Bleach 210

[Marik]

[DB]​ Bleach​ 210​ [657E4E74].avi (http://www.dattebayo.com/t/b210.torrent)

Only two episodes of this arc left. :(

[Penner]

Aaaaaaaaaah that was awesome! aaaaaawwweeessssooooommmeee!

[Nintendo]

Great Episode indeed

[Anime1215]

Can't wait to watch this

[The Heretic Azazel]

They could have given Yama-jii a little hair, maybe some brown highlights in his beard.

How does Shunsui keep getting these hot vice captains?

[Nadouku]

Nice episode. However, I am really confused as to why the Captains didn't release their swords. Kensei and Mashirou were technically overpowering them with brute force.

[RyougaZell]

Risking being repetitive... I freaking love the Vaizards. They are the best characters Kubo invented therefore this arc is pure win.

I'll be sad to see it end in a few weeks.

[kmkze04]

That had to be one of the most amazing Bleach eps ever. I watched it 3x.

As for the sword release, there's a lot of viable reasons. At the start, it was feasible that they could stop Kensei without killing him. 3 captains and 3 vice captains versus one H-captain does not seem a difficult match, especially seeing that Kensei was not using a katana.
But with Mashiro showing up (which was my fav part of the ep, btw) and removing one cap from the battle in the process, and pinning both Shinji and Hiyori, I think now they're on the defensive enough they don't have time to release their Zanpakutou without significant risk.

Also, consider that their releases (like Urahara's) may not be suitable for the situation. For example, when Kensei first fought the hollow attacking Shuuhei, he didn't release immediately. He had everyone retreat before using his area-attack Zanpakutou. Using that alongside another captain in combat with a dangerous enemy like H-Kensei might lead to teammate injury.

There are still an unknown number of Shinigami and Rukongai citizens missing, which in the minds of the attack party may be Hollow by now, so they may be conserving their strength in case more enemies show up.

I'm not sure how to explain it either, but the sealed Zanpakutou seems to be the standard for all Shinigami in battle. The only ones who usually release their swords are the ones who don't have a reiatsu-based energy attack and almost solely increases the size or range of their weapons (such as Ikkaku, Renji, and Ichimaru). If their swords stay roughly the same size, just with an elemental or energy attack (such as Rukia and Byakuya), they tend to keep their Zanpakutou sealed until they really use it. On this logic (if you understood what I'm trying to say, haha) all the situations start to make sense. Taking Kensei vs. Hollow attacking Shuuhei situation again, another reason Kensei may have waited to release is because his weapon actually shrinks in size and is more used for the wind-elemental attack. Cutting off a thick tentacle with a short knife is harder than with a full katana.

[Nadouku]

While that is an ideal theory for that type of situation, it's not worth throwing your own life away not to be able to defend yourself properly, or to help others when in need. Even if their releases explosively destroys the vincinity, at least it will help them out, in a way.

I think Hiyori doesn't count since she didn't want to fight, so it's three Captains, one Lieutenant, and one Kidou Lieutenant versus one Hollow-ized Captain and one Hollow-ized Lieutenant. Whatever the case, they are simply overpowered in terms of brute strength and surprise attacks.

[Kraco]

So, these are Aizen's failed attempts at creating shinigami-hollow hybrids, or perhaps these are creations by somebody else, and Aizen just inherits the project? We might never learn the answer. But in any case this sad case might actually give Urahara ideas.

What comes to the episode itself, while it was jolly good indeed, I think these captains really have lived in a peaceful world. They seem far less bloodthirsty than the captains of the later times we are more familiar with. Though I suppose that's an empty point seeing how Aizen, Gin, and Tousen were among those later captains.

[DarthEnderX]

So, these are Aizen's failed attempts at creating shinigami-hollow hybrids, or perhaps these are creations by somebody else, and Aizen just inherits the project? We might never learn the answer.Isn't that the whole point of this arc? To explain the origins of the Vizard?

[digitalrurouni]

Was an awesome episode indeed. That is one of the things that I like about Bleach and that is how these characters all have some back story that makes them the way they are. For example that 69 tattoo on Kensei and Hisagi(dont know if I got the name right)..etc etc. I agree with RyougaZell 100% that the Vaizards are awesome indeed. It was also interesting to see that Kensei as a hollow did not have his zanpaktou on him at all. I just freaking cant wait for the upcoming few more episodes that are left in the arc.

[DarthEnderX]

Well, at the moment he appears to just be a Hollow, not a Vizard, and Hollows don't have Zanpaktou's till they become Arrancar.


I think I figured out what happened now, so something or other is gonna turn all these guys into Hollows.

Kisuke is going to try and find a way to turn them back to Shinigami, so he creates the Hougyek....Hogu...the little magic sphere thing, which gives Hollows Shinigami powers. But when he uses it on a Hollow that used to be a shinigami, it makes them into Vizard.

[Killa-Eyez]

I somewhat understand more clearly also.


Isn't that the whole point of this arc? To explain the origins of the Vizard?

Sure. But Kraco's asking how Aizen got the idea. Did he stumble upon someone else's past work or did he just have a fixation to mix Shinigami's with Hollows and see how powerfull one would get? Makes me wonder also.

[DarthEnderX]

Well, back in the SS arc Aizen mentioned did that whole speech about "there's a limit to how powerful a Shinigami can become. To transcend that limit, he must also attain the powers of a Hollow.

So I'm guessing at this stage and even in the present, he is trying to perfect the process to eventually use it on himself. And that's what I think he was doing in Hueco Mundo. Trying to figure out how to use the Hougyeku to create Vizard, which seem to be the most stable and powerful combination of Shinigami and Hollow, instead of just Arrancar. Once he figures out how to do it, he'll turn himself, Gin and Tousen into Vizard.

[Killa-Eyez]

And how did he know that? That the limit could be expanded by hollows? Did he study it himself? Did he learn it from someone else's past work and continued it? The origins of his goals is what I'm wondering. Thanks for refreshing my mind. :o

[Abdula]

Well done Darth. I agree, with one exception, the vizards are nothing more than a failed experiment an Aizen has no intention of making himself into one. Aizen is intent on making himself into the perfect being and being a Vizard is far from perfect. There are far too many drawbacks to being a vizard and come on as if Aizen would ever put a hollow mask on his face.

And how did he know that? That the limit could be expanded by hollows? Did he study it himself? Did he learn it from someone else's past work and continued it? The origins of his goals is what I'm wondering. Thanks for refreshing my mind. :o
Yeah these were also answered. He was studying it himself and conducted numerous experiments, he even gave us some examples, like Kaien or whoever it was that Rukia killed (the 10th espada) or creating hollows that could hide their spiritual pressure and destroy shinigami's zanpakuto just by touching them. Not necceasary learn from anyone else but he admitted that, by creating the Hygyoku, Urahara succeeded where he failed thus came the whole scheme to execute Rukia. Origins of his goals, an immense god complex.

[kmkze04]

Well, at the moment he appears to just be a Hollow, not a Vizard, and Hollows don't have Zanpaktou's till they become Arrancar.


During the process where the Vaizard were transforming Ichigo into a Hollow, he still retained his Zanpakutou. Since this appears to be the same process (with the Shinigami only partially turned into Hollow as of this moment) I would think they still have use of their Zanpakutous.

[Abdula]

That is not the origin of Ichigo's hollow powers though, by that point Ichigo was already a Vizard he just didn't know it yet. Remember after being attacked by Byakuya back when they first met, Ichigo actually became human and Urahara intentionally turned Ichigo into a hollow, and consequently a vizard in order for him to get his shinigami powers back. It was only after having his little talk with Zangetsu, which in hindsight I guess was him suppressing his inner hollow, did he get his sword back. So I guess whether they can use their zanpakuto or not depends on how far along in the process they are.

[DarthEnderX]

I agree. At the moment they also don't seem to be capable of speech anymore. So I suspect if they can't even talk, they aren't capable of swordsmanship either.

Once they become Vizards and regain their sanity they can probably just reform their Zanpaktous.

[kmkze04]

That is not the origin of Ichigo's hollow powers though, by that point Ichigo was already a Vizard he just didn't know it yet. Remember after being attacked by Byakuya back when they first met, Ichigo actually became human and Urahara intentionally turned Ichigo into a hollow, and consequently a vizard in order for him to get his shinigami powers back. It was only after having his little talk with Zangetsu, which in hindsight I guess was him suppressing his inner hollow, did he get his sword back. So I guess whether they can use their zanpakuto or not depends on how far along in the process they are.

Ah I see where you're going with this. That is all true, except I think that Urahara did not intentionally turn him into a hollow. Ichigo went too long in the hole and consequently began transforming into a hollow. It seems pretty clear so far that Urahara does not know much about the Vizard process, otherwise he would have closer ties with the Vizard in Karakura, and he would have been able to train Ichigo in suppressing/controlling the inner hollow as well.
And even though Ichigo did come out of the hole with a mask, I think it is incorrect to say he was a Vizard. Up until he actually confronted the inner hollow, he was randomly taken over by the hollow completely unlike what the current arc shows.
What I mean is, like Darth said, the H-cap and H-vice cap seem to have no speech power. Yet, when Ichigo was taken by the hollow in arcs before he actually trained with the Vizard, Ichigo did not assume the shape of a hollow like Kensei or Mashiro, and he was also capable of speech and swordsmanship.

[NeoCybercoin]

Well they do not have a hollow hole in their chest or any other spot so you could say they are not hollow. I think it's best to say that they are not 3/4 Hollow and 1/4 Shinigami. If Viazard is 50 Shinigami/50 Hollow with their mask on. If they could shift that line further down the road of Hollow then wouldn't they appear like Kensei and Mashiro do now? Even stronger but still not fully Hollow?

So my theory would be that since they are now more Hollow then Shinigami they don't have their Zanpaktou anymore and lost their human mind.

[Kraco]

There hasn't been a single moment during this show Urahara would have told (or otherwise indicated) others everything he knows. He's a man of myriad secrets and a jolly good poker face. I have no doubt whatsoever he knew what happened to Ichigo, and could have also helped Ichigo - as much as anybody who is not himself a vaizard could have ever helped him. However, Ichigo doesn't want to rely on him (can't blame him; it seems in any agreement with Urahara there's always a catch).

[Abdula]

Ah I see where you're going with this. That is all true, except I think that Urahara did not intentionally turn him into a hollow. Ichigo went too long in the hole and consequently began transforming into a hollow. It seems pretty clear so far that Urahara does not know much about the Vizard process, otherwise he would have closer ties with the Vizard in Karakura, and he would have been able to train Ichigo in suppressing/controlling the inner hollow as well.
I agree with Kraco, Urahara always knows a great deal more than he lets on and I'm not saying he isn't willing to help others but all his actions seem to be motivated by self interest. Just look at the whole SS arc for example, he hid the Hogyoku in Rukia and made her use a gigai that would slowly drain away her shinigami powers and make her into a human just to protect his little invention and all the while he was acting under the guise of trying to help her get her powers back when he was doing just the opposite. Then when Aizen figured out the the Hogyoku was in Rukia and had her brought back to SS, Urahara made Ichigo into a vaizard in order for him to get his powers back and sent him to SS to rescue Rukia and bring her back to the real world when really all he wanted to do was make sure that he got the Hogyoku back. Urahara is no less devious than Aizen is and I think you're greatly underestimating him.

And even though Ichigo did come out of the hole with a mask, I think it is incorrect to say he was a Vizard. Up until he actually confronted the inner hollow, he was randomly taken over by the hollow completely unlike what the current arc shows.
What I mean is, like Darth said, the H-cap and H-vice cap seem to have no speech power. Yet, when Ichigo was taken by the hollow in arcs before he actually trained with the Vizard, Ichigo did not assume the shape of a hollow like Kensei or Mashiro, and he was also capable of speech and swordsmanship.
He didn't assume the shape of a hollow and he still had his zanpakuto and that just proves that he was already a vaizard. Ichigo was a vaizard from the time he got his powers back, Ichigo was just very weak so his inner hollow was very weak which is why as Ichigo progressively became stronger the mask started appearing more and more until the hollow became strong enough to take control of Ichigo's body when he was fighting Byakuya. The vaizard didn't make Ichigo into a vaizard if that is what you're trying to suggest, Ichigo was a vaizard long before then. Even when Shinji first met Ichigo, he told him he should stop trying to be a shinigami and join with the Vaizards because he was already one of them. The only thing the Vaizards did was teach Ichigo how to control his inner hollow so he could use his mask at will.

[DarthEnderX]

While I'm sure he was fully aware of what Ichigo had become, I'm still not convinced that he intentionally made Ichigo into a Vizard.



Also, I find it weird that we haven't seen Ichigo's dad anywhere in these flashbacks.

[Kraco]

Also, I find it weird that we haven't seen Ichigo's dad anywhere in these flashbacks.

Actually, if you think about it, Ichigo is the oldest child yet not too old and Ichigo's dad also knows Ishida's dad, so we could deduce he hasn't been in the material world for that long. Especially if we assume he didn't loiter around aimlessly before getting into business.

I don't actually remember if we learned anything about him, but maybe he got replaced by Hitsugaya, for example, and thus this history we have been seeing now is too old for him.

[Vorlath]

The fact that Urahara is the most knowledgeable about creating portals to Hueco Mundo seems to indicate that he knows more than he's letting on. Ok, Aizen may know just as much or more. But with Urahara starting the Technology Research Department, it all seems to point toward him experimenting with some stuff.

Wonder if the Vizard/Ichigo connection will be explained through Urahara. That's a big realization.

And yeah, kick ass episode. But could someone explain to me why the number 69? Seems like a strange choice for a number.

[Janusz]

What I don't understand is how the captain of Kidou corps ends up as Urahara's servant.


I agree with Kraco, Urahara always knows a great deal more than he lets on and I'm not saying he isn't willing to help others but all his actions seem to be motivated by self interest. Just look at the whole SS arc for example, he hid the Hogyoku in Rukia and made her use a gigai that would slowly drain away her shinigami powers and make her into a human just to protect his little invention and all the while he was acting under the guise of trying to help her get her powers back when he was doing just the opposite. Then when Aizen figured out the the Hogyoku was in Rukia and had her brought back to SS, Urahara made Ichigo into a vaizard in order for him to get his powers back and sent him to SS to rescue Rukia and bring her back to the real world when really all he wanted to do was make sure that he got the Hogyoku back. Urahara is no less devious than Aizen is and I think you're greatly underestimating him.

If you had actually been paying attention you would have noticed that they said Urahara tried, but couldn't destroy the Hogyoku. Therefore, he hid it in a gigai that would drain a shinigami's powers, thereby making the Hogyoku unfindable. Which is as near as destroying it as you can get. He then gave this gigai to Rukia. Unfortunately, Aizen, who was after the Hogyoku, found her before she lost her powers completely. He then wanted Rukia executed so he could get his hands on the Hogyoku and take over the world (muhahaha). So Urahara sent Ichigo after her. To save the world. Not to serve his self interests. Unless you want to argue that by saving the world he is serving his self interests (although that is technically true).

[kmkze04]

What I don't understand is how the captain of Kidou corps ends up as Urahara's servant.



If you had actually been paying attention you would have noticed that they said Urahara tried, but couldn't destroy the Hogyoku. Therefore, he hid it in a gigai that would drain a shinigami's powers, thereby making the Hogyoku unfindable. Which is as near as destroying it as you can get. He then gave this gigai to Rukia. Unfortunately, Aizen, who was after the Hogyoku, found her before she lost her powers completely. He then wanted Rukia executed so he could get his hands on the Hogyoku and take over the world (muhahaha). So Urahara sent Ichigo after her. To save the world. Not to serve his self interests. Unless you want to argue that by saving the world he is serving his self interests (although that is technically true).

Well first, Tessai isn't Urahara's servant. You can see from the flashback that they have been friends for awhile. Tessai seems to just freely follow Urahara, and is isn't like Urahara gives him commands or anything.

And Urahara does not hide the Hougyoku in a gigai. He hid it inside Rukia's soul.

I will agree with everyone else though on the point that Urahara does hide a huge amount of knowledge. He probably knows much more about the Vizard than he lets on.

[Abdula]

What I don't understand is how the captain of Kidou corps ends up as Urahara's servant.
If you had actually been paying attention you would have noticed that they said Urahara tried, but couldn't destroy the Hogyoku. Therefore, he hid it in a gigai that would drain a shinigami's powers, thereby making the Hogyoku unfindable. Which is as near as destroying it as you can get. He then gave this gigai to Rukia. Unfortunately, Aizen, who was after the Hogyoku, found her before she lost her powers completely. He then wanted Rukia executed so he could get his hands on the Hogyoku and take over the world (muhahaha). So Urahara sent Ichigo after her. To save the world. Not to serve his self interests. Unless you want to argue that by saving the world he is serving his self interests (although that is technically true).
Wow, you really should make sure you have all your facts straight before you accuse anyone of not paying attention, especially me. Anyway everything I mentioned above is a fact, with the exception of Urahara intentionally turning Ichigo into a vaizard because that is just my opinion, regardless the end result was still the same.

And like kmkze04 said, the captian of the Kido corps is not Urahara's servant, they were obviously friends in SS and they just live together now, not unlike Urahara and Yoruichi. Unless you think Yoruichi is his servant too.

[Nadouku]

But could someone explain to me why the number 69? Seems like a strange choice for a number.

Well, the only explanation I can think of is 6 is 9 when 6 is pulled down and 9 is 6 when 9 is pulled up, so 69 would be 96, and vice versa. Probably looked "cool" in Kensei's opinion.

[DarthEnderX]

I know nobody else agrees with me but I think still don't think the hole is when Ichigo became a Vizard.

So Uruhara put this thing in Rukia that makes shinigami/hollow hybrids.

Ichigo gets his Shinigami powers from Rukia.

I still hold to the theory that the Hougyeku "leaked" and tainted the powers Ichigo took from Rukia with hollow powers as well.

[lelouch]

Actually, if you think about it, Ichigo is the oldest child yet not too old and Ichigo's dad also knows Ishida's dad, so we could deduce he hasn't been in the material world for that long. Especially if we assume he didn't loiter around aimlessly before getting into business.

I don't actually remember if we learned anything about him, but maybe he got replaced by Hitsugaya, for example, and thus this history we have been seeing now is too old for him.

I don't understand how this history is too old for Ichigo's dad when Hiyori was just a kid back then and is still a kid now. Then again Byakuya was just a kid then and is an adult now... The aging process in Bleach confuses me.

[Kraco]

I don't understand how this history is too old for Ichigo's dad when Hiyori was just a kid back then and is still a kid now. Then again Byakuya was just a kid then and is an adult now... The aging process in Bleach confuses me.

... Meaning the visible ages of the characters have got nothing to do with the time passing in Bleach. Which means it has very little to do with what I said. What I meant is that one possibility why we didn't see Ichigo's old man in this flashback is that he wasn't back then in a visible enough position. Maybe he was a seated officer, made captain (he was a captain, right?) only after the dust has settled from this incident.

Of course the other possibility is that he left already before all this. Though that would mean he spent a century in exile doing little before getting to know Ishida's dad and starting a family. I deem that a bit more unlikely, though not impossible. You could theorize that due to his special nature he might have neeeded a quincy doctor to have offspring and got to know Ishida's dad at that point...

[Janusz]

Well first, Tessai isn't Urahara's servant. You can see from the flashback that they have been friends for awhile. Tessai seems to just freely follow Urahara, and is isn't like Urahara gives him commands or anything.

And Urahara does not hide the Hougyoku in a gigai. He hid it inside Rukia's soul.

I will agree with everyone else though on the point that Urahara does hide a huge amount of knowledge. He probably knows much more about the Vizard than he lets on.

Maybe I shouldn't have said 'servant' but 'assistant' -- it doesn't matter, he acts more or less on Urahara's orders in the real world; he works at the shop and Urahara is the owner.

You're correct about Urahara hiding the Hogyoku in Rukia's soul, but that is irrelevant to the point I was making. Doesn't matter how or where he hid it, he didn't do it out of self interest but the prevent Aizen from getting his hands on it.


... Meaning the visible ages of the characters have got nothing to do with the time passing in Bleach. Which means it has very little to do with what I said. What I meant is that one possibility why we didn't see Ichigo's old man in this flashback is that he wasn't back then in a visible enough position. Maybe he was a seated officer, made captain (he was a captain, right?) only after the dust has settled from this incident.

Of course the other possibility is that he left already before all this. Though that would mean he spent a century in exile doing little before getting to know Ishida's dad and starting a family. I deem that a bit more unlikely, though not impossible. You could theorize that due to his special nature he might have neeeded a quincy doctor to have offspring and got to know Ishida's dad at that point...

LOL @ quincy fertility doctor.
I agree, in my opinion it is now most likely that he was made captain after this incident - after all, it looks like they'll be in need of a lot of captains very soon.


And yeah, kick ass episode. But could someone explain to me why the number 69? Seems like a strange choice for a number.

It could mean a shitload of things. Maybe Kubo liked "If 6 was 9" by Jimi Hendrix. Or maybe he likes position 69. Maybe it doesn't really mean anything, just like 42 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=the+answer+to+life%2C+the+universe+and+everythin g&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=) doesn't really mean anything.

[Anime1215]

Or maybe Ichigo's dad is the 11th division captain and just didn't take an interest to the incident ?

[DarthEnderX]

From what I gathered, Zaraki probably recently became the 11th captain. He just killed the previous captain, so he's technically the 11th squad's captain. But he's still pretty much a thug, so the Captain-Commander probably doesn't have him attend meetings or do missions yet until he can try and straighten him out some.