How do you define "power" in One Piece

[docdan63]

Discussion in this thread will be about content in One Piece anime beyond what Kaizoku-Fansubs has released

I was looking at the description of the 3 great powers in OP. And it got me thinking. Since the Marines obviously have seastone cages and huge ships and giant groups of men ready to do battle. The shichibukai have previous bounty men of 80-200 million a piece and their respective massive amounts of power. And the the last one got me thinking the most. They're called the Yonkou literally Four Emperors, are the 4 great pirates who rule the second half of the Grand Line (known as 'the New World'). This was a mystery to me. They consist of the most powerful pirates in the series. So far 3 have been revealed.

http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Yonkou

Shanks
White beard
Kaidou (he beat Moria in the New World. This has yet to be revealed as how)
There is one left to be identified. And we don't know which one is Kaidou yet.

Now what I'm wondering is this. How can the Yonkou be so strong? How is shanks so strong? How is white beard so strong (besides being a giant) Do you think they have powers? Can they have some special crew to back them that no ones crew but Rogers could come close too? Do they have Fruits?

I'd like to know your comments

[Death BOO Z]

well, Shanks does have an ability (probably not devilfruit originated) that can make most of the pirates in WB's boat faint (say, anyone who's bounty is less than 50,000,000 - if we use bounty as power levels?). and those guys aren't pussy sailors like don kriegs men, they've sailing the new line for a few years now.
the Shishibukai still go by thier former bounty, and if we consider crocodille's actions (trying to destroy the nation, causing war, using silver clouds powder), his "bounty' probably doubles to the 300+ area.
Hawkeye has the air cutting skill, and if he can redirect bullets, it might also be used to redirect elemental attacks like fire and electrisity, not to mention his shockwaves.

WB, for now he has obvious strentgh, vitality, skill and all things pirate. and he probably has balls the size of Oz and Saul.

I think the most accurate power scale is the marine ranks, Admiral, Vice admiral, captain and so on.
Luffy counts as Vice Admiral, while the Younko are admiral or above, and everyone else is everything else. like in enies lobby, when the marine sent only captains and above to fight the SH...

here's another thing... Could Lucci beat Eneru? can anyone beat Eneru without complete lightning resistance?

[Assertn]

Enel seemed so blatantly overpowered, but don't forget that he's still completely useless against seastone. That one guy would've killed Enel if he hadn't used electricity to jump-start his heart back up.

[TwisT]

Yeah Enel so far seem to be the most powerful being introduced.

Not only did he have a Logia type power, which seems to be the most powerful one at that, but he had his Mantra. Which got enhanced by his lightning powers. Just his Mantra makes him one of the most powerful warriors out there.

Aside from Luffy, it don't seem like anyone could beat him. Only one that might have a chance is Black Beard. But Enel should be able to move with the speed of lightning if he wants. And Black Beards power to suck in people looks to be based on aiming or a cone-like suction. Enel should be able to read Black Beards move and move himself out of the target area and hit Black Beard with full power from a blind spot. Also Enels powers make him able to nuke anyone from great distances. He could simply just move far away and nuke him several miles away.

And i don't think many other Logia powers can stand up to his. Like Aoki that had ice powers. He still have a body mass that can be hit by lightning while Enel is pure energy. He don't have any body mass. Which means ice would travel right through him. And cold makes electricity move with less resistance. Only thing i can see would be that some people would be immune to his power but at the same time he would be immune to theirs. Like Ace and Smoker.

Luffy is probably the only one that have any real shot at beating Enel from what we have seen or heard so far. And even he had problem with Enels Mantra and him only using his lightning powers to move himself.

Only thing here that might indicate that people like Shanks and White Beard might be able to beat him would be that Ace powers looks to be almost the same. He doesn't seem to have a body mass and instead have a energy based mass. And fire is an immensely powerful element. But still he serves under White Beard. Is that simply because he is weaker or could he just admire White Beard so much that he follows him despite the fact that he is stronger? If White Beard can beat Ace he could theoretically beat Enel.

But back to the topic. Shanks aura was so powerful that lesser pirates faint in his presence. And i got the impression that White Beard have the exact same aura. And we know that Shanks don't have a devil fruit power since he was in the water when he saved Luffy. Unless he picked it up afterwards. And usually when someone has an overwhelming aura that can be felt by other so clearly is usually means that they are immensely powerful. I don't think the likes of Lucci would even be able to hurt Shanks and White Beard.

Only impression i have got from the Shichibukai is that most are probably just above Luffys level with one exception. Hawk Eye. It looks like he might be on the same level as the 4 Emperors.

If i'm gonna do like Death Boo Z did and use bounty's to compare their strengths, i would probably rank them:

Shichibukai: most between 300-1000 million with Hawk Eye being at the top at 1 billion.
4 emperors: 1-2 billion
Marine admirals: 500-750 million.

If Enel would have been counted he would probably been 2+ billion and Ace would probably be 750-1000 million.

I do believe that if Enel fight smarter and uses his power to it's full potential he would be invincible.

[Abdula]

Well we have no idea how the different Devils fruit would affect each other so it really is hard to say. I mean how would Eneru do in a battle against Smoker or Ace and I would hate to think that someone with a Devil's fruit would be able to beat someone like Shanks simply because they have a DF power at their disposal. So I think individual strength has alot to do with it for example as the guys in CP9 said there appears to be specific training and or techniques that can be used to increase the power of a DF, so the strength of a DF user isn't a given for example even though they are the same type there is an obvious gap in power between someone at Smokers level and someone at Ace's or Aokiji level. Then there are guys like Zoro who don't have any DF powers but are incredibly strong none the less and it seems like Shanks maybe the same as well.

I highly doubt Enel is invincible or anywhere near it nor do I think he is the strongest. I think of the DF users thus far if not of all of them together, Black Beard would be the strongest. He is a logia type and a very powerful one at that and unlike the other logia types he is incredibly strong(physically) which he would have to be since he does take actual damage but I think that works to his advantage. Secondly his ability is incredibly powerful and seemingly inescapable, he can generate gravity fields anywhere and can supposedly absorb matter and even energy and most importantly he can neutralize the power of other DF users, seriously how the hell do you beat that.

-Ah Never mind Munsu took care of it.

[TwisT]

Yeah i agree with you there. that's why i think White Beard and Shanks (and probably also Hawk Eyes because i think he's purely swordsman like Zoro) are at the top without any powers and i also think White Beard could and perhaps have beaten Ace which might be the reason he follows him now. Question is just if he joined White Beard before or after he got his DF.

But like i said. If Enel fought more wisely he would be unbeatable. How can anyone defend against someone that doesn't even need to be anywhere near you you attack you?

Unless Enels powers only where that strong in Skypeia. He could hear everything that was said or done all over Skypeia and he could use his powers to strike anywhere to punish anyone he thought deserved it. And if he has the same range down on the ground as he did in the sky he can sit on a boat in the harbor and strike anyone on the island he is docked too. No one except the people that has immunity to his powers can stand up to him. And even then he can just keep his distance. That way even if he can't beat them, they can't beat him. Also i don't see many powers that would even be able to affect him even if they got close to fight him.

Also i wonder how people that only have fighting technique would be able to attack someone that can't be attacked by physical attacks. Like Black Beard said to Ace after punching him. "It must been a long time since someone hit you" or something along those lines.

Anyways if Enel just used his power in a smarter way (yes it might be a cowardly way to fight) he can't be beaten and there wouldn't be many that could even stand up or survive his attacks. Unless the likes of White Beard and Shanks are considered so strong that Enels lightning beams from the sky would be considered no more then a insect bite. Which to me seems to make them way to powerful.

[Death BOO Z]

you are over-estimating Enel...
his lightning\matra aside, Enel was a horrible warrior, had low fighting stamina and was quite 'slow' in his movements.
the only thing that he had was the lightning based invurnability, which still has some weaknesses.
other than rubber, probably every non-conductor matrial could harm him, and there are quite a few of those, not to mention he probably couldn't avoid other logia based attacks.

his mantra is good, and all, but it depends on his movement speed, which isn't very high (imagine him trying to predict rob lucci's speed, impossible).

leavinng us with his electricity attacks. and for heavens sake, Nami could (theortically) divert those, so anyone with similar abilities could do that. and there's still the option of using a metal rod to 'aborb' the hit, and simply 'fastmoving' the attack.

[DarthEnderX]

Basically, anyone with a seastone weapon and Luffy's general fighting ability could beat Enel.

Some say "well he can predict attacks and teleport instantly so he should never get hit by a sea-stone weapon."

And yet, Luffy still beat him, by hitting him. Which in itself is inconsistant. He shouldn't have hit him, but somehow he did.

Basically, if you gave Garp a giant sea-stone cannonball, he'd make short work of Enel. He shouldn't be able to, but if Luffy can do it, so could he.


On the subject of Shanks making Whitebeards crew pass out, that didn't seem to be an actually "ability". They explained that Shanks is so powerful, that those who are weak feel suffocated around him.

They use similar things in Naruto and Bleach. In Bleach they would call it his "spiritual pressure".


Also, Whitebeard isn't a giant. Half giant maybe, but he's only like 2-3 times as tall as Shanks. The giants are like 100 ft tall.

[Kraco]

Enel was probably still far from his actual potential because he had rotted so long up there in the high skies with nobody tough to fight against. If he had been living in an environment with numerous tough opponents, like the greater pirate captains and admirals have, he would probably have been a lot harder opponent. If you have little experience and willpower it doesn't matter how powerful you are theoretically when facing badass opponents.

[docdan63]

Basically, anyone with a seastone weapon and Luffy's general fighting ability could beat Enel.

Some say "well he can predict attacks and teleport instantly so he should never get hit by a sea-stone weapon."

And yet, Luffy still beat him, by hitting him. Which in itself is inconsistant. He shouldn't have hit him, but somehow he did.

Basically, if you gave Garp a giant sea-stone cannonball, he'd make short work of Enel. He shouldn't be able to, but if Luffy can do it, so could he.


On the subject of Shanks making Whitebeards crew pass out, that didn't seem to be an actually "ability". They explained that Shanks is so powerful, that those who are weak feel suffocated around him.



Thats true.

One a side note. What episode was it that Shanks visited White beard on his ship? Can anyone let me know? I've been wanting to watch it for some time now and I can't find what episode it was.

[Munsu]

Episode 316:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UBgSEFtwlSQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yv6TrISGoj8

[docdan63]

Thanks man

Wait wait. Black beard became a shichibukai member? When did this happen? Is he Crocs replacement? How did this come about?

[Munsu]

Well, I read the manga and I'm not up to date with the anime. I don't remember if it was ever anounced that he became one, but if he defeated Ace, it shouldn't take long to become one. Just as he was after Luffy to simply prove himself, I think defeating someone like Ace might be just as good, if not better.

[DarthEnderX]

Last I heard, Blackbeard was looking to defeat a really powerful pirate to be made a Shuchibuki. Then fought Ace.

The anime hasn't said how that played out. But if Blackbeard defeated Ace, I'm guessing he'd be made a shichubuki.
Enel was probably still far from his actual potential because he had rotted so long up there in the high skies with nobody tough to fight against. If he had been living in an environment with numerous tough opponents, like the greater pirate captains and admirals have, he would probably have been a lot harder opponent. If you have little experience and willpower it doesn't matter how powerful you are theoretically when facing badass opponents.Or he'd have been beaten by somebody strong alot sooner. Growing stronger through fighting tough opponents requires you to not be dead or imprisoned after doing it.

The Strawhats keep getting stronger because they keep winning. If they ever lost...well, series over.

[Augury]

The Strawhats have lost on several occasions, but they either lucked out or it wasn't serious and kept going. Take Water Seven for example.. when Luffy & Zoro (ok, Nami and Chopper too) first fought CP9 Luffy could've well been killed.

[Abdula]

Yeah seriously they get beaten up all the time, I mean Zoro has been the walking wounded for how long now. Just look at what Crocodile did to Luffy or Aokiji, so its definitely not for lack of losing. Enel was just a little idiot who lucked out and ate a Logia type fruit and thought he was a God. He wasn't nearly as strong as you guys believe him to be and the only reason he was able to rule Skypiea was simply because nobody was able to attack him because he is a logia type. People were able to get past his mantra and all his other abilities its just that they weren't able to actually hit him. If the people on Sky Island had knowledge of DF and Seastones they would have been rid of him a long time ago.

[Kraco]

Yeah. If you grow up surrounded by tough muthafuckers all around, many of whom could kick your ass any day, you don't survive by thinking: I'm God! I'm invincible! I give people free shots because nobody can hurt me! Bwahahahaahaha! Nah, you become gradually stronger and wiser if you want to become a stronger at all and still live. I don't think Enel was an idiot literally so under right circumstances he could have become a lot stronger opponent, probably with such a logia he might have been near the top anywhere. But indeed he seemed to lack the right kind of experience and attitude for that, making him nothing but a random joe with a nice fruit.

[docdan63]

One the point of power. The shichibukai aren't weak, but in all honesty, does anyone really think that just beating Ace is good enough. I mean yeah the guys fruit is one of the best, and it's why he became a shichibukai (at heart) but, has he really mastered it? I mean if you think about it, we can't tell how strong he is until we see him later on using the force of gravity on someone really really strong. Like AssertN said, it'd be interesting a fight between Blackbeard another Shichibukai. Or one of the Yonkou pirates. And typically, I would think it would take longer to become one of the worlds most powerful pirates.

On a similar note. I just found this out. We haven't yet seen him, but did anyone else know that Jimbei (whale shark Shichibukai) was Arlongs former captain?

[Abdula]

Yeah we know because it was mentioned a couple times already and yes Ace is really really strong. He is the commander of the 2nd division so that would make him third in command under White Beard plus his middle initial is D. Before Teach even got a DF he was strong enough to fight against and permanently scar Shanks and that was without a DF, so that should be proof enough of his strength.

Besides the only reason he became a shichibukai is because they were trying to find a new member to replace Crocodile. Its not just because he defeated Ace, they considered him even before they knew who he was they just didn't know anything about him so he had to do something to prove himself and thats where Ace came in. Defeating Ace proved that he is at the very least, stronger than Crocodile, so therefore he is a worthy replacement.

[TwisT]

Ok i can agree with you on the fact that Enel was a moron. But if i say it like this. If i had Enels powers i would be unstoppable.

You guys say that alot of people bypassed his Mantra? I can't remember anyone except Luffy that managed to do that. All the other basically got in free shots because Enel thought himself a good that couldn't be hurt. Even when Viper used the seastone and his dial (was it reject?) that stopped Enels heart, Enel basically let him get that hit because he didn't know about the seastone. But after he came back to life and Zorro tried to use the seastone Enel knew about the effect and easily avoided the hit.

And even Luffy had problem bypassing the Mantra. That was why Luffy had to go hit that gold wall, so that the punches would be random and couldn't be read with Mantra. I don't really remember much of the Luffy vs Enel fight but from what i remember Luffy basically shonen-hearted most of that fight. I got the impression that that was a fight that Enel should have won but somehow Luffy came out ontop, much because of Enels own inexperience in fighting someone truly strong and his own stupidity.


I can't remember what Luffys bounty was when he defeated Bellamy but i think it was either 100 or 160 million. But that was enough for Black Beard to prove to the world government that he had what it took. Instead he took down Ace that is probably worth over 600 million and was notorious throughout all of the Grand Line.

If Luffy was enough to prove his strength i think Ace did that 10 times over. So whether or not it has been reveled in the show that he became a shichibukai doesn't matter since it should be the most obvious thing to ever been speculated about since the beginning of this series.

[docdan63]

With all this talk about past eps and battles got me thinking. I've forgotten what eps certains cool things happened

1) What episode did Black Beard fight Ace?
2) What episode was it when the Shichibukai met in Mariejois?

I don't have those eps and always wondered what numbers they were