Naruto Shippuuden Episode 42

[Killa-Eyez]

Yeah... with the 42nd (http://www.dattebayo.com/t/ns042.torrent) release, "Wakatta-bayo" was at it again! ;)

Edit: Quite a disappointment. I expected more from this fight. Orochimaru stayed bad-ass to the end, but Naruto's part was whack... What an ugly Kyuubi that was... Overall, this ep was not what it could've been with a little more effort.

[Nai]

The issue I have with watching Naruto fight is that he always fights like a total brute. At least this time he had excuse for doing so but I still felt rather bored watching him. He just isn't a ninja to me. Thankfully Orochimaru is all about technique so as usual it was a pleasure watching him and his grotesque moves... though I couldn't help but cringe when that gigantic sword came about. Talk about putting Sephiroth to shame there, Orichimaru.

I quite liked the episode despite all the staring contests which by now seems to be a trademark of Shippuuden. I like suspense as much as anyone but there could have been less stalling here. The next episode seems to involve Sakura's tears ( I wonder how I realized that? ) so let's hope she has a good reason to cry. Like Kabuto kicking her in the fucking ass. Oh, who am I kidding.

[Yukimura]

It was all worth it for the Dragon Ball Z homage Kyubimeha. Plus Oro being badass, of course. If you look at the things that he was hit with that he simply shrugged off without a second thought there's little question he is badass beyond all measurement.

The preview looked depressing though, I really don't want another 'Hero Goes Berserk But Comes Back Due To The Pleading Of Sappy Female Character' scenario, especially not with Sakura. She's been steadily losing all the cool points she gained by participating in Sasori's death and if she makes some heart felt speech to calm the beast she's going right back in the shitty characters drawer. Hopefully Naruto will just pimp slap her and continue fighting.

[Jeff_from_MD]

Had that kyuubi did less staring/crouching and just went at orochimaru melee style, this battle would have been over already..

Instead, kyuubi swipes oro one good time, and then watches oro kinda piece himself back again.

Seriously Kyuubi's got all the brute strength and unpredictability in this battle, so why not put up his dukes like what Sasuke did against Oro during the Jounin exams???

[poopdeville]

The Rasengan the Kyuubi used was fucking awesome.

e: spelling

[Killa-Eyez]

*grasping for air while making squeeky sounds*

"Kyuubimeha".

Rofl. :p

[DDBen]

Well this was a half decent episode and I mean exactly that had it been half a episode it would of been absolutely amazing as it stands it was still pretty good but not quite amazing. Orochimaru licking the floor for you know a minute or so was among the most useless footage but I guess licking dirt lets you spit up lots of snakes.

Anyway as long as the scenes were moving this was greatness so would someone please go steal the remote from the animators and rip off the pause button already.

[DarthEnderX]

The episode was the shit, you people are retarded!

I didn't even notice any long staring contests this episode. Maybe that's because I think the Kyuubi is so badass looking that I don't notice if a shot of him goes long.

And unlike the previous episode, the majority of it was action.

The chakra blast was soooo sweet! It was all like, CHOMP! And then doors. And then PREEEOOOWW!!

So fucking awsome...


The new ending has a nice 80s rock sound too it. Were those pictures fanart or something?

[Fighter Fei]

spoilers for the episode, just in case
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THIS was what the special should have been like. Not an hour of transformations, little (mostly worthless IMO) dialogue, and just very all pretty low quality (reminiscent of the Clone Wars). I mean, this is the first episode that actually had me pumped in a long time. It was fairly quick-paced, we didn't see animation recycling (at least I didn't pick up on any... -cough, Gai clone fight, cough cough-), and what dialogue there WAS in the episode didn't feel like it was worthless. It was well done and kinda reminded me of the spirit of Old Naruto.

The way Naruto fights now isn't as a ninja, because the Kyuubi is not a goddamn ninja--and it's quite clear he's the one in control of Naruto's body and conscious right now. So of course, he's going to fight like he knows how to--with Kyuubimeha's, chakra arms, and a little melee. You shouldn't expect him to fight like a ninja.

Plus, the new ending actually doesn't suck. I was pleasantly surprised!

[Idealistic]

Good episode indeed. For some reason, I like the whole Sakura character and how she's caring.

The way Oro was left upside down was rather weird. Looked like a comic-relief moment.

Anyways, I'm not sure Naruto will be able to change back though even if Sakura was all crying to Naruto. If anything, I think Yamato will be the one to stop Naruto.

[DarthEnderX]

The way Oro was left upside down was rather weird. Looked like a comic-relief moment.It did look that way but it was probably intentional so that he could make the head-first underground attack that he did.

[DDBen]

It was fairly quick-paced, we didn't see animation recycling (at least I didn't pick up on any... -cough, Gai clone fight, cough cough-),

Wait what no recycling? There were several back and forth scenes like the kyuubi vs Orochimaru licking the floor in the start or you know when the episode managed to flash back on itself and other scenes we have seen several times already such as Sasori when he was stabbed by his puppet parents.

On the other hand the actual fight didn't contain reused scenes if thats what your talking about specifically. The fight was great as were all the moves from Orochimaru and the 4-tails its just the stuff outside of that was mostly reused footage or just dragged out.

It wasn't terrible the action was in fact great for the most part its just what they used to tie it together that was boring.

[Nintendo]

that episode made me hate naruto more. we waited for more than 2weeks for this shit.before,we had full boring episode of story progress now we have HALF of story progress/episode,i think the next episodes will be ONLY stairing.

[Kraco]

I liked this episode a lot. One of the best Shippuuden episodes so far in my opinion. It had some of the old Naruto feeling as well, maybe partly due to the fact so much previously unseen was presented, like actual Kyuubi powers as well as serious Orochimaru fighting. Plus it looked like every form of attack was bigger than the previous, with no upper limit.

This was also actually the first time we got a small taste of what manner of terror those facing the real Kyuubi must have experienced, and why so drastic measures were required to save Kohoha from it. And this was but the tip of the iceberg.

What comes to Sakura, I didn't mind what happened or what the preview showed. That's her character. It might have many flaws, and she was certainly nothing but useless a crybaby in battles in the past, but if they suddenly completely changed that, it would either break consistency or it would require something very dramatic happened to her during the time skip to change her personality. And as far as we know, nothing like that happened. So, it makes sense. She cried when Sasuke disappeared, and while Naruto doesn't mean as much to her as Sasuke, now it probably seems to her she will lose him as well.

[kenren]

Compared to previous episode, this episode is great. Good fights and another reason to love Orochimaru for his badass-ness. Next week should be interesting o_O.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode wasn't bad. I can see where these comments are coming from, but it held my attention for the duration of the show. I wonder if the Kyuubi actually knew the Kyuubimeha before he met Naruto. And since Sai can't get anywhere near them, I guess his real mission probably won't revealed until later on in the show.

[DarthEnderX]

What it comes down to is this.

If you didn't like this episode. Just stop watching Naruto. At this point, you have yourself so thoroughly convinced that Shippuuden sucks that when an episode is great, you can't even see it anymore.

You are never going to enjoy this show again, so you might as well give up and find something else.

[uhicha neji]

What it comes down to is this.

If you didn't like this episode. Just stop watching Naruto. At this point, you have yourself so thoroughly convinced that Shippuuden sucks that when an episode is great, you can't even see it anymore.

You are never going to enjoy this show again, so you might as well give up and find something else.

I agree, these forums seems to be riddled with negative comments, and complaining over every little thing.. BOO HOO there was a flash back, get over it, it's been going on for almost a year and a half now, stop watching the show if you don't like it.

I on the other hand enjoyed this episode, and thought they did a good job with the 3 gates Oro summoned, simply badass.

[Abdula]

This episode was great. Naruto attacks reaching DBZ proportions which I don't think is a good thing but I don't expect we will ever see stuff like that again. Anyway yes there were a few recycled scenes and ofcourse your completely unnecessary flashbacks but as others have said that is the norm in Naruto by now so get used to it.

Since I'm in love with Oro I don't think I need to say anything about him and his greatness however I will call out all those idiot naysayers who thought that someone like Sasori would've beaten him.

Its funny no one talked about the animation because I watched that scene where Oro spit up all those snakes out of his mouth over and over again just because the animation was so good.

I'm not really a fan of the new ending. The song is "okay" but really didn't need to see all the fan art since looking at it only makes me think more and more about DBZ and I detest that Naruto is moving more and more in that direction. Yes this battle is great and everything but I watch Naruto to see ninja if I wanted to see people transforming into their uber berserk forms and powering up which in itself causes gigantic craters and spitting energy beams out of the mouth, freaking energy beam WTF, I would be watching DBZ.

@ Kraco I don't get what you said about Sakura. She doesn't have to go through any traumatic events she was a broken character and she got trained by the greatest kunoichi in existence. While that isn't saying much she should have greatly improved if its always going to take some great traumatic event just for her to improve then she should quit being a ninja.

Now speaking of traumatic events there were plenty infact the reason they had a time skip was because a major event happened that being Sasuke leaving the village and running off to the man who had killed the hokage. In any case Sakura is a horrible character and a waste of screen time if Naruto does anything except cut her in half with one swing of his arm I will be very disappointed. Just goes to show all you guys that thought she had become some sort of ninja how wrong you were. She is still useless and incompetent and still always needs saving even though its her job to save the other members of the team. Unless you have someone like Chiyo literally pulling her strings she would be useless in a battle.

What the hell is she thinking running up to Naruto and crying for that matter. Very unbecoming of a ninja. Not to mention that Naruto is currently in berserker mode and in a battle with Oro of all people which is why Yamato couldn't even try to intervene. If he did not only would he face the possibility of being attacked by Naruto but by Oro as well but Sakura in her blind emotional fit is ignoring all of that. Now I'm not really that disappointed with Sakura because she is a kunoichi and I don't expect much from any female in Naruto certainly not her so it isn't really a disappointment. Its alot better when she does than when Naruto does it. Freaking emotional ninjas...........

There is alot more to talk about like the awesomeness of Kabuto but I'll save that for later. As for now bow to the greatness of Orochimaru-sama.

[Narasho]

I thought the episode was fine. The one thing I thought would have improved it dramatically would've been better music while Orochimaru was attempting to defend against the chakra attack. (the music they played when Sai attacked Naruto/Shikamaru/Chouji for example)

[Janusz]

Oro 'bleegghhhhh'-ing that uberlong sword out of his throat was definitly a major WTF moment. Didn't see that coming in a thousend years. Otherwise the ep was decent - action was cool, but I don't like the DBZ magnitude of it. Also a lot of flashbacks again and recycled animation. And another 'Walking out of the forest very slowly'-scene :(

[Abdula]

How did you not see that coming. Of all the things Oro did thus far that is the one I absolutely knew was going to happen. He's been doing that since we first saw him, remember his fight against Sarutobi or the Sannin battle. Sure the sheer scale and magnitude were different but its the same attack.

Now the one thing I didn't see coming was the punch straight to Naruto's face. Oro is a master of ninjutsu and mostly only uses taijutsu for evasion and even so its his own weird brand of taijutsu. After everything else that happened I really didn't think he would just punch him to the face, the irony was not lost on my part.

[Munsu]

For the last time, stop discussing or alluding or comparing fucking DBZ in the Naruto section. WE DON'T CARE!

Now, go and discuss the episode.

[February]

oro is truly a skilled ninja. Even if he only showed us simliar techniques, the whole concept of the character like Oro makes you feel like he can regenerate anything and survive through any attack. Very defensive but weird yet amazing jutsus that he pulls off makes me like him better than the other sannins.

You might say that the entire Naruto's huge beam / big crater is kind of over-doing it but you really have to imagine how powerful a miniture Kyuubi would be like, and it makes it more realistic for him to be that strong. After all, Kyuubi is not a ninja in the first place so it shouldn't have normal attacks.

[DayoftheDante]

It should be pretty clear that Naruto is no longer in the driver's seat when he gets hit by his own tactic-by that I mean the one he used to beat Neji at the end of his Chuunin match. I'm totally happy with the way this fight crossed over from the manga. Shippuuden's future is looking good. :)

And I almost NEVER smile while typing!

[fifafreak18]

I don't know why you guys are giving crap to Sakura. Like DE said, you should be used to this by now, and if your not don't watch it. Think about it though, this show wouldn't be a whole lot right now without Sakura, not particularly this ep of course, but if they just removed her what would happen? Yeah I know some of you will just say "duh they could kill her off" but its a cliche (and not necessarily a bad one) to have the key cry-baby useless girl, if they didn't have Sakura, hell they may have Ino fill that role...**** that.

Anyways, im now thoroughly convinced Oro is invinsible and they will never kill him by the end of this series. Seriously, other episodes i thought he was ok, but this was just down right amazing.

The DBZ-esk mouth ball thing was my favorite part of the ep, and of course Oro's "owned" position after the dust cleared, I almost died from laughter.

[Abdula]

Yes we know characters like Sakura exist for a reason but I think our problem with her or atleast my problem with her is strictly due to the fact that she is a ninja. If she were just a regular 15 year old I wouldn't have so much of a problem but being a "ninja" dictates that you are a badass.



Anyways, im now thoroughly convinced Oro is invinsible and they will never kill him by the end of this series. Seriously, other episodes i thought he was ok, but this was just down right amazing.

Really there are alot of things that would necessitate Oro's death. Akatsuki completing their goals for example or the leaf ninja finally no longer having the threat of him attacking, looming over their heads. I mean he is immortal if one of them doesn't kill him then he would essentially have an eternity in which to attack them. More importantly there is the little matter of the Uchihas which is why Naruto is what it is.

That would never be resolved if someone doesn't do something about him because I highly doubt he would allow Sasuke to be potentially killed in a battle against Itachi since he wants his body so much. Sasuke himself won't willingly give his body to Oro, okay that sounded wrong but you know what I mean. Even if he does I really don't think Oro would be interested in going after Itachi especially if he already possesses the sharingan. Since Itachi already beat him in the past I highly doubt he would want to face him again as that could mean his death whether he has Sasuke's body or not.


It should be pretty clear that Naruto is no longer in the driver's seat when he gets hit by his own tactic-by that I mean the one he used to beat Neji at the end of his Chuunin match. I'm totally happy with the way this fight crossed over from the manga. Shippuuden's future is looking good. :)

And I almost NEVER smile while typing!

Whether Naruto was in control or not he would have been hit by that attack. I mean he is Naruto and I don't think you are suggesting that Naruto is some kind of great attack evading ninja who would recognize that Oro wasn't actually hit by the attack. Are You?

[poopdeville]

You might say that the entire Naruto's huge beam / big crater is kind of over-doing it but you really have to imagine how powerful a miniture Kyuubi would be like, and it makes it more realistic for him to be that strong. After all, Kyuubi is not a ninja in the first place so it shouldn't have normal attacks.

I think there's more of Naruto in that miniature Kyuubi than you guys think. The giant chakra attack was essentially hundreds of red and blue Rasengans compressed into a black super Rasengan. Even though it's all Kyuubi's chakra (and so his "power"), I don't think the Kyuubi could have done a move like that without Naruto.

[Jeff_from_MD]

This is pretty obvious, but I think it's kind of cool how whenever Rashoumon gets summoned, the ninja can't merely bite down on just one thumb.

The first time they summoned it, it was those twins from the sound. And now Oro has to bite both thumbs, evidently to direct the angle of the face of the Rashoumon.

[Killa-Eyez]

Like I said, the ep's a dissapointment... And while it probably is the best fighting scene in Shippuuden, comparing it to previous Naruto battles I think this battle isn't that great at all. Offcourse I'm talking about Naruto here, no complaints about Oro-sama *bows down*. I've seen what Naruto as a anime can be capable off, and this is not "it". I sure as hell would've expected this fight to be more impressive especially with "Ooooeeehhwww, the fourth tail!" *shiver*. Now I know Naruto rules and Kyuubi fourth tail sucks a big deal off Oro's badunkadunk.



I think there's more of Naruto in that miniature Kyuubi than you guys think. The giant chakra attack was essentially hundreds of red and blue Rasengans compressed into a black super Rasengan. Even though it's all Kyuubi's chakra (and so his "power"), I don't think the Kyuubi could have done a move like that without Naruto.

So it's that obvious? Or are ya just spilling out some spoilers? Because the chakra balls didn't look like a high-levelled skill such as the Rasengan, but they just looked like... ehhm... "chakra balls".
http://i13.tinypic.com/8541xqp.jpg
See any differences? Maybe because the Kyuubi is that powerfull, it is capable of shooting big-ass purple chakra balls at any given time? Sure as heaven that blast was not taught the Kyuubi by Naruto. :rolleyes:


...
Now the one thing I didn't see coming was the punch straight to Naruto's face. Oro is a master of ninjutsu and mostly only uses taijutsu for evasion and even so its his own weird brand of taijutsu. After everything else that happened I really didn't think he would just punch him to the face, the irony was not lost on my part.

I don't know if you noticed it in the special but Oro kept saying that he's like majorly "intrigued by this kid". So ever since that I've been thinking he's just using this oportunity to fight this four tailed Kyuubi, to satisfy his curiousity (I think he is, btw)...
Ya know, hit 'em in the face and see what happens. If Oro was truly serious like against the Third he would've beaten four tails Kyuubi already, IMO. Oro's just playin'.

Edit: Changed my beginning after getting some bad rep :D I was mixing the Bleach 155 post with this ep. Apologies.

[ruccus]

I thought the episode was fine. The one thing I thought would have improved it dramatically would've been better music while Orochimaru was attempting to defend against the chakra attack. (the music they played when Sai attacked Naruto/Shikamaru/Chouji for example)

See that's what I thought was the problem as well. The timing of the music seemed off. Even the sound effects aren't used properly. When the kyuubi is powering up his rasengan, the liquid sound doesnt work. I always envisioned the chakra as a "flame", where its slowly deteriorating his body, not boiled water. The animation was good, but the sound effects and music should have been used better, and the episode would have worked faster.

[Abdula]

I don't know if you noticed it in the special but Oro kept saying that he's like majorly "intrigued by this kid". So ever since that I've been thinking he's just using this oportunity to fight this four tailed Kyuubi, to satisfy his curiousity (I think he is, btw)...
Ya know, hit 'em in the face and see what happens. If Oro was truly serious like against the Third he would've beaten four tails Kyuubi already, IMO. Oro's just playin'.


Yes I'm well aware of this hence the line "Bow to the greatness of Orochimaru-sama." He is willingly provoking a creature that would have anyone else scared shitless and he isn't even being serious about it either. Just taking his time and drawing it out as much as possible and savoring every second of it. I don't know how anyone could miss that since it was pretty obvious from the beginning that Oro and Kabuto are trying to get as much as possible out of Naruto. In fact Oro said that this battle was going to be a test to see if Naruto had grown as much as Sasuke. Sadly the answer is no but the Kyuubi sure kicks ass.


Like I said, the ep's a dissapointment... And while it probably is the best fighting scene in Shippuuden, comparing it to previous Naruto battles I think this battle isn't that great at all. Offcourse I'm talking about Naruto here, no complaints about Oro-sama *bows down*. I've seen what Naruto as a anime can be capable off, and this is not "it". I sure as hell would've expected this fight to be more impressive especially with "Ooooeeehhwww, the fourth tail!" *shiver*. Now I know Naruto rules and Kyuubi fourth tail sucks a big deal off Oro's badunkadunk.



This is in no way the best battle we have seen in Naruto. Sure this might be the highest level battle we've seen thus far with Gaara vs Deidara being second but in no way is this the best battle. Excluding Oro all we've seen in this battle is sheer chakra and brute force and no tactics whatsoever, so despite the magnitude of this battle I don't think its anywhere near the best we've seen. Naruto v Sasuke, Third v Oro, Kakashi v Itachi, Kakashi v Zabuza, the sannin battle, I would even consider Naruto vs Neji better than this, This is just a show of force for lack of a better term nothing else. It really is disappointing that with all the potential that the kyuubi possesses that its just a berserker mode after all especially when you consider that there are ninja like Kakashi and Shikamaru whose only limitation is their amount of chakra yet Naruto who has seemingly limitless chakra obly uses it like this. Yeah the kyuubi's chakra cloak is great and all and it does have its advantages like when Oro punched him he was falling backwards and the chakra attacked independently but I would have loved to see what that chakra could do in the hands of someone like Kakashi.


I think there's more of Naruto in that miniature Kyuubi than you guys think. The giant chakra attack was essentially hundreds of red and blue Rasengans compressed into a black super Rasengan. Even though it's all Kyuubi's chakra (and so his "power"), I don't think the Kyuubi could have done a move like that without Naruto.

Like Killa-Eyez said are you kidding. First off there is nothing Naruto in there, secondly that was not the rasengan nor did it even resemble it. The rasengan involves the spinning and compresion of chakra there was no spinning involved here and anyone can compress chakra like that if they have the sheer mass required. This in no way resembled the rasengan and I'm sure the Kyuubi who is eons old didn't have to wait for an idiot like Naruto to come along before he learned how to condense, compress and the expel his chakra at an opponent. This is not the rasengan and Naruto himself is not capable of such a thing. Most importantly no matter what form it may be in the rasengan is a ball of compressed chakra, a ball not a beam and secondly it always requires direct contact meaning its strictly a close range attack.


See that's what I thought was the problem as well. The timing of the music seemed off. Even the sound effects aren't used properly. When the kyuubi is powering up his rasengan, the liquid sound doesnt work. I always envisioned the chakra as a "flame", where its slowly deteriorating his body, not boiled water. The animation was good, but the sound effects and music should have been used better, and the episode would have worked faster.

The Kyuubi's chakra takes many forms but in its base form it is a boiling liquid mass so the sound effects were okay, the music I don't really care about. Watching this battle the music was the last thing on my mind and its not like Naruto is known for its great music placement.

[DDBen]

Like Killa-Eyez said are you kidding. First off there is nothing Naruto in there, secondly that was not the rasengan nor did it even resemble it. The rasengan involves the spinning and compresion of chakra there was no spinning involved here and anyone can compress chakra like that if they have the sheer mass required. This in no way resembled the rasengan and I'm sure the Kyuubi who is eons old didn't have to wait for an idiot like Naruto to come along before he learned how to condense, compress and the expel his chakra at an opponent. This is not the rasengan and Naruto himself is not capable of such a thing. Most importantly no matter what form it may be in the rasengan is a ball of compressed chakra, a ball not a beam and secondly it always requires direct contact meaning its strictly a close range attack.

While I don't really disagree with this statement I'm not completely sure the Kyuubi could pull off that particular move if not for Naruto or atleast another source of chakra. The reasoning being those blue balls were not Kyuubi chakra and it seems odd it would have used two types like that if it didn't need to do so. As such I assume the blue balls are actually Naruto's natural chakra as its always been shown blue with the Kyuubi being red instead.

Purely speculation of course as we have no way to prove or disprove it,

[Kraco]

Ya know, hit 'em in the face and see what happens. If Oro was truly serious like against the Third he would've beaten four tails Kyuubi already, IMO. Oro's just playin'.

Give me a break. Oro was even less serious in his fight against the Third. Maybe the moment when his hands began to rot he was serious for the first time in that fight. Before that, he just smoked his cigars at leisure while the Third was fighting against his deus ex zombies.

And it surely didn't seem to me like he would have had any special ways to immediately defeat four tails. He didn't have any super zombies at hand and as we saw the mini-kyuubi was perfectly capable of disintegrating anything it touched. Oro was never in any truly real danger because he could have withdrawn at any point as the kyuubi was content at standing still, but that doesn't mean defeating it would have been that easy.

[DarthEnderX]

This is in no way the best battle we have seen in Naruto.He said best battle in Shippuuden, not best battle in Naruto.
its not like Naruto is known for its great music placement.Ohh, I'm gonna have to disagree there big time. I think that, normally, Naruto uses music better than any other anime I've seen.

[Assertn]

The outcome of this fight will be saying a lot about the respective powers of the characters involved....not only of that of kyubi and Oro but also of Jiraiya, who almost died to the 4th tail.

Oro does seem like he's playing around, but I'm sure his skill is not so much farther than Jiraiya's.

[Idealistic]

Watching this battle the music was the last thing on my mind and its not like Naruto is known for its great music placement.

No way! Naruto had one of the best music in an anime and was used at all the appropriate times. They fit in perfectly. The music would give me the chills and get me all excited like "OH SHIIETTT!!"

Shippuuden has been lacking a lot though.

[Madeki]

Cool episode, but why is the kyuubi so content on just standing around? I mean we all know it's capable of moving pretty fast, hell just an episode ago it bitch slapped oro in a blink of an eye yet it just stands still now? oh well. The triple rashoumon was cool but why did the rashoumon look so gay? when the twins used it, it looked like a real hells gate but when oro summoned it, it looked like those rock blocks from mario. You know the ones that try to squish you when you get too close lol.


All in all decent episode but i miss the battles from the old naruto before shippuuden. The music so far has really been lacking, i remember when it used to give you chills back in the old naruto when they used to time it perfectly for the badass battle to come. the animation was great in this episode i hope they keep it up. oro is badass to the max but i want kyuubi to make him squirm some. too much staring from the kyuubi for my liking. I mean he swung his arm once and created a mini nuke explosion how about he run after oro and make oro work for his life heh. only thing i didn't really like was the mario block rashoumon other than that nice episode.

[Xyrox]

Decent t episode. I don't like all this massive chakra thing - That's what Bleach is for. I miss the 'ninja' battles. Tactic and combining techniques. Well, this is Naruto fighting so I shouldn't expect this, hope Shikamaru shows up soon (doubt it). :P

About Kyuubi just standing there, didn't they say that that the enormous chakra made it hard to move?

[Genma]

Why don't they use Orochimaru's theme song from the original episodes? It was so cool, srsly, and I don't think I've heard it once in the Shippuden episodes. :(

As for the episode itself, I thought it was pretty good. Decent action, not too many "omg freezeframe on a shocked character's face" moments, and a pretty solid sequence overall. Haven't read this chapter in the manga in forever, though, so I can't remember exactly how much is manga material... but whatever, they pulled it off pretty well.

I hope they keep this decent streak for the next arc, because if I recall correctly that one is badass and if they screwed it up I think I'd stop watching for a while.

[Killa-Eyez]

While I don't really disagree with this statement I'm not completely sure the Kyuubi could pull off that particular move if not for Naruto or atleast another source of chakra. The reasoning being those blue balls were not Kyuubi chakra and it seems odd it would have used two types like that if it didn't need to do so. As such I assume the blue balls are actually Naruto's natural chakra as its always been shown blue with the Kyuubi being red instead.

Purely speculation of course as we have no way to prove or disprove it,

While it's pretty obvious that the blue chakra is Naruto's and the red the Kyuubi's, I still really don't think he would've need Naruto to do the move... He could've just used his own chakra instead of combining it with Naruto's. He prolly used Naruto's because the Kyuubi is not in his original state, meaning he doesn't have his usual amount of chakra making Naruto's chakra usefull to make the blast a little more powerfull.
I seriously doubt he would need Naruto for this. Though all I'm stating is not fact, just based on what I see in the anime... I think it's time for me to finally read the manga. :p


Give me a break. Oro was even less serious in his fight against the Third. Maybe the moment when his hands began to rot he was serious for the first time in that fight. Before that, he just smoked his cigars at leisure while the Third was fighting against his deus ex zombies.

And it surely didn't seem to me like he would have had any special ways to immediately defeat four tails. He didn't have any super zombies at hand and as we saw the mini-kyuubi was perfectly capable of disintegrating anything it touched. Oro was never in any truly real danger because he could have withdrawn at any point as the kyuubi was content at standing still, but that doesn't mean defeating it would have been that easy.

Kay, Oro might've not been that serious against the Third, but he was serious enough to get him killed... Also the Third was weak, and he was fighting his formal desciple and the mixed emotions that comes with that. That just made the work for Oro easier. So if he would get truly serious against the Kyuubi...

Kay, he might not have defeated the Kyuubi with ease, but defeat him, I think he would've. I'm not talking about killing the Kyuubi but I'm sure Oro's got a couple of sneaky Jutsu's up his sleave. Oro up till now has been a great example of a Ninja. And I think a Ninja isn't just about killing each other, but to get their goals accomplished using any means necessary. Oro would do just that.


He said best battle in Shippuuden, not best battle in Naruto.

I think using "Naruto" he meant both Naruto and Shippuuden, as a whole.

[darkmetal505]

I don't think Oro is playing around, he just seems to be, well, enjoying it. He did, after all, take notice that the Kyuubi's attack had the potential to kill him and subsequently summoned a defense that wouldn't be considered a product of "playing around."

[Darknodin]

I liked that ep...

to everyone saying that kyuubi could move pretty fast. its been quite clearly said that he couldn't. The chakra is preventing his movements. that's why he didn't move at all during the fight (only the chakra attacked)

[Kraco]

You would think the normal situation is that when the chakra is running out a person could do nothing but stand still and pant... Until now lots of chakra certainly has hindered nobody. Naruto has been considered a monster because he can keep moving despite using vast amounts of chakra and strength.

Yay for the forgotten consistency...

[poopdeville]

So it's that obvious? Or are ya just spilling out some spoilers? Because the chakra balls didn't look like a high-levelled skill such as the Rasengan, but they just looked like... ehhm... "chakra balls".
http://i13.tinypic.com/8541xqp.jpg
See any differences? Maybe because the Kyuubi is that powerfull, it is capable of shooting big-ass purple chakra balls at any given time? Sure as heaven that blast was not taught the Kyuubi by Naruto. :rolleyes:


Yes, it is obvious. We already know chakra is "explosive". The only way we know of to make chakra balls is to compress and rotate it randomly, using the image training Jiraiya gave Naruto to control it. Chakra won't stay looking like a ball unless someone is compressing it. It will blow up, like it did in Naruto's mouth cannon when he stopped compressing it.

We also already know that the Rasengan changes color depending on the size and amount of chakra used. Remember the purple Rasengan Naruto used against Stage II Sasuke?

Yamato and Orochimaru recognized the chakra balls as Rasengans. As Yamato explained, the Kyuubi's chakra was essentially spilling out of its container (Naruto) and trying to take the shape of the real Kyuubi. The fact that Naruto was able to

I didn't say that Naruto taught it to the Kyuubi. I said Naruto did the attack, using Kyuubi's chakra. Sure, it wasn't even exactly all Naruto, since his instincts were to become more like the Kyuubi. Obviously Naruto alone wouldn't have been able to pull of a Rasengan of that scale. And he might not have even thought of it without the Kyuubi's instincts. But it seems very clear to that they need each other to pull off that move.

[Abdula]

Dude that is not Naruto and those were not rasengans. They recognized the balls as chakra just chakra not rasengans. The fact that the rasengan changed color during the battle with Sasuke was because he was using the Kyuubi and if it was Naruto it would still be blue. Naruto has not taught anything to the Kyuubi nor is the Kyuubi able to do such an attack because of Naruto its all Kyuubi.

God somebody makes a ball of chakra and it must then be a rasengan. Medical ninjas make balls of chakra all the time in different colors too, so what. The relationship you are suggesting exists between Naruto and the Kyuubi simply doesn't. Naruto may be useless without the Kyuubi but the Kyuubi certainly doesn't need an idiot like Naruto. The Kyuubi is sentient chakra and using its chakra it can do whatever the hell it wants it can use the chakra however it wants in whatever shape or form.

The Kyuubi's chakra comes in many shapes and forms for example. it can form a cloak of armor around Naruto, it can form separate arms, heads, tails what have you, sometimes it appears in the form of normal chakra as in Naruto's battles against Neji and Gaara or it can come in a solid form like it is around Naruto now or it can be in a liquid form like during Naruto's battle with Sasuke or when his tails just begin forming. It can even come as it did in the last episode when Naruto attacked Kabuto or back when Naruto fought Sasuke, as wind. When Kabuto was attacked here he made it a point to say that Naruto attacked him with just his chakra and when Naruto was fighting Sasuke he literally blew away Sasuke's fire jutsus and again they made a point in saying that it was using just chakra although it appeared to be a white gust of wind. Its sentient chakra it can do whatever it wants if it wishes to take the form of a ball of chakra it has nothing to do with the fact that Naruto happens to know a technique that is a ball of chakra and I've already told you why this technique isn't the rasengan.

I've noticed that someone said that the blue balls of chakra were Naruto's chakra, wow. Uh its not that is not how it works there isn't and never has been any "mixing" of the chakra. Its the Kyuubi's chakra and its Naruto's chakra either or never both. They cannot be simultaneously used and they never have been. I could go into a long explanation but instead I'll just give you some example's, when Jiraiya first taught Naruto the summoning he had to make Naruto use up all his chakra before he could use the Kyuubi's and during Naruto's battle with Neji, Neji sealed Naruto's chakra but Naruto could still use the Kyuubi's that is because they are separate. The seal allows Naruto to gain access to the Kyuubi's chakra but they don't mix he can't use his chakra then use the Kyuubi's then go back to his or use both at the same time it doesn't work that way. Once he uses up his chakra and begins using the Kyuubi's then its the Kyuubi's until whatever amount he took is all used up then he is out of chakra that simple.


You would think the normal situation is that when the chakra is running out a person could do nothing but stand still and pant... Until now lots of chakra certainly has hindered nobody. Naruto has been considered a monster because he can keep moving despite using vast amounts of chakra and strength.

Yay for the forgotten consistency...

There is no inconsistency here Naruto is not considered a monster because he can move using vast amounts of the Kyuubi chakra. He is considered a monster because he has access to the Kyuubi's vast amount of chakra. Until now using lots of chakra hasn't hindered anyone while that is "true" but for one exception that I don't care to talk about, there is a reason for that. Until now no one has used the amount of chakra that Naruto is currently using but more importantly the other people's chakra has been naturally generated. We've seen guys using large amounts of chakra but all their chakra with the exception of Gaara has been naturally generated. Meaning its their own chakra so not only is their body used to the chakra itself but its their chakra they produce naturally meaning they aren't able to generate more chakra than their body will be able to handle.

Not only is the Kyuubi chakra "foreign" to Naruto, there is far more chakra than he could ever produce naturally meaning its more than his body can handle, not only that but the chakra surrounding his body as was stated before is a solid cloak of armor. Not only would anyone have trouble moving in a cloak of armor covering their entire body but the Kyuubi's armor as you can see is very dense. It was also stated that not only is it a cloak of armor but the armor as was shown is destroying the very body it is protecting, the reason Naruto is able to move at all is because while the Kyuubi's chakra is destroying his body it is simultaneously repairing it.


Where there is and always has been inconsistency is in the coloring of chakra in Naruto. Its something that has always bothered me and I never understood why they did it and since some of you are making a point about it now I think I should talk about it. Example the blue balls of chakra you saw floating around Naruto aren't supposed to be blue. Though the manga is in black and white there are often colored pages included and in one of those the balls around the Kyuubi were red and purple. Red being the chakra's normal color and purple the color it turns into when condensed. There are many other examples such as when Naruto used the Odama rasengan against Itachi, it was red in the manga which it should be since Naruto was clearly using the Kyuubi's chakra but they chose to make it blue.

I don't know how it could be blue since Naruto was using the Kyuubi's chakra his whiskers were prominent as it always gets when he is using the Kyuubi's chakra and even his eyes had turned red but yet the rasengan was blue. Even in the moments just before the attack when Naruto was trying to break out of Itachi's genjutsu he was using the Kyuubi's chakra which was red. I think that that was a major slip up in the anime not that slip ups are uncommon in Naruto.

A few other examples when Akatsuki were sealing Gaara Skukaku's chakra appeared to be red but I was always under the impression that only the Kyuubi's chakra was red. Another early example and this was way early was when Kakashi was fighting Zabuza. Other than the Raikiri which is blue Kakashi's chakra is supposed to be white because his dad had white hair, a white blade(I think) and white chakra hence the name White fang and Kakashi was supposed to have inherited that from his father. Yet in his battle with Zabuza when they were releasing chakra getting ready for battle, the chakra around him was blue and that was not the only time.

Since I mentioned the raikiri another example of mis-coloration was when CS2 Sasuke used the chidori against Naruto low level chidori is or can be white and higher levels are blue. For some reason they decided to make Sasuke's chidori black which didn't make any sense to me and I think that was only done to emphasize that this one was stronger than his normal one which was obvious. Naruto's rasengan turning purple didn't make sense either especially since later on the Odama rasengan was shown to be red and the Kyuubi itself, which is greatest condensation of its chakra, was red.

This just goes to show that you can't really base anything off of the color of chakra in Naruto, hell in the first two Narutimate games the chakra was yellow you would think that someone would have noticed that earlier.

[KrayZ33]

the new ending is/was nice :O

[Killa-Eyez]

@ Abdula:

First off, stop making these long-ass posts! Damn! :p
Second, I don't really know about the colouring of chakra, but I've always stated the obvious by thinking Naruto's chakra was distinctively blue as the Kyuubi's was red. So by mixing the 2 it would turn purple yes. I pretty much still think of it as I said in my previous post. And remember, Naruto has been training for 3 years, wich could mean that the Kyuubi and Naruto could have come to some sort of understanding and found a way to mix both chakra's.

@ poopdeville:

Abdula pretty much said what I was going to say, because it really isn't that obvious... As you said yourself, compressing chakra by rotating it is called the Rasengan. Sure it kinda looks like it, but I still don't see any rotating in the balls surrounding four tailed Kyuubi.
Though I've read somewhere that the rotating could've been that fast that it looks solid, but that has yet to be proven. Yes, Rasengan is pretty much the only way we know how Naruto, Jiraiya and the Fourth? control chakra into a ball... But ask yourself, how much do you know about the Kyuubi? What makes you think he can't form a ball of chakra? Have you ever seen him fight without being sealed in some boy? All I'm saying is that I don't see where you're basing this on, so there for it is not obvious to me that those balls are Rasengans. I'm not saying that they aren't cause that hasn't been proved (yet) in the anime, but it also hasn't been proved it was. How about waiting a couple of ep's to find out? :rolleyes:

[Abdula]

I highly doubt that during Naruto's training that he would have come to some agreement with the Kyuubi. One if he did he should be able to better use and control the Kyuubi if indeed their chakra was mixing which isn't the case since we've seen this situation and what happened when he was trying to rescue Gaara.

Another reason why I don't think they will ever mix is because of the seal, the seal is there to prevent the Kyuubi from overpowering Naruto because Naruto can't do it for himself. So if they were indeed mixing not only is the Kyuubi's chakra more powerful that Naruto's but there is such a large amount of chakra that the Kyuubi would completely overpower Natuto's chakra and take complete control of him.

Much like what we're seeing now the two chakras don't "cooperate" Naruto uses his own chakra to fight off and suppress the Kyuubi's. So despite the benefits of having the Kyuubi, there is a battle going on inside Naruto for control, a battle that the Kyuubi is winning in spite of the seal. So I highly doubt there is any mixing of chakra because that is the purpose of the seal to prevent the mixing of the chakras so the Kyuubi can't take control of Naruto.


About those blue balls of chakra, lets just think of it this way. The Kyuubi is a demon fox that produces limitless amounts of chakra. Why in the four tailed form where the Kyuubi has complete control of Naruto would it need to use Naruto's chakra even though it has its own limitless amount of chakra at its disposal. I mean the very reason Naruto relies on the Kyuubi is because not only is the Kyuubi's chakra better but there is so much of it, a limitless supply in fact. So if the very reason Naruto relies on the Kyuubi is for the chakra why would he then in Kyuubi form use his own.

Not to mention that just by looking at the blue balls of chakra you can obviously tell that its not normal chakra. Despite the color, from the way its looks, moves and acts it obvious that it is the kyuubi's chakra and not Naruto's. Plus from the number of the blue balls alone that would be more chakra than Naruto could produce again meaning that its the Kyuubi's chakra.


Again balls of chakra aren't uncommon. We've have seen many different people form them, Kakashi, Tsunade, Sakura, Chiyo and Kabuto all have made balls of chakra in the past. If you think of it even Neji's rotation is a ball of chakra. He releases a large amount of chakra and surrounds his body with it in the the shape of a large sphere and then spins his body to rotate it.

So balls of chakra aren't anything special plenty of people have done it, even before Naruto learned to use the rasengan to first thing Jiraiya taught him, using those balls was to turn his chakra into the shape of a ball and that was before he could even use the rasengan. Even the Chidori when its just forming is a ball of chakra in Kakashi's and Sasuke's hands. All it is, is manipulating the shape of your chakra and anyone can do that.

[KrayZ33]

About those blue balls of chakra, lets just think of it this way. The Kyuubi is a demon fox that produces limitless amounts of chakra. Why in the four tailed form where the Kyuubi has complete control of Naruto would it need to use Naruto's chakra even though it has its own limitless amount of chakra at its disposal. I mean the very reason Naruto relies on the Kyuubi is because not only is the Kyuubi's chakra better but there is so much of it, a limitless supply in fact. So if the very reason Naruto relies on the Kyuubi is for the chakra why would he then in Kyuubi form use his own.


i only read your posts partly because they are so freaking long and actually they are only filled with suggestions stated as facts.. however this jumped in my eye...

i think this is because he does drain a fixed amount from the kyuubi and that is what you said earlier too.. so he doesn't have an unlimited amount.... lets make this clear with numbers

naruto has 500 chakra points now he drains power from the kyuubi and has 2k chakra points.. so he got like 1500 chakra points from the ninetails.

he can use techniques which take up to 1500 chakra points as much as he wants as long as he can stand the pain of letting the kyuubis chakra go through his body.. however if he wants to make a technique which takes 2000 chakra points he has 2 options.

he can drain even more chakra from the kyuubi which will have side effects(loosing control for example).. or he uses his own chakra... i can't agree on the comment that the kyuubi's chakra and naruto's can't mix... i won't accept that because we can't be sure.. if what you say is correct and naruto's chakra supress the kyuubi then why can he transform into it even though he hasn't made a single technique which used up his chakra?

what we are doing right now is pointless... even though i think you have your points there..but still these are only suggestions and so are mine.

btw i m pretty sure that they said something during the chuunin exam or at some point earlier that a part of the kyuubi's chakra flows constantly through naruto's chakra veins... i can't give you the episode or scene though...

[Abdula]

He hasn't made techniques that uses his chakra as you put it because at this point Naruto himself just doesn't have the amount of chakra that it takes to fight an opponent like Oro or Deidara.

Also what you said before goes against my first point. As with the summoning jutsu or when he was attempting to break out of Itachi's genjutsu if Naruto has 500 and needs more he has to rely on the Kyuubi. The down side to this is instead of teaching his body to create more chakra when he needs it his limit will always be 500 because he relies on the Kyuubi if he requires more. However his limit has and will increase naturally simply because he is growing so his body is getting bigger but its no where near the amount it could be if he trained.

Again as in his battle with Itachi or his battle with Gaara would be a better example if he takes 1500 from the Kyuubi and that turns out to not be enough he can't go back to using his own chakra he has to take more from the Kyuubi. The problem is that their is a limit to much chakra he can control and there is a limit to how much chakra he can actually take from the Kyuubi.

The reason why Naruto can transform is obvious, sometimes to fight he requires more chakra than he can produce so he can fight so he then relies on the Kyuubi.

The reason he transformed here even though he hasn't used his own chakra is as Jiraiya said when Naruto gets angry he loses control and instead of relying on his own chakra and his own strength he taps straight into the Kyuubi. The reason he can't use both is pretty simple as you see when he uses the Kyuubi chakra it fills up his body with chakra and the chakra then pours out of him. So if the Kyuubi chakra begins essentially overflowing from him it would ofcourse push his own chakra out first which is why Naruto couldn't use the Kyuubi in the beginning when Jiraiya tried to teach him the summoning. His own chakra was in the way so he needed to use it up first but as Jiraiya said when he pushed Naruto off the cliff his body would learn to be able to use the Kyuubi's chakra without Naruto needed to expend all off his own chakra first and now that Naruto is able to use so much of the Kyuubi's chakra it simply pushes his own out of the way.

[DB_Hunter]

Something off topic, but I propose a 200 word limit per post. Anything more is too long to read.

[redcat]

but then abdula would have to leave his house or something.

please, think of the children.

[KrayZ33]

as long as i don't have to scroll down to see the full post, its fine...

[Abdula]

Once again I'll have to ask why you guys are on a forum if you have a problem reading. I'm guessing most of you agree with my last post since I don't see any rebuttals, just you guys complaining about lengthiness.

[Narasho]

As I stated earlier, I felt that this episode lacked the sort of adrenaline rush I am used to getting when watching great fights in Naruto. So, I tried watching the episode starting at the part right after Orochimaru says "so that's how you're going to fight after having swallowed all of that chakra.. blah blah blah". Anyways, it shows Kyuubi Naruto again, and at that part I started playing the song "Anger" from the Naruto Shippuuden soundtrack. (I felt this episode lacked good music during the fight) So, I had that song playing in the background while watching. It fit almost perfectly, and made that part of the episode much more enjoyable, at least for me.

[Killa-Eyez]

@ Abdula

Seriously, enough with the long posts man, your making it boring for us to post! Cut us some slack dude! :D Let's just wait a few eps and see what happens? And no, I don't agree with some of your points but let's keep it at that.

[KrayZ33]

nah he seems right.. its just that nobody listens to him becuase of the length of his posting (dude that is not good :P)
he's basically saying when naruto drains power from the nine tails, his own chakra will be "thrown out" by the nine-tail's (if there is any left)
so that's why there can't be any blue chakra balls since *naruto* himself has no chakra left.

the rest was not so important.. maybe the part with the training.. naruto wasn't angry when he tried to summonthat big frog, thats why he always tried to use his own chakra which was simply not enough..

when he was out of chakra jiraya threw him down the cliff so that naruto has to use the chaka of the ninetails.. because otherwise he couldn't survive that fall.

[DB_Hunter]

Once again I'll have to ask why you guys are on a forum if you have a problem reading. I'm guessing most of you agree with my last post since I don't see any rebuttals, just you guys complaining about lengthiness.


I don't read your posts.

[Vash72]

Fantastic episode, enjoyed the battle sequence, fluid animation, high tension, Oro pulling out some disgusting awesome techniques and finally we see some new techniques from the Naruto/Kyuubi synthesis.

Abdula: As I doubt you have any contact with the authors or writing team behind Shipudden you should really stop arguing your points as if they were based on fact (also known as Constructionism). Your opinions are just that, opinions (not fact). Perhaps you should allow others the privilege of holding differing opinions without always criticising them and proposing your own views as superior.

Cheers,
Vash

[Vash72]

Sorry, double post ....

[DarthEnderX]

About those blue balls of chakra, lets just think of it this way. The Kyuubi is a demon fox that produces limitless amounts of chakra. Why in the four tailed form where the Kyuubi has complete control of Naruto would it need to use Naruto's chakra even though it has its own limitless amount of chakra at its disposal. I mean the very reason Naruto relies on the Kyuubi is because not only is the Kyuubi's chakra better but there is so much of it, a limitless supply in fact. So if the very reason Naruto relies on the Kyuubi is for the chakra why would he then in Kyuubi form use his own. The Kyuubi's chakra probably isn't "limitless" unless he has access to all 9 of his tails. As the more tails manifest, the more chakra seems to become available.

[Yukimura]

Lol save your breath Vash, history has shown Abdula will always post exactly what he thinks which will include his reasoning for thinking everyone who disagrees with him is wrong, which he has done here.

Anyway
** Steps on Soap Box
@Abdula: Don't go thinking that just because people are ignoring what you say you are automatically 'right'. Your argument about the blue chakra sphere's doesn't seem to stand on much other than that you don't think it was like that in the manga. However this is not the manga forum and the manga is not supposed to have any bearing on the discussions here (though since all the mods have left it really effectively doesn't matter). Still in Naruto the anime, Kyubii Naruto shat out balls of what looked like Normal (blue) and Kyubii (Red) chakra, your points seem to patently deny this Blue chakra could have been Naruto's chakra because normal and kyubii chakra have supposedly never mixed before AND it's not what appeared to have happened in the manga.

Well to the first point there's a first time for everything and the argument that something unprecedented didn't happen because it's unprecedented is just silly (even if the unprecedented thing makes no contextual sense this is shounen, it doesn't have to make sense). And to the second point, as I said, this is (supposedly) an anime discussion, if the people here are interested in the manga they should read it and talk about it there, otherwise they shouldn't have to read posts involving a comparison of the differences between the manga and anime in the anime discussion section. If anything you should be complaining in the manga thread about how the anime is altering the impressions of things from the way they appeared in the manga, but the anime is the anime and what happens in it is all the Narutoverse that exists for many people and you have no right to stomp all over that with your manga prophecies.

**Steps off soap box**

The whole idea of the bubbles seems like a GFX gimmick regardless of what color they were. I mean Kyubiruto essentially tossed them out of his body, compressed them, put them back in his body, and then spat them out. I don't see what purpose the intermediate steps served other than looking cool. If he could eat that thing without completely exploding instantly why couldn't it have simply been compressed internally and then spat out...

[SilentSnake]

I think this will come in handy, I did read most of the things you all wrote here btw.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ayy1aXSoXc

to sum up :

1. 2 kinds of chakra can be used to create a technique even if naruto's is small part.

2. Kyuubi is huge:p

3. This is the very moment i wrote about before proving that Kyuubi dies with Naruto.

4. Jiraiya was explaining to Naruto somewhere in this or ep before that he has 2 kinds of chakra - blue and red (y, we discussed it already). My point is -> anime fantasy for colouring or was it in fact in the manga?

I win:D

one last : random chakra balls didn't spin at all inside, why would anyone think they were rasengans ?? :confused:

[DarthEnderX]

The whole idea of the bubbles seems like a GFX gimmick regardless of what color they were. I mean Kyubiruto essentially tossed them out of his body, compressed them, put them back in his body, and then spat them out. I don't see what purpose the intermediate steps served other than looking cool. If he could eat that thing without completely exploding instantly why couldn't it have simply been compressed internally and then spat out...You know what else was weird?

Supposedly all that chakra came out of naruto. But it wasn't until after he compressed it into this little ball of dark matter and reingested it that it became incredibly heavy.

So...regular chakra is weightless, and compressed chakra weighs alot? Even though it's originally the same amount of chakra?

Interesting.

[SilentSnake]

You know what else was weird?

Supposedly all that chakra came out of naruto. But it wasn't until after he compressed it into this little ball of dark matter and reingested it that it became incredibly heavy.

So...regular chakra is weightless, and compressed chakra weighs alot? Even though it's originally the same amount of chakra?

Interesting.

Might be like air -> theoretically weightless, but when you pump a ball with air it does weigh more.

I consider it a way to just show that it was an incredible amount of chakra put into it.

[Kraco]

Might be like air -> theoretically weightless, but when you pump a ball with air it does weigh more.

The air density at sea level is about 1.2 kg/m3. It's not weightless. Especially not theoretically weightless. Moreover, I think chakra is some sort of energy so speaking about weight is probably irrelevant.

[Abdula]

i only read your posts partly because they are so freaking long and actually they are only filled with suggestions stated as facts..

even though i think you have your points there..but still these are only suggestions and so are mine.


I really can't understand why you guys feel the need to always state that even though I myself have done it on many occasions. Yes it is an anime forum and actually no one knows, its all just theories, hypotheses, and speculation. There are things in Naruto on which these are based but even those aren't concrete since even the rules of the Naruto world can and are changed rather often.


nah he seems right.. its just that nobody listens to him becuase of the length of his posting (dude that is not good :P)


That is just stupid. I honestly don't care whether I'm right or not its just my opinion but if people ignore my posts because of the lengthiness then that negates the time I take to type them. Although its only a few minutes but I try to read every post in every thread I read but thats just me.


I don't read your posts.

That is both ignorant and untrue.



Abdula: As I doubt you have any contact with the authors or writing team behind Shipudden you should really stop arguing your points as if they were based on fact (also known as Constructionism). Your opinions are just that, opinions (not fact). Perhaps you should allow others the privilege of holding differing opinions without always criticising them and proposing your own views as superior.

Cheers,
Vash

If someone is on the forum and holding differing opinions and not stating them then there really isn't much point to them being here. Its a forum if you have an opinion post it. I'm also well aware of my style of writing but that doesn't mean that my opinions are right nor should you think it means that I think they are superior to anyone else's.

I already know my opinion the reason I'm here is simply to state it, read others and then discuss the similarities and/or differences. If one of you guys has an opinion and doesn't feel like you are able or should post because of something I did then sorry but you should know better. Seriously if someone has something to say and they didn't because of me then they must not have had any strong opinions in the first place.

By the way I very much like your style, oh and Ignore Yuki's comments at the beginning of his post.


The Kyuubi's chakra probably isn't "limitless" unless he has access to all 9 of his tails. As the more tails manifest, the more chakra seems to become available.

Uh I think I should clear this up. What I mean is that the Kyuubi itself supposedly has limitless chakra I don't mean to suggest that Naruto has access to that amount of chakra as yet. I already said that there is a limit to the amount of chakra he has access to.

@ Yuki: very disappointed that you think I could be that ignorant and I wasn't "discussing" the manga I just gave a few examples to show that the color of chakra isn't much to go on.

I also think that expelling the chakra from his body, just to compress and ingest it only to expel it again was a complete waste. Think it was done just for show, more specifically just to show that the Kyuubi has a large amount of chakra to waste something we all already know.

I think it would have been much more logical and effective if the Kyuubi had just compressed the chakra within itself in the first place and then suddenly fired it out. It should have been much easier for it to compress the chakra within Naruto's body and the Kyuubi suddenly firing a massive beam of chakra at Oro would have been far more impressive than having to take all the time it did to build it up.

I mean its the Kyuubi if it has to take so much time to build up the chakra to create a powerful attack then whats the point. The kyuubi is supposed to be a huge mass of chakra and transformed Naruto is supposed to have that chakra at his disposal if he has to take that much time to create and attack that still ends up being blocked its a complete waste.


@ SilentSnake: That video could also go to my point that using the Kyuubi's chakra forces Naruto's out first.

@ Darkender: Regular chakra is not weightless. If you look at the battle between Oro and The third for example the anbu ninjas who were watching the battle said that by just being so close to the two of them the weight of their chakras was pushing down on them and making it hard to move. Its sounds alot like Bleach to me anyway, the point is that regular chakra isn't weightless and compressed chakra especially the amount the Kyuubi is using must weigh exponentially more.

[SilentSnake]

SilentSnake: That video could also go to my point that using the Kyuubi's chakra forces Naruto's out first.

Never said it didn't, but no chakra = person dies.

By the way we were shown it was just that Naruto wanted Kyuubi to lend him chakra, wasn't really shown that it forces out Naruto's first, it was more like Jiraiya's way to force Naruto to use Kyuubi's chakra for the first time consciously.

Either way, you can make a jutsu with 2 chakra types IF you possess them, if we use the info we were shown that is.

Kraco = what I meant by theoretically weightless was that we don't literally feel it's 'weigh' on us, but there of course is pressure. It was only a comparison.

We don't really know what happened inside Noob-iruto, since chakra is a body's product we don't know much about (at least about specifics we talk about now) we can just assume that it has some kind of weigh to it.

1 ton of feathers being 1 ton of feathers, so if we compress it it's still 1 ton of feathers, right? :p

That's at least the way I perceive it by what was shown in the story.

[Abdula]

Yeah one ton of feathers is one ton of feathers. So one ton of chakra should be one ton of chakra but if you compress the chakra it would take up less space so although it would weigh the same it would seem heavier and it would be alot harder to use.

Yeah you can make a jutsu with two types of chakra sure I'll accept that but there is no evidence that Naruto can use the two types of chakra simultaneously. One the seal is there and two Naruto is an idiot, he can barely manage to use one type properly so I highly doubt he could use two.:D

Anyway like I said before everything else suggests that its either or not both. Either he is using his chakra or he is using the Kyuubi's chakra. I would think if he was indeed using both one of the characters would comment on it since they regularly talk about such things.

[SilentSnake]

He managed to pull it off with gamabunta summoning though. So Naruto gotta be close to death to be able to use a jutsu with both chakra types simultaneously:p (I don't think he's that good at chakra control neither, since the 1st ep we're being told he sucks at chakra control after all)

But honestly, since Naruto isn't in control I don't expect him to do such a complicated thing, but I do believe Kyuubi can. Why is he using some of Naruto's chakra then?

1. Naruto just allows it, since he's controled by Kyuubi and he started the transformation himself after all.

2. We can use the 500/1500 chakra "theory" (:p). This jutsu needs more chakra than Kyuubi can leak through the seal so he borrows some of Naruto's.

We've known for sennen (goroshi) that seal is weakening and that's probably one of the reasons all of this is taking place, which is also why your argument with seal being there is being ignored by me.

EDIT: I think it's not that big of a deal with them not commenting on 2 types of chakra, they sometimes explain some stuff and sometimes don't.

[Abdula]

There is nothing yet to convince me that the seal is breaking. Its still intact both on Naruto's body and in that dimension where he talks to the Kyuubi. There has also never been any evidence that any seal would just break over time. When Oro sealed Naruto for example he said the only way Naruto would be able to use the Kyuubi is if the seal is removed and it was. If any seal was going to break you would think one as simple as that would have been easily broken. Another thing is that seals are supposed to be permanent, like the sealing statue Akatsuki uses I don't consider that to be as powerful as the one the fourth used and that contains multiple beasts but nothing suggests that its breaking. So don't see the seal breaking without some outside interference.

I think whats happening here is this, the seal in Naruto is intact but the seal allows Naruto to gain access to the Kyuubi and Naruto is simply using more and more of the Kyuubi's power. Look at the seal Kakashi put on Sasuke's curse seal for example, that seal was working fine whether it was effective or not completely depended on if Sasuke wanted it to be.

Its just hard for me to believe that the fourth gave his life and used his most powerful attack to create a seal that would break in a fews years. I mean it did use a shinigami and if the seal on Naruto is breaking then the first four hokages will be released eventually then because they were sealed using the same technique and Sarutobi said it was for eternity. I mean why would the fourth give his life to seal the Kyuubi if it only meant that the Kyuubi would be released a few years later.

So because of the reasons I stated above I really don't think the seal is breaking. Naruto has access to the Kyuubi and he has control over the seal and just how much chakra is released. Why else would the Kyuubi be asking Naruto to remove the seal, if it was indeed breaking there would be no need for him to do that.

However if the seal was under Naruto's control then Naruto would be able to dictate just how much chakra is released and whether or not the Kyuubi is released just like Gaara was able to control if Shukaku is released or not. To transform to the state he is in, they showed us that Naruto actually traveled behind the seal to where the Kyuubi is.

[Narasho]

There is nothing yet to convince me that the seal is breaking. Its still intact both on Naruto's body and in that dimension where he talks to the Kyuubi. There has also never been any evidence that any seal would just break over time. When Oro sealed Naruto for example he said the only way Naruto would be able to use the Kyuubi is if the seal is removed and it was. If any seal was going to break you would think one as simple as that would have been easily broken. Another thing is that seals are supposed to be permanent, like the sealing statue Akatsuki uses I don't consider that to be as powerful as the one the fourth used and that contains multiple beasts but nothing suggests that its breaking. So don't see the seal breaking without some outside interference.

I think whats happening here is this, the seal in Naruto is intact but the seal allows Naruto to gain access to the Kyuubi and Naruto is simply using more and more of the Kyuubi's power. Look at the seal Kakashi put on Sasuke's curse seal for example, that seal was working fine whether it was effective or not completely depended on if Sasuke wanted it to be.

Its just hard for me to believe that the fourth gave his life and used his most powerful attack to create a seal that would break in a fews years. I mean it did use a shinigami and if the seal on Naruto is breaking then the first four hokages will be released eventually then because they were sealed using the same technique and Sarutobi said it was for eternity. I mean why would the fourth give his life to seal the Kyuubi if it only meant that the Kyuubi would be released a few years later.

So because of the reasons I stated above I really don't think the seal is breaking. Naruto has access to the Kyuubi and he has control over the seal and just how much chakra is released. Why else would the Kyuubi be asking Naruto to remove the seal, if it was indeed breaking there would be no need for him to do that.

However if the seal was under Naruto's control then Naruto would be able to dictate just how much chakra is released and whether or not the Kyuubi is released just like Gaara was able to control if Shukaku is released or not. To transform to the state he is in, they showed us that Naruto actually traveled behind the seal to where the Kyuubi is.


When Kakashi was fighting Zabuza, in the first arc, at one point he sensed the Kyuubi's chakra. His immediate response showed him worrying if the seal had broken. (it's episode 16 or 17, I don't recall which) So, in that situation, what was causing Kakashi to believe the seal could be breaking?

This seal is different than the one Kakashi used on Sasuke, which utilized Sasuke's will as the primary component for that seal's success. This seal has a special name... I forget what it is called... maybe 4 element seal or something? Anyways, Orochimaru names the seal on episode 29 when Naruto goes berserk and fights him. At that point, the seal is very weakened and the Kyuubi's chakra is pouring out into Naruto. Orochimaru then re-seals it to prevent this from happening. Later on, Jiraiya unseals the seal so that Naruto can once again use the Kyuubi's chakra. So, even though the seal is "unsealed", it's still not broken. Meaning these are two separate things.

I do agree with your logic on the fourth sacrificing his life to seal the demon. I think to some extent Naruto being in control of his emotions may be the key to controlling the Kyuubi.

[SilentSnake]

I don't think it's breaking, but they did say it's weakening whatever that means.

I think it was Oro who said it first, that's why he put his seal on Naruto, but he (or me) just might confuse it with the innate ability of the seal to enable Naruto get Kyuubi's chakra at all.

AFAIK we are led to believe that the seal could break only if Naruto goes totally wacko and 9th tail appears.

About emotions -> they are a trigger to many things, we've seen that already in Naruto.

A friend of mine had this theory that sharingan is triggered by emotions.

IF IT AIN'T IN THE ANIME, DON'T FUCKING POST IT ABOUT IT
WARNED

Sasuke -> haku fight, faced death, and didn't want to die because of Itachi could be yet another motivation -> sharingan appears
Sasuke fights Naruto -> When Sasuke acknowledges Naruto being strong( not as strong as he was ofc) and they have all the emo talk -> 3rd dot in sharingan appears
Itachi's way to get MS -> kill your best friend

I don't know how much truth there is to it, but we can say for sure that emotions are indeed important ;)

[Abdula]

Good job quoting a spoiler. You've been warned also


Sasuke -> haku fight, faced death, and didn't want to die because of Itachi could be yet another motivation -> sharingan appears
Sasuke fights Naruto -> When Sasuke acknowledges Naruto being strong( not as strong as he was ofc) and they have all the emo talk -> 3rd dot in sharingan appears
Itachi's way to get MS -> kill your best friend

I don't know how much truth there is to it, but we can say for sure that emotions are indeed important ;)

I thought this was already widely accepted as truth. In fact everything short of them explicitly stating that suggests its true.

[Yukimura]

I agree with the conclusion that the seal is simply set up to allow chakra flow from Kyubii to Naruto (since it was explicitly stated when Jiraiya analyzed it way back when) but the reasons given as to why the seal is not (or could not) be breaking don't hold up well.

First inferring the properties of seals in general from Oro's five part seal seems hinky. When Jiraiya saw the seal Oro put on Naruto I believe he commented that only he or Tsunade or Sarutobi would have been able to remove it (or maybe Oro said that when he saw it had been removed) either way, Oro's seal was certainly potent by the standards of the common ninja it just wasn't that great by the standards of the Sannin and thus the standards of human possibility. Which leads in to my next point...

As godly as he may have been the Fourth was still just a man while the Kyubii is a Force of Nature. Human kind in all it's collective wisdom and power could still be wiped off the face of the Earth by forces of nature we'd have absolutely no way to control. Now, I don't doubt it's possible that the Fourth created a seal so strong that it could permanently trap a Force of Nature, this is Naruto after all, however it wouldn't surprise me in the least if even his best effort could only slow the Kyubii down but not permanently seal it away. The Kyubii should have the brute strength to smash through any simple physical barrier, so it would come down to if the Fourth was clever enough to create his seal in such a way that pushing against it with more and more power does not slowly erode it away and cause it to weaken and ultimately break.

Finally, even if the Fourth was sure his seal would wear off in time his only choices would have been seal it temporarily in a manner that would tie its fate to a human in the village for a while or let it keep rampaging and destroy everything in its path (namely the village). I would think a decent Hokage would lay down his life even if just to give his people a few more years of safety and time to figure out a better solution It's better to have 15+ years to come up with a plan than to be destroyed immediately.

As to the way the seal works I believe in the absorption theory, where the Kyubii's force in pushing against the seal is converted into energy that gets absorbed into Naruto's natural chakra pool. This process would happen relatively slowly but it would make Naruto stronger and stronger over time, at least in terms of chakra capacity. I think that if this mechanism is in place then it has a loophole (or flaw depending on how you look at it), where Naruto's will can bypass the conversion process and he can take chakra directly from the Kyubii without conversion. I think the Kyubii knows Naruto can't handle the amount of chakra it can force through a direct interface and since its chakra can carry its will, once Naruto draws out more chakra then he knows what to do with he ends up being controlled by the Kyubii chakra and poof Kyubiruto.

EDIT: Three posts above made while I was writing :(
Shame on SilentSnake!

[Abdula]

Damn you type slow then and yeah sorry I didn't clearly state my points. They could have been stated much clearer and there are other reasons why I stated those. Anway your absorption theory I think was already mentioned or atleast hinted at by Jiraiya and others.

In any case even if that isn't true pushing against the seal could simply cause the Kyuubi chakra to be released to the outside world or simply used by Naruto like he uses it up now but I think you're theory is correct.

Anyway I'm way to tired to make another long post, only been getting 3 hours of sleep for the last few months and I have yet to eat breakfast. Can't even think straight, time to go start some trouble anyway should be back by Friday hopefully.

[DarthEnderX]

Uh I think I should clear this up. What I mean is that the Kyuubi itself supposedly has limitless chakra I don't mean to suggest that Naruto has access to that amount of chakra as yet. I already said that there is a limit to the amount of chakra he has access to.At this point I think we determined that its actually the Kyuubi in control at this point. But with only 4 tails, I don't think the Kyuubi has access to all of his own chakra. That what I was saying anyway. So maybe he's using Naruto's because he has this attack, but doesn't have enough chakra to use it with only 4 tails.

[SilentSnake]

Oops, my bad, sorry for that, shippuden's fault! :p thx for fast reaction on this one.

Anyway, all the seal thing makes me think that it can be weakened only to some point and when it reaches it, it won't weaken anymore.

As I said before, I honestly doubt that it can just break by itself after some time, there's a pressure put on the seal by constant Kyuubi chakra activation and training so it's only natural for it to bend.

I wonder what would happen if there was no kakashi/jiraiya/yamato/opponent to stop naruto in one way or another from kyuubi state.

Ofc, why would Naruto go Kyuubi without a reason? but what if he meets an opponent that he just defeats and there is no ally to prevent going more kyuubi? Would seal make him stay 4-tails eventually knocking him uncionscious or would he slowly deteriorate and grow more tails up to the 9th?

[DarthEnderX]

I'm guessing after killing everything around him he'd just wind down on his own.

[Kraco]

Considering they said going Kyuubi causes damage to his body I imagine it must be pretty painful, and more so with each new tail, because the transformation into a demon form seems to increase step by step.

So, after the cause of anger has vanished, I reckon it'll happen like DE said: The anger will subside and he will head for a less painful state, that is, back towards the human form. Though thinking about the bigger picture there could be a peak value somewhere after which he can't return unless some exterior force encourages him to, but if there is such a peak I suspects it's closer to nine and not so low as four.

[HokageSama]

For those interested in the blue/red chakra, this has been stated in the anime before when Naruto was training with Jiraiya before the Chuunin exams.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=10ZdyiEVHpk

Naruto said it at around 4:30. For those who have downloaded the episode, it is Episode 53 @ 18:09

That is all.

[DarthEnderX]

Considering they said going Kyuubi causes damage to his body I imagine it must be pretty painful, and more so with each new tail, because the transformation into a demon form seems to increase step by step.And of course we're all looking forward to when he gets to 9 right at the end of the series.

Naruto vs. Kyuubi. There's your series climax right there.

[SilentSnake]

And of course we're all looking forward to when he gets to 9 right at the end of the series.

Naruto vs. Kyuubi. There's your series climax right there.

Naruto wins, defeated Kyuubi becomes a good guy cause Naruto is such a nice boi.

Kishi told me.

[masamuneehs]

Naruto wins, defeated Kyuubi becomes a good guy cause Naruto is such a nice boi.

Kishi told me.

as ludicrously stupid as the idea of an ancient, super powerful, evil demon beast reforming his ways because of a retarded ninja kid is, I can't help but imagine that this will happen somewhere along the way...

After all, it's the same cheesy plot they've been recycling from almost the beginning:
Naruto meets evil/wayward/dejected person - Naruto helps person confront problems - Person takes on Naruto's positive attitude / good ways from seeing how hard Naruto tries

(the notable exception here is Sasuke)

[Abdula]

Yeah but everyone else was a person Kyuubi is a freaking demon and most of the other characters weren't really bad to begin with they were just confused and misunderstood, like Gaara.

Besides Naruto's ability only seems to work on kids and old people.



At this point I think we determined that its actually the Kyuubi in control at this point. But with only 4 tails, I don't think the Kyuubi has access to all of his own chakra. That what I was saying anyway. So maybe he's using Naruto's because he has this attack, but doesn't have enough chakra to use it with only 4 tails.

One problem here, if the Kyuubi at four tails which is about 44% of its full power doesn't have enough chakra to do an attack then any minuscule amount of chakra Naruto could provide wouldn't make a difference. It'd be like adding an extra pound to something that already weighs a ton.

[DarthEnderX]

Deep down, Kyuubi wishes he was just a normal cuddly fox.