Gundam 00 Episode 17

[TheBladeChild]

http://bt.shinsen-subs.org/%5BShinsen-Subs%5D_Kidou_Senshi_Gundam_00_-_17_%5B0A8CFD92%5D.avi.torrent

here it is

Edit: Nena would be one of my fav chars in this series next to Wang Liu-Mei if only she would stop with the peace sign thing, it just kinda annoys me.

[DDBen]

alright I must know whats the secret to downloading from shinsen there torrents are always slower then dirt for me until your about 5 days in. Its the only subbing group I have this issue with and its every single file they release so unless your all just using IRC how on earth do you get any decent download speed from those guys?

[TheBladeChild]

Lol i know there slow, which is why I dont download from them. I just watch gundam 00 from crunchyroll.

[Yukimura]

IRC all the way, why share when you can leech? Plus Shinsen has more bots than any other group and all of them tend to average decent (300-500kb/s depending on traffic) it's not the 800-1000 KB/s I'm used to but it's nothing to scoff at. It's too bad they have such a good distribution system but such meager fansubs.

[rockmanj]

Saji is such a loser...But interesting developments. I think Graham might be my second favorite character, due to his sense of duty and the fact that he has doubts about his abilities. It makes him seem a bit complex.

[Ryllharu]

Well this was a very dense episode. A lot going on everywhere, and many questions all around.

The biggest:
- What does Jupiter have to do with the development of Gundams? In what way does orbit around Jupiter necessitate the creation of a solar furnace, and why do the Throne engines look and function so differently? It seems like this is the key that enabled Professor Aifman to figure out what Schenberg's real goal is.

It makes me wonder if Schenberg's real goal was to unify the earth to get into deep space. One extension of the Fermi Paradox theory believes that a species has a high probability of killing itself off shortly (within a few centuries) after achieving spaceflight or will master those self-destructive tendencies and thrive for billions of years. (source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox#It_is_the_nature_of_intelligent_life _to_destroy_itself))
To me, this seems like the most likely scenario.

It seems like Johan is a pretty cool-headed guy, and probably the only one of the Thrones worth giving a damn about. Nena is cute and all, a Rie Kugimiya (Shana) character with curves for once, but she seems incredibly psychotic. She plays off being cute, but becomes incredibly angry when Setsuna rebukes her. Then there is Michael, the easiest character to hate...ever. I don't even want to see him get blasted away in his mobile suit. I want Lockon to snipe his head clean off, the old fashioned way. Though I would settle for Hallelujah using the Nasty Scissors on his Gundam. Graham beating him down with his clearly inferior Overflag wouldn't be too bad either...

Though I did get a laugh when he said he stalk Tieria if "it" were a girl.

Then there is Nena inside Veda, something we only thought Tieria could really do. What was she doing in there? Sumeragi seemed to get the hint though, and recommended that he information on the Thrones shouldn't go into Veda, which seems to apparently be a public access computer now.

Finally, we get something useful out of the "normal" folks. Saji is still a pussy, Louise taking off gives us all an ominous feel (thanks to her crying in the ED, and the preview for next time).

But the real important thing seems to be Kinue (Saji's sister if anyone forgot what her name was). She seems to be onto something. Something big. I think that she will be the one to figure out what Schenberg's real goal is, now that Aifman is dead. Either that or she will uncover something about the Observers, or other huge things about the Thrones.

[Yukimura]

Indeed, the plot thickens. It's a bit depressing though since things seem to be shaping up in the most predictable way possible. Throne is apparently working for the 'mysterious organization' that has evil goals of Solar System domination. There's some deep dark secret connected to the past and it will necessitate an ideological split bewteen the main cast and new cast members.

I think what will keep things interesting is the reactions of the three powers while this struggle is going on, Soma/Sergi, Ali, and of course the nible Grahm are the only things that could really make this show stand out from just another action series with a drama backdrop.

All that said I am very excited to find out what it is that Eifman was postulating. The only special thing about Jupiter is it's gravity and large supply of hydrogen, but maybe there's something that happens periodically in Jupiter's atmosphere that would allow a solar furnace to be produced.

[animus]

I guess we're gonna see next episode how Saji and Louise are gonna be involved with the Meisters I guess. I'm guessing the Throne Gundams attack Spain, injure Louise, and kill her parents.

[Darknodin]

OK, every week, the Overflags seem cooler. (this and their pilots are way better than the Gundam pilots... especially considering, one hit from a Gundam gun destroys any suits while they seem to be able to withstand fire for a while...). Also, i am starting to like Setsuna too now. he's a consistent character, a bit like Graham is (only less talktative).

but the preview!!!!! can't wait for next week!

[TheBladeChild]

IRC all the way, why share when you can leech? Plus Shinsen has more bots than any other group and all of them tend to average decent (300-500kb/s depending on traffic) it's not the 800-1000 KB/s I'm used to but it's nothing to scoff at. It's too bad they have such a good distribution system but such meager fansubs.

I tried that last night, but they had only 3 bots serving episode 17 and the queue was long.

[Rickbee]

If one of us feels the need 2 take the time we can make a group on stage6 and have alot getter quality then crunchyroll.

[TheBladeChild]

Then there is Michael, the easiest character to hate...ever. I don't even want to see him get blasted away in his mobile suit. I want Lockon to snipe his head clean off, the old fashioned way. Though I would settle for Hallelujah using the Nasty Scissors on his Gundam. Graham beating him down with his clearly inferior Overflag wouldn't be too bad either...


Did you forget Frey?

[Ryllharu]

OK, every week, the Overflags seem cooler. (this and their pilots are way better than the Gundam pilots... especially considering, one hit from a Gundam gun destroys any suits while they seem to be able to withstand fire for a while...).
That seems to just be one of the aspects of the mobile suits. You can break them down into five or six groups.

- Gundams
- Throne Gundams
- Overflags
- the Tieren Taozi
- older generation mobile suits (I'm including the new AEU suits that Patrick and Al-Serges pilot because they were weak from the beginning, rather than separating them.)

The Taozi and the Overflags were created in response to the Gundams, so I include them in the "current generation" mobile suits. We'll simplify things by using the Gundams as a baseline.

First, the Overflags. Time and time again, Graham has at least been on par with many of the Meistars. He is unable to really damage them, but he shows off the true asset of the Overflag, speed. A properly piloted Overflag, apparently based on the technology of a jet fighter, specializes in speed. It has weaker weaponry, can't endure as much damage as a Gundam can, but definitely shows off it's capabilities as the most maneuverable and fastest mobile suit type (excluding the Thrones).

Next there is Soma's Tieren Taozi. Specially made for Super Soldiers to pilot, the Taozi has also demonstrated where it shines, survivability. The Taozi is durable. She's been blasted by the Gundams, recently hit very hard by the Thrones, and consistently takes a battering. Yet, the most damage to it has been a few big holes in her shoulder armor and the loss of an arm or a leg. The only thing that's really been hurt is Soma's pride. The Taozi is equal to the Gundams in survivability, and she doesn't even have GN particle shields.

The Gundams are a good mix of both of these, but add in a lot more firepower. They're slower than the Overflags, probably equal to the Taozi in durability and speed, but can kick a lot more ass than Soma's little peashooter. Defensively, they are alright, but that seems to have more to do with the GN particles and less to do with their main body armor. Dynames' wings, Virtue's frame on top of Nadleeh, seem to be the exceptions rather than the rule. Exia took a decent amount of damage in Azadistan when he wasn't fighting back. Nothing serious, but that was from the crappiest mobile suits in the whole series.

Then there are the Throne Gundams. They seem to combine everything that the Taozi and Overflags can do, but match that with excessive firepower. They outmatch the Gundams on nearly every angle. They're faster, stronger, can take more hits, and when they combine as we saw in this episode, completely surpass even Virtue's firepower.

Other than the Thrones, each of the types focus on one thing, speed, survivability, or firepower.


Did you forget Frey?
I had to look it up, but I obviously would never have made the connection. The last Gundam I watched was G.

[TheBladeChild]

Oh sorry didnt realize that you didnt watch GSD.

Edit: GS

[animus]

Frey wasn't in GSD.

[Ryllharu]

It gave me a good deal of trouble on wikipedia. It's a romanization difference.

Furei Arusutā

Frey ~ Flay

[Darknodin]

I don't entirely agree... the Thrones do not seem superior to the regular Gundams. i mean, not in the abilities that the Gundams already have.

Dynames is more accurate than Ein (and really, the Mega GN gun is not, at least as we had been shown, more powerful than Virtue's cannon... it also takes two gundams to activate). Dynames also has more range than Ein.

We don't know much about #3

and Zwei seems all around weaker than any of the Gundams. if it wasn't for the Fangs, it would most probably have gotten defeated by the Taozi or the Overflags.

They sure as hell do not seem faster than the Enacts or the Flags (or Exia for that matter).

their advantages come in their special abilities

[Ryllharu]

Ein was described as having an even longer range than Dynames. Episode 16. It's shots are more powerful on average (except for maybe Dynames' 20-second charge, orbital range, emphasis on special shot). Sure, Dyanmes can shoot a powerful shot like that, and at longer range, but Ein's regular shot does it faster, farther, and with more power than Dynames' regular shot.

As for accuracy, I think that is entirely dependent upon the pilot. Lockon is a trained (presumed militant) sniper, I doubt we can say the same for Johan.

I might be able to give you the comment on Virtue. Virtue did produce a similar-powered shot in an attempt to create an escape route, but it debilitated Virtue for 3 minutes. By charging Ein with Nena's Throne, Drei, they produced a shot they could sweep and cover a lot more ground. We've only seen Virtue brace itself and fire a straight blast. Perhaps the damage cone was larger, but sweeping a giant beam seems to be a lot more "powerful" to me.

The fact that Zwei has fangs at all make it powerful. From my understanding, Fangs/DRAGOON/bits are the most overpowered weapon in the Gundam Universes. It doesn't matter how good it is without them, it already has them. It also has a huge blade, similar to Exia's, but we haven't seen it use that at all.

As for speed, I'll have to give that to you for now, but only because we haven't seen anything but Overflags go after them (which are already fast). We also haven't seen Drei do anything but a stealth field and a charge up. But remember that Gundams use the GN particles as propulsion in flight. If Drei has that many nozzles, and can produce that many GN particles, Nena's Throne can probably move incredibly fast too.


their advantages come in their special abilities
That was the exact same thing you could say about the Gundams in comparison to the old generation Mobile Suits that existed before the Taozi and Overflags.

[Chiodos]

Since this is "just" episode 17, I'm still wondering when the others will ahold a Gundam. And when that time comes it will, maybe, come in three, considering it's me "magic number" and all.

But wont that then throw like....too many characters in the show but no depths?

And Graham just gets cooler and cooler ^^! Yay!!11

Also, when the second season is here, I'm expecting a major upgrade on the CB gangs Gundams, if it turns up that the Throne ones are evil....wich they probalby are in the end...more model kits for sale, I guess.

[Kraco]

If we still see no nukes after this episode, I'll just put this series down to have been written by the same people who write the plots of children's stories. The CB after this episode isn't anymore an organization that tries to prevent wars but one that started a war, and against the most advanced super power, no less. However, the overflags are still so inferior that I doubt even finally swithing to AP rounds would help them. So, it needs to be nukes unless they want to go down like sheeps. And considering we are talking about the nation (at its core anyway) that is the only one ever to have used nukes in the past in a war, I don't see why they wouldn't resort to them again. I would like to see how a Throne Gundam survives a nuclear explosion...

According to Ryllharu's logic Ali is the best pilot in this series so I doubt we have yet seen everything he has to offer, either. Although now that we got the real villains in, I'm not sure what kind of role they could have for a minor dirty work subcontractor villain like Ali anymore. I don't deem it very likely others would like to cooperate with him, either. After all, he wasn't even officially involved in the big three nations operation of the past eps but was sent in unofficially, as an extra measure, and I wonder if the active AEU HQ even knew of him at all.

[rockmanj]

I thought he was an AEU officer...just like an undercover one.

[masamuneehs]

okay episode.

Can someone tell me what was going on with the Haros? Seriously, Lockon's unit was fucking bleating out to his "brother" about "your memories" and nobody, nobody, nobody goes and looks into it! Come on people! That was one of the most awkwardly comic moments I've seen in a mecha show.

Jupiter.
Bad people come from Jupiter. It's also associated in my head with Zeus / Jupiter, the supposed "king of the Gods" and then that's where the Thrones of Celestial Being have their roots... Not a good sign. More plot via Haros.

Alejandro Corner's creepiness is confirmed. Livonze looks more and more to me like an 11th hour- out of the blue- late series plot twist...

Overflags are cool. Fucking old scientist guy dying without telling anyone about the connection to the Jupiter project really puts the odus on Sagi's reporter sister. The Union, as Kraco said, better retaliate with some serious shit.

Throne psycho Mihael is getting on my nerves, even though I did laugh when he made that crack about Tieria. But, still, that's something you just don't say, because it is a guy. Well, sorta. Half a guy? I really don't want to think about it.

Did anyone catch Throne leader Johan wearing short shorts in one scene, or was that just some funky part of his uniform that he had on?

Nena's only good scene was when she got mad at Setsuna and threatened him. that was good stuff. Otherwise she's forgetable big tittied, up-beat, sugary sweet looking but don't forget she's probably evil, anime stereotype. However, she might have the both-gender-sickness too (or just be another plot device enhanced human), because Tieria implied she shouldn't have been able to get into Veda's terminal like that...

Sumeragi is a dumb bitch.
You do not let someone you don't know just walk around your ship. You send someone with them as an escort. Goddamnit you stupid bitch, even Nena was smart enough to make a beeline for the Ptolemy's Veda terminal and probably rape you dry for info while the Thrones gave them hardly anything in the way of information.

[rockmanj]

Yea, I don't know what Sumeragi was thinking, unless it was a ploy to keep them busy while the mechanic guy checked out the Throne Gundam (I'm guessing that was her plan). But it doesn't seem like they were there for that long, that he could do a thorough inspection of a giant freaking robot (don't know if anyone remembers that; he made a 'secret' report).
And I wonder if they will keep up not filing reports with Veda. I think she knew Nena (or possibly other people) has/ve some links with Veda. I guess we'll find otu soon enough.

[Mhalador]

okay episode.
Nena's only good scene was when she got mad at Setsuna and threatened him. that was good stuff. Otherwise she's forgetable big tittied, up-beat, sugary sweet looking but don't forget she's probably evil, anime stereotype. However, she might have the both-gender-sickness too (or just be another plot device enhanced human), because Tieria implied she shouldn't have been able to get into Veda's terminal like that...

Was thinking about that too. She does share the big and yellow eyes like Al' and Soma.

[Gunslinger_BlaQ]

How about this:

The original solar furnace technology was developed on or around Jupiter, presumably because of either the increased gravity or the nature of the gases surrounding the planet. During early-stage testing, an accident occurred which resulted in the destruction of the ship/station shown in the pre-opening portion of ep. 17 (if it's a ship, it's odd that the pieces of it floating in space, in my mind, could be assembled as Paptimus Scirocco's ship, the Jupitrus). Cue the two dudes who show up to raid the computers... they find what ends up being Nena's Haro 80yrs later... they even openly mention that it's a data storage unit of some sort...

so...

some separate faction takes the early test data on the Solar Furnaces and GN particles and continue research on their own, in secretive competition with CB, thus resulting in a slightly different final product mobile suit (Thrones).

THEN...

they send in their own "Meisters", claim they're part of CB, since the organization is so entrenched in secrecy that even the people IN the group don't know who's in it... and use CB's political and war momentum to move toward their own, more evil goals...

---

would explain a rift in ideologies between Thrones and CB... as well as the difference in Gundam designs...

just a rough theory...

[TheBladeChild]

Pretty well thought out theory.Cept for the on Jupiter part but then again it is supposed to be 300 years in the future so it is possible that they might have the technology to have found a way for at least unmanned machines to perform experiments on the surface of Jupiter.

[Gunslinger_BlaQ]

if you compare where mankind is at now, in terms of space exploration, the possibility that they'd have achieved travel to other planets in a bit more than two hundred years from now doesn't seem like much of a stretch.

most of the hindrance on current space exploration is financial. that could quickly be overcome by a group of coordinated nations funding a space effort, or... even better, an extremely wealthy private organization with a singly-directed goal of space exploration and colonization... especially if that private organization had access to the most brilliant scientific minds of their time... and didn't Saji's sister make reference to scientists disappearing, starting at some certain date after the Celestial Being found vanished?

what if this other faction's (Thrones) goal were similar to Neo Zeon or other such groups... trying to move humanity away from the confines of their single planet and allowing them, as a species, to evolve further in space...

[Ryllharu]

I was almost positive the disappearance of the scientists was supposed to imply that the Gundams were being developed for centuries, nothing to do with advanced space flight (beyond the Ptolmiaos)

I agree with some of the rest.

It does seem more like the core CB has the idea of looking outward to space, but the Thrones (especially that name) gives me the feeling they only want to dominate Earth with Gundam technology.

[Buffalobiian]

How about this:

The original solar furnace technology was developed on or around Jupiter, presumably because of either the increased gravity or the nature of the gases surrounding the planet. During early-stage testing, an accident occurred which resulted in the destruction of the ship/station shown in the pre-opening portion of ep. 17 (if it's a ship, it's odd that the pieces of it floating in space, in my mind, could be assembled as Paptimus Scirocco's ship, the Jupitrus). Cue the two dudes who show up to raid the computers... they find what ends up being Nena's Haro 80yrs later... they even openly mention that it's a data storage unit of some sort...

so...

some separate faction takes the early test data on the Solar Furnaces and GN particles and continue research on their own, in secretive competition with CB, thus resulting in a slightly different final product mobile suit (Thrones).

THEN...

they send in their own "Meisters", claim they're part of CB, since the organization is so entrenched in secrecy that even the people IN the group don't know who's in it... and use CB's political and war momentum to move toward their own, more evil goals...

---

would explain a rift in ideologies between Thrones and CB... as well as the difference in Gundam designs...

just a rough theory...

I like this theory, (finally lost patience after shinsen released their HD.) I guess this episode shakes our thought that Veda was a computerized version of the founder. The professor found the link though, as soon as he realized the reason behind the manned mission to Jupiter, which suggests that the company that funded that exploration project had some dark intentions.

Also, when Sumeragi scanned Throne's ship, they confirmed 4 solar furnaces. Perhaps thie flagship really does have one after all, but I'm still going with the fact that each number is a GN drive, so #4 and #5 make two somehow.

edit: has anybody figured out what the professor meant by topological dects or something?

[DeathscytheVII]

If we still see no nukes after this episode, I'll just put this series down to have been written by the same people who write the plots of children's stories. The CB after this episode isn't anymore an organization that tries to prevent wars but one that started a war, and against the most advanced super power, no less. However, the overflags are still so inferior that I doubt even finally swithing to AP rounds would help them. So, it needs to be nukes unless they want to go down like sheeps. And considering we are talking about the nation (at its core anyway) that is the only one ever to have used nukes in the past in a war, I don't see why they wouldn't resort to them again. I would like to see how a Throne Gundam survives a nuclear explosion...

Somehow I doubt we'll be seeing nukes. Not only is it a waste of military resources, but the amount of damage you will incur on your own territory is not worth the effort of taking down four (now seven) suits. That and the fact that they will probably be spread out throughout the world will mean that the each power will potentially start a nuclear war with the other if they bomb gundams outside their zones of influence. Not to mention that the world opinion will go against the leaders that authorize this. And if this series has highlighted anything, it is that the leaders in this anime are realistic politicians, who make their decisions based on what can expand their power base and interests the most while keeping it within the agreed upon 'unwritten rules', i.e the balance of power and zones of influence of their respective rivals.

And Although CB is aiming to end war, the major factions know that they aren't crazy enough to take down a country (well not counting the thrones), because what ensues from that? more civil war.

This isn't a children's story, its political calculation by leaders who have their own interests and reputation to protect. Dropping a nuke will certainly do more harm than good for them.


.....

That said, I want graham acre to take down a gundam and for Ali to show Michael what a true psychotic badass is really like. Best situation for me is that Ali steals one of the thrones after outpiloting one of the siblings XD

[Kraco]

The Throne has a ship in the space. They fly regularly in space. It's true the EMP from a tactical nuke might fry a bunch of satellites should they take out a Gundam in space but that's about it.

And what choices do they have? You might think it's likely that they do go down like sheeps but I haven't gotten the kind of an impression from the three super powers in this series. Until now everything was fine for them as long as they didn't send offensive troops to wage war anywhere or didn't breach the space armament deal. But now it looks like they don't need to do anything extraordinary and suddenly Gundams might appear anywhere and destroy property and kill military and civilian personnel.

I very much doubt neither the public nor the politicians want to let that become the norm. When the terrorists attacked the WTC, the USA quickly took Taliban out of power in Afghanistan and ultimately occupied Iraq. So, real world examples say something is going to change now.

Still, as much as I talked about nukes, I wouldn't actually mind of they only used conventional weaponry. But this series itself has shown that when the super powers actually use good plans and numbers to take down Gundams, then the plot uses the boring deus ex Gundam method and renders their efforts futile. So what the heck are they supposed to do anymore?

[Chiodos]

Somehow, getting their own machine that are comparible to the Gundams? 'Cuz, werent there a professor that supplied Grahams machine and the other Flags? If they intend to, they have a slight chance to upgrade them even more. It's just up to the damn pilot not to do a Joshua.

And we already know that Graham is already good enough with his machine, though the restrain he gets while using it, as we've seen.

So, when the time comes, can he even pilot a Gundam?

I'm also wondering if there are more like Soma, there can't be just her. Every country has it's black sheep....so ^^!

[Kraco]

Wasn't that professor just killed by the Throne? And I don't think this series would make much sense if the super powers suddenly developed their own machines comparable to Gundams. In the end logic would dictate the solar furnace is the decisive factor. We have seen the Gundams can take a lot of punishment without a scratch, but that's more likely due to the fact the power output of the solar furnace can lift much more/heavier armor than that the CB would magically have also better materials than the three powers. That would be too ridiculous even for this epitome of ridiculousness series.

One (additional) thing that puzzles me about the world of this series, though, is the lack of variety in the resources of the super powers. Sure, there are the latest mobile suits, that makes sense, but surely they should have variable configurations as well as a huge diversity of different kind of weapons to use with them. I mean, we are talking about countries/alliances in the future that are much larger than the current ones. And it's not like the USA would be flying with the same fighter with the exact same missiles and bombs during every mission, nor do the ground troops use only one vehicle with the same gun to drive everywhere. Not even the individual soldiers all have the same equipment and a weapon.

This series is seriously missing here, and pretty much the only notable exception here is the strange centaur addon Ali was using against Setsuna, and maybe those suppression shields the other group was using. But surely that's not nearly enough. They should throw a hundred different types of weapons and tricks against the Gundams, especially if they are trying to avoid using nukes.

[Chiodos]

I can't see that happening, givin' 'extra weoponary' to ordinarie machines when it looks like they only add those stuff to the Gundams, or such machines that has a pilot with a name.

Considering Ali, it just seems that they've just thrown a "past-character" just to have the main character someone hardly to fight against. Sure, the factor has been used many times over and over but in this serie it was forced bluntly, seeing him with this "remarkable skills and talent" using a non-Gundam machine, though an customized one. I mean, wtf did he get those 1347 skills? It also supports the wierd theory "only crazy beings may be able to operate machines"...

Wich provide more to the "no giving weaponary to a random unit", as we've only seen ppl such as Soma, or Graham, having a customized unit.

So for me, your theory seems out of reach, considering this serie has no freakin' deep...
wich even makes this must worse for me considering I'm a huge Gundam fan :' <!

[Yukimura]

Kraco's point does have Gundam historical significance though. In both the U.C universe and the CE universe (SEED) there were lots of different mecha types for different situations, water based mecha, land based 4-legged mecha and treaded tank-like mecha, and mecha with the ability to fly etc. In the Anno Domini universe Each of the three super powers seems to only have 1 fairly versatile suit that I can only guess are meant to be jacks of all trades. Either the production team decided to try and save money by reducing the number of different types of mecha to have to animate or they're trying to make a statement that in the future battles will generally be fought by opposing multi purpose weapons platforms that are meant to handle any situation decently well.

Even in the modern world it's usually preferred to try and get the most use out of the same things. Like all the variantion the basic hummer chassis, or the standard military truck frame that can be used to mount anything from a mobile command center to a missile battery, to a radar station. Reusing parts of designs is good for costs and maintenance, though it can of course bite you in the ass if the base design has flaws.

[masamuneehs]

I think the powers have specialized mobile suits. did you see that mobile armor Ali had? Supposedly leftover from some previous war? That looks like some real deal shit to me.

I don't think they'll resort to nukes in the first half of this one. Maybe not even in the second.

[Buffalobiian]

Something interesting I found.

NASA eyes dark energy

From correspondents in Washington

February 07, 2008 04:45am


THE US space agency is planning a mission to better understand a mysterious form of energy in the cosmos and an ambitious unmanned journey to the outer solar system, NASA officials said.

NASA would initiate seven new science missions in fiscal year 2009 that starts October 1 under the budget President George W. Bush proposed to Congress this week.

NASA's proposed $US17.6 billion ($19.65 billion) budget includes $US4.4 billion ($4.9 billion) for science missions.

"In fact, we have more new starts in this budget for science than in the last three years combined," Alan Stern, who leads NASA's science missions, said today.

NASA is planning to begin work on a mission to send a spacecraft to either Jupiter or Saturn - the two biggest planets in the solar system - with the idea of orbiting one of three moons of these two outer solar system giants.

Launch is seen by 2017, with the mission cost pegged at $US2.1 billion ($2.3 billion).

Two of the three moons under consideration orbit Jupiter: Europa, which boasts an ice-covered ocean that some scientists think is a candidate for harboring some form of life; and Ganymede, the largest moon in our solar system.

The third option is Saturn's moon Titan, the second-biggest moon in the solar system.

"By the end of this year, we will have it down to our final choice," Mr Stern said.

NASA also is planning a mission involving the launch by 2015 of an Earth-orbiting satellite to study dark energy, a mysterious force thought to cause the universe to expand at an accelerated pace.

Scientists think dark energy makes up roughly 70 per cent of the universe but do not understand its nature.

Another science mission being planned envisions a spacecraft being launched in 2015 to study the Solar Corona, a region around the sun where the solar wind originates.

"The latter half of the next decade is going to revolutionise our knowledge of how the solar wind is accelerated, the corona is heated, and the inner workings of the star that makes life possible on Earth," Mr Stern said.

"This will be the first mission to ever dive down into the solar corona - much, much closer than Mercury orbits, and to places where the thermal emissions are just hellacious."

NASA also is planning new robotic missions to the moon and Earth science missions.

source:http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23173410-5003402,00.html

Also,

Outer Planets Flagship Mission

The next Outer Planets Flagship mission will consist of a multi-national effort to explore Europa, the
Jupiter system, or Titan. SMD plans to downselect to a single mission destination around October
2008. The mission will launch in 2016-2017, arrive at its destination in about 2021-2022, and spend
at least three years conducting its primary mission.

reference: NASA Fiscal Year 2009 Budgets Estimate p174 (http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/210019main_NASA_FY09_Budget_Estimates.pdf)





Now, to find a individual in NASA by the name of Aeolia Schenberg

[Ryllharu]

I'm also wondering if there are more like Soma, there can't be just her. Every country has it's black sheep....so ^^!
Don't you remember? Allelujah killed them all when CB invaded the HRL station and destroyed the Super Solider research facility. Sergei arrested the scientist asshole for hiding the information about Kyrios's pilot as a result. Soma commented about it in this past episodes.


One (additional) thing that puzzles me about the world of this series, though, is the lack of variety in the resources of the super powers. Sure, there are the latest mobile suits, that makes sense, but surely they should have variable configurations as well as a huge diversity of different kind of weapons to use with them. I mean, we are talking about countries/alliances in the future that are much larger than the current ones. And it's not like the USA would be flying with the same fighter with the exact same missiles and bombs during every mission, nor do the ground troops use only one vehicle with the same gun to drive everywhere. Not even the individual soldiers all have the same equipment and a weapon.
You don't understand much about military contractors and the direction the armed forces worldwide are going. Which is expected. Unless you are a) In the military or know someone who is. b) Work for a defense contractor. c) Work for or know people in the government.

The goal is to make everything cheaper, interchangeable (the big one), and multifunctional (like the JSF or interchangeable weapon mounts and rounds).

If Flags or Overflags are capable of doing the work of an Air Superiority Fighter as well as ground assaults, hence the transformation ability, the Union would not need another Mobile Suit Model.

Again, Gundam 00 is trying to keep as real-world as possible, and I think they are doing a really good job at it. 00 has mostly been about politics, economics, and small scale military strike-actions.

------------------------------
As a side note, someone in Japan's Science Ministry has been watching too much Gundam 00:
Japan's space agency planning space-based solar power arrays (http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/japans-space-agency-planning-space-based-solar-power-arrays/)

But this only reinforces my point of the writers trying to keep Anno Domini as real-world as possible.

[Darknodin]

Not only this... but the AEU Hellions were different suits. also, by this point in SEED, you hadn't seen much of the different types of suits.

[Kraco]

You don't understand much about military contractors and the direction the armed forces worldwide are going. Which is expected. Unless you are a) In the military or know someone who is. b) Work for a defense contractor. c) Work for or know people in the government.

The goal is to make everything cheaper, interchangeable (the big one), and multifunctional (like the JSF or interchangeable weapon mounts and rounds).

Give me a little bit more credit, man. I may not have been in a war (my home country was last time in a war in the WW II), but I do have a military leadership training.

And where exactly did I say they should have lots of different mobile suits? In fact I said the exact thing you oh-so-sagaciously said yourself. I said they should have different configurations. Like the latest 4th generation APC produced here in my home country: It's a modular platform that can be configured for a vast array of different missions, fitted with many different kinds of weapons or other equipment. But I fail to see anything like this in this series. They are just the same Flags (or Overflags) or Enacts or whatever those HRL hulks were called with their stupid same antipersonnel weapons that wouldn't penetrate a brick wall.

Whereas, incredibly ridiculously, like Chiodos said, the tiny terrorist organization, on the contrary, produces a very good array of totally different Gundams equipped with very innovative and effective weapons of even larger variety. And then we get yet another terrorist organization, even smaller than the previous one, possible, and they have, again, different Gundams and, surprise surprise, different yet equally deadly weapons for all of their units.

And you still fail to see what I am talking about, eh? The bloody super powers with their incomprehensible resources can't produce a single bloody weapon (in fact they only seem to produce a single type of weapon anyway) that would take down a Gundam, yet the terrorists have god alone knows how many different weapons that all take down mobile suits with a single hit unless they miss.

Give me a fucking break before you start to talk about where the armed forces our of world are going.

[Ryllharu]

Hold on, not so touchy.

I will admit that when I read your post I took,

"Sure, there are the latest mobile suits, that makes sense, but surely they should have variable configurations as well as a huge diversity of different kind of weapons to use with them."

As, "They should have many different types of suits (different kind of weapons to use) and use them all the time." So I will admit I didn't reread your post, and should have reviewed it more thoroughly before making my post.

But, that's exactly the point I was making. Celestial Being is still a disgustingly well financed organization. But it is small. They can spend an exorbitant amount of money on a handful of pilots. Each Gundam has tens of Billions of dollars (or Euros, or Trillions of Yen) invested into it an development costs. CB probably has the GDP of a larged-sized country given how long it has been around and how high-profile its members and donators seem to be. Wang LuiMei has three houses, jet, hover-limo, and two yachts. Making a Gundam is like making an aircraft carrier for a single person. When there are only 7 total pilots, it's not so ridiculous.

In contrast, the Union, the HRL and on a smaller scale the AEU has hundreds if not thousands of pilots. They can't be spending tens of Billions on a single-pilot machine. Cheaper is everything. They have to distribute the technology. Development also takes time. A lot of time. We have no idea how long the 7 Gundams have been in development. A fighter plane today usually takes a decade to create.

The Union professor was amazing to alter the Flag design that quickly to counter the Gundams as much as it does. I'm sure he had unlimited funding too. The HRL did the same thing with Soma's Tieren Taozi. And she has been genetically modified so that she won't die flying a modified suit. Both are modified versions of existing Mobile Suits. You can't make something new in so short a time frame.

[Kraco]

Doh. Gotwoot going offline ate my detailed post... And I'm not inclined to try to retype it.

Suffice it to say that whatever is true for the CB, should be true for the three powers as well. For one, the CB can't be that rich and well supplied (relatively) in order to remain unnoticed for such a long time. And in a world with three super powers the situation is similar to the cold war, which, if you dig your memories a little, was a period of huge investments and innovations in military technology in preparation for a possible third world war.

Even if the main powers rely on a multipurpose platform, which makes sense like you pointed out, it still doesn't mean they should also rely on only one pea shooter as the weapon. That makes zero sense. A weapon is somewhat cheaper to develop than a mobile suit and moreover a weapon has a pretty limited optimal purpose, especially nowadays. Logically thinking all of the three powers should have plenty of companies developing plenty of different kind of weapons to the military, trying to outwit each other to win contracts. But alas no, only the Gundams have any real weapons. The three powers have weapons hardly better than those we have nowadays, seemingly.

And no matter what you say, I won't ever believe the CB and Throne had budgets bigger than three super powers in a cold war. I'd rather believe three-eyed aliens from Andromeda brought them their fancy guns.

[Chiodos]

And no matter what you say, I won't ever believe the CB and Throne had budgets bigger than three super powers in a cold war. I'd rather believe three-eyed aliens from Andromeda brought them their fancy guns.

Wehn you point it out like that, it seems that they just left out a big plothole. Wich is ridicoulus, seeing how hard they want this serie to be close to reality as possible.

...but then again, when the ...uuh... Throne Gundam Number (something) used that GN-Particle field....well..

that's a bitching way to stomping on our toes.
Reality, my ass. Atleast makes sense ^^!

[masamuneehs]

Who knows how CB got it done? That's probably better left unexplained...

Honestly though, it is a bit ridiculuous that you guys are dissing the three powers' militaries so much. They can, with numbers, cornhole the Gundams. Also, one point that never turns into a valid point because it's a weak shounen animu is that the Gundam pilots are SUCK when compared to Gram, Soma, Sergei, Ali on the ground (except for probably stupid, sexy Lockon).

[Chiodos]

Tiera is more sexy than Lockon, but in terms of skill, well that's a another thing.

And if their going to use a massive army all the times against the Gundams the military will go breakdown after a while.
But maybe I'm turning a blind eye against the greatness of mass production.

[masamuneehs]

Tiera is more sexy than Lockon

I certainly beg to differ.

For me it's:

Hallelujah > Graham Acre > Ali Serges > Livonze > Setsuna > Alleljuah > Lockon > Johann Trinity > Patrick Colaswarr > the whimpy male ship operator of CB's Ptolemaios > Saji Crossroad > the buff male ship operator of CB's ship (not the mobile suit mechanic) > Mihael Trinity > Tieria (if he's a man, which is certainly up for dispute) > Alejandro Corner > Chinese girl's tuxedo mask manservant > Sergei > the two other OverFlag officers > CB's mobile suit mech expert > Billy Katagari > all the other male politicians > the US President > the old Union dead professor

in that order