Why Gundam Seed sucked

[February]

Gundam Seed was a very bad experience for me. I've watched parts of Gundam Z (long time ago, but gave up looking for sub'd episodes), Gundam Wing, Gundam X, Gundam 00, Gundam 8th MS Team, Gundam 0080/0083

When I talk about Gundam Seed, I'm also including the sequel to it: Gundam Seed Destiny as well.

1) Weak Story. I know that the story of Gundam series was not the strong point of the series but Seed's story felt like it was designed to just get-by so that it can show high-powered good action for the younger kids. It was not as political as a lot of the other Gundam stories (which I'm not arguing is a good or bad thing) but if your story is not very political, you better have a good social story. The story is rather dependent on human engineering issue: Naturals and Coordinators. It just doesn't work.

2). Bad Main Character(s): Yes, I'm arguing that both Kira and Shinn were pretty bad main characters. Why? Shinn was driven by emotion and often immature, but honest to his feelings. I could somewhat relate only a little bit with him. Kira, on the other hand, was this incredibly overpowered superior character that also seemed arrogant to me. In season 1, when Kira kicks Sai after stealing his girl, I've lost all my respect and attachment with Kira. I've also hated the fact that Kira would often cry in front of the female characters to get their attention. (At one point, he did it almost about nothing emotional, I still can't remember the exact episode.)

In other Gundam shows, the main character somehow "works" his way to becoming powerful. He trains or he just progresses slowly. This is lacking in Kira, especially during the first few times he pilots Strike, he takes on Athrun's gundam as well as Athrun's teammates. He comes in and decimates everything almost the entire show.

Very little to no character development for Kira + Shinn. Shinn never matured up and Kira turned from arrogant (season 1) to emotionless (season 2)
I don't even understand why the author bothered to include Shinn in Season 2 if Kira would overpower Shinn and save the World.

3) It was way too predictable. Perhaps Gundam series is suppose to follow the tradition of the male boy character saving the world and marrying the princess but at least other Gundam series had some sort of their unique bland in their shows. For example, the only time I can remember Kira ever losing is that one battle with Shinn in Season 2. I always knew Kira would reign victorious or come flying down and save the ship. And the plot just builds up to make it obvious that Flay will die.

4) Did not have a good message. Yes, we are told that Kira is a ultimate coordinator (basically a superior human) and Shinn is just a coordinator. The fact that Kira gets labeled as an 'ultimate coordinator’ and makes Kira beat everything just gives the subliminal message that “superiority beats hard work” Hard-work is what Shinn is because he wasn’t blessed with superior ultimate genes or an overpowered gundam like Kira’s Strike Freedom. And when Kira takes down Shinn, it just tells the viewers that "People who are born as superior / ultimate will win in the end"

5) Was not exciting. This might seem like a weak argument but it ties in with the "too predictable" argument. Because we already assumed that Kira would win / save everything, it made things so much more boring. If our main character was someone weak, and a character like Char or Zechs existed that would be a temporary protagonist, and would save the day instead, it would make the viewers much less expectant of the main character. But sadly, we saw him as the winner before the battle ended which killed the excitement. In Gundam Wing, you're about to shit your pants when the colony is about to crash on Earth. Because it actually made you feel like it might happen or that the show really convinced you how working for your ideals helps you become a better person. Seed did not have such attachments.

6) Lack of proper villians and support characters. Athrun was hyped in the beginning to have a major impact because a ton of flashbacks were about him and he was the best friend to Kira, but he just died off as unimporant through the end. He was just a guy to take care of Cagalli and friend Kira. He had so much potential too.
Lacus seemed like so un-human and felt like she was soley there just to be the main character's love interest

Rey Za Burrel/Durandal sucked as villians. Although their views differed from Kira's, the last battle between them just seemed too forced. There was no build-up that it was destined for them to battle. You don't even have a proper villian, Durandal didn't even battle with mobile suits. In Wing, you can feel that emotion and that desperate conflict of ideas between Hero and Zechs. Even Gundam 00 had a better villain.

It's been more than a few years since I've watched Seed so I might not remember a lot of things. But my argument still stands

[February]

And I also want to say that although Strike Freedom is lovely, its ridiculously overpowered. Future Gundam shows need to stop that traditional white / blue look on the main character's gundams and become unique for once!

[Psyke]

I liked Seed. Destiny sucked, and I think most here would agree. Just check out the hate accumulated on the old Destiny threads.

[February]

I liked Seed. Destiny sucked, and I think most here would agree. Just check out the hate accumulated on the old Destiny threads.

Most of the older Gundam series has much better plot although it suffers from worse animation. If you haven't, go try some out! The only problem is, they might be very hard to find

[darkshadow]

I expected some rant about how UC is superior to any other universe but this was actually not bad.
1. Yes the story is weak, but it still kept me going, simply cause the action and music is great. And I personally feel like the first 12 eps of destiny are pretty damn awesome, then good till ep34, then just fucking bad from there on.

2. I agree that Kira is a terrible main char, and he should've died of at the end of seed, or after the battle with Shinn, I liked how Athrun had a backseat role in destiny, but he and Kira completely stole Shinn's show after ep34. Shinn I like a lot however, he has his reasons for acting like he does and I feel that they are valid, and because he is an ACE nobody tells him otherwise, until Athrun shows up.
Shinn was actually maturing up after that, but soon fell back because he looked up to Athrun a lot, but hated that Saviour lost to Freedom ( this was shown in the manga version of destiny, which is sooo much more interesting).

3. Destiny actually had a glimmer of hope when Shinn trashed Freedom and the Gouf where athrun AND meyrin where in ( I thought his inner conflict here was great ). But this all went to hell the second fucking lacus and kira showed up in doom machines #1 and #2, ugh.

4. Well actually, Shinn and Kira was a matchup in Shinn's favor because his skills are superior in some area's, thats also why it was Athrun who took him down. Though I don't agree with the manner of the endgame, cause Athrun just completely trashed Shinn and destroyed the minerva in less then 30 seconds, rediculous. Athrun and Shinn's scores in the simulator ( manga) where very close to each other even before the events of ep34.
But yeah, it does basically have this entire crew of superior people banding together and destroying everyone else.
It would've been far more interesting if we had a bad guy like that.

5. I thought the endgame of Seed was pretty cool, those 2 ships blasting each other, mwu blowing up ( we'll get to that later), Athrun actually wanting to self destruct justice, Kira and Rau fight.
Same with the first 12 eps of destiny and then till 34, I thought it was very cool to see minerva get hunted like that and then have shinn just completely and utterly trash everything. As soon as Shinn set foot in Destiny though, it all went to shit.

6. In seed i thought mwu was pretty awesome, mostly due to his sacrifice in strike.
But then...... they bring him back with some anime magic and he does his trick again, but this time he survives like its nothing! Fucking nonsense, Mwu died.
I also thought Rau was a pretty good villain, heck at least he fought an endgame battle, Destiny just has a couple of "good guys" fighting each other. The best supporting char in destiny was definitly Heine... cept he died ;(.

I didn't mind Kira coming back, but the way he suddenly took center stage and got another magic gundam over his already magical gundam just completely fucked the show up the ass.
But I guess that is what you get when you want to please your overly Kira loving fanbase ;[

[AngryGumball]

Man that first fight scene between Episodes 1 and 2 was the king for me full on tits on display with Shinn. Best sequence for me ever. Nice quick action!

Thats all I got to say otherwise R U Kidding me storyline, Killing Heine was BS as well, next time grow some balls and kill someone else before building up, and stop letting god char appear to die and then have no damage at all Fucking Kira.

Have another complaint with two other chars but I can't think of their names allowing them back in with such small roles. meh i give up.

[Psyke]

Most of the older Gundam series has much better plot although it suffers from worse animation. If you haven't, go try some out! The only problem is, they might be very hard to find

Can't say I've watched a lot but these are the ones I've caught: Gundam 0083, Gundam ZZ, Gundam 8th MS Team, G Gundam, Gundam Wing, Gundam X, Seed, Destiny, 00. Call me unconventional but my fave is still G. :D

[digitalrurouni]

I enjoyed the heck out of Seed and I also enjoyed Kira being an utter badass :)

[Carnage]

Nobody cares the show is fucking old.

[TheBladeChild]

Is this thread really necessary?

[Buffalobiian]

Was Seed and Destiny really that bad? I'm planning to watch it.

[Psyke]

Watch Seed! I thought it was good. Entertaining, at least.

[TheBladeChild]

Seed was decent, I didnt like the ending though. Dont watch Destiny.

[darkshadow]

Seed I though the start was bad, it got much much better towards the endgame.
Destiny is badass till ep 12, then just good till 34, then it becomes just as bad as the start of seed, no even worse.
But still entertaining.

[Vegechan]

I thought everything up to episode 34 was great in Destiny. I thought they had a lot of potential, and they weren't pulling any punches. To me, it felt like it was trying to emulate UC a bit more, with the whole "There are no bad guys in war, only two opposing sides." And the climax to the fight with Shinn and Kira was surprising, and I thought brought the series to a new level.

Then they just absolutely shit over everything they set up. Character development, plot, relationships, and even deaths. It's like someone was in charge of the first 34 episodes, and then someone else took over...

[darkshadow]

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/gsd2/seed391x.jpg

^^That^^ was the problem with Destiny.

It was all fine and good when it was like this:
http://www.animeclick.it/prove/serie/GundamSEEDDestiny/GundamSEEDDestiny8.jpg

[LaZie]

Seed was awesome, but Destiny was mediocre at best.

[Dark Dragon]

One thing i never understood about Destiny is why a lot of people on Gotwoot seems to love Heine.

The guy showed up for like 2 episodes, had the total screen time of maybe 10 minutes and did absolutely nothing remarkable, but people were like "oh noes, that cannon fodder character just got killed off, how dare them". Unless there was some side materials that feature him that i somehow missed. I honestly can't see how he is any different than the rest of destiny lackluster characters.

[darkshadow]

Cause his spoken lines, made more sense then what most of the other guys were saying, even athrun realised some shit after speaking with Heine. Also he was laid back outside of battle, but still authoritive. Even Athrun made the remark that Shinn would prolly behave more if someone like Heine was around all the time.
Also in battle he was kinda like Yzak.
Guess he was just an overall charismatic character.

[Johnbear]

Killing Heine was BS as well, next time grow some balls and kill someone else before building up, and stop letting god char appear to die .







-

[Narasho]

Thats all I got to say otherwise R U Kidding me storyline, Killing Heine was BS as well, next time grow some balls and kill someone else before building up, and stop letting god char appear to die and then have no damage at all Fucking Kira..

IIRC, TM Revolution was the VA for Heine, and after recording a few episodes he decided he would be unable to continue due to other responsibilities. (relating, I would guess, to his music)

[darkshadow]

http://www.celestialbeing.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=190804

:D

[Norseda09]

Nowadays Wing is an "old" series, and most of Gundam fans consider it the less interesting one. There are also series that are not included in the game, such Endless Waltz, Gundam X, War in The Pocket, Stardust Memory, The 08th MS Team...

[banagherlinks]

Since you started complaining seed to wing. Wing also sucked. BIG TIME. You know why? A group of five bishounen boybands are tasked to infiltrate the Oz... And then what? Colonies asking for independence, and they put all there hope in a group of five boy bands.
2. Character development; I'm not a seed fan but kira insists that he is not as suppose you're tyring to portray. He's still a normal human being that he is judged not by ability alone. About that flay scene, kira never intented to steal sai's gf. He is in pain and trouble coz he's not a soldier in the first place. He asks for comfort, and sadly (ugh) flay only is the one who talks to him. About being arrogant he only roams to battlefield to disable enemy suits not killing them. It's still better than watching 5 homicidal boybands in gundam wing slaughtering helpless grunts and the main hero maniacally laughing. And don't start with wufei he's a hypocrite and disgusting that he talks about honor but killas an army while at their sleep.
4. If seed lacks proper villain, wing suffers that by two folds. It is clearly implied that the distinction and racial discrimination is the greatest enemy in seed. In the battlefield, kira engages on aces in the likes of the red coat, desert tiger, fed druggies, heine weistenfluss, shinn asuka while wing lacks that kind of aces. What does wing have? Zechs who is clear blatant rip-off of char? Treize who is like a rip-off of paptimus scircco? Oz does have the budget on mass producing suits but not the effctive pilots. They rush to the gundams begging to be destroyed and dies indignified. Sigh...
5. About the colony drop, isnt it zeon are the first one to use it making wing a bunch of copycat. Zeon wanted revenge to earth, char wanted a massive space migration so that humans can evolve to newtypes. The former soldiers of zaft done the junius seven drop out of revenge because of the bloody valentine. Then why operation meteor??? They all just get drunk, and come up with hey, let's throw something on earth!!!

[Y]

Gundam SEED was bad because, like just about every other modern Gundam series, it's forgotten the peaceful and anti-war sensibility of Tomino to do exactly what he didn't want - dress war up as a game, as action figures banging into each other, as thoughtless pretty explosions and clashes of Good and Evil.

I didn't read this thread.

[Uchiha Barles]

Seed was utter shit as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, as far as I'm concerned, Kira died in Seed midway into the series when he lost that fight against Athrun. He kicked Athrun's ass in the gundum fight, but he ended up trapped in his own gundam, and Athrun set the self-destruct sequence of Kira's gundam. Kira came back, with no explanation, no attempt at an explanation.

I loved Wing because of the awesome characters. I like how the most awesome Gundam pilot wasn't Heero, but Wufei. Everyone seems to have gotten bent by Zero, but Wufei comes out of it all boss, smirking and saying "Zero showed me something interesting xD." Everyone else went batshit crazy, destroying worlds or otherwise showing their comparative weakness. I like how in the beginning of the series, Heero and Duo jumped out of a window like badasses when they got caught infiltrating whatever building they were infiltrating.

I loved it when Lady Une left a bomb disguised as makeup kit in a room in order to assassinate some guy. After she left, Releena thought Lady Une forgot the make up kit and caught up with her. She all happy to be of service and Lady Une was like "Omg wtf?! Gimme that gtfo the way!" Through the bomb right through the window into the room, right before the explosion goes off, killing the dude. Bad. Ass. Up until that point, I hated Lady Une's guts. After that, I loved her. I remember rewinding to that part multiples times, and climaxing.

Heero also died and came back without an explanation. I didn't like that.

Yeah, Seed didn't have anyone like the people in Wing.

[banagherlinks]

I don't know what you're smoking man, but.... Wing is by far the worst gundam series ever existed. Worse than a deep shit. Why? It stole every good points from UC. They make a gundam show of a gundam that can transform and enter atmosphere without jetpacks. Uhmmm.. I think that's called Zeta Gundam??? Atleast the colonies in Zeon principality are more dignified and more willing to fight unlike those dumbasses in wing. Putting their hopes to 5 bishounen boys... But ends up abandoning them? Seed astray explains Lowe guile saving kira from the explosion of athrun's self destruct with his gerbera straight.

While heero and the G-boys are only saved by so called plot armor. Jumping from a high building and only suffering from broken leg? That's stupid. A perfect soldier? You gotta kidding me. Heero's got busted on episode 1 by zechs when he STARES at his leo and doing nothing. He self destructed his gundam. He survived, wing gundam got repaired and gets back to action. Blatant stupid. He fought zechs in antartica he gets his ass whooped and because of GODDAMN plot armor(no... No gundanium) instead of being sliced by tallgeese's beam saber it only looked like it was some kind of baseballbat. No. Don't even start with the gundam designs. They're aesthethically beautiful but rots and sucks big time in functionality. Bullshit. No one in world war one or two is recorded on going on an all out war carrying a big sycthe, glave or an extendable arm. Hello!!! Even seed displays better weaponry than those lame toys. You gotta defend that by saying those suits are design for close combat. That's stupid again. No f-cking idiot on his right mind will engage on an close fight when they can use beam riffle, heat rods, finfunnels. Don't even start with the grunts. They're the worst enemy soldiers ever existed. I don't find anything awesome of a show about pilots who only manages to survive with their overpowered suits. No. Wing has the worst characters. And you're hero, wufei is a deep shit. He preaches about fighting but slays soldiers sleeping at night. That's disgusting. I don't know man, guess being wing they're gateway gundam is equal to stupidity. XD