Parents, kids and discipline

[Archangel]

I just saw this image on the internet and i thought i'd share it with you... seriously this is just wrong

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7553/450pxohloli21un1.th.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=450pxohloli21un1.jpg)

I know i generally post at the pit but i want everyone to give me your serious opinion on this: what the hell is happening to the world? That girl must be 12 or something!

Who's fault is this? Society, her parents education, the crap on TV? Im totally serious doesn't this just feak you out / piss you off?

[Board of Command]

She's catering to a niche market.

[Abdula]

What is with you, you don't have to create a thread for everything. I don't really see what the big deal is yeah the world and society has gone to hell in a hand basket but there are certainly far more important things happening in the world than that.

As for whose fault it is, you seem to have neglected the one logical choice its her own damn fault since she is the one making the decisions, hopefully. Really it doesn't bother me at all if some little girl wants to tell the world that she is good to go, maybe she wants to grow up to be the next Ashley DiPietro or Amy Fisher or Anna Nicole Smith, those are actually goals nowadays.

It's cute that it bothers you so much though but to me its not worth raising a fuss over, heck I went to high school with a girl whose sole ambition in life was to be a fluffer . Don't get me wrong though I don't agree with or condone any of that crap but thats how the world is so get used to it because there isn't much you can actually do about it.

[saman]

*squints at picture* does that look photoshopped to anyone else?

[Abdula]

Yes it does but lets not try and change the topic.

[XanBcoo]

You came here from NarutoFan, didn't you Archangel? The least you could have done is made a descent thread title.

I'm not even going to comment on the picture since it's obviously photoshopped.

[Sapphire]

Am I the only one who thinks that pic is hilarious? D:

PS - But if it was real, I would be equally pissed.

[Genma]

I kinda laughed at my friend's response to it, "god I would $&$* her retarded."

Photoshopped, though. And even if it wasn't... whatever, if its her choice to be a prepubescent ho then she has a right to express herself... I guess.

[IFHTT]

I just saw this .... on the internet.

Welcome to the internet...

[Animeniax]

I kinda laughed at my friend's response to it, "god I would $&$* her retarded."

Photoshopped, though. And even if it wasn't... whatever, if its her choice to be a prepubescent ho then she has a right to express herself... I guess.
That's the whole problem, douche, if this was real, she'd be too young to make that kind of decision on her own, so the real tragedy would be that her parents encourage or allow this crap.

How old is your pedo friend? Is he registered?

[Junior]

Am I the only one who thinks that pic is hilarious? D:

PS - But if it was real, I would be equally pissed.

What she said.

But hey, off-topic, have you seen the clothes available for little girls these days? it's the stuff teenagers wear. Which is ridiculous. They're promoting sluttiness.

[Abdula]

That's the whole problem, douche, if this was real, she'd be too young to make that kind of decision on her own, so the real tragedy would be that her parents encourage or allow this crap.

How old is your pedo friend? Is he registered?

Too young to make this kinda of decision on her own. Which world do you live in because I would like to go there, I guess the answer would be in your own world in which case never mind. 12, is too young to make this kind of decision on her own, if only that were true. Maybe you've never seen these little girls walking around in clothes that say cum dumpster on them and no I'm not making that up.

[Animeniax]

I guess it's not the same cesspool you live in. Little girls like this don't know any better. They emulate what they see on TV or from their parents. So in the end, it is their parents' neglect or encouragement that is at fault.

Please stop looking for little girls with suggestive clothing. It's gross.

[darkmetal505]

But hey, off-topic, have you seen the clothes available for little girls these days? it's the stuff teenagers wear. Which is ridiculous. They're promoting sluttiness.

No, they are making money.

I call that the photo originated from 4chan, in which case you shouldn't give any importance in the first place.

[Abdula]

I guess it's not the same cesspool you live in. Little girls like this don't know any better. They emulate what they see on TV or from their parents. So in the end, it is their parents' neglect or encouragement that is at fault.

Please stop looking for little girls with suggestive clothing. It's gross.
Stop trying to suggest I'm a pedophile, I live in NYC and as anyone who lives here can attest you see alot of things. There you go again with your generalizations yeah its always their parents fault for neglecting their children, thoughts like that are what are responsible for these kind of things in the first place since the kids don't have to take any responsibility for their actions. Everything is someone else's fault.

[Assassin]

Hey, pornstars gotta come from somewhere. We can't all grow up to be doctors and lawyers.

[Animeniax]

Stop trying to suggest I'm a pedophile, I live in NYC and as anyone who lives here can attest you see alot of things. There you go again with your generalizations yeah its always their parents fault for neglecting their children, thoughts like that are what are responsible for these kind of things in the first place since the kids don't have to take any responsibility for their actions. Everything is someone else's fault.
You said it, not me, pedo. Kids are kids for a reason. That's why they're not allowed to vote or drink alcohol or consent to sex, they don't know any better. It's the parents' fault for not raising them better. If that picture is real, that little girl has no clue of the possible consequences of wearing a shirt like that, what it really means or what could happen to her. I imagine if your parents did a better job, you wouldn't be "lost in the darkness". Or is that your own fault, and your parents had nothing to do with it?


Hey, pornstars gotta come from somewhere. We can't all grow up to be doctors and lawyers.Actually that's pretty f*cked up that you'd say that Assassin. It's common knowledge that a lot of porn stars get their start by some violent and tragic sex crime committed against them in their formative years.

[Archangel]

K... my response to all you guys: If you think something like that is normal, there's something seriously messed up in your head.


That's the whole problem, douche, if this was real, she'd be too young to make that kind of decision on her own, so the real tragedy would be that her parents encourage or allow this crap.

Now this is a normal person's reaction. Thank you ani.

[Junior]

No, they are making money.

I call that the photo originated from 4chan, in which case you shouldn't give any importance in the first place.

But still. >.> parents shouldn't allow it at such a young age. I've even seen high heels in the kiddies section. Why should a little girl be burdened with high heels when she's young? it's cruel. D:

[Abdula]

You said it, not me, pedo. Kids are kids for a reason. That's why they're not allowed to vote or drink alcohol or consent to sex, they don't know any better. It's the parents' fault for not raising them better. If that picture is real, that little girl has no clue of the possible consequences of wearing a shirt like that, what it really means or what could happen to her. I imagine if your parents did a better job, you wouldn't be "lost in the darkness". Or is that your own fault, and your parents had nothing to do with it?

The little girl has no clue, atleast I would give her the credit of actually having a mind of her own if she is just a tool then thats another matter. As for me being "Lost in the darkness" since you people like to talk about that alot I guess I should explain it sometime.


Actually that's pretty f*cked up that you'd say that Assassin. It's common knowledge that a lot of porn stars get their start by some violent and tragic sex crime committed against them in their formative years.
Thats how the world is.

[Archangel]

Thats how the world is.

Most fucking reatrded justification ever. Seriously that made me lose respect on your opinion Abdula.


But still. >.> parents shouldn't allow it at such a young age. I've even seen high heels in the kiddies section. Why should a little girl be burdened with high heels when she's young? it's cruel. D:

Well it isn't just the parents fault, even at that young a age they are already teased for being different. And the all pre-adolescent bullshit really started because of all the shity advertising that you get in your TV these days. The whole situation is fucked up.

[Junior]

Wait...so the media can be blamed?

I mean, sure, media, parents, and actually, Abdula's kinda right. It's how the world is these days. Everyone just seems to accept it and just let their kids do what they need to do to fit in.

[Archangel]

In that case lets just accept the iraq war and let them keep killing each other because while bush is in power there's nothing any of us can do about it.

Just because they say it's normal that doesn't make it right junior

[Abdula]

Your opinion of me isn't really important since I think you're really naive but how is my justification retarded especially since I wasn't justifying anything. Its not right and it shouldn't but happening but it happens all the time thus me saying thats just how the world is isn't retarded at all. No one is arguing that its right.

[Animeniax]

Wait...so the media can be blamed?

I mean, sure, media, parents, and actually, Abdula's kinda right. It's how the world is these days. Everyone just seems to accept it and just let their kids do what they need to do to fit in. Blaming it on the media takes the responsibility away from the parents', which is wrong. It falls back on the parents to dictate what the child can see of and learn from the media. Kids are like sponges, they absorb stuff they are exposed to.

The world wouldn't be this way if people didn't keep copping out with bs excuses like "that's just how the world is".

[Junior]

In that case lets just accept the iraq war and let them keep killing each other because while bush is in power there's nothing any of us can do about it.

Just because they say it's normal that doesn't make it right junior

true. But I said normal, not right. Because it's seen so much, people have learned to deal with it, I suppose.

And strangely enough, it is sorta the parents fault. I mean, WHO pays for their clothes?

o_o; My mom once told me every parent wants their kid to fit in and not be an outsider. So if the majority are whores...seriously. Then what?

[Abdula]

See Ani there is your problem right there, being that parents can't control everything their kids are exposed to even if they tried which is why I think you blaming the parents in this circumstance based solely on a doctored pic is silly.

[Animeniax]

Shrug, I said if this picture was real, then it's the parents' fault. No, parents can't control everything their kid is exposed to, but with the proper guidelines and influence on their kid, they won't have to.

[Archangel]

Any parent that would let their sun/daughter leave the house in that should be junted down by child services.

[Abdula]

I guess you've never seen a girl leave the house in one set of clothes but carry or wear another set of clothes for when she gets outside, it doesn't just happen on tv.

Shrug, I said if this picture was real, then it's the parents' fault. No, parents can't control everything their kid is exposed to, but with the proper guidelines and influence on their kid, they won't have to.
Why don't you get it they could have the proper guidelines and influences and still choose to do whatever they want. I don't know if you were such a tool as a kid but I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt because when I was growing up I had many many influences both good and bad as I'm sure everyone can attest to and btw my parents did an awesome job but I chose to do what I wanted and what I decided was acceptable and everyone has to make that choice.

[XanBcoo]

I see what Abdula's saying, in that you really can't control young people. It's like trying to get teenagers to stop having sex. It's just not gonna happen. You also have to account for the fact that the world is full of morons, and this kinda thing is unfortunately not unique. Obviously it's parents' responsibility to raise their children, but that really can only extend to the influence you have over your own family.

You can throw blame around and/or do your part to counterbalance things, but it can only go so far.

o_o; My mom once told me every parent wants their kid to fit in and not be an outsider. So if the majority are whores...seriously. Then what?
I really wonder how many parents think that, and to what extent. If I had children, I'd want them to be popular and have friends, but not at the expense of sacrificing their integrity. That will be something my future kids will have drilled into them by the time they're teenagers.

[darkmetal505]

But still. >.> parents shouldn't allow it at such a young age. I've even seen high heels in the kiddies section. Why should a little girl be burdened with high heels when she's young? it's cruel. D:

If the kids see it on TV, they will emulate it. If the parents strictly say no then either one of three things will happen: one, the kid quietly accepts what their parents say but secretly yearns for it because all his/her friends have it, two, the kid whines so much that the parents purchase the clothes anyway, or three, the kid is so scared of their parents, like I was, that they give no thought about it and realize later that his/her parents were correct after all . It's really up to the parents to monitor the child and the kid making the correct decisions later in life. Just wearing the clothes doesn't make them slutty.

If society as a whole is promoting scantily clad behavior, then there isn't anything we can do to stop it. Out of all the kids, some are going to turn out to be, like Assassin said, porn stars.

As for high heels, I wouldn't know.

[Junior]

If the kids see it on TV, they will emulate it. If the parents strictly say no then either one of three things will happen: one, the kid quietly accepts what their parents say but secretly yearns for it because all his/her friends have it, two, the kid whines so much that the parents purchase the clothes anyway, or three, the kid is so scared of their parents, like I was, that they give no thought about it and realize later that his/her parents were correct after all . It's really up to the parents to monitor the child and the kid making the correct decisions later in life. Just wearing the clothes doesn't make them slutty.

If society as a whole is promoting scantily clad behavior, then there isn't anything we can do to stop it. Out of all the kids, some are going to turn out to be, like Assassin said, porn stars.

As for high heels, I wouldn't know.

haha, my parents were like that too.

So in the end, it's entirely up to the parents, I suppose.


I really wonder how many parents think that, and to what extent. If I had children, I'd want them to be popular and have friends, but not at the expense of sacrificing their integrity. That will be something my future kids will have drilled into them by the time they're teenagers.

Yes, do that. Good parenting skills. =) It's weird what certain parents want for their kids and how far they go for it.

[XanBcoo]

Coincidentally, I was at H.E.B. last night, and I saw this woman who couldn't have been more than a few years older than me there with her baby and some other woman her age. The little girl was crying and pointing at a toy phone, and the hick mother said, in a particularly obnoxious voice, "What am I supposed to do?? She wants tha phone!!" and pouted at the other woman, who just didn't give a fuck, like an idiot. She ended up throwing the toy in the shopping cart while the little girl grasped for it angrily.

That poor girl will be probably be wearing makeup and a "BITCH" shirt when she's 8, and probably 11 when she loses her virginity. It's really all downhill after that.

[Archangel]

Well yeah it starts at that age that's why parents have to actually do some parenting and smack their kids when they pull shit like that. Seriously, especially white parents are way too easy on their kids.

[Animeniax]

It's the f'ed up laws in this f'ed up country. Children have too many rights, and parents are scared to discipline their kids for fear of criminal charges and such. Kids were a lot better behaved when parents could use the belt on their asses, or the principal could use the paddle. Now it's called abuse and kids get timeout. Like that fixes the problem.

[Abdula]

Why do you guys think a solution to societies problems would be so simple. What are you saying Ani that before 1974 Americans never had bad kids, because that just isn't true and physical violence doesn't solve a problem anymore than timeout or grounding someone does.

[Chiodos]

Just grounding someone doesn't help everytime. Sometimes you do need more extreme methods that doesn't consist violence.

[Board of Command]

It's the f'ed up laws in this f'ed up country. Children have too many rights, and parents are scared to discipline their kids for fear of criminal charges and such. Kids were a lot better behaved when parents could use the belt on their asses, or the principal could use the paddle. Now it's called abuse and kids get timeout. Like that fixes the problem.
I completely agree. Kids these days could use some hurting.

[IFHTT]

It's the f'ed up laws in this f'ed up country. Children have too many rights, and parents are scared to discipline their kids for fear of criminal charges and such. Kids were a lot better behaved when parents could use the belt on their asses, or the principal could use the paddle. Now it's called abuse and kids get timeout. Like that fixes the problem.


Truth...


And this also reminds me of this old maddox article:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/beatkid4.jpg (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=beat)

[darkmetal505]

or as Russell Peters says, "White parents, you need to beat your kids."

[KrayZ33]

I completely agree. Kids these days could use some hurting.

well if you have to hit your children then you have done something wrong before.

so... 9 out of 10 times, if you see a child and think "this kid deserves some beatings" its his/her parents fault. 8[

[Sapphire]

That's the whole problem, douche, if this was real, she'd be too young to make that kind of decision on her own, so the real tragedy would be that her parents encourage or allow this crap.

I agree with this. I know if I was caught wearing this crap when I was 11-now then my dad would probably kick my ass, blame all my friends, and send me to military school or something.

Even when I was 12 I was smart enough to know that it's pretty fucking stupid to act the way that many young kids act (trying to be cool in elementary-high school), aka getting drunk, being whores, dressing like whores, etc. And why did I know that? I guess it was because my parents raised me correctly.

There is this really stupid 14 year old girl on my bus who I hate because she is very loud, talking about all the black d*ck she gets, saying she is better than everyone else and thus gets to push her way in front of a line to be the first girl on a bus, yells at all the younger kids and hits on them, etc. When I was 14 I wasn't doing that shit, I very well knew the difference between being a normal mammal and being a self degrading whore, I was already writing essays on the internet, worrying about grades, my future etc. She pretty much gave all the people who weren't equally as whorish (or didn't worship her with glassy eyes) a hard time, including myself. (Which is quite a laugh, because I just made her look stupid, or ahem, accidentally hit her by reflex)

So anyway, yesterday morning she's talking about a baby being freaking due. YES PEOPLE, SHE'S 14 AND PREGNANT. And is she filled with remorse of being a pregnant sophomore in high school with no father in sight? NO! Did her dad or mom kick her ass? NO! Does she live every day in dread of having to take care of another human at such a young age? NO! If any of these things had happened, yes I know I am going to hell for saying this, but I would have been happy that her life is ruined now (she is excited about the baby kicking etc). But no, she doesn't even know what kind of mistake she made because her parents are fucking stupid and didn't raise her right, and apparently they don't care either. (She laughs on the phone with her mom about sexing minorities)

No amount of television or peer pressure can ruin you as much as having a dumb fucking parent who doesn't know how to raise or punish a child correctly IMO. All I can feel is sorry for the child for being born into such a terrible environment, and an urge to call CPS.

[Munsu]

If only this kinds of things happened to kids who have terrible parents... it's simply not the case, so stop with the generalizations that it's all the medias fault, that it's all the parents fault... at some point people will have to acknowledge that some kids are just naturaly fucked up.

[Sapphire]

Really? I think it is the parents responsibility if they are unable to prevent their 14 year old child from getting pregnant, at the very least. Some kids are just fucked up, I agree, but I don't think that that's a big enough matter to kilter off the fact that many people are the way they are because of how they were raised.

That doesn't change the fact that in this case, she is the result of her parents wrongdoing.

(Maybe if she spent more time talking on the phone with her mom about, say, college rather than sexing up men, she wouldn't be pregnant right now)

[Munsu]

Really? I think it is the parents responsibility if they are unable to prevent their 14 year old child from getting pregnant, at the very least. Some kids are just fucked up, I agree, but I don't think that that's a big enough matter to kilter off the fact that many people are the way they are because of how they were raised.
You would be wrong. It's simply not true in all cases... I personally know people from good families, great parents, and they still fuck up just like everyone else. It's simply not ALL of their fault... people can only do so much; the rest is putting faith on the kid you raised properly and pray that he ends up alright.

[itadakimasu]

ignoring the fact that the start of the thread was made w\ a photoshopped picture of a 12 year old... it is the parents fault all the way.

about a month ago i was getting in my car and these 2 kids were playing near my car... the one kid was telling the other kid to do something.... then he said "don't make me check you''

now, these kids were probably 7 or 8 at the most... maybe 6.... its really sad. Our future generations have alot of cleaning up to do.

No need to use race here.

[Archangel]

Well the parents should talk about sex with their kids but it's just such a huge taboo that both sides are way too embarassed to discuss it. The other thing is that the parents expect their kids to learn about sex in the real world and on tv and they do but they mostly get confusing and incomplete information.

[Sapphire]

You would be wrong. It's simply not true in all cases... I personally know people from good families, great parents, and they still fuck up just like everyone else. It's simply not ALL of their fault... people can only do so much; the rest is putting faith on the kid you raised properly and pray that he ends up alright.

Of course it's not true in all cases. Hell, I know a kid from a great family who faked his own suicide because of an ex-girlfriend. In the previous case I DO blame the parents, but that doesn't mean I blame the parents of the suicidal kid I knew. That's not what I was implying.

In the matter of people are the result of how they are raised, I wasn't trying to say that the parents are 100% responsible. Though they are a big part, I also believe it's the culture, their education, society, other people, etc. I think that every experience that people have factors into the people who they are today.

Now that doesn't change the fact that if you have parents that don't care to teach you what is right and wrong, or instill ANY logical values are not to blame. Because I think they are.

[Abdula]

Well the parents should talk about sex with their kids but it's just such a huge taboo that both sides are way too embarassed to discuss it. The other thing is that the parents expect their kids to learn about sex in the real world and on tv and they do but they mostly get confusing and incomplete information.

No sensible parent thinks sex is a taboo topic or wants their kids to learn about it from other people or worse yet television. Since they have a kid in the first place its proof enough that the parents know about sex, the subject is probably only taboo from the perspective of the child which is where I think you're speaking from.

@ Sapphire. Really, how is that gonna work, you think you're parents can stop you from doing anything. As in the examples you gave, all you talked about is if you did this your parents would do that to you and this to you so they basically controlled your life based on the fear of the consequences of your actions. There are some kids out there who just don't care about the consequences and do whatever the hell they please so like I said before it isn't anyone else's fault other than the kids themselves.

That last little story you wrote sounded like two sets of people I know one would be my girlfriends family and despite growing up with them she didn't turn out anything like them or one of my best friends I went to highschool with when she was 15 her mom was 30 and her grandmother was 45 but she isn't anything like them and she certainly doesn't have any kids. So you guys could throw around blame all you want in the end it comes down to choices.

[Archangel]

No i can guarantee you that the parents don't want to have that conversation any more than the kids do but they still do it because they love them. The subject of sex is and will always be taboo for all ages.

[Sapphire]

@ Sapphire. Really, how is that gonna work, you think you're parents can stop you from doing anything. As in the examples you gave, all you talked about is if you did this your parents would do that to you and this to you so they basically controlled your life based on the fear of the consequences of your actions. There are some kids out there who just don't care about the consequences and do whatever the hell they please so like I said before it isn't anyone else's fault other than the kids themselves.
No I'm not afraid of punishment because I wouldn't do stupid things for the sheer logic that they are probably stupid. In fact I live life rather independently, and cringe at the thought of my parents controlling my life. I am sort of sad that many people live a life of horrible choices with no fear of consequences, but I will just wait patiently as they get what is coming to them. In my opinion at the very least people should refrain from doing things for fear of punishment, if not for the simple knowledge that it is wrong.


That last little story you wrote sounded like two people I know one would be my girlfriends family and despite growing up with them she didn't turn out anything like them or one of my best friends I went to highschool with when she was 15 her mom was 30 and her grandmother was 45 but she isn't anything like them and she certainly doesn't have any kids. So you guys could throw around blame all you want in the end it comes down to choices.
Okay, but too bad if you are born surrounded by bad choices then you are left to fend for yourself, with little to no distinction as a child to what is right or what is wrong (I am not referring to who you just talked about, I am just saying in general)

In the end it's all a matter of opinion, so I'm not going to force anyone ot agree with me, it's just a matter of my opinion.

[Buffalobiian]

No I'm not afraid of punishment because I wouldn't do stupid things for the sheer logic that they are probably stupid. In fact I live life rather independently, and cringe at the thought of my parents controlling my life. I am sort of sad that many people live a life of horrible choices with no fear of consequences, but I will just wait patiently as they get what is coming to them. In my opinion at the very least people should refrain from doing things for fear of punishment, if not for the simple knowledge that it is wrong.


I totally agree here. In early life, the closest things children interact with are family and media. Kids played with parents and watched TV all day. A lot of that lays the foundation for later thinking. Sure, when kids interact at school more and listen more and more to their friends instead of their parents, it has less and less effect, until the parent's influence is almost obsolete by early teens time. Question is, how much influence you can impart and maintain during those critical years. As Sapphire said, those kids will start off knowing what their parent's expectations are, and fear the consequence of deviating from it. Later on they find out as they watch their peers fall down in life one by one why their parents did that. They might not like the method. I didn't. But they will at least be thankful for the results it brought. When they reach parenthood, they'll find out there IS no other method pretty much.

[Board of Command]

It's hard to deny that some kids are inherently different. This is something inmate that goes beyond social influences such as family and peers. Different kids need different kinds of treatments, and that's up to the discretion of the parents. Some parents do it right, some do it wrong. It all depends on what the child is like on the inside, and how well the parents understand their children.

I think the government telling parents what they can't do is unjustified in this sense. I believe the end justifies the means in this situation.

[Chiodos]

The effects also should considering not just how they connect to the child but how themself are.

If their in their own little own world...

[Assertn]

In that case lets just accept the iraq war and let them keep killing each other because while bush is in power there's nothing any of us can do about it.

Just because they say it's normal that doesn't make it right junior
Well now you are presuming to know how the world should and shouldn't be.
Who are you to say what's right and wrong?

[Animeniax]

Well he IS The Archangel. Kind of self-explanatory why he's so high and mighty.

[Archangel]

Well now you are presuming to know how the world should and shouldn't be.
Who are you to say what's right and wrong?

Don't really have to be all that smart, just have a litle common sense and you'll realize that that kind of behavor just isn't right.

[XanBcoo]

I think you misunderstood. Especially with the Iraq example, he's telling you not to project your opinion as "the way things should be". You yourself are not the judge of right and wrong.