Anime polls and the rules

[Kraco]

While I love Gotwoot's strict anime related discussion rules, it has occurred to me, after seeing a couple of doomed examples, that the current rules leave no room at all for any manner of polls (like Best Couple, Toughest Mecha, etc.). This is of course a natural consequence of the 'one thread per series' policy. En Fuego actually would allow any number of polls for the select series in that category, but the number of series there is exceedingly limited by default.

So, I thought to ask here whether Gotwooters would desire such an option in some form, like another subsection in General Anime that would be reserved for nothing but polls. It would naturally have thread naming conventions allowing for easy identification of what particular series is in question. The main General Anime forum itself will never be a host to a random number of poll threads.

Please note this thread is in no way sanctioned by the admins, so no matter the results, nothing might still happen.

[Nadouku]

I agree that having another subforum for polls is a good idea, since polls are prone to abusive categories like "Best Couple?" or "Strongest Fighter in Anime History." Those general categories of poll should be separated and kept under control from the General Anime section.

[Death BOO Z]

what, a forum with only polls?

sounds like a spoiler alert. since any discussion about a poll between characters of different anime would lead to spoiling something (even if it's not about the manga, it can also be about an end of a series I haven't seen yet).

still, I'm in for it.

[Kraco]

It would still be under the same rules as General Anime itself (just like En Fuego is), being another subforum there. So, it wouldn't contain any spoilers as such, except naturally spoilers for people who haven't watched some series or are lagging behind the most recent subbed episodes. But that would equal to reading the most recent discussion from any series thread, and as such wouldn't really be a spoiler technically.

Polls are kind of easy and cheap, compared to the "deep" discussion our current rules only allow, and thus might generate extra action that now is missing. Plus they would be episode independent, thus allowing people to participate even if they are late, unlike the episode threads that are heavily centered around the latest ep. Though being episode independent does not mean they would be allowed to contain spoilers (options not yet introduced in the subbed anime).

[Archangel]

I'm not sure...

If you've ever been to animeforum.com you know how those polls can get fucking annoying.

I'm cool with it as long as the categories don't get exceedingly retarded. Just stuff like "Best couple" or "Who would win in a fight"

[Death BOO Z]

suggestion for a poll:

who would you ask for help when you go shopping for a valentines day present for your girlfriend?

1. Naruto (Naruto)
2. Claire (Claymore)
3. Brook (One Piece)
4. Haruhi (Haruhi)

I just want to make sure, that I get the first dibs on the most irrelevant poll .

[Ryllharu]

sounds like a spoiler alert. since any discussion about a poll between characters of different anime would lead to spoiling something (even if it's not about the manga, it can also be about an end of a series I haven't seen yet).
This would be my concern as well. The section would have to end up as something like the Naruto Open Discussion, where all users are forewarned that there will be spoilers aplenty. Any discussion afterwards of the results (the most fun part of polls) would be rife with spoilers. There really can't be a way to avoid them when members are attempting to persuade everyone else that the results are bullshit :D

Polls like "best Rie Kugimiya tsundere" are just asking for that sort of discussion.

Aside from that, I'm all for it.

[shinta|hikari]

I agree with it completely. I once tried to make a "favorite couple" poll for Minami-ke (don't get me wrong, I personally don't like couple polls, but Minami-Ke pairings are mainly for comedy rather than anything cheesy) not knowing it was against the rules and it got merged.

However, there should be a rule that will limit the possibility of spoiling the story for some people, like not allowing possible spoilers (even hints) in thread titles, or citing the latest episode or chapter that is included as material in the poll.

An example would be:

Favorite Kara no Kyoukai Girl (as of episode/movie 5)

This labeling will prevent spoiling for people who do not wish to read about any characters that they have yet to see.

[Board of Command]

Favorite Kara no Kyoukai Girl (as of episode/movie 5)

How can you have a poll with only one option?

I'm not strictly against the idea of polls, but I just don't see them working out due to spoilers and whatnot.

[Buffalobiian]

It doesn't matter to me, as long as the title signals potential spoilers, and doesn't contain any in itself (as Shinta & others suggest).

I'll be a bugger to browse the "new posts today" section to see "Poll: How did Naruto die?" (I made that up. Sorry if that's true :p)

[Kraco]

Hmm... I never really considered the spoiling issue to be any issue at all, but I certainly do see Bill's point there. But by following strict naming conventions, like Shinta said, it could be mostly avoided. Gotwooters are well accustomed to the draconian rules in general, so I don't see why polls as such would cause much extra trouble.


If you've ever been to animeforum.com you know how those polls can get fucking annoying.
What comes to this, the idea would be to have them in their own subforum, so basically you didn't even need to see them unless you went there. However, it would be easy to post a link directly to a poll thread in the main series discussion thread as well.

[shinta|hikari]

How can you have a poll with only one option?

Check my avatar and sig, and you will realize how hard a choice it is for me. It is even to the point that I am not sure who you are referring to, though my guess would be the main character.

It seems that the Yes vote is winning by a landslide, though that is to be expected.

[Munsu]

Even with naming convensions and spoiler rules for thread titles still in effect, I don't think it would work very well. Because even if a thread title isn't consider spoiler, it has the potential to spoil a ton of people because not everyone can keep up with all the series they're interested in and up to the latest episode at that. So I would think even stricter spoiler rules would need to be in place... a new definition of what is considered spoiler (and I think it'll be quite hard to moderate).

I've never been a fan of polls, so I'm not enamored with the idea... but it might be worth a shot with a good system in place.

[Kraco]

If spoiling material in the poll thread titles is forbidden, it shouldn't be a problem. After that, people could only select to visit threads of series they are sufficiently up to date with. After all, you are assured to spoil yourself with the discussion threads as well if you don't keep up with the releases - and that system still works nearly perfectly.

And while such would appear, I still wouldn't expect all the polls to cover multiple series.

[Archangel]

Maybe create another subforum for manga polls and anime polls?


I've never been a fan of polls, so I'm not enamored with the idea...

You're never a fan of any of the suggestions on this subforum O_o

You're too negative dude

[Munsu]

If spoiling material in the poll thread titles is forbidden, it shouldn't be a problem. After that, people could only select to visit threads of series they are sufficiently up to date with. After all, you are assured to spoil yourself with the discussion threads as well if you don't keep up with the releases - and that system still works nearly perfectly.

And while such would appear, I still wouldn't expect all the polls to cover multiple series.
My only problem is to what is considered a spoiler in a thread title? Because by definition, if it has been revealed already in a fansub, then it's not considered a spoiler... so how do you protect people who aren't up to date with a series and have no intentions of entering the thread and risk being spoiled? They're still exposed to the thread title with it still being within our spoiler rules. Is this worth worrying about? I know we can run into the same sort of problem with the Series en Fuego, but overall we pick series that have good release paces and are watched by most around here. Is this a concern?

And Archangel, shut the fuck up. Most, if not all of your suggestions are a piece of shit.

[shinta|hikari]

Well, one option is to make the poll title quite vague, and putting the more detailed description of the poll in the first post.

Example:

Spice and Wolf (1st season) and Code Geass (1st season) VA poll

Then on the first post:

Which character was voiced better even if they were done by the same VA/Seiyuu?

Holo
Kallen

I know this is very rough example, but I think you guys get the point.

In this thread, people can then cite events or lines that were said during the 1st season of Spice and Wolf and 1st season of Code Geass to justify their choices. Anything that comes from other sources, such as Code Geass R2, will be considered a spoiler.

I know this poses the problem of the thread titles being too vague, but clicking and checking the 1st post should not be an arduous task for anyone.

[darkshadow]

vague? why not more precise, like "blablalba poll"[code geass -09] , that way ppl will know that the poll would cover up till ep nine of said series.

[Buffalobiian]

vague? why not more precise, like "blablalba poll"[code geass -09] , that way ppl will know that the poll would cover up till ep nine of said series.

I like this idea. Only problem with that (and any other poll system we'll implement) is that you can get:

Hottest Girl Gundam [First Season]
Hottest Girl Gundam [Second season Episode 2]
Hottest Girl Gundam [Second season Episode 6]
Hottest Girl Gundam [Second Season Episode 7]
Hottest Girl Gundam [Second Season Episode 10]
Hottest Girl Gundam [All Gundam as of 9/2/09]

[darkshadow]

true, maybe there should be some sort of minimum limit how far in certain topics can be made, like hottest girl only from like the midway point or something.

[Ryllharu]

As much as I'd still be for it, this is becoming a logistical nightmare.

To avoid spoilers in the titles, you have to just go with episode numbers, and while that doesn't spoil people who avoid it, there's really no telling what spoiler lurks beneath. Without diligent moderation, there could be huge spoilers underneath a thread title that was intentionally misleading.

---------------------------
Title: Rei or Asuka? Evangelion [episode 1-14]
Post: Shinji [spanks it to Asuka's unconscious body ] in one of the movies
[ spoiler removed just in case ]

So...Rei or Asuka?
-----------------------------

It also somewhat defeats the purpose of knowing what the poll is even about. The latter is a minor point, but it kind of defeats the purpose I think.

[shinta|hikari]

What I meant by vague is not putting in details, like "Which is your favorite death in Naruto, I****, J****, K*** or O****"

Instead, you can simply put in, "Most awesome death in Naruto"

The episode numbers were my idea in the first place. I just used "1st season" as a limiter since that seems to be a more realistic division when it comes to the actual practice.

[Kraco]

Are these genuine concerns for the hypothetical poll system, or are you just unsatisfied with the current anime discussion spoiler rules? By default this would mean nothing but auxiliary threads in addition to the main series discussion threads, with the purpose of allowing polls, which aren't technically possible with only one discussion thread per series. It's not like it would be General Anime v2 with only the Law of the Jungle in effect.

Few people break our current spoiler rules, and I rather think it's mostly due to the people themselves wanting to preserve our current excellently smooth system than any fear of repercussions. So, I don't see why the poll subforum would suddenly become such a huge nightmare.

Besides, Narutos and Gundams make poor examples here, because they have their own forums. This poll subforum would only serve the short anime present in the General Anime.

[shinta|hikari]

It is in fact the fear that the rules might be broken that people are discussing such concerns.

The problem with polls is, the title is generally quite descriptive of what the content will be (ie "Who is the better swordsman?" rather than simply being "Rurouni Kenshin"). This being the case, there is quite a high chance of people being spoiled as they simply browse through the (still hypothetical) poll section.

There is also the issue of combining content from different shows, which might spoil people who have not seen a series involved in the poll.

Even if people are generally good as you believe them to be, many will probably make unintentional errors if there are no clear-cut rules in place.

As for the Naruto and Gundam examples, just replace the "Naruto" with any other anime title, and the problem remains the same.

In short, there are factors involved that are simply not there in the general anime sub forum.

I am not saying that it is going to be a big problem, but for the sake of this idea (which I very much support) to come into being, it would be best to minimize the risk involved. A sudden outburst of spoilers in the poll section right after it is created will certainly doom its existence from the get go, so I say what I do to convince those who are hesitant (like Bud) to go ahead with it.

[Kraco]

I think most of these concerns could be handled by having a sticky rules thread in the poll subforum, containing the stuff already mentioned in this thread:


1) Poll threads may not contain information from manga/novel/game sources not yet introduced in the translated anime.

2) Poll thread titles may not contain explicit information that could be considered a spoiler by a person not watching the series, for example:

Which one had the best death scene in show X: Character A, B, or C?
- Implicates those characters will die.
Which one of character X's 4 mechas was really the best in show Y?
- Implicates the character X will switch/lose his mecha several times.
Which girlfriend of character X was the most tsundere in show Y?
- Implicates the character X will break up a number of times with his various gfs.
Should character X have paired with character B or C rather than A in show Y?
- Already specifically tells with whom the character ended up with.


3) A poll thread will by default allow discussion on all the subbed episodes, same as the main series thread, unless explicitly limited in the poll thread title, for example:

Best mecha in show Y?
- All seasons and episodes subbed so far. Everything if show is finished.
The most tsundere girl in show Y season 1?
- Only season 1 discussion allowed, no matter how many eps of season 2 subbed.




- - - - - - -

Looking at the point 2, it would indeed need careful consideration to name a poll thread and avoid spoilers of any kind, that's true. However, it should also be noted that something written in the series description (AniDB, ANN) isn't really a spoiler most of the time. I guess most people will want to know something about a show before starting to watch it, so not everything explicit is a spoiler.

[gos27]

polls would be really good ! we could find out which are the most popular anime among people !

[Archangel]

And Archangel, shut the fuck up. Most, if not all of your suggestions are a piece of shit.

Cranky are we?

/pats Munsu in the head

So how is this idea going? It seems to have had quite a positive reaction from the forum so what are we waiting for?

[Kraco]

So how is this idea going? It seems to have had quite a positive reaction from the forum so what are we waiting for?

This isn't a democracy so regardless of what the members desire, the top brass does what the top brass wants. And secondly Complich is a busy man with places to visit and visits to place, so it's better not to be impatient or hasty here, even if something had chances to happen. Besides, with Bud, the other person who could do it, against the idea, I wouldn't be holding my breath. Like I said in the beginning, this idea had no groundwork done.

[complich8]

busy like a fox! (seriously, I bet they're pretty busy what with the rodent-hunting and all. But I'm too busy to research that, which in turn disappoints me a bit).

Anyway, yes, I can see a decent reason to rearrange that rule set a bit, but I'm not confident that polls are a good driver of discussion. I mean ... if someone asks you a question with three choices, there's only maybe 8 or 9 posts that can reasonably follow that before the thread contents get absurdly redundant. "Well, I like Horo better because she's a freaky wolf-chick!" "Well, I like Kallen better because she's Kallen goddammit!".

Poll structure is also pretty limiting. You've basically got a short list of questions, when a lot of things you'd want to ask are pretty open-ended. Like, the horo/kallen topic could be better expressed in terms of favorite voice actors and their ranges.... for example talking about how some voice actors end up typecast as exactly the same damned character across 15 different series (eg: secondary love interest in a romantic comedy) where others get cast as different roles and different characters. Or how some voice actors are so easily-identifiable that they can't help but be typecast (eg: Norio Wakamoto), where others have dozens of voices and make up a new persona for every role they play. But asking "Which voice is better: Cell or Onsokomaru" in a poll leaves no real room for anything but a stilted discussion, where "Who's the most versatile voice actor" or "who's the most recognizable voice actor" or any of a dozen other similar questions leave the whole question open.

So yeah... I think that asking cross-series questions doesn't really fall into the "one thread per series" rule, but I'm not really in favor of the constraints that the "poll and thread" format place on the discussion.