Spice and Wolf II

[Buffalobiian]

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8765/18701.jpg

Alternative title: Ōkami to Kōshinryō II (Japanese), 狼と香辛料Ⅱ (Japanese)

Genre: Adventure, Fantasy, Goddesses, Juujin, Seinen

Plot Summary:

Craft Lawrence is a traveling merchant, hauling all sorts of trade goods to various places on his horse-drawn cart.

One day, after a brief stop in the village of Pasroe, he discovered a young woman who had snuck aboard his cart. She named herself Horo, wolf goddess who watches over the harvest of wheat. Indeed, she does sport a pair of wolf's ears and a wolf's tail.

Lawrence, despite his skepticism, agrees to travel with her to her homeland, Yoitsu, a place far to the north. Together, the pair overcame the travails that confronted them in the city of Passio, and then again in Rubinhagen. As a result, they came to understand each other better, and the bond between them deepened.

Now, the pair, in search of information regarding the whereabouts of Yoitsu, are approaching the town of Kumerson just as a festival gets underway. What adventures await the pair? -AniDB

Links: Official Site (http://www.spicy-wolf.com/), ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10269), AniDB (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=6169), AnimeNFO (http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,4469,tsktzo,okami_to_koshin.html)

[Mazui]_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_01_[58252B7C].mkv (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=74121)

[Kraco]

I'm pretty sure we already had a thread for Spice and Wolf. Oh, well, anyway, I'll be waiting for a sub from a reputable group. I don't want to lose any economics lessons due to dodgy translations.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm pretty sure we already had a thread for Spice and Wolf. Oh, well, anyway, I'll be waiting for a sub from a reputable group. I don't want to lose any economics lessons due to dodgy translations.

I was half-way through typing a post in the previous thread when I saw it listed as a sequel to S&W at ANN rather than a second season, so I opted for a second thread instead.

BSS still has Horo's curvy figure on their main page, so hopefully they'll free up some time for this as well.

edit: current subbing lineup is - Mazui, BSS, Frostii, ASR:Kurou, Nire

[Lucifus]

Horo!! <3

Yay, they're back. Preferred the old opening, but its bound to a fun sequel.

[shinta|hikari]

I'm glad the relationship between the two seem to be developing. They even make conversation out of how it has developed in this episode. The first scene seems to indicate a choice that Holo will have to make in the future, and I hope it does come. It would suck if Yoitsu is gone and Holo will simply get stuck with Lawrence without having to sacrifice anything in the end.

[Buffalobiian]

Mazui - Episode 2 (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_02_1FA0ED79.mkv.torrent)

[Kraco]

BSS's site news tells they aren't subbing Spice and Wolf II... I wonder what group I'm supposed to look forward to now. It's starting to seem like no real one will have anything to do with this. Quite astonishing considering the first season was of pretty high quality and moderately popular.

[shinta|hikari]

Maybe it's because of the difficulty in translating the business talk. Even I have trouble trying to completely understand what they are saying without the subs when they start discussing trade. Still, I would have thought that this series is worth the trouble (because of Holo).

For those who watch the Mazui subs, are they decent?

[Oniken]

Yeh Mazui's subs are good, have no problems with them at all.

[Kraco]

I watched the two episodes out by Mazui and they actually were easily watchable. No problems. Jolly good, because it was already greatly bothering me I couldn't start to watch the show.

The relationship between those two is still exceedingly awkward. Neither really says what they want to say: Horo masks it under playfulness and Lawrence simply can't say anything yet gets time after time alarmed by Horo's jokes. For Lawrence it's obviously a very difficult situation as he plans to help Horo reach her village, yet doing so might mean a separation from her.

What's more interesting is the detail Horo has told oft enough there's no need to hurry, but Lawrence still seems to be wasting no time. I wonder if the uncertainty tortures him so much that he plans to find the place as soon as possible and force Horo to make a decision for good.

[Buffalobiian]

It really is strange how he's trying to find that village even more so than Horo. You'd think the more north you head, the easier it would be to acquire local legends, so there really was no hurry to seek it out at this stage.

The Moon-Hunting Bear may also indicate another transforming creature is to come.

The two's relationship, though awkward (because I can't think of another term right now), is one that's still got room for development, but doesn't start from scratch as if ignoring the entire first series. Mutually accepting themselves as a pair without actually saying "I love you" makes the chemistry all the more sweet but fun.

Not unlike C.C. and Lelouch's relationship at all.

I had a nice chuckle when Lawrence demanded for Horo's "hand" warmer. :p

[shinta|hikari]

I really don't see the problem in Holo's situation. She can simply live with Lawrence after they find her hometown, and stay with him until he dies. Then she can go back to her kind.

The only issue I can see is that she may be afraid of being too attached to Lawrence that his death will scar her too deeply.

[Board of Command]

[SFW] Spice and Wolf II - 01 (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=75522)
[SFW] Spice and Wolf II - 02 (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=75864)

These subs are supposedly better than Mazui's. I haven't watched either so I can't say from experience. For what it's worth, I'm in SFW now and I might be doing the editing for this series later.

[Buffalobiian]

Haven't had time to check out SFW's releases yet, but here's:

Mazui - Episode 3 (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_03_8EE93624.mkv.torrent)

[shinta|hikari]

Fantastic episode.

I never thought Holo would lose herself in such a manner. I can't really blame Lawrence for not being able to say anything back, because for one thing, he knows that Holo doesn't really mean those things, and for another, he was just so shocked at what is unfolding in front of him (including Holo's legs, apparently).

The preview shows that arrogant kid and Holo closing in for a kiss. I wonder if Holo decides to leave Lawrence because of her embarrassment for losing herself? I really doubt she believes the first few statements she gave herself during her confrontation with Lawrence.

[Lucifus]

Wicked crazy episode. Wickerd crazy season.

Man, watching this nearly gave me a heart attack. Haha, great reactions all around.:D

[Buffalobiian]

Wicked crazy episode. Wickerd crazy season.

Man, watching this nearly gave me a heart attack. Haha, great reactions all around.:D

It made me feel mushy inside. Just like Lawrence, Horo's words just made the possibility (and probability) of her leaving for the kid very, very real.

She mightn't really believe all the things she said, but that doesn't mean she'll be fine the next morning neither.

Right now, Horo is feeling insecure. She no longer has a home. Her partner's been hiding these facts from her. She believes he's trying to lose her somewhere. She feels betrayed, probably just like how she felt when the other town she helped turned on her.

She doesn't believe she needs someone she loves. Just someone who won't betray her. That's where the kid comes in.

[shinta|hikari]

That would be a pretty stupid decision for her to make. I would understand if she left Lawrence because of embarrassment, but if she actually felt "betrayed," it would be simply foolish. Lawrence has been nothing but sincere with her, and she should know by now that even if Lawrence is smart, he is not smart (or evil) enough to manage all of the things she accuses him of. Numerous events simply prove otherwise.

Right now, I feel for Lawrence more. Holo has the right to be upset, but so does Lawrence, yet he can't even do so because of Holo's attacks. If he cared for Holo as much as I think he does, all of those words must have really hurt him. If she leaves him for that crappy kid for a dumb reason like "He won't betray me unlike Lawrence." (for god's sake, the kid doesn't even know she has wolf ears and a tail, or worse, her true form), that would really disappoint me.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm totally with Lawrence on this one too. My main point however, was more about outlining how Horo is probably feeling right now, and possibly for a good while afterwards.

It was more of a response to "Horo doesn't really mean those things."

Given how hurt Horo is, I don't think she'll get over it with a good night's sleep. With the feeling of insecurity still lingering, it makes her vulnerable for falling with someone who she thinks loves her unconditionally.

A kid he might be, but Amarty is certainly portrayed as being a much better merchant than Lawrence.

And good merchants rarely waste opportunities.

You brought up a point I didn't consider before though, that Amarty doesn't know Horo's true identity.

Then remember their first meeting where Amarty reveals he's a believer.

Of the Church.

[shinta|hikari]

Plus, Amarty seems to have fallen in love with a fake version of Holo. She is simply not who Amarty thinks she is, Wolf God or not. He would probably be shocked when he finds out how high maintenance Holo can be, with the drinking, and the eating, and the teasing, and the clean up (after she gets drunk, and during hangovers) and the drinking, and the drinking... A maiden she is not. That is what makes her so great though.

[Buffalobiian]

I sampled SFW's episode 02, and I have to say, neither SFW or Mazui stood out as being better or worse than the other.

On interesting difference (and perhaps the only significant one I picked up) was at Episode 02 - 15:14

------------------------------------
Mazui: She was only interested in unaltered tales, not modified ones from the Church's influence.

SFW: She tells the original tales, and doesn't alter them under the Church's influence.
------------------------------------

It'd be interesting to know which one, if either, is more correct, as it creates a subtle difference between her seeking the truth and preserving the truth.

Other comments I left out before:

1) Horo's red eyes - those were really powerful this episode, very effectively portraying Horo's unstable state.

2) Right before Lawrence left, Horo said "Sorry".

That makes things lean a bit more towards Shinta's line of thought, that she'd come to herself relatively soon.

[shinta|hikari]

The Mazui one is correct.

[KrayZ33]

would someone care to explain the scene with the letter, did I miss something in the last ep? Is her hometown destroyed? what happened to it

was it explained already or is this information included in the letter we didn't saw (yet) and Horo made her own conclusions about lawrence etc. because of it?

I mean it's a bit confusing, Lawrence didn't open the letter before he gave it to horo, yet she acts like he knows whats in it.

[animus]

Because she opened it herself and read it?

[David75]

would someone care to explain the scene with the letter, did I miss something in the last ep? Is her hometown destroyed? what happened to it

was it explained already or is this information included in the letter we didn't saw (yet) and Horo made her own conclusions about lawrence etc. because of it?

I mean it's a bit confusing, Lawrence didn't open the letter before he gave it to horo, yet she acts like he knows whats in it.

Lawrence remembered in the episodes before an old tale he was told when he was a kid about the Yoitsu village being destroyed or that it dissapeared.
He got that confirmed by the "witch".
He didn't know what to do with that piece of information, he probably should have told Horo long ago, but wasn't strong enough to chose and ends up in a mess.

On the other hand, I think Horo is a bit hard on him and I suspect her to know, deep inside, something is wrong about her home village... And she probably vented her fears on him through her anger.

[KrayZ33]

Lawrence remembered in the episodes before an old tale he was told when he was a kid about the Yoitsu village being destroyed or that it dissapeared.
He got that confirmed by the "witch".

ahh... rewatched ep2..

I didn't remember the witch's story fully.. only: "there was a big wolf at the town of Renose (or so) which came out of the nearby forest and said it was on a journey to the south"


Because she opened it herself and read it?

Ya but that alone wouldn't make her think that Lawrence knew about it
I had forgotten about the "the village that got destroyed by the moon hunting bear?"-part which explains everything

I was like "Why don't you tell Horo that you didn't know about that yourself, Lawrence" until now

it's fine now, I'm not confused anymore :) sry

btw David
do you remember in which episode Lawrance said that he heard an old tale about that village being destroyed before? (or at leas what happened in that episode so I can find it)
was it back during the first series?

I'm asking because I'd like to know whether he really "knew" (or at least guessed right) about that village's fate from the very beginning or not

[David75]

Honestly, my memory is crap at times. Could be sometime in S1.

[David75]

[Mazui]​_Spice​_and​_Wolf​_II​_-​_04​_[8C0EC1F6]​.mkv 271.88MiB (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_04_8C0EC1F6.mkv.torrent)

Seems like some tv people do not like their eps to leak out in the internet.

Market getapens is starting.

[Buffalobiian]

[Nipponsei] Spice and Wolf II OP Single - Mitsu no Yoake [Arai Akino].zip (http://tracker.minglong.org/torrents/%5BNipponsei%5D%20Spice%20and%20Wolf%20II%20OP%20S ingle%20-%20Mitsu%20no%20Yoake%20%5BArai%20Akino%5D.zip.tor rent)
[Nipponsei] Spice and Wolf II ED Single - Perfect World [ROCKY CHACK].zip (http://tracker.minglong.org/torrents/%5BNipponsei%5D%20Spice%20and%20Wolf%20II%20ED%20S ingle%20-%20Perfect%20World%20%5BROCKY%20CHACK%5D.zip.torre nt)

[Buffalobiian]

Mazui - Episode 5 (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=download&tid=78981)

[shinta|hikari]

What the hell is Holo doing?

If Holo doesn't have a damn good reason for hanging out with the furry-obsessed shota and showing off to Lawrence and everyone else, I will definitely be disappointed in her as a character. Something like trying to motivate Lawrence by lighting a fire on his ass should be good enough. I hope it doesn't involve cheating/trapping the smug kid though, since I want Lawrence to win fair and square (the maximum the circumstances permit, of course). I just hope it is not something selfishly emo on Holo's part.

I can't help but feel sorry for Lawrence. None of this is really his fault, yet he has to go through so much because of it.

I just hope this doesn't end with Lawrence losing, yet Holo still choosing to be with him. That would be the worst possible conclusion, with Lawrence losing the last shred of his pride. Losing, then being pitied, is worse than death.

[Buffalobiian]

What the hell is Holo doing?

If Holo doesn't have a damn good reason for hanging out with the furry-obsessed shota and showing off to Lawrence and everyone else, I will definitely be disappointed in her as a character. Something like trying to motivate Lawrence by lighting a fire on his ass should be good enough. I hope it doesn't involve cheating/trapping the smug kid though, since I want Lawrence to win fair and square (the maximum the circumstances permit, of course). I just hope it is not something selfishly emo on Holo's part.

I can't help but feel sorry for Lawrence. None of this is really his fault, yet he has to go through so much because of it.

I just hope this doesn't end with Lawrence losing, yet Holo still choosing to be with him. That would be the worst possible conclusion, with Lawrence losing the last shred of his pride. Losing, then being pitied, is worse than death.

I'm with you on every point.

These last few episodes have been pretty tense because I can't figure out what's going on in Horo's head. I'm hoping she's not giving up on Lawrence, but everything points otherwise.


The one funny moment in this episode was rather amusing. It shines some light on Lawrence's and Horo's sleeping habits. :)

[Kraco]

I have to join your chorus in wondering what exactly Horo is doing. The rival dude doesn't even know Horo is a wolf god in reality - actually doesn't know anything at all. It'd be pretty impulsive of Horo to suddenly switch to somebody like that's side. Yet, if this is just a game to force Lawrence to take a step forward in their relationship, it's truly an exceptionally cruel game not only for Lawrence but the rival dude as well.

This doesn't really feel like something a wise wolf should be doing.

[Yukimura]

If this is all some ploy to get Lawrence to commit or something then she'll be pretty much dead to me. I'm with shinta about feeling sorry for Lawrence, though I suspect I feel a lot sorrier for him overall. He rarely seems to get any credit for anything he does and now he's running around town bending over backwards trying to win Horo back, and for what? So she can continue treating him like a doormat? I know I should just rationalize their entire relationship as 'a masochist woos a sadist by trying to be the best sub he can be' but Lawrence's demeanor when he's not with Horo always make me forget that he's ultimately a masochist. I feel like he ought to be more than willing to say goodbye if she ever decides she doesn't want to hang around anymore

Horo is a free thinking entity and if she won't be happy unless Lawrence bends over backwards for her sake then I don't think Lawrence's plan should work. Bending over backwards after the fact feels really fake to m. The behavior seems artificial, induced by Horo's actions not Lawrence's own natural desires. If he wasn't bending over backwards enough for Horo to be satisfied before she pushed him into a corner then I'd say she should just leave and seek satisfaction elsewhere. His behavior now reeks more of desperation than a truly natural desire to be around her and make her happy. If he wins his 'wager' and she accepts that as evidence that he really does want her than it would make her rather cheap and pathetic in my eyes. I don't think you should try to build a relationship based on how far one member is willing to go when they are desperate to stay with the other. Unless that one member is prepared to remain desperate for the others happiness constantly that sort of thing probably won't end well.

It seems to me that Lawrence wants Horo much more than Horo wants Lawrence. Unless he's willing to completely dedicate his life to her happiness for the rest of his days there will be nothing to keep her from pulling something like this again the next time she decides to be insecure.

If she leaves does he get back the clothes he bought her, or would Amarty's bride price cover that too?

[shinta|hikari]

The bride price covers it, I think.

While I am perplexed by what is happening, this can still be resolved if after all his effort, Lawrence gets rewarded, not only by getting Holo, but also getting even, both with the whimsical wolf, and the stupid prince wannabe.

There needs to be an episode or two about a reverse situation where Holo is the one making effort to be with Lawrence, just to make their relationship go back to being equal.

[Buffalobiian]

There needs to be an episode or two about a reverse situation where Holo is the one making effort to be with Lawrence, just to make their relationship go back to being equal.

They sort of covered that last season with Nora, except Horo's so called "effort" was acting drunk and demanding Lawrence's attention.

Another thing that crossed my mind was if Amarty lost, whether he'd use his financial/status backing at home to force Lawrence and Horo apart somehow. He's the competitive type who wants to win, and given how much he seems to like Horo, he might even submit to his family to get her.


The one funny moment in this episode was rather amusing. It shines some light on Lawrence's and Horo's sleeping habits.

I left out the other one. Lawrence asking about human/deity mating seemed kind of random. He must be planning his next course of action after he wins. :rolleyes:

[Kraco]

It just occurred to me that Horo might be really afraid and is doing this because she doesn't know what else to do. She saw that dream of choosing Lawrence but the man turning into nothing but bones. And now it's also more and more evident they might be nearing her village and thus the moment she would actually need to make that choice in practice. Maybe she's now pushing Lawrence away exactly because she loves him and doesn't want to go through the suffering of losing him inevitably later when she would love him even more.

Amarty might be nothing but a tool that suddenly presented itself to Horo for her illadviced, painful, and far too hastily constructed plan.

[Ryllharu]

They sort of covered that last season with Nora, except Horo's so called "effort" was acting drunk and demanding Lawrence's attention.
I thought they covered it less with her jealously over Lawrenece getting close to Nora, and more with Horo going back to rescue him in the icy rain. It was there more than anywhere that she faced losing him and put in the most effort she ever has to keep him. As terrified as Lawrence was about being sold into medieval slavery, Horo was not nearly as concerned until the wolves were involved.


I see Horo's current behavior as more of how she simply feels betrayed. She's started to open herself up, and go down to the level of a mortal in terms of her emotions. Horo has never been used to the emotions and attachments she feels toward Lawrence, or if she did in the past, she has forgotten about them. She overreacted, plain and simple.

Horo heard in his word that Lawrence thought she could get to her hometown on her own. We know that Lawrence believed she probably knew the way, so long as she got close. She just didn't know the general region. 'She's a wolf, she should be able to smell her way home, right?' Lawrence didn't know how fragile she's been lately because she never spoke of her recent dreams and fears. While Lawrence was thrilled to find out that he had a much greater chance of finding her home, he was filled with happiness at making what once was a hopeless quest for his human limitations (time, age, normal senses) was now a chance for him to continue on with her. The part of the legend that claimed her home destroyed didn't concern him, since he was quite familiar with how political forces will change the myth to serve them. After all, that's what Horo faced when they first met in her town. He was more concerned in finding out where it was, rather than be concerned whether or not it was still there. He was going to go with her regardless now that there was renewed hope.

Horo took it as something he knew about the whole time, and used that to fill in the gaps about all the other fears she had ever had about Lawrence. That he was spending so much time with Nora instead of Horo because he liked that sort of pitiable character, the same kind that Horo believed she had now become. That he was thinking of abandoning her because he knew it was a fruitless quest, rather than his actual thoughts that he'd never be able to cover so great an area in his lifetime. That his jokes about how much he cost her were actually serious.

The truth of the matter is that Lawrence doesn't like pitiable characters. The reason he admired Nora was because her life was terrible, but she was making the best of it anyway. He was repulsed by Horo's response that he should mate with her, not because he hadn't considered the idea (did he even think it was possible before he asked Deanna?), but because the reason she suddenly thought about it was because it would be a way for him to pity her, and make him stay with her.

It's just Horo overreacting to all the feelings she is suddenly aware of, and all the anxieties that she had been feeling as a result of them. She filled in all the gaps when she felt betrayed by the letter. It would not have happened if she had been around with Lawrence during his search for information, or if the two of them had read the letter together.

(If there are some inconsistencies in the above, I rewrote parts of it about 5 times as I reviewed the material.)


On another matter, I really like Deanna's character.

[shinta|hikari]

But why did she apologize after her outburst against Lawrence before? If she actually believed that Lawrence betrayed her, apologizing is the last thing she will do.

[Ryllharu]

I didn't take it as an apology for the outburst, but as a, "Sorry, I'd like to be alone."

He intended to comfort her, and she wouldn't allow him to.

[Everon]

I think Dianna sold the pyrite to Horo. Notice the large feathers?

Whether she's trying to help Lawrence or hinder his efforts to crash the market, though, is anyone's guess.

[Buffalobiian]

I think Dianna sold the pyrite to Horo. Notice the large feathers?

Whether she's trying to help Lawrence or hinder his efforts to crash the market, though, is anyone's guess.

Though Horo now knows about Dianna's existence through the letter, I doubt she actually knows what Lawrence is planning. Even Amarty, who's been trading for a good while, only recently learned how to buy with credit.

I'm sure it was Amarty who bought the pyrite, and gave the feathers to Horo as a gift. It also shows how he's already buying with credit, and his confidence shows he (thinks he) knows what he's doing, supporting previous remarks that he's a prodigy on the regarding trade.

[Kraco]

No need for market speculations when the exchange is already closed:

Episode 6 - Mazui (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_06_2A2EE75C.mkv.torrent)

[Ryllharu]

I fell for Horo's acting hook line and sinker, just like that idiot Lawrence. I didn't think that those feathers were Deanna's either, I also figured that Amarty had simply gotten them for her, but not from Deanna. At least I was correct on what Lawrence believed Horo's "Sorry" was about, even if it was just as incorrect.

Horo and Deanna's plan failed to yeild the results that Horo wanted because Lawrence was too freaked out about the thought of losing her, and Horo didn't believe that Lawrence would get so freaked out that he wouldn't talk to her.

But it wasn't just Lawrence in a panicked state, since Horo did go to Deanna to ask her to lie to Lawrence so that he would still travel with her to Yoitsu. If Horo felt she needed that to convince Lawrence, so she must have been deeply worried herself.

I suppose we all should have had more faith in Horo.


I bet Amarty either said something snide about Lawrence, or indirectly insulted Horo's fur by saying how great the thing he had bought her was.

[shinta|hikari]

I already had a hint of what was going to happen when Holo touched the feathers. She definitely is not the type to do that, so it felt very unnatural.



But it wasn't just Lawrence in a panicked state, since Horo did go to Deanna to ask her to lie to Lawrence so that he would still travel with her to Yoitsu. If Horo felt she needed that to convince Lawrence, so she must have been deeply worried herself.


This was what saved the whole outcome for me. It showed that Holo does indeed care for Lawrence the same level he does for her, maybe even more. The other thing that made it such a perfect outcome was the fact that Lawrence would have won regardless of Holo's assistance. If Holo was not there, the Bird God would have given the stones to Lawrence, and Lawrence would have utterly crushed Amarty. The last bit about Amarty having offended Holo (which I imagine is very easy to do considering the smug shota's personality) also absolved Holo of being deceptive (and evil).



I suppose we all should have had more faith in Horo.


You just had to say it. Now I feel guilty.

[Kraco]

I think Lawrence could have said a bit more after it was all over. The best the dude could get out of his mouth was I still want to travel with you. As much as he got scared of losing Horo he still couldn't be honest to himself or her. Though by now Horo probably knows how dense he is, even without the reminder he literally gave her.

All in all how this little escapade ended was a bit abrurpt. It just suddenly was over and all was good before you knew it. Just a little bit of a letdown considering how agitated I was feeling watching it.

[depthcharge]

Horo having heard that Lawrence might want to mate with her is all she needs.:D

[Yukimura]

I think the fact that he got scared at all is a sign that he's not confident enough in her to settle down with her or anything like that (for now). Like Lawrence, we all basically got trolled into thinking Horo was a weak-willed, emotional wreck willing to chase after shiny baubles and attention from some random kid rather than stick with her long time (relatively) travel companion. I feel kind of bad for assuming the worst of Horo. Once she went all 'Gimmie a baby and all' I took it as evidence that she was a typical immature whiny brat anime girl who had to have a guy jump through hoops for her periodically or else she'd bolt on him. It didn't fully dawn on me that she might have regained her composure so quickly after her outburst and had faith in Lawrence and his companionship.

After this event I found myself somewhat annoyed with Lawrence for spending his time and effort running around trying to ensure Amarty failed in his effort to buy out Horo's debt. From my understanding of the situation with the contract Horo would have been under no mandate to stop traveling with Lawrence even if Amerty was able to produce the coins. She would have just been freed of her 'debt' to him. By behaving like Horo's companionship could be bought or sold like that I felt that he kind of cheapened her to a common spoiled brat-dere. I was mildly surprised she wasn't more angry with him over this lack of trust, but perhaps she is also wise enough not to call him out on something she herself did just few days earlier.

I suppose one good thing that came of this is that Lawrence discovered how far he would go to keep Horo around. They did kind of glance over the implications of his lack of confidence in her willingness to stay with him without some sort of prodding or dick waving but at least now they should both be more aware of how much he wants them to stay together.

[shinta|hikari]

After this event I found myself somewhat annoyed with Lawrence for spending his time and effort running around trying to ensure Amarty failed in his effort to buy out Horo's debt. From my understanding of the situation with the contract Horo would have been under no mandate to stop traveling with Lawrence even if Amerty was able to produce the coins. She would have just been freed of her 'debt' to him. By behaving like Horo's companionship could be bought or sold like that I felt that he kind of cheapened her to a common spoiled brat-dere. I was mildly surprised she wasn't more angry with him over this lack of trust, but perhaps she is also wise enough not to call him out on something she herself did just few days earlier.


You seem to forget that Lawrence believes that Holo misunderstood his intentions, and therefore hates him on false grounds. Lawrence probably wanted to show Holo how much he cared for her by spending his time and effort running around trying to keep her with him. It is his way of showing his sincerity to a Holo who he believes lost trust in him. Lawrence repeatedly pointed this out when he said that he has confidence in their relationship, if it weren't for the recent events. I'm pretty sure Lawrence doesn't think that Holo can be bought with money, proven by his final leap of faith in the end.

The best way to have solved the whole issue is for Lawrence to simply approach Holo and talk to her, but as Holo points out and Lawrence admits, he is a dense bastard. He is definitely not the type to go all passionate and confront her. We do see him try and hesitate several times though, which is indicative of how strong his feelings are, practically overriding his own base character.

As you said, the lack of trust went both ways. Holo also asked the Bird God to lie to Lawrence, because she did not trust him enough to keep traveling with her without an existing destination. Holo should have known better, especially since she supposedly has already regained her composure at that point.

[Kraco]

Lawrence probably wanted to show Holo how much he cared for her by spending his time and effort running around trying to keep her with him. It is his way of showing his sincerity to a Holo who he believes lost trust in him.

That sounds a bit more calculative than my impression of it. Running around desperately trying to win the gamble was the only thing Lawrence thought he could do (as dictated by his dense personality centered on trading alone). He was afraid of losing Horo and did all he could to prevent that.

While it technically sounds like the same thing, there's a difference. It's like the difference of a man jumping between a bullet and his love interest instinctively compared to a man pondering that if he jumps between a bullet and his love interest, the woman might be thankful to him.

[shinta|hikari]

I did not mean for it to sound calculating. When I said "his way", it does not have to be purely mental, but also heavily emotional. It was quite obvious that Lawrence was driven by emotion. It just so happens he expressed those emotions by trying to win the trading duel.

[depthcharge]

I get the feeling that Lawrence was pretty much using his all to win this duel. While the same for Amarty as well.(maybe not since he didnt really use his family power to do it)

Therefore in a duel with the stake being all your monetary worth and pride, Horo must have felt quite good.

BTW, about pyrite, I have found some before and dug it out of the rocks that embedded it. It does look like bling. Now about the wolf god... where can I find one.

[oyabun]

Hmm. I think Horo didn't care much about being the prize or being the girl that is being contested over. Remember after Lawrence and Horo fought, Horo came to her senses. And all through out the days he was helping Lawrence beat Amarty. So she is more of an accomplice rather than being a price.

[Buffalobiian]

You seem to forget that Lawrence believes that Holo misunderstood his intentions, and therefore hates him on false grounds.

The thing that really kicked this off was the marriage contract that Horo and Amarty signed. When Lawrence saw Horo's message with Amarty's financial status. With that, he was ready to talk with Horo, and was already believing Horo still likes him despite their recent fight. After that, he saw the marriage contract, and that's how the ball got rolling.

I think Horo went a bit overboard with that one. Like she said, she intended it to be something to simply trigger Lawrence to come barging into her room demanding and explanation because she didn't want to approach him instead. That plan backfired.

As much trust as Lawrence had in her, I doubt any man seeing such a thing after a fight like that would think she was just playing with him. A marriage contract would state something like Horo consents to being with Amarty. Add that with the duel Lawrence and Amarty settled with, you get:


"Horo will marry Amarty + Horo will be free if Amarty wins."

From that, the only way out for Lawrence was to beat Amarty, as that part is the only part with IF involved.



In short, Horo played a bad joke. I wonder if she even forged that entire contract without Amarty's knowing.

Also, wasn't Amarty meant to be some kind of genius? It's a bit unbelievable that Horo figured out Lawrence's plan while he didn't. And he was being all smug and all at that stand when he had nothing to counter with. That kid's arrogance is unjustified. It's that very attitude that probably made him say something to tick Horo off.

By the end though, I was just relieved Horo and Lawrence were back to normal again. In contrast with the first series, this romantic interaction was very tense. We've blown past six episodes already, and it's only been one arc.

[shinta|hikari]

I agree that Holo went overboard, considering everything that happened.

Amarty is a smug prick who apparently offends gods. Enough said.

Holo has been alive for hundreds of years and has spent the most recent of those with Lawrence. It is only natural for her to figure Lawrence's plan out, while the prince shota did not.

[Buffalobiian]

Mazui - Episode 7 (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_07_396A0077.mkv.torrent)

[Kraco]

A really nice episode after the recent emo arc. Quite a dreadful feeling city, though.

[Ryllharu]

I'm rather glad to see a medieval city that is exactly what I would expect one to be: dreary, muddy, brown-colored (timber and stone), cramped, oppressive with a hint at nefarious deeds afoot.

The chemistry is certainly back between Horo and Lawrence. Lots of cute shots of Horo, and even Lawrence managed to get her heart a fluttter. She tried to lure him into it, and her quiet "hmmph" noises were amusing. Lawrence caught her off guard by not playing into her game until she got distracted by their wordplay.

[Buffalobiian]

It's the first I've noticed, does Horo always add "-kaya?" at the end?

The chemistry was very entertaining to watch, but I don't think I understood everything behind those jokes. I might download SFW to make a comparison.

The part where Lawrence says "Until you stop doing things" seems especially significant, but means nothing to me.

[animus]

It's the first I've noticed, does Horo always add "-kaya?" at the end?

The chemistry was very entertaining to watch, but I don't think I understood everything behind those jokes. I might download SFW to make a comparison.

The part where Lawrence says "Until you stop doing things" seems especially significant, but means nothing to me.

She doesn't always, but she does it quite often. But then again, maybe she does always add that at the end of questions.

At first I thought it was Amarty under the cloak and stuff, until Horo said it was a she.

[Kraco]

Timber and stone:

Episode 8 - Mazui (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_08_7DE68319.mkv.torrent)



- - - - - - - - -



Edit: The disguised female merchant was an interesting character but I can't help but feel she's planning something that's not beneficial for Lawrence and Horo. I'm not yet thinking she knows what Horo is, but surely she's up to something. Naturally it doesn't alleviate my suspicions she has ties to the church and is also otherwise well connected.

[Buffalobiian]

I wonder if that old man's words "So you want to head towards the pagan lands" mean anything in particular, or if he's just simply referring to the geographic region and nothing else.

"Careless negotiations" smells like trouble, but I didn't get that impression from the conversation alone.

[Kraco]

I wonder if that old man's words "So you want to head towards the pagan lands" mean anything in particular, or if he's just simply referring to the geographic region and nothing else.

It obviously means the lands in those parts are not under the heavy influence of the church like most cities and towns we have seen so far. There was one city in the first season, where they got the gold to be smuggled, that was a pagan one as well, and thus the church didn't have its veritable gold monopoly over there. I doubt it means anything else. Maybe Horo's kind is more evident still in those parts where the church hasn't snuffed out all superstition save their own one god.

[Kraco]

Conversation alone:

Episode 9 - Mazui (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_09_10A09DB8.mkv.torrent)

[Buffalobiian]

What's it with everyone wanting to buy Horo?

Interestingly enough, this girl is also one who made a living using the Church like Nora was.

[Kraco]

One who made a living:

Episode 10 - Mazui (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_10_CA5C6433.mkv.torrent)




Edit: The deal has a very strong shady feeling. I'll be surprised if Lawrence doesn't find himself grasping at the shorter end of the stick. It wasn't yet even revealed what significance the low quality salt had. But then again, for all we know, Lawrence might actually already be fully expecting a twist in the deal. He has been fooled too many times already in the past not to.

One funny thing here that hasn't been revealed so far is what exactly Abe is bringing onto the table. Just the ability to pawn Horo for lots of money? That sounds somewhat asymmetrical considering Lawrence and Horo are accepting the full risk should something go wrong. Abe would lose nothing at all.

[Ryllharu]

It wasn't yet even revealed what significance the low quality salt had. But then again, for all we know, Lawrence might actually already be fully expecting a twist in the deal. He has been fooled too many times already in the past not to.
That's the part that is bothering me the most. Lawrence seemed to understand at least a little bit the significance of that revelation, but didn't share it with the audience nor did he appear to have shared it with Horo, his confidant as always.

It seems like it would be the key to understanding whether or not Abe is trustworthy, and as you said, she really doesn't seem to be risking anything at all. We have to wonder why she is so nervous about this going off correctly.

While Lawrence is typically very stupid when Horo is at risk, he didn't seem to be ignoring that issue, only keeping it to himself. I hope that he will bring that out at the proper time.

[shinta|hikari]

I think it is all to make him look cool in the end. He has been failing quite miserably lately, so this is his chance to get the Lelouch evil laugh in the end.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm wondering if Abe being from the noble family has anything else to do with this other than giving Horo a good price tag. The first impression I got was that Abe might be targeted or something, and is palming Horo off under her name as a scapegoat. It doesn't quite make sense, and Abe's nervousness would be either in her lack of confidence regarding the plan's successfulness or a guilty conscience, so I'm not buying it myself.

There's surprisingly quite a lot of flashbacks to when the couple were escaping in the sewers, the details which I can't accurately recall, and why the Church hasn't caught up with them yet.

[Kraco]

Her lack of confidence:

Episode 11 - Mazui (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_11_EB2169BF.mkv.torrent)

[David75]

So Horo is afraid to go any further in their relation because she fears the time it ends.
Did she purposedly let Lawrence be sharper than her in their verbal exchanges?

I suppose that Lawrence, contemplating the tree and listening to the nun saw the relationship he shares with Horo. The tree could be Horo, a being that is very different, will live longer than you, but still can interact with you (beauty, fruits etc... for the tree that is). Dying long before the tree doesn't mean the relation was useless, even to the tree that will probably live stronger.

Regarding the bad quality salt, at least we know it has been used for the Virgin Mary figurines.
I wonder if it's not some kind of blasphemy. But for it to be important for Lawrence, I guess bad quality salt gained value once transformed as church merchandising.
Also, those figurines must not last long, so people will have to buy replacements, which is an important part of business, even if in that case people would feel they've been had.

That last point could be the explanation for the rebellion, but it could be the fur trade problem too, I can't see that coming out of the set they gave us.

Regarding the talk about Horo's sale, I was quite lost in what was important or wasn't.
There's the exchange rate beetween currencies, the agreed price, fur trading.

The rebellion will sure make it hard to make the right decisions as their are no more best practice rules in a region that unstable.

[Kraco]

The rebellion really came out of nowhere. I was trying to figure just who is going to cheat whom in the this three party deal - because like you said, that business meeting didn't seem to have overly much concrete matters on the table. Lastly the salt was also brought back, though I doubt nobody had forgotten it yet.

Bam! A rebellion and the city on fire (it's a damn big city, if you have a better look at the picture), so I imagine the deal must be off. It was all for nothing. And I don't mean all the business plans were all for nothing but trying to figure out just how somebody is going to free Lawrence of his assets this time.

Lawrence's hesitation with Horo is starting to piss me off. I guess it also goes the other way, but for Horo the situation is a bit different and apparently not the first time either. In that sense I'd consider it Lawrence's responsibility to forget everything else and dedicate himself to not losing Horo.

[David75]

The rebellion really came out of nowhere. I was trying to figure just who is going to cheat whom in the this three party deal - because like you said, that business meeting didn't seem to have overly much concrete matters on the table. Lastly the salt was also brought back, though I doubt nobody had forgotten it yet.

Bam! A rebellion and the city on fire (it's a damn big city, if you have a better look at the picture), so I imagine the deal must be off. It was all for nothing. And I don't mean all the business plans were all for nothing but trying to figure out just how somebody is going to free Lawrence of his assets this time.

Lawrence's hesitation with Horo is starting to piss me off. I guess it also goes the other way, but for Horo the situation is a bit different and apparently not the first time either. In that sense I'd consider it Lawrence's responsibility to forget everything else and dedicate himself to not losing Horo.


Regarding Lawrence and Horo speech, did anyone notice that Horo said she'd die with him?
"They say when you've tasted the poison, you might as well finish the plate.When that happens, I'll eat you up as well."

Or maybe that part of the dialogue was of no importance.

[Buffalobiian]

"They say when you've tasted the poison, you might as well finish the plate.When that happens, I'll eat you up as well."


I don't think that's what she means she'll die with him. He's talking about her eating everything he has (financially), so my take on the issue was that she says if she was to devour him, she'd devour it entirely, including his finances and him personally.

It still doesn't make too much sense. Translator notes would be useful for this series I think. Has anybody tried Frostii?

The rebellion came very suddenly, but there was adequate foreshadowing, I think. The entire city had a very tense feeling with all the less-than-friendly merchants waiting for a decision by the backdoor-dealing bureaucracy. It was only a matter of time before it snapped, given how one-sided the decision was.

What I want to see is how all this matters to their trading. The deal's obviously off, but Abe doesn't look like she's worried about a single lost opportunity. Perhaps their dealings will be seen as siding with the higher-ups and treated the same.

Regarding the sequence with the Garden, in Lawrence's vision, he was holding hands with Horo at the tree, rather than just being with the tree as if it was Horo. The analogy here is that he's happier just humbly being with Horo and watching over her than doing his actual job of being a merchant and pursuing his more ambitious dream of owning a store. Thinking about it that way ties in with his words that "humbler dreams are harder to achieve", since he's about to lose Horo, while owning a store at the time was just around the corner.

The entire table of merchants gave off such a crafty laugh I can't imagine anybody could trade with them without feeling like they were somehow being ripped off.

Following up Kraco's comment about the currency, I think it was the merchants showing off that they deal with enough money that they'd pay them with gold. Lesser merchants wouldn't bother with such large currencies because it would simply be too large. Being able to give out gold coins so casually indicates they deal with large trades that use big gold currencies all the time.

[Ryllharu]

What I want to see is how all this matters to their trading. The deal's obviously off, but Abe doesn't look like she's worried about a single lost opportunity. Perhaps their dealings will be seen as siding with the higher-ups and treated the same.
While I agree with your view of everything else you said, I did not see that exchange the same way. Abe was terrified. This was her chance to make a name for herself, and finally get the respect she believes she deserves, and obviously didn't get from the wealthy merchants at the meeting. Horo and Lawrence got a great deal more respect from the guild head.

Part of that is due to Abe's haughty and poor attitude. She's fallen nobility, and while Horo plays it quite well by acting gracefully, Abe acts like she is merely slumming with the rabble. She deserves better, she's had a hard life, she will overshadow her former buyer/husband.

This is everything she was hoping for, destroyed in a single moment. While she's playing angry, she's panicked and terrified.

This was going to be everything to her, just like losing the statue/salt deal was before this.

[Kraco]

Destroyed in a single moment:

Episode 12 Final - Mazui (http://herpes.deepbone.net/data/torrents/Mazui_Spice_and_Wolf_II_-_12_52A71270.mkv.torrent)

[Buffalobiian]

So Abe spared however much it costed for the inn and gave it to Lawrence? How nice of her.

The finale didn't pack as much punch as last season, but overall I enjoyed this. The earlier half had so much tension that it would have felt like the climax in it's own right. Tension-wise, those two arcs should be swapped around. Story-wise though, that wouldn't have worked, since the romantic issues being dealt with progressed in accordance with increasing maturity in their relationship.

I'm certainly hoping for a Season 3, but the fact that it ended on a slightly lower note than what it previously hit might impact on the hype for those with short-term memory.

If the staff at Brains Base (animator of S&W II) have been converted to Horoism however, then there would be no worries

[Kraco]

I'm somewhat disappointed Lawrence got cheated out his money not by a crafty business plot but by a rudimentary physical fight. That he lost against a girl no less. It wasn't a very stylish closure even if it blends into the general disorderly state of the mutinous town.

But in the end it's not so serious seeing how Lawrence managed to prevent Horo from running away.

A third season surely would be in order.

[shinta|hikari]

Lawrence did not lose physically. He lost because he is too good natured for his own good, a fitting end for someone like him. That is also the reason Abe left him the inn, so it was not all bad.

I would have liked it better if Holo looked like she enjoyed the kiss more, but it was a great ending nonetheless.

[Buffalobiian]

[Nipponsei] Spice and Wolf II Original Soundtrack.zip (http://tracker.minglong.org/torrents/%5BNipponsei%5D%20Spice%20and%20Wolf%20II%20Origin al%20Soundtrack.zip.torrent)

-Forgot it in my last post.


Lawrence did not lose physically. He lost because he is too good natured for his own good, a fitting end for someone like him. That is also the reason Abe left him the inn, so it was not all bad.

I wonder if Abe ever considered killing Lawrence during that sequence. She obviously isn't absolutely set on taking his life since she prepared the inn contract as well as the single-edged blade, but greed can get blinding at times. Perhaps Lawrence's good nature actually saved him. Females are crafty beings.

[KrayZ33]

Did we actually mention anywhere that a new project started this year?

Not sure if it's a remake or a sequel, or a prequel or movie... it's going to be an anime though.

But it's Spice & Wolf!
If it is a Sequel, I'd have to watch where S2 left off, I don't quite remember.

I think it was shortly after the Forest Wolf stuff and when that other merchant got tricked by Holo and craft got really jealous?

[Kraco]

Looking at the last posts in this thread, I can't say I'd recall the ending of last season in any significant detail. It has been a dozen years.

[Buffalobiian]

I just remember it snowing and Holo got naked.

[David75]

Most people here will be pleased to know that 15 years later we will get another season planned for 2024!

https://youtu.be/DuWQOwwI9z4

[Buffalobiian]

I see that it's a reboot with new VAs. I guess I'll keep an open mind. I'm nonetheless happy to hear this.

[Ryllharu]

I see that it's a reboot with new VAs. I guess I'll keep an open mind. I'm nonetheless happy to hear this.

Huh? Do you not recognize Koshimizu Ami and Fukuyama Jun?

But yeah, it does appear to be a reboot. The Nostalgia Slaves over at ANN are having a tantrum.

[Kraco]

It's a reboot? How pointless. Maybe the studio calculates that a direct continuation wouldn't gather a significant enough audience, after so many years. With a reboot, they would get a new audience, plus hopefully some from the old stock. Who knows. Disappointing in any case. I was looking forward to seeing how the story continues.

[David75]

Hummm... at first I thought the pv was just a reminder, then I thought I had seen all the scenes but with a kind of cgi that was not in the first run... So somehow I was hoping for some new arcs and nope, we'll get a reboot...
It seems my memory is good enough to make a reboot boring.
Well, I'll try some eps when they're out.

[Buffalobiian]

Huh? Do you not recognize Koshimizu Ami and Fukuyama Jun?

But yeah, it does appear to be a reboot. The Nostalgia Slaves over at ANN are having a tantrum.

I went to look up whether this would be a reboot or continuation, and somewhere a site said there'd be new VAs.

When I watched the trailer prior to looking things up, I did not feel that the voices were significantly different.

[Kraco]

I went to look up whether this would be a reboot or continuation, and somewhere a site said there'd be new VAs.

When I watched the trailer prior to looking things up, I did not feel that the voices were significantly different.

It would be strange if some minor role VAs didn't change. Some VA might have even died during all these years. Another might have simply retired.

[KrayZ33]

Well. It has a Foxgirl in it, so I'm in it.
Too bad it isn't a new season.

[KrayZ33]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGGKtSIQhFU