Madara Danzou Debate

[RasenDori]

So now that it been revealed that Danzou had the Sharingan I'm sure that conspiracy theorist won't let that silly Danzou is Madara debate go, so let's discuss the facts presented to us here and not waist further chapter discussions on it.

So far here is what we do know that supports the Danzou = Madara theory:

They both have the sharingan in the same eye.

So far here is what we know that debunks that theory:

Danzou and Madara have opposing goals. Madara want's Konoha destroyed. Danzou protects it through twisted methods.

Madara has had a number of opportunities to kill Sasuke,but hasn't. While Danzou has had a covert mission to kill Sasuke since he left the village, and never wanted Itachi to keep him alive in the first place.

Danzou wants to recover his right arm and eye for some reason, (The eye looks fine to me) and wants to use Kabuto to obtain Orochimaru's research for this goal. Madara could have easily had access to this information while Orochimaru was a member of Akatsuki.

If I'm reading into it correctly Madara is the true possessor of the Gedo Mado statue. Meaning that he had prior knowledge of Yahiko's group, and took measures to use them as early as before Nagato went crazy. The same way that he carefully watched Sasuke's movements before he killed Orochimaru, knowing Itachi's plans and annoying deal to leave Konoha alone. Danzou was on the opposing side of the battle that essentially was the birth of Pain.

In the end if may seem obvious that Danzou is Madara (really... I don't know how it's obvious), but remember all the times that it seemed obvious that Kabuto would betray Orochimaru?

[Archangel]

Begging for a warning are we?

[RasenDori]

I don't see what wrong containing a debate that wont end into it's own threadwhen I didn't find a specific one about it.

[LobsterMagnet]

Danzou is to mandara what Darth Sidious is to Senator Palatine.

Honestly at this point I don't see how there could be any debate that Danzou isn't Mandara and it kind of makes sense in that he'd be playing both sides. Just like how Palpatine had the entire separatist fleet run to Coursesant just to kidnap himself to secure his innocence Mandara sends pein to konoah so he can finally take power which makes getting naruto a lot easier since he can keep him in the village and limit his travel.

If you need any other proof take a look at these two manga pages.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/455/17/

They both have the same hair style. If that's not enough proof in manga terms I don't know what is.

[darkmetal505]

Your thread title needs to change.

I'm thinking of it more like something is attached to his head, the eye looks out of place, sort of like Voldemort did with Quirell.

[Tyreal]

Danzou and Madara have opposing goals. Madara want's Konoha destroyed. Danzou protects it through twisted methods.

I seriously doubt the destruction of Konoha is Madara's only goal. How about World Domination? Or maybe his goal is to recreate Konoha how he wants it, and in order to recreate it how he wants it he needs to destroy it first.


Madara has had a number of opportunities to kill Sasuke,but hasn't. While Danzou has had a covert mission to kill Sasuke since he left the village.

Both the Mizukage and Danzo have simmilar methods of testing a ninja's abilities. Both these include fights to the death. Now if Madara is really the Mizukage and/or Danzo then it is possible that the attempts on Sasuke's life are more like tests. If he passes them he is proven strong, if not then he was never strong enough to be useful anyway.


and never wanted Itachi to keep him alive in the first place

I actually thought Madara wanted Itachi to keep Sasuke alive so Itachi could take his eyes in order to gain EMS? If not then why did Madara tell Itachi that the only way to get EMS was to take his brothers eyes.


Danzou wants to recover his right arm and eye for some reason, (The eye looks fine to me) and wants to use Kabuto to obtain Orochimaru's research for this goal. Madara could have easily had access to this information while Orochimaru was a member of Akatsuki.

Maybe. But what if the data was only gathered recently, say like in the 3 years where Orochimaru had almost unlimited access to an undamged Sharingan. It's been hinted at before that Madara's power isn't what it used, and knowing how much the Uchiha rely on the power of the sharingan this can be taken to mean his sharigan isn't what it used to be and has most likely become damaged (maybe in the battle with the fourth or a side effect of making the Kyuubi to attack Konoha).


If I'm reading into it correctly Madara is the true possessor of the Gedo Mado statue. Meaning that he had prior knowledge of Yahiko's group, and took measures to use them as early as before Nagato went crazy. The same way that he carefully watched Sasuke's movements before he killed Orochimaru, knowing Itachi's plans and annoying deal to leave Konoha alone. Danzou was on the opposing side of the battle that essentially was the birth of Pain.

Hmmm... could you actually clarify what your saying in that paragraph since from the sounds of it your making an argument for why Madara is Danzo not against. If Madara is the possor of the Gedo Mado statue it is more than possible that Danzo/Madara teamed up with the Rain in order to manipulate Pain and gain access to his abilities (along with reveal who the true user of the Riningen is), provided Madara/Danzo had some information linking the Riningen to someone in Yahiko's group.


In the end if may seem obvious that Danzou is Madara (really... I don't know how it's obvious), but remember all the times that it seemed obvious that Kabuto would betray Orochimaru?

I don't remember ever thinking that Kabuto would betray Orochimaru and it never seemed obvious to me. Kabuto has been and will always be a lackey until the day he dies.

[SilentSnake]

Danzou is to mandara what Darth Sidious is to Senator Palatine.

Honestly at this point I don't see how there could be any debate that Danzou isn't Mandara and it kind of makes sense in that he'd be playing both sides. Just like how Palpatine had the entire separatist fleet run to Coursesant just to kidnap himself to secure his innocence Mandara sends pein to konoah so he can finally take power which makes getting naruto a lot easier since he can keep him in the village and limit his travel.

If you need any other proof take a look at these two manga pages.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/455/17/

They both have the same hair style. If that's not enough proof in manga terms I don't know what is.

The only thing these pages show is that both Danzou and Madara are old (so nothing new really)... and that they both have a sharingan in their right eye. BUT Danzou's sharingan has got those "strain" lines in his eye, which might suggest that his eye is NOT his natural eye and is a transplant. I can't remember wether we ever saw this with Kakashi or any other sharingan user UNLESS mangekyou sharingan was used and with Danzou it's just... sharingan :P

Imo Kishi is fooling us into thinking Danzou is Madara, but I might be dead wrong of course:)

as for hair style - maybe they visit the same barber :D

EDIT: to above - you did not think Kabuto would betray Oro? Even Oro suspected Kabuto of betrayal like at least twice... First time was in chuunin arc I think, when Oro said sth like "If you want to stop me, you should do it now Kabuto" and the other time was encounter with Tsunade.

[Abdula]

Danzou wants to recover his right arm and eye for some reason, (The eye looks fine to me) and wants to use Kabuto to obtain Orochimaru's research for this goal. Madara could have easily had access to this information while Orochimaru was a member of Akatsuki.

The reason being that Danzo's right arm seems to be severely injured and his right eye, the sharingan, seems to be a transplant which means he lost his right eye at some point and we all know from Kakashi the side effects the sharingan has on someone who is not an Uchiha. Side effects that are probably even worse for a man Danzo's age.

So let's suppose that Danzo is not Madara. It would make sense that someone who was once strong enough to go toe to toe with Sarutobi when he was in his prime would want access to Orochimaru's research in order to restore his body. Someone who was that strong already wouldn't need a borrowed sharingan.

On the other hand if Danzo is Madara why would he want to restore his right arm and eye? Madara's right arm is fine and his right eye seems to be his only good eye. Also why would he risk possibly exposing himself by using the black ops to acquire Orochimaru's research data when it was previously implied that Madara's intends to use Sasuke's body or possibly just take Sasuke's eyes once he gets EMS.

Someone really needs to change the title of this thread.

[XanBcoo]

On the other hand if Danzo is Madara why would he want to restore his right arm and eye? Madara's right arm is fine and his right eye seems to be his only good eye.
Everyone who still thinks Danzo is Madara needs to read this several times over. Having a Sharingan does not mean you are Madara.

If Danzo turns out to be Madara, it will only be for the sake of using it as a plot twist. There would be so many inconsistencies and loose ends that would have to be tied up and explained for it to make any sense whatsoever.

[The Chancellor]

If Danzo turns out to be Madara, it will only be for the sake of using it as a plot twist. Or for Kishi to be able to sleep at night.

[Barumonk]

Danzou is actually Kakashi from the future. He has come back using a variation of a summoning technique (which is entirely possible, he knows 1,000 techniques at least. Its plausable to assume there is a time-altering technique somewhere in there.) because something has gone horribly wrong and he needs to fix it by keeping Naruto in the village and protecting him for reasons unknown.

His left side is completely screwed up after a fight that occurred in the future, before he came back. Whatever happened to him twisted his view on 'protecting his friends' and turned him into Danzou as we seem him today: someone who would do damn near anything, no matter how underhanded, to defend the village.

I made more sense than this entire thread.

[Honoko]

My theory is that Danzou and Madara had a fight at some point in the past and Danzou was able to steal one of Madara's eyes, hence the reason for Madara's mask, as his face, I assume, will be revealed as horribly disfigured as well. It would also explain Danzou's screwed left side as Madara wouldn't go down without a fight.

Just throwing it out there =P

[itadakimasu]

dont they posess different sharingan eyes? one on the left, one on the right?

what if neither of them is madara, but each posesses one of madara's eyes? or we can go w\ the tobi / obito thing...

[12345p]

Danzou is to mandara what Darth Sidious is to Senator Palatine.
That is a very dangerous thought. Whilte I don't personally like it (I still like to think that Marada is Tobi reborn in Obito's body - - how? just use someone that has the power over life and death - PAINE), we can expand on you're comment alittle to explain how this could be so.

Dang, I'm not up on my Star Wars to explain this correcty, but I'll give it a shot.

Each has to play their part FULLY or be discovered that they are gunning for the same purpose. The Senator played his political lie to gain totaritarian control over the Senate. The same could be said for Madara being Danzou - lying about his arm and having bandaged his eye. After all, Danzou has been in a position where he's likely NOT had to challenge his Ninja skillset in a long, long time. And these arrands to get Orochimaru's research are just things to lead the reader and the village off the path of recognizing the truth.

Danzou doesn't even have to be Madara exactly. He could be a special shadow clone of Madara. The point here is that Madara has more than 1 life time with the Sharingran to acquire jitsu (something that Orochimaru was lusting after for some reason) and as such there really is no telling what the powers of him are.

I like the idea someone posted here in terms of why it was imperitive that Naturo stay in the village. Not for Naruto's own safety, or so that "Root" can keep an eye on him, it's so that Akatsuki can find him easily and claim the last of the the tailed beasts.

The other question was "Why kill the messenger frog?"
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/421/17/. . Of course it's easier to explain outcomes in retrospect, but I beleive that the action was done so that Paine would HAVE to turn the village practically upside down to discover Naruto's training location. If Paine had found him early (and quite likely would have), the village would not have been laid waste to and as such the Hidden Village of the Leaf would be in a very different state, as would the 5th Hokage.


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/455/17/
A better comparison might be:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/17/

[Sam98034]

I like Honoko's idea best so far. Maybe Danzo and Madara previously fought and both came back damaged. Danzo took his eye in the process but injured his arm. Most likely they were working together, but Danzo betrayed him. Everything would make sense with that.

Has anyone played the brothers scenario, yet? Did we ever find out if Madara's brother died? What if Danzo and Tobi are brothers, each sharing an eye?

Btw, this is completely off subject, but why on Earth did Madara help annihilate the Uchihas? Why would he care if they rebelled? Itachi wanted peace when his clan was brooding for war, so he did what he did. But wouldn't Madara want the coup to happen so that the Uchihas could be in charge?

[Abdula]

The other question was "Why kill the messenger frog?"
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/421/17/. . Of course it's easier to explain outcomes in retrospect, but I beleive that the action was done so that Paine would HAVE to turn the village practically upside down to discover Naruto's training location. If Paine had found him early (and quite likely would have), the village would not have been laid waste to and as such the Hidden Village of the Leaf would be in a very different state, as would the 5th Hokage.


A better comparison might be:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/17/
Uh, Pain had already found out where Naruto was before he destroyed the village. He leveled the village because Tsunade pissed him off and he decided to teach her a lesson.


Most likely they were working together, but Danzo betrayed him. Everything would make sense with that.
Yeah someone threw that theory out there before.

Has anyone played the brothers scenario, yet? Did we ever find out if Madara's brother died? What if Danzo and Tobi are brothers, each sharing an eye?
Yes someone played the brothers scenario. Yes Madara's brother died.


Btw, this is completely off subject, but why on Earth did Madara help annihilate the Uchihas? Why would he care if they rebelled? Itachi wanted peace when his clan was brooding for war, so he did what he did. But wouldn't Madara want the coup to happen so that the Uchihas could be in charge?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/09/

[Sam98034]

Thanks for the reply Abdula. I get how Madara felt betrayed by his clan, but it doesn't seem that something like that would make Madara want to kill them all. The village didn't kill his parents, they just said "No, we don't want you as leader. We think you're shady." And also, it seems like they were all coming around to Madara's point of view. They figured they were being treated like 2nd class citizens, and they were.So now that the Uchiha finally agreed with him, he killed them?

The Madara character just confuses me. His goal was to strengthen his clan, then he killed them. What the heck does he have to live for now? The only thing he can do is go be a leader of someone elses clan.

[Abdula]

Actually it does make sense if you include this part.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/02/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/06/

Madara's brother had apparently just agreed to give Madara his eyes just for the sake of becoming strong enough to protect Uchiha and then the Uchiha agreed to a peace treaty with their greatest rival. Then when Hashirama was chosen as Hokage and Madara opposed him, instead of acknowledging all that Madara had done for the Uchiha and supporting him, they chastised him for the very actions he had taken to protect them. All things considered it's had to imagine anyone not feeling betrayed in such a situation, because it meant that everything he had done had been for nothing and in effect his brother had given his eyes and his life for nothing.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/13/
Yeah the Uchiha started to come around to Madara's point of view but it was only after Madara was defeated and the Konoha Military Police Force was formed that the Uchiha began realizing that Madara may have been right about the Sengu. But as Madara said, by then Uchiha had already lost too much influence so it was too late for them to do anything.

I think Madara's story is probably some of the best writing Kishimoto has ever done. I still can't say for sure whether Madara was right about the Sengu or if it was only Madara's suspicions of the Sengu and his subsequent actions that lead to the demise of the Uchiha. Regardless of whether he is Danzo or not we know the Uchiha massacre was a direct result of the Kyuubi attack sixteen years ago which Madara was responsible for, and we know that Madara himself took part in the slaughter. But it's hard to say whether something like that wouldn't have happened eventually even without Madara pulling the strings.

Actually I can say that Madara probably has had some part in every single thing that has happened in and outside of the village since he was first defeated by Hashirama but what would be the fun in that.:p

[poopdeville]

Madara is a known liar. He is supposed to be a confusing character. That's why ditching the Madara = Danzou theory without solid evidence is foolish. It is still logically consistent that Danzou is Madara. Or not. The story hasn't told us enough to decide one way or the other.

Here are some things that are "known" about Madara:

(1) Madara gains the MS, and establishes the Uchiha training method of killing your friend for it.
(2) Madara takes his brother's eyes to gain the EMS.
(3) Madara and Hashirama fight for Konoha.
(4) At some point between (3) and (5), Madara becomes Mizukage and institutes the Uchiha training method. That much is (more-or-less) known to be true.
(5) 100 years later, Madara attacks Konoha with the Kyuubi.
(6) Madara and Itachi kill the Uchiha, on Danzou's order (though Madara just did it for the fun of it, supposedly)
(7) Tobi joins Akatsuki, captures Sanbi, helps Deidara fight Sasuke (a little).
(8) Madara reveals himself to a few people, and starts giving Pein orders, eventually orders Pein to capture Naruto.
(9) Madara almost eats an Amaterasu from Sasuke, sent by Itachi.
(10) Madara tells parts of this story (but crucially, lies about (5) and potentially others) to Sasuke.
(11) Tells Sasuke that Pein destroyed Konoha, had intended to use Rinne Tensei for his own purposes.

(6) is probably the most interesting, for the Danzou is Madara theory. How could Madara have known about the mission and shown himself to Itachi, if Madara isn't connected to Danzou somehow? This was such a top secret mission that only Danzou, Sandaime Hokage, the Advisors, and Itachi knew about it. In fact, considering that Danzou ordered it, it might have even been a Roots mission. In this part of the story, Madara says that Itachi seeked him out.

(1) is also interesting, since Roots uses the same training methods that the Uchiha and the Land of Mist used.

Here's a summary of things "known" about Danzou:

(A) Origins unknown, age approximately 70-80, fought Sandaime Hokage for the title. Hawkish diplomacy incompatible with Senju's Will of Fire.
(B) Founded his own ANBU, called Roots, which used the Uchiha training method
(C) Joins Hanzo in destroying "proto-Akatsuki", is among the first people in the world to see Gedo Mazo.
(D) Ordered the extermination of the Uchiha (which Madara was more than happy to help with!)
(E) Itachi threatens Danzou, in order to protect Sasuke. This is told to us by Madara.
(F) Sent Sai "to kill" Sasuke
(G) Killed the messenger frog to keep Naruto out of the village
(H) Doesn't help in the fight against Pein.
(I) Has a hurt arm and a Sharingan.

(C) is an interesting connection between Danzou and Nagato, since Nagato revealed the weapon that Madara now wants to Danzou and Hanzo. (D) speaks for itself. (E) Speaks for itself. This "should" have been ultra-top secret, but for some reason Madara knows all about it. (I) Speaks for itself. Danzou has a hurt arm and a Sharingan... So does Madara. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/

[XanBcoo]

It is still logically consistent that Danzou is Madara.
How can you say that? The arm and eye thing is enough on its own to throw that theory out completely.

Also it's kind of odd that Madara would sent Sasuke off to kill Madara (Danzo) in the last chapter. If the theory is true, I'd love to see Kishi write his way out of this one.

[poopdeville]

Danzou has a hurt arm and a Sharingan... So does Madara. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/03/

[XanBcoo]

Except Madara's arm was fine after the Amaterasu attack, and Danzo's right arm has always been damaged since his first appearance, way before the chapter you posted.

That's the way it seemed, at least.

[Sam98034]

Thanks again for the explanation Abdula. I'm probably like 80% on Madara now. I get how he wanted revenge, but why he would kill innocent people in the incident doesn't make complete sense to me. He went from trying to protect the village to murdering even the women and children of that village. It kind of reminds me of the old days when after defeating the enemy, they would kill the wives and children, too. So I understand how he wanted revenge, but was it even the same people that he was taking his revenge on? How much time past between the time they betrayed him and the time he got his revenge?

[RasenDori]

Wait a minute... isn't Danzou from the same generation as the 3rd and the two advisors. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that they've known him since they were children? Just throwing that out there.

[Sidnne]

A couple of things about this in chapter 456.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/456/01/
On the first page here, when Danzou is performing a jutsu, there is a four-frame focus on his hand seals in the middle of the page. That to me is significant. First, he appears to have some kind of metal contraption bolted to his arm, possibly a prosthetic. Maybe he is a cyborg?

Secondly, if I'm correct about this, the fact that he used hand seals at all is significant, because wasn't it noted earlier that Tobi/Madara used no hand seals when performing jutsus?

Just something to think about.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Danzou would have a hard time convincing everyone to kill the Uchiha clan, but not him if he really was Madara.

I am going to guess and say that Danzou was behind the Nine-Tails attack 16 years ago though. Madara claims that it wasn't him and it does seem like something he would do to try to convince everyone of how dangerous the Uchiha were.

[Shenshort]

Hi everyone, I don't think Danzou is Madara. I guess it is Madara's brother. We can see on http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/04/ the offering of the brothers' eyes. But can we be sure he was offering both of his eyes. It was Tobi telling the story. And he was problably lying to Sasuke. So Madara's brother could still be alive and ruling as Danzou/Hokage now. I supose the brothers will meet eachother on the Kage's meeting and the guessing ends.

[RasenDori]

Danzou would have a hard time convincing everyone to kill the Uchiha clan, but not him if he really was Madara.

I am going to guess and say that Danzou was behind the Nine-Tails attack 16 years ago though. Madara claims that it wasn't him and it does seem like something he would do to try to convince everyone of how dangerous the Uchiha were.

Minato already outted Madara as the culprit.

[Sidnne]

Minato already outted Madara as the culprit.

Well, not necessarily. Unfortunately, he only said "the one in the mask."

[XanBcoo]

Hi everyone, I don't think Danzou is Madara. I guess it is Madara's brother. We can see on http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/399/04/ the offering of the brothers' eyes. But can we be sure he was offering both of his eyes. It was Tobi telling the story. And he was problably lying to Sasuke. So Madara's brother could still be alive and ruling as Danzou/Hokage now. I supose the brothers will meet eachother on the Kage's meeting and the guessing ends.
On the very next page Madara's brother is shown lying dead in a coffin.

Doesn't seem like he'd have reason to lie about that, especially if he doesn't even know his brother could have survived.

Though thinking about it now, I do seriously doubt that Madara's brother gave up his eyes willingly. THAT is something he would lie about.

[The Chancellor]

Though thinking about it now, I do seriously doubt that Madara's brother gave up his eyes willingly. THAT is something he would lie about. Well I'm sure Madara was stronger than him, so it wouldn't be a problem for him to give take his eyes. Although Kishi did draw him smiling after his eyes were taken so maybe he did give them. And if he loved his fellow Uchiha, then I'm sure his dedication would show through.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

I think that his brother giving up his eyes for the greater good is possible. Look at Kimimaro, he was willing to give up his whole body and life for someone that wasnt even related to him.

[twister]

heres another theory. As we know, kakashi isnt a blood uchiha, and his sharingan is in his LEFT eye, while danzou/madara has the right eye. kakashi seems to know his way around a lot, as hes been in the anbu, he was taught by the 4th etc etc. another key point in this theory is kakashi, in the last manga, seemed like he knew that danzou didnt trust sai and almost expected the people following them. almost like he has had a past with danzou and knew what to expect? betrayal type?

[The Chancellor]

heres another theory. As we know, kakashi isnt a blood uchiha, and his sharingan is in his LEFT eye, while danzou/madara has the right eye. kakashi seems to know his way around a lot, as hes been in the anbu, he was taught by the 4th etc etc. another key point in this theory is kakashi, in the last manga, seemed like he knew that danzou didnt trust sai and almost expected the people following them. almost like he has had a past with danzou and knew what to expect? betrayal type? That actually isn't a bad theory. Because if Kakashi knew what was happening (if anything did in fact happen) then I'm sure he would Konohas version of the 'good guy' and police Danzou's actions as much as he can in order to stop him from doing something against the village to begin with.

[XanBcoo]

heres another theory. As we know, kakashi isnt a blood uchiha, and his sharingan is in his LEFT eye, while danzou/madara has the right eye. kakashi seems to know his way around a lot, as hes been in the anbu, he was taught by the 4th etc etc. another key point in this theory is kakashi, in the last manga, seemed like he knew that danzou didnt trust sai and almost expected the people following them. almost like he has had a past with danzou and knew what to expect? betrayal type?
That's not so much a theory as it is stating random, known facts. I mean, basically no one in Konoha trusts Danzo right now, and it's been stating many times by other characters that he's manipulative and a war-monger. He's been around since at least the 3rd Hokage's reign, so everyone is familiar with him (except we, the audience, who were only recently introduced to him). I don't really understand what the point you're trying to make is.

[The Chancellor]

That's not so much a theory as it is stating random, known facts. I mean, basically no one in Konoha trusts Danzo right now, and it's been stating many times by other characters that he's manipulative and a war-monger That's actually what I've wanted to say for a while on this subject. Everyone thinks that he cares so much for Konoha and that he wants the best for it. As hokage he won't be good for it. He used akatsuki for his own plans against the village, beautifully I might add, but it wasn't in konohas best interests. They injured Tsunade and opened up the spot for him to step in and take her spot. He's not good news for the village. And besides sending him away so that Pain would tear the village a new one looking for him, we still don't know why he kept Naruto out of the village with the killing of the messenger frog with the goggles. Of course it was part of his grand plan, but why? We still don't know. Can't be good though.

Edit:
Hopefully Kakashi and the others will see through this at the meeting and when the voting happens just out vote against him. By the way am I the only one who is surprised that Danzo can make hand seals with over 10-15+ lbs of metal and screws in his arm? I think that's kind of bs

[twister]

i bet in "the ninja world" all the old men are actually really fit and can do most of the things that they could years before, maybe not as fast, but hey u saw the 4th throwin out hand signs and doin crazy stuff, plus if u add in the sharingan, danzo can do about anything haha

[The Chancellor]

but hey u saw the 4th throwin out hand signs and doin crazy stuff Yeah that's the fourth was in his early to mid 20's. I think you mean the third man. And yeah I guess, but, he had like a ton weight worth of metal on his arm. Even someone younger would have issues with that.

[ForteCross]

when did we saw that danzo has an automail?

[The Chancellor]

when did we saw that danzo has an automail?

First page of this newest chapter. And here:

http://media2.onemanga.com/mangas/00000004/000196892/17.jpg

Bottom pic of him

[poopdeville]

A couple of things about this in chapter 456.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/456/01/
On the first page here, when Danzou is performing a jutsu, there is a four-frame focus on his hand seals in the middle of the page. That to me is significant. First, he appears to have some kind of metal contraption bolted to his arm, possibly a prosthetic. Maybe he is a cyborg?


Good catch. That's a very interesting bolt.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/280/19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/281/15/

It almost looks like there is one on his right wrist in the second page, when he holds Deidara's arm. (Admittedly, that bold is not so clear)

[Sidnne]

Good catch. That's a very interesting bolt.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/280/19/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/281/15/

It almost looks like there is one on his right wrist in the second page, when he holds Deidara's arm. (Admittedly, that bold is not so clear)

Tobi is wearing scaled plate armor in those pics, thats what the bolts showing there are from.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/281/16/
you can see it a little more clearly from the front angle shots on that page. In the middle frame you can see the shoulder armor hanging down over his arms, and in the bottom left frame you can see the hip armor flailed out to the sides when he is on the ground.

Oh, and the one you said looks like a bolt in his wrist is actually Deidara's fingernail :P

[poopdeville]

Tobi is wearing scaled plate armor in those pics, thats what the bolts showing there are from.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/281/16/
you can see it a little more clearly from the front angle shots on that page. In the middle frame you can see the shoulder armor hanging down over his arms, and in the bottom left frame you can see the hip armor flailed out to the sides when he is on the ground.

Oh, and the one you said looks like a bolt in his wrist is actually Deidara's fingernail :P

Yeah, I think you're right.

[sortaisle]

I think the answer is that Danzou is Obito Uchiha from the young Kakashi story. It makes sense. Obito was crushed on his right side. He gave Kakashi his left sharingan. He won't kill Sasuke because they're related. Thoughts?

[Abdula]

No It doesn't make sense. Danzo is too old to be Obito, Danzo already gave the go ahead to kill Sasuke and Obito is dead.

[poopdeville]

Yeah, that really makes no sense.

At least Danzou = Madara has the strength that they look alike, have similar politics and methods, and similar goals, and similar skills and strengths.

[sortaisle]

No It doesn't make sense. Danzo is too old to be Obito, Danzo already gave the go ahead to kill Sasuke and Obito is dead.

Obito is as old as Kakashi. Has anyone said how old Danzou is? I still think it's possible. The makers of Naruto has a thing for bringing people back to life. I don't think Danzou is Madara. Way to many people know Madara and Danzou stands around in public from time to time. People would make the connection. No one knows what Obito would look like and being crushed by rocks would definitely age your appearance. I think it would be intriguing. And Obito was the black sheep of the Uchiha so if anyone wants the Uchiha's destroyed it would be him.

[poopdeville]

Obito is as old as Kakashi. Has anyone said how old Danzou is? I still think it's possible....And Obito was the black sheep of the Uchiha so if anyone wants the Uchiha's destroyed it would be him.

Danzou is way older than Obito. Danzou is about the same age as the Third Hokage, who taught Kakashi's teacher's teacher.

If any Uchiha wanted the Uchiha destroyed, it was Madara. He freely participated in their destruction.

[Abdula]

Danzo is from the Third's generation, he is 72 years old.

[Sidnne]

have similar politics and methods, and similar goals, and similar skills and strengths.

Such as?

[poopdeville]

Similar politics: Destruction of the Uchiha clan. Military domination over diplomacy and economic domination.

Similar methods: All of Roots' methods, including their training. Conniving and backstabbing as a way of life. Working with common warlords for short-term gain. Similarly, stirring up regional conflict for short-term gain. For example, when Danzou worked with Hanzo and discovered Nagato. Kills allies to further own purpose.

Similar goals: Destruction of the Uchiha and Senju, control over Konoha, World Domination.

Similar skills and strengths: Sharingan, masterful control of information and manipulation. Parts of the "methods" section fits here too.

Other similar characteristics: Utterly untrustworthy.

[Sidnne]

Similar politics: Destruction of the Uchiha clan.
This isn't really politics, but even if both do/did want the destruction of the Uchiha clan, it seems to be for different reasons.


Military domination over diplomacy and economic domination.
This was Pein's politics, not Madara's. Nothing has been said about any economic goals regarding Danzou.


Similar methods: All of Roots' methods, including their training. All of what Root's methods? Secrecy? They are ninjas.


Conniving and backstabbing as a way of life.
This applies to the entire ninja world.


Working with common warlords for short-term gain. Similarly, stirring up regional conflict for short-term gain.
Maybe. but you would have to prove that the gains are the same for both. Working with "warlords" and stirring up regional conflict seems as though it could be a common practice in the ninja world. The Leaf and Sand working together could be seen as "working with common warlords for short-term gain" also, couldn't it?


For example, when Danzou worked with Hanzo and discovered Nagato.
Danzou wasn't present when Hanzo fought Nagato.


Kills allies to further own purpose.
Which of their allies has either of them killed so far?


Similar goals: Destruction of the Uchiha and Senju,
Ok, reasonable enough. But couldn't that mean that are just working together to achieve a common goal?


control over Konoha, World Domination.
Madara never expressed wanting to control Konoha. And he never said anything about world domination; that was also Pein's goal.


Similar skills and strengths: Sharingan,
Sharingan isn't a skill. If we had seen them use the same techniques, then I'd be more inclined to believe this.


masterful control of information and manipulation.
Again, ninjas. This could apply to nearly ANY of the characters in the manga. And its also a very general statement. Use of information and manipulation doesn't matter, its how its used and to what end that is important, and so far the two have had very different means to this method. Danzou seems to be very quiet about everything, secretive, and simply doesn't let people in on things. Madara is more outspoken and gives information, even if its false, in order to play on people's emotions to get them to react.


Other similar characteristics: Utterly untrustworthy.

They appear as villains... how many villains are trustworthy?


I'm not trying to say that everything about this is wrong. I'm just trying to point out that it all seems very general and could be applied to many characters and situations. It shouldn't be used to draw any conclusions just because you may want to believe a theory.

[poopdeville]

This isn't really politics...


Of course it is. What else would you call a power struggle between the Third Hokage and Danzou over the fate of the Uchiha?



All of what Root's methods? Secrecy? They are ninjas.


Specifically, killing your friend as a training method, like Roots does and the Uchiha did, and the Mist Village did until Zabuza killed all the students one year. Heck, even the Itachi/Sasuke fight was a set up for Sasuke to gain the MS in essentially this way.

There are others, but they are pretty generic ninja practices. The majority of the non-generic similarities are actually similarities between Danzou's and Madara's leadership.



Maybe. but you would have to prove that the gains are the same for both. Working with "warlords" and stirring up regional conflict seems as though it could be a common practice in the ninja world. The Leaf and Sand working together could be seen as "working with common warlords for short-term gain" also, couldn't it?


A warlord is "A military commander exercising civil power in a region, whether in nominal allegiance to the national government or in defiance of it."

I don't see Gaara as a common warlord. Konoha and the Sand seem to give more than just nominal allegiance to their Feudal Lords. Indeed, the Land of Fire's Feudal Lord picks Konoha's leadership. Moreover, Konoha's and the Sand's allegiance to each other seemed to be heading toward long term peace, as it is now.

On the other hand, Danzou has teamed up with Hanzo, the leader of an unaffiliated and poor ninja village in order to gain support to become Hokage. And Madara has teamed up with Pein, Hanzo's replacement. And lots of other unsavory characters. All that said, now that Danzou is in charge, Konoha probably isn't loyal to the Feudal Lord either. Danzou is a warlord, too, where the Third was not.



Danzou wasn't present when Hanzo fought Nagato.


I was under the impression that Danzou was there, since he's got his sword on in that page below. And Nagato seems to know all about Danzou's role. But you could be right. Perhaps Nagato beat that information out of Hanzo during the second fight. Danzou probably would have worn his Roots ANBU mask anyway, so it doesn't make much sense for Nagato to know about him based on his first fight with Hanzo.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/446/13/



Which of their allies has either of them killed so far?


Danzou was ready to kill off Anko. Danzou killed off the frog. Depending on who you listen to, Madara plucked his brother's eye out (or his brother gave it to him). Madara admitted to killing his friend to gain the MS, and said that he killed his brother.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/18/



Ok, reasonable enough. But couldn't that mean that are just working together to achieve a common goal?


Sure, it could.



Madara never expressed wanting to control Konoha. And he never said anything about world domination; that was also Pein's goal.


I have to disagree with you there. Madara definitely expressed interest in controlling Konoha. That's why he fought Hashirama in the first place. The Senju and the Uchiha were supposedly the world's strongest ninja clans, and a victory over the Senju would have meant ninja supremacy. Ninja supremacy is close enough to world domination, especially if you're an invincible immortal.

On the other hand, Madara has tried to "destroy Konoha" since he left. But what does that mean? Presumably, it means destroying Konoha's Senju leadership, not the village's buildings or even ninjas. If destroying the buildings was enough, he would have been satisfied by sending Pein to the village. He wouldn't need the bijuu. Heck, if destroying all the NINJAS was enough, he could have just told Pein to blow Konoha up, and not resurrect everybody.


Again, ninjas. This could apply to nearly ANY of the characters in the manga. And its also a very general statement. Use of information and manipulation doesn't matter, its how its used and to what end that is important, and so far the two have had very different means to this method. Danzou seems to be very quiet about everything, secretive, and simply doesn't let people in on things. Madara is more outspoken and gives information, even if its false, in order to play on people's emotions to get them to react.


Fair enough.

That is an interesting observation about their different methods. (Quiet versus lying)


I'm not trying to say that everything about this is wrong. I'm just trying to point out that it all seems very general and could be applied to many characters and situations. It shouldn't be used to draw any conclusions just because you may want to believe a theory.

Yes, that is fair enough. I am saying that when you combine all these general informations that could in isolation apply to many characters to TWO SPECIFIC characters who happen to look alike and share some pretty specific powers and politics and history, you have a plausible theory. That doesn't mean the theory is right. I know that. There are many plausible theories, and they can't all be right.

[The Chancellor]

This applies to the entire ninja world.


This is only one I have a problem with. Unless betrayed, or defense, I don't think half of the Konoha ninja would back stab murder. Unless it was for the good of the village.

[Sidnne]

I was under the impression that Danzou was there, since he's got his sword on in that page below. And Nagato seems to know all about Danzou's role. But you could be right. Perhaps Nagato beat that information out of Hanzo during the second fight. Danzou probably would have worn his Roots ANBU mask anyway, so it doesn't make much sense for Nagato to know about him based on his first fight with Hanzo.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/446/13/


Danzou isn't there during that battle. I'm not sure what you would call that style reflection, but if you picture it animated, it would be a scene where someone's name is mentioned and you see that person's image fade in or out as the teller or listener pictures the person. Thats why that frame has a black background like that and isn't out in the rain like the other frames.


This is only one I have a problem with. Unless betrayed, or defense, I don't think half of the Konoha ninja would back stab murder. Unless it was for the good of the village.

Thats because Konoha is painted as the good guys in the story. But isn't their history full of this? and isn't it what this new generation is trying to change?

[isso]

But why can't Danzou just be Danzou? Doing his thing.
Cuz Danzou is old, uses a cane when he walks, had his arm injured fighting for title of hokage and ost his right eye. Hence a transplantion was needed and which eye is more suitable then the sharingan?

But Tobi seems to be younger, and has the same hair style as Obito had (when if) he was crushed. Couldn't it be that Zetsu came to devour his body but found Obito alive but severly injured. In someway healed him and that's why Tobi has the mask displaying only his right eye which was not transplanted. Tobi / Obito should be at the same age as Kakashi and from what I've read and seen that is most probable from the movement of Tobi.

It might be a plot twister this. Or perhaps it's just as easy as Obito is dead, Danzou is danzou and Tobi is Madara. Perhaps Tobi / Madara only use the mask as a disguise and therefore have two sharigan eyes / EMS.

Well it's interesting to see what lays within the future of Naruto, exciting indeed. I remember the discussion of Minato being Pain a while back, that wasn't the case, clearly. So lookin forward to getting some answers!!! :p

[Sidnne]

But why can't Danzou just be Danzou? Doing his thing.
Cuz Danzou is old, uses a cane when he walks, had his arm injured fighting for title of hokage and ost his right eye. Hence a transplantion was needed and which eye is more suitable then the sharingan?

But Tobi seems to be younger, and has the same hair style as Obito had (when if) he was crushed. Couldn't it be that Zetsu came to devour his body but found Obito alive but severly injured. In someway healed him and that's why Tobi has the mask displaying only his right eye which was not transplanted. Tobi / Obito should be at the same age as Kakashi and from what I've read and seen that is most probable from the movement of Tobi.

It might be a plot twister this. Or perhaps it's just as easy as Obito is dead, Danzou is danzou and Tobi is Madara. Perhaps Tobi / Madara only use the mask as a disguise and therefore have two sharigan eyes / EMS.

Well it's interesting to see what lays within the future of Naruto, exciting indeed. I remember the discussion of Minato being Pain a while back, that wasn't the case, clearly. So lookin forward to getting some answers!!! :p

Zetsu devours bodies?

[The Chancellor]

Zetsu devours bodies? Oh this old news. He's always sent into areas by either Pein or Tobi where the fight just ended to finish the body of the person who was defeated off.

[depthcharge]

Ok, in terms of genetic lines. Ideally, if you would like to maintain a Clan of Sharingan users, you would need 3-4 males that are not direct cross of 3-4 generation deep parents.
(to prevent inbred retarded genetic pools)

Firstly, I hope Itachi had a son/daughter somewhere that can actually breed.

Madara needs to have also some offspring to breed.

Plus, Tobi needs to have offspring to breed.

Then we have Sasuke, who probably isnt as motivated to "revive" his clan after his stay with Orochimaru.

Then we need Danzou to be actually a Uchiha clan missing nin's son...due to the fact that he is actually half a Uchiha, it is possible for him to have offspring that has pure Uchiha blood.

Of course all of these is hypothetical, but hey, everyone wants it to be less number of characters. While a geneticist would prefer that more genetic pool is available, considering that if these 5 people are the only surviving Uchiha bloodlines, they would make a fine breeding program for lots of small little Uchiha.

Only bad thing is no known females bloodlines!

So I just want to throw this in, Tobi is FEMALE! Plus, Itachi's offsprings are females.

[NeoCybercoin]

Perhaps Danzou is just Danzou and plucked a eye out of a dead Uchiha?

[Pastor Cookies]

Perhaps Danzou is just Danzou and plucked a eye out of a dead Uchiha?

I agree with NeoCybercoin on this one. If Kakashi can get it done than so can Danzo.

[Rikudo]

Perhaps Danzou is just Danzou and plucked a eye out of a dead Uchiha?


Like Uchiha Shusui?

[NeoCybercoin]

Well...that IS the only Uchiha left that has been named. I was originally gonna say the brother of Madara but he lost both of his eyes. But yeah Shisui was Itachi's best friend. And he killed him to get the Mangekyo Sharingan. I think Danzou stole his eye.

[Abdula]

Danzo's eye seemed to have been injured since the third great ninja war perhaps even before then and it's reasonable to assume that he has had the sharingan since then. If so, that would have been long before Itachi ever killed Shisui.

[NeoCybercoin]

Yeah but would it really be that hard for him to implant a Sharingan into an empty eye socket that has been empty for quite some years? I mean even if his other eye was damaged he could have still looted the corpse.

[Pastor Cookies]

If Danzo did implant Uchiha Shisui's right eye we'll definetly find out soon if not this weeks chapter.

[Yukimura]

Predicting is much easier if you just read the weekly spoiler threads on MH.

[Sam98034]

Wow! You guys nailed it. Impressive! Now what do you think the winning lotto numbers are going to be tomorrow?

It's become a lot more difficult to explain the Madara = Danzo debate now since Danzo's eye is accounted for. But what do you think happened to Shisui's other eye? I would place my money on Madara having the other one. And maybe the reason people seem to pass through him is because he is using the illusion technique and is not actually there. However, Ao said he can see through the illusion, so how come Neji couldn't?

[Sidnne]

However, Ao said he can see through the illusion, so how come Neji couldn't?

Ao recognized Shisui's color from having fought him before, while Neji never encountered Shisui. Plus, I don't know that Neji ever used his Byakugan on Danzou. But, that doesn't really explain the rest of the Hyuga. I suppose you could argue that Danzou has kept himself well hidden.

[RasenDori]

And when's the last time Neji and Danzou were in the same room? So anyway... did this chapter just kill the Danzou Madara theory?

[Sam98034]

Ao recognized Shisui's color from having fought him before, while Neji never encountered Shisui. Plus, I don't know that Neji ever used his Byakugan on Danzou. But, that doesn't really explain the rest of the Hyuga. I suppose you could argue that Danzou has kept himself well hidden.

I'm talking about how Ao saw through the illusion placed on the 4th Mizukage (I assume by Danzo or Madara). If Madara also had one of Shisue's eyes, it would explain why people constantly pass through him; however, Neji used Byakugan on Tobi but did not see through any illusion.

[Sidnne]

I'm talking about how Ao saw through the illusion placed on the 4th Mizukage (I assume by Danzo or Madara). If Madara also had one of Shisue's eyes, it would explain why people constantly pass through him; however, Neji used Byakugan on Tobi but did not see through any illusion.


Then maybe Madara doesn't have one of Shisui's eyes?

[Sam98034]

Then maybe Madara doesn't have one of Shisui's eyes?
Usually, a person in this forum makes up some theories and other people criticize the weak points that he or she has overlooked. While other people generally just show the strength of their arguments, I basically do all the work for you by coming up with a theory and then showing its weaknesses. I'm the creative guy that comes up with neat theories, and I'm also the smart guy who points out why it may not be true. In this way, I can both come up with a theory and contradict myself. It's win, win! <insert sarcasm>

[poopdeville]

Danzo's eye seemed to have been injured since the third great ninja war perhaps even before then and it's reasonable to assume that he has had the sharingan since then. If so, that would have been long before Itachi ever killed Shisui.

It looks like Madara's eye has the same kind of injury. Notice the dark sclera.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/17/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/455/17/

They also have the same tomoi pattern, though it does look like a "generic" non-MS sharingan in all the pics.

[XanBcoo]

did this chapter just kill the Danzou Madara theory?
Yes.

They also have the same tomoi pattern, though it does look like a "generic" non-MS sharingan in all the pics.
Yes.

[The Chancellor]

I'm actually relieved that he isn't Madara. I know I was a hard ass about this for a long time, but this is nice to see that he stole an Uchihas eye. Plus, we can finally put the theory to rest. We don't really know whats up with the byakugan though, and who he could have gotten it from bothers me now. Because now we need to find out about Ao's past and see when he fought a hyuuga member.

[NeoCybercoin]

I am awesome for predicting that =D

Anyway, perhaps Madara IS some kind of illusion and that the real one is somewhere else like Pein did. Would explain how he could just let attacks phase through him,teleport and fly.

The fact that Ao has a Byakugan doesn't have to have some kind of deeper meaning. But it would have to be someone from the main branch or else the Byakugan would be sealed away. And considering the fact that the Hyuuga are a big clan...he could have gotten that eye from any nameless main branch Hyuuga.

( Who the hell neg repped me for guessing it right? I don't even read spoilers )

[Death BOO Z]

Anyway, perhaps Madara IS some kind of illusion and that the real one is somewhere else like Pein did. Would explain how he could just let attacks phase through him,teleport and fly.



Or maybe, it's the sharingan's power?
Kakashi has a similar power (time-space blasting) but he applies it to other,while madara applies it to himself. right eye, left eye.

you know, the entire obito-tobi-madare thing? I still think it's that.

[unandpw]

It looks like Madara's eye has the same kind of injury. Notice the dark sclera.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/395/17/

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/455/17/

That's only because he's in a dark room. Sasuke's eyes are like that as well in those first two links. And the mask is shadowing it as well.

[poopdeville]

No, Sasuke's eyes look very different in the first two links. The whites of his eyes are... white.

[The Chancellor]

The fact that Ao has a Byakugan doesn't have to have some kind of deeper meaning. Yes but he just randomly has it. Are we supposed to assume from now on that anyone with an eye patch has some powerful eye technique under there? All I want is an explanation of how he got it. Kishi had enough respect to show us who Danzo got the eye from, the least he can do is a little back story or side note on which hyuuga and when Ao was fighting him. When did a hyuuga even ever go to the mist village? I don't recall that.

[NeoCybercoin]

Well the clan is fairly big so it wouldnt have to be told in the manga. I mean they don't state every single missions every ninja in Konoha does do they? Hyuuga go out on missions just as normal ninja's and can also get killed. And looted it seems.

[depthcharge]

What??? No explanation needed. People can clone a cow, sheep, dog, goat, piece of liver, bone marrow... therefore with ninjutsu, cloning an eye is easy.

Everyone should be acceptable with the fact that cloning or even breeding programs is possible. After all, ninjas cant possible be trained to not want sex....Just look at Sakura, from young she has been wanting to find a soulmate.
And In times of war, people mate more because of the instinct of survival. Please dont be surprise to find hidden villages in other countries with pool of Bykugan or even sharingan.

[Sam98034]

What??? No explanation needed. People can clone a cow, sheep, dog, goat, piece of liver, bone marrow... therefore with ninjutsu, cloning an eye is easy.

Everyone should be acceptable with the fact that cloning or even breeding programs is possible. After all, ninjas cant possible be trained to not want sex....Just look at Sakura, from young she has been wanting to find a soulmate.
And In times of war, people mate more because of the instinct of survival. Please dont be surprise to find hidden villages in other countries with pool of Bykugan or even sharingan.

No, a sex farm for Sharingan and Byakugan would not in the least surprise anyone reading this manga. I thought it was pretty obvious this is probably going on.

[Pastor Cookies]

Based of the last chapter I'm starting to believe that Madara and Danzo are two people cut from the same clothe. I'm starting to believe that instead of it being Danzo=Madara its more like Danzo/Madara just like the link that Kami and Piccolo had in common but when it comes to their bodies there are the polar opposites of each other. Madara's left arm could be artifical seeming that he has bolts running up through his whole left arm. Danzo has Uchiha Shisui's arm grafted unto his body.

Both ninjas have the sharingan in their right eye. Both could have split Uchiha Shisui's eyes among themselves...one for Madara and one for Danzo. Madara could have lost one of his eyes when he fought against the first hokage Hashirama. The major difference is that Madara can tap into Danzo consciousness but Danzo cannot do the same because he has no idea he is apart of Madara. If Danzo is a clone of Madara he would have created Danzo around the time that the leaf village was first formed. Danzo seems to be alittle bit younger than the third so he could have been implanted as a clone of Madara as an infant and raised by Konoha ninja. We all know that Danzo and Madara methods of raising elite ninja are almost identical...the killing of the emotions and the strong suvive the weak die type training.

The big difference between the two is that Madara whats to destroy Konoha and Madara whats to protect it. This is the same deal with Kami and Piccolo. With the influnce of the Hidden Leaf Danzo would naturally become a protector while Madara keeps his same principles. Danzo would be the perfect spy for Madara without even knowing it because he doesn't even know he is a clone of Madara. Madara would benefit greatly from Danzo becoming the Hokage because he would know all of Konoha major plans and tactics...

[depthcharge]

Sounds like Voldermort and his horcruxes. There is much evil in the world.

[skolapper]

First to YellowFlash, I completely agree with the "will of fire" argument, altought i tought that the will of fire was tought to every Konoha ninja, and i also think its a pretty vague expression.

Akamaru: Ofcourse putting Danzou in charge would lead Konoha to beeing more alone, but im still not sure what would happen when Akatsuki go away, if there was this change to a more peaceful world, it would be pretty hard to make the ninja cities live.

i also agree that it wouldve been pretty hard to stop Madara. But im drawing some lines between Saskue and Orochimaru. With so many similarites beeing drawn between them, i think the only thing Konoha should do is to kill him talking from a rational point of view, not as the Manga reader, where i wouldve loved to see Sasuke team up with Konoha, unless he will just keep gathering up force. I also think its nice to watch to the Lightning country, who has a pretty military structure with a strong leader as i think Danzou would turn up to be and they have no member in the Akatsuki. This either means they have very weak missing-nins not to likely, or that they actually have control over their ninjas and hunt them down if they run away.

Vengeance: I completely agree, I had this thought up in my head before i read the newest spoiler, and was really dissapointed in him trying to use genjutsu infront of 12 clearly powerful ninjas 4 Kages their 2 assosiates
I really hope Danzou gets a more humane character, in the lines of we seeing his visions for the best possible Konoha.

[Sidnne]

This thread hasn't been posted in in a month. Let it die.