Naruto Chapter 434

[Marik]

SleepyFans

MediaFire (http://www.mediafire.com/?gmblticrbr0) - SendSpace (http://www.sendspace.com/file/vd6w6r) - Online Viewing (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/01-02)

[Idealistic]

My guess is the Kyuubi will reawaken within Naruto?

[Marik]

Either that, or they'll get the genjutsu off in time and save him.

[Xscatic]

Either way, I hope this is not how the fight ends. This is too much of a let down........

BTW: I swear this was the quickest 17-19 pgs. I have ever read.

[Rikudo]

Or Gai sensei's team will arrive in time to disrupt Pain. Or the Rain ninja's will make a surprise appearance. Or Sasuke will get jealous at the one Pain manhandling Naruto.

[Raven]

Nobody will interfere, he'll finish it alone. My guess is via Kyuubi.

[Death BOO Z]

I'm thrilled about next chapter yet so fuckin' terrified of what kishi might pull out.

I really hope no one would interfere (likelihood to interfere is inverse of how effective the interferer will be: Hinata, Sakura, Iruka, Kakashi, Tsunade, cloud-nins, Sasuke)

the 'only can do' X clones also seems stupid, but I guess it has to be under some limit to stop clone-haxxing.

edit: also, neat title page. and woot, ten years of naruto?
edit2: CLOUD NINS!!! my bad, fixed.

[Parkalash]

i would guess either Kyuubi power, or the Power's Itatchi gave to naruto, or he gets saved from dunno what..

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Well he hasn't been alone from the start. So I wouldn't be too surprised if team Gai jumped in to buy Ma and Pa some more time.

I'd really love to see it happen, Lee and Gai both with gates opened just unloading on Pain. I cant begin to imagine how Kishi would still make Pain look tough going up against those two, not to mention Neji. My guess is Naruto is out cold until something happens to wake him up. If he went Kyuubi now that whole set up of the genjutsu theyre planning and the other clone gathering chakra would've just been a distraction.

[Tobydelaroka]

Anyone got rapidshare link for the download. Please? T_T (sendspace full max capacity download) (mediafire cannot open pages.) and can't read online either coz I got the shittiest connection speed in the world. :confused: *sadface*

[Archangel]

I don't know why the team Gai theory became so popular, but even if they did show up why would they join in to help naruto while the rest of the village just stayed there and watched? They would probably stay clear too.

Likewise, everyone is hoping for the kyuubi to appear while in fact it seems obvious to me since yamato gave his little speech that it will only appear again when naruto has complete control over it (my guess would be in the naruto vs sasuke fight)

Just because he lost his sage chakra doesn't mean he's completely useless, so i'm sure he'll manage to free himself and make good use of his last shadow clone in the following chapter

[Death BOO Z]

maybe he'll reverse-reverse summoning and send them both into the frog mountain, in order to protect the village!
it'll be just like that other show!

no jokes, though, I really want to see Naruto joining forces with someone new, maybe Kisame and Killerbee, maybe Madare will release him from payne in order to play both sasuke and naruto in order to fulfill his devilish Uchiha creepy wishes.

[Uchiha Barles]

the 'only can do' X clones also seems stupid, but I guess it has to be under some limit to stop clone-haxxing.



I actually like that. It shows that there is connection between the clones and that they're not just individual little Narutos running around independently of each other. In that respect, it's kind of building on the gimmick that Naruto can gain a clone's knowledge by dispelling it.

But yeah, of all the hax jutsu ever, god realm pain's might be topping the list. And man...most of you might hate to admit this, but Abdula was right. It looks like Pain could've made short work of Naruto had he been at full strength from the beginning of the fight. I'm pretty sure Naruto's going to get to summon his final bunshin, but I'm not at all sure the frogs are going to afford him the opportunity to do so on their own, or even be able to summon it on their own. There should definitely be interference in this fight. Unless Tsunade is completely dead and Kakashi isn't anymore, I really think it's going to be team Guy.

[Paper]

i would guess either Kyuubi power, or the Power's Itatchi gave to naruto, or he gets saved from dunno what..


I think the Itatchi power that naruto was given by him is to aid him against Sasuke hax Sharingan

It was an alright chapter, finally they put a limit to Naruto Clone jutsu. Since Naruto seems to be fallen asleep from one of the Pein ,all direction is pointing to Hinata saving him.

[Archangel]

Since Naruto seems to be fallen asleep from one of the Pein ,all direction is pointing to Hinata saving him.

O_o .

[Paper]

O_o .

*Correction*

she will "attempt" to save Naruto :rolleyes:

[itadakimasu]

Sasuke is coming !

[Archangel]

*Correction*

she will "attempt" to save Naruto :rolleyes:

That i can believe in.


Sasuke is coming !

*Kills itadakimasu*

Isn't he like 2 countries away? And doesn't he have 3 cloud ninjas going after him?

[RyougaZell]

Or Gai sensei's team will arrive in time to disrupt Pain. Or the Rain ninja's will make a surprise appearance. Or Sasuke will get jealous at the one Pain manhandling Naruto.

And why would Rain nins attack their own god?

[Munsu]

And why would Rain nins attack their own god?
He probably means the Cloud (those are them right?) that have been confused over and over through the last couple of threads.

[RyougaZell]

I know. The thing is that I've told him twice its Cloud nins, yet he keeps saying Rain. So I was trying to be sarcastic, but I think I failed on it.

Anyways...
Despite Naruto owning most of the Pains... I find it awesome how Pain alone was enough to send Gamabunta and the other two toads flying.

Question!
If Gamabunta is the Boss Toad... what about 'Pa' ? Gamabunta seems to follow him... is he some kind of elder? (not age... but as in superior... like a Toad Council or something like that)

[Sidnne]

Nobody will interfere, he'll finish it alone. My guess is via Kyuubi.

This is what I'm hoping for as well. He came this far without anyone interfering; I'd like to see him finish it.

Obviously, this fight is not over here. The 3rd sage clone is proof of that. I don't have any ideas as to what the illusion is going to be just yet, but its somehow going to free Naruto from Pein. The toads don't seem too concerned that Naruto was captured; they just told him to "hang in there." So, it must be something good.

You'd have to believe that Kyuubi will come into play somehow at some point. Maybe Naruto will use that chakra absorb technique against Pein by pumping Kyuubi chakra into that Pein until he can't absorb anymore and dies from chakra overload. Then they summon the 3rd clone and Naruto goes back into sage mode to fight god realm 1v1.

[Abdula]

Okay Sidnne I think you're dreaming. Given the contrast between the Kyuubi's chakra and sage chakra and Naruto's lack of control over the Kyuubi you won't see him going Kyuubi and then just turning it off and go sage mode again. Besides like we saw when Naruto faced Deidara if he goes Kyuubi he'll destroy his clones anyway.

As far as going Kyuubi we won't see that happen while Naruto is unconscious. I honestly don't want to see him going Kyuubi but at this point the village is already destroyed and he is practically captured so they have nothing to lose but I don't see that making much of a difference. Quick thinking and strategy is what has been even giving him a chance against Pain and if he goes Kyuubi that goes out the door, plus there is nothing to guarantee that he won't freak out and start attacking his allies too. Then there is also the fact that he is a jinchuuriki which is why they want him in the first place so I think Pain is well prepared and well suited to dealing with the Kyuubi.

Ma and Pa are going to have to rescue the golden boy, gee someone saving Naruto yet again, and then we'll take it from there. I have a few ideas of how it could play out but as usual I'm not going to mention them.

Regardless of whatever happens here, what I would like to see is Naruto getting captured thus making this battle a complete and total loss on Konoha's part and then being taken back to the Akatsuki hide out only to be confronted and saved by Sasuke. That would be fresh and interesting which means its highly unlikely its going to happen.

-Oh yeah

If Gamabunta is the Boss Toad... what about 'Pa' ? Gamabunta seems to follow him... is he some kind of elder? (not age... but as in superior... like a Toad Council or something like that)
I thought this was already answered. They are older, and they are part of like a Toad Council, them and the Great sage.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/376/11/

[Death BOO Z]

great sage? I forgot about him... I wonder what super amazing jutsu he'll teach Naruto. I bet that this one will let him win a fight!

if Naruto's kyuubi power has been negated by payne, won't it mean he can now fusion with the frogs?

also.
1. "that jutsu"
2. Itachi's giant oral shadow cock.
3. the secret scroll that Jiraya sent Naruto via the frogs.

[Archangel]

great sage? I forgot about him... I wonder what super amazing jutsu he'll teach Naruto. I bet that this one will let him win a fight!

if Naruto's kyuubi power has been negated by payne, won't it mean he can now fusion with the frogs?

also.
1. "that jutsu"
2. Itachi's giant oral shadow cock.
3. the secret scroll that Jiraya sent Naruto via the frogs.

Those are all future powerups, none of those will come into play in this fight

And the kyuubi's power hasn't been negated by pain, i have no idea where you got that from

[Pandadice]

well i thought it was a kind of anticlimactic end to the chapter, but maybe not the fight.

i can definitely see team guy coming in. i dunno how effective they'd be. and i could definitely see Hinata attempting to do something. i could even see the Sand nin coming to the rescue. maybe Lee will come in, get drunk, do some stuff, then Gaara will come in and finish it up.

[Assertn]

Actually....the rain village is experiencing a civil war atm. I believe Pain's group represents the "rebels" of the village.

[Archangel]

Actually....the rain village is experiencing a civil war atm. I believe Pain's group represents the "rebels" of the village.

No, pain's group represents the winners

When Jiraya arrived to the rain country he asked around to discover that the war was already over, remember?

[Paper]

No, pain's group represents the winners

When Jiraya arrived to the rain country he asked around to discover that the war was already over, remember?

well the rain country is going thru a post-war,Pein is now trying to start a war amongst the countries and that is the reason why he is trying to control all the tailed beast.


Actually....the rain village is experiencing a civil war atm
@Assertn- A civil war is war amongst thier own country, the rain village already except Pein as God and see him as their savor so I highly doubt the rain village is expericening a civil war atm.

[Archangel]

Gratz for using 4 "wars" in one sentence

And what does that have to do with anything?

[Paper]

Gratz for using 4 "wars" in one sentence

And what does that have to do with anything?

**Fixed**

I'm at work using my job computer I can only do so much at that time of post :D

[Assertn]

@Assertn- A civil war is war amongst thier own country, the rain village already except Pein as God and see him as their savor so I highly doubt the rain village is expericening a civil war atm.

Thanks....I'm aware of what a civil war is...that's why I called it a civil war. Pain defeated Hanzo, but that doesn't mean that there isn't any more strife. That would be like saying the Iraq war ended with Sadam's capture.

Wasn't one of the first things the rebels accused Jiraiya of being was one of the non-rebel rain nins?

[ViperTM]

The pain doing the absorbing will turn into a toad thus releasing naruto at wich time the genjutsu will be activated and his last clone summoned and used.

[Archangel]

The pain doing the absorbing will turn into a toad thus releasing naruto at wich time the genjutsu will be activated and his last clone summoned and used.

I would lol if pain made that epic fail, but if that were the case he would have turned into a frog when he absolved naruto's rasenshruiken

[poopdeville]

The pain doing the absorbing will turn into a toad thus releasing naruto at wich time the genjutsu will be activated and his last clone summoned and used.

WINRAR. I can picture it now.

I think the way the Rinnegan is set up, they would all end up being toads, since they're basically beaming chakra/experience to each other constantly. Maybe the absorbing Pein will realize what is happening and stop the transmission. (This beaming is why Naruto couldn't really use kage bunshin to train this time, since if a clone turned into a toad, Naruto would too when the clone was dispelled/murdered)

Or maybe his face will just distort and then there will be a puff of smoke and that two-faced bastard, hundreds of miles away, will turn into a toad.

[DB_Hunter]

The pain doing the absorbing will turn into a toad thus releasing naruto at wich time the genjutsu will be activated and his last clone summoned and used.

That is one cracker of an idea. Well done son.

[Abdula]

Did he really say Pain was going to turn into a toad and did you really agree with him. Now thats the kind of crap that makes me wonder why I even bother to read these threads. Do you guys even know why Naruto turns into a frog in the first place. Freaking moronic ideas.

[Stitch]

Goddamn, what is all this bullshit about not getting in Naruto's way and being a burden and all that trash, etc., etc.??? Pain is whooping that ass! Doesn't Konoha have another sage or something? Has Naruto no equal? Argh... somebody get the fuck in there!

[Archangel]

Did he really say Pain was going to turn into a toad and did you really agree with him. Now thats the kind of crap that makes me wonder why I even bother to read these threads. Do you guys even know why Naruto turns into a frog in the first place. Freaking moronic ideas.

Just go away ffs ...

Ofc the idea is ridiculous but it's so crazy that it would be fun if it actually happened

Not that fun would be a concept you would be familiar with you fucking emo bastard

[Abdula]

My god would you get over it already Archangel. I'm not into you so just leave me alone plz. If you got something Naruto related you want to talk about then let me know, otherwise back off.

In the middle of this battle you think Pain turning into a toad would be fun, just go watch the shippuuden fillers and leave me alone and its hilarious you're still pushing this emo thing too, you're so retarded. Well at least you're always there when I need a good laugh.

[poopdeville]

Settle down nerds. I say what I want, and LOL at what I like. You should do the same. That means giving everybody the same respect.

Anyway, they already said what causes Sages to turn into a toad. If they draw in too much natural energy (guess what that Pein is potentially drawing in), and don't have enough human chakra or concentrating on controlling it, they turn into a damn toad.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/15/

The toad oil has nothing to do with that. It's just dangerous to use toad oil because natural energy turns you into a toad.

"Those who can't fully control natural energy will turn into a toad"
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/13/

This is why Jiraiya looked like a toad in Sage mode. And Naruto doesn't -- because he is better at concentrating.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/17/

[aSilentSearch]

haha hilarious archangel

[Sidnne]

Did he really say Pain was going to turn into a toad and did you really agree with him. Now thats the kind of crap that makes me wonder why I even bother to read these threads. Do you guys even know why Naruto turns into a frog in the first place. Freaking moronic ideas.

I think most of us here wonder why you even bother to read these threads.

[Abdula]

haha hilarious archangel
I pity you.

Settle down nerds. I say what I want, and LOL at what I like. You should do the same. That means giving everybody the same respect.

Anyway, they already said what causes Sages to turn into a toad. If they draw in too much natural energy (guess what that Pein is potentially drawing in), and don't have enough human chakra or concentrating on controlling it, they turn into a damn toad.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/15/

The toad oil has nothing to do with that. It's just dangerous to use toad oil because natural energy turns you into a toad.

"Those who can't fully control natural energy will turn into a toad"
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/13/

This is why Jiraiya looked like a toad in Sage mode. And Naruto doesn't -- because he is better at concentrating.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/17/
Good, very good now considering all we know about Pain do you think there is any chance of him turning into a frog?

I think most of us here wonder why you even bother to read these threads.
Indeed the majority of you are far too childish and far too ignorant.

[Sidnne]

Indeed the majority of you are far too childish and far too ignorant.

Because only the most mature and brilliant minds should be posting on an anime forum...

[Abdula]

Well if that were true you certainly wouldn't be here now would you Sidnne. I just think it would be nice if you guys put a little thought into what you post. Right now it seems like you guys are a bunch of idiotic high school kids having a circle jerk, stroking each others egos and trying to be cool and I just don't see how a post like Archangel's can be considered anything but childish, ignorant and idiotic..

Anyway as far as Pain turning into a toad, like poopdeville posted, there are really only two reasons why people turn into a toad. The first is lack of control and the second is lack of chakra. Considering the jutsus Pain has used thus far and the controlling multiple bodies and such I think we can safely say he doesn't lack control and as far as I can tell Pain has more chakra than anyone else we've seen. The guy seems to have a limitless supply so with all that, turning into a toad isn't likely and the guy seems to have some of knowledge of sage chakra and based on what Shikamaru's dad and a few others have said its seems like, once again, Naruto was the only totally clueless one.

Oh and just for the sake of saying it, this is the biggest and most significant battle we've seen in the series so far. Pain just destroyed Konoha and probably killed Kakashi, not to mention that he had already killed Jiraiya, so turning him into a toad at this point is nothing short of moronic and it would be horrible writing and it certainly wouldn't be fun.

Consider this little Abdula love fest over.

[Sidnne]

Well if that were true you certainly wouldn't be here now would you Sidnne.

Oh snap!

Got any mom jokes for me?

[poopdeville]

And why do you assume that Pein will be able to control Natural energy? Jiraiya studied the technique for years and still deformed.

Controlling natural energy is sage mode. Unless you think that being "Sage of the Six Paths" means Pein knows Senjutsu, or how to control natural energy, if he absorbs natural energy, he is screwed.

This isn't as implausible as some make it out to be. It isn't going to happen though. Oda could pull it off. I doubt Kishimoto can.

[Assertn]

I think most of us here wonder why you even bother to read these threads.
the wise man must lower himself to the commoners in order to see value in his own superiority.

[Abdula]

And why do you assume that Pein will be able to control Natural energy? Jiraiya studied the technique for years and still deformed.

Controlling natural energy is sage mode. Unless you think that being "Sage of the Six Paths" means Pein knows Senjutsu, or how to control natural energy, if he absorbs natural energy, he is screwed.

This isn't as implausible as some make it out to be. It isn't going to happen though. Oda could pull it off. I doubt Kishimoto can.
Well as the link says its all about balance, for you to even be able to turn into a toad in the first place you have to absorb more natural energy than the physical and spiritual energy you already have aka chakra. So basically what I said above is that I don't think the natural energy Pain has absorbed from Naruto thus far is anywhere near the amount of chakra he has so there isn't any chance of him turning into a toad, plus we have no idea how his absorption technique even works.

[Sidnne]

the wise man must lower himself to the commoners in order to see value in his own superiority.

“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.”

-Shakespeare

[ViperTM]

Going back to my theory, I do not believe that the pains are actually sharing the same chakra. the one controlling them all may indeed have a vast amount however it does not mean that he is using his own in their attacks. Case in point, they do not use chakra in the same manner and when one has used most of thiers they are not all weakened as a result.

One other thing, currently Naruto is being held immobile and is aware that his chakra is being absorbed. Scince he is not moving it wouldnt be hard for him to begin gathering more natural energy and shunting it to the absorbing pain. Once again I am led to believe that while they all may be having their chakra's boosted by the one in control I do not think that they are all connected as much as the kagebushins are so if one goes toad it will be only that one.

[skindred]

I know this is a bit off but this feels just like the fight between naruto and kiba. Naruto used his kage bunshins well during their fight and it seems to me that the ones affected by Pain's jutsu are the ones he only sees, or aware of because the other guy is still standing beside him when the toads were blown off. Or is it just in this chapter that this is happening?

[Tyreal]

Going back to my theory, I do not believe that the pains are actually sharing the same chakra. the one controlling them all may indeed have a vast amount however it does not mean that he is using his own in their attacks. Case in point, they do not use chakra in the same manner and when one has used most of thiers they are not all weakened as a result.

Why wouldn't it be possible for the real Pain to be using Natural Energy meaning he has a near infinite supply and the reason his body's seem to "run out" of chakra is due to the fact that the chakra recievers become overloaded or need to "cool down" so to speak.

[Abdula]

Going back to my theory, I do not believe that the pains are actually sharing the same chakra. the one controlling them all may indeed have a vast amount however it does not mean that he is using his own in their attacks.
I think we can be sure that he is using his own chakra in their attacks. In Jiraiya's battle with Pain he confirmed that those bodies were opponent's he had already faced before and those abilities definitely aren't their own. Konoha pretty much confirmed this when they discovered the chakra receivers.

Case in point, they do not use chakra in the same manner and when one has used most of thiers they are not all weakened as a result.
This (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/430/14/) seems to suggest otherwise, when God realm used that huge Shinra Tensei to destroy Konoha all the other bodies were weakened as a result.

One other thing, currently Naruto is being held immobile and is aware that his chakra is being absorbed. Since he is not moving it wouldn't be hard for him to begin gathering more natural energy and shunting it to the absorbing pain. Naruto's sage chakra isn't just natural energy, two thirds of the sage chakra is actually Naruto's own energy and Pain absorbed that also so I doubt Naruto is even conscious.

Once again I am led to believe that while they all may be having their chakra's boosted by the one in control I do not think that they are all connected as much as the kagebushins are so if one goes toad it will be only that one.
I think they are certainly more connected than shadow clones are, not only do they share the same pool of chakra but as we already know from the battle with Jiraiya, they share each others' pov and from the link I posted above it seems that they all share the same mind. It doesn't matter which body is actually speaking Nagato is always the one talking.

Or is it just in this chapter that this is happening?
He is just directing his attacks at specific opponents here, as we saw when he destroyed Konoha or during his fight with Kakashi that technique usually just forms a sphere around his body.

Why wouldn't it be possible for the real Pain to be using Natural Energy meaning he has a near infinite supply and the reason his body's seem to "run out" of chakra is due to the fact that the chakra recievers become overloaded or need to "cool down" so to speak.
Or it could simply be a matter of their being a limit to just how much chakra he can pump into a single body at a time.

[Archangel]

Naruto's sage chakra is just natural energy, two thirds of the sage chakra is actually Naruto's own energy and Pain absorbed that also so I doubt Naruto is even conscious.

Where did you get this from?


That is just this chapter because he is directing his attacks at specific opponent as we saw when he destroyed Konoha or during his fight with Kakashi that technique usually just forms a sphere around his body.

Not rly. It's usually more like a force push, like seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/06/)

The only time it took the form of a sphere was when he destroyed the village

[Abdula]

Where did you get this from?
Its right in Poopdeville's link

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/410/15/





Not rly. It's usually more like a force push, like seen here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/434/06/)

The only time it took the form of a sphere was when he took out the village
Here when he is defending against Kakashi raikiri's, its in the form of a sphere and it even destroys the wall behind him. I think it happens again sometime after that too when he gets attacked by multiple opponents.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/420/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/421/13/

[Archangel]

Its right in Poopdeville's link

I meant why do you assume he's already absorbed all of his sage and normal chakra?

I don't think he would be dumb enough to even try to suck the slightest amount of his normal chakra since that's just begging for the kyuubi to come out and wreak havoc

[Abdula]

The Kyuubi's chakra doesn't just come out by itself or when Naruto runs out of chakra, like Jiraiya told Naruto when they first met Naruto draws out the Kyuubi by himself he just didn't know what he was doing or how to do it.

Secondly I don't think you understand what sage chakra is. Its three different energies combined to form a new chakra, basically he draws energy from three different sources and forms a new chakra. Just like the toad explained normally ninjas use physical energy and spiritual energy to form chakra, with sage chakra you use physical, spiritual and natural energy to form chakra instead, so if Pain absorbed Naruto's sage chakra he didn't absorb just natural energy he absorbed sage chakra. Which is yet another reason why he wouldn't be turning into a frog, the chakra he absorbed from Naruto is already balanced.

He has absorbed Naruto's normal chakra its just that in the case of normal chakra Naruto can just combine his spiritual and natural energy and make more chakra anytime he wants but if he wants to use sage chakra and go sage mode he will have to reabsorb natural energy to add to it, to make sage chakra.

-Get me?

[Archangel]

The Kyuubi's chakra doesn't just come out by itself or when Naruto runs out of chakra, like Jiraiya told Naruto when they first met Naruto draws out the Kyuubi by himself he just didn't know what he was doing or how to do it.

Not always, think back when the fox cloak first appeared.

There's already been more than a few occasions where the kyuubi came out on its out to protect naruto's life ( and consequently its own )

[Abdula]

Not always, think back when the fox cloak first appeared.

There's already been more than a few occasions where the kyuubi came out on its out to protect naruto's life ( and consequently its own )
I'm drawing a blank, you'll have to give me some examples

[Archangel]

I'm drawing a blank, you'll have to give me some examples

The first time naruto summoned the frog boss and the first time the cloak came out during his fight with sasuke would be such examples

He didn't even know he had those powers but the kyuubi came out on its own since his life was in danger and gave them to him

[Abdula]

The first time naruto summoned the frog boss and the first time the cloak came out during his fight with sasuke would be such examples

He didn't even know he had those powers but the kyuubi came out on its own since his life was in danger and gave them to him
No. Those were all times where he was already actively drawing on the Kyuubi's power not the Kyuubi acting of its own free will. For example the first time Naruto summoned Gamabunta, we saw that scene where Naruto was actually begging for more of the Kyuubi's power. Again when he was fighting Sasuke he was already using the Kyuubi's chakra aka fox cloak he just didn't have enough power and was still being overpowered by the Sasuke so the Kyuubi just gave him more power. Neither of those are times where the Kyuubi's is acting independent of Naruto's will and from what we saw when Naruto met Sasuke again, it doesn't appear that the Kyuubi can do anything without Naruto's permission that is why the seal is there in the first place.

[Archangel]

No. Those were all times where he was already actively drawing on the Kyuubi's power not the Kyuubi acting of its own free will. For example the first time Naruto summoned Gamabunta, we saw that scene where Naruto was actually begging for more of the Kyuubi's power. Again when he was fighting Sasuke he was already using the Kyuubi's chakra aka fox cloak he just didn't have enough power and was still being overpowered by the Sasuke so the Kyuubi just gave him more power. Neither of those are times where the Kyuubi's is acting independent of Naruto's will and from what we saw when Naruto met Sasuke again, it doesn't appear that the Kyuubi can do anything without Naruto's permission that is why the seal is there in the first place.

How could he be calling upon a power that he didn't even know he had?

The one to make the first move in both those cases was always the kyuubi, and in the second case it didn't even need naruto's permission supposedly because he was already so messed up and unconscious

[Patriot]

Naruto drawing in more Natural energy now that he is imobile makes more sense to me. Basically, he can try to overload that guy trying to suck his energy in. As for the Fox charka, I don't think we will see that in this fight. Its suppose to be a new era in Naruto, to go to the Kyubi chakra would be like taking 1 step forward and the 2 step backwards.

As for the Pein turning into a frog, it would be plausible, if I recall correctly, they only share the same field of vision through the rinnegan, not chakra. So the only way to defeat the final pein is with the 5 second limitation. Which we know Naruto will do on his second attempt after a major fail on his first one...

[Abdula]

How could he be calling upon a power that he didn't even know he had? Its a really simple concept, besides its shonen it happens all the time and Jiraiya already explained it. Besides Naruto learned about the Kyuubi in the very first chapter so everything after that was just learning how to access and use the Kyuubi's power which is exactly what Jiraiya was teaching him how to do.


The one to make the first move in both those cases was always the kyuubi, and in the second case it didn't even need naruto's permission supposedly because he was already so messed up and unconscious
If you call this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/16/) the Kyuubi making the first move then I really don't know what to say to that.

Its even mentioned again here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/15/), just because they don't show a scene of Naruto asking the Kyuubi for power every time doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

You really don't seem to get what I'm saying so just forget it.

[deadlydreamx]

What about when naruto owned haku? It SEEMED like it just happend without naruto knowing about it.

[Uchiha Barles]

I think both of you are right to a certain extent about the Naruto's control over the Kyubi's power.

1) http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/27/18/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/27/19/

2) http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/48/16/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/48/17/

It's already been discussed that Naruto's chakra started to leak in response to extreme emotion. The darker whiskers and other feral features are physical changes you see in him when the chakra starts to leak. Both of these examples are before he learned to summon the demon chakra at will.

He's had many examples after learning control where it was clear that he intentionally drew out the fox chakra, including the first fight against itachi and kisame, the rooftop fight against Sasuke, and as Abdula mentioned, in the second fight against Sasuke before he got impaled by Sasuke's chidori.

Naruto has the passive ability to rapidly heal from at least minor injuries: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/11/02/. Mind you, this is also before he learned to control the demon chakra.

I wouldn't call Sasuke stabbing him in the right lung a minor injury, so it's hard to say if healing that was passive or if he needed to purposefully summon extra chakra, but then again, that was the first time we saw the demon cloak (enough chakra leaking to show tails). I'd like to think that most of what we see him do with the demon energy is a combination of both passive abilities and conscious use of the power.

That being said, Abdula's right. The demon chakra comes out either to emotional flares in Naruto, or Naruto's purposeful call upon it. It has nothing to do with how much of his normal chakra he has left. Jiraiya made him empty out his normal chakra reserves so that he'd have to rely on the demon chakra to pull anything off during training after the preliminary matches of the chuunin exams. The remaining normal chakra has no other significance to drawing out demon chakra, from what we've seen so far. If they change that in the future, so be it.

[Archangel]

Its a really simple concept, besides its shonen it happens all the time and Jiraiya already explained it. Besides Naruto learned about the Kyuubi in the very first chapter so everything after that was just learning how to access and use the Kyuubi's power which is exactly what Jiraiya was teaching him how to do.
Seems a little lame to explain something in a shonen series by saying "because that's what usually happens in the genre"

And there's a big difference between knowing you have a power and actually using it


If you call this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/16/) the Kyuubi making the first move then I really don't know what to say to that.

Its even mentioned again here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/308/15/), just because they don't show a scene of Naruto asking the Kyuubi for power every time doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
All you had to do was go back a couple of pages here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/14/)

He didn't even know what the kyuubi was and yet he found himself consciously talking to it in its "domain" ( or whatever that is )

And that second page just makes my point, why would he summon the kyuubi and then tell it to fuck off? If anything it means the more the seal degenerates the more free will the fox has over naruto's body


You really don't seem to get what I'm saying so just forget it.
We're having a good discussion here, try not to ruin it by being a douchebag ok?


That being said, Abdula's right. The demon chakra comes out either to emotional flares in Naruto, or Naruto's purposeful call upon it. It has nothing to do with how much of his normal chakra he has left.
I beg to differ

Like i said it seems that the kyuubi's power over naruto has gotten bigger over time so if he found himself unconscious and with almost no chakra to the point it would be life threatening i can totally picture the nine tails coming out.

[Abdula]

We're having a good discussion here, try not to ruin it by being a douchebag ok?
Wow. Do you have to react that way to absolutely everything I post. I think my posts would be much easier for you to understand if you didn't have such as extremely negative perception of me. You're too easily offended and you take things way too personally.

Anyway basically what I meant is that you simply just don't get what I'm saying, which is true enough, and I don't think its worth discussing but if you insist I'll give it one last try.



Seems a little lame to explain something in a shonen series by saying "because that's what usually happens in the genre"

And there's a big difference between knowing you have a power and actually using it
Like I said its a very simple concept. Just think of it more realistically. In life you don't have to be taught how to do something or even know exactly what you're doing to be able to do it. Some things you are just able to do naturally and some things you pick up or start doing without even noticing. As far as the shonen thing goes I don't know how you didn't get that. There are plenty of examples of shonen heroes using powers they don't even know they have, Ichigo's Getsuga is another example. Like I said its a simple concept.


All you had to do was go back a couple of pages here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/95/14/)
Surely if you just went back a couple of pages before that you would see that before then Naruto was attempting furiously to summon Gamabunta and was unable to do so, he even attempted to grab onto the walls by himself and when that failed he made a conscious effort to try and get to the Kyuubi and that is how he ended up there in the first place. Plus like the link I posted showed the Kyuubi didn't volunteer his help, like the Kyuubi said Naruto pretty much blackmailed him.


He didn't even know what the kyuubi was and yet he found himself consciously talking to it in its "domain" ( or whatever that is ) Yes he knew what the Kyuubi was he just didn't know how to get to its power, which is what Jiraiya was trying to teach him to do. The title of the chapter right before that one is "Key" and its all about Jiraiya trying to find the key to Naruto accessing the Kyuubi's power which turned out to be strong emotion.


And that second page just makes my point, why would he summon the kyuubi and then tell it to fuck off? If anything it means the more the seal degenerates the more free will the fox has over naruto's body
Like Yamato explained and the Kyuubi implied in that link I posted. Naruto has pretty much been dependent on the Kyuubi since he became a ninja and when he is in a pinch he naturally draws on the Kyuubi's power. In this case he was just overpowered and pretty much humiliated by Sasuke and so he did what he normally does, he started drawing on the Kyuubi's power like he did the first time he fought Sasuke and in the battle right before that scene when he fought Orochimaru. The only thing that happened here was that Yamato had just told Naruto that he was the one who hurt Sakura so when he remembered that he caught himself and stopped before he went too far so he wouldn't hurt his allies again. If the Kyuubi could simply do what it wants and take over without Naruto's permission it certainly wouldn't have needed to essentially beg Naruto to use its power.

PS the seal is not degenerating. Old theory that was suggested by a few people, let it go, we know better now. The seal is designed to gradually allow Naruto to access more and more of the Kyuubi's chakra and the only reason he is getting overpowered by the Kyuubi now is because Jiraiya manually loosened the seal and released more of the Kyuubi's chakra than Naruto is able to handle. If you just reread most of those older chapters you would understand most of what I'm talking about and save me the trouble of having to type all this.


I beg to differ

Like i said it seems that the kyuubi's power over naruto has gotten bigger over time so if he found himself unconscious and with almost no chakra to the point it would be life threatening i can totally picture the nine tails coming out.
It won't, not unless he wants it to. I just mentioned why Naruto is now able to use more of the Kyuubi's chakra than he was before and the only reason we have been seeing more and more of the Kyuubi was because the stronger the opponent Naruto faced the more he had to depend on the Kyuubi's power. The very reason Kakashi had Yamato there when Naruto was learning the wind rasengan was so Naruto wouldn't be depending on the Kyuubi and as such would learn to use his own power.


Chihuahua Barles
Btw, that is not funny and that is exactly what I'm talking about when I said you guys are too immature.

[Uchiha Barles]

I beg to differ

Like i said it seems that the kyuubi's power over naruto has gotten bigger over time so if he found himself unconscious and with almost no chakra to the point it would be life threatening i can totally picture the nine tails coming out.

The problem is, I can't think of a situation where the demon chakra came out without him having a lot of emotion. Demon chakra --> emotional naruto, even if the other way isn't true. We haven't seen a single example of naruto's chakra leaking in large amounts without the emotion. We haven't even had a character speak to that. So what makes you think that it would be otherwise?





Btw, that is not funny and that is exactly what I'm talking about when I said you guys are too immature.

Awww, come on, it's a little funny.

[Sidnne]

Btw, that is not funny and that is exactly what I'm talking about when I said you guys are too immature.

I'm not asking this to be a smartass, I'm being dead serious... Are you a 13 year-old girl?

[12345p]

*POOF* goes the unconscious shadow clone being held by Pein.

Well I guess that would be a difficult in reality because his Shenra Tensei should have dispelled the jitsu. Or perhaps not since that clone could have used natual energy to absorb the impact, just like it used natural energy to absorb the "clothes line" capture technique used by the other Pein.

In any event, the last Naruto clone is actually Naruto and will be summoned by ma and pa.

Hehe, just a thought.