Friend Or Foe?

[flame2]

What do you guys think of Kabuto??? How strong is he compared to Itachi?? Is he really evil? Is he really a SUBORDINATE to Orochimaru? Should he be?

[conquistaDan]

I hate him. Never liked him. Retarded gennin compared to Itachi. Yes he's evil. No he's not a sub to Oro. No he shouldn't be.

In my opinion all kabuto has ever had is healing from his dad, and the ability to use weak points against them, in only taijutsu form. Thats all. I think that he's a useless character in the series to begin with.

[Konohamaru]

I like the guy though he hasn't shown much in the show. He's so far only done some basic ninja techniques and combines taijutsu with his medical knowledge very well. He's able to call summons and "apparently" on par with Kakashi. If thats the case he must also be a genius too. I'd like to see Kabuto take out a well skilled ninja in the show someday, maybe someone from Konoha like Neji. They seem like similar fighting styles. One hits chakra points and the other cuts limbs and stuff.

I wanna see more, he doesn't seem like the crazy or psychotic evil guy like Orochimaru is. I can't put my finger on his personality.

[rockmanj]

I wanna see more, he doesn't seem like the crazy or psychotic evil guy like Orochimaru is. I can't put my finger on his personality.

I think that's the point of Kabuto. No one knows what he's really about...and im still curious to see what his secret ability is...like the he gets "those eyes" that Oro talked about so long ago.

[Abdula]

I hate him. Never liked him. Retarded gennin compared to Itachi. Yes he's evil. No he's not a sub to Oro. No he shouldn't be.

In my opinion all kabuto has ever had is healing from his dad, and the ability to use weak points against them, in only taijutsu form. Thats all. I think that he's a useless character in the series to begin with.

Are you trying to give me reason to get on your case. First of all although we don't know much about Kabuto but one word you can never describe him with is retarded. If the "dad' you are referring to is the chief medical ninja that adopted him then you are wrong. Kabuto's abilities and origins remain unknown as does Orochimaru's for that matter.

His healing ability doesn't come from his training and there can be no greater ability for a ninja to have than exploiting someone else's weak points, thats how the leaf ninja's survive because they certainly weren't stronger than the opponents they have faced. Kabuto's abilities aren't limited to taijutsu, he can obviously use high level nin and medical jutsu's and appears to a genjutsu type as well. Hell even his basic taijutsu is better than most other ninja's we've seen, certainly leagues better than Naruto's.

Like I said we just don't know much about Kabuto and he really never needed to show us much since he was content to merely follow Oro. Now that he not only intends to improve himself and his own skill but go as far as surpassing Oro, I don't see how you can think he is retarded or useless. I mean even without revealing any high level techniques, he managed to dispose of Tsunade so if he is useless what is she?

In anycase I think Kabuto is and always has been positioned to become possibly the biggest opponent in the series thus far, if or I should say when he manages to surpass Oro I don't think anyone will be able to argue that. He already has natural regenerative abilities and if you combine that with Oro's high level ninjutsu's and forbidden jutsu's and Oro's other crazy abilites Kabuto would be a possibly unstoppable villain. Not only would he have Oro's abilites but he would have his own unknown abilites along with tai, nin, kin and possibly even genjutsus. Plus he is highly intelligent and has superior strategic and analytical abilities. Now if that isn't a formidable opponent no one is.


What do you guys think of Kabuto??? How strong is he compared to Itachi?? Is he really evil? Is he really a SUBORDINATE to Orochimaru? Should he be?

This thread isn't properly named if that is what you are going to ask. I was also going to say that this thread should have been done earlier when something Kabuto related was going on but I noticed you're a new guy. I'm guessing you are talking about the anime in which case you should have made this thread in the anime section rather than the manga section. You should post in the Introductions (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?t=14835&page=60) thread.

We don't know much about Kabuto or Itachi and we can't say much about their strength since we have no idea just how strong they are. Its also really hard to compare them since they have completely different fighting styles but as for now I would say Kabuto isn't as "strong" as Itachi.

Evil is rather vague as I don't really consider Kabuto or anyone else in the manga to be evil. The only one I would consider evil is Oro and I still don't think he was but Kabuto certainly isn't a good guy so No I don't consider him evil but he is a bad guy. Is he really a subordinate to Oro ofcourse he is and yes he should be because he wasn't stronger than Oro and he did benefit alot from him.


Edit: Removed spoilers.

[poopdeville]

I think that's the point of Kabuto. No one knows what he's really about...and im still curious to see what his secret ability is...like the he gets "those eyes" that Oro talked about so long ago.

That wasn't Orochimaru.[1] That was Kabuto, during the Chuunin exam. Honestly, I don't think he has any particularly special ability other than being a very strong Jounin. I'd compare him favorably to Zabuza, for example. If you recall, during the battle with Zabuza, Sasuke almost flipped out and killed himself because of the "murderous intent" (or was it "blood lust"? -- I forget) Kakashi and Zabuza were giving off.

When Kabuto said he didn't want to awaken his old self, I don't think he meant more than just showing his powers as a Jounin -- "murderous intent", elemental chakra control, etc -- and blowing his cover. Everybody would have noticed if some seven time flunkie suddenly turned into a rival to Kakashi. He was still a spy for Orochimaru at that point.

[1] Okay, maybe it was. If you're thinking about the scene where Orochimaru tells Kabuto he trusts him, Orochimaru meant that he couldn't read Kabuto's facial expression, and that he wasn't sure what he would do.


The only one I would consider evil is Oro and I still don't think he was but Kabuto certainly isn't a good guy so No I don't consider him evil but he is a bad guy.

There's a difference between bad and evil character now? If Kabuto was a sincere subordinate to Orochimaru, he was just straight up evil, just like his master. And there is good reason to think he was loyal to Orochimaru. During the Chuunin exam, Kabuto could have killed Sasuke and screwed up Orochimaru's plan. Orochimaru even doubted him. If he was under a mind control jutsu like Yamato said, Orochimaru wouldn't have doubted Kabuto.

[Abdula]

Yes there is a big difference between bad and evil. I could go into detail about the differences between Kabuto and Oro and the differences between bad and evil but you should just check a dictionary.

And no you can't consider Kabuto to be evil just because he was a "sincere" subordinate to Oro as you put it. If that were the case I'm sure you would consider Oro to be good because before he left the village he was indeed a sincere subordinate to the third. Things just aren't that linear.

-What does Kabuto following Oro's orders have to do with anything. As Kakashi talked about early in the series they are ninjas and they follow orders. If you are ordered to kill someone, whether they are innocent or not doesn't matter and if you do kill that person that doesn't make you evil.

[Death BOO Z]

Kabuto is my favorite 'standby' villian, since about ever.
he's an old fashioned ninja (if you ignore the Kabutoro thing), who did the thing ninjas should do. he spied, gained information, spread false information and used the enemies weakness to win.

by the way, isn't he the same generation as Itachi? maybe they know each other and killed the uchiha clan together?

[poopdeville]

If that were the case I'm sure you would consider Oro to be good because before he left the village he was indeed a sincere subordinate to the third. Things just aren't that linear.

Then you'd be a fucking idiot, because he wasn't a sincere subordinate to the Third in the events leading up to him leaving. His ideals were not aligned with the Third's. Big surprise -- he was sacrificing humans to conduct his research.

If Kabuto's ideals are aligned with Orochimaru's, he's evil. Full stop.


-What does Kabuto following Oro's orders have to do with anything. As Kakashi talked about early in the series they are ninjas and they follow orders. If you are ordered to kill someone, whether they are innocent or not doesn't matter and if you do kill that person that doesn't make you evil.

I already explained what Kabuto following that order meant. It meant Orochimaru did not place a mind control jutsu on him, which we can infer from the fact that Orochimaru wasn't sure if Kabuto would follow his order or kill Sasuke. Which means that he willingly followed Orochimaru while Orochimaru was alive. Which means that he probably wasn't lying to Yamato when he said his ideals are aligned with Orochimaru's. Which makes him evil, full stop.

How much more clearly would you like that explained? Your reading comprehension seems to be on par with your writing and reasoning abilities.

[Abdula]

I trust you are intelligent enough to read your own words and see that there is no proof of either Kabuto or Oro being evil in anything you have said and talking about ideals being aligned doesn't help your cause either.

Full stop , full stop, such linear thinking.

[poopdeville]

I trust you are intelligent enough to read your own words and see that there is no proof of either Kabuto or Oro being evil in anything you have said and talking about ideals being aligned doesn't help your cause either..

Human sacrifices... Orochimaru admitted to it. And Kabuto admitted that his ideals are aligned with Orochimaru. What's so hard to understand about this? Orochimaru had an idea about the way the world should be. A world where innocent people are killed to further his research. Kabuto supported him willingly.

My "cause" is solid.

[Black Knight]

I've been back on this forum for 10 minutes so far and I've already seen two "they were just following orders so they're not evil" posts.

What the heck? Nuremburg trials, anyone?

Kabuto chose to follow Oro. So even if the "he was just following orders" argument pans out, the fact remains that he chose to follow a decidedly evil dude.

But he's the man. Figuring out how his body worked after Tsunade put the whammy on him was classic. What a beast.

[Sapphire]

If anything Kabuto has finally lost it, well at least he doesn't bother hiding it like Itachi does.

I'm still trying to figure out why he was all hesitant to destroy Naruto and such during the Chuunin exams. He looked compassionate or something, not scared, and I guess not even Orochimaru ever found out. We have discovered that Kabuto sort of sympathizes with Naruto, in a weird and twisted way, but I think since Kabuto has already lost it (what with being slowly consumed and losing his life's purpose and all) we can't really trust anything he says.

There is a difference between bad and evil. 98% of characters have some rhyme or reason behind their actions, and in Kishi's universe, evil does not necessary stand on the same lines as bad, moral wise. I don't really think Itachi and Kabuto are totally evil, especially since they have both gone off the deep end, but they have some weird philoshophies. Sasuke followed Oro for awile, though he tended not to kill as much, that doesn't make him necessarily evil, just someone who is doing bad things from Kishi's stand point.

Like it or not human lives have different values in Naruto, Orochimaru or that snakey water dude from Hebi could kill 400 people in one chapter and we wouldn't give a damn, but if we saw Sarutobi get mutilated like that everyone would demand retribution, there would be a mourning chapter or two, lives would be drastically changed, and the story line would be altered forever.

If anything Naruto is the evil one, he is letting thousands of people die at the hands of evil while he tries to hook up with Sakura and eats Ramen all day!

[Abdula]

Lol, I don't think Kabuto has lost it and it appears that he is very compassionate. He doesn't just randomly kill or hurt people, only those who oppose or would stand in the way of Oro's goals.

[Sapphire]

Kabuto being compassionate in general is a very strong word to use, maybe compassionate about avenging Orochimaru, becoming strong, selfish reasons like that etc.

We've seen before that Kabuto never gave a crap about anyone except perhaps Orochimaru, and laughed in the faces of despair around him. He's always seemed strong, but not any natural type of strong like anyone else, the type of strong that he somehow got through cheating/conniving.

If Kabuto hasn't totally lost it by now, then he is no longer held by the boundaries of what is logical to the average ninja (if he ever was), lol if that wording makes it any better.

[Abdula]

No he has generally been compassionate not just towards Oro. For example during the Sannin battle when he was telling Naruto to leave the battle because if he stayed he would die and when he was dead he wouldn't be able to achieve his goals or when he healed Sakura.

Another great example would be when he gave Naruto the book about Akatsuki now that Oro is dead he no longer had any reason to help them because Akatsuki is not his enemy. Just from his mannerisms and the way he interacts with people I would say he is quite compassionate.




If Kabuto hasn't totally lost it by now, then he is no longer held by the boundaries of what is logical to the average ninja (if he ever was).

I completely agree with this.

[Sapphire]

I'm pretty sure Kabuto was telling Naruto to taunt him and because he felt Naruto was a bother. I don't know if Kabuto had any faith that Naruto could achieve any of his goals. I believe that Kabuto gave him the book partly because of sympathized feelings, but also just because he wants Akatsuki dead so they don't interfere with his intents. I'm pretty sure Akatsuki would kill Kabuto if they had the chance, too. I think Kabuto just healed Sakura so he could achieve his goals (trust, more dead Akatsuki, etc.).

Again I am not trying to say that Kabuto is evil. He might do nice things, and he might even enjoy doing them, but he hasn't been shown going out of his way to help anyone, not if it didn't help his plans, keep him safe, advantage him etc.

[Abdula]

I don't think Kabuto was taunting him at all, even when Naruto went four tails Kabuto felt sorry for Naruto. Akatsuki isn't going to interfere with Kabuto he isn't any threat to them and if anything they would use Kabuto to their advantage much like they did when Oro attacked the village.


I believe that Kabuto gave him the book partly because of sympathized feelings, He might do nice things, and he might even enjoy doing them
Doesn't this contradict what you said, any sympathetic feelings is compassion, when he acts on them or not.


he hasn't been shown going out of his way to help anyone, not if it didn't help his plans, keep him safe, advantage him etc.
So what are you saying because I can't think of anyone in Naruto or the real world for that matter who does something if it isn't for those reasons.

[Sapphire]

I don't think Kabuto was taunting him at all, even when Naruto went four tails Kabuto felt sorry for Naruto. Akatsuki isn't going to interfere with Kabuto he isn't any threat to them and if anything they would use Kabuto to their advantage much like they did when Oro attacked the village.

I do agree that Kabuto isn't much of a real threat to them, but their interests do indeed conflict. I believe that Akatsuki would kill Kabuto if they had the chance, as Kabuto tries to get Akatsuki members killed if he had the chance. If Akatsuki offered to use Kabuto instead of killing him, then Kabuto would probably take the offer to survive, but I doubt this would happen and Kabuto would probably just kill them or escape when he had the chance. No one knows exactly what he's up to right now, but I still believe he's following Orochimaru's ideals and that means killing off Akatsuki members. As for Kabuto genuinely feeling sorry for Naruto in 4tails, this might be possible, or he could have just been saying that.


Doesn't this contradict what you said, any sympathetic feelings is compassion, when he acts on them or not.

Again I don't think Kabuto is a generally compassionate person at all, but perhaps that all of his "compassionate" actions toward Naruto have arisen due to perhaps feelings of sympathy and for his own benefit.


So what are you saying because I can't think of anyone in Naruto or the real world for that matter who does something if it isn't for those reasons.

Maybe in the real world, but not in Narutoland.

[Abdula]

Really Oro's goals have nothing to do with Akatsuki, he wanted them eliminated because they were trying to kill him after he left the organization. Its not like disrupting Akatsuki was an original part of his plans, after he escaped they had to eliminate him because he knew too much about them and he had to try and disrupt them because they were far more powerful that he was so sooner or later they would have killed him.



Maybe in the real world, but not in Narutoland.

Really, I need some examples because I can't think of any. Naruto and the stupid kids don't count because they were and still are just kids, other than them I can't think of any examples.

[Sapphire]

Really Oro's goals have nothing to do with Akatsuki, he wanted them eliminated because they were trying to kill him after he left the organization. Its not like disrupting Akatsuki was an original part of his plans, after he escaped they had to eliminate him because he knew too much about them and he had to try and disrupt them because they were far more powerful that he was so sooner or later they would have killed him.

I acknowledge the fact that they are a thorn in each others side. I'd hate to ask a question as a reply but then why is Kabuto still trying to kill them.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/Violet_Sidhe/orointhecar0rt9au.gif


Really, I need some examples because I can't think of any. Naruto and the stupid kids don't count because they were and still are just kids, other than them I can't think of any examples.

rofl I don't think that Naruto and his friends will suddenly change like that when and if they grow up/become smarter. I think those actions are part of the reasons why they are "the good guys". As for everyone else, they are pretty much antagonists so does that even really count? I could throw in the Haku/Zabuza story I suppose.

[Abdula]

Kabuto never said anything about trying to kill Akatsuki, he gave Naruto the book because Akatsuki are trying to capture Naruto as he himself said he doesn't want that to happen because he wants to test himself against Naruto in the future.

I think you misunderstand what I meant, I didn't mean the entire village I meant Naruto and Sakura who blindly do things without thinking, so there isn't much reasoning behind their actions.

Even when Tsunade sent Naruto and the others to rescue Gaara it was for her own benefit. The powerful ninjas and the village leaders even the normal people don't do things if it wasn't for their own benefit other than that not only would their actions be pointless but if your priority is helping someone else then you would just be leaving yourself open to attack.

[Sapphire]

I think in the next few chapters we'll see some of Kabuto's real intents become clearer, now that should be interesting and clear up some of the debate. I still also believe that Kabuto wants Akatsuki dead because it benefits him.

You're right about Naruto and Sakura being dumb to the point of acting without thinking, and yes Tsunade not only does things for her own benifit but the benifit of her village because that's her job. Logically, ninjas shouldn't risk their lives or go out of their way to help people (at high or any risk) unless it's for the benifit of their mission, their lives, their village, etc, but time and time again we see the ninjas not doing it just for that, but for comradery, bonds and friendship.

Edit: However, I don't think this is necessarily the case with Kabuto.