how Rayleigh was able to injure Kizaru, Kizaru still seemed like a pretty even match.

[tigerleon]

i was just re-watching some episodes to kill time and i noticed something that may have an impact on your talks about Haki . or it may not =.="
Id like to bring attention to Episode 293 5:50
at this point Chopper eats 3 rumbles and as we all know turns into giant rampaging tanuki. He gives out a Large roar which stops kimamori(?) from being able to attack with his hair technique semei kikan~ . This may be a branch of Kings disposition when used in an unconscious state?, where your body's natural instincts kick in.? but i think im just stabbing in the dark.
My apologies its hard for me to explain what im thinking. it would be better if u could peek at that part of the episode. i really believe it could be worth the time.

please discuss :D

[chambers]

can we please stop mentioning THAT ability when it hasnt even been touched in the anime or even remotley mentioned...? also how can chopper have it... hes a reindeer.

[The Chancellor]

Regardless of how Rayleigh was able to injure Kizaru, Kizaru still seemed like a pretty even match. He was going easy on him. If he started blasting him with beams and things, old man woulda been going down

[tigerleon]

I don't think just because hes a reindeer, he SHOULD NOT have that ability. i was merely saying maybe his primal instincts kicked in.? seeing as he lost consciousness with a very threatening aura about him.
and my apologies for mentioning " the" ability

[Seki12]

Hi Guys i have been keeping up with the anime for a rly long time and its the best series ever!!! i just found this forum with the Thread of the "Hottest Babe in One Piece" One of the best Threads i ever read with Jad and forgot the other dude xD
Just Join and my first post
Sry i think my introduction to the forum is too long
Well Penner that comment about rocky was so funny i had to reply somehow jajjajja
keep it up with the funny comments :P well i know i reply to late but i had to replay so funny

[chambers]

welcome to ethe forums ;)

[tigerleon]

hey there and welcome. its gonna be great talking about the best anime ever :D

[Penner]

Welcome to our little corner of the internet Seki12 ^_^

[Archangel]

When did this become the introductions thread?

[poopdeville]

When somebody used their first post to say hello, and people decided to say hello back.

Welcome aboard, Seki.

[depthcharge]

So how would you propose someone would fight against light? Darkness?

A nerfing tool has already been introduced into the series anyway -- Kairoseki.
I still think Wiper and Zoro could have killed Enel if Wiper held Enel down with the kairoseki while Zoro chopped off his head.


Sometimes, we are simply blinded by our brightness that we fail to see that, in the same Cloud Island arc, we were introduced to a plot key called Dial.

DF users that can produce all kinds of elemental disturbance, (to be specific logia activity) should be affected by a Dial of the specific logia property.

In which case, a light Dial would be able to suck a light based DF user's head and keep it in without much trouble. Then followed by a sprinkling of kairoseki on the body and whamm dead admiral kizaru. Eventhough, I doubt Captain Usopp or anyone in the crew would do that. They would just keep the Dial locked up.

Further to answer the second part of your question. How do u fight darkness?

I'll just push the envelope a little, for readers who have not read the Harry Potter Deathly Hallows book, a pretty small spoiler ahead.
Remember the item Ron was given by Dumby? A "lighter" that removes all source of light, technically light and darkness needs to co-exist. Remove one and the other cannot be considered a "true" opposite. If there is no light, how do u know there is darkness.

To properly explain this bizzare logia defeating theory.
BB can absorb everything into him, like a black hole. However the key is that, I believe, (not yet explain but will be explained when our cool manga comes to that stage.) BB's ability would be totally negated, if there is no light present in the entire surrounding that he is in.

Therefore while the physical properties are still there, without light, light dependent Darkness absorbing skill is useless.

Therefore, essentially some one blind like Tosen,(ops) or some other blind character can kick BB's ass with a Light dial just as easily.

[The Chancellor]

I imagine that if anyone of any status could use haki, then that would completely negate the advantage most logia users have. Only if you think Haki was the only undisputed end all be all reasoning for cutting Kizaru's cheek.