Naruto Chapter 399

[Yukimura]

Released by Sleepy Fans on Mangahelpers (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30678)


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[michelous]

now the reason for itachi killing his family makes sense
i am betting obito was trying to start the coup

[DB_Hunter]

Dude, for the last time, give Obito a rest. I don't where his name came in to this. It's clear that this was a distrust that took generations to build up, but the entire clan wanted revenge. This was more of a political movement that went violent, not a one man show.

I'm calling here and now that Sasuke will fight Naruto for the title of Hokage from this point onwards.

[Uchiha Barles]

Oh man, this is brilliant. The last few chapters of this series have been absolutely brilliant. I don't know if this is me just being happy that something really good finally happening, or if my judgement is actually correct, but this part of the series seems to stand tall even amongst some of the better anime and manga out there. This chapter felt very long too, like a nice substantial chunk of story...wow.

[DB_Hunter]

It has gotten better. I think that's because the plot is now starting to revolve around more mature themes such as politics and power rather than the childish 'Naruto can make everyone love him theme' that has occupied much of the anime.

[Yukimura]

I'm thinking Sasuke (assuming he's going to get away from Madara) will usurp Oro's role and start trying to destroy Konoha in revenge leading to a Sasuke vs Naruto II.

Since this chapter fleshes out the Senju as a big provider of people for the original Konoha there must be several ninja in the village today who are descended from that clan besides just Tsunade. Sarutobi, Danzou, and Saru's pals seem like obvious members. This opens the door for some new (or maybe old) speculation though. The second had white spiky hair and so did Kakashi's father (from his name) and so does Kakashi. Might Kakashi actually be the great grandson of the Second?!? He has already been casually hinted at as a potential replacement for Tsunade and it would be an interesting development for his character since he'd be an embodiment of the joining of the two clans.

Of course, Madara would probably see it as Senju stealing more from the Uchiha but that would give an eventual Kakashi vs Madara battle even more meaning.

[Assertn]

I love that "everything you believed to be right is a lie" thing they did. It's kinda like in DBZ...when you find out after watching all of DB that Goku was actually sent to earth to destroy it all along. This brings it back to the first arc, where the line between good and evil was blurred and battles were merely between ninjas of conflicting interests.

Edit:
Rereading the chapter....I thought of something else....
Itachi became a spy under someone's orders, and likely killed the clan on someone's orders. Obviously, the 3rd would not have had a part of it...I wonder if Itachi was a member of roots?

[vejita613]

Im kind of confused about something. Did madara say that he helped itachi kill off the clan? If so, then why do it even if the clan was about to do pretty much what he was going to do X amount of years before?

[Yukimura]

That could very well have been misinformation on Itachi's part in an attempt to get Sasuke to distrust Madara.

I'm thinking Itachi tried to put blame on Madara since he was still loyal to Konoha, even after joining Akatsuki, and he wanted to make sure Sasuke didn't take Madara's side and oppose Konoha for the sake of revenge.

Sheesh, 2,500 posts...do I get a medal yet?

[Idealistic]

Ahhhh I can't take it anymore! Lies after lies! Where lies the truth? Somewhere along the line, I just know there's going to be "Sasuke, you were misinformed, Madara truly wanted power for himself. He used you like a dog. This is how it truly happened....."

lol but if this is true then I guess Sasuke returning to Konoha won't happen anytime soon, if at all. It looks like Sasuke really will turn against Konoha. There are many reasons for him to do so. The big one being how Konoha used the Uchiha, and the fact that Sasuke wants to resurrect his clan meaning he wants revenge for Konoha giving the order. And then the fact that he has been lied to about his brother and how they used Itachi.

Just when we thought Sasuke's path of vengeance has ended, he now has new people to kill. Or a village I should say.

[animus]

I guess it's good that it's taking this step into the right direction. I was kinda wondering after Akatsuki if the story's just gonna thin out.

But it's good now that Sasuke's possible warpath in the future would be a good premise for the series to build around.

[Uchiha Barles]

I love that "everything you believed to be right is a lie" thing they did. It's kinda like in DBZ...when you find out after watching all of DB that Goku was actually sent to earth to destroy it all along. This brings it back to the first arc, where the line between good and evil was blurred and battles were merely between ninjas of conflicting interests.

Edit:
Rereading the chapter....I thought of something else....
Itachi became a spy under someone's orders, and likely killed the clan on someone's orders. Obviously, the 3rd would not have had a part of it...I wonder if Itachi was a member of roots?

That's an incredibly compelling speculation. For awhile it seemed like the importance of roots was going to fade into the background, never to be brought up again. But this would indeed make sense. Itachi already had the background necessary to be a member of roots, seeing as he was an anbu squad leader.

In keeping with the darkening themes the story seems to be venturing into, it would be nice if this eventually found it's way into the development of our main character. Naruto needs to hear this story. Sure, he's willing to die to protect the village, but is he willing to be hated?

[boilerph]

As interesting as this turn is I have to say, I just don't believe it. I think Madara is just trying to manipulate Sasuke. I have no problem with the historical part but it gets sketchy with Itachi and the "Uchiha rebellion." Sasuke's memories don't match up with this story, they do match up with an Itachi who was being similarly manipulated by Madara.

[February]

wow this chapter is incredibly interesting
but I am confused whether it was Madara or 1st Hokage that used Kyuubi in their final fight
I am interested in how Madara was able to survive for many generations...must be one of the techniques Oro sought to get...or maybe it is Oro's body transfer jutsu


I can see a much longer story from here on out. Many chapters ago, when Pain announced Akatsuki's true purpose is wealth/political gain, I knew something was not right. I guess Madara needed Akatsuki to fight against Konoha.

I am starting to think that Sasuke will now side with Madara. Maybe become his pupil or something. I'm still wondering why Itachi sided with Madara after all that. I still don't know why Madara would help Itachi exterminate the village. Maybe he felt betrayed after they betrayed him.

[Assertn]

It's already been stated that only the Uchiha were capable of controlling Kyubi, I'm certain it was Madara who used him.

I'm sure most of the story is true, however I would be surprised if Madara wasn't lying about the Kyubi's second attack being a "natural disaster."

[Rikudo]

I also think that Madara's story is half truth and half lies. He's trying to stir something inside of Sasuke to seek revenge against the senju/Konoha clan since he can't do it himself due to some sort of limitation.

[Assertn]

I kinda want to see Yamato and Madara fight now...

[February]

I kinda want to see Yamato and Madara fight now...

Yamato would get owned no doubt

But didn't it say that the 1st hokage was able to control the bijuu as well?

I would still like to see what Madara is capable of. Maybe Itachi was right, maybe he might not be strong as he used to be;; but even still...to be able to lead Pain and Akatsuki..he must be stronger than the sannins easily

[michelous]

I also think that Madara's story is half truth and half lies. He's trying to stir something inside of Sasuke to seek revenge against the senju/Konoha clan since he can't do it himself due to some sort of limitation.
since naruto is the 4th hokage's son he may be connect to the senju clan this might give sasuke a new reason to hate naturo

[chet_chetty]

I have no idea how to speculate it outside of a convenient Obito theory, but I find it worthy of pointing out the panel of Madara gripping his right arm with his left hand and it making a "clench" sound. I want to think there was a significant reason for that panel to be included.

I have to say that both Itachi's and Madara's stories contain half-truths to convince Sasuke to fulfill what I feel are their opposing goals.

I find it hard to believe Madara's brother willingly gave him his eyes when neither had the knowledge that an eternal MS would result from it. And why did Madara's brother have to sacrifice his eyes and not vice-versa? Was it known that Madara was the obvious stronger of the two and Uchiha's best shot was for him to carry his brother's eyes?

Maybe Madara did control Kyuubi to attack the village. But with Madara assumed dead, the higher brass of Konoha truly saw it as a natural disaster yet nonetheless pinned it on the Uchiha clan to stay in line with the Senju clan's discrimination over the Uchihas. The political ploy still needed to be carried out regardless if Kyuubi's attack was natural or shinobi controlled.

I was also interested in the flashback of Itachi seeking to measure his capacity reappearing once again...particularly in this chapter. It's as if despite working as a spy for the Konoha higher brass AND acting as a subordinate to Madara, he still had own view on things and his own goal to fulfill.

[NM]

I'm sure most of the story is true, however I would be surprised if Madara wasn't lying about the Kyubi's second attack being a "natural disaster."

You know, after you mentioned that, it got me thinking about one of the chapters before Jiraiya had fought Pain. I remember him saying that before the 4th died, he knew of something really important. Thus why he sealed the Kyubi into his son. Perhaps he knew that the Kyubi was controlled again. Who else would know something like that besides the man who fought it head on and sealed it away?

And after Naruto's fight with Sasuke at the Valley of the End, Kakashi had said that their lives are remarkably like Madara's and the 1st's. I really think Sasuke might join Madara's ranks to get revenge for his brother and his clan. And he thinks nothing of the Leaf Village anymore anyway.

[Darthmoe]

So Itachi was a spy for Konoha's higher ups.

It seems like he was probably a spy in Akatsuki also for Konoha's higher ups. And i do agree that it would make sense that he was part of Roots. Roots probably knew Madara was alive, and sent Itachi into Akatsuki to track Madara.

[February]

I have no idea how to speculate it outside of a convenient Obito theory, but I find it worthy of pointing out the panel of Madara gripping his right arm with his left hand and it making a "clench" sound. I want to think there was a significant reason for that panel to be included.


Please don't try to include another Obito theory here. We've had enough of those...I don't see how this story has anything to do with Obito anyhow. Give the poor guy a rest and let him die in an amazing backstory

As for this chapter, this story makes me feel that Madara is not as bad as I thought he was before. I understand his situation and it really makes the founders of Konoha and hokages seem unethnical. However, as some of you said, I also think that he is holding some lies and truth from Sasuke.

But I am lead to believe that Madara will turn out to be the ultimate villian type of character...just because there really isn't anyone strong enough to be one..maybe except Pain

[Sidnne]

So Itachi was a spy for Konoha's higher ups.

It seems like he was probably a spy in Akatsuki also for Konoha's higher ups.

Wouldn't that be something if Itachi turned out to be Jiraiya's spy?

[Chiodos]

And for what not reason would Jiraya's agenda be?

..no, seroiusly?

[DB_Hunter]

Jiraiya tried to kill Itachi way back when he first appeared with Kisame, so I don' think that's the case.

I think it's really interesting how this story is developing. Were the Hokages unethical? It depends on your point of view. Personally I don't think so.

1) Hashirama was clearly the people's choice, the only guy opposing him was Madara. So first off there was nothing wrong with Hashirama becoming Hokage instead of Madara or any other Uchiha.

2) It was Madara that actually did the first act of betrayal by attacking Hashirama with Kyuubi. You have to bear in mind that at that point, Hashirama was no longer simply the head of the Senju, a rival clan. He was Hokage, and as Kage of Konoha he represented both Senju and Uchiha. So Madara actually attacked the leadership of the Uchiha as well as the Senju. His attempts were to destabilise the village for supremacy only, because at that point he was, and this is even if we can believe him here, out of his paranoia that one day the Uchiha will be exterminated by the Senju. The possibility still remains he fought out of lust for power.

3) When the second Hokage made the Uchiha the military police, Madara may have had a point that they were being watched essentially. Though not good, it still gave them more authority than any other clan in the village, such as the Hyuuga, Nara, Aburame etc. Perhaps it could have been handled differently, but then I don't think this is a reason for an all out war and blood letting. This is again something that was political and needed to be resolved politically, if at all. In my view unless the Uchiha were expressly barred from taking the title of Hokage in the future, then there was nothing wrong. Actually it may be interesting now why Sarutobi become the third Hokage. Maybe he was chosen not only because of his ability, but because he was still a child and not from the generations that fought in the previous wars. He was not carrying all that political baggage.

4) The Uchiha should not have been segregated as they were when Kyuubi attacked again. The heads of Konoha decided to do this without firm evidence that an Uchiha from the village was behind this, and this was their mistake. This lead to distrust and hatred to breed. This I think was Konoha's only mistake in all this, as it played in to the hands of those Uchiha who thought like Madara and they would have felt humiliated. What the Uchiha did in response by trying a coup was wrong as well, but by that time it seems they felt too sidelined to think that they could resolve things politically. Whether the response of Konoha was proportionate i.e. to massacre the entire Uchiha clan in response to the coup, that is up for debate. I don't think this should have been done. In fact, I find it hard to believe that Sarutobi would have sanctioned something like this. It remains to be seen now in the next chapter how the massacre actually transpired.

[chet_chetty]

Please don't try to include another Obito theory here. We've had enough of those...I don't see how this story has anything to do with Obito anyhow.

I'm only referring to that one panel and nothing else let alone the Konoha history story. Again I ask why would Kishi include that panel of Madara's left hand gripping his right arm?

It's not like my Obito theory is some generic one. There's actually a little bit of detail to it however far fetched it may be. All the same it's not a theory I would purport with full force as I am more than open to any other interpretations of that panel.

[Assertn]

He was clenching his arm when he was talking about taking his brother's eyes.....
I think this would more likely imply that he still regrets having to do that, rather than, you know, suggesting he's Obito...

Jiraiya made a theory when he was talking to the frog key that the Kyubi's attack might not have been a natural disaster... Itachi also revealed that Madara has the power to control Kyubi... finally, it's already been shown that Madara has controlled Kyubi in the past. Three key details that could suggest Madara is lying about it being a natural disaster, but then again, who knows? Maybe these details are meant to justify the advisors' suspicions towards Uchiha...

Also, to answer whoever asked about it on the previous page -- Uchiha has the power to control Kyubi, Hashirama only has the power to pacify Kyubi.

[poopdeville]

I find it hard to believe Madara's brother willingly gave him his eyes when neither had the knowledge that an eternal MS would result from it. And why did Madara's brother have to sacrifice his eyes and not vice-versa? Was it known that Madara was the obvious stronger of the two and Uchiha's best shot was for him to carry his brother's eyes?


I don't really doubt that part of the story. Madara's MS was probably making him go blind. It's not inconceivable that a person might give his brother and clan leader eyes -- at least not in the Narutoverse. Indeed, Madara appears to have regretted it. We already saw a similar situation in the Hyuuga clan.

Eternal eyes was a side effect.

[chet_chetty]

He was clenching his arm when he was talking about taking his brother's eyes.....
I think this would more likely imply that he still regrets having to do that, rather than, you know, suggesting he's Obito...

A sign of regret makes total sense. I wasn't trying to suggest that there had to be some complicated meaning when he clenched his arm...I just wanted to know what else it could mean and not ignore it.

When Kyuubi told Sasuke he had a chakra that reminded him of Uchiha Madara, it was implied that they had a past relationship...another thing disputing Kyuubi's attack as a natural disaster.

[ruccus]

The Itachi situation, at least to me, is not done yet. If he was a spy for the higher-ups, why do they not know Madara is still alive, and running Akatsuki. Also, (this might just be an uneven translation) Madara shows no signs of hesitation, and the amount of panels used to actually show us Madara in the past lead me to believe that his story is true.

[Assassin]

Theres a good chance that someone in konoha knows about madara...most likely its danzo and maybe one or two other advisors.

The thing is, once itachi carreid out his mission to eliminate the uchiha clan, he was probably sent by the higher ups to join the ranks of akatsuki (he could've easily gone into hiding, no need to join the bad guys)....someone in konoha probably knew or suspected that madara was behind the kyuubi attack. They either suspected that he'd be the one running an organization like akatsuki, or at the very least, an organization like that would have some information on him...thats probably why they sent itachi there.

Hell, its even possible that after finishing his mission, he was sent to join akatsuki (since he obviously couldn't return) so konoha would have an inside man on a rogue group, one that had oro as a member. Information is power afterall.

[Sidnne]

And for what not reason would Jiraya's agenda be?

..no, seroiusly?

...What?

[DeathscytheVII]

That's interesting, someone here is obviously lying, either Madara or Itachi. I got the impression from Itachi that Madara helped him kill the entire clan, and now Madara is telling us a story suggesting that he was trying to build up the Uchiha clan. The plot grows deeper....

[Assertn]

I'm pretty sure Itachi was lying about Madara, because I don't think, based on his backstory, that Madara would kill his own clan.

[February]

I'm pretty sure Itachi was lying about Madara, because I don't think, based on his backstory, that Madara would kill his own clan.

I thought so too but its probable because Madara said he was betrayed by them. He probably has inner guilt for that? Thats the most logical explanation

[12345p]

Yamato would get owned no doubtAgreed.
But didn't it say that the 1st hokage was able to control the bijuu as well?The way I understood it - the 1rst and/or Yamato are able to control the bijuu chakra, but not the deamon itself.

[Death BOO Z]

I just thoguht that the 1st had the power to negate, 'subdue', 'seal', oppose, weaken, 'repeal' the kyuubi, not to control it.

I don't believe the netural disater thing, it seems too anti-climatic and out of place.
However, I could believe that the Uchiha basterds were planning to seal Kyuubi inside one of there own babies\kids (Sasuke? Itachi? Madare? choose your favorite) and use it's powers to rebel. but the 4th spoiled their plans by sealing the demon into Naruto, and now Madare wants to reclaim the demons and attack the leaf village.

but there's no way that Madare's telling the truth. Itachi fucking dies to protect Sasuke from Madare, so things are more than meets the eye (even if the eye has Byakugan, Sharingan and Ringan)

[Sidnne]

so things are more than meets the eye (even if the eye has Byakugan, Sharingan and Ringan)


Oh man, that's terrible! :o

[Assassin]

ya, wtf happened to the rinigan storyline? we get introduced to some uber leet doujutsu thats better then the sharingan and then nothing. i hope they tie things back to akatsuki's original plans, and pein's backstory.

[Krbadass]

Guys, dont forget way back when kyuubi told sasuke something like "one more thing, dont kill naruto, you'll regret it."

[DB_Hunter]

Interesting point.

Just playing with ideas here... Madara is all powerful at one point, then suddenly becomes a shadow of his former self. He isn't dead, but still lives. Kyuubi tells Sasuke not to kill Naruto. Could it be that the 4th sealed more than just the Kyuubi in Naruto? You don't create such a scroll in the middle of a fight with the most powerful bijuu do you... you got to have it already mostly complete, with they key to unlock the seal the only thing left to add.

I'm thinking this could not have been a reflex sort of thing Minato did. It seems he planned this all out. Maybe he knew of Madara and that he would return, and prepared for this. The reason I say this is because of that 'ultimate jutsu' scroll Jiraiya handed over to the frog before the Pein fight to pass on to Naruto. This same scroll has the key apparently to unlock the 4th's seal.

For me the outstanding plot points that need to tie in are:

1) Rinengan - What is the point of introducing uber powerful eyes so late in the series?
2) Team Hebi - They can't have just been for cheerleading purposes
3) Itachi's Unexplained death
4) Minato's scroll plus seal
5) The effect of Akatsuki controlling 8 of the 9 bijuu... will Kyuubi be able to take them all on at once? Will Sasuke use his eyes to control Kyuubi?
6) The role of Roots
7) Madara himself - what of his claim to toy with 'you children' later?
8) Kyuubi's warning for Sasuke not to kill Naruto

[Chiodos]

And where does Kyuubi warn Sasuke not to kill Naruto? Please tell.

[Rikudo]

It's during the arc when Naruto encounters Sasuke for the first time after 2 1/2 years.

[Yukimura]

More specifically: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/309/06/