Kakashi's problem with Naruto?

[jasminegreen]

Hi i'm new here, and I wanted to get some opinions on this. In part 1 of Naruto, we know Kakashi's favorite student was Sasuke, but what was his problem with Naruto? He was supportive and understanding with Sasuke, and heck, he was even polite and comforting with Sakura. But Naruto was the one he seemed to treat with coldness. He just seemed like he didn't care about Naruto at all. Naruto could probably die, and he wouldn't care.

Spoilers removed. Read the rules.

-Assassin

[Buffalobiian]

Okay, first of all, are these "facts" in your post something you're assumed or gathered from the anime, or from the manga. If the latter, please keep all manga discussions in the manga sub-forum in the future.

Otherwise, how come you think Kakashi favoured Sasuke? If you're talking about his teaching him Chidori, it's because it's a skill that's only usable with the Sharingan, and that he was the only other person in Konoha who could teach him how to use his eye. Secondly, he was able to palm Naruto off to the Hermit then, which IMO would have better techniques for Naruto than Kakashi. Remember that Kakashi was a genius, like Sasuke, and while having a low chakra capacity, is able to use his brain to get around that barrier.
Naruto is blatantly the opposite, and if not for his ridiculously huge chakra capacity, he'd be dead a long time ago. Jiraiya wasn't as sharp as the genius of his era (Oro), and as the Third said himself, his only real strength was probably his cloaking techniques. In that regard, it would only make sense that he takes Naruto under his wing, while Kakashi spends more and more time with Sasuke.
As their sensei, Kakashi also noticed the darkness within Sasuke's heart, on that isn't present in Naruto. He said in the beginning of the Sasuke Retrieval Arc that he taught Sasuke his Chidori to protect, and not for revenge. I think he also said that he was similar when he was young, and that revenge gets you nowhere.
Basically, I think Sasuke needed a lot more counseling from Kakashi, which might make him look like he's favouring him over Naruto.

[jasminegreen]

Okay, first of all, are these "facts" in your post something you're assumed or gathered from the anime (son relationship, Obito), or from the manga. If the latter, please keep all manga discussions in the manga sub-forum in the future.

Otherwise, how come you think Kakashi favoured Sasuke? If you're talking about his teaching him Chidori, it's because it's a skill that's only usable with the Sharingan, and that he was the only other person in Konoha who could teach him how to use his eye. Secondly, he was able to palm Naruto off to the Hermit then, which IMO would have better techniques for Naruto than Kakashi. Remember that Kakashi was a genius, like Sasuke, and while having a low chakra capacity, is able to use his brain to get around that barrier.
Naruto is blatantly the opposite, and if not for his ridiculously huge chakra capacity, he'd be dead a long time ago. Jiraiya wasn't as sharp as the genius of his era (Oro), and as the Third said himself, his only real strength was probably his cloaking techniques. In that regard, it would only make sense that he takes Naruto under his wing, while Kakashi spends more and more time with Sasuke.
As their sensei, Kakashi also noticed the darkness within Sasuke's heart, on that isn't present in Naruto. He said in the beginning of the Sasuke Retrieval Arc that he taught Sasuke his Chidori to protect, and not for revenge. I think he also said that he was similar when he was young, and that revenge gets you nowhere.
Basically, I think Sasuke needed a lot more counseling from Kakashi, which might make him look like he's favouring him over Naruto.
Well Kakashi scolds Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan, even though it's something that could help protect him against the Akatsuki. He taught Sasuke the Chidori to protect him, from Orochimaru, I think, but Kakashi says Naruto shouldn't have been taught his technique. So, he cares if Sasuke is taken by Orochimaru but he doesn't care if Naruto is taken and killed by the Akatsuki?

[Abdula]

Naruto is blatantly the opposite, and if not for his ridiculously huge chakra capacity, he'd be dead a long time ago. Jiraiya wasn't as sharp as the genius of his era (Oro), and as the Third said himself, his only real strength was probably his cloaking techniques. In that regard, it would only make sense that he takes Naruto under his wing, while Kakashi spends more and more time with Sasuke.
Oh no you didn't just dis Jiraiya like that. Well you'll see:p


As their sensei, Kakashi also noticed the darkness within Sasuke's heart, on that isn't present in Naruto. He said in the beginning of the Sasuke Retrieval Arc that he taught Sasuke his Chidori to protect, and not for revenge. I think he also said that he was similar when he was young, and that revenge gets you nowhere.
Basically, I think Sasuke needed a lot more counseling from Kakashi, which might make him look like he's favouring him over Naruto.

Anyway, this is where you are right however. The point of Kakashi paying more attention to Sasuke was specifically because he was the last of the Uchiha. They wanted him to be as nurtured and protected as possible because not only did they fear that he would turn out like his brother did but they also found out that Orochimaru was interested in Sasuke as well.

Boy its hard talking about mediocre little stuff like this, why the hell am I even in the anime forum anyway. Okay I'm gone.

Well Kakashi scolds Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan, even though it's something that could help protect him against the Akatsuki. He taught Sasuke the Chidori to protect him, from Orochimaru, I think, but Kakashi says Naruto shouldn't have been taught his technique. So, he cares if Sasuke is taken by Orochimaru but he doesn't care if Naruto is taken and killed by the Akatsuki?
I think you misunderstand that part. It wasn't about whether he cared or not, it was about maturity level and Kakashi thought Naruto just wasn't ready yet and the fact is he wasn't. Jiraiya on the other hand thought that by taking Naruto under his wing he could help him, grow up, which didn't happen either. Besides neither technique, helped anything.

[jasminegreen]

Why on earth would Kakashi teach Sasuke Chidori then? He really wasn't ready. Kakashi thinks Naruto can't handle a powerful jutsu, but he taught an assassination technique to a kid whose whole life is power and vengence and he thought teaching Sasuke a technique would change him?

[Death BOO Z]

yes, Kakashi is all about Naruto.

he even brought in the super trainer ebisu to fill in for him.

not to mention the vast amounts of time they spent together, between the tree training and the hint (which came by awfully late) about the shadow clones training.

[Abdula]

I think it was stated very early on that Kakashi specifically was put in charge of Naruto, so it didn't matter who else was in Naruto's squad Kakashi was always going to be his teacher.

Why on earth would Kakashi teach Sasuke Chidori then? He really wasn't ready. Kakashi thinks Naruto can't handle a powerful jutsu, but he taught an assassination technique to a kid whose whole life is power and vengence and he thought teaching Sasuke a technique would change him?
Kakashi thought Sasuke chidori specifically to fight Gaara, because without it Sasuke wouldn't have even been able to touch Gaara and Gaara would have killed him.

[jasminegreen]

I like Kakashi, but as a mentor, he sucks. Kakashi seems to be kind of arrogant and snobby, he doesn't care for people that are anything less than what he is, a genius, like Sasuke. Naruto wasn't a tradional ninja, so Kakashi thought he was worthless. It's not just him training Sasuke, but his attitude in general towards Naruto seemed bad.

[Abdula]

Um, just how many episodes of Naruto have you seen? Have you watched any of Shippuden?

because that statement is just completely wrong.

[jasminegreen]

Um, just how many episodes of Naruto have you seen? Have you watched any of Shippuden?

because that statement is just completely wrong.
I've seen Shippuden, but Kakashi may only be training Naruto because of the lack of Sasuke. And maybe because Jiraiya told him to take care of Naruto.

[Abdula]

No no thats why I say you misunderstand. Naruto was always Kakashi's responsibility in the first place, the only reason he was focused on Sasuke was simply because Sasuke needed more attention. You yourself said Sasuke was power hungry and all about vengeance, and Kakashi was doing a good job of curbing Sasuke, that is until Itachi showed up.

[jasminegreen]

Exactally, Sasuke was still too young, if that one apperience from Itachi molded him like that. It's a saying that goes "Never assume anything." Kakashi assumed that he knew Sasuke better than anyone, he assumed Sasuke could handle Chidori and he assumed Sasuke wouldn't go to Orochimaru for power, look how well that worked out.

[Abdula]

Kakashi didn't assume anything. First off all like I said Kakashi taught Sasuke chidori to give him a fighting chance against Gaara nothing more than that, anyone who has watched the Chuunin exam arc should understand that much.

if that one apperience from Itachi molded him like that.
It wasn't just one appearance, Itachi is the strongest influence in Sasuke's life and has been ever since he was born, he is his older brother afterall. So I don't see what you're trying to imply.

[jasminegreen]

Kakashi wanted Sasuke to give up on revenge and focus on the friends he has now, and that appearence from Itachi completly warped Sasuke to a point where he attacked his friends. Kakashi taught Sasuke the Chidori, then in the VotE Sasuke almost killed Naruto with the Chidori. I wonder how Kakashi felt about that?

[Abdula]

Kakashi wanted Sasuke to give up on revenge and focus on the friends he has now, and that appearence from Itachi completly warped Sasuke to a point where he attacked his friends. You miss the point, seeing Itachi again didn't warp Sasuke, Sasuke was warped from the very beginning because of Itachi. Kakashi's and Naruto's influence on Sasuke was beginning to change that but Itachi showing up and then using his MS to make Sasuke relive the night his clan was killed over and over again just put him back where he started, and Oro used that opportunity and made everything worse.

Kakashi taught Sasuke the Chidori, then in the VotE Sasuke almost killed Naruto with the Chidori. I wonder how Kakashi felt about that?
What is your point. He is a teacher he isn't responsible for what the students choose to do with what he taught them. If he knew what was going to happen I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have taught him but the point is he didn't know. If Sarutobi had known that Oro was going to attack the village and kill him I'm sure he wouldn't have taught him. If Itachi's father knew what Itachi was going to do I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have taught him anything either.

Hell, if Einstein and the scientists who worked on The Manhattan Project knew what the outcome of their work was going to be, I'm sure they wouldn't have done it either.

[jasminegreen]

This is kind of off topic, but Kakashi is a hypocrit, the only thing he cares about is making Sasuke stronger, but he criticises everyone else's teachings. I already brought up him scolding Jiraiya about the Rasengan, but think back to the Chunin exam when Lee fought Gaara, Kakashi gets mad at Gai for teaching Lee the Gates. Gai tought Lee that technique for the same reason he taught Sasuke. He says to Gai "When we teach we never bring our personal feelings into play." Him training Sasuke was personal, some of the reasons given was he trained Sasuke because Sasuke was like him, and he teaches Sasuke Chidori, not just to beat Gaara but to protect the friends he has now, like he told Sasuke in episode 108, when he had Sasuke tied to the tree. That's personal. Kakashi has no room to tell Jiraiya anything about Naruto and Naruto not being ready, Jiraiya cares more for Naruto than he ever would and he makes an effort to teach Naruto and not give up on him because he's a slow learner. Team 7 is Kakashi's first time as a teacher, Jiraiya has trained other students, as shown in the flashback the Third had of the different teams when fighting Orochimaru,. Kakashi teaches 'one' student and all of a sudden he knows better than Jiraiya. Jiraiya knows Naruto, he was alot like him and spent more time with him in part 1 than Kakashi ever did. So when Kakashi criticises Jiraiya, he was out of line and it wasn't his place to say anything.

[DarthEnderX]

I think you're projecting. Kakashi is standoffish and disinterested in everyone. His subordinates, his peers, his superiors. Yes, he gave Sasuke more training, because they both have the Sharingan.

But any impression that Kakashi is somehow cold to Naruto, but caring to others, is your imagination. He's cold to everyone.


Also, it wasn't just seeing Itachi that causes Sasuke to turn. It was getting his ass kicked by him and being powerless to do anything against him. Sasuke went to Oro because he felt like he couldn't surpass Itachi being in Konoha. If Kakashi hadn't taught him the Chidori, he would have been even weaker, and left that much faster. The only way they were going to get Sasuke to stay was if they taught him MORE powerful techniques and he actually had been able to hold his own when Itachi showed up. Barring that, his leaving was a foregone conclusion.

[Abdula]

Also, it wasn't just seeing Itachi that causes Sasuke to turn. It was getting his ass kicked by him and being powerless to do anything against him. Sasuke went to Oro because he felt like he couldn't surpass Itachi being in Konoha. If Kakashi hadn't taught him the Chidori, he would have been even weaker, and left that much faster. The only way they were going to get Sasuke to stay was if they taught him MORE powerful techniques and he actually had been able to hold his own when Itachi showed up. Barring that, his leaving was a foregone conclusion.
You have no idea just how much of an understatement that is.

Anyway Jasminegreen, you should drop by the Introductions (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?t=15746&page=69) thread, there is this guy who will ask you if you're female and if you're hot but other than him, everyone here is pretty much okay.

[jasminegreen]

[QUOTE=DarthEnder]I think you're projecting. Kakashi is standoffish and disinterested in everyone. His subordinates, his peers, his superiors. Yes, he gave Sasuke more training, because they both have the Sharingan.

But any impression that Kakashi is somehow cold to Naruto, but caring to others, is your imagination. He's cold to everyone.


I know Kakashi isn't a caring person, but he just seemed to be at his coldest when it came to Naruto, he picked on him, called him stupid and talked down to him.

[Assassin]

Since you're obviously pretty fucking stupid, im going to post here to make sure you see this. Before you whine about how mean kakashi is to poor little naruto, read the fucking rules. You've mentioned information that hasn't been shown in the anime, and if you do that again im not going to be as nice as before.

The Rules (http://forums.gotwoot.net/forumdisplay.php?f=28)

[DarthEnderX]

I know Kakashi isn't a caring person, but he just seemed to be at his coldest when it came to Naruto, he picked on him, called him stupid and talked down to him.That's because Naruto IS stupid. And Kakashi is a straight shooter.

[jasminegreen]

Yeah, but he always ends up saving everyone.

[Abdula]

That's because Kishimoto is a bad writer.

[jasminegreen]

Naruto is really strong, and he can be smart, when it counts. He's kinda like Jiraiya.

[Abdula]

Except, that Jiraiya is really strong and he is smart.

[jasminegreen]

Naruto gets better......later.

[Abdula]

NO and you really shouldn't go around saying stuff like that. Bye.

[Archangel]

.... only Abdula would waste this much time

Seriously this has to be one of the most retarded discussions we've had on the naruto forum. Kakashi doesn't give a fuck about naruto? Then every time he saved his ass he was doing it for the adrenaline rush? I wouldn't even say he liked sasuke more, but even if he did i wouldn't blame him because they were so alike ( both geniuses, had lightining chakra, sharingan ) and that's the reason it was decided that he would train sasuke while naruto would stay with jiraya ( who were also alike ).

Now someone please:

a) ban that guy for the spoilers
b) move the thread to the manga forum
c) all of the above

[Death BOO Z]

the above may be true, but it doesn't change the facts that the guy(girl? come over to the introduction pit) has a point.

Kakashi was a bad trainer\teacher.
he ignored Sakura and Naruto since the tree climbing training.>>>
>>>> when the sandmen attack the village at the chunin exam, Kakashi reflects back and thinks he was right to teach her genjutsu at the first test (back in episode five, remember, when he shows the severed Sasuke head). which means, Kakashi hasn't paid attention to her since.
Naruto is an obvious one, Kishi couldn't even come up with a decent excuse why Kakashi didn't teach him the shadow clone method earlier, and the fact that Kakashi brought in EBISU to teach sasuke to fight against Neji.. that says it all.

Sasuke is a different subject, in this case, Kakashi was just over-estimating himself, thinking that he can control Sasuke's lust for power, he gave kept Sasuke crazy for power instead of teaching him the power of friendship.


team 7 was Kakashi first genin team, and he had no idea how to work with it. tough luck, guy doesn't care enough to be a teacher.

[jasminegreen]

I'm a girl. That's one of the things, Kakashi spoiled Sasuke. Sasuke is a genius, so i'm sure he noticed that Kakashi chose to train him over ther other two, so that may have inflated Sasuke's ego, he may figure that Kakashi sees him as the only one good enough to train. When Kakashi stops the first fight between Naruto and Sasuke, he tells Sasuke to watch the sense of superiority that he has, why wouldn't Sasuke feel superior when his teacher held him in higher regards than his other teammates, as far as he's concerned? Somebody said that Kakashi gave Sasuke a power up to keep him from leaving, so basically he tried to bribe Sasuke. Very rarely does anything good come from bribery.

[Archangel]

I'm a girl.

* Regains interest on this thread *

[Uchiha Barles]

I'm a girl. That's one of the things, Kakashi spoiled Sasuke. Sasuke is a genius, so i'm sure he noticed that Kakashi chose to train him over ther other two, so that may have inflated Sasuke's ego, he may figure that Kakashi sees him as the only one good enough to train. When Kakashi stops the first fight between Naruto and Sasuke, he tells Sasuke to watch the sense of superiority that he has, why wouldn't Sasuke feel superior when his teacher held him in higher regards than his other teammates, as far as he's concerned? Somebody said that Kakashi gave Sasuke a power up to keep him from leaving, so basically he tried to bribe Sasuke. Very rarely does anything good come from bribery.

NO no no, someone said it already. The power up, was taught to Sasuke to keep him from dying at the hands of Gaara. Hell, what training did kakashi give anyone? With the exception of the Chuunin exam, everyone only got basic training. Sasuke was going to fight gaara, who was going to kill him. Kakashi being the only one with the Sharingan, was the only one who could teach Sasuke how to make use of it, and he then gave him a technique to make use of it. Really, what other training did Sasuke get from kakashi? Sasuke only got the training he HAD to get to survive Gaara.

Next, Naruto. If Sasuke needs to survive Gaara, Kakashi doesn't have time to train Naruto. He has to focus on Sasuke. That's not to say you ought not have Naruto train, he's still in the competition. So Kakashi brought in Ebisu, knowing what Naruto's main weaknesses were...his basics. That was a fantastic move. Of course, he would've lost to Neiji had Ebisu trained him, but Neiji had no real reason to kill Naruto, that kakashi could see. So then, why did Jiraiya come and train Naruto? Because Jiraiya's aware of Naruto's demon fox, and some other stuff. He knows why Naruto's special, so he came to take over that training.

Keep in mind, all this is during the chuunin exam. After the Chuunin exam, there was the Naruto Gaara fight. After that fight, Sasuke got his ass kicked by Itachi and landed in the hospital. After that, Sasuke ran away. Kakashi showed next to 0 preferential treatment. He didn't even have a chance to. So now I'll summarise, Kakashi was the only one who could prepare Sasuke for Gaara on account of the Sharingan, so he did. Naruto got his special training from Jiraiya. Sakura was out of the competition by then, so there was no need to focus on her. I don't see how kakashi could've been a better teacher.

Also, kakashi did what he could to stop Sasuke from running, short of jailing him. He did try to them all the "power of friendship", in case you forgot all the cheese that first series oozed: "I won't let anyone on my team die" "letting your friends die make you an even bigger piece of crap, that's my way of the ninja", all of which was backed up by Kakashi's actions. Give the guy a break, he's fantastic.

[Sapphire]

^
Great post. Also the whole thing with Orochimaru's mark. Sasuke just had way more imminent danger and who to better help him than the person who has the same elemental strengths?

[DarthEnderX]

* Regains interest on this thread *Don't bother. Girls can't use the intraweb.

[staffcc]

While I think Kakashi liked Sasuke more, I don't think he has anything against Naruto.

[Assertn]

But now Kakashi is training only Naruto. Plus, this training is going to improve Naruto far more than Sasuke did from his training with Kakashi.

So why not drop it?

[Archangel]

So why not drop it?

I'm surprised a mod hasn't locked this yet, this is almost as stupid as the naruto vs. sasuke thread.

Feedback:


If you think my thread is so stupid then stop coming to it and reading it! If you didn't like it the first time you read, what makes you think you'll like it if you come back again?!? You've done nothing but jump down my throat, so just go away and leave my threads alone and bother someone else for a change. I already got the feeling you didn't l8ike it the first time, so just FUCK OFF will ya!

[Uchiha Barles]

She hasn't posted in a couple of days, I'm pretty sure it is dropped. Locked or not, it'll be on page 10^30 in no time.

edit: You know...if people like myself stop posting in it

[Assassin]

^what he said^

add something meaningful or let it die.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

But now Kakashi is training only Naruto. Plus, this training is going to improve Naruto far more than Sasuke did from his training with Kakashi.

So why not drop it?

I second this motion. Due to lack of proper evidence this case is dismissed!