Naruto Shippuuden Episode 86-87

[Buffalobiian]

[DB] Naruto Shippuuden 086-087 avi (http://www.mininova.org/get/2065873) @ Mininova

Comments claim it's the real deal. DB torrent site still down at time of posting.

Edit after watching: It's DB. [B]Preview is....okay, I guess. Still better off without.

[Pessu]

Yup its the real deal. Some kind of a "troll" i guess since they wouldnt post in on their own site.

But MAAAAAAAAAAAN was that one KICKAAAAAAAAS episode! Or two of them :p

Kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time. Animation was decent, no stretching and minimum flashbacks.

Narutos new tech is kinda lame since its just a stronger rasengan with two clones instead of one now :P But hey atleast he can use his clones more efficiently now.

[tystic]

I can see the DB site, there's a news post about christmas cards, but no Naruto release listed yet.

[Kraco]

I think this (double)episode was a bit stretched or at least had a much slower pace than the previous uber kickass one. But still a very nice ep. There was one thing, though, that greatly bothered me: How both Kakashi and Shikamaru used such a long time to explain the plan to the villains. What merit whatsoever does such an action serve? It didn't matter much to Shikamaru or may have even be necessary because it was a personal revenge for him and the continuation of his plan allowed it anyway, but for Kakashi it was quite a mistake. He should have used the time to turn Kakuzu's body into minced meat or charcoal, starting from the head.

It was also funny how Chouji attacked the hairy trolls with all he had got, and they just continued running as if nothing had happened. Looks like Kakashi isn't the only one who could learn a thing or two from this battle.

[Buffalobiian]

Well well, should I be surprised they can pump out good episodes one after another? -Anyhow, this one was very enjoyable. It was stretched at some points. The main one for me was Kakashi explaining the situation to Yamato. It wasn't that bad, but hearing it again sure wasn't entertaining.

-I'm not sure if Shikamaru's plan on keeping Hidan's head there is foolproof. If Akatsuki keeps tabs on their men at all, Zetsu will be right there to clean up the place. We know their leader can communicate telepathically with them, so as long as Hidan has a brain, he can call for help.

-Naruto's Rasengan-Shuriken reminds me of the good old Zabuza arc. Let's hope it means there's more good things to come. Kakuzu losing his cool a bit felt like the typical cheezy Shounen main-character-made-a-new-awesome-technique lines. I don't mind him acknowledging that it'll KO if it hits, but sweating like that and all really isn't Kakuzu. Surely he's seen the face of death a few times to keep his cool. I know he's not freaking out, but he's getting there.

-New cinematic trailer was interesting, and I doubt it'll happen every episode. It's probably there to simply introduce the new arc. Meanwhile, the woman Orochimaru summoned (presumably) looks suspiciously filler-like. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

-Cocoon-sleepless Yamato was hilarious.

---------------------------------------------
Edit: This new release method makes me scratch my head. Are they thinking of getting around "not subbing Naruto" by simply not hosting the torrent? For now, I'm going to assume it was a technical problem on DB's side.

Edit2: -Kakashi said "So water attacks aren't enough to stop a fire-wind combination." Depending on how you look at that, it could mean he had enough confidence that his water attack may have been enough to stop either a fire or wind attack. Assuming those elemental attacks are high level, one would expect it takes an equally high one to counter it, elemental advantages aside. So, Kakashi is also a water type?

[Assertn]

I figured Kakashi was water and lightning affinity....

[Azonalanthious]

Ya know, this is the first episode in a long, long time where Naruto actually impressed me. The new rasengen looks cooler then I expected, but what really got me was the clone work. The village idiot appears to be finally growing a brain. A Naruto who thinks things through and plans intelligently would be far more dangerous and much more enjoyable to watch, even with no new techniques.

One of the things I loved about him way back in the day which has fallen by the wayside what the whole 'number one noisy ninja at suprising people.' He used to improvise and come up with unusual and interesting tactics like cloning underwater in the survival test with Kakashi, turning into the shruiken vs Zabuza, or even using his rasengen to create a whirlpool back in the race arc. But lately its all been 'ooh, he had a lot of stamina, ooh, he has a powerful attack, ooh he's dumb as a brick." Which is no where near as interesting. Here's to hoping that the intelligent use of clones is a good sign for the future.

[Pandadice]

well, I didn't like the shikamaru and Asuma flash back, or the whole taking forever to explain the plan. I didn't like seeing Asuma's ghost, that was weird, and the deer thing was just kinda like "what..?". and I don't get how so many explosive tags made such a tiny concealed explosion. they've so inconsistent with those things.

but I did like seeing shikamaru's plan go into action. awman, when he slashed his throat. that was such a cool part. and then Yamato coming in was cool. seeing naruto's new technique was kinda 'meh'. him 'using the clones on a new level' thing was kinda like 'uhh?'.

and didn't kakashi use an earth move, and then a water move? so can he use 3 things?

[Abdula]

Naruto has his moments, but they are just that moments.

no stretching and minimum flashbacks.
You've got to be kidding me. As is the norm with these hour long specials this one was watered down with stretching, flashbacks and filler material. It was terrible.

I figured Kakashi was water and lightning affinity....
Uh huh..........:rolleyes: :D


@ Bill: That is indeed filler, and it explains why they didn't show the three tails before. They are saving it for a filler arc.:( This show has really gone down the drain.



and didn't kakashi use an earth move, and then a water move? so can he use 3 things?

I think I mentioned this two episodes ago, but just in case I didn't. That technique Kakashi uses when he hides underground is a skill. Much like walking up trees, or walking on water its a skill anyone can learn and doesn't require any elemental recomposition.

[tystic]

No stretching and minimum flashbacks... I was thinking of that during the whole ep and wondering, how much of this did that poster sleep through?

Even with that, an enjoyable episode. Shikamaru is awesome as usual, Naruto gets the upper hand in the perfect position to lose it, you know all the stuff that makes this show great.

[Azonalanthious]

To be fair, the flashbacks were at least nearly all new material, rather then just reshowing clips from previous shows. I would prefer no flashbacks, but these were better then a lot of the other flashbacks we've been subject to.

[tystic]

True, the Asuma flashback was good. I was also wondering why they flashed back for the attack on Kakuzu, for about a minute, then I was like "oooooh so THATS how Shikamaru did it..." and it was worth it.

The insomnia Yamato clip was funny. Rasengan when sleeping, I hope he has homeowner's insurance!

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, that wind rasengan came out way cooler looking than I thought it was gonna. A giant shuriken? Awesome. And ninja-ish for once. Sometimes, you start to forget that this show is supposed to be about ninjas and not wizards.

I really don't buy the "these magic deer will make sure you never get out" part of Shikamaru's plan either. I was with him right up till that point. Blowing him up like that? Beautiful. I was really hoping that he had maybe researched Jashin and figured out how Hidan was staying alive and came up with the counter for it. Instead its...well, its like has already been said, I'd be surprised if those deer are able to keep Zetsu from digging up Hidan.


I think I mentioned this two episodes ago, but just in case I didn't. That technique Kakashi uses when he hides underground is a skill. Much like walking up trees, or walking on water its a skill anyone can learn and doesn't require any elemental recomposition.Hmm, digging a hole like Naruto once did might be. But the way Kakashi swims through the earth is most likely not. Either way, Kakashi most definitely knows Earth-style jutsu.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/7/12/

Earth type, or as the english translation would call it, Earth style. He's not copying that technique from anyone either. And that's the exact same technique he used on the lightning mask this episode.

So at this point, Kakashi can clearly use at least 3 elements.


So is the trailer at the end, like, a movie, or an OVA or what?

[Buffalobiian]

He's not copying that technique from anyone either. The sharingan only needs to see it once to use it again. Ever. Officially, Kakashi's only original technique is his Raikiri. Other moves he either copied from people, or common moves everybody learns.

As for the deer, I'm pretty sure Shikamaru said his clan will make sure he never gets out. His clan owns the land, and only they enter. The deer was just for effect. (Shika means "deer".) At first, I thought those deer were going to eat Hidan :D

Rasengan-Shuriken implies you can throw it. I wonder if you can control its flight path using wind manipulation?

[DarthEnderX]

As for the deer, I'm pretty sure Shikamaru said his clan will make sure he never gets out. His clan owns the land, and only they enter. The deer was just for effect. (Shika means "deer".) I see. Still. How big is Shikamaru's clan? I wouldn't really places any wagers on them vs. Akatsuki should they decide they want Hidan back.


The sharingan only needs to see it once to use it again. Ever. Officially, Kakashi's only original technique is his Raikiri. Other moves he either copied from people, or common moves everybody learns.Yeah I know. I was just clarifying.
Rasengan-Shuriken implies you can throw it. I wonder if you can control its flight path using wind manipulation?Haha, so Naruto has become Krillin?

Destruction Disk!

[Assertn]

I always figured Shika meant the land was guarded by some holy ancestral powers or something.

[Jeff_from_MD]

The upbeat soundtrack at 8:50 was good sh** (when Shikamaru swipes at Hidan's neck). I always appreciate it when they introduce the electric guitar back into the ensemble, since it really kicks ass over the otherwise arabian-esque character of Shippuden's music.

[KrayZ33]

but it sucks that they are only playing the songs for like 5 second and interrupt it with a flashback or showing the same scene a second time just without the music...

I think that happened for like 4-5 times in this episode.

once again they killed the whole tension by doing so

ep 85 was alot better than this
even though 86-87 had a lot more potential (the explanations and such were too long for me)

Shikamaru and his "Deer-Forest" was not so good.. mysterious animals and such should stay with jidai-geki themed animes in my opinion. At least I couldn't really understand why *his* clan has its own forest, or why there are some weird magical(?) deers in it


well, the episode was "okay".. it's just that they could have make it 10 times better if they wouldn't insist on cliffhanger endings and squeezing out everything.

[Assertn]

once again the lack of imagination in these posts prove why kishimoto has to beat shit with a dead horse in his explanations.

[Uberbaka]

Why on earth does everyone think there's anything special about the deer? It's just a forest that belongs to his family that has (Shika) deer in them... Why can't they be the caretakers of a forest outside of Konoha?

Have the deer actually done anything at all? No.

And haven't we only seen the telepathic link when they sit down to communicate? Perhaps it involves handseals which could be quite tricky to accomplish in Hidans current state, and if nobody knows where he is then it's safe to say they wouldn't find him. And his family should be relatively strong since he himself planned the takedown of no less than two Akatsuki members on his own...

This/these ep(s) had too many sporadic flashbacks and explanation scenes for my taste...

[ASSpirine]

way too many flashbacks, they could have made the best episode ever if they picked up the pace.

About the deers, I kinda thought the deers would eat up the bits and pieces of Hidan
But we're still not sure how dead he is...

I kinda love it that I was right about the blood of Kakuzu. But it was really obvious in my thought.

[Assertn]

Uh also....there's no point in recovering Hidan if Kakuzu is defeated.

[Elendril]

Did any of you guys put anything into that Narutos eyes where blue 9 tails eyes or where that just me? :P

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Did any of you guys put anything into that Narutos eyes where blue 9 tails eyes or where that just me? :P

I kinda liked that. Showed that he was taking the power, but not being taken over by it a little. More or less just focusing more.

Loved that he used his Kagebunshins to run and get killed and then took their experience fom it. That in it self was a huge accomplishment for Naruto.

Also really liked the Wind Rasengan. I have a set of Bose speakers and the noise that it was making was actually hurting my ears, so that is always good!

All in all, kinda slow towards the middle, but good all the way around.

[Abdula]

Hmm, digging a hole like Naruto once did might be. But the way Kakashi swims through the earth is most likely not. Either way, Kakashi most definitely knows Earth-style jutsu.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/7/12/

Earth type, or as the english translation would call it, Earth style. He's not copying that technique from anyone either. And that's the exact same technique he used on the lightning mask this episode.

So at this point, Kakashi can clearly use at least 3 elements.
Its funny that you would say that when in the very same link you posted it says its a skill and knowing an Earth-style skill is very different from having Earth type nature manipulation. Anyway I'll say it again, there was only one timee Kakashi actually used an earth technique and that was in his fight against Zabuza and that doesn't count because he used a scroll.

Anyway on the subject of Kakashi's use of elements, does anyone find it strange that he used that water wall technique out of nowhere when there was no water in sight, because he used a different technique in the manga and that was one of the changes they made that I thought was just strange.

once again the lack of imagination in these posts prove why kishimoto has to beat shit with a dead horse in his explanations.
:D


-Oh and the dialogue in this episode was terrible.

[DDBen]

Its funny that you would say that when in the very same link you posted it says its a skill and knowing an Earth-style skill is very different from having Earth type nature manipulation. Anyway I'll say it again, there was only one timee Kakashi actually used an earth technique and that was in his fight against Zabuza and that doesn't count because he used a scroll.

Anyway on the subject of Kakashi's use of elements, does anyone find it strange that he used that water wall technique out of nowhere when there was no water in sight, because he used a different technique in the manga and that was one of the changes they made that I thought was just strange.


Um what are you talking about Abdula. First off Kakashi has constantly used earth Jutsu he has gone into the ground on MANY occasions and I find it hard to believe that could be considered anything else.

Second Kakashi used the same water Technique in the manga.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/336/12/

So yeah that wasn't a change at all.

[Buffalobiian]

At least I couldn't really understand why *his* clan has its own forest, The Shika clan are Konoha's pharmacists, in charge of collecting, documenting and storing medical ingredients. Chouji was saved after consuming the red pill because of the Shika clan's research and Tsunade's skills.

They also mentioned that they had a research facility up near the mountains, which the tiger fellow broke into and made the failed potion Oro gave him. (that was filler, I think, so it probably shouldn't count)

If their owning a forest or two is questionable, so is te reason the Uchiha exclusively run the police department.

[Killa-Eyez]

I agree with the majority of opinions, kinda slow and too much explanation but interesting none the less. And a funny "rough sleeper" comic relief to add to it. Yeah I laughed. Yeah I thought it was funny...
Though the characters looks were more accurate, the animation itself was poorer then the previous episode. Can't have it all I guess.

[DarthEnderX]

Its funny that you would say that when in the very same link you posted it says its a skill and knowing an Earth-style skill is very different from having Earth type nature manipulation.That's only the way that particular translator chooses to tranlate the word Doton.

Cybernetic says Doton = Earth type skill
VIZ says Doton = Earth Style
DB says Doton = Earth Element

It's the same word that precedes all Earth element jutsu.

Just like Suiton(VIZ = Water Style) precedes all Water elemental jutsu.

And how Katon(VIZ = Fire Style) precedes all Fire elemental jutsu.

Sorry Abdula, but you are wrong, and this time, the Manga comes out and says you are wrong. That is Kakashi using an earth element jutsu without a scroll.

You can argue if you want, but you're arguing with the manga's writer at that point, which means you automatically lose.

[Artris]

I thought nature type techniques were avaiable to all, only the higher level techniques of each type are very taxing or impossible to do without an affinity. For example all of the environment-changing jutsu we've seen from kakashi have been water type, while chidori (as one of his most damaging attacks) is lightning type.

What I'm getting at is Kakashi can use the lower level techniques of fire, air, earth but would have trouble with the higher level techniques. To support this notion, just consider that most nins have a strong affinity, and a lesser second affinity (at least, the anime mentions this: I don't read the manga). This implies that affinity is ranked, and so while they have access to all nature types, the lower ones are too weak to be useful.

[Abdula]

Why do I even bother seriously, why. Well I won't anymore.

DDBen, wow. Really, just wow.

[DarthEnderX]

DDBen, wow. Really, just wow.What? You have a problem with how you said something that was completely untrue about the manga and he showed us that you were wrong/lying?

By all means, take a break. I'll be sure to link this thread when you show up again and try and pretend it didn't happen.

[Buffalobiian]

From the animation, it seems both the manga and anime drew the Water Barricade, similar to the Third's Earth Barricade, which is I'd say is considered a high level technique.

What DB translates it as, is Circular Water Wall, which from memory, was a lower level water defense Kakashi used against Itachi when the Itachi/Kisame duo first visited Konoha.

I think that's the difference Abdula was referring to.

[FireEmblem]

Suiton Suijinheki is the water wall technique used here, in the fight vs. Itachi, and by the second Hokage.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/09/ <--Kakashi vs. Itachi
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/120/02/ <--2nd Hokage

The 2nd also used that technique without water nearby. It is safe to assume that it is a pretty high level water jutsu based on those ANBU and Oro's reaction.

[DDBen]

Why do I even bother seriously, why. Well I won't anymore.

DDBen, wow. Really, just wow.

Honestly I don't have a clue what your talking about here.

I don't pretend I can speak Japanese but I also don't hold DB's translations as gospel.

http://www.narutobase.net/Naruto-Jutsus/view/Hatake-Kakashi/Suiton-Suijinheki/55.html

That is just a random website I found with a quick google looking for a exact translation being I can't translate it on my own.

Name: Suiton: Suijinheki, 水遁・水陣壁, literally "Water Release: Water Encampment Wall"

That random manga chapter translated it as "Water Barricade" and DB translated it as "Circular Water Wall". I don't think any of those are purely wrong and they are all essentially exactly the same thing.

If your not talking about that and are instead refering to Kakashi's constant use of Earth Jutsu. Let see we have the first time team 7 tries to get the Bells where he sucks Sasuke into the ground upto his head for Sakura to find him. We have the second time they goto get the bells in Shippuden where Sakura shatters the ground Kakashi is hiding in. We have this episode where he sucks the Lightning mask into the ground. We have countless examples of him using techniques.

Heck I think its pretty well established Kakashi can "Copy" Techniques from any of the elements in general otherwise he wouldn't have the reputation of being the copy ninja in the first place. We don't know that he's Earth got an Earth affinity however. Any ability that directly has to do with Earth is a "Earth Jutsu" your claim that he only used one ONCE was blatantly wrong he's used Jutsu's all the time. Using a Jutsu of any kind is using nature manipulation of that particular kind. Having a Natural affinity for a certain kind of Manipulation is a different thing all together and you don't need an affinity to do basic jutsu's it just makes it easier on you. Not yelling out the attack name doesn't mean it isn't based on a certain type of nature chakra especially considering the whole concept likely wasn't fleshed out when Naruto first started.

http://www.narutobase.net/Naruto-Jutsus/view/Hatake-Kakashi/Doton-Shinju-Zanshu-no-Jutsu/55.html

I do however agree with Buffalobiian the way it was animated Suiton: Suijinheki looked to be a high level water technique. Add in Kakashi V.S. Zabuza when Kakashi copied Suiton-Daibakufu-no-Jutsu and I think its safe to say Kakashi has some level of water affinity.

http://www.narutobase.net/Naruto-Jutsus/view/Hatake-Kakashi/Suiton-Daibakufu-no-Jutsu/55.html

please note the links are from a random webpage I'll assume the information on it is correct if you can prove otherwise go ahead.

[Uzumaki]

Maybe ya'll are looking into this too much, the whole nature manipulation thing has mostly been picked up on in the latest episodes and obviously there's going to be something in the past that doesn't fit perfectly. If you want to look for inconsitancies, I'm sure you'll find plenty. Why isn't Naruto the strongest fighter ever, with the amount of Kage Bunshins he's has used? Because they only hilight the learning thing recently. Also why does Atsuma know the way into the Shika Forrest to make an appearance as a ghost if only the Shika clan have been there? Yes it's dumb but the whole point is probably not to take things too seriously.

[Assertn]

Lets see....

Water jutsus Kakashi performed:
Mizu Bunshin
Water Barrier
Water Shark Missile
Water Explosion Thing
Giant Fuckin Water Dragon

Earth jutsus Kakashi performed:
Underground Arm-grab
Dog summon w/ scroll

I dunno you guys.....i dunno....

[DarthEnderX]

We're not arguing that Water is probably his primary element Assertn(although I would argue that its lightning since that's the element of the only move he's ever created).

We're just saying that "Yes, it is possible to be able to use more than two elements." Which Abdula insists is not possible without scrolls or a technique that uses someone elses chakra.

But Kakashi has clearly used 3 different elements without scrolls. These are not fillers. These are all from the manga, and they're all clearly identified by the call outs before them telling you what element they are(suiton, doton, etc.)

[tystic]

Any chance it could have something to do with his little Uchiha transplant, that maybe the eye carried some baggage with it?

[ASSpirine]

I said something about that a few topics ago, but someone shunned that away.
It seems it is hard to understand that someone can do multiple elements while not having its affinity

[KrayZ33]

Why on earth does everyone think there's anything special about the deer? It's just a forest that belongs to his family that has (Shika) deer in them... Why can't they be the caretakers of a forest outside of Konoha?

Have the deer actually done anything at all? No.


because deers are shy and run away if they hear noises.. oh and all the deers were males which is actually weird too since they don't allow rivals in love near them.

and they appeared right before Hidan was being executed which makes me think that they are going to eat his corpse.

and do you really believe it was coincidence that the camera focussed on a deer's eye (which is the mirror of it's soul btw) when he said "my clan will trap you here forever?"

if it's just meant to mean that people from his clan are comming by now and then and look after hidans tomb, then I don't know why they even showed us the deers

I don't know what you guys think about that, but I'd find it alot better if these "ancient spirit" stories are left out.. the summoned creatures in naruto are enough already.

[antiravage]

Kakashi can use all five elements though he has only showed 3 jutsus from different elements so far If we don’t count the filler katon he used against Sakura and Naruto, but what he can’t do is use powerful S-rank jutsus that aren’t lighting element because they are not his affinity so he would have to spend an eternity to learn an S-rank non raiton justu while an S-rank lighting one would be easier to master.

All this is proved by the manga, the only S-rank elemental jutsu Kakashi has ever used is raikiri, a raiton, having the sharingan allows him to copy other jutsus and use different elements easily but there is a limit depending how powerful, draining and demanding the jutsu is, certain jutsus are out of his reach, Kakuzu on the other hand has no limit, he can learn any elemental jutsu with the same ease even S-rank ones.

And for those who don’t know the trailer at the end of the episode is the preview for the next arc, it’s the first time they do such thing, maybe it’s because of the ratings in japan, the ratings haven’t been that good lately so they might want to use the preview to see if they get more audience later considering Sasuke is in the next arc, oh, and by the way, the next arc will mix canon with filler, the three tails and Deidara, Sasuke and Orochimaru part was in the manga.

[Assertn]

Guys....it's symbolism, ok?

Deer is symbolic of the Nara clan. Their clan has been associated with deer for most of the series. Their clan supplies Tsunade with the antlers she uses to create medicines, and you see designs with deer on the doors of Shikamaru's house. Plus I think "Shika" means deer or some shit.

[animus]

Anyone else thought it was kinda odd Naruto used Tajuu Kage Bunshin, which is for massive amounts of clones, to summon only 2 and 3?

[ASSpirine]

Guys....it's symbolism, ok?

Deer is symbolic of the Nara clan. Their clan has been associated with deer for most of the series. Their clan supplies Tsunade with the antlers she uses to create medicines, and you see designs with deer on the doors of Shikamaru's house. Plus I think "Shika" means deer or some shit.

Yup, I think Shikamaru himself said Shika when mentioning the deers.


Anyone else thought it was kinda odd Naruto used Tajuu Kage Bunshin, which is for massive amounts of clones, to summon only 2 and 3?

Noticed it too, ridiculous he used Tajuu... like 2 or 3 clones is a mass...

[Rikudo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdula
DDBen, wow. Really, just wow.


What? You have a problem with how you said something that was completely untrue about the manga and he showed us that you were wrong/lying?

By all means, take a break. I'll be sure to link this thread when you show up again and try and pretend it didn't happen.

That's Abdula aka TTB for you. He loves to proved people wrong but he's too much of a pussy when its the other way around.

Kakashi explained before that most jounin are able to use two element quite easily and in some case more. Being Kakashi is a higher level jounin, he showed that he can easily use three of them, lightning, water, earth type and a little bit of wind when he formed a rasengan.

[Assertn]

You don't need wind to create a rasengan. The rasengan itself is just chakra form, not nature composition. This was explained during Naruto's training.

[Crash]

nvm assrtn beat me to it

[Buffalobiian]

I wonder what the difference is between Futon: Rasengan, and Futon: Rasengan Shuriken. It looked different, but that's all the eye can differentiate.

[KrayZ33]

Rasengan Shuriken is probably a nuke or bazooka, while the other rasengan is meant for close range. Btw, I wouldn't be too shocked if he just throws it at Kakuzu in the next episode and misses .... naturally shortly after they showed what happened in this episode before again for the first 2 minutes (followed by the opening) and stared at each other for like 1 or 2 minutes

.

[DB_Hunter]

The deer thing is def symbolism in my opinion.

As for Kakashi's elemental affinity, he def has an affinity for lightning and water. I think this (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/260/08/) suggests his underground move isn't a simple dig move and could possibly have earth affinity also. I'm pretty sure he has used Katon jutsu somewhere, but I can't find it in the manga. In the anime they added him using the Grand Fireball right at the start of Shippudden against Sakura and Naruto.

[Buffalobiian]

naturally shortly after they showed what happened in this episode before again for the first 2 minutes (followed by the opening) and stared at each other for like 1 or 2 minutesWe can only hope that doesn't happen.

On a different note, the more I look at it, the more I think Kakuzu's lizard look suits him.
The reptilian image encompasses cold-blooded brutality, power, intelligence, longevity...

While modern reptiles surely don't have three hearts, they do have a three-chambered heart.

[Shadow Skill]

It's obvious this episode special was about Shikamaru when it should not have been.

Seriously, did they have to bring in a 5 minute Ghost of Asuma? Not to mention Sakura's flash back of Shikamaru? I see that as a waste of good Naruto time. The long drawn out talks... Was all about killing, then switched to talking near the end of the fight...

Also, I agree, Naruto's eyes ruled. At first I thought the Kyuubi was coming out. Hopefully some are right, Naruto has learned to tap in to the Kyuubi power without losing himself in the process.

[antiravage]

As for Kakashi's elemental affinity, he def has an affinity for lightning and water.[
Guys, come on, this is depressing, I just said in my first post here, a ninja can only have one affinity, obviously a ninja can have more ease with a particular element than another but that doesn’t mean he has dual or triple affinity it just means he is better at one element than the other. Kakashi is the example, he shows lots of water jutsus, maybe he is good at them but his affinity is lighting and lighting alone, end of story, or else he could have created an S-rank water jutsu, which he has none.

The only S-rank elemental jutsu type Kakashi can have is raiton. And Kakashi sure doesn’t have water affinity, how is the special paper that tells one’s affinity able to show two different reactions at the same time? It doesn’t work like that; the paper will react according to the element the chakra owner is better with.

What you guys are doing is like, hey guys, Naruto has six twin brothers once in a while when he fights. And what I’m trying to tell you is, no, that’s just clones, that’s part of a jutsu called kage bushin.
Kakashi&#180;s affinity=Lighting.
Now shut up with the water affinity.

[Jessper]

Also why does Atsuma know the way into the Shika Forrest to make an appearance as a ghost if only the Shika clan have been there? Yes it's dumb but the whole point is probably not to take things too seriously.

Lets forget that this is an anime just for a moment. You find it hard to believe that a ghost would know where something is? Also don't forget you are assuming it is a ghost...

As for the pace of the episode, honestly I figured it was done and over (was about to close it even) when the fade to black happened in the middle. I knew it was a double episode but honestly after the recent double eps I expected all of the content in the first half to be both episodes.

Overall I enjoyed it.


and they appeared right before Hidan was being executed which makes me think that they are going to eat his corpse.

That is what I figured too, kind of messed up but it would probably be fairly effective...



and do you really believe it was coincidence that the camera focussed on a deer's eye (which is the mirror of it's soul btw) when he said "my clan will trap you here forever?"

Obviously the Deer are there for a reason, it wasn't just to be creepy. I wouldn't assume these deer are what we think of when we say deer though, sure they are similar but I doubt half a dozen "earth" deer are the prison Shikamaru setup for Hidan and regular deer sure don't show up on demand.

[Uzumaki]

Yes I assume it's a ghost because in general when someone dies and then appears to a loved one in a *gasp* ghostly manner it appears ghostlike. Also said it's dumb and people need to not take this so seriously.

[Azonalanthious]

I never liked the 'ghost' but I have to say that I never actually thought it WAS a ghost - I thought it was basicly all in Shikamaru's head, basicly showing that symbolicly Asuma was with him. I though it was a poor way of doing it, but thats all I thought it was, not an actual spirit.

[Jessper]

I never liked the 'ghost' but I have to say that I never actually thought it WAS a ghost - I thought it was basicly all in Shikamaru's head, basicly showing that symbolicly Asuma was with him. I though it was a poor way of doing it, but thats all I thought it was, not an actual spirit.

Exactly, not to mention even if it was a ghost how do you know what knowledge they have access to? To be technical information is stored in the brain and accessed through electrical impulse, someone that is dead no long has these pulses thus no information. Ghosts should all be really dumb!

[Uzumaki]

In the manga doesn't Shikamaru hand Atsuma the cigarette? Or the 'ghost' was made from the cigarette smoke or something physical

[DarthEnderX]

I assumed the ghost was shikamaru's imagination as well.

And now that its been explained and I've watched it again, yes, I agree now the deer shit is all symbolic, but I hope people can understand why some people would be confused.

[Assertn]

Obviously the Deer are there for a reason, it wasn't just to be creepy. I wouldn't assume these deer are what we think of when we say deer though, sure they are similar but I doubt half a dozen "earth" deer are the prison Shikamaru setup for Hidan and regular deer sure don't show up on demand.
fine...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/338/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/338/13/

Here's the two pages that the scene comes from.
Clearly, the intent was not for the deer to play a vital role in Hidan's demise.

[DarthEnderX]

Haha, the cigarette flick there is pretty badass.

[Jeff_from_MD]

OK I want to biatch about how the fillers stole the thunder of this episode, by coming up with that gay "hair monster" who could use all 4 elemental attacks and use its hair as a way to ensnare people. That stupid filler ripped of of this arc completely, and made Kakuzu like "ensnaring hair monster #2." >.<



Anyway, the deer only seemed deceptively important because english viewers never associated shikamaru with the word "deer" (shika) for the past 5 years naruto's been airing. But japanese viewers knew exactly shikamaru's affiliation with the forest and left it as that, and weren't transfixed by the deer being "some new spirit entering the scene."

[ASSpirine]

I think we all knew that Shikamaru had something with deers, from the beginning on it has been said that the Nara clan has a special bond with the deers because of their antlers.

[Jessper]

fine...

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/338/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/338/13/

Here's the two pages that the scene comes from.
Clearly, the intent was not for the deer to play a vital role in Hidan's demise.

I agree with your idea of the symbolism (though I was really wondering if they were going to eat him, seems fitting!) I was just playing devil's advocate with the other ideas.


OK I want to biatch about how the fillers stole the thunder of this episode, by coming up with that gay "hair monster" who could use all 4 elemental attacks and use its hair as a way to ensnare people. That stupid filler ripped of of this arc completely, and made Kakuzu like "ensnaring hair monster #2." >.<

They really need to hire some writers if they plan on doing filler episodes, not have the interns do it for them. It is pretty pathetic. They could have let her use all 4 elements even but the parallel between when she was just hair to Kakuzu at the end there is a bit much.

[ASSpirine]

ok, I just watched part of the episode back, and I've only noticed Naruto's eyes just now after some of the guys said something about it. Hopefully its true, that he managed to control the Kyuubi a bit more. Before this arc it was always Naruto going Kyuubi beserk... Got really sick of it

Ow yeah, and how much did Chouji and Ino suck during these last episodes. Chouji at least tried something, but Ino did nothing...

[Kraco]

Chouji at least tried something, but Ino did nothing...

For Ino's defense it has to be said she probably would have tried if the others hadn't kept telling her it's too dangerous. I guess she was too good a girl and listened them.

[Rikudo]

Ow yeah, and how much did Chouji and Ino suck during these last episodes. Chouji at least tried something, but Ino did nothing...

I believe Ino is the designated medical ninja in the four man platoon so she doesn't really have to do anything unless necessary. She did offer to heal Kakashi when Kakuzu's tentacle penetrated his chest.

[poopdeville]

I liked the sleep walking Naruto intermission.

[ASSpirine]

I believe Ino is the designated medical ninja in the four man platoon so she doesn't really have to do anything unless necessary. She did offer to heal Kakashi when Kakuzu's tentacle penetrated his chest.

Still.. Medical ninjas are supposed to very good at chakra control. That still means they can do jutsu's that require that kind of qualties.

Only being useful when someone is injures isn't that good... Sakura at least knew other things

[DarthEnderX]

Only being useful when someone is injures isn't that good.Tell her that again when you have a lethal wound.

Sakura is one of the main characters, that's why she's a medical ninja and a badass besides. Most medical ninjas have to do everything they can just to be good at medical jutsu.

[Azonalanthious]

Also, let's not forget (easy to do watching the show) that ninja missions aren't all about combat. In fact, the majority are likely non-combat oriented. Intel, recon, escorts, secure transport, heck that one dog with the ribbon on its ear. A lot of the ninjas that seem weak in combat probably have skills focused more on other areas - like Ino's possession jutsu. Weak in combat, but loads of uses for other types of missions. Like, oh, possessing a bird to find the targets, without which Skikamaru and crew might well still be wandering around searching for them.

[ASSpirine]

Tell her that again when you have a lethal wound.

Sakura is one of the main characters, that's why she's a medical ninja and a badass besides. Most medical ninjas have to do everything they can just to be good at medical jutsu.

I'm just saying that when you have such a good chakra control it is possible to do some good jutsu's. How is it any good that she has to be protected all the time because she is a medical nin. This distracts the stronger one (Kakashi) in his fight against the opponent.

[RyougaZell]

Also, let's not forget (easy to do watching the show) that ninja missions aren't all about combat. In fact, the majority are likely non-combat oriented. Intel, recon, escorts, secure transport, heck that one dog with the ribbon on its ear. A lot of the ninjas that seem weak in combat probably have skills focused more on other areas - like Ino's possession jutsu. Weak in combat, but loads of uses for other types of missions. Like, oh, possessing a bird to find the targets, without which Skikamaru and crew might well still be wandering around searching for them.

Best explanation I've seen in a while. Most people (watching Asspirine) believe you are just a good ninja if you break more things.

[Yukimura]

I'm just saying that when you have such a good chakra control it is possible to do some good jutsu's. How is it any good that she has to be protected all the time because she is a medical nin. This distracts the stronger one (Kakashi) in his fight against the opponent.

Think about it on a risk reward basis. There's no such thing as a guaranteed victory so no matter how good Ino's hypothetical jutsu might be there's always a chance it'll just get thrown back in her face by an opponent and she'll end up captured or dead. Given that she's the only person on the team that can heal the others, while all of them are capable of fighting her staying alive and free to support everyone probably has a higher value to the overall team than her potential offensive abilities. Any ninja can fight, but healing requires a lot of specialized training and effort.

[Kagari]

Loving the fact that a few of you are understanding Ino's role, and defending it! I thought I was gonna have to do it myself. She helped out in her own way.


Seriously, did they have to bring in a 5 minute Ghost of Asuma? Not to mention Sakura's flash back of Shikamaru? I see that as a waste of good Naruto time. The long drawn out talks...

I kinda liked that, especially sakura's flashback. Thought it was a neat moment between Asuma and Shika, and it was VERY cool to hear about Shikamaru's offer. Oh, and his eyes right before slashing hidan's throat? epic.

Overall, I enjoyed the episode from start to finish. It wasn't as action packed as 85, but as others have mentioned action isn't everything, only part of the equation.


Where did that Abdula guy go? ...after he got pwned he disappeared. I'm not familiar with his notorious "work" around these forums, but seems to me you should stick up and admit defeat!

[Archangel]

Lol the kakshi elemental affinity subject came up again, i'm sad i missed it.

Anyways good animation work and good episode.

Wtf is up with the ending, is that an OVA? If it's another filler arc or something like that i'm gonna hang the anime directors, cut off all their limbs and then feed them to all the pissod off fans that have abandoned naruto since the fillers started.

[Azonalanthious]

I just watched the episode again and noticed something that I didn't really notice last time (well, I noticed it, just didn't think about it). The pit Shikamaru makes has a circle of pipes opening around its edge. The first time through, I just assumed that they were there from however he rigged the pit to collapse, but I started to wonder as I watched it this time. What if they are there to dispense acid or something similar? That would seem to be an effective way of insuring that no one ever comes and tries to put the assorted post explosion bits and pieces back together again.

[Archangel]

Shikamaru is known to think ahead but i don't think he's actually making a back up plan is case his whole clan gets annihilated :p

Then again who knows, he's a genius after all

[Abdula]

Where did that Abdula guy go? ...after he got pwned he disappeared. I'm not familiar with his notorious "work" around these forums, but seems to me you should stick up and admit defeat!
Lol. You guys really need to grow up. I merely said that I don't believe Kakashi can use earth element, something I've said and stuck to since this whole elemental affinity thing came up then I pointed out that there was a difference between the technique Kakashi used in the manga and the one he used in the anime.

Where is this supposed pwning?

Darth posted this (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?p=409479&postcount=29). Nothing I didn't already know and I thought it was just an attempt on his part to goad me into some long winded response.

And DDBen this (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?p=409475&postcount=26)
Which I thought was really weird since he mentions Kakashi constantly using earth techniques to go into the ground on many occasions when as far as I remember he has used the same technique a total of four times and I had already stated numerous times why I don't consider that technique.

And in regard to the water technique, there certainly was a difference. It may not have been a major difference and he may not have noticed it but that doesn't change the fact that there is a difference.

I just decided to take a break from posting here because I've been down this road with these guys far too many times. After the last time and the debacle that resulted from me simply saying "Ninjas can sense each other" I decided to avoid posting for awhile until you guys moved on because I'm really not interested in bogging down yet another Naruto thread with you guys going after Abdula. I'm done with that.

All the neg reps were greatly appreciated though.:rolleyes:

[Archangel]

Seriously Abdula if you really want to show you don't give a fuck just don't give a fuck.

Writing a page long post just cause some guy posted some idiocy will only prolong a discussion that doesn't have any merit to be discussed anymore anyway.

Q. Does Kakashi have 2 or 3 elemental affinities?

A. Dunno, don't care either. The only time we'll know is when Kishi decides to tell us and i'm fine with that.

[Xyrox]

Great episode. Even though it could have been better, I enjoyed it.

Hidan better be dead now. Shikamaru killing an Akatsuki almost by himself - how awesome isn't that? I hope the backup is there only to get impressed.
(Haven't watched the preview).

By the way, it seems Naruto can throw his Fuuton Rasengan. And didn't he do it with one hand when doing that Gufuu Suika no Jutsu combo attack? Maybe it's just anime laziness.

[Archangel]

Shikamaru killing an immortal Akatsuki by himself - how awesome is that?

Corrected to truly show his awesomeness

Shikamaru: He kicks so much ass he can even create a fucking paradox

[Azonalanthious]

Shout aside, I suspect it wasn't a fully formed rasengen in that case. The effect was similar to when he used one aspect of his rasengen training to create a whirlpool back in the race arc and I suspect that was basicly what was happening here as well. Rather then containing the spin in order to accelerate it and concentrate it, he simply generated the spin then released it into the water to form the vortex. Since, according to the inital training, his containment had to have every bit as much force as what he was putting into the spin, he is essentially leaving out a full half of the technique, rendering it much easier and so reasonably usable with only a single hand.

[lilphatboi88]

I figure there wasn't really much flashback because without it in this ep, we wouldn't know how Shikamaru avoided the attack.

I liked the music when Naruto and gang made their entrance, pretty sweet.

[Crash]

Shout aside, I suspect it wasn't a fully formed rasengen in that case. The effect was similar to when he used one aspect of his rasengen training to create a whirlpool back in the race arc and I suspect that was basicly what was happening here as well. Rather then containing the spin in order to accelerate it and concentrate it, he simply generated the spin then released it into the water to form the vortex. Since, according to the inital training, his containment had to have every bit as much force as what he was putting into the spin, he is essentially leaving out a full half of the technique, rendering it much easier and so reasonably usable with only a single hand.

Looking back at the episode it seems like what he used in conjunction with the water technique was in fact a wind element rasengan. Not only does he shout Futon: Rasengan (Wind Element, Spiraling Sphere) but the animation of it looks the same as the one they showed him using against Kakashi in the flashback. So it appears it was a legitimate fusion of wind/water jutsu and not just naruto spinning the water around with a half made Rasengan. Makes more sense that way anyway. If Kakashi's water barrier couldn't stop a wind/fire element combo i don't see why naruto simply spinning a water jutsu around would.

If he can throw it or not is debatable. The animation, though vague, seemed to hint at it. A regular rasengan can't be thrown, but it would make sense if a wind element one could.

[Buffalobiian]

Shout aside, I suspect it wasn't a fully formed rasengen in that case. The effect was similar to when he used one aspect of his rasengen training to create a whirlpool back in the race arc and I suspect that was basicly what was happening here as well. Rather then containing the spin in order to accelerate it and concentrate it, he simply generated the spin then released it into the water to form the vortex. Since, according to the inital training, his containment had to have every bit as much force as what he was putting into the spin, he is essentially leaving out a full half of the technique, rendering it much easier and so reasonably usable with only a single hand.

Only thing wrong with that theory is that back in the race arc, he concentrated on one thing: Chakra spin.

Futon: rasengan implies wind elemental manipulation, which he can't do simultaneously, hence his necessary two clones when forming the Rasen Shuriken.

[ASSpirine]

Great episode. Even though it could have been better, I enjoyed it.

Hidan better be dead now. Shikamaru killing an Akatsuki almost by himself - how awesome isn't that? I hope the backup is there only to get impressed.
(Haven't watched the preview).

By the way, it seems Naruto can throw his Fuuton Rasengan. And didn't he do it with one hand when doing that Gufuu Suika no Jutsu combo attack? Maybe it's just anime laziness.

I was thinking that too, Hidan better be dead after all the awesome stuff Shikamaru did. But why would there be back-up... That's what I'm afraid of...

[Buffalobiian]

But why would there be back-up... That's what I'm afraid of...Paku, Sakura and Sai just went to back him up.

[ASSpirine]

Paku, Sakura and Sai just went to back him up.

I know, there must be a reason why Kishi sends backup... Probably because Shikamaru didn't finish his work

[Archangel]

I know, there must be a reason why Kishi sends backup... Probably because Shikamaru didn't finish his work

Maybe he sent back up because it would be too retarded not to?

[ASSpirine]

Maybe he sent back up because it would be too retarded not to?

You would think that, but it usually isn't :p

[Psyke]

So, only adults are permitted to smoke on Japanese television? :p Seems kinda strange for Shikamaru to give Asuma a cigarette.

[Yukimura]

Sending back up is indeed the prudent thing to do, but it would also make for a cool scene if when the backup arrives Shikamaru is just chilling in the forest having beaten the guy who killed his mentor almost single-handedly.

[RyougaZell]

So, only adults are permitted to smoke on Japanese television? :p Seems kinda strange for Shikamaru to give Asuma a cigarette.

This censorship made Shikamaru throw away the lighter that Asuma owned. I was expecting him to keep it since they don't want to show him smoking...he is 15 after all...

I was going to mention Sanji from One Piece, but he is 19...

[Psyke]

This censorship made Shikamaru throw away the lighter that Asuma owned. I was expecting him to keep it since they don't want to show him smoking...he is 15 after all...

They're right in doing so. I can picture young people who adore Shikamaru after this current arc picking up smoking just because it makes them look intelligent. Behold the power of the media!

[Archangel]

They're right in doing so. I can picture young people who adore Shikamaru after this current arc picking up smoking just because it makes them look intelligent. Behold the power of the media!

Lol now that psyke's a parent he's all for lollipops replacing cigars :p

[Uberbaka]

So, only adults are permitted to smoke on Japanese television? :p Seems kinda strange for Shikamaru to give Asuma a cigarette.

Not like cancer is gonna do much to hurt Asuma now =P

-edit-

And this was what I didn't like by the fact that Shikamaru didn't smoke. He had to throw the lighter.

HE THREW THE BLOODY LIGHTER... The last keepsake from his sensei which he got at his deathbed, boom. Ah well.

[ASSpirine]

You can see it as his way of saying goodbye, the last thing he learned from Asuma was the information how to handle Hidan. And with his help (the lighter) he'll defeat him?

Far fetched or not? :p

[Buffalobiian]

I saw it as him finally able to "let things go".

[lilphatboi88]

Asuma passed on the will of fire to Shikamaru, so he didn't need the lighter anymore.


I wonder if Shikamaru has a backup plan for the offchance that Hidan escaped that trap?

[DarthEnderX]

They're right in doing so. I can picture young people who adore Shikamaru after this current arc picking up smoking just because it makes them look intelligent. Behold the power of the media!Yeah, its too bad young people don't have parents to teach them the consequences of the things they might pick up on television.

Oh wait...

[Buffalobiian]

I'll admit I used to suck on a lollipop stick all day, thinking it was a cigarette after watching those wartime movies from the last decade or so. -All the time hearing "smoking is bad!" from my grandma :p

[Uberbaka]

Mm, it's a nice way to look at it.. Just tricky when you've seen the alternative version first. But by all means =]

[Assertn]

the nice thing about the lighter is that its sorta like asuma is delivering the finishing blow on hidan

[RyougaZell]

They're right in doing so. I can picture young people who adore Shikamaru after this current arc picking up smoking just because it makes them look intelligent. Behold the power of the media!

That is true. People (Narutards/Kids) are dumb and do what they see on TV. But in fact they only censor because the character is underaged.

I mean... Sanji isn't censored and he is a chain smoker. But the scene of he smoking as a kid mas completely removed, for he was a minor on the scene.

I wonder how come manga gets to show this things though.

[Patriot]

Yup, I think Shikamaru himself said Shika when mentioning the deers.



Noticed it too, ridiculous he used Tajuu... like 2 or 3 clones is a mass...

Not sure if I am right or wrong, but thought I would throw this in. Mass Shadow clones is basically a technique that even with someone with a great eye ability like Sasuke or Neiji would not be able to tell the difference if its the real Naruto or not. Plus, regular clones do not gather experience like the Tajuu ones. So if he had used them, he would not have gained the expereince from their deaths.

[DarthEnderX]

Pretty sure that's not the case. Back during Naruto vs. Sasuke 2, Sasuke said his Sharingan let him pick out the real Naruto easily.

Naruto basically knows three techniques, Clone jutsu is the one that just makes illusions. He hasn't used that since like the first episode.

Shadow Clone jutsu is the one that makes solid clones.

Mass Shadow Clone jutsu is just when he used to make like 100 shadow clones at once. But they keep fucking that up for some reason.

[Kraco]

Maybe they are simply taking it to the direction that making more than one shadow clone at once is already tajuu. I think usually people make only one.

[KrayZ33]

Pretty sure that's not the case. Back during Naruto vs. Sasuke 2, Sasuke said his Sharingan let him pick out the real Naruto easily.

that would be weird, did he really say that?
I wonder how that is possible

[Assertn]

Pretty sure that's not the case. Back during Naruto vs. Sasuke 2, Sasuke said his Sharingan let him pick out the real Naruto easily.
That's news to me

[Archangel]

Actually i think i remember him saying something like that one time. Maybe i'm wrong it's just a feeling i have.

Something about how the original moves differently from the clones or something?

[Buffalobiian]

Something about how the original moves differently from the clones or something?

If that was the reason, it'd make sense. Without complete clone control, you can imagine the original will have to observe his clones and act accordingly.

[DarthEnderX]

I just rewatched it again on DVD like a week ago so I remember it pretty clearly.

However, I just looked through the manga and didn't see it there so I guess the line was filler.

[Kraco]

I have no recollection of such a line at all, it has been too long, but since it's Sasuke we are talking about, that is, one with a brain unlike Naruto, he could have simply said it in order to gain an upper hand. After all, Naruto always felt inferior to Sasuke to begin with, so if Sasuke coolly stated he can easily tell the clones apart (even if he in reality can't), it would be one more blow to Naruto's spirit.

[Uberbaka]

Oh, and speaking of censorship, when Kakashi nailed Kakuzu with the raikiri in the manga you saw his hand come out the front of him and not just the lightning effect. It's the little things that make me happy ;]

[chambers]

this thread delivers, its nice to finally read some discussion about naruto again rather than the mindless "this was a good episode" bullshit that we normally get treated to.

Its my thoughts that elements are not so restrictive, as some people seem to think. I would say that any person can learn any technique from any type of element. But one of the limiting factors learning any technique would be skill. Just like one guy in real life can grasp how to be an excellent doctor and another guy a physicist. People have different affinitys, sure the doctor could be excellent at mathmatics but he would have to work obscenely hard in order to achive the same as the lawyer. Just like in naruto anyone can learn a fire technique but if they are of the opposite affinity its going to be drastically more difficult, and in the end more then likley less effective.

[Abdula]

I'm with DarthEnder here. Sasuke definitely said that the sharingan can tell the difference between Naruto and his clones. It had nothing to do with the clones moving differently and he certainly wasn't just trying to break Naruto's spirit. I can't remember the order but it was either right before or right after he said that, he proceeded to defeat a bunch of Naruto's clones while completely avoiding the real Naruto, just to prove his point.

But like Darth said it wasn't canon but I'm inclined to believe its possible. Why wouldn't the sharingan be able to tell the difference between Naruto and his clones?

[The Heretic Azazel]

I'm pretty sure Sasuke said that in the filler Tea Country Race arc, when everyone was on the ship.

[KrayZ33]

But like Darth said it wasn't canon but I'm inclined to believe its possible. Why wouldn't the sharingan be able to tell the difference between Naruto and his clones?

I think the right question would be "why should it be possible for him to tell the difference?"

from what I know, the clones are physically alike, chakra wise too and even able to think on their own

[darkmetal505]

I know Sasuke can tell the difference between Bunshins, not sure about Kage Bunshins though.

[Abdula]

I'm pretty sure Sasuke said that in the filler Tea Country Race arc, when everyone was on the ship.
It was at the beginning of the battle in The Valley of End. Anyway it really doesn't matter where it was, I know it isn't canon.

I think the right question would be "why should it be possible for him to tell the difference?"

from what I know, the clones are physically alike, chakra wise too and even able to think on their own
Because its the sharingan.:D

[Azonalanthious]

I think the right question would be "why should it be possible for him to tell the difference?"

from what I know, the clones are physically alike, chakra wise too and even able to think on their own

I would think it would be due to the ability to analyze techniques rather then any differences in the clones - he can see how the technique is working as its activated so can identify each clone as its created. From there its just a matter of making sure he keep track of them. At least, that would make sense to me.

[Buffalobiian]

Since that isn't canon, it is my belief that the Sharingan can't tell Shadow Clones apart. Otherwise, Kakashi's shadow clones wouldn't have tricked Itachi.

Twice.

However, Azonalanthious's idea is feesable, since in neither case did Itachi see the technique

[ASSpirine]

Neji also can't tell with his Byakugan. And he can see the inner chakra coils...

[Buffalobiian]

Neji also can't tell with his Byakugan. And he can see the inner chakra coils...

Well, since the Byakugan only sees chakra coils, you wouldn't expect it to tell physically identical bodies apart. On the other hand, the fact that the Sharingan "picks up every detail it sees" allows the possibility to pick up imperfect movement imitation, something a perfectly imitated body might not be able to do.

In Itachi's defense, I should add that in both of Kakashi's fights, Kakashi was always hidden when his clone jumps out. As such, "comparing" isn't an option, though supposedly, Sharingan users are supposed to remember everything that's happened.

In Naruto's case, you'd be actively searching for the original, while spending too much time thinking if this Kakashi is real will most likely cost you dearly.

[Patriot]

Also, if every time someone created a shadow clone, like for example Kakazu created a water clone, then how would Kakashi not know with his Sharingan that he was fighting the wrong one. So I'm going to have to say, that even with normal shadow clones its not possible for the sharingan or the bakagun to tell them apart.