Bleach Chapter 345

[Marik]

SleepyFans

MediaFire (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/345/01) - SendSpace (http://www.sendspace.com/file/1571dc) - Online Viewing (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/345/01)

Snorlax not too happy with speedscan but they need zzzzzzzz

[RyougaZell]

Calaberas -> Calaveras
Murushierago -> Murcielago

Damn lazy translators. Can't even use the correct terms.

[NeoCybercoin]

It's the motherfucking batman! That's what I first thought when I saw his release. Was hoping it would look a bit more...spectacular I guess. But still I am not sure if Ichigo can win against this. Unless the hollow in him takes control again.

Or somehow Orihime will get up there and use her powers to deny his released for to turn him back =\

[Marik]

Was hoping it would look a bit more...spectacular I guess.

Yeah, his release was pretty lackluster, other than the seemingly increase in speed. Rukia looks to be in a lot of trouble. I wonder who will come save her this time?

[Nadouku]

Did Kubo really need to spend a few pages on the suspense of Ulquiorra's release? He looks like a bat or a gargoyle, judging by those wings that he protruded, but not quite clear when he said, "Bind!" Other than that, I hope the action intensifies in the next chapter.

Glad to see Rukia back in action again, but her opponent might be a little too powerful for her, being able to keep spawning more Hollows as dubbed "The Creator."

[Patriot]

I liked it, keep it simple and powerful and fast. So much so that the first blow knocks Hichigo mast half off. Can't wait to see what's next.

[Abdula]

I liked it, keep it simple and powerful and fast.
Definitely. I was hoping to see something like this and its easily my favorite release so far. Well its not like we've had many good releases, its pretty much just him and grim. Anyway I love his look and I really hope we don't see Ichigo somehow keeping up with him. Maybe the other captians there can come lend a hand, Ichigo and byakuya would be a great combination, but I definitely don't want to see Ichigo holding his own against a released Ulquiorra. Even if his hollow takes over it really shouldn't make that much of a difference.

[David Craft]

Heh interesting Chap. A bit too many drama panels of nothingness but eh w/e. Was wondering one thing, If Ichigo starts to have a hard time I wonder if Grimmjow will make an appearance... Hes still alive down there somewhere since Ichigo saved him.... and he seams to hate Ulquiorra anyways... hmm just a thought *shrugs*

~David

[Marik]

Maybe the other captians there can come lend a hand,

Ugh, I hope not. Three of the captains are already fighting higher ranked Arrancars, it'll be quite sad if the hero can't even beat the 4th ranked alone.

[Abdula]

No it wouldn't at all. It would make sense that the hero can't beat the 4th one since even with all his random powerups he struggled to beat the sixth and everyone above 5 seems to be on a whole other level entirely. Besides I've never liked the fact that Ichigo was stronger than or on the same level as the captains anyway.

[animus]

Oh look Ulquiorra is actually Dracula.

[Death BOO Z]

'wait, was Rukia even in a middle of a battle? I can't remember... though, it seems that after beating #10 (right? stupid shapeshifitng hollow?) and finding a new hidden strength, anything less than espada shouldn't be so tough.

also, Ulqi.
every chapter of bleach looks like a copy-paste of itself. the same kind of dramatic posture, the same face of Ichigo bleeding.
and ulqi's new head looks like he's wearing a merman hat.

[Archangel]

Oh look Ulquiorra is actually Dracula.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll25/GoliathxElisa/gargoyles%20pics/goliath.jpg

[digitalrurouni]

That's the dude from Gargoyles! I remember that show o nthe Disney Channel...was not bad!

But seriously Ulquiorra rocks! And also it looks like Ichigo's mask has changed has not it? Is it a sign of him powering up to the next level slowly? Something like Super Saiyajin 2?

[Tyreal]

And also it looks like Ichigo's mask has changed has not it? Is it a sign of him powering up to the next level slowly? Something like Super Saiyajin 2?

I thought this as well. His masks looks more.... vicious? I'm not sure if thats the right word. But it definitely looks different.

[Archangel]

I thought this as well. His masks looks more.... vicious? I'm not sure if thats the right word. But it definitely looks different.

I don't see where you guys are getting that from O_o

I've compared it with some earlier chapters and i haven't seen any actual differences between the masks

[Abdula]

I didn't really notice much difference at first either but I think the mask has changed as Ichigo has gotten stronger. In addition to that Kubo has been paying a lot more attention to detail lately, previously the way he drew Ichigo's mask seemed kind of random so that could also be the reason why it seems different.

Anyway here are some pics.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/100/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/166/08/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/225/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/283/01/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/345/15/

[DeathscytheVII]

But seriously Ulquiorra rocks! And also it looks like Ichigo's mask has changed has not it? Is it a sign of him powering up to the next level slowly? Something like Super Saiyajin 2?

Super Saiyan 2 would be ichigo going full hollow like he did when he fought the Vaizards. Damn i want to see that form in action again :D

[Archangel]

Super Saiyan 2 would be ichigo going full hollow like he did when he fought the Vaizards. Damn i want to see that form in action again :D

That form looked cool but it was probably very weak since it was just a normal hollow

[Tyreal]

That form looked cool but it was probably very weak since it was just a normal hollow

A normal hollow that was using Ichigo's Bankai sword (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/222/02/)? A normal hollow that made several captains actually worry about being able to keep up with it ( http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/220/04/)? I think it was a bit more than a simple hollow.

[Archangel]

Yes i was quite a powerful hollow, but still just a hollow nonetheless

If he eventually had time to evolve he would surely become insanely powerful but to say that it was more powerful than Ichigo's current state is just stupid

And ofc they had problems keeping up with it, they had a powerful opponent and yet couldn't do anything more than keep a defensive stance during the whole fight

[Tyreal]

And ofc they had problems keeping up with it, they had a powerful opponent and yet couldn't do anything more than keep a defensive stance during the whole fight

Defensive? Maybe. But they clearly had no quams about seriously injuring Ichigo during their fight or attacking Ichigo back (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/220/03/) and judging by a page a few down from that the vizard who was responsible for doing that didn't expect his arm to grow back that quick (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/220/06/), if at all.

[Abdula]

I'd have to go with Archangel on this even though I think he is over simplifying things. Anyway as far as I remember that form was what happened to Ichigo's body when he and his nameless friend were occupied with their battle for control of Ichigo's body. So even though that form maybe extremely powerful like he said its just a brainless hollow so really it shouldn't pose much of a threat to anyone.

What I wouldn't mind seeing is Ichigo's hollow taking over again like it did in Ichigo's battle with Byakuya. That would be cool and if this arc is really just a copy-paste of the SS arc, its bound to happen.

[Archangel]

What I wouldn't mind seeing is Ichigo's hollow taking over again like it did in Ichigo's battle with Byakuya. That would be cool and if this arc is really just a copy-paste of the SS arc, its bound to happen.

That would mean that the hollow mask wouldn't be an option anymore since the hollow inside him wasn't subdued anymore

My guess would be another appearance by old man zangetsu

[Abdula]

That would mean that the hollow mask wouldn't be an option anymore since the hollow inside him wasn't subdued anymore

My guess would be another appearance by old man zangetsu
Well the Vaizards implied that keeping your inner hollow suppressed was a constant struggle and the hollow already gave Ichigo notice. He told him that if he ever slipped up then he would become the king and Ichigo would be the horse. I certainly wouldn't mind Ichigo getting beaten to a pulp and then the hollow taking over and taking it to Ulquiorra, for awhile at least, then they could do a nice emotional bit of Ichigo subduing his inner hollow and regaining control because of Orihime. It certainly wouldn't be a first, this is a shonen anime afterall.

Zangetsu huh. I'd completely forgotten about him and I don't know what he could possibly do to help Ichigo in this situation. Anyway I doubt we'll ever see him again because as far as I know he and the hollow are one and the same, he is just suppressed because the hollow is now stronger than he is.

[Archangel]

Well the Vaizards implied that keeping your inner hollow suppressed was a constant struggle and the hollow already gave Ichigo notice. He told him that if he ever slipped up then he would become the king and Ichigo would be the horse. I certainly wouldn't mind Ichigo getting beaten to a pulp and then the hollow taking over and taking it to Ulquiorra, for awhile at least, then they could do a nice emotional bit of Ichigo subduing his inner hollow and regaining control because of Orihime. It certainly wouldn't be a first, this is a shonen anime afterall.

Zangetsu huh. I'd completely forgotten about him and I don't know what he could possibly do to help Ichigo in this situation. Anyway I doubt we'll ever see him again because as far as I know he and the hollow are one and the same, he is just suppressed because the hollow is now stronger than he is.

Last time he got back on the horse he was completely fucked up by the end of it ( remember him falling to the ground while shinji asjed him how he was feeling? ) so i don't really see him getting possessed by the hollow at this point

I would say Zangetsu represents his shinigami powers while whitey represents his hollow powers, so seeing how anti-ichigo is currently suppressed his inner power should adopt old man zangetsu's persona when representing itself to ichigo

[Abdula]

I would say Zangetsu represents his shinigami powers while whitey represents his hollow powers, so seeing how anti-ichigo is currently suppressed his inner power should adopt old man zangetsu's persona when representing itself to ichigo
That's good enough for me, but I still don't see how he is going to help, unless he reveals some new ability to Ichigo that will conveniently be the key to defeating Ulquiorra.

[Archangel]

Last time he showed up Ichigo was able to defeat ( well it was more of a tie but whatever ) Kempachi, who was recently shown to be more powerful than the 5th espada.

Now add a bankai and a hollow mask to the equation and you'll see what i'm talking about.

[Death BOO Z]

quick question, should Sado also get a power-up if he goes outside the tower?
Ichigo and Ishida are both already there, and they're fighting to save Inoue, so it would seem like this is the perfect time to bring out a three-men tag team to win by teamwork and desire to protect their friend.

on more rational aspects and outcomes, bringing back zangetsu does seem like a good idea. Ichigo masking himself and unmasking the hollow to reveal his true shinigami powers!

[Archangel]

quick question, should Sado also get a power-up if he goes outside the tower?
Ichigo and Ishida are both already there, and they're fighting to save Inoue, so it would seem like this is the perfect time to bring out a three-men tag team to win by teamwork and desire to protect their friend.

on more rational aspects and outcomes, bringing back zangetsu does seem like a good idea. Ichigo masking himself and unmasking the hollow to reveal his true shinigami powers!

The tower itself doesn't hurt a hollows power, its just that the gran rey cero and an espada's release ( one who's over the rank of 4 ) are so powerfull that they might destroy the whole thing, so they're forbidden to perform while inside it.

( i think thats the mistake you made concerning chad but i could be wrong )

[Death BOO Z]

didn't the guy Rukia fought also say something about the effects of going outside the tower?

I can't remember because it's been so boring at bleach lately, But I'm pretty sure the moon light had some strengthening effect on them.

[Archangel]

didn't the guy Rukia fought also say something about the effects of going outside the tower?

I can't remember because it's been so boring at bleach lately, But I'm pretty sure the moon light had some strengthening effect on them.

No, he did remark U had left the tower but i assume he was only surprised that Ichigo was strong enough to force the 4th espada to release his sword

[-=DS=-S.W.A.T3]

would be cool if there is another ascension of a shinigami that your sword spirit completely merges with your real body and have a super shinigami -.- but yea just would be cool...or yea maybe ichigo has a hidden skill Zangetsu will show him-.- *anti-flame shield*

[Tyreal]

Personally I'm hopping we see Ichigo gain some sort of hollow power up, remember we haven't seen Ichigo use Cero or any other hollow powers yet. I think it would work better if the power up Ichigo got in order to win this fight was complete mastery of his inner hollow. The only real reason I think this would work better though is that it would keep up with the mirroring this are is doing of the Soul Society arc.

For example Rukia Kidnapped = Orihime Kindnapped (in both instances Ichigo wasn't strong enough to stop either of these events from happening), Ichigo vs. Grimmjow (although the power up he seemed to get from this wasn't really explained, however I'm sure most of us can agree he did get some form of powerup) = Ichigo vs. Kenpachi, Ichigo vs. Ulquiorra = Ichigo vs. Kuchiki Byakyuya (In this fight he showed he had mastered his Shinnigami skills by using Bankai, so by the same logic he should master his inner hollow in this fight). In short Soul Society was about his Shinigami powers so Hueco Mondo should be about his hollow powers.

[enkoujin]

The chapter was okay.

In my opinion, Tite has been wasting away the potential of his characters with his stiff limitations (Shikai -> Bankai -> Vaizard -> King's Seal). Ichigo has yet to master his Shinigami skills, despite "mastering" the ability to transform into Bankai form. Getsuga Tenshou remains to date to be the only move in his vast arsenal of Shinigami skills without on the reliance of "Hichigo" or the pure Hollow form during the Vizard training.

We have yet to see the Bankai forms of Commander, Soi Fon, Unohara, Kyoraku and Ukitake. And the oh-so-anticipated Shikai form of Kenpachi a few chapters back.

Gin and Aizen have yet to show their fruits of the Hyougoku or their Bankai form yet, so I'm anticipating this whenever they come out of that flame Yamamoto casted.

[Abdula]

The chapter was okay.

In my opinion, Tite has been wasting away the potential of his characters with his stiff limitations (Shikai -> Bankai -> Vaizard -> King's Seal). Ichigo has yet to master his Shinigami skills, despite "mastering" the ability to transform into Bankai form. Getsuga Tenshou remains to date to be the only move in his vast arsenal of Shinigami skills without on the reliance of "Hichigo" or the pure Hollow form during the Vizard training.
I was wondering if anyone was going to make that point.

We have yet to see the Bankai forms of Commander, Soi Fon, Unohara, Kyoraku and Ukitake. And the oh-so-anticipated Shikai form of Kenpachi a few chapters back. I've been waiting to see what Kyoraku, Ukitake and Unohana can do since we first found out about them.


Gin and Aizen have yet to show their fruits of the Hyougoku or their Bankai form yet, so I'm anticipating this whenever they come out of that flame Yamamoto casted.
Yeah and I would like to see what Tosen can do in a real fight.

[digitalrurouni]

We have yet to see the Bankai forms of Commander, Soi Fon, Unohara, Kyoraku and Ukitake. And the oh-so-anticipated Shikai form of Kenpachi a few chapters back.

Gin and Aizen have yet to show their fruits of the Hyougoku or their Bankai form yet, so I'm anticipating this whenever they come out of that flame Yamamoto casted.


Eh wait what? Shikai? For Kenpachi? Seriously?

[digitalrurouni]

Yeah and I would like to see what Tosen can do in a real fight.

Wait I thought Tousen let go off a Bankai when he was fighting Kenpachi...and Kenpachi whupped him!

[Abdula]

True but I doubt that is all there is to Tosen, even if it was then, I'm sure he has more to offer now.

[TwisT]

I agree Tousen is probably alot stronger now. But i do think he gave it his all in the Kenpachi fight. He just got paired up with the wrong dude. I think it was Y who once said that "Tousen's bankai would have fucked up almost any other shinigami except a few". Kenpatchi being one that can use his lack of fear, insane reiatsu and exceptional fighting instincts to counter and do exactly what he did in that fight. Byakuya being another that would be able to attack the whole space they where in without knowing where Tousen actually where. But the number of opponents that would be able to fight that complete removal of the sense's are few. So Tousen was just unluck and attacked the wrong dude.

But i do think Tousen has grown much stronger as a fighter since they left SS. I think he would be able to do alot more damage and be a much more dangerous fighter without using his bankai then he where before.

But i'm no Tousen fan. I actually find him annoying. I'm more interested in Gin. I wanna see more about him since we didn't get to see much of him in SS.

[Abdula]

But i'm no Tousen fan. I actually find him annoying. I'm more interested in Gin. I wanna see more about him since we didn't get to see much of him in SS.
That's funny because that is exactly how I feel about Gin:p

[digitalrurouni]

I agree Tousen is probably alot stronger now. But i do think he gave it his all in the Kenpachi fight. He just got paired up with the wrong dude. I think it was Y who once said that "Tousen's bankai would have fucked up almost any other shinigami except a few". Kenpatchi being one that can use his lack of fear, insane reiatsu and exceptional fighting instincts to counter and do exactly what he did in that fight. Byakuya being another that would be able to attack the whole space they where in without knowing where Tousen actually where. But the number of opponents that would be able to fight that complete removal of the sense's are few. So Tousen was just unluck and attacked the wrong dude.

But i do think Tousen has grown much stronger as a fighter since they left SS. I think he would be able to do alot more damage and be a much more dangerous fighter without using his bankai then he where before.

But i'm no Tousen fan. I actually find him annoying. I'm more interested in Gin. I wanna see more about him since we didn't get to see much of him in SS.


Same here. Gin is much more fascinating to me as a character because we know next to nothing about him other than he and Matsumoto were together.

[Dansetsu]

I agree Tousen is probably alot stronger now. But i do think he gave it his all in the Kenpachi fight. He just got paired up with the wrong dude. I think it was Y who once said that "Tousen's bankai would have fucked up almost any other shinigami except a few". Kenpatchi being one that can use his lack of fear, insane reiatsu and exceptional fighting instincts to counter and do exactly what he did in that fight. Byakuya being another that would be able to attack the whole space they where in without knowing where Tousen actually where. But the number of opponents that would be able to fight that complete removal of the sense's are few. So Tousen was just unluck and attacked the wrong dude.

But i do think Tousen has grown much stronger as a fighter since they left SS. I think he would be able to do alot more damage and be a much more dangerous fighter without using his bankai then he where before.

But i'm no Tousen fan. I actually find him annoying. I'm more interested in Gin. I wanna see more about him since we didn't get to see much of him in SS. I have to go with the assumption that Tousen is much stronger now too. Although I have to say, I wouldn't count his bankai out of the loop just yet. It's pretty decent and although it's odd, it is is cool. I've been thinking about it, and I'm not so sure that Gin and Tousen are stronger thank Stark and Barrigan. They're hollows with shinigami powers. I know Aizens really really strong, but If Ulquiorra is any indication, and he's only number four on the rank, then I don't think that Tousen and Gin are stronger than the top 2. Hell even Hallibel might be stronger than Gin and Tousen. And after he released Ichigo can't even keep up at full power while he's flying around like batman ten times as strong as Ichigos bankai in hollow form. He's just messing with him now. I don't even want to see what Hallibel's released form is like let alone Stark and Barrigan.

[digitalrurouni]

I have to go with the assumption that Tousen is much stronger now too. Although I have to say, I wouldn't count his bankai out of the loop just yet. It's pretty decent and although it's odd, it is is cool. I've been thinking about it, and I'm not so sure that Gin and Tousen are stronger thank Stark and Barrigan. They're hollows with shinigami powers. I know Aizens really really strong, but If Ulquiorra is any indication, and he's only number four on the rank, then I don't think that Tousen and Gin are stronger than the top 2. Hell even Hallibel might be stronger than Gin and Tousen. And after he released Ichigo can't even keep up at full power while he's flying around like batman ten times as strong as Ichigos bankai in hollow form. He's just messing with him now. I don't even want to see what Hallibel's released form is like let alone Stark and Barrigan.

You do have a point...that said however I dont even want to think about how powerful the Vasto Lordes are going to be...because the Arrancar sure as heck are not Vasto Lordes! :p

[Dansetsu]

You do have a point...that said however I don't even want to think about how powerful the Vasto Lordes are going to be...because the Arrancar sure as heck are not Vasto Lordes! :p Well, the top four are considered to be former Lordes. Even Ulquirria. So I think Ichigo is fighting one right now. Their holes and masks all dictate that they were formerly Lordes. I also think that Stark released, would probably give even Aizen a hard time. But that's a theory.

[digitalrurouni]

Wait really? The top 4 were considered former Vasto Lordes? Was it mentioned somewhere in the manga? I dont remember reading that ever.

Also i have been thinking about this...how is Urahara able to fight in his gigai?

[Tyreal]

Wait really? The top 4 were considered former Vasto Lordes? Was it mentioned somewhere in the manga? I dont remember reading that ever.

It was implied. If you look at the sillohette of a Vasto Lord it looks exactly Ulquiolla.

[Dansetsu]

Wait really? The top 4 were considered former Vasto Lordes? Was it mentioned somewhere in the manga? I dont remember reading that ever.
Yeah the top 4 are said to be Vasto menos. Even Nel Tu is said to be one because she was the number 3 espada. However I've been thinking about it and I think that even though the top two are probably stronger than Aizen, they would never betray or hurt him, so it doesn't matter. But it should be cool when he goes all out against Kyōraku. Both of them going all out should be fun to watch.

[Abdula]

However I've been thinking about it and I think that even though the top two are probably stronger than Aizen,
Seriously, where are you getting this from?

[Dansetsu]

Seriously, where are you getting this from? First of all, I said I think. Just an assumption. And secondly, that's why I was trying to back it up with previous fights and espada. If you keep going up the latter, eventually it gets to powerful, and powerful enough to top even Aizen. I mean think about it, like I said if Ulquiorra is released and he Ichigo is having a bitch of a time keeping up in all out bankai and hollow form, then I'm hallibell released would give Aizen's bankai a decent workout. And if you keep going up the ladder using that as an indicator, then Barragan and Stark should be as strong or stronger than Aizen, even not released. So I think they would be stronger than them. We'll have to see though. Like I said I'm using this as an assumption of ranking power. And I mean c'mon, do you really think that Aizen is that strong? These top three espada, hell even top four now that we know Ulquiorra is a Vasto menos, would be that much weaker than the former fifth division captain? They'd at least be able to match him on power. That much is true.

Plus figure this into the equation, If captains in the gaurd aren't chosen for number, then how strong do we know they really are? IN your way of thinking Abdula, the healing lady and Gin should be stronger than Aizen. And that would be bull crap. Now if Aizen made these top three espada that much stronger, than I'm sure there is a reason he chose them as his top three.

1. For protection purposes they're probably stronger than he his
2. They're Vasto menos, most powerful of all hollows
3. There are only three with the rest being basically canon fodder and meat shields

So I think in the end, even released, we'll see mega power from the top three espada and big issues for the captains fighting them.

[Death BOO Z]

what? no.

your ladder of power is based on the (very, very, so very false) assumption that Ichigo released is somewhat comparable to Aizen. and seriously, we've seen Aizen take out bankai captains without trying (and a few captain level reapers).

further more. we haven't seen any captain lose to any hollow so far. Ukitate and #8 captain probably won't lose (what's his name? kyokoumaru?), neither did any of the other lose so far.
in fact, the only captain that will lose is hitsugaya. the boy wonder. and seriously, he's probably the weakest captain in the entire ranks.

I don't think the any of the hollows are vasto lords. maybe only #1. the rest are normal arrnaces (or whatever the title is). we can already tell that the twenty brothers remark was bullshit (there's no way that aizen has 20 vastolords under his belt), so why should we believe he even has one?

as for his top men. he himself said that his vice captain is Gin, and judging by the entire hollow behavior, the next in line is tousen. with Braniggan seeing himself as top hollow. I find it shonenly impossible to think that somebody could be stronger than aizen in his group. unless he creates a super hollow which turns against him.


Aizen, I think, is on an entirely different level. never mind his cunning (second only to Uruhara) and good looks (second to none), he took out captains in the same manner that captains kill bugs. he sent against all the captains, watched his master plan get fucked up, and then went on with it anyway.

I precive his level of strength miles further than that of any other shinigami, including ichigo's dad and Uruhara (who are probably the strongest shinigami in the current story).

of course, my opinion is just as un based as yours, but my initial point still stands, you use Ichigo as a base for your comparison, which makes it all invalid, since there's no parallel lines between Ichigo and Aizen.

[Yukimura]

Aizen took out bankai Hitsugaya with one swing, stopped Ichigo's bankai and Komamura's sword with his fingers, possibly while not looking, and incapacitated Ichigo and Komamura in one move. In all his victories Aizen has only used two attacks on the same opponent once, and that was apparently b/c he was actively trying to not kill Renji and underestimated his ability to dodge. Ichigo has never won a fight against a named character without getting injured and is always in rather poor condition at the end of a fight. I don't think there's much comparison.

[Dansetsu]

Aizen took out bankai Hitsugaya with one swing, stopped Ichigo's bankai and Komamura's sword with his fingers, possibly while not looking, and incapacitated Ichigo and Komamura in one move. In all his victories Aizen has only used two attacks on the same opponent once, and that was apparently b/c he was actively trying to not kill Renji and underestimated his ability to dodge. Ichigo has never won a fight against a named character without getting injured and is always in rather poor condition at the end of a fight. I don't think there's much comparison. Well even if he really is that strong, I'm not doubting that. But I'm doubting his strength in comparison to the top three espada. I think that's where you guys are getting it wrong in my comparison. I'm not comparing Aizen and Ichigo, I'm comparing Aizen, and the top three espada. Most notably, Barragan and Stark. That's all. I'm just saying that Stark should be insanely strong compared to even Aizen. So I'm still going to stick with my guns and say that Stark is the same strength as Aizen. Even unreleased.

Is Aizen a god? No but apparently you guys make him out to be. Yes he can stop bankais with two fingers and take hollows down with almost pure thought, but that doesn't mean that Stark can't either? Or hell even barragan and hallibel.

[Abdula]

Well then perhaps you should wait to see them in action, or see if they even survive this battle, before jumping to conclusions. Not only does the subordinates being stronger than the leader go against all things shonen, but your assumptions are based on nothing. How can you compare Aizen to the top three espada when you haven't really seen either of them in action nor have you seen Aizen get serious, so what are you comparing?

And yes, Aizen is a god, he said so himself.

[TwisT]

Well as someone said Aizen defeted several bankai users without using his own bankai or even breaking a sweat. 1-2 attacks. So a serious Aizen with only shikai would at least be 2-3 times stronger (i say least since he could be 10 times stronger). And if i remember correctly when Yuroichi (or whatever her name is) told Itchigo about bankai the first time she said that in general bankai increase a shinigami's strength 5-10 times and sometimes even more. So if we go on that and take the minimum value for his strenght increases you get x2 for full out shikai which is 2 times as strong and then x5 for bankai and he turns out to be 10 times as strong as he was when he beat several captain level characters. And that is minimum. If we take x3 and x10 we would get 30 times.

I know this should be taken with a grain of salt but if we should go on the only fact we have that is what you get. So to say that #1 and #2 is stronger then Aizen sounds to me like a bunch of bullcrap. If they where that strong every shinigami should have died instantly except the commander.

At least that is how i'm looking at the whole thing. Until i see otherwise i go by the facts given to me.

[Death BOO Z]

I'm comparing Aizen, and the top three espada. Most notably, Barragan and Stark.


Barragan seems to be an insufferable jerk, that believes himself to be superior to just about anyone else, do you really believe he would work for someone who's weaker than him?

Twist: math doesn't work. it's shonen anime, things get disregarded a moment after we see them.

[darkshadow]

Aizen took out bankai Hitsugaya with one swing, stopped Ichigo's bankai and Komamura's sword with his fingers, possibly while not looking, and incapacitated Ichigo and Komamura in one move. In all his victories Aizen has only used two attacks on the same opponent once, and that was apparently b/c he was actively trying to not kill Renji and underestimated his ability to dodge. Ichigo has never won a fight against a named character without getting injured and is always in rather poor condition at the end of a fight. I don't think there's much comparison.

Well aside from Ichigo, he just fking sucks, all the others were due the hypnosis, I think its fair to say that they didn't see byakuya coming, byakuya who was already kinda fucked up.
I'm sure that if that hypnosis shit of his wasn't in effect he would've been fucked up by everyone who was there, I mean they only escaped due to the negacion stuff.

So yeah I wouldn't say Aizen is miles above people like yamamoto, ukitake, kyouraku, uruhara and ichigo's dad at all.

[Yukimura]

I don't think the hypnosis allowed him to stop the swords with his bare hands but it's true lots of people can do that. The way I look at it though it's the ability to win fights with the least amount of effort, not the ability to win fair fights, that determines ones 'ranking' on the power scales. As hax as it is hypnosis is part of Aizen's skillset just like Ichigo's 'super' speed or Tousen's or Mayuri's bankai are part of theirs. It seems like as long as Aizen is strong enough to cause devastating damage to his opponent with a free hit his hypnosis should guarantee him at least one chance to do so. I think what would matter most would be whether his opponent was able to break through the hypnosis to react and counter his free hit and whether the free hit was enough to take out the opponent in the first place.

We know that Shinji was able to detect and dispel Aizen's illusion without any effort 110 years ago. If he could do it I figure the captains as old or older than him probably could have as well, but that was then and Aizen may have improved or been hiding the full extent of his ability even then. In the present timeline Unohana, apparently the most experienced captain after than Yamamoto, seemed fooled enough for Aizen to have gotten a clean attack in on her at any time he wanted. I would expect the hypnosis to fail on Yamamoto just because, but Ukitake and Kyoraku I would put below Unohana in terms of experience and mental discipline and I'd call it a toss up whether they would be susceptible to it since we don't know what special abilities they have.