Naruto Chapter 447

[Archangel]

Online Viewing - One Manga (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/447/01/)

Edit to below: Sorry about that

[Rikudo]

FYI, your link goes directly to page 17.

Kind of an "eh" chapter for me. I wonder if pain can still go back to his normal form if he removes the rods from his body.

[Sam98034]

"How would you face this hatred in order to build peace?"
"I will believe in what Jiraiya believed in, so I won't kill you"

He overcame hate with love, then?

So does this mean that Nagato had those things in his back every since that day? That thing also looks exactly like the thing that inhales the tailed beasts. I guess it sucks out life.

[Death BOO Z]

I really like how Payne speaks, but the entire battle thing makes him like a complete tool (negative meaning). We were all supposed to think that Payne is so awesome because he killed Hanzo, but in the end, it was the rinngan that killed Hanzo, and payne's ability had nothing to do with it.
he's another gaara\kimimaru\zombie-duo\Sasuke\Itachi\sound-four clone. he was born with an amazing power, and this power dictates the entire course of his life. he's a loser.

also, we were led to believe that Payne uprising and taking over the rain country (killing Hanzo and all) were somewhat recent happenings (Jiraya didn't know about it) but now we see that it has happened many years ago, even before the creation of the current Akatsuki (most likely, even before Itachi went postal), and that leaves quite a time gap.


on a different notice, I hope that the ultimate weapon will evolve into the moon that Payne ancestor supposedly created, if it's true, we could bust out the "that's not moon! that's a death star!" joke again,
and we never get tired of that one.

[Patriot]

That final jutsu that Hanzo used looked like it allowed him to escape,

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-447/page012.html

and then we see the all to familiar smoke the next page over. To say that he killed him at that time would be an overstatement in the world of Naruto. The question is, does Pain think he killed him at that time? Or was there a battle afterwards that we get to know of. Hence why Pain says, "I lost many more friends in battle after that.."

http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-447/page014.html

[Sidnne]

Well, that went pretty much how we have all been expecting it to go. We knew that Naruto wasn't going to kill Nagato, because he hasn't directly killed anyone yet and likely never will. (that is to say he hasn't delivered the finishing blow).

In all likelihood, Nagato will still die here, just not by Naruto's hand.

As far as the answer... I was hoping for a better answer, but got the one I expected. "I will believe in what he believed in" isn't really an answer at all, as the question was basically "how will you accomplish what Jiraiya preached?" "By preaching the same thing" doesn't really solve anything.

[Hinata<3Naruto]

Honestly while I enjoy Pein's character I really wish they wouldn't do 4-6 manga issues purely of the past. I know Naruto is famous for its flashbacks but good lord nothing has actually happened in the last month plus worth of episodes.

The naruto pein fight was rocking. The sasuke vs insert name of character here stuff was alright but he had one too many i.m.o.

I hope Kishi gets back to the village for 1-2 episodes and then goes back to Madara and Sasuke.

[poopdeville]

I really like how Payne speaks, but the entire battle thing makes him like a complete tool (negative meaning). We were all supposed to think that Payne is so awesome because he killed Hanzo, but in the end, it was the rinngan that killed Hanzo, and payne's ability had nothing to do with it.
he's another gaara\kimimaru\zombie-duo\Sasuke\Itachi\sound-four clone. he was born with an amazing power, and this power dictates the entire course of his life. he's a loser.

also, we were led to believe that Payne uprising and taking over the rain country (killing Hanzo and all) were somewhat recent happenings (Jiraya didn't know about it) but now we see that it has happened many years ago, even before the creation of the current Akatsuki (most likely, even before Itachi went postal), and that leaves quite a time gap.


I agree. It was especially stupid to kill his own friend and THEN attack Hanzo.

But Hanzo didn't die this chapter, as far as I can tell. "Shunshin no Jutsu" is the "body flicker" jutsu. Hanzo "teleported" away before the weird statue summon touched him.

[Archangel]

I agree. It was especially stupid to kill his own friend and THEN attack Hanzo.

Before watching his friend die right in front of him he did not yet have the power to go up against hanzo

All that shit he pulled off came from his rage, just like the previous 2 times he was attacked

[poopdeville]

Before watching his friend die right in front of him he did not yet have the power to go up against hanzo

All that shit he pulled off came from his rage, just like the previous 2 times he was attacked

I disagree. I do like your reading better, but if that is what Kishimoto intended, he didn't do such a good job. In particular, Nagato obviously knew how to summon the statue before this incident -- both he and Konan knew about it. He even knew its name. And the statue was the move that turned the tide here.

Only the vector-arrow jutsu could potentially be a rage move he later mastered.

[Abdula]

PD I think the thing you're neglecting is Nagato's personality. Nagato seems to have had a very weak, timid personality and before now was only able to bring out his real power when he was really emotional and/or his life was in danger, not unlike someone else we know.

And why he didn't do anything before is pretty simple. Shock. They weren't expecting Konan to be taken hostage and after seeing this I'm pretty sure he and Yahiko could have fought their way out but Yahiko elected to kill himself, by impaling himself on Nagato's kunai.

[Patriot]

^ yeah that's the way I saw it happen too. Sometimes its just not that clear in the scans...

[poopdeville]

PD I think the thing you're neglecting is Nagato's personality. Nagato seems to have had a very weak, timid personality and before now was only able to bring out his real power when he was really emotional and/or his life was in danger, not unlike someone else we know.

And why he didn't do anything before is pretty simple. Shock. They weren't expecting Konan to be taken hostage and after seeing this I'm pretty sure he and Yahiko could have fought their way out but Yahiko elected to kill himself, by impaling himself on Nagato's kunai.

I guess. Nagato's "way of the ninja" was to protect his friends, though. He didn't even try until it was too late, despite having some kick ass jutsu.

That "other" ninja you mentioned is able to bring out his full power for others. Not arguing, just sayin'. Hanzo's ambush definitely put the three kids in a bad spot, too.

[Abdula]

He didn't even try until it was too late, despite having some kick ass jutsu.

That "other" ninja you mentioned is able to bring out his full power for others.
Yeah that is a very good point but that just goes back to their differing personalities. Naruto is very assertive and Nagato just isn't. Even now, he is still just attaching himself to someone with a strong personality i.e. Madara.

[12345p]

Well, that went pretty much how we have all been expecting it to go.Yes. Quite.
In all likelihood, Nagato will still die here, just not by Naruto's hand.That I'm not so sure about. Naruto is just as likely to turn around and tell everyone not to touch him. Many Kohona nins likely won't harm Payne because so many of the good? Kohona nins have trust and respect in Naruto and his decisions.
.. as the question was basically "how will you accomplish what Jiraiya preached?" "By preaching the same thing" doesn't really solve anything.It's one thing to preach, but quite another to put into practice. By not continuing the chain of hatred, the question isn't what Naruto is going to do, but what is Payne going to do?

[12345p]

Naruto is very assertive and Nagato just isn't. Even now, he is still just attaching himself to someone with a strong personality i.e. Madara.That is exactly what makes me wonder if Nagato is going to jump ship & join Naruto + Crew...

[poopdeville]

That is exactly what makes me wonder if Nagato is going to jump ship & join Naruto + Crew...

I hope not. I can live with a peace treaty between Amegakure and Konoha. I'd probably stop reading if Nagato and Konan "joined" Naruto or Konoha in any sense, in the next few (manga) weeks/months. They're both still pissed at each other. And now Nagato knows fighting Naruto is a big challenge -- big enough he can actually and probably would lose. Nagato wants to make peace by killing Naruto, but he is unable. Naruto is unwilling to make peace by killing Nagato. The only way they are going to make peace is to part ways here, and meet to talk about a plan going forward once they have both calmed down.

[Sidnne]

That I'm not so sure about. Naruto is just as likely to turn around and tell everyone not to touch him. Many Kohona nins likely won't harm Payne because so many of the good? Kohona nins have trust and respect in Naruto and his decisions.

Who said anything about other Konoha nins attacking him? Nagato is spitting up blood, used most of his chakra, and appears to be at the end of his ropes. I was more expecting him to die from completely exhausting himself, not from an attack.

There are two scenarios in which I can see this happening. The first being, Nagato accepts Naruto's answer and "passes the torch" to him, so to speak. Then dies.
The second, Nagato refuses to accept Naruto's answer and insists that pain is still the only way and launches a final attack at Naruto, using up the rest of his chakra. Then dies.

[Rikudo]

I'm thinking after naruto leaves, Danzou/roots ANBU squad will assassinate Nagato and claim the victory for himself. That way he will get a more stronger support for his bid as a Hokage.

[Archangel]

I'm thinking after naruto leaves, Danzou/roots ANBU squad will assassinate Nagato and claim the victory for himself. That way he will get a more stronger support for his bid as a Hokage.

Half the village already knows that the one fighting Pain is Naruto

[DeathscytheVII]

I like your way of Thinking Rikudo, that would make things very interesting indeed. I was always wondering what happened to Danzou since the village was destroyed. No doubt he's been keeping tabs on Naruto as well. Either that or Madara will pull off the finishing blow now that his 'tool' is used up.

I also wonder what happened to Danzou in the flashback. Once I saw him there, I had a thought that maybe the reason he lost his eye and became essentially a cripple was because of Nagato.


I honestly don't know what to feel about this chapter. It was great seeing Naruto confront Pain with his answer, at the same time, i'm somewhat disappointed that Pain, the awesome villain who singlehandedly took down a village, has a Sasuke-clone backstory. True, Nagato has a f***ed up past, but how many times have we seen the 'avenge parents/friend' angle. Not saying its bad, just so very common.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

2/3rd the village already knows that the one fighting Pain is Naruto***

got that one for ya... lets hope. Pain should be like their 2012... if a ton full of villagers survive ill be pissed.

[Sam98034]

True, Nagato has a f***ed up past, but how many times have we seen the 'avenge parents/friend' angle. Not saying its bad, just so very common.

I thought his angle was "peace." When everyone understands the pain of war, fully, they won't go to war anymore. He wasn't really on a revenge mission on Konoha, he was on a 9-tails mission. I think he was just trying to make a point with Naruto about the whole revenge thing.

[FireEmblem]

There can't be any peace treaty between Konoha and the Rain. That would be absurd and also wouldn't even make any sense towards the goals that need to be achieved. If they have a peace treaty and the Rain village rises up, some small country somewhere will have to pay for that rise. In the end it'll be the same thing, and that's the main thing that Pain wants to stop.

Naruto will revolutionize the ninja world, meaning he will bring some drastic changes. We already know this is in essence going to be the final answer to Pain's question, when we reach that point. We've already seen that Naruto even has a tendency even before the time-jump to think that way. In his fight with Neji when he told him he'd change the Hyuuga clan when he became Hokage. It'll be interesting (or disappointing) to see what he does. Even if it's "shounen heart" and you don't like it, it'll probably make sense.

[Sidnne]

There can't be any peace treaty between Konoha and the Rain. That would be absurd

Any more absurd than an alliance between the Leaf and the Sand?

[Sam98034]

I don't know about that. The Sand was technically defeated, correct? Konoha had to make some sort deal after defeating them. They were also deceived by an enemy of Konoha. The old saying "any enemy of my enemy is a friend" might have come into play here. But in this case Konoha was defeated, so I doubt they could force a peace treaty.

Also, if Nagato does die here, doesn't that mean that his summon goes away as well? If that happens, they have to scrap the whole tailed beast plan, right?

[FireEmblem]

Any more absurd than an alliance between the Leaf and the Sand?

The person behind the Sands attack on Konoha didn't exactly have this deep master plan to rid the world of evil with MORE evil so it's a lot different. Also this is ONE ninja from the Rain attacking the leaf, compared to a well planned out military attack by the Sand on Konoha. In a sense this is an act of terrorism, while that was a war. Funny though that one ninja did more damage than an entire village haha.

On that note, I wonder if Pain would understand, if someone explained to him that him doing this is making things worse for other orphans, Rain village or not.

When I say it would be absurd, I mean it really would be absurd from a writing/story point of view. Here we have two people with similar goals, but their methodologies that are like night and day. And the underlying problem (people get fucked up) wouldn't be any better if Kishi decided to have a peace treaty with the Rain and Konoha. It shouldn't even matter anyway, the Rain village really has nothing to do with this. If it wasn't for Pain, nobody would care about orphans in the rain.

[Sidnne]

But in this case Konoha was defeated, so I doubt they could force a peace treaty.

That is debatable. The physical village, i.e. the buildings, were destroyed, but its residents live. If Nagato dies here, then Konoha's attacker has died, his goal (capturing the nine-tails) was not accomplished, and Konoha can be rebuilt. Is it really a defeat if "the will of fire" lives on? Its all philosophical, of course.


Also this is ONE ninja from the Rain attacking the leaf, compared to a well planned out military attack by the Sand on Konoha. In a sense this is an act of terrorism, while that was a war.

That to me would seem to support that an alliance with the Rain would be more feasible than with the Sand. Unless you're suggesting that since the Rain village itself wasn't involved in the attack then there is no reason for a peace treaty to exist since the village had little or nothing to do with it?

From a story standpoint, however, it would make sense to form an alliance with the Rain because the goal of Naruto as the "chosen one" or "child of destiny," however they phrased it, is to end war and create peace by uniting all of the villages.

I may be mistaken, but when Jiraiya went to the rain village, was it stated that the civil war in the Rain had ended and Pein's side had won? If Pein was their leader (assuming he was), and he dies, then it would make sense for a leaderless village to form an alliance.

[poopdeville]

That is debatable. The physical village, i.e. the buildings, were destroyed, but its residents live. If Nagato dies here, then Konoha's attacker has died, his goal (capturing the nine-tails) was not accomplished, and Konoha can be rebuilt. Is it really a defeat if "the will of fire" lives on? Its all philosophical, of course.


I agree. Konoha lost a big battle, but they won "the war", because Naruto (for various reasons) beat Pein, who is presumably the strongest in the Rain. Nagato isn't really in a good bargaining position. He can fight and probably die, or surrender, or listen to Naruto and (potentially) make a treaty between himself/the Rain and Konoha, to at least protect what is left. I suppose he could lie, and sic the rest of the tailed beasts on Naruto in a few in-manga-weeks or whatever.

I do think you're right about Nagato probably dying, but I would like to see a real peace treaty between the two. Otherwise, I don't see how Naruto is ever going to make peace in the ninja world. Nagato's whole point is that you can't do it by fighting, unless you're willing to kill everybody. If Nagato dies, Naruto's first act for peace will be "luck".

[FireEmblem]

That is debatable. The physical village, i.e. the buildings, were destroyed, but its residents live. If Nagato dies here, then Konoha's attacker has died, his goal (capturing the nine-tails) was not accomplished, and Konoha can be rebuilt. Is it really a defeat if "the will of fire" lives on? Its all philosophical, of course.



That to me would seem to support that an alliance with the Rain would be more feasible than with the Sand. Unless you're suggesting that since the Rain village itself wasn't involved in the attack then there is no reason for a peace treaty to exist since the village had little or nothing to do with it?

From a story standpoint, however, it would make sense to form an alliance with the Rain because the goal of Naruto as the "chosen one" or "child of destiny," however they phrased it, is to end war and create peace by uniting all of the villages.

I may be mistaken, but when Jiraiya went to the rain village, was it stated that the civil war in the Rain had ended and Pein's side had won? If Pein was their leader (assuming he was), and he dies, then it would make sense for a leaderless village to form an alliance.

I just think that if Pain remains alive, a treaty wouldn't make sense, unless he changes his mind about his solution. A treaty would only help the Rain village out, and would not put an end what he wants to end. Eventually the Rain would become what Pain suggests that the other strong villages are guilty of. That's why I don't think it would make sense or even be a smart choice as far as story went.

At this point, Pain dying in some way is the only decision that will allow the story to forward the way (in my opinion of course) it should. And I think Danzou should be the one to kill him.

[Sam98034]

Don't you think he might have something else up his sleeve? Nagatto's current body might not be the real one. This could easily be another one of those "you may have beat me this time, but you won't beat me next time *poof*" He might also try to summon that eye thing, which should have the power of a few tailed beasts in it, correct?

[Sidnne]

Don't you think he might have something else up his sleeve? Nagatto's current body might not be the real one. This could easily be another one of those "you may have beat me this time, but you won't beat me next time *poof*" He might also try to summon that eye thing, which should have the power of a few tailed beasts in it, correct?

Pein killed Jiraiya, several toads, possibly Kakashi, possibly Tsunade. He destroyed Konoha, brought out nine tails, caused the 4th to appear and Naruto to learn who his father is, caused Hinata to confess her love, and gave Naruto the epic fight of a lifetime.

How could a second appearance possibly top this? Kishi pulled out all the stops on this one; there's nothing left. This is it for Pein.