Naruto Chapter 407 [Archive]

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 12:28 AM

You must be new to anime. Please enjoy.

See also: Death Note.
Freaking Xan and his witty responses.

Anyway that chapter was incredibly lame. If they kill the invicible Pain with a crappy Naruto rasengan I'm done with this series.

The question now, is this new body a dude or a chick??
Does it matter, really does it? I would think its just another androgynous Kishimoto character, he likes those. Anyway based on the facial features and even more so on height I would say its female.

Rikudo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 12:36 AM

There's really nothing empirical about this thought process...

Well, that's the first step of decryption. It doesn't mean they'll crack the code right away. Rule of decrypting is always start from the most simple possible solution before moving to a more advance technique.

Madara must know Pain's weakness if he can order him like his bitch.

Rikudo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 12:39 AM

So Pain can recruit more bodies if he loses any. The question now, is this new body a dude or a chick??

It's a midget transvestite.

XanBcoo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 12:39 AM

It doesn't mean they'll crack the code right away.
So...it looks like Onemanga doesn't realize that the rest of us can't read Japanese...

Here's another group's translation (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-407/page013.html)

"The real one isn't with them"

Props go to whoever guessed that Nagato was working as a puppetmaster over his bodies from elsewhere. This case is, anticlimactically, closed.

rockmanj

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:56 AM

Good find. Also I lol'd at page 12.

Sidnne

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:57 AM

Props go to whoever guessed that Nagato was working as a puppetmaster over his bodies from elsewhere. This case is, anticlimactically, closed.

I thought we knew that already?

Anyway, I like to think the decoding, "The Real One Isn't With Them," has a double meaning. The first referring to Pein's real body, which would mean to defeat Pein, Naruto has to find and kill Nagato. And the second referring to Naruto being the real destined child.

Naruto would be the most suited to fighting Pein. Kagebunshin vs Pein's bodies. Both can fight without having their real bodies enter the battle.
But, if Pein is coming to Konoha, then it likely won't be Naruto vs Pein 1v1. Others are sure to join the battle, so I wonder who else will be killed by Pein. Tsunade perhaps?

Uchiha Barles

Fri, 07-04-2008, 02:29 AM

If it turns out that that is in fact the code, this is beyond stupid. I mean it. Stupid doesn't begin to describe what this is. This is shit. Remembered the first letter of the first line on random pages, as he was being killed? How about this...he writes in some fucking other language "The real one isn't with them." or, writes is in pig latin: "the real one-ey isn't with them-ey" Whatever. It's less stupid than this. What the fuck.

Anyway, Naruto'd better be the one to kill Pein. It doesn't have to be this particular encounter. And if it's not, it better be next. And it better be believable how he does it, and it better not reek of cheese, and it better rock hard. In other words, It better be one of the best moments this story has known to date. I don't know if I can take anymore of this.

kAi

Fri, 07-04-2008, 02:41 AM

I was expecting more to the message than that, I wonder if there is more to it.

Pain is on the move to Konoha now, I'm trying to think how this part is going to turn out. Is Naruto gunna get captured and taken with him? Will Naruto (or others) defeat him? Will Naruto lose the kyubi?

Not sure on which direction it is going to take, but I don't think Naruto is going to defeat Pain in this encounter or anyone defeat him for that matter. But, I also don't think Naruto is going to get captured.

SilentSnake

Fri, 07-04-2008, 04:43 AM

I have no idea what are the first words on pages and lines of a barely 30 page long work, Jiraiya remembering stuff like that is just ridiculous :P

What if they changed the font in it - it would all go shit haha.

We'd get a message "I must be the biggest pervert ever" instead of "The real one is not with them" :D

Kakashi reading out loud was the best part of the chapter ;)

Idealistic

Fri, 07-04-2008, 08:47 AM

Nobody touched on Sasuke. He most defintiely got manipulated. I'm sure the story Madara told is true and he's just using it to his advantage. But who is the 8-tails? Someone from Roots?

Garhert

Fri, 07-04-2008, 08:49 AM

So Pain can recruit more bodies if he loses any. The question now, is this new body a dude or a chick??

It's Jiraya, so it is a dude :cool:

I wonder who the eighth Bijuu is and how strong he is...

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 09:59 AM

Naruto would be the most suited to fighting Pain. Kagebunshin vs Pain's bodies. That is so ridiculous what the hell is Naruto's useless shadow clones gonna do against Pain and his bodies. The dude can seemingly resurrect them at will and each of them have their own unique and weird abilities. What are Naruto's useless one hit and and you're done shadow clones gonna do against Pain. Its not like they will all be able to use the wind rasengan and nothing else will be powerful enough to matter even if he tries we saw what Pain did to Jiraiya's rasengan and even if Naruto does manage to hit atleast one of Pains bodies with the rasengan we don't even know if its gonna matter.

Besides that Naruto hasn't been able to use his shadow clones effectively against someone with one point of view much less six, not to mention all of Pain's ridiculous summons and whatever his other bodies can do, we still don't even know what his rinnegan can do. I think Naruto is the person least suited to fighting with Pein, that battle would take all of a few seconds.

it better be believable how he does it, and it better not reek of cheese, and it better rock hard. In other words, It better be one of the best moments this story has known to date. I don't know if I can take anymore of this.
I agree with you on the other stuff but honestly what do you think the odds are of it turning out to be anything good?

But who is the 8-tails? Someone from Roots?
What the hell ever gave you the idea that the eight tails would be in Konoha?

Sidnne

Fri, 07-04-2008, 10:16 AM

That is so ridiculous what the hell is Naruto's useless shadow clones gonna do against Pain and his bodies. The dude can seemingly resurrect them at will and each of them have their own unique and weird abilities. What are Naruto's useless one hit and and you're done shadow clones gonna do against Pain. Its not like they will all be able to use the wind rasengan and nothing else will be powerful enough to matter even if he tries we saw what Pain did to Jiraiya's rasengan and even if Naruto does manage to hit atleast one of Pains bodies with the rasengan we don't even know if its gonna matter.

Besides that Naruto hasn't been able to use his shadow clones effectively against someone with one point of view much less six, not to mention all of Pain's ridiculous summons and whatever his other bodies can do, we still don't even know what his rinnegan can do. I think Naruto is the person least suited to fighting with Pein, that battle would take all of a few seconds.

You've been reading this manga for how long now? How the hell is it ridiculous when we already KNOW that that's how its going to be?
You know that Kishi is setting this encounter up to be a battle between two people who fight with multiples.

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 10:20 AM

You've been reading this manga for how long now? How the hell is it ridiculous when we already KNOW that that's how its going to be?
You know that Kishi is setting this encounter up to be a battle between two people who fight with multiples.
So your point is because we know that that's how its going to happen then it isn't ridiculous.:rolleyes:

Psyke

Fri, 07-04-2008, 10:32 AM

I too, find the "code" incredibly dumb, and Jiraiya making 1 round turn and 2 half hitches at the brink of death to do so, is really ridiculous. Hopefully that's not all there is to the code.

More on the code for those interested:

The first kanji of each line reads: 本物葉意無椅, which sounds like 本物はいない. Meaning is broken down as such:

本物 = real one
は = is
いない = not here

Idealistic

Fri, 07-04-2008, 10:50 AM

What the hell ever gave you the idea that the eight tails would be in Konoha?

Because I thought Madara wanted Sasuke to go after Konoha as well. And I don't remember reading anything about Sasuke going after the 8-tails in the previous chapters.

Don't try to sound too smart now.

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 10:58 AM

Don't try to sound too smart now.:rolleyes:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/15/
If you read the chapter from the beginning, in exchange for teaming up with akatsuki Sasuke will get to keep the eight tails for himself when he captures it.

XanBcoo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 11:24 AM

So your point is because we know that that's how its going to happen then it isn't ridiculous.:rolleyes:
I think he's saying it's pretty fucking likely that Naruto will be the one to fight Pain.

Possibly Kakashi, but it will almost certain be Naruto. I'm inclined to agree.

toonice714

Fri, 07-04-2008, 11:31 AM

That extra Pein body was Konan. I thought that was obvious. That is the trick to his stupid eye technique. Its a glorified marrionette technique. Rinnengan is the ultimate puppet jutsu. It lets you control your "puppets" from a remote location. That why all those ninja looked familiar to Jiraiya. They were probably ninja he beat that nagato salvaged.

I wish we got some more stuff to read out of the Icha icha paradise series. lol shikamaru looks scarred for life.

XanBcoo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 11:33 AM

It's not Konan, she was sitting in front of Pain when he got up. The extra body appeared from the shadows, behind him.

He's saying "Get ready, Konan," because Akatsuki always move in groups of 2.

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 11:48 AM

I think he's saying it's pretty fucking likely that Naruto will be the one to fight Pain.

Possibly Kakashi, but it will almost certain be Naruto. I'm inclined to agree.
I think you misunderstand what I mean. I know whats he is saying and I too think its likely, you should get that if you read my previous posts. My point is how does whether it actually happens or not make it any less ridiculous. What I disagree with is that he thinks Naruto is best suited to fight Pain just because Naruto can make copies of himself. Then he said this

Both can fight without having their real bodies enter the battle.
How likely do you think it is that Naruto's real body wouldn't be involved in this and unlike Naruto's shadow clones Pein's bodies are actually real bodies not just clones. Plus we still have to consider that Naruto is a complete idiot and what are the odds of him remaining calm against the person who killed Jiraiya.

Anyway him saying Naruto is best suited to fighting Pain is what I disagree with. Naruto uses a total of two techniques, even if he makes a thousand shadow clones it wouldn't matter because his taijutsu skills suck, not that taijutsu would mean anything to Pain and the only technique he has that is powerful enough to make a difference in battle is his wind rasengan which he can't seem to hit people with and even he if does hit one of Pains bodies with it and it totally destroys that body so Pain can't revive it he still has other bodies to deal with and the wind rasengan does an immense amount of damage to his own body as well. The only person Naruto is best suited to fight is Sasuke and I'm not sure that thats even true anymore.

The best way to defeat Pein would be to separate his bodies and have one person fight each body. I think the fact that Jiraiya lost to Pain the way he did means its very unlikely that anyone is going to be able to take on Pain's bodies one and one(one on six, 1000 on six, whatever you know what I mean) especially if his real body isn't even there.

I'm really surprised you didn't get what I meant Xan.

XanBcoo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 11:55 AM

Oh sorry, I agree it's ridiculous. Statement retracted.

I honestly can't imagine how the fight will play out, but the mass Kage Bunshin does give Naruto an edge over anyone else who would fight Pain. Despite Naruto's shortcomings, he's been blessed with the ability to churn out a clone army. He's got more dispensable bodies than Pain does, so it's not as dangerous for him.

Assertn

Fri, 07-04-2008, 11:57 AM

What the hell ever gave you the idea that the eight tails would be in Konoha?
Because Sora's the eight tails jinchurriki.

unandpw

Fri, 07-04-2008, 12:31 PM

Because Sora's the eight tails jinchurriki.

I don't believe he's ever mentioned in the manga...

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:08 PM

I don't believe he's ever mentioned in the manga...
Wow, you so just killed Assertn's joke.

Despite Naruto's shortcomings, he's been blessed with the ability to churn out a clone army. He's got more dispensable bodies than Pain does, so it's not as dangerous for him.
That is one way to look at it. As far as I see it Naruto only has one body while Pain has six. Naruto's shadow clones would only be advantageous if he had other techniques he could get his clones to use but as I said all he's got is the rasengan. Secondly the only way Naruto's army of shadow clones would matter is if he got them to all attack at once but when he attacks with his clones they usually attack one group at a time, with no more than six in each group.

If it was anyone other than Naruto I would say their chances of defeating Pain would greatly increase if they could use Naruto abilities but with Naruto that isn't the case because not only does he use his abilities ineffectively but Pain is already aware of Naruto's abilities and his battle tactics, and unlike other ninjas Naruto has nothing else to offer. Anyway, we can discuss this as much as we want but Naruto's army of clones hardly ever makes a difference and the only person who was defeated simply because of the massive number of clones Naruto can make was Mizuki.

Archangel

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:08 PM

Anyway that chapter was incredibly lame. If they kill the invicible Pain with a crappy Naruto rasengan I'm done with this series.

We'll miss you here in the manga forum Abdula

I honestly can't imagine how the fight will play out, but the mass Kage Bunshin does give Naruto an edge over anyone else who would fight Pain. Despite Naruto's shortcomings, he's been blessed with the ability to churn out a clone army. He's got more dispensable bodies than Pain does, so it's not as dangerous for him.

Thing is that except for the ones that help him make rasengan they're all fucking useless.

Anyway i'm guessing that there will be 2 fights between pain and Naruto:

- First one Naruto will be incredibly fucking pissed at the sight of Jiraya's murderer and go kyuubi on his ass, maybe 5+ tails i don't know, and maybe take out a body or 2

- Then he'll get back to normal and defeat him with ( duh ) the wind rasengan but here's the thing, i'm not sure if Pain uses dead body's for his clones since this last one showed Konan as the new sixth body but if he does we'll probably see Jiraya with the rinnegan on this fight too.

I'm never right about this things since i like to think outside the box and Kishimoto obviously doesn't but what the hell ( the code decipherment was so fucking retarded... )

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:25 PM

i'm not sure if Pain uses dead body's for his clones since this last one showed Konan as the new sixth body
Thats not Konan!!! Konan (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/407/16/), new body (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/407/17/). Didn't want to have to post just for that but use your eyes!

Archangel

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:35 PM

U misunderstand me. I'm saying that shows that Pain is able to use bodies other than just dead ones since konan is indeed alive and next to him.

XanBcoo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:38 PM

Idealistic

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:41 PM

:rolleyes:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/15/
If you read the chapter from the beginning, in exchange for teaming up with akatsuki Sasuke will get to keep the eight tails for himself when he captures it.

HEHEHE. I knew that. Just testing you that's all.

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 01:45 PM

Uh huh.

Anyway @ Archangel: Xan already said what I was going to say but still Jiraiya said he had previously fought the bodies Pain was using, he never said he killed them. If he had already killed them I doubt he would have been surprised that they came back to life after he killed them a second time.

chet_chetty

Fri, 07-04-2008, 02:06 PM

When some of us say Naruto will be the one to defeat Pein, I thought it was duly implied that we're not referring to Naruto with his current skill set and level.

Assertn

Fri, 07-04-2008, 02:58 PM

Maybe the new body is Naruto's mom? She looked kinda like that, right?

XanBcoo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 03:21 PM

Comparison? (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/382/10/)

I dunno, there's not enough similarity between them thus far. Also his mom had long hair. This body has short hair, and as we all know, the only thing constant in an anime character's life is their hairstyle.

Assertn

Fri, 07-04-2008, 03:38 PM

I thought an earlier picture of her had short hair....

RyougaZell

Fri, 07-04-2008, 04:32 PM

Carnage

Fri, 07-04-2008, 05:46 PM

I can't believe I'm saying this but Shikamaru should die after having given that speech the previous chapter.

Archangel

Fri, 07-04-2008, 05:54 PM

I just hope Pein kills more shinobi from Konoha... preferably some of the 'rookie 9 + gai team'. He is so damn awesome it would be the lamest point for Kishimoto to kill him off just having killed Jiraiya and no one else.

Well Asuma and Jiraya have already have already been killed off so i guess any character except Naruto is a possibility.

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 06:40 PM

Actually as we've discussed before there are two characters who have a high probability of dying. Kakashi and Tsunade.

Garhert

Fri, 07-04-2008, 07:22 PM

New Body (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/407/17/)
Young Jiraiya (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/405/17/)

Look at his eyes. The "lines" under Jirayias eyes grewed up with his age. As he was young they were just short. Same for the new Body of Pein. So why would Kishi put "lines" on the eyes of the new body (nobody else has), showed us pictures from Jiraiya when he was young, if it's not him?
Maybe I'm totally wrong but atm im sure it is Jiraiya.

Abdula

Fri, 07-04-2008, 07:39 PM

This is insane. Why can't you guys just accept that Pain's new body is someone we haven't seen before or that we simply don't know who it is yet. Other than Yahiko we don't even know who his other bodies are. All we know is that they are random ninjas Jiraiya has met in his lifetime.

First its Konan, then its Kushina, now its Jiraiya. Its not Jiraiya everything about that new body from the facial features to the height suggest that its female, especially the hair style. Proof its not Jiraiya, Jiraiya is much taller and as we saw during Pein's fight with Jiraiya when Pain took over those bodies, other than the piercings and the rinnegan he doesn't change their bodies at all, not even the hair. Anyway even though there are so many other things I could use to show its not Jiraiya one of which being, how the hell did Pain make him younger, there is this. The lines under the eyes are far too short for it to be Jiraiya.

Ya know what never mind, I'm just annoyed by the crazy theories.

Rikudo

Fri, 07-04-2008, 09:59 PM

For once, I'm going to agree with what Abdula have all said. It seems like he's the only one who actually reads the manga and analyzed the details. There were so many dumb comments in this thread it's not even funny.

Anyways, back to the story. I think the new gal in Pain's collective is a genjutsu technique user. Having just beaten Jiraiya, Pain just gained a new level of experience from fighting a sannin. BTW, does anyone think Orochimaru would have given Pain a harder time in his prime?

Uchiha Barles

Fri, 07-04-2008, 11:38 PM

I guess I'm still stuck in the past when Naruto did pretty well against Shukakku-Gaara using his Shadow Clones. I forget that ever since then he hasn't really done anything useful with them.

There's still the possibility that Fukusaku will train Naruto before he goes off, as well. Maybe now that Naruto's been recognized by Jiraiya, the toad sages will fight alongside him.
.

This is exactly what keeps me going. What Naruto did way back in episodes 78-80 of the anime. Also, his fights with Sasuke weren't stupid at all. It's soooooooo bad that's that's really all there is to hold on to with this character.

I wonder though...how's this not going to suck? The assault on Konoha is immanent, he shouldn't have time to train, though I guess they could pull something off with the bunshin training. Actually, there might be hope. I was thinking that the power that Itachi gave him might manifest, but that's probably going to be something reserved for when he sees Sasuke. So...training in a few techniques, mastering the wind rasengan, and pein...yeah...lets hope so.

XanBcoo

Sat, 07-05-2008, 12:58 AM

It seems like he's the only one who actually reads the manga and analyzed the details.
lol wut? At least you're leaving yourself out of that category. I'm not entirely sure where you got this idea:

I think the new gal in Pain's collective is a genjutsu technique user.
"Analyzing the details" indeed...

Ya know what never mind, I'm just annoyed by the crazy theories.
Some are crazier than others. Clearly that's not Jiraiya (I'm convinced Garhert was being sarcastic in that post), and I personally am not convinced it's Naruto's mom, but the whole last page seems constructed in a way to make this new girl seem very important, or as if we're supposed to recognize her. Like you, I think it's someone new, but after only seeing 2 panels it's really still up in the air.

Why is it so crazy to think that it could possibly be Kushina, or even maybe Rin, Kakashi's old teammate? Edit: And in hindsight, it really would have been in Pain's best interest to use Jiraiya's dead body, rather than this new mystery-girl.

Actually, there might be hope. I was thinking that the power that Itachi gave him might manifest,
Oh great, he's going to spew a mouthful of crows at Pain now. This should be a fun battle.

Abdula

Sat, 07-05-2008, 02:13 AM

Why is it so crazy to think that it could possibly be Kushina, or even maybe Rin, Kakashi's old teammate? Edit: And in hindsight, it really would have been in Pain's best interest to use Jiraiya's dead body, rather than this new mystery-girl.

Well its not that its so crazy, well it is crazy but it just seemed like every third post was a new theory with seemingly little to no thought put into it, I just got annoyed that's all. Obviously Assertn is an exception but lets not stroke his ego anymore than he already does.

Without a doubt Jiraiya would be a great addition to Pain's collection but I don't think he chooses his bodies simply based on strength. Pain's bodies seem to all fill a niche, that is that he has each of them for a specific purpose and each of them compliments another and together they make up for each others weaknesses, making them seem invincible.

If you look at it in that respect then having a body whose abilities compliment the others would make much more sense than just simply having a strong guy, albeit a very strong one.

XanBcoo

Sat, 07-05-2008, 02:41 AM

So if he's going to fill the gap with a similar body to the one he lost...

Looking back, it was the Summoning body that Pain lost, so this new girl will probably make up for that (just as Jiraiya could have, oddly enough...)

Darthmoe

Sat, 07-05-2008, 12:18 PM

All i want to say is that Pain looks so bad ass

Archangel

Sat, 07-05-2008, 06:42 PM

Ok quick question

Since the left eye of the MS is supposed to hold the strongest Genjutsu, how come we haven't seen any of that from kakashi's MS?

Abdula

Sat, 07-05-2008, 06:59 PM

Because that was unique to Itachi. Its not just having MS that gives you the ability, Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu were his own techniques as was Susano'o. Sasano'o in particular is a very interesting technique since he uses it like a summon and it obviously existed somewhere else since Oro was searching for the sword so I have no idea how he could have suddenly gained that ability when he killed his best friend.

Then again alot of things in Naruto don't make sense like, how the hell did Minato have a shinigami at his beck and call.

Rikudo

Sat, 07-05-2008, 11:12 PM

Then again alot of things in Naruto don't make sense like, how the hell did Minato have a shinigami at his beck and call.

It's a forbidden technique. I think anyone who can summon made a pact with whatever it's summoning in exchange for something. Like how Manda told Oro to give him a hundred of humans to eat after getting stabbed by Gama's sword after the Sannin fight arc.

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 10:03 AM

You miss the point, how the hell did Minato come into contact with a shinigami in the first place especially considering that they are invisible to normal people. Saying its a forbidden technique doesn't mean anything. Oro and Manda are a good example, supposedly Manda was Oro's first pet so Oro must've ran into him sometime when he was younger and that's how they came to know each other, same thing with Jiraiya he found the mountain the toads live on and they trained him.

I'd imagine it would be a similar case with every summon we've seen thus far because they all existed somewhere in the world, even the tailed-beasts. That isn't the case with the shinigami though because they aren't of this world and even if they are in this world no one can see them, they can't even detect their presence so how did Minato find one.

Uchiha Barles

Sun, 07-06-2008, 10:50 AM

That doesn't seem like too much of a mystery. Sure we don't know how he did it, but there are other techniques like it. For instance, Oro "reviving" the dead. More specifically, restoring their personalities to their bodies. While their "spirits" might not have existed on "earth", we can guess that wherever they existed, was accessible to humans with enough knowledge about that kind of stuff. You would imagine a similar principle for summoning the death god. He might not exist on earth, but wherever he does exist, someone with the proper knowledge can gain access to him. I mean, I may have written the obvious, but that's kind of what the question called for, because we all know that there are things yet to be revealed in the series. The rules have not all been laid out, so to speak.

More specifically, there probably is a spirit realm in the narutoverse. Kishimoto did say in an interview that Narutoverse "jutsu" are nothing more than D&D type spells with somatic components replacing verbal components. D&D had spells of that nature. So, it's reasonable to assume that there's some kind of incantation (instead of jutsu, because of the nature of the subject matter we're discussing) that allows access to the spirit realm and communion with it's denizens. Furthermore, we all know Kishi is a big dragonball fan, and many of the things in Naruto are in homage to that series and its sequels. Dragonball as well as dragonball Z had such a spirit realm. Hell, the living could travel to and from it and remain alive.

So yeah, Minato encountering a death god doesn't seem that big of a mystery, there is precedence for it happening, and several reasonable theories as to how it could happen.

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 11:11 AM

Yes, I agree with you and you are right its not without precedence. I think we had this same discussion about Oro and Edo Tensei as well too. Anyway you are right, there are any number of reasonable theories as to how it could happen but there is a difference between theorizing how things could have happened and Kishi telling us how they happened. Anyway this wouldn't be a problem if the Narutoverse just didn't have any rules but Kishi insists on giving his world rules that he just ignores whenever it suits him. That discussion about Naruto's shadow clones in the anime thread in a good example.

Anyway, Minato and Edo Tensei aren't what I'm interested in right now. I wanna know what you think about Itachi getting Susano'o after killing his best friend. Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu are one thing because for the most part they are simple enough and its reasonable to think that when he gained MS he got those abilities and he practiced and refined them into what they are, similar to Kakashi who I'm sure will perfect his time/space doujutsu in time, but Sasano'o.

Assassin

Sun, 07-06-2008, 11:21 AM

I think the moral of the story is, kishimoto is a crack head who really hasn't thought anything through and is pulling shit out of his ass in a pathetic attempt to keep this series interesting.

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 11:26 AM

And there we have Assasin's interpretation of Naruto and what an apt description it is.

Uchiha Barles

Sun, 07-06-2008, 11:28 AM

I can't really say anything specific on Susano, because I have no real clue as to what it is. However, I will GUESS that it's a denizen of the spirit world that PROBABLY exists in Naruto. I will also GUESS that Itachi, one way or another, had access to that realm. I'll sharpen that a little. Itachi's sharingan probably gave him access to that realm. Once he came into contact with Susano, he PROBABLY used the sharingan to bind Susano, probably in conjunction with some other jutsu as well.

In other words, Susano is probably not a technique that comes with the Sharingan. Instead, the Sharingan probably made it possible, or at least easier, to bind it. As you can see, there's a lot of guessing going on here. That's because we don't know very much at all about Susano, giving us very little foundation to make predictions. And unless that's one of the techniques Itachi transfered to Naruto, I doubt we'll be getting much more information about it, unfortunately.

edited for spelling

XanBcoo

Sun, 07-06-2008, 01:14 PM

I applaud your attempts to rationalize the Jutsu, but I don't think it's any more complicated than "Kishimoto wanted to give the Mangekyou a third, unexpectedly powerful jutsu". It had probably existed in Kishimoto's mind long before the battle, but he never made any attempts at hinting at it or trying to explain it.

For the record, at first I thought it was a Summon that only those with the MS could use, now I kinda think it's just a manifestation of Chakra that the Sharingan produces. It's either of those, I'm sure.

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 01:26 PM

Couldn't it be both. Based on everything, I think it indeed was a summon just not a normal one. It is most definitely a manifestation of chakra and from what I saw I think Itachi had it sealed within his eyes, but it had to have existed as an actual being in the real world at some point since Oro was searching for it.

XanBcoo

Sun, 07-06-2008, 01:30 PM

I think he was "searching" (in the sense of "researching") for it after only having heard of it, and wasn't able to simply because it's only a technique the Sharigan can control.

I don't see why it had to exist in the real world at all.

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 01:45 PM

How the hell would he have heard of it if no one in Akatsuki including him knew Itachi had that technique. If Itachi kept it a secret for all those years how would Oro have found out about it even Zetsu didn't know about the technique.

Beyond that its implied that Oro was searching for that sword long before Itachi even showed up, that could never be if the sword was merely just one of the sharingans techniques.. Read one (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/16/) and two (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/17/) and tell me what you think.

XanBcoo

Sun, 07-06-2008, 01:53 PM

I don't know how you missed Zetsu saying "a sword with no real physical form," but that seems to answer part of your question. It only exists in the "spirit realm". It could possibly be accessed by means other than the Sharingan, but that's all we've seen so far, and probably all we ever will.

Just because it exists in another realm doesn't mean Oro and Zetsu couldn't have any knowledge of it. Orochimaru dove very heavily into the occult in his past, so it's not weird to assume he knows about something like that. As you said before, there are countless other techniques that would have required prior knowledge before their use, but all that was ignored. I'm not going to do anything else besides accept this at face value.

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 02:12 PM

Lol, I think we both got confused. I didn't miss that, what I mean is the sword had to have existed before Itachi got the technique, spirit sword or not. I thought you were saying that the sword was essentially Itachi's own creation which is why I said how would Oro have heard of it if they didn't even know Itachi had that technique. What I meant is that Oro couldn't find the sword because wherever it was Itachi had gotten to it first, which is why Oro couldn't find it.

Anyway again we strayed from what I actually want to discuss which is how could Itachi suddenly have gotten it after killing his best friend because from the way he talks about it here (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/392/02/) its like bam I kill my best friend and I become a god, thats some Berserk stuff right there. Kishi doesn't make it seem like he had to do anything at all to master the techniques or get Susano'o, his best friend dies and Itachi gets all powerful jutsus, now thats some Inuyasha crap.

Anyway I'm done manufacturing discussion for today.

Archangel

Sun, 07-06-2008, 02:15 PM

Anyway I'm done manufacturing discussion for today.

About fucking time xD

When are you guys gonna learn that no good can come from overthinking when it comes to Naruto? Just embrace the fact that Kishimoto is the most random SoB on the face of the earth and be done with it.

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 02:26 PM

You are so predictable, but I can't help but throw a dog a bone. Anyway we don't need to learn anything and we're not over thinking anything. This was a lame chapter and there was nothing being discussed so like I normally do, I decided to manufacture some discussion. Btw Kishi isn't that bad at all, if you want random check out Inuyasha or Gantz.

XanBcoo

Sun, 07-06-2008, 02:29 PM

I thought you were saying that the sword was essentially Itachi's own creation which is why I said how would Oro have heard of it if they didn't even know Itachi had that technique.
I had just assumed that people in the Narutoverse knew of its existence but didn't know how to access it. Mangekyou Sharingan was the key to unlocking it that no one had previously known about.

Then when Itachi starts using it with Mangekyou, Oro's all "Ohhh, so that's how to get it!"

That was my first assumption at least. Also I guess this means that Madara/Obito/Tobi can use it as well.

This was a lame chapter and there was nothing being discussed so like I normally do, I decided to manufacture some discussion.
I certainly won't fault you for that...

Assertn

Sun, 07-06-2008, 02:33 PM

Many of us weren't surprised about the existence of a 3rd MS jutsu.
Susanoo is part of the same mythologies as Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi, so we pretty much knew the name ahead of time as well.

We also suspected that, since Amaterasu is ninjutsu, and Tsukuyomi is genjutsu, that Susanoo would be taijutsu...which....I suppose it sorta is...

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 02:37 PM

Hey hey, not everyone believed it was taijutsu. There were a few who believed it was a summoning, I should know I was one of them. In a sense I guess both groups were right.

Sidnne

Sun, 07-06-2008, 07:04 PM

The best way to defeat Pein would be to separate his bodies and have one person fight each body. I think the fact that Jiraiya lost to Pain the way he did means its very unlikely that anyone is going to be able to take on Pain's bodies one and one(one on six, 1000 on six, whatever you know what I mean) especially if his real body isn't even there.

That's exactly why I feel Naruto to be the best suited. He probably has the best chance at separating Pein's bodies. If its 1v1, then all of Pein's bodies can be focus on that one person and be in the same area without really having to be too concerned with multiple angles of attack.

With 1,000 clones, Naruto can lure the bodies away from one another and also attack from multiple angles. I'm not saying Naruto is smart enough to do that, but if he were a more intelligent Ninja, then with his abilities he is the best suited.

With my statement about not having to have their real bodies in the battle, I'm hoping Naruto will fight Pein's bodies with his clones, while he seeks out the real Pein with his own real body. Not saying that's going to happen either, just saying the potential is there.

Death BOO Z

Sun, 07-06-2008, 07:20 PM

so, the entire code was based on the fact that Jiraya can't write a decent T?

we still need to see what payne's group makes of this code (if the msg was coded, then it's safe to assume it fell to the hands of the enemy), maybe they get a different msg, maybe payne also knows Jiraya's T and knows that the leaf know his secret.

new body - the eyes looked sort of like Kurenei's eyes, didn't they? I think that the entire scene was done to show us that Payne is still kicking at large, and wasn't damaged by the fight with Jiraya. hence, who ever gets to kill him has to outbest Jiraya and beat Payne's perfect six bodies.
I wish it was really Jiraya, then Naruto would have a reson to go 3-tails and then say "the real jiraya wasn't so weak! " a-la- Gon style.

Msg - maybe we are looking at this the wrong way? maybe he's telling Naruto that Payne is actually a good guy being manipulated by the baddies? maybe 'the real one isn't with them' refers to the 'true' payne student, who is locked away in the tower of doom while Qunan is abusing his powers?

Idealistic

Sun, 07-06-2008, 08:00 PM

we still need to see what payne's group makes of this code (if the msg was coded, then it's safe to assume it fell to the hands of the enemy), maybe they get a different msg, maybe payne also knows Jiraya's T and knows that the leaf know his secret.

But that's why they are invading Konoha right now. It's because they don't know what the code is, except that it could lead to the discovery of the real Pain or where he is.

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 08:31 PM

I really don't see what the damn point of Jiraiya leaving that message was. "The real one isn't there" how the hell does that help them. They don't know where the real one is so knowing the real one isn't there isn't going to help them any because they still have to defeat those six.

@Sidnne except for the fact that Naruto's clones don't mean anything, punching and/or kicking Pain's bodies a bunch of times isn't going to make one damn bit of difference and at best Naruto can only use Wind rasengan three times and we don't even know if that jutsu is going to be able to put Pain down, if he even manages to hit him. Secondly I think you must think that Pain is a moron, because he already knows about Naruto's rasengan and his shadow clones so why the hell would he waste his time going after shadow clones when he knows all he has to do is get the real one. Plus you're thinking that Naruto's shadow clones, themselves are something to be feared which is just plain untrue.

His clones are even more inept that he is and the only threat they pose is the wind rasengan and due to the its size and the noise its makes it would be impossible not to notice it and unlike that BS kishi pulled on Kakuzu he can't simply just distract him with clones and then attack from behind because there are six bodies who can see from each others viewpoints, they are going to be watching each others backs so there is no way they would miss something like that.

Bottom line is Pain is superior to Naruto, even if Naruto's abilities give him a better chance at beating Pain than anyone else simply have better odds is not going to be enough and Naruto's stupidity negates whatever advantage his Naruto abilities give him and his genin tactics aren't going to work on someone Jiraiya couldn't beat. For all Naruto's ability he has always struggled in battle and that was just against one opponent. Not only will he be fighting six different opponents at once when he fights Pain but its safe to assume that Pain is stronger than anyone else Naruto has faced thus far. At this point, by himself Naruto just doesn't stand a chance.

@DBZ, this is the third time I've noticed you doing it and if you do it one more time I'm going to smack you upside the head. Stop comparing Naruto to Gon!

Archangel

Sun, 07-06-2008, 10:22 PM

At this point, by himself Naruto just doesn't stand a chance.

I agree that Pain is the strongest enemy that Naruto has ever faced so far but the thing is all he has to do is find the real body and get a lucky shot with wind rasengan. it sucks but it's probably what's gonna happen...

Abdula

Sun, 07-06-2008, 11:17 PM

You make it sound like thats easy. For starters the real body doesn't even travel with the others so how would he find him. Nagato has probably sealed himself away somewhere like he had those bodies locked away when we were first introduced to Pain. Finding him is going to be extremely difficult and even if they do figure out where he is, he is a master of sealing jutsus so getting to him without him letting you do it would be close to impossible. Finally there is this, Jiraiya said that Nagato was a genius and mastered all six elements at age 10, so I would say that the real Nagato is stronger than all of his other bodies, plus he still has the rinnegan and we still don't know jack about what that can do.

XanBcoo

Mon, 07-07-2008, 12:51 AM

Yeah, I'm also a little confused as to how Jiraiya's message will help Konoha.

In the next chapter, Fukusaku will tell them about the fight with Pain and they'll figure out that the six bodies are indeed puppets, but where do they go from there? Does anyone besides Jiraiya actually know about Nagato? Even if they did, will Jiraiya's code help them figure out where he is?

I really hope there's more to this.

Raven

Mon, 07-07-2008, 03:36 AM

We'll probably have about 6 months worth of chapters now that show Sasuke's team's fight with the 8-tails. Personally I think it'll be a loooong time before any more Pein let alone an actual attack on Konoha, maybe even the new year.

Then again, I might be wrong.

Uberbaka

Mon, 07-07-2008, 07:28 AM

I still believe Peins fighting tactics are a total set up for a large scale team/cooperative battle which will "teach" us to appreciate our friends and to prove that you need your loved ones etc yadda yadda, it just isn't viable for one person (especially naruto) to beat him.

Which is why I fear a Naruto and Sasuke reunion coming up sooner or later... possibly with sasuke having his own x-tails.

Archangel

Mon, 07-07-2008, 12:32 PM

You make it sound like thats easy.

No, but if i asked u a couple months ago if Naruto has any chance against the zombie dude you'd laugh in my face and he did manage to get him with the most fucking retarded strategy ever and a lucky shot from the wind rasengan.

That technique is building up to be a even bigger hack than the sharingan, in theory there isn't anyone Naruto can't kill right now with the possible exception of Tobi/Madara/Obito

Abdula

Mon, 07-07-2008, 12:37 PM

I think you misunderstand what we are discussing here. What we're talking about is how a real fight would probably go not what shit Kishi is going to pull. Everyone here has already accepted that Kishi is most likely going to give Naruto a cheap victory over Pain. Ofcourse there isn't anyone that Naruto can't beat, that's just because there is a biased idiot doing the writing. You're kinda slow on the uptake, huh.

Archangel

Mon, 07-07-2008, 12:42 PM

I like to think of myself as realistic, not really interested on discussing on how awesome the fight between those 2 would be just to get my hopes and dreams shattered by Kishi's retardeness.

*comment deleted to put a smile on abdula's face *

Abdula

Mon, 07-07-2008, 12:47 PM

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 07-07-2008, 01:54 PM

Like I say, you just choose to be an idiot. That would have actually been a good post if you didn't include that last idiotic remark. Anyway despite the fact that Kishi is ruining the series, and shattering your hopes and dreams, the only reason most of us are still here is because we are hoping he will wake up one day and things will be better. Well that's not completely true because I'm just waiting for HxH.

Can I get a hell yeah?! *HELL YEAH!* Thank you xD. I'm trying to be an optimist about these things. I'm really, really expecting the fight to be rather awesome when it comes down to it. The reason being that in the past kishi's shown several times that he could, if he so chose, make Naruto do respectable things. So I'm going to say, for the epic events to come, there's about a 50/50 chance that he will. God help him if he doesn't...*cough* I mean, it would really suck if he didn't. As far as waiting for HxH, yeah, I'm actually waiting for it to be animated. If that happens, I'll be out of here with haste.

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Mon, 07-07-2008, 04:52 PM

What else is on/out right now that you can be so picky about your viewing? Must be nice to have all these choices, all I know is, I like the show, love the manga, and it kills roughly an hour of my time each week. And all the time people spend bitchin' about it, it must take that much more time out of your week to do so. So all in all, if you hate it THAT much, dont waste your time looking, dont waste your time posting. Deal or move on.

Don't get me wrong, opinions are fine, and even guesses as to what might happen, but this forum for Manga has become the biggest bitch thread there is. Seriously, Naruto is a good show, it may not be the way that YOU would write it, but Kishi is writing it and yeah he may not have the best writing sometimes, but I still read it and deal. Maybe you could do the same.

Now back on topic and enough with this "Naruto the Series sucks now" bullshit.

Chapter 407 - Didnt think that much happened actually. Nice that the "9" was something different. I must have read that a few times and missed that, awell, that is what I get for not knowing Japanese. Did anyone who knows Japanese catch that the first time?

Death13a

Mon, 07-07-2008, 05:26 PM

Death BOO Z

Mon, 07-07-2008, 05:30 PM

Bitchin' about the story is half the enjoyment, the more we complain, the more we read.
nobody says "I'll stop reading this manga' and means it, it's just a term of speech, it's like quitting the internet - not a valid option.

Payne vs Naruto:

I seriously can't see this one happening.
Naruto will need to deal six bodies the killing blow at the same time. considering he can't deliver a single blow to one enemy... this is gonna require some shonen-jump magic.
or he'll need to sneak into Payne hq and take out the main body, which means he'll need to kill both Payne and Qunan. (was qunan the third teammate of negato and yahiko?)
not anytime soon.

Payne seriously outmatches Naruto. it's not a matter of skill or startegy anymore.
Payne fights in higher leauges than Naruto, fighting him will require more than massing our shadow clones and some rasengans. the guy has frickin' summons that grow more heads (!). Naruto can't match the intensity of the fight, unless he picked up better summoning skills than Jiraya and can flood the river with frogs and send out 100s of frogs in the same time.
I could see Naruto getting a lucky shot on Kuzako, I can even see other villians taking a cheap shot and going down. but not Payne. that's not his style.

also, stop jumping the HxH bandwagon. what caused this sudden realization?

FullMetalAlchemist

Mon, 07-07-2008, 06:01 PM

You know what i was thinking would be kinda cool, when he invades konoha and lets say they kill almost all the bodies, but then at the last minute without anyone realizing it he revives the one konoha has atm and kills tsunade or someone, that would be pretty cool in my opinion.

Naruto needs something besides a rasengan to fight pain otherwise i don't think he can win. especially since a regular rasengan won't work and he can't use multiple wind rasengans without indangering himself. Since jiraya kept bringing up the 4th whenever mentioning naruto maybe he will learn something new that his father left behind. would be nice to see something new instead of bunshin/ diffrent types of rasengans. He doesn't even use any toad summons to aid him like he should :(

Death BOO Z

Mon, 07-07-2008, 06:11 PM

Naruto needs to drop out of Konoha already.

there's nobody left there to teach him anything, and he just puts them in danger.
he should join some other fraction, even side with some other villian (kabutoro?) and gain some forbidden power-ups.
heck, if he can somehow manage to split Akatsuki (sharingan idiots this side, all the rest the other side) it would be great.
maybe turn payne back to a good person and train under him, unlikely as it seems.

Naruto needs a trainer, and someone with ability to exsesive damage. the leaf doesn't have anyone like this for now.

XanBcoo

Mon, 07-07-2008, 06:28 PM

I got a question? Why did Jiraya needed to code the massage if it was urgent? The only reason usually you need to encode a massage if there someone on route and/or receiving end you don't trust. If Pain so Jiraya scribing something, he would kill him faster. So there was no reason to code massage at site. Shipping was secure as well so there was no reason to code massage for that. So there one thing left is village and Jiraya wanted Naruto and i believe Jiraya gave book to Kakashi before leaving. I wonder who defiantly wasn't suppose to be at site when massage was reviled?
I was wondering that too until I reread the fight. Just after Jiraiya dies, one of Pain's bodies sees the code. Here's the page: http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-383/page003.html

Basically Jiraiya doesn't want Pain to know that Konoha knows his secret. Also several pages later Pain admits that he might not have won if Jiraiya had figured it out.

What else is on/out right now that you can be so picky about your viewing? Must be nice to have all these choices, all I know is, I like the show, love the manga, and it kills roughly an hour of my time each week. And all the time people spend bitchin' about it, it must take that much more time out of your week to do so. So all in all, if you hate it THAT much, dont waste your time looking, dont waste your time posting. Deal or move on.
I'm reading this for closure, now that I'm caught up with the story. It takes 10 minutes every week to read the new chapter. The fact that more than half the people reading the manga admit that the plot is far beyond ridiculous doesn't mean they're being picky, it means the manga is actually that ridiculous. What makes you think it's free from criticism?

Archangel

Mon, 07-07-2008, 08:18 PM

What naruto needs are some new wind jutsus to improve his arsenal. Just think how the smallest of techniques can be deadly when used in a 100 v 1 situation that naruto can easily achieve with his clones. Besides that, some kickass jutsu that spend a shitload of chakra and don't require that many hand seals

More than anything i want to see more variety in naruto's fights, another shadow clone + rasengan combo and i'm gonna hang myself

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 07-07-2008, 09:15 PM

also, stop jumping the HxH bandwagon. what caused this sudden realization?

This probably isn't a sudden realization. Many of us, myself included have been following HxH for years, and the parallels between that series and this one are uncanny. But HxH doesn't fail.

Naruto needs to drop out of Konoha already.

there's nobody left there to teach him anything, and he just puts them in danger.
he should join some other fraction, even side with some other villian (kabutoro?) and gain some forbidden power-ups....Naruto needs a trainer, and someone with ability to exsesive damage. the leaf doesn't have anyone like this for now.

Actually people have already mentioned this, and I'm inclined to agree, Naruto's going to train under that old frog that trained Jiraiya. That frog probably satisfies every criterion for a trainer you mentioned, and the training will probably take him away from konoha. Probably not for long though, what with kakashi's cheese-o-rama training method for naruto. Hyperbolic time chamber baby! (yeah I said it).

What else is on/out right now that you can be so picky about your viewing? Must be nice to have all these choices, all I know is, I like the show, love the manga, and it kills roughly an hour of my time each week. And all the time people spend bitchin' about it, it must take that much more time out of your week to do so. So all in all, if you hate it THAT much, dont waste your time looking, dont waste your time posting. Deal or move on.

Don't get me wrong, opinions are fine, and even guesses as to what might happen, but this forum for Manga has become the biggest bitch thread there is. Seriously, Naruto is a good show, it may not be the way that YOU would write it, but Kishi is writing it and yeah he may not have the best writing sometimes, but I still read it and deal. Maybe you could do the same.

Nah.

joker-kun

Mon, 07-07-2008, 10:17 PM

I was wondering that too until I reread the fight. Just after Jiraiya dies, one of Pain's bodies sees the code. Here's the page: http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-383/page003.html

Basically Jiraiya doesn't want Pain to know that Konoha knows his secret. Also several pages later Pain admits that he might not have won if Jiraiya had figured it out.

Yeah. For whatever reason knowing that the real one isn't with them might somehow allow someone to win against him. I am guessing it's because Nagato has to be in a somewhat close proximity to the bodies to control them (otherwise it really doesn't change much as they still cannot kill him; I guess it just saves whoever is fighting them (Pein) time of trying to kill the six different Peins).

As for what Nagato's bloodline actually does I personally think we already know - basically gives you control over bodies somehow and gives you the abilities and POV of each body. That's the obvious one and... well Kishi seems to like the obvious.

As for the chapter - yes it was pretty lame and so was the code, but in all honesty it's not like Jiraiya would make some unbreakable code. He hid it's meaning from Pein and gave an answer to Konoha based on something that his student would be able to pick up quickly. Jiraiya also grew up in Konoha so he probably knows somewhat what they look for when breaking codes, so it really isn't that ludacris. I think what made it stupid was how big of a deal the manga was making the code. Kishi was making us expect something too complicated... kind of like he made us expect Itachi was godlike (something else that turned out pretty lame).

Archangel

Mon, 07-07-2008, 10:30 PM

kind of like he made us expect Itachi was godlike (something else that turned out pretty lame).

Itachi kicked Kakashi's ass with one move the first time they fought and kicked Sasuke's ass while suffering from some unknown deasease and holding back so as not to kill him... How the fuck could he be more Godlike than he already is/was ?

In fact it kind of pisses me off that we never got to see Itachi fighting at 100% against an actual "enemy"

joker-kun

Mon, 07-07-2008, 10:59 PM

Itachi kicked Kakashi's ass with one move the first time they fought and kicked Sasuke's ass while suffering from some unknown deasease and holding back so as not to kill him... How the fuck could he be more Godlike than he already is/was ?

In fact it kind of pisses me off that we never got to see Itachi fighting at 100% against an actual "enemy"
Exacly. He kicked Kakashi's ass with one move, and then he was dying from some (unknown) disease and letting his emo brother kill him because he apparently isn't strong enough to kill Madara himself. Itachi was the be all and end all at the beginning of Naruto. Then he handed the torch to Sasuke - 'nuff said.

Itachi turned into a disappointment ("it kinds of pisses me off that we never got to see Itachi fight at 100%" - what you said) and this probably will to. Why? Because Kishi likes raising expectations until he gets a hard on for a new sublot and ends the old one with shit.

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 07-07-2008, 11:09 PM

As for the chapter - yes it was pretty lame and so was the code, but in all honesty it's not like Jiraiya would make some unbreakable code. He hid it's meaning from Pein and gave an answer to Konoha based on something that his student would be able to pick up quickly. Jiraiya also grew up in Konoha so he probably knows somewhat what they look for when breaking codes, so it really isn't that ludacris. I think what made it stupid was how big of a deal the manga was making the code. Kishi was making us expect something too complicated... kind of like he made us expect Itachi was godlike (something else that turned out pretty lame).

What made the code unbelievably stupid, wasn't it's simplicity, but it's impossibility. Jiraiya wrote novels, and the code deals with one of them. I'm taking a look at the novels on my bookshelf and they range from 350 to 700 pages depending on page and font sizes. Now...How in the hell does this guy remember the first word, of some random lines on some random page. Here's what would have to be going through his head, mind you, as he willed himself back to life, and with pain on his ass to make sure he doesn't get that message written:

"On page 34, I had 'The" witten. On page 156, I had 'real' as the first word of the first line. On page 97, I had 'one' as the first word of the first line. On page..."

No. Just no. No excuse for this.

In fact it kind of pisses me off that we never got to see Itachi fighting at 100% against an actual "enemy"

I kind of like it that way. Adds some realism to the series. Not everyone gets a chance to go all out. Not to mention, We've seen everything in Itachi's arsenal I'm thinking. Him whooping ass would have to do with the rest of the less flashy ninja stuff: timing, execution and deception.

XanBcoo

Tue, 07-08-2008, 12:43 AM

It would have been hilarious if Jiraiya's memory failed him in those dying moments and the code he left was completely unintelligible.

Like, "Should seventeen member truly always breasts"

Naruto: "What does that mean...?"

kAi

Tue, 07-08-2008, 05:44 AM

Jiraiya is still alive. He faked his death to investigate Pain and take him out instead of Naruto, he is the real chosen one. The coded message was lucky it made sense, the numbers meant how many girls he had been with in different countries.

ForteCross

Tue, 07-08-2008, 07:03 AM

the number meant they breast size... then again we had, 7? and 9... doesnt workt i think....

Archangel

Tue, 07-08-2008, 09:47 AM

Jiraiya is still alive. He faked his death to investigate Pain and take him out instead of Naruto, he is the real chosen one.

In that case he should give up being a ninja and do some acting because that was a oscar winning performance.

Uchiha Barles

Tue, 07-08-2008, 01:52 PM

Yeah I know it's way past time for all the feeling for Jiraiya and what not, but that was one of the most miserable deaths in all of anime/manga. :(

Archangel

Tue, 07-08-2008, 02:13 PM

Jiraya's death? Miserable??

It was fucking awesome dude, real yet unbelievably cool. He died following his way of the ninja, what better death can a shinobi ask for?

XanBcoo

Tue, 07-08-2008, 06:29 PM

He died following his way of the ninja, what better death can a shinobi ask for?
Death by suffocation:

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9442/suffocationnojutsuma4.jpg

Konohamaru!

Wed, 07-09-2008, 12:01 AM

Hi guys, I've been reading and visiting Gotwoot for years now, figured it was time I spoke up on a thought. As for this mysterious new person coming along with Pain... I think that's actually Nagato himself. He wasn't very manly looking as a kid, so I doubt he'd be any other way more grown up... He came out of the shadows, suggesting he was in hiding anyway, and the fact that he doesn't say anything actually makes him seem the leader if they are infact puppets like we believe... Him coming along would also support the "He needs to be close by theories"... Just a thought. Seems somewhat logical based on the facts though... What ya think?

ps. thanks for the image Xan!

XanBcoo

Wed, 07-09-2008, 01:18 AM

That's a very interesting theory, Konohamaru!!

(The extra exclamation mark was the punctuation for that statement.)

My only problems with that theory are that Nagato had dark hair, and while all of the bodies thus far have had orange hair, I think that may just be a quality of the "puppets" Nagato uses once they're under his control. That's just intuition though. I also think it would be weird for him to have been using a 6th body and then all of a sudden put himself in the open once it had gone, instead of finding a new one.

Welcome to the forums though, and you're welcome for the avatar.

Abdula

Wed, 07-09-2008, 10:25 AM

Yeah Konohamaru! that's an interesting theory but I completely disagree with it. We have to do something about the name though because I'll confuse you with Konohamaru, who also posts in the Manga Discussion threads although he hasn't been here for a while.

Uchiha Barles

Wed, 07-09-2008, 02:28 PM

If it wasn't for the hair, I'd so agree with it. Hair in anime is usually as good an identifier of a character as DNA is an identifier of real people. And they did make the appearance of this "new body" rather dramatic, but if it had been Nagato himself, I believe that's the body that'd have been doing the talking, or, it would've at least had a line. It's a better theory than what I came up with though, I thought the body was Deidara's, with a new haido. In keeping with the hair/DNA analogy, that's like changing Gary Coleman to Arnold Schwartzenegger, and calling him Gary.

Welcome to you and your theories Konohamaru!-kun.

Abdula

Wed, 07-09-2008, 02:34 PM

I think the dramatic presentation of the new body was just to show that Pain had a new body so his fight with Jiraiya didn't weaken him in anyway. As a matter a fact it seems Jiraiya sacrificed his life just for Konoha to find out "the real one isn't there"

12345p

Wed, 07-09-2008, 05:53 PM

If I had to guess, right now I say that the 'real one' is Konan.

Konohamaru!

Wed, 07-09-2008, 08:56 PM

We have to do something about the name though because I'll confuse you with Konohamaru, who also posts in the Manga Discussion threads although he hasn't been here for a while.

Hehe, I appologize to Konohamaru. This is also my handle on both Narutofan and Bleachportal, so I decided to just keep it simple... :)

Back to Naruto though. I thought the same thing as you guys at first regarding the hair color. The only things that made me possibly think otherwise were that in both images they were already dark/low light. In the first there was a shadow, and its hard to add shadow on dark hair, in the second the background behind him is completely dark, and again hard to differentiate hair color there, although comparing it to the other 5 standing next to him, his seems the darkest of them all. That and I do think its a guy despite the girly looks, and we know Nagato isn't all that manly... I wouldn't argue that it's for sure him, but it's the best guess I can come up with atm...