Naruto Chapter 404

[deadlydreamx]

Naruto 404 (http://mangashare.com/dl/Naruto_404/2145/)

[unandpw]

[delete] I was beat by a minute.


Online viewing:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/

[Idealistic]

Hmmm... What country is Mizukage?

I guess in the end Sasuke really did get manipulated like a poor helpless underage girl at a club looking for things.

[Death BOO Z]

wait a minute.. they tell Sai and Sakura what happened before they inform Naruto? do they even know Jiraya? (would be cool if Naruto also learnt to fight hermit-mode, though)

So Tobi is now Madara AND Mizukage (not mentionning obito)? how does it make any sense? and didn't Kisama and the rest of the seven samurais get kicked out the village after trying to take over the throne?
unless after being kicked out he created the rain (?) village and they got kicked out of his own place.
this chapter also felt that Zetsu is higher up than madare, or at least the conversation gave me that impression.

[Rikudo]

Wow, that was some good shit. Sort of predictable but good shit nonetheless. Konoha's fuck!

DBZ, I also got the impression that Zetsu is above Madara. And the way Madara phrase it, it seems like Itachi was indeed capable of going toe-to-toe with him.

Mizu = Water Country.

Dont fucking triple post.
Assassin

[Assertn]

Isn't the mizukage hattori hanzo?

[Buffalobiian]

Mizu = Water Country.

Mizu=Water

[Carnage]

I get the feeling Kishi is doing this just to make another reference to Zabuza.....(he tried to assassinate the Mizukage).

I don't think Zetsu is above Madara, since he pretty much seems to be his scout. But they could be equals.

[RyougaZell]

Isn't the mizukage hattori hanzo?

Wasn't Hanzo from Rain rather from Water?

[Uchiha Barles]

Man, the first had a number of demons under his control, and like, what, distributed them like trinkets and baubles all over the five countries in the name of peace? When the hell did these demons become ninja play things? wtf?

This has the side effect of making the fourth look less legendary. I mean, the first took out madara, who apparently was using the nine tails during their fight, and had a number of demons under his control, and the fourth dies in battle against it? Whatever. A can of crap has been opened and it's going to take a lot of toilet paper to fix this.

[tnynyn]

Looks like itachi was as strong as madara since madara claims itachi was giving him troubles??

Also, I think the frog sage will start training naruto...

Good chapter btw, story is about to pick up the pace again.

[Abdula]

Wasn't Hanzo from Rain rather from Water?
Yeah Hanzo was the leader of the Hidden Rain village and Mizukage is the leader of the Hidden Mist.

This chapter was kinda boring and really short but there are a few developments. Most interesting is that it seems both the leaders of the Hidden Rain and the Hidden Mist are Akatsuki members.

This has the side effect of making the fourth look less legendary. I mean, the first took out madara, who apparently was using the nine tails during their fight, and had a number of demons under his control, and the fourth dies in battle against it?

Uh, the first had a freaking hax, Kekkai Genkai that let him control Bijuu, and what exactly did Minato have? Anyway atleast we now know why no one could compare to the Senju clan not even the Uchiha. The mere fact that they controlled all the Bijuu makes them invincible and thanks to the above mentioned hax even if someone could gain control of a bijuu the first had the ability to suppress that bijuu's chakra.

Anyway, this whole story is getting way too convoluted and its making less and less sense by the chapter.

[animus]

Without said controlling abilities I don't think the First or Madara would do to hot in a 1v1 fight against Kyuubi to be honest.

It was also stated that the Fourth Hokage was the strongest ninja Konoha ever produced, didn't it? Which means the Fourth > the First?

[Uberbaka]

Although technically the first produced the village and not the other way around =P

[michelous]

hopefully naruto will get the news of his dad as the 4th

[Carnage]

This has the side effect of making the fourth look less legendary. I mean, the first took out madara, who apparently was using the nine tails during their fight, and had a number of demons under his control, and the fourth dies in battle against it? Whatever. A can of crap has been opened and it's going to take a lot of toilet paper to fix this.

I agree, this is crap. But to be fair, it cost the 4th his life to seal the kyuubi. Perhaps so that Madara wouldn't be able to use it again? Or something?

[Death BOO Z]

well, using your own life to seal the kyuubi seemed like exploting a glitch, a loophole inside the system that allows a lesser being like a human to chain himself to the demon and bring them both to doom.

now it seems that the 1st just kicked Madare's ass, beat the kyuubi and made him fear of ever returning (maybe he was so afraid that Madare's spellls were needed to summon him to attack 16 years ago?) , and to beat a few other demons.

which makes the 1st seem like an uber pimp, and the 4th look like a wimp.

and when was the name of hanzo (mizukage) ever mentioned?

[Splash!]

I don't think the name of the Mizukage was ever mentioned. Hanzo was the salamander ninja from the Village Hidden in the Rain that fought against the sannin when they were still young. Pein was the one who defeated Hanzo.

[Idealistic]

Man, next thing we know, Tobi, who is also Madara, who happens to be the Mizukage, will also be one of the seven swordsman.

Now we need to know if Madara is REALLY Madara, and if he is, why did he decide to become the Mizukage?

[Abdula]

Uh, Madara is Madara and of the five strongest villages, the ones that have kages, the mist is supposed to be second only to the leaf, if that is the case it would be obvious why Madara would be the Mizukage. It should also be obvious why he wants a village of his own.

[DB_Hunter]

So... shouldn't there be more Uchiha's around in the Mist village if Madara has been busy with Mrs Madara?

[poopdeville]

Uh, Madara is Madara and of the five strongest villages, the ones that have kages, the mist is supposed to be second only to the leaf, if that is the case it would be obvious why Madara would be the Mizukage. It should also be obvious why he wants a village of his own.

So why wasn't it obvious to Kisame that Tobi was the Mizukage? Kisame knows at least some stuff about the Sharingan, like that nobody in the world has it except his Kage, Itachi, Sasuke, and Kakashi.

Or do you think Madara (as the Mizukage) kept his Sharingan hidden? I suppose that could be why he uses the "one eye" mask as Tobi -- maybe he used the other eye as the Mizukage.

Kisame has always been my favorite Akatsuki, but now he's even more interesting. He joined Akatsuki of his own will, according to Madara. But he didn't know that he was working for the Mizukage all along. (Mind you, he's a Missing-nin from the Village of Mist.) Is the Mizu-Root? Mizu-Anbu? You know, was he on a mission to join Akatsuki for Mist?


This has the side effect of making the fourth look less legendary. I mean, the first took out madara, who apparently was using the nine tails during their fight, and had a number of demons under his control, and the fourth dies in battle against it?

I guess. I don't have much of a problem with the idea that a guy who becomes legendary because of his teleportation and assassination abilities gets killed by a giant chakra monster teleportation or assassination won't work on.

It's not like the First or Madara controlled the Kyuubi through the sheer power of their will. They didn't even use techniques -- they used their genetics.

[animus]

Was it the Mizukage that Zabuza planned his coup d'etat against way back but failed miserably?

[poopdeville]

Yes, it was.

[Assertn]

Which makes it all the more amusing that Suigetsu is there waving around the sword that Zabuza attempted to use against him.

[Death BOO Z]

weren't they all (Zabuza, Kisame and the rest of the fillermade swordsmen) in the revoultion shit together?
I assumed that since two of them have become missing nins, it was due to the same crime - trying to kill thier leader.

I'm afraid that Kisame might turn to the good side.

[Abdula]

I'm with DBZ, I was under the impression that it was all the hidden mist swordsmen who were involved in the attempted coup and what they tried to do was assassinate the feudal lord, not the Mizukage, and that was how the group broke up. I'm guessing it was something similar to the current filler arc in the anime.

[poopdeville]

I guess that's a fair assumption, but I assumed the opposite. Specifically because of the way Kisame spoke to Kakashi in Konoha. He said something along the lines of "I heard you killed that Zabuza kid", like he didn't know him except by reputation.

[Abdula]

Dude they were all in the group together, it was seven of them, how could he not know him and what I think he was doing there is more or less telling Kakashi that he acknowledges his strength and wants to fight him, more or less.

[poopdeville]

Who said they were in a group together? All I know is that they were seven famous swordsmen.

For instance, the Kages are a group, and the Fourth probably never met the First or the Second. They never fought together. Gaara never met the Third. But they are part of an important group.

It might just be fame that brings the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist together.

[Abdula]

You know I actually thought that you had a point you were going to make, then you come with this. Anyway you could be right except for the simple fact that the manga says you're wrong. It was a group, a group of seven exceptional shinobi who were given the swords. Suigetsu himself even says that the swords are passed from one generation to the next and him being Zabuza's apprentice was supposed to be the next one to receive his sword. Anyway the group broke up and the ninjas left with their swords, which I think is why another group of Mist Swordsmen can't be formed. Anyway Suigetsu told Sasuke that his goal was to collect the swords.

[toonice714]

i think its stupid that now that we've finished with sasuke and itachi that we wouldn't have to see them for awhile. Now you're telling me there is going to be more sasuke and other sharingan crap. im sick of the sharingan. It is by far the most BORING technique in all of the series. Im actually sick of all ninja with bloodline techniques that just tower over everyone else. After reading the past couple chapters im super depressed that ninja like jiraya and asuma are dead. I pray they dont make orochimaru come back as the 8 tailed beast that sasuke's team is recovering. I want a main ninja villian that is just extremely smart and skilled in a myriad of ninjutsu. i dont wanna see anymore staring contests. Bring on some ninja that are high level that just have great techniques due to research in their area of expertise. Like a master ninja that can utilize many elements and each element has like 7 techniques and their used in a way that people are forced to think to win versus staring at it then it becomes useless. Im sorta glad that all naruto does is like 3moves now. It just feels like more of a slap in the face to all these other losers who use all these stupid eye techniques.

[Archangel]

K so i finally get to post here.

- I'm not sure if i like the idea of Itachi being a good guy

- Holy shit Jiraya died!!! But that was one hell of a cool way to die

- So is orochimaru gone for good now?

- Is Sasuke ever gonna stop doing evil shit?

- Asuma dies... but i don't really care

- Shikamaru gets cool points for owning an immortal akatsuki all by himself

- Akatsuki is going for world domination... how original

- The Tobi thing is still messing my head up

I can't really remember anything else right now, i wish i could have posted these while i read it but fear of spoilers got to me. Well i'm looking forward to posting around here, you all seem to have your own interesting thoughts on just how the hell this is heading and i can't wait to read about them.

[Abdula]

Anyway ignoring the guy above me, anyone have any idea why Hashirama did all of this because it doesn't make any sense to me. The guy had a seemingly unbeatable Kekkai Genkai, he was the leader of the strongest clan of ninjas there was and thus had a monopoly on war and he had the bijuu as pets. As far as I see it he was on top of the world, now why would he give all that up for seemingly no reason.

[Archangel]

Different forums, same Abdula

So i'm wondering if we'll be seeing more Akatsuki action or some more training from Naruto. Pain and his gf are supposed to go after him but if he can't use his wind rasengan won't he need to come up with some other technique? Or will he be an idiot and use the wind rasengan anyway?

[Assertn]

Guys, only Zabuza was involved in the coup. This has nothing to do with the other members of the 7 swordsmen.

Keep in mind, the whole reason Zabuza was working for that one mob guy was to raise enough money to attempt another assassination. Why wouldn't the other swordsmen help him with this if their goals were the same?

Also, just because Zabuza and Kisame are missing nins that happened to be among the 7, doesn't mean that the remaining 5 were as well.

[joker-kun]

Anyway ignoring the guy above me, anyone have any idea why Hashirama did all of this because it doesn't make any sense to me. The guy had a seemingly unbeatable Kekkai Genkai, he was the leader of the strongest clan of ninjas there was and thus had a monopoly on war and he had the bijuu as pets. As far as I see it he was on top of the world, now why would he give all that up for seemingly no reason.

Plot no jutsu.

Typical Naruto. Half of it doesn't make sense. It seems Kishimoto has a habit of making characters seem godlike only to have them struck down with little to no explanation. I would still like to know why Madara is still even alive. "Oh everyone thought I was dead. Even the first who was the one who apparently killed me, but eh, I wasn't and here I am 100 years later". Just like first the bijuu's were chakra that built up from hate and such, and when Jiraiya mentioned to the frog that Kyuubi might have been summoned by Madara the frog flipped out saying it was impossible. Now we hear that the first had them as pets. I guess nobody knew? Except Madara of course, oh and Kishi. Some consistency in this manga would really go a long way. Kishi is failing IMO.

[michelous]

well, using your own life to seal the kyuubi seemed like exploting a glitch, a loophole inside the system that allows a lesser being like a human to chain himself to the demon and bring them both to doom.

now it seems that the 1st just kicked Madare's ass, beat the kyuubi and made him fear of ever returning (maybe he was so afraid that Madare's spellls were needed to summon him to attack 16 years ago?) , and to beat a few other demons.

which makes the 1st seem like an uber pimp, and the 4th look like a wimp.

and when was the name of hanzo (mizukage) ever mentioned?

really the 4th hasn't been shown that much
think of sealing the tailed-beasts as kinda a nuclear disarmament type thing so sealing the tailed beasts was to make peace with the other villages

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

K so i finally get to post here.

- I'm not sure if i like the idea of Itachi being a good guy

- Holy shit Jiraya died!!! But that was one hell of a cool way to die

- So is orochimaru gone for good now?

- Is Sasuke ever gonna stop doing evil shit?

- Asuma dies... but i don't really care

- Shikamaru gets cool points for owning an immortal akatsuki all by himself

- Akatsuki is going for world domination... how original

- The Tobi thing is still messing my head up

I can't really remember anything else right now, i wish i could have posted these while i read it but fear of spoilers got to me. Well i'm looking forward to posting around here, you all seem to have your own interesting thoughts on just how the hell this is heading and i can't wait to read about them.

1.You will have to deal with it in your own way...

2. Jiraya did die. It was was an ok death....

3. The Curse mark is off of Sasuke, but he is still in Kabuto.

4. Sasuke isnt evil, he is just dumb.

5. Asuma was a cool character..

6. Shika didnt really kill him, but did have a great plan against him.

7. Akatsuki was all about world domination, but kinda not I guess

8. Tobi is still a mystery.

[XanBcoo]

Similar to Archangel, this will be my first post in this subforum. I just spent all of last night reading basically all of the remaining manga chapters (having not seen Shippuden since Gaara was captured).

Everything was pretty good up until the most recent plot twist. A large majority of the "twists" have been Kishimoto making shit up as he goes along, and retconning the rest. Good read though. I'm glad I finally caught up.


I would still like to know why Madara is still even alive. "Oh everyone thought I was dead. Even the first who was the one who apparently killed me, but eh, I wasn't and here I am 100 years later".
Yeah, I really think there's more to Madara going on than we're led to assume. That whole scene with him and Sasuke in the cave bordered on ridiculous, in my opinion.

Thinking about Madara: Why have we only seen his right Sharingan eye? Why does he now have 3 identities? I'm also taking everything he's said in the past few chapters with a grain of salt. He's obviously quite manipulative, and might say anything to anyone. Could his final plan that he mentions to Zetsu be the same one we're supposed to think it is?

Not that I'm genuinely interested in the outcome. It's more that I think it's totally within possibility that Kishimoto will try and pull out a few more shockers before this is through.

[Abdula]

Hey welcome. I noticed you lurking in here the past few days and I was wondering what was up. Its kinda strange having you here but its a good thing. So are you reading anything other than Naruto at the moment?

[XanBcoo]

I heard Inuyasha just finished. Now that I've broken my vow of "not reading that stupid shit anymore" I might as well have a look at that too.

Just kidding. I'm not that bored.

Also:

Uh, the first had a freaking hax, Kekkai Genkai that let him control Bijuu
Maybe it's because I read about 110 chapters in one night, but where was this stated? The version I read just said that he could control them. Or were you referring to Madara (who I think was lying about his innocence in the Kyuubi attack on Konoha), using the perfect Mangekyou?

[FullMetalAlchemist]

I heard Inuyasha just finished. Now that I've broken my vow of "not reading that stupid shit anymore" I might as well have a look at that too.

Just kidding. I'm not that bored.

Also:

Maybe it's because I read about 110 chapters in one night, but where was this stated? The version I read just said that he could control them. Or were you referring to Madara (who I think was lying about his innocence in the Kyuubi attack on Konoha), using the perfect Mangekyou?


Sharingan users have some control over kyubbi, either supressing him as sasuke did or controlling him as madara did. im guessing MS allows u to control him completely while just sharingan can supress. I'm just going on a limb there. I didn't touch up on this before but with sasukes MS looking the way it did, im gonna go with every person who can gain MS will have a diffrent one like kakashi having a diffren't one compared to itachi. Who knows what madara and sasuke have at this point. Technically if you wanna go the route where how sasuke got MS without killing his best friend, his brother was his best friend at one point :).

[poopdeville]

Anyway you could be right except for the simple fact that the manga says you're wrong. It was a group, a group of seven exceptional shinobi who were given the swords. Suigetsu himself even says that the swords are passed from one generation to the next and him being Zabuza's apprentice was supposed to be the next one to receive his sword.

So? None of this implies that they worked together... ever. None of this means they ever met each other. All it means is that they were famous, and were famous enough to take on pupils.

But since you said the manga said I was wrong, you should FIND where it said I was wrong. Because I looked, and all Suigetsu said is that the swords are passed down from generation to generation, and that Zabuza was his sensei.

So feel free to show me where it says Kisame tried to kill the Mizukage. Until then, I think you're making assumptions (which is fair enough, since the whole story isn't known yet). But you shouldn't throw stones in a glass house.

[Archangel]

I didn't touch up on this before but with sasukes MS looking the way it did, im gonna go with every person who can gain MS will have a diffrent one like kakashi having a diffren't one compared to itachi.

Not just different looks but different abilities as well i guess. And the ultimate naruto hack comes to play once again, I'm guessing he has all of Itachi's abilities plus some new ones of his own that will show up when Kishimoto needs to save himself out of a jam he himself created after all this twists in the plot. I just wish we got more info on the sharingan i'm sick of the dam thing being able to do anything to anyone at any time.


The version I read just said that he could control them. Or were you referring to Madara (who I think was lying about his innocence in the Kyuubi attack on Konoha), using the perfect Mangekyou?

i think Abdula is referring to the time when Madara controlled the kyuubi to fight with him against the first hokage. Now the question is if all mangekiou sharingan can control the kyuubi or was it just his. Also, can all bijuus be controlled like this or just the kyuubi?

[Death BOO Z]

there's potential for quite a stupidity here...
the sharingan can control kyuubi (strongest of the beasts) but not nescerly the rest of them, it's explained by the fact that both the kyuubi and the sharingan origin in the fire country, but then we learn that the 1st divided all the demons between the lands to end the ninja wars.
and it just happens to be that Naruto's only means to equal to Sasuke is his greatest weakness against him, perfect, more sharingan shananigans.

I don't see any reason why the other demons couldn't be controled, the fact the jicurichii (I couldn't spell it then, why should i be able to spell it months after they wasted the acr?) exist in other contries as well is proof enough.

sure, it's possible that Kisame didn't know Zabuza, and that they became missing nins on completly diffrent terms, and that some of swordsman are still in the village. it's possible, but I don't find it likely. it's like saying that the dynamic duo never met, and that the sound four aren't nescerly working together, and that the seven dragons\seal (x1999) don't know each other.

[Abdula]

I heard Inuyasha just finished. Now that I've broken my vow of "not reading that stupid shit anymore" I might as well have a look at that too.

Just kidding. I'm not that bored.

Also:

Maybe it's because I read about 110 chapters in one night, but where was this stated? The version I read just said that he could control them. Or were you referring to Madara (who I think was lying about his innocence in the Kyuubi attack on Konoha), using the perfect Mangekyou?
If you value your sanity or you just don't want to waste your free time stay away from Inuyasha trust me. I'm referring to back when Yamato, Naruto, Sai and Sakura tried capturing Kabuto. When Oro showed up and figured out who Yamato was he said the reason he was trying to gain Mokuton was so that he could be able to control Bijuu like the first was able to.



So feel free to show me where it says Kisame tried to kill the Mizukage. Until then, I think you're making assumptions (which is fair enough, since the whole story isn't known yet). But you shouldn't throw stones in a glass house.

It was never said that Kisame tried to kill the Mizukage and I never said that Kisame tried to kill the Mizukage, you should read more carefully. Secondly they were a group, the anime even did a filler arc with Naruto and the gang hunting down Raiga, I think his name was, to try to get info on Kisame's whereabouts.

Now the question is if all mangekiou sharingan can control the kyuubi or was it just his. Also, can all bijuus be controlled like this or just the kyuubi?
It was stated back when Sasuke was fighting Itachi that MS gave the Uchihas the ability to control the Kyuubi and in exchange for that ability they go blind. So you can infer from that that anyone with MS could control the Kyuubi if they know how to use it, you can also infer that that only applies to the Kyuubi. I doubt its that simple though, it seems that you need exceptionally strong chakra like Sasuke and Madara have to be able to do it. I don't know what other benefits Madara's EMS gave him but the reason he got it was so that he could control the Kyuubi without going blind.

[Assertn]

there's potential for quite a stupidity here...
the sharingan can control kyuubi (strongest of the beasts) but not nescerly the rest of them, it's explained by the fact that both the kyuubi and the sharingan origin in the fire country, but then we learn that the 1st divided all the demons between the lands to end the ninja wars.
and it just happens to be that Naruto's only means to equal to Sasuke is his greatest weakness against him, perfect, more sharingan shananigans.

I don't see any reason why the other demons couldn't be controled, the fact the jicurichii (I couldn't spell it then, why should i be able to spell it months after they wasted the acr?) exist in other contries as well is proof enough.
Of course you shouldn't assume that ONLY the kyubi can be controlled. The kyubi is the strongest of them, it'd be ridiculous if the others were immune.

However, I didn't even think about this much....
Maybe that's why Madara wants to capture all the bijuu...so he can control the bijuu with his sharingan. By giving a bijuu to Sasuke, he's basically letting Sasuke control one of the bijuu with his sharingan...

Well whatever...there's always a different excuse for akatsuki's goals.


sure, it's possible that Kisame didn't know Zabuza, and that they became missing nins on completly diffrent terms, and that some of swordsman are still in the village. it's possible, but I don't find it likely. it's like saying that the dynamic duo never met, and that the sound four aren't nescerly working together, and that the seven dragons\seal (x1999) don't know each other.
We know that Kisame knows about Zabuza, because Kisame mentions Zabuza to Kakashi when they first met. By that point he had already known that Zabuza was defeated. Regardless, this neither proves nor disproves your point.

The Sound Four was working together because their goal as a team was to work together. Their skills were defense-based, which grew stronger with the combination of their efforts. There has been no indication of the seven swords of mist having this kind of relationship.

That's like saying that since Itachi was an ANBU when he defected, that all the other ANBUs should have defected as well. A completely baseless empirical assumption.

[Archangel]

Of course you shouldn't assume that ONLY the kyubi can be controlled. The kyubi is the strongest of them, it'd be ridiculous if the others were immune.

Well why not? The Itachi and Sasuke dialog specified that the kyuubi could be controlled but it didn't mention any of the other bijuus, if it was possible to control all of the tailed beasts then why wouldn't they just refer to it as the power to control the beasts instead of specifing just the nine tails? Indeed it is the strongest of them all but you can't tell me that just because of that the other ones aren't worth controlling.

It wouldn't be that strange if different bloodline limits gave control over different beasts would it?

[XanBcoo]

I think I liked the tailed beasts better when they were a force of nature, rather than just tools that are being reclaimed.

[Death BOO Z]

concerning the Zabuza and Kisama.I call then as I see them (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=080219)

both Kisama and Zabuza belong to the seven swordman group, and both are missing nins. why is it impossible to believe that the thing that got them expelled from the mist is the same?
I'm not saying that it's a fact, but it's something to consider.

say that there is a group of three ninjas, we'll call team 'traitor', and we get to see two of them, each in a seperate arc, being missing nins. wouldn't it be logical conclusion that they defected toghether?

[XanBcoo]

No, not at all. It would be a huge assumption, but not a logical conclusion. Your evidence of their working in a group is based on their collective (and unconfirmed) missing-nin status, which assumes that they operated as a group in the first place. It's circular.

Zabuza worked alone (and went missing) for his own goals. He tried to raise the money himself, as Assertn said, and looked for his own accomplices, as opposed to gathering the other 6 swordsmen.

There's 0 evidence proving that the 7 worked together at all. Even Suigetsu said the swords were passed down the generations, meaning the "Seven Swordsmen" might not have even existed in the same time period, similar to the different Kage of each village.

[toonice714]

I have been led to believe that to everyone who doesnt know him as uchiha madara his sharingan casts an auto genjutsu to give them familiarity. I think thats why amaterasu activated when sasuke saw his sharingan. Maybe to prevent him looking like a family member or someone he might automatically trust. I think thats why noone was ever like oh the uchiha race cant be extinct if there's an uchiha as mizukage or what have u.

[Assertn]

Well why not? The Itachi and Sasuke dialog specified that the kyuubi could be controlled but it didn't mention any of the other bijuus, if it was possible to control all of the tailed beasts then why wouldn't they just refer to it as the power to control the beasts instead of specifing just the nine tails? Indeed it is the strongest of them all but you can't tell me that just because of that the other ones aren't worth controlling.

It wouldn't be that strange if different bloodline limits gave control over different beasts would it?

What? That's ridiculous. You guys go on and on about how unexplainable the Uchiha clan's powers are, and then you prefer arbitrary relationships over observable ones. We've already seen firsthand just how Sasuke was able to control Manda, a giant monsterous creature that not even Oro could tame. We've known even since the Zabuza arc that one of the sharingan's abilities is hypnosis. If Kyubi could be controlled, couldn't it be suggested that its done with the same form of hypnosis, and that any creature that has a regular pair of eyes can be controlled the same way?

@Death Boo Z: I reiterate: A completely baseless empirical assumption.

[poopdeville]

It was never said that Kisame tried to kill the Mizukage and I never said that Kisame tried to kill the Mizukage, you should read more carefully. Secondly they were a group, the anime even did a filler arc with Naruto and the gang hunting down Raiga, I think his name was, to try to get info on Kisame's whereabouts.


Perhaps you didn't say Kisame tried to kill the Mizukage. But an argument whether Kisame and the rest of the Seven Swordsmen were involved in the attempted coup or not precipitated this discussion. Indeed, you said

"I was under the impression that it was all the hidden mist swordsmen who were involved in the attempted coup and what they tried to do was assassinate the feudal lord, not the Mizukage, and that was how the group broke up."

This is completely wrong, by the way. Zabuza attempted to kill the Mizukage, not the Feudal Lord. I guess I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/30/naruto_30_03/

I still have not seen any real, canonical evidence that supports the claim that the Seven Swordsmen were a squad, worked together, or even knew each other. Let alone were all involved in the coup.

In any case, the Raiga filler is not canon. Obviously.


both Kisama and Zabuza belong to the seven swordman group, and both are missing nins. why is it impossible to believe that the thing that got them expelled from the mist is the same?
I'm not saying that it's a fact, but it's something to consider.


Same as above. Despite my opinion being the opposite of yours on this matter, I agreed that neither were fact, just plausible theories. However, as I showed above, Zabuza left after trying to assassinate the Mizukage. This makes it unlikely that Kisame was involved in the coup.

[Abdula]

Yeah you are right Zabuza did attempt to kill the Mizukage but when Kisame was first introduced it was said one of the reasons he was a missing nin was because he had killed the fuedal lord. As of the seven swordsmen, I'll just let this be until we find out more about them. I was hoping we would get more info on them when Suigetsu was introduced but that didn't happen, so hopefully with Madara being Mizukage we'll finally get to visit the hidden mist village.

@ Assertn, If the Kyuubi could be controlled with the same form of hynosis that Sasuke used on Manda then there would be no reason for the Uchiha to develop a different form of the sharingan specifically for the purpose of controlling the Kyuubi. I'm not saying I don't think the other bijuu can be controlled. I'm just saying that based on that its reasonable to think that what is required to control the Kyuubi and what is required to control other creatures would be different but logically if you can control the most powerful bijuu you should be able to control the weaker ones.

I'm wondering what you guys think about Madara sending Hawk after the eight tails instead of the Kyuubi because all things considered just the fact that Sasuke already has MS and even before he acquired it, he could suppress the Kyuubi's chakra and make Naruto essentially helpless, not to mention his familiarity with Naruto and Konoha. I would think it would be easy for Hawk to just capture Naruto.

[Archangel]

I'm wondering what you guys think about Madara sending Hawk after the eight tails instead of the Kyuubi because all things considered just the fact that Sasuke already has MS and even before he acquired it, he could suppress the Kyuubi's chakra and make Naruto essentially helpless, not to mention his familiarity with Naruto and Konoha. I would think it would be easy for Hawk to just capture Naruto.

Well i'm guessing that he would want to have a firmer grip on Sasuke before sending him to konoha. You've seen pain's power, logically there would be no way in hell for naruto to defeat him ( yeah i know he will anyway ) so i guess for him it just makes more sense to send the rinnegan instead of the rasengan because he has better control over it.

Thta's just a guess anyway for all i know sasuke already set his mind to destroy konoha just how he set his mind to follow orochimaru.

[Abdula]

so i guess for him it just makes more sense to send the rinnegan instead of the rasengan because he has better control over it.

What is it your trying to say there. Do you mean send rinnegan instead of the sharingan. Anyway I've already considered that he wouldn't want to send Sasuke to Konoha or against Naruto because of how easily Sasuke is manipulated and that Naruto has been a major influence on Sasuke in the past.

However Sasuke already cut his ties with Naruto, and Hawk wouldn't even have to go to konoha because the reason Naruto and the others left the village in the first place was because they were trying to find Sasuke, so at the very least they could use Sasuke as bait to draw Naruto out because they know that no matter what he will come for Sasuke.

[Archangel]

It's just bad guy pride, they won't even come up with plans like that since they're so confident on their own strength. That's like saying why not send more than just 1 group to get the tailed beasts especially now that there are only 2 left, they're so full of themselves they won't even consider the possibility of failure.

[SilentSnake]

I think Sasuke knows he's being used, and is formulating a plan to get what he wants and betraying Madara at the very end.

(taken from closed thread).

Imo wishful thinking, but sounds tempting.

Srsly, Sasuke can't be THAT naive :eek:

I wonder if we see the fight between Sasuke vs 8 tails at all, but since there's not all that much story left I guess we will.

[poopdeville]

I wonder if we see the fight between Sasuke vs 8 tails at all, but since there's not all that much story left I guess we will.

We already saw Sasuke fight 8 Tails. He beat Orochimaru.

[Archangel]

K first we don't really know if orochimaru is the 8 tails and second orochimaru was greatly weakened when sasuke defeated him. But even if he was at 100% sasuke would still probably win specially now that he has the MS

[Rikudo]

We already saw Sasuke fight 8 Tails. He beat Orochimaru.
Orochimaru wasn't the 8 Tails. Madara asks Sasuke to capture the 8 Tails so he's just on his way to find it.

On the other hand, Madara and Co. is planning on capturing the Kyuubi. Poor Konoha only has one Sannin to defend them. Akatsuki can totally destroy Konoha if they attack now and with Sasuke they're even more deadlier. I wonder why they need to get all the bijuus before attaking Konoha.

[Archangel]

It's not all about power you have to realize that the ratio would be about 1:1000 meaning that a jounin wouldn't have to be all that powerful to beat an akatsuki member, all they would need would be a couple lucky shots. And konoha still has many capable fighters like Guy, Kakashi, Tsunade, ANBU, Root and many nameless jounins and chunins

[poopdeville]

Orochimaru wasn't the 8 Tails. Madara asks Sasuke to capture the 8 Tails so he's just on his way to find it.


Orochimaru wasn't 8 Tails, exactly. But he was a Jinchuuriki, and was driven mad by Orochi's chakra (like Gaara was before the time jump).

Anyway, Kabutorochi is still out there, and Sasuke is obviously going to find Orochi inside of him. This is why Kabuto is turning "snake-like", just like Naruto is fox-like and Orochimaru was snake-like, and Gaara was Tanuki-like. My best is that by the time Sasuke finds Kabuto, Kabuto will have become Orochimaru -- that is, Orochi will have possessed him completely.

I will admit this is all speculation. But I'm also right. :-)

[Archangel]

Orochimaru wasn't 8 Tails, exactly. But he was a Jinchuuriki, and was driven mad by Orochi's chakra (like Gaara was before the time jump).

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the case, by the look of things there isn't going to be one bad guy left when the show is over

Zabuza went good, Gaara went good, Haku and kimimaru we just being manipulated, Sasori dies on purpose, Itachi was a good guy... next thing u know the kyuubi is gonna be saving the leaf village

[chet_chetty]

I thought it was established that Orochimaru exists in Kabuto strictly on a biological level. It's Oro's genetic material that has taken over in Kabuto's body. Oro's soul and/or conciousness was purged from Sasuke and sealed by Susanoo for eternity. That's what I got out of it.

[Archangel]

I don't think it's that simple. Remember that kabuto said that he could feel oro's power trying to take over him, for that to happen oro's will would have to be around there somewhere.

[chet_chetty]

With all the experimentation Oro did, I could see him pulling something like that off. Oro more than anyone has had that live to fight another day mantra about him no matter what form he may take. Kabuto referred to it as a life force which is too ambiguous to pinpoint it as genetic or conscious/spirit.

[Archangel]

But it is kind of cool seeing kabuto trying to outbest oro like that, he has always been a great ninja and sadistic like hell i hope he wins in the battle of the minds, honestly i'm bored with oro

[XanBcoo]

I imagine it was all Orochimaru could do to oblige when Kabuto told him,

"I want you inside me"

Now we're left with the unholy product. And yeah, I think it's most likely that either Oro will manifest himself in Kabuto (kind of like a Liquid Snake/Ocelot thing) or he will actually be considered the 8 tailed beast that Sasuke has to hunt down.