Gundam 00 Episode 15

[hitokiriender]

Episode 15 by Shinsen Subs (http://bt.shinsen-subs.org/%5BShinsen-Subs%5D_Kidou_Senshi_Gundam_00_-_15_%5B235B6C7B%5D.avi.torrent)

[Kraco]

Well, the red particle emitting Gundams sure aren't any allies of the countries. I guess they were back-ups of the old Gundams.

I wonder how it's going to end up now. In this episode the super powers didn't fire a single armor piercing round, they only used what looked like antipersonnel rounds and grenades and HE bombs in order to wear out the Gundam pilots but retain the full structural integrity of the machines themselves, I guess to keep them totally functional for their laboratories.

However, now that they face even more Gundams and probably lost everything they gained with so big losses in this operation, I wonder if they are going to just say "to hell with them", and switch to APs and even tactical nukes just to get rid of the enemy. It doesn't look they can win anymore any other way. It's a bit unequal, after all, when the Gundam meisters gleefully slaughter their opponents but the pilots of the super powers aren't allowed to harm theirs.

[kpxiceboi]

Wow, that was intense. Pesonally, I don't see anything special about the gundam meisters. I guess it's too early, but I'm just wondering, what qualifies people as a meister?
I mean, we'll i guess Lock-on has his aim, and Sumeragi has his second personality, but what about Virtue and Sestuna? Can't wait to see what happens next now

[KrayZ33]

virtue is a fag (yet he looks the best in his combat-suit...lol) and setsuna is depressive....
i think you must be a retard to pilot a gundam... or something like that.

can't wait for Conclave-quality :(

[fireheart]

Honestly though after watching this episode am I the only one thinking that Sumeragi is either not completely loyal to CB or just stupid like no other. I mean hell she knew of the battle plan that the factions were using in order to capture the Gundams and she just sent all four of them straight in there even though they had 800 something mobile suits to attack them with. Unless those 3 suits were part of the plan worst case scenario to have them escape then at least it makes a bit more sense but even then it's a pretty damn stupid plan considering she just sent them to get shot at for what 15+ hours before any kind of back up arrived. Or rather have them go in there kill the terrorists and pray that they manages to escape the bombardment and suits they had waiting for when they would show up. Good plan indeed... they better have a logical explanation to the lack of plan that Sumeragi had other than endure and endure then try to escape.

[Kraco]

I hope Sumeragi got false plans. I mean, why on earth would military operation plans be given to some outsider in any case? The only logical explanation would be that they are too comfortable and overconfident in their Gundams or that Sumeragi's plans were based on false information and thus things didn't proceed at all like she thought.

[fireheart]

I don't see how the plans would be false at all since when she met up with the guy they talked about it briefly and the plan was basically to gather as much forces as possible and then wear the Gundam meistars out. But she commented herself in that what kind of military man he was for even sending her the plans from the start. And why they would be given to some outsider isn't exactly hard to imagine seeing she's not just any outsider, they obviously know each other from before, studied together or whatever since the professor knows her as well. And frankly it seems as if he's interested in Sumeragi mostly because of his comment after their meeting that it's ok as long as he can see her again so it's not exactly unfathomable that he'd send her the files. Also because of her former position as tactician or whatever it's called she could have valuable opinions on the plan as to things they should take into consideration. The fact that she happens to be on CB isn't something he could have known. And she did give some comments that there's too little information to be able to make a proper evaluation such as the fact that they don't know if there's only 4 Gundams.

And frankly it seemed like she sent them out there without any real plan whatsoever, just shot the terrorist and then escape. Virtue and Exia were after all there in order to help secure a escape route seeing as they weren't there to fight all the 800+ mobile suits and if they were then you'd think they would equip Exia with all his swords instead of just his basic equipment. In my opinion she failed horribly even worse than when they were up against just Sergei. Even if those three new Gundams were part of the plans she still fails horribly because it's a stupid idiotic plan from the start especially when she knew what their objective and plan was.

[Kraco]

None of that really matters. In the military you don't give classified data even to your mother unless she has a clearance. So, either the dude is being used by the military intelligence (assuming such a thing even exists in this series) or he's going to spend the next 20 years of his career in a prison, or he knew what he was doing and gave compromised information. Or the Gundam 00 script writers ate something quite different instead of their Matsutake.

Frankly, if I had to choose between compromised data or Sumeragi being brainless, I'd choose the former option. Although even that doesn't mean she would be redeemed, as it'd be hardly professional to base a whole operation on intelligence received from a dubious source...

[fireheart]

I agree it's unprofessional and probably would have him ended up in prison but seeing as realism isn't needed in anime I find it quite possible that the information was true, there was talk about that in the ep 14 thread wasn't there realism that is.

Think about it, do you honestly think that the information he gave her wasn't true or accurate? From what we knew from their talk they were gonna drag the fight on and on in order to wear the meistars out then capture them if it worked etc and after watching this episode that's exactly what they did. So I'd say whatever information he gave her was pretty damn accurate. Secondly it could have been used for plot reasons to make the two of them more clearly connected which is why any real military rules regarding the information is automatically thrown out the window. It doesn't make Sumeragi any less of an idiot for not using that information though, if she is professional then she would have taken into account that the information was real from the looks of it their plain and operation was not built around what to do if they all gang up and shot the crap out of us. And looking at it, it seemed quite possible that they had several possible plans if those two had made it out from the start I highly doubt that Virtue and Exia would just appear and walk away they probably had some kind of plan incase they weren't needed. So they should have had a plan on what to do incase that plan was real and they start shooting the crap out of them for 15 hours. Only thing I can think of is that she didn't want to base any operation or plans on any information she can receive from him but that's equally or even more stupid.

Edit: Found this which is suppose to be the meistars for the three new gundams eins, zwei and drei
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2237/02310561da3.jpg

[NeoBear]

thats......a relly big pic

[Maverick-DBZ-]

Can you make that a clickable link. You just ruined the whole forum layout!


This whole episode was intense I loved every moment or it. If that new Gundam didn't come in to save Setsuna at the last moment I got the feeling he might have gone berserk mode on "Gary Biaggi" lol!


Episode 15 is out by Conclave-Mendoi

HD x264 (http://bt.mymenclave.com/torrents/%5BConclave-Mendoi%5D_Mobile_Suit_Gundam_00_-_15_%5B1280x720_H.264_AAC%5D%5B2CEA655C%5D.mkv.tor rent)

SD x264 (http://bt.mymenclave.com/torrents/%5BConclave-Mendoi%5D_Mobile_Suit_Gundam_00_-_15_%5B704x400_H.264_AAC%5D%5BB5C5D87C%5D.mkv.torr ent)

[kpxiceboi]

Nice. Another Haro. Haroes are the best :D

[Yukimura]

Stupid plot disagreeing with the OP and my analysis/predictions. They may be on the same side but there's a still a chance the new and the old will end up having it out over something, wouldn't be the first time Gundam pilots ended up fighting against their original 'side'.

As to the Sumeragi being dumb, the only smart thing to do in that situation would have been to not go. They already knew it was a giant trap even without the lovestruck nerds plans, but they went anyway because stopping terrorists is part of what they do. Sumeragi apparently came up with several plans and contingencies to try and get them out, however when it's 4 vs 864 there isn't really viable solution because no matter where they might have gone the enemy could just throw more bodies at them to keep them pinned down.

I really didn't like the way the time kept skipping forward from an action standpoint, but it did a good job of showing things from a dramatic standpoint. Sumeragi and the rest of the crew weren't involved or keeping appraised of the situation at all, they were simply waiting for the meisters to make it out somwhow. Considering the amount of caring some of the crew have shown for particular meisters I am forced to conclude they were doing nothing because there was simply nothing they could do to help them but wait.

One thing that really bothers me though is Allelujah, why do they continue to use him knowing that one the people he might encounter on the battlefield can completely incapacitate him just by being nearby, now that's foolishness IMO.

[rockmanj]

So much to say...but I'll keep it brief, as always. Yea, like Yuki says, Allelujah is a huge liability in any mission that may involve the HRL, and thusly should not be included in any soirée that could possibly involve that world power. That being said, I think that it was a smart strategy to attack the human faculties of the meisters.

They may have super-ridiculous mobile suits, but they cant fight nature (speaking of that, i hope their suits have...facilities inside of them). And again, I have to give it to Lockon for having the coolest moment in the episode...when he snipes Joshua with the handgun...absolutely classic; especially how slowly the gun moves towards Joshua (remember..."He just LOVES sneak attacks"). And those new Gundams look sinister...with the red and black energy; kinda reminds me of brimstone and hellfire.

Something tells me that Sumeragi had some knowledge of this little deus ex machina coming into play, but I'm not sure why she would send her troops into that kind of duress. Also, was I the only one really annoyed by the Saji and Lousie thing at the beginning? Somebody needs to splash some water in that broad's face.

[ForteCross]

are you sure sumeragi is stupid? using that info is like setsuna saying he is a gundam maister... and not going to kill the terrorist contradicts the whole idea of CB.
i think that the three new gundams are part of CB, but are not in control of sumeragi, someone else's. and this someone just ordered them to save the 4 gundams as they werent going to destroy themselves... i still think yukimura was right, just that the 3 new suits know the real goals of CB, just like saji's sister said in chapter 14, and they are just using all the people we know of CB... and then CB gets divided in two groups...

[fireheart]

Think about it for a moment what would have been the point of dividing the Gundams into two like they did? More or less each of the Gundams had to fend for themselves the way the plan was executed, in what world is that a smart plan when you're facing 864 mobile suits? True they were cut of and were being bombarded all the time but hey they're Gundams and frankly it wouldn't have been to hard to actually try and met up instead of standing still and take a beating while shooting every now and then. As I pointed out it's just plain stupid to not equip Exia with what they've had, Exia had standard weaponry that he pretty much always have and not equipped like he was when they fought that war where ever against who ever it was. Of course it's a liability for CB seeing as he might drop the swords but hell I'd still wager on it's better to equip Exia to match his name. Secondly notice how Hallelujah doesn't even flinch or scream or anything while being bombarded but Allelujah does and mostly everyone. Meaning it was possible to keep you're head cool not scream and get a beating and actually fight back instead.

You may not find her stupid but I do, because here imo was a great chance to actually have them pull of some teamwork by helping each other and using tactics rather than the flimsy plan they had, ok secure a path smart but what if it gets compromised and they managed to launch that full out attack? Apparently it was stand still wait for a chance and then run like hell. In other news something I think would have been an obvious way of dealing with the terrorist would be to just have Lockon snipe them from space. If he can snipe from earth into space he should by all logical means be able the do the opposite of that. But no of course there's a time lag but looking at it the time lag isn't as long as Virtues recharge time and if he snipes them early on it wouldn't be a problem. Secondly seeing as Virtues big secret is already out it can't be against all rules to actually use it. Simply put seeing as they knew what they had for plan their counter plan really sucked and for that Sumeragi is plain stupid for not coming up with a better plan than that. And who says she has to use the exact information, she doesn't need to know every troop or what plan they're using it's enough to just use the information that they're all going to join and fight them. There's no specific information there that would reveal her as part of CB.

[Yukimura]

Remember how she kept commenting on how they'd probably switched to plan LetterNumber if it's taking this long. I think the whole point was that they kept trying to do stuff and the enemy was able to react and counter it by throwing more and more bodies at the problem. Since the Gundams could be detected by that communications field thing and carpet bombed there wasn't really anything they could do. No matter what exit vector they might have tried there would still be shit tons of mobile suits waiting to eat them alive. And since this series' Gundams can't simply ignore physical damage unles they're standing still and defending just flying through the bombardment was pretty much out as well.

[fireheart]

I disagree granted I haven't checked out mendoi-conclave release yet on what they said. However from what I got they went with B2 to secure a route for the others to escape, the whole point of Virtue charging and shooting of that beam. After that if it proceeded like expected then it should have gotten to E5 I think which seemed to mean that one of the suits would show up soon if she meant the three new ones or one of the meistars is hard to know but seeing as she said Allelujah right afterwards I'm gonna wage on that she meant him. Besides the three new Gundams didn't show up until at least 13 hours after she said that which isn't what I'd call soon. Also they never said anything about switching plans other than the beginning when they switched to B2 that Kyrios and Dynames should be arriving at the rendezvous point. And Sumeragi only said that judging from the time that it should have proceeded to E5, kinda like their phases was my take on it. No where does it mention anything about switching to any plan because it's taking so long.

None of which make it any better because they should have had a battle plan just incase they would have been forced to battle it out with all those troops. They shouldn't have been so stupid as to not realize that they might have to fight and as such a plan should have been made if something like that happened so that they don't get to worn out. And because they didn't have one I called Sumeragi stupid, granted who knows she might have had one but looking at it if that was part of the plan then she still fails and still stupid if it relied on those 3 new Gundams.

And it still doesn't address any of the other points I made for why the whole plan was stupid. Or the alternative method of dealing with the terrorists.

[Darknodin]

na... Fireheart.

she predicted exactly what happened. when she said "that suit" she meant the Taozi.

also, i really think the new Gundams are going to be the main antagonists of this show in the future (or whatever organization, group of CB they follow).

also, in my opinion, everything is going according to plan for CB. if the 7 Gundam manage to defeat 864 suits (or simply escape actually), it will be a HUGE blow for the non-CB (morale and resources wise). it'll basically be what happened with the HRL earlier on a greater scale. its... sublime.

[rockmanj]

Well, with the 3 other Gundams, its like what some people said earlier: there is a possiblity of CB having different "cells" that dont know the existence of each other and act independently of each other (for the most part). I think that this is an example of that.

[Yukimura]

When they went E5 I remember her saying switched, not moved. Switching plans mid battle is not the same as advancing in phases in the same plan. But who knows what she was thinking.

My point was that while it was remarkably stupid to go in the first place, they did go, and there was no way anyone could have planned a way out of that scenario with only what resources they had available. Calling someone stupid for not coming up with a plan to escape an inescapable situation is just unfair. I would agree that they should have tried to find another way to stop the terrorists but considering the ship was off at the asteroid base the only real option they had was to go within normal weapons range and take them out that way, thus making going a total gamble on the endurance of the pilots.

[Mhalador]

I'm going to have to agree with the multiple cell theory. The guy from the U.N. (don't know his name) mentioned he was going to talk to the other Surveyors, I'm guessing he might be the Surveyor of the new group of 3 Gundams and the Chinese girl would be the Surveyor of the current gundams.

[Naruto_RNG]

you're missing the point if she did use the info, none CB grp would of find out she has a connection to CB since the line used was non-secure and it could of been traced. I really don't c why either of them would be idiot cause if she had used it her identity would of been revealed, they might of have lost this battle but win at the same time cause they have a very big lead to CB.
anyway...
I loved this eps till that red gundam showed up. I was so pissed I wanted to punch something lol. So this new gundam pilot have a chance of being super soilders too right with the intro to dragoons beam weapons? I hope they're in odds with this veda dude.

[fireheart]

Sigh...

Naruto_RNG: I really luv how people read other posts properly before posting *sarcasm* so I'll just quote myself

"And who says she has to use the exact information, she doesn't need to know every troop or what plan they're using it's enough to just use the information that they're all going to join and fight them. There's no specific information there that would reveal her as part of CB."

The whole point that makes her stupid is that she didn't plan a counter attack or rather she should have devised a plan where the Gundams actually fight back in case of need which would have also increased their chance of survival unless any of you think standing still and getting shot at for 15 hours is the best plan ever because if you do I highly disagree. Like I said here was a chance for her to actually make a plan that uses the Gundams and teamwork instead of each of them doing their thing they could always work together, but gosh that is of course the most silly plan ever.

Yuki: Checked the episode just to make sure (conclave-mendoi) and nope she doesn't mention switching she said it should be proceeding from B4 to E5. That should mean I was correct in that she assumed it would to work like a charm. Also seeing as the ship was docked at an 300 kilometers from the middle point of earth and the moon also since Kyrios and Allelujah was onboard I highly doubt it'd be impossible to have moved the ship into a place where Dynames could have snipped from. Granted weather is a factor but hey they should be able to monitor that as well and seeing as it seemed quite sunny when the terrorists where gunned down I'd say it was quite possible.

Again my main point for why she was stupid is that she didn't devise a plan for attacking the HRL, Union & AEU incase they couldn't escape. Just hoping they would escape and not have a battle plan for what they should do if they couldn't is plain stupid and to naive when the opponent is just that much more.

Darknodin: Seems plausible enough for me since she never mentioned the name of any Gundams which I take it she would have. Only if it's as you say then she's even more stupid and if I was a meistar and survived that I'd beat the crap out of her and possibly break her arms and fingers to make sure she can't drink. Because that's just reckless stupid to not look after the Gundams and their pilots. If this whole thing was planned and it went the way she expected it to then she is a bigger moron for endangering their lives with a plan devised for them to get pummeled for 15 hours straight and hopefully survive also for not taking into account what Soma can cause Allelujah unless he never mentioned anything about that to her.

[rockmanj]

Well, I don't think that a plan to attack all of those forces would have been prudent at all; I mean we still don't know the point of that scenario, but in that situation, it makes no sense to recklessly attack superior forces, and most likely superior talents. I think the best thing to do in that situation was to defend and wait for a lull i.e. just survive and wait for a lull in the conflict (which is kind of a bad look).

[TheBladeChild]

Edit: Found this which is suppose to be the meistars for the three new gundams eins, zwei and drei
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2237/02310561da3.jpg

Lol nice evil looking Haro. Im not one for freckles but Its about time they had a female gundam meister.

[Yukimura]

I could stand to do without a young female with a Gundam. Young female pilots have a knack for being annoying, hyper-active, drama queens and this girls goofy looks and childish smiles don't give me much hope that she'll be any different. I hope her Gundam is interesting at least.

[animus]

Sumeragi should be a Meister, that way we can see her in that tight pilot suit, and she won't be annoying.

[Yukimura]

That's what all the pool scenes are for, I think her character knows how hateable she is so she tries to put out fanservice so lessing the blow. Sumeragi x Wang Liu-Mei anyone?

[TheBladeChild]

That's what all the pool scenes are for, I think her character knows how hateable she is so she tries to put out fanservice so lessing the blow. Sumeragi x Wang Liu-Mei anyone?

All Im waiting for are the doujins.

[Ryllharu]

I still can't but help to think that the Meistar's we've known and hated (or loved for the Tieria and Lockon fangirls and boys out there) will cross swords with the new three. It just wouldn't be a proper gundam series without real Gundams beating the hell out of each other. The only contenders we've had so far are Graham (due to his insane piloting skills), Soma (due to her durable-as-hell Toazi and always facing seizure-boy), and Ali-Serges.

Only, Soma has never come close to defeating Hallelujah and is always forced to withdraw, Ali-Serges always loses a part to dumbass Setsuna, and Graham...well, he's been doing pretty well. There has to be more than just these three posing an actual one-on-one combat threat.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by G Gundam's absurdly large cast.

Still, episodes with even a little bit of Soma (her name is most likely a Brave New World reference by the way, as well as the drink in the Vedas that makes gods, Gods, like Greek ambrosia) always seem better than those without.


However, now that they face even more Gundams and probably lost everything they gained with so big losses in this operation, I wonder if they are going to just say "to hell with them", and switch to APs and even tactical nukes just to get rid of the enemy.
The latter I have to say, does not have even the slightest chance of happening. There's no way in hell anyone would be using nukes. I mean, the only alternative for Marina's country was to BEG the U.N. for a power receiver. If Iran is going for nuclear power today, there's no reason why Azadistan could not as well. If nuclear power is banned, armaments are definitely out.

[Naruto_RNG]

@fireheart

"And who says she has to use the exact information, she doesn't need to know every troop or what plan they're using it's enough to just use the information that they're all going to join and fight them. There's no specific information there that would reveal her as part of CB."

1st bold: and how is she suppoed to come up with a plan then?
I don't know if u remember a few eps back about those terroist cells and how fast they found out where their base were. You don't think they'll be able to find that they're supposed tarining plan was leaked beforehand by some1 over a regular channel?

I believe rockmanj hit the nail right on the spot.

It was a hit and run plan, hence the escape route they made. every1 of them knew it was going to be a huge battle if they did go in, cause it was all over the news. u wanted her to come up with a plan and be prepared to fight that many MS if the escape plan didn't work? I don't know wut u were watching but the only gundam that didn't had its usual stuff was setsuna's, everyone else had wut we've seen so far. I would of find more stupid if they did beat all those MS just with four of them. the gundams had long over due spanking and they got it. I believe a lot of ppl enjoyed this defeat over all the victories gundams got so far.

[Kraco]

The latter I have to say, does not have even the slightest chance of happening. There's no way in hell anyone would be using nukes. I mean, the only alternative for Marina's country was to BEG the U.N. for a power receiver. If Iran is going for nuclear power today, there's no reason why Azadistan could not as well. If nuclear power is banned, armaments are definitely out.

So far this series has tried to establish a conception that wars and terrorism can be eradicated with building sized robots. Now, before the Gundams, the superiority in this field was held by the three super powers. In practice they could have ensured (before the CB) that the rest of the world wouldn't have any nuclear power, and in order to keep their fancy mobile suits as a definitive force they might even have opted to do that.

Now, nuclear power might have been removed from the world or it might have been removed from everywhere else but where the super powers would still want to keep it. Obviously they don't need it for electricity anymore (unless for carrier ships, who knows), but it doesn't mean they couldn't keep some small stockpiles of nukes stashed away for something truly unexpected.

[masamuneehs]

I'm going to have to agree with the multiple cell theory. The guy from the U.N. (don't know his name) mentioned he was going to talk to the other Surveyors, I'm guessing he might be the Surveyor of the new group of 3 Gundams and the Chinese girl would be the Surveyor of the current gundams.

thank you. I couldn't believe that nobody else was talking about this.

Guys, look at that new Gundam, the one that saves Setsuna at the end.
Look at it. Anything stand out to you?

It's shooting out RED
evil
RED
LIKE THE DEVIL


And in the OP the one that showed up in this episode adorns the screen while the J-pop singer joyfully drawls about "destroyed the things I want to protected", it defines foreshadowing melodrama.

They're SO supa' evil!

Tell me this doesn't look evil to you? (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/2237/02310561da3.jpg)

Also, just like my good buddy Mhal over here was saying, Alejandro Corner (always been lingering in the shadows, creepy U.N. pedo with ponytail) absolutely expressed that he has loyalties to this group of "other Surveyors" and that his "job here may soon come to an end"

Now, it's as clear as him not being anywhere in the OP: Alejandro Corner is involved with someone else. He appears to have always been cooperating with CB... but now these Surveyors and the new Gundams show up... If they're not one and the same, this show is getting absurdly complex, and he says that "his job here may soon come to an end". What job do you think that is that he was doing?

Alejandro Corner, from where I'm sitting, is someone that these Surveyors decided should represent them in dealing with Celestial Being. I will take the small leap of confidence it takes to say that they're related to these new Gundams, if not outright controlling them, and that this other group Alejandro is a part of (he says "the other Surveyors", and since the question was about where he was going, I took it as meaning he was going to go meet with other Surveyors like himself) has the "alternate agenda" that Saji's sister is trying to figure out.

Livonze, Alejandro's boi servant, had a line that seemed to promise some potentially interesting future drama implications also.

Considering Alejandro has always been sketchy, hasn't really done anything ever yet, I'm banking on the next big drama maker originating from his Surveyor group. Like many episodes back, I'm thinking Tieria might even act upon his stubborn loyalty to "the cause" and go with them. Once again, he appears in places and times of this OP that seem to place him with the enemy, or at least separate from the other Gundam pilots. Having saved the "inept" CB Gundams, the Surveyors will steadily assert their aims and evil agenda over the collective Gundam efforts, until our four main Gundams are forced to recognize them as the true evils and do the classic "I have Gundam!" "I have Gundam too!" "One of us is going to die!" epic showdown shit (possibly with the support of the once villified power bloc elite pilots)

This hopefully won't take more than five episodes for them to draw out.


The three powers are pussies for not using the right hardware and just trying to kill the fucking Gundams...
Now that they face even more Gundams and probably lost everything they gained with so big losses in this operation, I wonder if they are going to just say "to hell with them", and switch to APs and even tactical nukes just to get rid of the enemy.

Agreed. Especially because, now, you might as well figure your best chances are in destroying the damn thing and trying to recover whatever technology you can from its slag leftovers. Non-lethal force blows.


Like Yuki says, Allelujah is a huge liability in any mission that may involve the HRL, and thusly should not be included in any soirée that could possibly involve that world power.

i hope their suits have...facilities inside of them).


Agreed, and agreed. Maybe it's what gives the GN particles that golden tint?


I have to give it to Lockon for having the coolest moment in the episode...when he snipes Joshua with the handgun...absolutely classic; especially how slowly the gun moves towards Joshua (remember..."He just LOVES sneak attacks")

true. that part was pretty awesome. Joshua blew. I like how Lockon originally said that line as ironic in reference to his whole terror bombed childhood, but he absolutely defines the "that's so sick it's almost unfair" school of warfare, particularly his long-range, always fatal shot illness. He also just iced those trucks, which is like stopping to stomp on a pregnant orphan's stomach after you just straight up burned the orphanage to the ground. He ranks only behind Hal in badass piloting shit.

although, also, Ali's mobile armor mind-fucker was pretty cool. totally had Setsuna.


(Sumeragi) she knew of the battle plan that the factions were using in order to capture the Gundams and she just sent all four of them straight in there even though they had 800 something mobile suits to attack them with.

it's a pretty damn stupid plan considering she just sent them to get shot at for what 15+ hours before any kind of back up arrived.

I still can't figure out why they went there in the first place. Would have been ten times more effective to take out a likely lax secure, but crucial, facility with each of your Gundams while the elites were all getting sand in their pilot suits out in this 'exercise'.

I can only think of three explanations for Sumeragi's decision, and I'm going with the second:
1. She got fed false data from the scientist after all.
2. She decided not to act on that data / go with the plan anyway
3. She's evil somehow.


Crap about 'proceeding to E5'

Sumeragi was clearly speaking about what she thought the enemy was going to do at that point. Because it was in HRL territory, they'd be the first to get a real crack at capturing the Gundams, so it'd make sense that she refer to the fact that Allelujah would very possibly be facing Soma's unit.

I want to commend the AEU's officers and command structure. Whoever thought up those Enacts that separate flyer compartments and leave the rest as a self-destruct bomb needs a bigger research grant budget. They really looked to have their shit together in coordinating the siege on the Gundams. That new chick commander might even be able to teach Sumeragi something.

Best piloting nod goes to the HRL this time around, taking on two Gundams (albeit one Failelujah) at a time with just one squadron, eventually splitting them apart. Also, their "faceless warriors" shone once again, dodging well and taking advantage of the terrain created by CB's supposed 'escape route' mud tunnel death trap. Ali had the best individual results, but also the advantage of a new unit and his enemy being very exhausted. The AEU "ace" and crew did quite a number on Tieria also. Crap from the OverFlags and all Gundams except for Lockon and Hal.

Overall, I enjoyed it, even if getting saved by $ELL MOAR MODEL KIT$ is a pretty weak deus ex machina resolution.

[fireheart]

Naruto_RNG: I love how you point out things for me *no sarcasm intended* first of all you said it yourself it was all over the news about that training exercise in that case do you really think there would be no information what so ever about it? I'm pretty sure that some information would be available, first of all the amount of mobile suits participating was well known. So I highly doubt there wouldn't be any further information whether they wanted it or not something that big will probably cause interest as it's a first so people would try and find out some more maybe even locations etc. Next point that this is leading to is that it's not impossible for tactical information to get out by some fanatics etc for example where the different bases are located.

rockmanj & Naruto_RNG: When did I ever mention that they should fight until they won over all those suits? Now that's reckless the point of it is to fight and get into a position from where they could escape, there's not much point in sticking around and waging war. But true I never said that since I figured it'd be somewhat obvious but I guess that's my mistake for assuming it. Say you were doing a hit and run, what would you do if it failed? Honestly would you just stand still and take a beating like never before or would you actually do something? Surrendering is out of the question, so just think about it if it were you would whether you're in a Gundam or not would you really just stand still as the other encircle and beat you up and keep beating you up for 15 hours straight till you collapse? The other fact that wait for a chance to escape? Psh that is kinda naive if you ask me they said so themselves there's 864 units against 4 of them like they'd actually let up hell they can sleep eat and everything while someone else bombs them and attacks them and then go out and switch shifts so that's not going to happen and they know it.

And rockmanj you mentioned they're fighting superior forces and superior talents and there's no point in it. Well guess what in your own way you just said there's no point in the whole show because that's exactly what they've been doing this whole time. Mention one time just one time that they've fought against forces that are less then them the least they've fought is a one on one and that's still just equal amount and not less. I can't think of even once when there's been less mobile suits to fight the Gundams. And superior talents I wouldn't know about that, they may have better technology and all that but that doesn't mean that they're third rate pilots the only ones that show they're better are just a handful of them, the rest have just gotten their ass handed to them.

The point about where the base can be located is important even if they didn't have it they should be smart enough to calculate it themselves without Sumeragi meaning from the bombardments and from where movement of the enemy or rather from where they send them from. For example if they manage to actually use again teamwork and fight back if they manage to take it to example the aeu base then they would have a better fighting chance of escaping because for one I doubt the bombardment would keep shooting at them since they're in the middle of a base. There is of course a chance that the other two will completely ignore that and still keep shooting but that also work in their favor because that means that they would also take out the enemy forces around that base meaning less for them to fight. Why would this work so well? First if the bombardment stops and they're in their base they can fight back more properly and they don't even have to destroy the base just the bombardment units and a couple of suits on their way through. Just getting there they have a higher chance of escaping than if they try to endure it. I doubt there's another base ready to attack them behind that base so it'd give them enough space to just run like hell. Second if the bombardment keeps going and destroy the units around that base means they can concentrate more on just getting the hell away from the base in the opposite direction, the bombardment can only reach so far and the Gundams should be fast enough to escape once they've cleared that and forces that may follow them can be disposed of by the Gundams and frankly Setsuna shown that he at least can evade getting shot at and move away from things like that except for when he was covering and protecting Virtue. So he should be able to do a hit and run on perusing forces while Dynames snipes at some or Virtue just crush all of them.

Again I'll ask the both of you, would you really just stand there and take all that to just be pummeled or would you do something about your situation? I've made my point clear why I think Sumeragi is an idiot true even if I didn't specifically say that she should have made an attack plan in order to give them a better chance of escaping.

masamuneehs: Think they went in to attack the terrorists that were about to attack the uranium thing that was located around the training ground. If they blew that up it could have resulted in a outright war between all three major forces that's not to say that it wasn't a war already.

[Naruto_RNG]

I don't know wut u were expecting them to do? dude they were out numbered greatly, done. Nobody could of come with a plan to escape against that odd not even veda lol. again I ask u wut were u watchin? they were being shelled from all directions how could they get out or fight back when they're being attacked from all directions. I'll fight my way through the front while I'll leave my back wide open to get attacked. They had no choice but to sheild themselves. I think the reason they got divided into 2 grps was because if one team got into trouble other one could of come and back them up. and no they didn't go there so they could prevent outright war between all 3 major forces. they went there cause they didn't have any choice. they knew it was a trap from the start, set by 3 major powers, if they didn't show up everything they said about war and peace and crap like that so far would of been for nothing.
Why would they endanger someting they came to protect? this is regarding to your gundams going to base theory.
I respect and welcome your ideas but wut I don't understand is why you're presisting on something they didn't had any chance to win or get out of. She is an idiot true but I don't think any sort of planning would of helped them to get out of this fight. Thats wut makes this show great. As I mentioned before a lot of ppl were waiting for this fight and the author gave it to us. enjoy or in your case hate this eps b/c from now on they'll be winning all of their fights which makes it boring again but oh well its a gundam show they have to win.

[fireheart]

I've already given examples on what they could have done, so what don't you understand about what they could do? Do you know what teamwork means? Because it doesn't mean go ahead on your own and leave your back open so someone can shot you. Basically you can have some of them move on out in order to form a path while the others block any incoming attacks/troops from behind. I'm not saying it would work but it's a hell of a better plan than standing still and getting your ass handed to you for several hours in a row. Also I mentioned that Hallelujah managed to stand through the bombardment and he didn't even flinch so claiming that they could only stand there and get bombarded seems pretty untrue if you ask me.

I'd like to ask you the same thing what were you watching. I'm pretty sure I got a better idea on what went down than you do. Because what do you mean they had to? I'll give you some quotes from the same ep and if you still think they had to go just because otherwise everything they said about peace would have been a lie then I wonder seriously. First of all they said they'd attack people that cause war, provoke war and wage war against each other. A military exercise does not provoke war, cause war nor is it an actual war against each other in what way does that clash with what CB stands for? Also according to your view of it then the Gundams should have gone in there to fight all of those troops which means your idea that it was a hit and run is contradicting yourself.

And no they divided into two groups so that if the other group got grounded which they did the other group was to secure a path which they did. However the forces responded earlier than expected as it shows with Tieria reaction. Which is why a back up plan for escaping would be needed cutting your way though is at least smarter than getting beat and so far none of your arguments proves that it would be better to stand still.

"The Gundams are heading towards the enriched uranium facility?"
Now why would the Gundams ever head towards that place? Hmmm I wonder

"Why did no one realize that there were terrorists heading towards the facility?"
Wow look at that terrorist going towards the uranium facility... what ever could they be planning? And ohh my what would have happened if they blew up an uranium facility while all 3 major powers where there? Could it possibly lead to war in any way? Yeah I'm sarcastic a lot of times nothing personal.,

I don't really care if they get beat up or win, if they're going to get beat up at least make it better than that and have them beat them while they're actually fighting back.

[Yukimura]

Your base attacking plan seems to assume the Gundams can just ignore physical damage and fly through anything undisturbed. But if that was the case why attack the base at all, they could have just flown away from the start ignoring the large number of artillery shells raining down on them and the dozens of mobile suits trying to grab them.

Unfortunately, Anno Domini Gundams are susceptible to physical damage and momentum transfer so if they had just tried to fly through the bombardment they would have been knocked around repeatedly and that would have created openings for them to get grabbed by the ground forces, which they'd then have to repel before trying to escape again with the exact same results. I suspect that's exactly what they did for all those hours:
1) try to run,
2) get forced to take cover thanks to artillery,
3) get harried by a mobile suit squad for a while,
4) destroy/repel that squad,
5) back to 1.

It's like fighting a pack of wolves, they surround you and just keep attacking your weak points trying to wear you down until you can't do anything anymore.
Each time they would have gotten more tired, more prone to making a mistake, and from as time went on the skill level of the opponents would have probably been getting higher. A potentially viable solution would have been trying to escape upwards, I don't think the Gundams can make orbit but they could potentially have a ceiling higher than the Flags/Enacts, however flying up would still subject them to bombardment for a while which could affect their ascent.

[ForteCross]

yet we never saw them flying up fast... so thats not even a option

[masamuneehs]

i also imagine they'd be shot down if they tried to escape that way. Maybe Kyrios makes it out... but probably not Virtue...

I could only think of one strategy, and it was absurdly risky and prone to getting screwed... (It was basically a feign surge, reverse, attack weak "pursuers" from backside, break through, utilizing Virtue's big 'clear the way' bazooka to clear out the pursuers,and Kyrios being able to carry that fat fuck out of there... Not to mention Lockon and Setsuna would have to be tearing it up on point to keep any hope alive at the end of the huge enemy force closing the gap on them...

[fireheart]

Yuki: Actually the example I set doesn't assume anything of a sort that's just your impression of it. I'm quite aware that they'd get shot a lot but I never assumed that they were going to fly through it until the end of it, it's not like they're only able to fly they have legs and they can move pretty fast on the ground as well. I took that into consideration and frankly whether they stand still or try to move the bombardment wouldn't change. But like I said for the third time now Hallelujah managed to stand without screaming like a baby while getting bombarded so it's not impossible to actually do that, the possibility of standing through a bombardment and then move exists.

Also I never claimed the plan would work, just that in my opinion it's a chance for survival without sacrificing any units and without getting your ass handed to you for more than half a day. Here's another thing that teamwork could do, Dynames needs a little time for sniping to aim etc and his defense isn't the best at those times. So what would happen if he just takes cover under Virtues GN field? First he'd get defense plus it shouldn't be impossible for Virtue to move while having that field activated. Secondly with communication they could drop it for a second just so that Dynames could snipe at whatever. You can have Exia and Kyrios try and secure a way in the front. As long as Exia is on the ground and uses it's mobility it gets harder to hit him of course it's not like he can escape everything but he'd be able to evade some or most of it while moving forward plus he's got a shield to help block after all. Kyrios I'm more unsure of but it's not impossible that he can guard and move forward. This of course requires the Gundams to met up but like I said teamwork, which the Gundams for the most part haven't displayed.

If someone gets hit so they fall down it's not like they can't fight back in that position and teamwork does require you too look after each other so you'd have for example someone shot anyone trying to grab which ever Gundam it is. Not to mention if someone falls from the bombardment there are three options for the enemy to take two of those options work in favor of the Gundams. One would require the enemy to fly through the bombardment to the Gundam in order to secure it so unless they're good enough to evade every shot they will get shot and that's not good for them. Second would be to stop with the bombardment which gives the Gundam more time to regroup and act which isn't good for the enemy either since they can advance pretty fast while they're not shooting while taking down incoming enemies. Third would be to keep up with the bombardment which basically means nothing changes so it's just the same status quo as before which isn't exactly a bad thing either.

Another thing about this that's good is that the Gundams aren't spread out which means that there's chances that the three forces start acting and getting in each others way. It didn't look like they were working with each other as they were taking down Gundams on their own but if say one Gundam get hit and fall to the ground and the HRL and Union want to go in and secure the Gundam while the AEU keeps up it's bombardment their forces are about to get hit. All three want the upper hand on the other so chances of them getting in each others way aren't impossible. They may even start fighting each other over it which of course goes against CB principle but hey if they d that just shot them.

Like I said it's a fighting chance at the very least and as long as they get to the base they'd have more than a fighting chance plus they'd probably be able to do it in far less time than standing still for that long seeing as it also requires some swift acting.

[Ryllharu]

Paragraphs. Please. (Yes, that neg rep was me.) You are incredibly hard to debate with because it's simply too hard to see what you are trying to say.

But, I sucked it up anyway and read your post.

CB operates as Strike Teams. A pair (and from what we've seen, often just one) flies down, or in Exia's case more often than not, comes out of stealth, annihilates the target, and zips away. They are not trained well to do teamwork, as the forces of the three nations obviously are.

This episode also clearly displays that the Gundams are not equipped or possibly designed for anything but strike missions. Sure, they have immense survivability or they would have been wiped out mere hours in the battle, but nearly every weakness they have was exploited. Virtue was not allowed to charge up, Dynames was separated and then stopped in close combat by a very fast strike by Graham. Kyrios was similarly isolated, but the Sergei learned that when it begins to act strangely, you need to back off and then can move in again.

The Gundams do not play defensively. If they did, then they probably would do as you illustrated in your post. It would make a lot of sense, but they cannot afford to stick around for more than a few minutes at best. Sumeragi knew something had changed almost immediately, and they were to gather at the rendezvous point in under an hour of the operation start.

[Kraco]

Sure, they have immense survivability or they would have been wiped out mere hours in the battle, but nearly every weakness they have was exploited.

This is probably a good point to remind the largest part of their survivability in this particular case was caused by the simple fact the three powers wanted intact suits and thus they used very gentle munitions. However, a thing like that can't be counted as a factor of survivability generally. This of course makes your point of them being weapons of strike missions all the more valid.

And honestly with pilots like that they hardly could do team work even if they wanted. They have a defective super soldier with a split personality, a totally unpredictable traumatized former child soldier, a mad slaughterer who wants to kill even his own comrades... Not your prime material for forming any coherent teams, surely.

[masamuneehs]

from what we've seen, I think the Gundams work best in the pairs of Setsuna with Lockon (short and long range, melee and ranged, both pretty stealthy when need be) and Tieria with Allelujah (heavy and light firepower, power and speed). Also, Lockon seems to be able to deal with Setsuna (although usually by simply not dealing with him).

Allelujah is wimpy enough to take orders from Tieria (and we know Tieria enjoys being in charge), but this pair is by far the weakest when you take account of both pilots' fragile mental conditions and their suit types. When Tieria needs help quickly, trauma boy might be having an episode... and whenever Allelujah goes off and does something remotely outside of the mission plan, Tieria has the hardware to blow him away in a fit of self justified hermaphrodite anger. That's begging for trouble...

like we've all been beating around, only Lockon seems to be a "team player" when he's out in the field with the others. Setsuna and Tieria sometimes have their own ideas of how things should be done, and every now and then Al will throw a hissy fit, grow a pair, and decide that he too will ignore all plans and improvise...

Tieria seems to be the best candidate to unite the four, showing the best strategic mind, unquestionable commitment to the cause, and the willingness to take charge... but he's so bad handling people and so loyal to Veda's plan that he doesn't step up to that role.

[fireheart]

Ryll: Ohh that's ok I don't really care about the rep system one way or the other so never checked any of it until you mentioned it. I'll keep posting the way I want and feel like because the moment I start caring about something like that is the moment foruming loses any value, in my opinion anyway. And if it helps I usually use a little more paragraphing but stressed on time so had to hurry it up but fine I'll go back and fix it up a little. You should have seen my earlier posts when I started foruming for the first time which have about 4-5 times more text than the last post, funny enough also about Gundam.
Also I believe everyone should be allowed to use whatever style they want, if the others don't like it and don't read it well tough luck for them, their problem. I have a hard time understanding some people with weird spelling etc, but I accept that cope with it and try to understand what they wrote even if I have to reread it 5 times before I get it. Of course it help if we try but meh just my opinion. Then again hardly the place for debating that, :) my bad.

I disagree only on one point that the Gundams are only a strike force. They did wage war for a couple of hours before which should mean they can stick around and battle it out as long as theirs a solid plan, true there wasn't as much forces etc but they did wage war none the less. May have forgotten things from that ep like what they did only remembered they pulled a surprise attack on the base at the end. But didn't they at least fight normally at the beginning? But yeah obviously they weren't meant to fight for too long they're not exactly Freedom that can take down a whole army by itself. But that's not to say they can't hold their ground, which is why they needed to act fast if they had stayed to really fight then they would have been screwed.

And yes their weaknesses were used but it wasn't really about that from the start. It was simply about the fact that they had no game plan from when the first one failed which makes me think Sumeragi was stupid for not including another one and if they acted quickly enough then they would have had a harder time to actually exploit those weaknesses.

I'm pretty sure that if Sumeragi told the pilots to actually do what I just said they would, Allelujah and Lockon doesn't seem to have any problems with cooperating with the others and Tieria would do it simply because it's the mission plan Setsuna well is a bit more of a wild card. It may not be 100% coordination but it would have been a start.

The whole idea of using teamwork is simply to just step up from the whole loner thing already and actually do something more showing that they're at least capable of it. Point is if they actually stuck together and fought I believe they would have had better chance of survival without being bombarded for that long.

[Ryllharu]

Ryll: Ohh that's ok I don't really care about the rep system one way or the other so never checked any of it until you mentioned it. I'll keep posting the way I want and feel like because the moment I start caring about something like that is the moment foruming loses any value, in my opinion anyway....Also I believe everyone should be allowed to use whatever style they want, if the others don't like it and don't read it well tough luck for them, their problem.
My point is not whether or not you are not free to write in whatever style you choose. It is that when you don't make it easy to read, people tend to ignore you. So you can go on and on for pages of text, but no one will bother to read it. Once I got past your formatting (or lack thereof), you make plenty of good points, but they are a bit too hard to dig out of there. If you don't want to bother with paragraphs, at least use the bold, italic, or underline formatting to stress the key points. It draws the eye where you want it to go.

Ultimately, you and I will disagree on how the Gundams seem to be utilized militarily. However, there is something we can agree on.

Sumeragi, the supposed excellent strategist, is highly brought into question after this. Whether Billy tricked her or not, they still knew all the militaries were moving to the area. She should have seen this coming, or at least thought of a better escape plan(s).

[Naruto_RNG]

@fireheart
I'm tired of arguing with u man. Ryllharu said it best so I'm gonna leave it at that.


anyway how bad do u guys think the 3 powers going to loose this time? with the red gundam on the scene I wonder how long will it take for them to back off.
I was reading on other forums that eps16 is going to be half recap and half new stuff but from the preview it looked like that isn't true. does any1 have any news regardng this revelation?

[rockmanj]

Hmm...I'm not sure. I don't think those new Gundams will just own everyone. I think they may just cause a big enough distraction in order to make a hasty retreat. Well, that's the best strategy anyway..but those red beams are still disturbing.

[Kraco]

What I logically think will happen is that the three powers will withdraw either right away or after one recapture attempt (which would fail). We saw in this ep that the three powers actually had carefully planned strategy for isolating and capturing Gundams. That strategy hardly included three totally new Gundams suddenly appearing out of nowhere. And we have seen well enough who wins when Gundams and regular mobile suits fight in a chaotic battle.

If the red Gundams will stick around to slaughter as many mobile suits as they can, then it will be pretty clear they will be the real evil of this series, and some totally different goal exists for the CB that the old Gundam pilots know nothing about. However, if they just withdraw now, after saving the old meisters, then we will just have to wait and see what this is all about.

[Buffalobiian]

Well, even if Sumeragi screws up this time, Veda's supposed to check her mission plans and course of actions isn't it? If all it does is give a nod for the next mission without worrying about how it'll be executed or what exactly can happen, it fails as a super AI IMO. That reminds me, Veda approved of this mission....

Assuming the guys in red Gundams are from CB, I'm wondering if they base their actions on an AI. If so, is it a Veda programmed with a different goal, or is this thing really running the whole show?

edit:

Sumeragi has his second personality
In case you're still confused, Sumeragi is the big bossomed strategist who you saw come out of the shower.

[masamuneehs]

I'd expect that the "Surveyors" (the mysterious group mentioned by Corner) have a Veda, or something like it, but that they either disregard what it tells them to do something that will conflict with their objectives, or it's been reprogrammed to have their goals in mind.

One thing that's different about this Gundam series is that it doesn't take place in the midst of a huge, open conflict. In most Gundams, the main characters are limited in their range of operations. Targeted enemy is based in this region. Country X has the Earth on lock down, etc. (they also almost never arbitrarily skipped entire months at a time between episodes). So far, we've seen the Gundams have missions in space, then on Earth, then in space again, etc.

But, one thing that caught my eye from the OP is that when the three new Gundams are shown, they are rising up FROM the Earth. This is followed by the portion where the Gundams and new units are fighting each other up in space. Usually, the later in an OP something is revealed, the later on in that season it will show up.

That and the unlikeliness of the new Gundams (i'll wait a little while longer to call them 'the Surveyors' Gundams') instantly fighting CB's Gundams make me think we won't see their intentions until around the end of episode 20 or so. But, at this early stage, even I think I can make up a plan that they'd be following:

1. Use CB to introduce the Gundams to the world as 'good guys'.
2. Whittle down the three powers using CB
3. Step in whenever CB screws up, support them.
4. Once the three powers are weakened, seize control of the solar energy systems and elevators.
5. Enjoy ruling the world while everyone regrets laying down their weapons and wasting their best pilots fighting against CB.
6. Hope CB goes along with it all, or that your own Gundams will be able to defeat them if they oppose you.

Clearly, step 4 is taken up under the premise of "Resources and energy have always been a source of conflict. We believe the three powers will continue to fight so long as they control the orbital elevators and solar energy systems. Accordingly, we the Surveyors will now take control of the energy system and distribute it as we see fit. Remember, we're not like those stupid old nations that fight."

Step 6 always seems to be the one that comes back to bite them in the ass...

So far it seems that the three nations are hopelessly concerned with protecting their orbital elevators from each other (and now with getting an advantage over each other by capturing a Gundam). They really don't seem to have much interest in space, and are woefully inept up there. (HRL station in episode 1 would have been destroyed by that pathetic terrorist attack, CB is freaking sitting out in a Union asteroid resource field, lax security again at HRL's Lagrange colony)

So, yeah, that's my take on it. Seems pretty simple on the Surveyors' part... just sit back and let your idealist puppets destroy any potential military power that could stop you from running the world from wherever you are up in space.

[Kraco]

That sounds like a viable theory. Although you would need to include the three powers still somewhere in there. They spent far too much time introducing characters to just forget them and have Gundams fight each other.

[fireheart]

Ryll: Never asked so better do it now, do you mind that I call you ryll? You do have a valid point but I usually expect people to ignore what I say since when I get into things I pump out a lot more text trying to cover as many points I can and trying to be as clear as possible (Which I ultimately seem to fail most of the time). So most will go too much text to read, nothing new about it. But I shall try

I can agree they're not made for war or longer battles which means you're probably right that they're strike forces, I just think they can hold their own for some time. If they can't do that much it'll be hard for them to continue on for the rest of the series. They already started exploiting their weaknesses, granted 3 new Gundams joined the fray but seeing how early it is in the show it still doesn't bode well for CB.

The way I see it they either shape up and become a force that can be used even in war situations/outside of strike missions or they'll just use the old upgrade thing and start leveling the Gundams to be able to handle it. I'm still hoping they won't be uprgrading the Gundams to any kind of über forms or any at all, if they'd stay in the first level all the way through I'd be impressed.

Naruto_RNG: Hahahah do as you wish though you usually use someone else's word so far anyway. Besides ryllharu seemed to agree that Sumeragi should have had made more plans at least so seems weird that you suddenly agree with him when that's the one thing we argued about.


Anyway something I been thinking about. They can notice the Gundams coming usually by tracking some kind of energy that they release right? Thinking back a couple of episodes and didn't they do something like that? Anyway my thoughts are simply should they notice that they new Gundams are coming? Even if they can't notice them by the means I mentioned they're bound to fly over some forces in order to get to the other Gundams. Unless they suddenly don't notice them or don't report it they should be able to at least try using the same tactic against the new ones.

[Ryllharu]

I don't mind what you call me, everyone with nicks longer than two syllables ends up abbreviated (masa, terra, Yuki, etc.)

The Gundams have been tracked before under the principle that they can't be tracked beyond visual inspection. Gaps or interference with tracking, radar, and communications indicate the presence of the GN particles emitted by the Gundams.

I don't know what will happen in the next episode. A lot of this appears to be Sumeragi's fault, but we don't know what kind of information was passed around where. She certainly doesn't seem as devastated as she did when she fell into Sergei's plan to destroy the ship up in space.

We'll have to wait and see.

[Kraco]

The way I see it they either shape up and become a force that can be used even in war situations/outside of strike missions or they'll just use the old upgrade thing and start leveling the Gundams to be able to handle it. I'm still hoping they won't be uprgrading the Gundams to any kind of über forms or any at all, if they'd stay in the first level all the way through I'd be impressed.

There just a few Gundams around. No matter what they do, they will always have a disadvantage in numbers, and that means a limited operation time, due to the fact that even if the machine holds, the pilot won't. And we still haven't actually seen the three super powers trying to destroy Gundams. I deem they will continue to perform primarily precision strike missions. They have a vast advantage in those against any opponent (except the red Gundams if it turns out they will become enemies of the old Gundams).

[fireheart]

ryll: Well I've already sen the next episode so I'll refrain from commenting, but thanks for the info about the tracking thing.

kraco: Because they'll always have that disadvantage it's about time they take it more into consideration and try and over come it. The way they've operated so far mostly involves them going in by themselves taking care of the problem with their missions. Which is why I'd like to see some teamwork instead, besides from most of the Gundam shows I've seen most of them are on their own against the troops. Either way guess it's just my wish to see some more teamwork

[Buffalobiian]

Because they'll always have that disadvantage it's about time they take it more into consideration and try and over come it. The way they've operated so far mostly involves them going in by themselves taking care of the problem with their missions. Which is why I'd like to see some teamwork instead, besides from most of the Gundam shows I've seen most of them are on their own against the troops. Either way guess it's just my wish to see some more teamwork

Considering how each Gundam can usually hold their own, I guess it's more efficient to deploy them separately, especially considering the scale of most of their missions. Instead of sending them in as an entire team of four, they instead specialised their missions and course of action. For large scale missions, such as this one, or the one against the PM Trust, they did use all four gundams, and in stage 6, all four came out of the ravine and destroyed all the suits at their headquaters. They started off using teamwork here too, but just got separated.