Naruto Shippuuden Episode 40-41

[Killa-Eyez]

DB's release. (http://www.dattebayo.com/t/ns040-041.torrent)

[NeoBear]

this is a joke right dont this come out next month?

[TwisT]

I have heard no such thing. Also DBs joke releases are named [YHBT] instead of [DB]. This is not named YHBT. So i would be suprised to say the least if this was a prank/joke/troll episode.

[Yukimura]

It's real, I'm watching it right now, also if you watch the preview it tells you when the next ep will air and the last one said Naruto Special December 20th.

EDIT after completion: Everything TwisT said below is correct. This episode took what I thought was the most highly anticipated event in the story and completely ruined it by dragging it out with lots of shots of the same scene from different angles. It was purly rising action (literary term), but they don't show any of the actual Action other than the epic bitch slap and the Kabuto ownage (which I must admit were awesome). But everything else was just froth... I could also have waited a week if it meant the animation wouldn't be horrible throughout the episode

[TwisT]

And next (042) will air January 10th.


I must say that this was the worst episode and worst special ever. They took half an episode and turned it into a double episode by having them stand on the bridge starring at each other for over an episode in lenght. At the end of the special he has just transformed in to 4tails something that should have happened right after the first break. This was without a doubt the worst and most drawn out episode they have made.

[dimitris127]

also in tv.com it said that the episode was to air in 20/12 so no fake

[Bleach4Me]

........why do I feel like they are on planet Namek?

[Maverick-DBZ-]

The hit Naruto did was awesome, but after that it was a really drawn out "setup" special for the really GOOD stuff to come.


At least now we know exactly who Yamato really is. That was nice, as I was thinking something slightly different. ;)

[Jeff_from_MD]

watching this was painful. Someone warn me the next time Naruto transforms like that, because I could use the sleep.

[Buffalobiian]

The hit Naruto did was awesome, but after that it was a really drawn out "setup" special for the really GOOD stuff to come.


At least now we know exactly who Yamato really is. That was nice, as I was thinking something slightly different. ;)

Well I'm not getting my hopes up. I thought this episode was gonna be good and look at what I get. T.T. It was a double too. Doubles my frustration. It's interesting now, knowing what the First can do, and why Yamato is assigned as their squad leader.

[DayoftheDante]

Yes, it sucks that the wait for the next one will be so long.

There was a lot of buildup here, but they managed to actually make the 4 tails transformation a little more interesting than it was in the manga. I don't recall the water-treading hallucinations or floating through the Kyuubi rot-iron gate, I thought it was done well. The flashbacks I could have done without, of course. I'll agree that there was too little action for a special-especially at this point in the story. But man, of the action we got, it was awesome to see Orochimaru get his face messed up and lose an arm to Naruto. An arm! Don't start with the "But Oro haxx0red and got them back," the last time it happened was a last ditch effort by a hokage level and Naruto hasn't even put effort into this yet. Aside from his diaphragm I mean.

The Sakura KO due to heat-seeking Kabuto forced a lol outta me.

[FullMetalAlchemist]

They seriously have no excuse for these long ass episodes of nothing, the first 20 min after the slap or ownage was just staring each other down. They have so much manga material why do they drag out each episode with flash backs, like 1-2 min of staring at each other mulitple times and making 1 chapter of 16 pages of manga = 1hour of naruto anime? There was't enough in that episode to even equal a regular 30 minute show >.<. Then to top it all off, no naruto until january 10th lol just awesome.

Funny how bleach is going to fast with the anime while it didn't have a huge gap between anime/manga, and naruto is going to slow with theres when they have alot of manga to use. They should switch writers.

At least they had a hilarious part with sakura literally getting hit with kabuto, an oro getting the biggest bitch slap in history.

[Mhalador]

I think that was the first time we actually had to wait for Naruto to attack someone.

[lilphatboi88]

Is Naruto working with Bleach to piss all the fans off? Why do they always make episodes where nothing happens and literally half the episode has no dialogue. They just sit and stare... I'd really like to give up watching these two animes, but I really got nothing better to do.

[DarthEnderX]

You know what, I didn't even notice till it was over how slow the episode was cause I was so fucking riveted during the thing.

I mean, it's the first time some really epic shit happened since the last series I think.

This really made me feel like shit was about to go crazy. The only way I'm gonna hate this episode is if the next one doesn't payoff for all this buildup. If Naruto vs. Orochimaru isn't awsome, then I'll complain.

But right now, all I'm thinking is how fucking awsome 4-tails Naruto looks.




I can only assume that this was a double episode for the same reason the last one was. i. e. they had two episodes in a row where almost nothing actually occured so they jammed it together to get through it in one week.

Oh yeah, Yamato's origin is pretty interesting. I'm wonder if now that Oro knows that technique of his can actually work, that if he ever loses Sasuke if he could just go make himself his own Uchiha.

[Death13a]

Naruto (anime) pwns DBZ in starring contest. Out of 43 minutes only 5minutes were worthwhile (30 seconds about yamato, 2 minutes about naruto /kuuby power and 2 and half minutes about naruto transformation). I only download Naruto to see him fight in Kuubi form. I wait till all episodes of this fight to come out then download so i can skip garbage.

[alpha826]

this episode wasnt as bad as most of you are saying, but i will agree that they dragged some shit out. though it does suck that we have to wait 3 weeks for the oro vs 4 tails fight....

4-tails naruto looked pretty badass, and at least the art and animation in the episode was rock solid.

[Assertn]

Yeah, there was a 20 minute block in there where I was about to punch my monitor if Naruto didn't make a move. SO FRUSTRATING AAUUAHHAHS


There was a lot of buildup here, but they managed to actually make the 4 tails transformation a little more interesting than it was in the manga. I don't recall the water-treading hallucinations or floating through the Kyuubi rot-iron gate, I thought it was done well.
That stuff was in the manga. Trust me, anything that was cool in this episode came from the manga.

The crazy skin shedding trick of Oro's is great....especially since it reminds you of how badass he used to be before his arms were sealed.

[Besu]

Naruto (anime) pwns DBZ in starring contest. Out of 43 minutes only 5minutes were worthwhile (30 seconds about yamato, 2 minutes about naruto /kuuby power and 2 and half minutes about naruto transformation). I only download Naruto to see him fight in Kuubi form. I wait till all episodes of this fight to come out then download so i can skip garbage.

Felt like the good old time yes. 20 min eps 2 min action

[DayoftheDante]

I thought that someone might call me on the manga material. I wasn't 100% about that stuff, and I think it's because I focused on what happened afterwards and forgot about the buildup. I'm just saying that it's cool to see the animation create something that I'll remember over the manga. I love how sometimes it makes things clear to you that you didn't understand fully from the manga cells. Like how it clarified Sasori's relationship with his "parent's" for me, as an example.

[Niner4959]

Did anyone notice Ino's rack at the end, during the Konoha Youth Exercise Club?

That was the only thing that made this episode worth downloading.

Looks like high quality animation coming up in episode 42.

[Belial]

never thought i could watch 40 mins in 7 mins and not miss anything at all, thank god for the 2 sec foward button

[Kraco]

Kabuto really is a tough bastard. Sakura was knocked senseless for a long time yet Kabuto himself only lost his glasses. Still, it amazes me how Yamato, Sakura, and Kabuto (and Sai in the beginning) didn't do anything but only watch Naruto and Orochimaru. You would think Yamato and Sakura would have tried to take Kabuto out of the picture in leisure while Oro was occupied with Naruto.

Kind of lousy tactical thinking all in all. But then again, since nobody anyway did nothing but stand and stare, I guess it makes perfect sense.

[Abdula]

Everything TwisT said below is correct. This episode took what I thought was the most highly anticipated event in the story and completely ruined it by dragging it out with lots of shots of the same scene from different angles. It was purly rising action (literary term), but they don't show any of the actual Action other than the epic bitch slap and the Kabuto ownage (which I must admit were awesome). But everything else was just froth... I could also have waited a week if it meant the animation wouldn't be horrible throughout the episode


And next (042) will air January 10th.
I must say that this was the worst episode and worst special ever. They took half an episode and turned it into a double episode by having them stand on the bridge starring at each other for over an episode in lenght. At the end of the special he has just transformed in to 4tails something that should have happened right after the first break. This was without a doubt the worst and most drawn out episode they have made.

Sounds like the Gaara arc all over again. Just like how they ruined Kakashi's MS, I guess that is their formula now get everybody hopes up, and ruin all the action scenes by drawing them out with bad animation no less. Well atleast we can expect some high quality emotional scenes when its all over.

[KrayZ33]

this wasn't the worst special @ all... however i have to admit that the first ten minutes sucked like hell...

they were just looking at each other faces and the scene was hopping from oro to naruto to kabuto to yamato to sakura to sai to naruto to kabuto to oro to yamato to sakura to naruto......to sai to naruto to oro to kabuto...

well but after he had his 3 tails out it was very good actually.... i liked the scene when oro was facing the nine tails, when sakura got knocked out, when naruto was "drowning".. well to sum it up the later part of episode 41 and the whole second part was awesome... i think some people are overreacting here, i've seen much worse.. this however was still fun to watch.. especially the end.

and who said that the animation was bad? it wasn bad at all... it was pretty good... i liked the slow motion effects.. sure... they are better animated animes, but it was still enjoyable

btw i think oro is an alien! ^^

ah and i think i will download like 4-6 episodes and watch them THEN... somehow the 1 or 2 week pause between the episodes make this series bad... if i watch all episodes at once it makes this anime more interesting

i dont understand one thing though... why the hell didn't oro use this "rebirth" technique when he lost his 2 arms against the third? he did not form any seals, did he?

[Abdula]

You know what contradictory to my above post I think you are right. This episode really wasn't as bad as it was made out to be. There was a lot of not necessarily action but excitement and there were a lot of great scenes although the animation was a bit shoty at times. The pacing was along the lines of the previous episodes as they are still just setting the stage for the battle. There were a few unnecessary flashbacks but the one where Jiraiya explained what happens to Naruto was good, although there were a few inconsistencies there, and the one with Sasuke and Naruto in the valley of end really set the tone for Naruto and showed you why he feels so desperate and helpless when it comes to Sasuke.

The most impressive thing in the episode was how unimpressed Kabuto and especially Orochimaru were with Naruto's power. This is the first time Naruto has impressed me albeit as Sai said it isn't Naruto's power, its the Kyuubi's but its impressive none the less. Orochimaru was completely unimpressed with Naruto up until he transformed to 4 tails and even when he was three tails, he said Naruto still didn't compare to Sasuke which really has me interested in just how strong Sasuke has gotten. Yamato and Sai showed off their abilities, Sakura showed everyone just how weak she still is and Orochimaru showed us just how impressive he is. He is standing up to the Kyuubi's power and he isn't even the least bit intimidated, I'd imagine that the scene where he was standing face to face with the Kyuubi was what the fourth had to deal with.

I think it can be said without question now that Oro would have easliy beaten Sasori, that one smack alone would've destroyed Sasori or anyone else for that matter. I look forawrd to seeing the rest of this battle and it will be especially fun to see the rest of Orochimaru's disgusting jutsus animated. Naruto was just as intimidating as I'd hoped he would have been, I think they captured the scenes from the manga well and although some slight changes were made absolutely nothing was lost.

- Four tailed Naruto looks and sounds just like a Chiropteran in that last scene. Actually the Chiropteran comparison came to me from Accel 2 because he really resembles one in the game.

[Janusz]

Oro's probably just saying that to piss Naruto off, it seems to be a hobby of his.

[DarthEnderX]

Which I can only assume is gonna get him killed someday.



Oh shit, I forgot about one of the most interesting things in the episode.

That apparently the 1st Hokage had the ability to make the tailed beasts into his pets....


Wtf?! Why hasn't THAT ever been mentioned before! I mean, the 3rd was really powerful, but how did he surpass a guy who can control fucking Tailed Beasts. How was that guy not Hokage right up until he died?

[Abdula]

Actually I don't think thats true, Oro doesn't actually like pissing him off, he is a "kind" villain he doesn't necessarily try to piss people off, he just speaks the truth. Like when he refers to Naruto as "the kyuubi boy" or Yamato as his lab rat its not to piss them off its the truth. As we've seen in the battle of in the valley of end, no one could generate as much power as Naruto but Sasuke could actually be stronger than Naruto is. I think he is absolutely stronger than normal Naruto, I just don't know how he would be able to deal with the Kyuubi.

The third didn't take over from the first hokage, the second did. The hokages usually retire once there is someone strong enough to take over their role as the third did when the fourth became hokage. Also no one claims that the third surpassed the first, the third was known as the strongest because of his knowledge of jutsu and the first being able to control Bijuu is obviously only because of his wood element techniques.

[Janusz]

the first being able to control Bijuu is obviously only because of his wood element techniques.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

[Abdula]

Um, because Orochimaru said that he wanted the first's mokuton because it gave him the ability to control the bijuu and he also said that that must be why they made Yamato the leader of Naruto's group because the mokuton gives him that ability. Something the flashback with Jiraiya and the others confirmed. Weren't you watching/reading?

Funny thing about that is that Orochimaru thinks that the leaf should be thankful to him because if it wasn't for him they wouldn't have had a way to even attempt to control the kyuubi.:) I agree, I wonder what other crazy experiments he had going on in the leaf before he left. "The world may never know."

[Genma]

Did anyone notice Ino's rack at the end, during the Konoha Youth Exercise Club?

That was the only thing that made this episode worth downloading.

Don't forget Lee's pink shirt. >:[

Anyways, I thought this episode was mediocre at best. It had its moments... but there was a lot of boring space in between, and they dragged on the transformation for way too long. Some of the animation was really bad as well.

[Assertn]

Um, because Orochimaru said that he wanted the first's mokuton because it gave him the ability to control the bijuu and he also said that that must be why they made Yamato the leader of Naruto's group because the mokuton gives him that ability.
No, if you want to be technical, he said he wanted the first's DNA.

So next ep is 4th tail vs oro. It's already been established that 4th tail vs jiraiya resulted in jiraiya being closer to death than he's ever been before, so next we get to see how well oro fares. :]

[Abdula]

Well the DNA was so he could get the mokuton. IF A=B & B=C then we could just leave B out altogether. Awe the transitive property, I never thought I would have ever had to use that.

Yes and I would like to see just what Jiraiya did against four tailed. I think Orochimaru should fare better because although I have no idea what Jiraiya did, I assume he tried to disable Naruto without killing him or damaging him even more than the Kyuubi was already doing whilst still trying to protect himself. Oro has no one to protect and certainly isn't going to have to hold back against Naruto in this battle for any reason thus he should fare much better than Jiraiya did.

[KrayZ33]

which of the animation was actually bad? the only thing that comes into my mind is when the wodden pieces from the bridge flew arround when he transformed into the 3 tails
well maybe i m just trained in ignoring the bad animation because i watched every single filler episode :P.

to oro:

i dont believe a single word he says, even though i like him very much!
he fought like 2 secs agains naruto and lost his arm if he is so superior then he shouldn't have a scratch at all and when sasuke is even STRONGER than naruto with his tails, than he wouldn't stay @ oros place, simply because he seeks power and has no need to stay with someone who is not as powerfull as himself...
oro wants to see naruto in a really pissed off state to see his true power and to gain information. Kabutos "suicide" action made me think that too.. i dont think kabuto is stupid enough to attack an opponent who is obviously 10 times stronger than himself

and oro does provoke him all the time "you will have to force it out of me,if you can that is", when naruto is trying to hold back his hatred.
kabuto and oro were both smiling after they taunted him and a new tail formed...

[Abdula]

Actually his, you will have to force it out of me, statement is something alot of people say, that only means you won't get anything voluntarily from him. I think he has said that to Kakashi or Jiraiya before. Naruto on the other hand doesn't need any provocation to transform. Its all about his anger, for example when he was fighting Deidara he began to transform and Deidara wasn't taunting him then.

Its all about his anger and him feeling helpless which the Kyuubi exploits. If you paid attention you would notice that while he was transforming the only thing that was on his mind was the fact that he failed to rescue Sasuke. The only time he responded to anything Oro said was when Sasuke's name was mentioned and that is not an Orochimaru specific thing, he acts like that even when Kakashi or Sai mention Sasuke's name.

The reaction we saw here was not because of Orochimaru because outwardly it appears that Naruto blames Orochimaru for taking Sasuke but inwardly he feels responsible for Sasuke leaving because he wasn't able to stop him. This situation only forced him to realize that. If you pay attention you would also notice that Oro was not intentionally trying to provoke Naruto, he himself seemed surprised at how Naruto reacted everytime Sasuke's name was mentioned. You can't go by whether they are smiling are not Oro and Kabuto are always smiling and they were smiling as they said because they were impressed with how much Naruto has grown. Since I know someone is going to bug me about it. I know I said they were unimpressed with his power before but that is his overall power not his growth.

Anyway Oro is a villain if he taunts you and you aren't able to control yourself and you respond to his jibes then that is your own fault. In that case you are a failure of a ninja, Orochimaru just has that kind of personality that makes you think that he is always taunting you even when he is not. Sasuke has/had a similar personality, they just have a superiority complex thus they view everyone else as inferior. If you think he was taunting Naruto, the you must think that he was taunting Yamato as well but he didn't react like Naruto now did he.

About Oro losing his arm and all that if you notice he hasn't, currently he doesn't have a scratch on him and two he wasn't fighting Naruto and he still isn't. He was talking and Naruto blind sided him and he still hasn't put up any offence whatsoever.

Again with this strength thing. Why don't you guys get it strength doesn't mean literal strength. In most cases in Naruto it refers to fighting ability. Sasuke would never be more powerful than tailed Naruto, I don't think anyone will ever be but that doesn't mean he would lose to Naruto. If you remember their battle in the valley of end Naruto was obviously more powerful than Sasuke but he still lost. Even if Sasuke is stronger than Naruto doesn't mean than he can beat Oro as yet. As you said when he does become stronger than Oro, I expect that he will leave and go after Itachi and since that hasn't happened, its safe to assume that he hasn't surpassed Orochimaru yet.

Personally I have a problem about what you said about Kabuto being stupid or attempting suicide as you put it by attacking someone who is obviously stronger than he is. If you think of it that way then most of the ninjas in Naruto are stupid aren't they. Shikamaru, Sarutobi, Kakashi, etc because they attacked someone who is stronger that them.

Are you saying that no one should attack someone else unless they are stronger than that person because while that may be logical, its not practical. Ninjas are supposed to be able to fight and/or defeat ninjas that are stronger than they are, if they couldn't beat someone simply because they are stronger than them then it wouldn't make sense. Kakashi is a perfect example all his opponents when they first appeared were or atleast seemed stronger than him.

Naruto wouldn't have fought Haku, Kiba, Neji, or Gaara if he couldn't win simply because they were stronger than him. With that I take my final journey down the rabbit hole, atleast for today. Hopefully.

[Janusz]

Um, because Orochimaru said that he wanted the first's mokuton because it gave him the ability to control the bijuu and he also said that that must be why they made Yamato the leader of Naruto's group because the mokuton gives him that ability. Something the flashback with Jiraiya and the others confirmed. Weren't you watching/reading?

The First apparently had two unique abilities: using wood element jutsu and controlling biyuu. I don't see how the latter would 'obviously' be a consequence of the former, they could just as well be totally unrelated. I haven't heard anyone say that the first controlled the tailed beasts with his wood element jutsu.

[Jessper]

the first being able to control Bijuu is obviously only because of his wood element techniques.


Um, because Orochimaru said that he wanted the first's mokuton because it gave him the ability to control the bijuu and he also said that that must be why they made Yamato the leader of Naruto's group because the mokuton gives him that ability. Something the flashback with Jiraiya and the others confirmed. Weren't you watching/reading?


No, the first had the ability to perform wood nijitsu AND control bijuu. You ARE jumping to conclusions if you think that he can control them through wood techniques. That or you are manga propheting it up in here.

Edit: Beat to the punch, how sad.

[Abdula]

Jessper. I'm really beginning to think you're an idiot.

Its obvious from what was said that its because of his Mokuton as that thus far is the only thing that he has in common with Yamato and we haven't seen anything else to suggest that it is some other technique or ability that allows him to control them because that is his unique ability. Orochimaru said that he was jealous of the first ability to control Bijuu and thus he stole his DNA and implanted it in 60 children in the hopes that they would acquire his ability. Yamato has that special ability which is the mokuton, the ability to turn chakra into life force.

You should find something else to do besides attempting to attack me or whatever it is you try to do. Your little hobby is annoying especially because your last few post in the Naruto anime threads have been nothing but you attempting to attack me, you never do anything else and you fail even at that. Leave me alone dude, your boring, you annoy me, and you insult my intelligence.

[Assertn]

Well the DNA was so he could get the mokuton. IF A=B & B=C then we could just leave B out altogether. Awe the transitive property, I never thought I would have ever had to use that.
Please, that is an incorrect application of the transitive property.
If...
A = 1st DNA
B = Mokuton
C = Demon control

Then the B=C relationship is purely a continuation of your own speculation. The correct analogy would be a venn diagram, in which the A circle completely encompasses the smaller B and C circles, the latter two of which, may or may not (but probably not) intersect with each other.

A = B + C

[Abdula]

Thanks for the math lesson but it was entirely unnecessary. It could simply be his DNA gave Yamato the Mokuton and Mokuton gives him the ability to "control" Bijuu. Thus B=C, and usually the simplest explanation is the best.

[Jessper]

Everyone else seems to disagree here Abdula, when everyone disagrees with you then you should think about your position a little rather than assuming you are right and pushing right ahead.

Also, wood element techniques, like you stated before, are a result of his ability to create life out of chakra. Wood element techniques do not give him the ability to create life out of chakra. Follow this train of thought concerning the ability to control Bijuu for me.


It could simply be

Ah ha, now you are speculating like the rest of us, and not stating "FACT" there we go.

Edit: oh ya, I'm not commenting about the episode because I was late to the party, everything has been said already. Thus the only reason to reply here is to be involved in the conversation, just because you make your self the focal point doesn't mean that I'm picking on you.

[Abdula]

The wood element IS the ability to create life from chakra and simply because everyone disagrees with me doesn't mean either than I'm wrong or that I should change my position. If I'm right then changing my position would be foolish and if I'm wrong then I will accept that I am wrong and atleast then I would be able to say that I didn't conform. I know that the wood element is his ability to create life from chakra because this isn't the first time we have seen it. That was mentioned back when Oro used his forbidden technique to summon the first.

[Yukimura]

Abdula you have asserted that you don't think people can have more than one 'special' ability.

You state it is 'obviously' the case that the First's ability to use wood elements must be related to his ability to "make pet's of tailed beasts" but with no evidence to explain how the pet making works there's no compelling reason to assume that the abilities have anything to do with each other, other then the fact that the same person had both abilities.

Your theory is weak to the idea that being able to create life doesn't seem like it would have any overlap with controlling mystical demons. It remains to be seen whether or not there is some mechanism that is shared by both abilities and I don't fault you for believing one exists. But coming to that conclusion requires there to be a missing link between two seemingly unrelated things instead of each thing being separate but a part of the whole of the First's natural abilities. That you so fiercely try to defend your point without any reasonable support reeks of either faulty deductive abilities or foreknowledge of an as yet unrevealed link between creating life and subjugating mystical creatures that makes your theory more reasonable.

[Jessper]

This is a lost cause, but I doubt Yamato will make a big tree that forces the Kyuubi to do his bidding when you said clearly wood techniques will allow him to control the Bujii. The only thing that is clear here is that the two abilities could be related.

Additionally Occam's Razor is being abused in this thread, everyone should know what it really means.



The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.

[Abdula]

Abdula you have asserted that you don't think people can have more than one 'special' ability.

Your theory is extremely weak to the idea that being able to create wood doesn't seem like it would have any overlap with controlling mystical demons. It remains to be seen whether or not there is some unknown mechanism that is shared by both abilities, but jumping to a conclusion which requires there to be a link between two seemingly unrelated things and then trying to defend it with no support reeks of either poor deductive abilities or foreknowledge of an as yet unrevealed link between creating life and demons.

Its neither. Its purely because the mokuton was already introduced as the unique ability the first had. The mokuton was also described as his ability to create life from chakra. Although this new ability to control Bijuu is new, the term Bijuu and all things related weren't even introduced back then. So its not improbable to think that if Kishimoto was inserting this new "control Bijuu" plot device that the mokuton would be the utensil.

"Jumping to a conclusion which requires there to be a link between two seemingly unrelated things and then trying to defend it with no support." I think they call that speculation which is what we do here, so no biggie.:)


-I think this is the most posts I have had on the forums within a 24H period. Which is nice since it was a slow week for me on gotwoot.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Not the best, not the worst. I liked the staring contest, and how Kyuubi Naruto has the same eyes as Oro. And how it appeared that he was trying to get in Naruto's head and Kyuubi totally owned him out of there.

[Jessper]

Not the best, not the worst. I liked the staring contest, and how Kyuubi Naruto has the same eyes as Oro. And how it appeared that he was trying to get in Naruto's head and Kyuubi totally owned him out of there.


I dunno how you could have enjoyed that staring contest, I mean it was interesting at first, but it dragged on and on. lol, to each his own.

I thought the scene with the Kyuubi looking at Oro then roaring and Oro going away was cool too. Really the episode was pretty entertaining, I just wish more had happened, but that is nothing new in Shippuuden. :(

[Abdula]

I don't think he was actually going inside Naruto's head that scene was merely to symbolize that Orochimaru was no longer facing "Naruto" but facing the power of the Kyuubi. Personally I enjoyed the staring contest it certainly wasn't the first one we've seen in Naruto and I don't think it will be the last.

I want Orochimaru to be explained. How does his jutsu work, how and why does he use those weird jutsu. What is with him and Sai's pale skin if you look at them side by side they look like the might actually be related. I don't know if they are or if there similarities are intentional but they certainly resemble each other a lot. The things I think need to be explained the most are Mr snake skin, Mr shark skin and Mr venus fly trap and just how exactly the fourth's sealing technique and the seal in/on Naruto work.

[KrayZ33]

abdula
you want to tell me that deidara didn't taunt naruto? he did it all the time

he sat on gaaras dead body, he slapped his face, he showed the corpse several times etc. etc. just to make naruto follow him.

and tell me why are kabuto and oro smiling so strongly when naruto gets even more furious? and oro himself said that he wants to see if he has got stronger than naruto so he provokes him to see his full strength
and everytime his taunts show effects he says "interessting"

to the strength part:
Naruto was not stronger than Sasuke @ the valley... he was till sasuke released the seal and then they were equal. and btw when naruto gets furious he seems to get somehow more intelligent, so i m not only talking about physical strength

to the part with fighting stronger ninjas:

thats naruto for you! thats "his way of the ninja" or whatever he calls that... remember chuunin exam? sasuke saw that oro was much stronger and wanted to give him the scroll because if he dies he cant fulfull his dream of revenge. then naruto came and told him that he shouldn't give up

remember neji? he said the same... he says that a dropout can never defeat a genius so fighting is useless and you should give up
remember Kabuto vs Tsunade? he said to naruto "if you die here you cant fulfill your dreams so you should run away"

so naruto is the only one who fights obviously stronger ninjas and his friends do so too because they trust him and feel love towards him and all this soppy stuff..
and kabuto is *definitely* not someone who wants to die so easily if he knows that his chances are low i m pretty sure he wouldn't move a finger. So i think his attack was a test to see the strength of naruto...


ah and btw oro DID loose his arm, but someone he can recreate his body can be recreated in his body or something like that, i ve never seen this technique before so i don't know what it does exactly... but i m pretty sure that it use some good amount of chakra... like kabutos "renew" technique

btw i m not trying to flame you or anything =]

[Abdula]

I didn't say deidara didn't taunt Naruto I said he wasn't taunting him then. Naruto began transforming because all his efforts were for naught. I also said the if Oro was taunting Naruto whether Naruto responses to his jibes or not is his choice and responding to taunts or jibes from an opponent is not becoming of a ninja in my opinion but that is Naruto's bread and butter.

I don't know what you are talking about saying that Naruto is the only one who fights obviously stronger opponents. Kakashi was willing and ready to fight Oro when he appeared after kakashi had finished putting the seal on Sasuke even though he knew he would most likely die. The third also put his life on the line against Oro even though he knew that Oro was stronger than him because he had become weak because of his age. When Kakashi and the others went after Itachi and Kisame is another example. The leaf ninjas putting their lives on the line in every battle no matter what the cause is not because of Naruto's influence it is a result of the teachings and ideals of the village.

[masamuneehs]

ignores all the stupid bickering

It should have been one normal episode. The pacing was a killer again. I can understand some long, fully drawn out scenes, but when it takes a ninja 2 full minutes to walk back onto a bridge... The staring contest was also somewhat tolerable, but could have had a better climax... Yamato's history, Sai's action (or lack thereof), Kabuto's attitude, Oro coming out from inside his outer body, and the visual effects used at the final forming of the 4th tail (not the heavy dark lines used on the bridge, but the skin peeling off and the blood making smoke in the forest) were the only things I enjoyed. The Kabuto investigation was cool too.

I don't think the 1st could make the Bijuu "his pets" in the literal sense. I think he could maybe control them a bit, especially by controlling the actual Bijuu by sealing its power and allowing the host to regain control... but I don't think he really controlled everything they did. I just don't.

DB's note about there being 247 lines of text in the entire special made me wonder.... just how many original lines did this episode actually have? When you consider how much talking was done in the flashback to the hospital scene (which was then added on), and on the few post-commercial break repetitions, and then Naruto's memory of his fight with Sasuke... Well, all together that was maybe 20+ lines of text there... (a cautiously low guess).

But the part about Kabuto's past, the preview, the stupid ending gag, and the keyword presentations contain another approximately 50 lines of text. That brings us down to somewhere in the 160-180 range of actual lines of text in a 40 minute episode.

Giving more leeway than the writers deserve (saying there was 180 original lines of text), that's just more than 4 lines per minute.

Silent films had more writing done for them than that...

[KrayZ33]

hmmpf abdula

simply one thing

explain to me why a kabuto, who is one of the most intelligent ninjas i've seen in this series (remember tsnunade vs kabuto when his muscles and nerves were out of order)
attacks naruto straight forward after he saw what he did to Oro and became even stronger after that?

if it is not to test his strength what then?

and this makes clear why oro taunts naruto by mentioning sasuke all the time.

and and kabuto does care much about the ideals of the leaf village... thats why he fights naruto. *irony*

[Abdula]

Acutally it looked to me like Kabuto was attempting a sneak attack on Naruto, which, would've worked on the normal Naruto. Secondly he wasn't that badly damaged, we've seen him take worse damage intentionally(rasengan). Lastly if a strong opponent turns their back on you, I couldn't imagine a better opportunity for a sneak attack.

[KrayZ33]

oh and thats why he said "pure chakra... he threw me all that way with chakra" and not "uh he got more skilled, he saw through my sneak attack" :P

no no this wasn't a sneak attack at all

sneak attacks in naruto-verse are normally made very fast with one swift movement and not with thundering, yet slow, footsteps

and yes we've seen him taking more dmg, that happened when he wasn't prepared to get hit... this time however he got hit even harder but took less dmg maybe he was PREPARED to get hit? maybeee?? maybeeee? xD

ah well lets just wait one week maybe we'll see more then and can have a new argument! ^^

[Darknodin]

I personally think the 9-tail thing is annoying. it basically became an easy way to make a ridiculously powerful naruto in the future.

about this episode. animation was pretty good (no matter what ppl say), but it would have been much better as a 30 minutes ep.

[DarthEnderX]

Well, Naruto is too stupid to gain power through learning new abilities, so he needs that Deus Ex Machina to be able to progress through the series.
Um, because Orochimaru said that he wanted the first's mokuton because it gave him the ability to control the bijuu and he also said that that must be why they made Yamato the leader of Naruto's group because the mokuton gives him that ability. Something the flashback with Jiraiya and the others confirmed. Weren't you watching/reading?Because no ninja in the Naruto world has 2 separate, unrelated powers right?




The third didn't take over from the first hokage, the second did. The hokages usually retire once there is someone strong enough to take over their role as the third did when the fourth became hokage. Also no one claims that the third surpassed the first, the third was known as the strongest because of his knowledge of jutsu and the first being able to control Bijuu is obviously only because of his wood element techniques.No, this is all wrong. The Hokage is the most powerful ninja in the village. The second became Hokage when he became stronger than the 1st, and the 3rd became Hokage when he became stronger than the 2nd...when he was like 12.

[KrayZ33]

i always thought that both , the first and second, were hokage at the same time and built up Konoha together Oo

[DDBen]

The third didn't take over from the first hokage, the second did..

Actually I'm pretty sure this is completely false. Shodaime and Nidaime were in charge at the SAME time the second didn't just take over for the first they were co-founders of the leaf.

[DarthEnderX]

No, I think that's actually correct. Hence "2nd" Hokage. They aren't co-first Hokage's.

But what isn't the case is that the 1st is "ready to retire" or whatnot when the 2nd takes over. The 2nd simply surpassed him.

Case in point, the 4th. Surpassed the 3rd and became Hokage. And when he died,. they didn't pick a new hokage, because without the 4th, the 3rd was the most powerful again. Hence, he became Hokage once again.

[StillAlive]

Maybe this has been discussed in previous threads but perhaps the necklace of the 1st Hokage Naruto wears has something to do with the ability to control the bijuus? Maybe it's like a catalyst to some unique technique or something like that?

[kenren]

Sort of disappointed with these 2 episodes. IMO, the characters wasted a lot of time staring at each other. I wasn't expecting Yamato to be a "created" being. I've always thought he was the First Hokage's descendant.

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe this has been discussed in previous threads but perhaps the necklace of the 1st Hokage Naruto wears has something to do with the ability to control the bijuus? Maybe it's like a catalyst to some unique technique or something like that?That's actually a good point. They made it a point to point out the necklace when they were talking about him being able to reign in Naruto.

[Idealistic]

I don't get why people complain about this slowness.... I mean it's been around since the beginning of Naruto. It doesn't surprise me they stared at each other for this long. I much rather see them stare at each other for 30 minutes, exchanging little dialogue, than see 30 minutes of clone fighting.

This episode actually kept me off the edge of my seat because I was just waiting for when Naruto would go berserk and own everybody. I wonder what Sai's plans are though. The way he flew past Sakura like that...... A traitor????

Heh, I actually never thought about Hokages like that, how the stronger one becomes the next and so on. I thought it had to do with someone with a lot of knowledge and respect who can govern the people. It doesn't necessarily mean being stronger. Anyways, if it's whoever becomes stronger, then at the current rate Naruto is growing.... I wonder if he'll ever become Hokage... *sigh*...

[Abdula]

Possibly the single longest post in naruto history, let me know.
If I made any mistakes too bad because I can’t be bothered to edit.

@KraZ33: Its not my fault if the creator makes his character do something completely uncharacteristic.



I personally think the 9-tail thing is annoying. it basically became an easy way to make a ridiculously powerful naruto in the future.

about this episode. animation was pretty good (no matter what ppl say), but it would have been much better as a 30 minutes ep.

Yes the nine tail thing is annoying. Naruto isn't growing or developing or learning any new techniques all he is doing is relying on the Kyuubi and its absolutely ridiculous. Now that his reliance on the kyuubi is becoming a problem they introduce this new control bijuu ability so that his reliance on the kyuubi will become a non factor or less of a factor atleast.



Because no ninja in the Naruto world has 2 separate, unrelated powers right?


Give me one example of a ninja in Naruto who has two separate and completely unrelated abilities.


Which I can only assume is gonna get him killed someday.
Oh shit, I forgot about one of the most interesting things in the episode.
That apparently the 1st Hokage had the ability to make the tailed beasts into his pets....

Wtf?! Why hasn't THAT ever been mentioned before! I mean, the 3rd was really powerful, but how did he surpass a guy who can control fucking Tailed Beasts. How was that guy not Hokage right up until he died?



No, this is all wrong. The Hokage is the most powerful ninja in the village. The second became Hokage when he became stronger than the 1st, and the 3rd became Hokage when he became stronger than the 2nd...when he was like 12.


No, I think that's actually correct. Hence "2nd" Hokage. They aren't co-first Hokage's.

But what isn't the case is that the 1st is "ready to retire" or whatnot when the 2nd takes over. The 2nd simply surpassed him.

Case in point, the 4th. Surpassed the 3rd and became Hokage. And when he died,. they didn't pick a new hokage, because without the 4th, the 3rd was the most powerful again. Hence, he became Hokage once again.

You can't just simply say that without question the hokage is the most powerful ninja in the village. Are you an idiot? where did you ever get the idea that the hokages only become hokages when they surpass the previous one. The first and the second I could give you because we don't know the circumstances but the rest is absolute bull. To become the hokage you don't have to surpass the previous ones, the hokage is chosen based on the person who is best fit for the position, its not simply who is the strongest ninja. Before I go on why is it so hard for you guys to understand that strength doesn't mean strength in Naruto, for the last time its not DBZ or Bleach there is no ranking of strength.

Are you trying to say that the third became hokage when he was a little boy because of some stupid flashback you saw of talking to the first and the second and them telling him that they are going to prepare him to be the next hokage. So you think he became the hokage right then and there, yeah I twelve year old boy leading the strongest village in the Naruto world. Not only is that bad enough but you also have to go and say that the third had surpassed the previous two hokages at that point. I don't know where you got this stupid idea that to be hokage you have to surpass the previous one. Surpassing a ninja in naruto isn't even possible unless they were/are using similar techniques are style that would give you something to compare between the two of them, like if they both used the sharingan for example. Even then it would be impossible to prove because the argument could always be made that one could have between the other if not for some extenuating circumstance.

Another stupid thing here is that you think that the third was the strongest hokage. There is no way to prove that , they said that they regarded the third as the strongest because of his knowledge, we have no idea how he would have fared against the other hokages especially if the others used completely different or unique abilities, or if they simply had a superior fighting style. The other thing here is that you are trying to suggest that the third became hokage when he was but a boy but the fourth was supposed to have been the youngest hokage so when did he become hokage when he was 9.

No one says that one hokage has to be stronger than the other just to become hokage, there are other things that influence the position besides strength. Such as youth, experince, skill, leadership ability etc. By your logic naruto should be hokage soon simply because with the kyuubi anyone could make the argument that he is the strongest ninja in the village even though he lacks skill, experience, leadership ability and a host of other thing necessary for a hokage. The kage doesn't even have to be the strongest ninja in the village because look at the instance with Sasori for example if he indeed defeat the third kakekage won't that immediately have proven the he is/was the strongest ninja in the village. If so then he should have been hokage or maybe they really should have made Oro the hokage.

How could you think that the second had to surpass the first and the third the second and so one. So the third surpassed the second and became the hokage and then the fourth surpassed the third even though they say that the third was the strongest ever. You yourself think that the first must have been the strongest ever so how then could there have been 4 other hokages. Do you think that Tsunade is stronger than the fourth, the person who defeated and sealed the Kyuubi. Do you think she is stronger than the third, do you think that she is stronger than her grandfather was.

Not to mention that the sole reason you think that the first was the strongest is because he could control Bijuu. So what I have a jutsu or an ability that allows me to control monsters so automatically that makes me the strongest, whether I have any fighting ability or not. I suppose if shikamaru or kiba learned some hypnosis jutsu or some other crap that allowed them to control bijuu you would think that they are the strongest. Can you understand that having an ability that allows you to do something special doesn't not directly correlate to strenght. If Shikamaru shadow jutsu could control bijuu would he be the strongest or if Ino mind control jutsu could control bijuu would she be the stongest.

I could go on forever about the crap you have said since I've been here but I will only mention one other thing. You say that the fourth had surpassed the third so he became hokage and then when he died the third became hokage again because he was the strongest ninja in the village. So sixteen years ago when the third was 53 years old he was the strongest ninja in the village, not possibly danzou, or the sannin, or one of the uchihas or hyuugas or some completely unknown ninja but a 53 year old man was the world strongest ninja.

I say the world strong ninja because, in Naruto the also said that the leaf village was the strongest village so that without question must also be true and since the hokage must also be the strongest ninja in the village therefore the hokage is the strongest ninja in the world. So back then a 53 year old man was the strongest ninja in the world and right now Tsunade who by the way is also 53 now is the strongest ninja in the world.


Now I only did this to show that you people who try to tell me about how my logic is flawed and how I only look at one possible side of things thus making me not only stupid but close-minded yet this dude gets away with posting his bull.

On a related note Naruto(the character) fans are some of the dumbest people I have ever met. Now for the dumb ones, I'm not saying that all naruto fans are dumb, I'm just saying that some of the dumbest people I have ever encountered are Naruto fans. I guess they identify with him.

To all you idiots who neg rep me every time I post in this thread and don't even leave a name or a comment for that matter now you have plenty of reason to. To the other nameless idiot who is trying his best to stop me from posting in this thread by neg repping me on almost every post to keep me in line and to give me his opinion on everything I post, why don't you just post something atleast then we could all get to talk about it.

Its interesting that all of my neg reps but the one idiot who neg repped me twice for liking zelda have come in the naruto anime threads.

[DarthEnderX]

Give me one example of a ninja in Naruto who has two separate and completely unrelated abilities.Let's see. Naruto can make shadow clones, summon frogs, and use Rasengan, and use the Demon Fox Cloak. None of those powers rely on the others to function.

Sasuke has various fire justu and the sharingan.

Jirayia can summon frogs, use Rasengan, can use sealing techniques, cover himself in quills.

Kakashi can summon dogs, use chidori, copy moves, attack with earth, fire, and water element jutsus, knows sealing techniques.

The Third has shown earth and fire jutsu, monkey summoning, shadow clones.

Tsunade knows medical techniques, super strength, and slug summoning.


Orochimaru can summon snakes, extend various body parts, regenerate body parts, use sealing techniques, raise the dead, conjure up swords, and many, many other powers.

I think I've more than made my point.


You can't just simply say that without question the hokage is the most powerful ninja in the village.Since you can't even seem to be bothered to WATCH this program before commenting on it, I'm not going to bother to read past this sentence since you're already wrong. I can aboslutely say that because its said in the VERY FIRST EPISODE of Naruto when they're telling you WHAT THE HOKAGE IS.

[saman]

man, i don't know why you guys are complaining. i thought this was an awesome episode. and i actually didn't mind the pacing. true, the episode would've more thrilling if the pacing was faster, but i liked that the episode was slow enough to let you react to and digest all the stuff that happened, like yamato's background and the naruto drowning scene. it didn't feel too drawn out to me. in fact, it was just slow enough.

[redcat]

this thread is longer and more drawn out than the ep.

TLDR

[Yukimura]

Lol Abdula I make an effort to read all your posts but can't you at least try not to repeat yourself so much? You made your point demonstrating that DarthEnder's logic was flawed in like 3-4 paragraphs and then just tacked on 2-3 more that didn't really add anything other than "omg you fail extra hard for thinking that".

@Darth Ender: Neji can release chakra from any of his chakra points thanks to training in the Gentle Fist style, as well as use the Byakugan. However neither that nor any of the things you mentioned are examples of a character having multiple natural abilities which I think is what Abdula meant.

So far we haven't seen or heard of anyone who has two different abilities that are intrinsic to their DNA other than the First. However there is no reason I can think of why a person shouldn't be able to have two. Since we don't know for sure one way or the other there's nothing wrong with the theory that maybe the Wood element and the bijuu control are related to each other, but there is no evidence to either support or disprove it. Because of that there are no grounds to either defend it or try to convince others it's the right theory. Lack of another example is certainly not an effective defense. Garaa was the only thing that disproved the theory that Naruto was the only person to ever have a demon sealed inside them and until Shippuuden.

And as to the whole Hokage strength thing, when they said that back in episode one I don't think they meant strongest in terms of the "this ninja could absolutely kick the ass out of every single ninja in the village in a fight" sense. It was probably more along the lines of this ninja could hold their own if not dominate any enemy of the village, and the people of the village respect them and recognize their abilities, and they have enough leadership ability to lead the village, and they have enough statesmanship ability to kowtow with the heads of other villages and keep things smooth between them, and they hold the village and its ideals above all else and so on. Oro might have been a more deadly fighter than the Fourth back when he was passed over for Hokage, but if the Hokage was chosen based on just strength of combat prowess you could end up with a psycho Hokage who would be horrible as a leader but could kill anyone who disagreed with him.

[KrayZ33]

but if the Hokage was chosen based on just strength of combat prowess you could end up with a psycho Hokage who would be horrible as a leader but could kill anyone who disagreed with him.

which is exactly why Oro didn't become the title Hokage and left the village.
The Hokage is the most powerfull AND for their ideals, the most usefull, ninja in the village.

this is why tsnuade did become the 5th...

she is a Sanin (S-class i believe?) and has "legendary status" and is also trained in healing etc. so she can take care of her people and protect them.

ah and the title is usally given from the former Hokage.
so the first and second (i m pretty sure they were hokage at the same time even though only one was active) gave the title to the third, the third to the fourth -> fourth died so the third came again -> third died -> high ranked inhabitants and people of konoha have choosen tsunade

that sums it up i think

[Assertn]

Dunno if any of you clowns mentioned it yet, but the anime also pointed out that the 1st had superhuman strength, much like that of his granddaughter Tsunade.

Clearly, the 1st was more than just a one trick pony

[DarthEnderX]

And as to the whole Hokage strength thing, when they said that back in episode one I don't think they meant strongest in terms of the "this ninja could absolutely kick the ass out of every single ninja in the village in a fight" sense. It was probably more along the lines of this ninja could hold their own if not dominate any enemy of the village, and the people of the village respect them and recognize their abilities, and they have enough leadership ability to lead the village, and they have enough statesmanship ability to kowtow with the heads of other villages and keep things smooth between them, and they hold the village and its ideals above all else and so on.While I want to believe that's the case, and certainly, there's obviously politics involved becoming Hokage, but the main thing I think disproves that is this...

When the 3rd died, they wanted to make Jirayia Hokage. Everything about Jirayia point to him being essentially a clown. People respect him for his power, but the way he conducts himself and the choices he makes make it seem like he'd be a terrible leader, and wouldn't want to anyway. And on top of all that, he hadn't been in the village for years.

But despite this, they wanted him to become hokage. Why? Because he was by far the strongest person in the village at the time. That's why when he suggested finding Tsunade, the advisers seem almost relieved. Most likely because she's similar in power to Jirayia, but obviously far more qualified for the politics and leadership involved in the position.


It also seems like all the Kage's are chosen the same way. Because there's no way Gaara would be Kazekage if he wasn't the most powerful ninja in the Sand village. He's only like 16, and was batshit insane up until a couple years ago, and yet the sand village gives him the position of Kage.

It's certainly not the best system, but it strikes me as a system established in the very beginning of the ninja villages thats done the same way today because of tradition.

[KrayZ33]

Dunno if any of you clowns mentioned it yet, but the anime also pointed out that the 1st had superhuman strength, much like that of his granddaughter Tsunade.

Clearly, the 1st was more than just a one trick pony


which makes me wonder why tsunade cannot use wood-element-jutsus... isn't this a DNA-thingy like this bloodline stuff with haku or the uchia clan?

because if it isn't, why did oro try to mix the first's DNA with other people?

ah but superhuman strength is something every ninja with good chakra control can learn.. so its not a trick like creating life with chakra or the iron-sand jutsu from the third kazekage.

[Abdula]

Actually its not a blood line its simply a unique ability that he had. A blood line is a technique that can be passed on to your descendants which is where the term blood line comes in. Its hereditary and can be passed on to anyone in your lineage.

@ DarthEnder: Its really sad that you watch the show yet you understand nothing. The sand village elders said that they made Gaara the kazekage solely because that allowed them to monitor him and control and limit his activities.

Like I said before other things affect the position of hakage such as the availability of ninja or their willingness to become hokage. Despite what you think of Jiraiya and the guise he operates under we've seen that he is a very capable ninja and has excellent leadership abilities, all the sannin do because they all lead ninjas or squads before they left the village. Don't forget that Jiraiya is the one who trained and taught the fourth hokage in the first place so despite his appearance, you shouldn't underestimate him. Anyway to my point they asked Jiraiya to be the hokage because at that point there was no one else in the village they felt could adequately fill the position.

If Tsunade was there I'm sure they would have asked her instead of Jiraiya that doesn't mean that she is stronger than Jiraiya. Two, the hokage doesn't have to be the strongest ninja in the village simply because that ninja such as in Oro's case could be deemed unfit to fill the position or in Jiraiya's case is not willing to accept the position because as we've seen with Tsunade being Hokage although it gives you some power it severely limits your activities and what you can and can't do. For example because Tsunade is hokage she has to remain in the village at all times except for a few special situations and she can't or atleast she shouldn't engage in activities like drinking and gambling.

As it was mentioned above the previous hokages usually choose who the next hokage will be not solely because of their strength but because of who they feel will be best fit for the position and who will guide the leaf in the direction they want it to go. Like when the first and second decided Sarutobi would be the third hokage, he certainly wasn't the strongest ninja then but they saw qualities in him that they admired and felt would allow him to become a great hokage, much like Tsunade presently sees Naruto.

@ Yukimura as I've said before I try to reiterate myself as much as possible in my posts just for those people who have difficulty understanding me. Yet no matter how many times I repeat myself or rephrase my statements some people still don't understand.

I love you guys, my big unhappy, dysfunctional Naruto family.:D

Typing that felt disgusting.

[darkmetal505]

This Hokage hosh bosh is just another trivial fact of the Narutoverse.

There have not been any set laws which tell who will become the leader and under what capacity. Hell, if Naruto does become Hokage, then it is simply because of the fact that he is extremely powerful and follows his guts, otherwise Neji or Shikamaru seem to be a much better choice.

When the 4th become Hokage, it was most likely because he was indeed the strongest in the village. He certainly did not have the amount of experience of leadership as Jiraya, Tsunade, or the 3rd. Also, Konoha seemed to be in the midst of or just came out of "The 3rd Secret World War." By putting the 4th as the leader, other countries would feel intimidated approaching Konoha.

Abdula was indeed correct by saying "they made Gaara the kazekage solely because that allowed them to monitor him and control and limit his activities." However, it would be more logical to make Gaara Kazekage because he is the most badass ninja in the village, which would make other countries have second thoughts on invading. The Sand was already weakened by loosing their former Kazekage (Gaara's father) and sending troops for the Konoha invasion (the sand trio's teacher said this somewhere), and putting Gaara as the head would allow the Sand to be protected while monitoring their most dangerous asset.

In essence, any bloke who is super powerful and has his/her heart in the right place can be come the kage of the village. At least for Konoha, Tsunade put it the best by saying "No matter what what crisis may befall on the village, the duty of protecting and raising the little leaves falls on me." (chap 238, pg 13)

[Abdula]

Actually I think that the hokage having to choose his replacement or who he wants to be the next hokage was mentioned early on in the series. I think it was when Sarutobi was fighting Orochimaru.

Another reason the fourth could have been chosen instead of those guys is because the kage have traditionally been young ninjas. Well not necessarily young ninjas but ninjas in their prime or at their peak. I think the other option for hokage at that point was Oro and although he didn't become hokage for other reasons, I think longevity at that position could have been another reason.

[DarthEnderX]

Actually I think that the hokage having to choose his replacement or who he wants to be the next hokage was mentioned early on in the series. I think it was when Sarutobi was fighting Orochimaru. Except when the die unexpectedly, which seems to happen often?


Another reason the fourth could have been chosen instead of those guys is because the kage have traditionally been young ninjas. Well not necessarily young ninjas but ninjas in their prime or at their peak.Except Tsunade?

[Abdula]

Yes it does seem to happen often. Well I think everyone can agree that Tsuande was a special case not the mention the fact that she is the only woman kage or leader we have ever seen in the Naruto world.

[Jessper]

Yes it does seem to happen often. Well I think everyone can agree that Tsuande was a special case not the mention the fact that she is the only woman kage or leader we have ever seen in the Naruto world.

I think all the hokages have been special cases given there have been 5 of them, a norm hasn't really been established yet.

[Yukimura]

Often...wtf is 'often'? There have only been five Hokage's and we've seen only one actual transition (Sarutobi -> Tsunade). We've heard second hand accounts about two (Sarutobi -> Fourth & Fourth -> Sarutobi) and we've seen one hinted at (Second & First? -> Sarutobi). Assuming there was a concrete First -> Second transition the Hokage title has changed hands a total of 5 times. And only twice due to the death of the previous Hokage.

There's not really much to go on in terms of extracting a reliable trend for what happens 'often'. Technically it's more common for a Hokage to step down than to die in office, however with so few data points it's not a statistically significant trend at all.

Something that occurs to me though is that all the Hokage so far have been part of a master-disciple chain that connects them back to the First and Second. In order to maintain that trend the only people currently eligible to be Hokage in the event of Tsunade's death would be Kakashi, Shizune, Naruto, Sakura, (and technically Sasuke and maybe Kabuto).

[DarthEnderX]

Yes it does seem to happen often. Well I think everyone can agree that Tsuande was a special case not the mention the fact that she is the only woman kage or leader we have ever seen in the Naruto world.To be fair though we haven't seen any of the Kage's for the other 3 villages. So we haven't even met half of them yet.

[DB_Hunter]

Sasuke as Hokage... now there's a thought.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but about someone from the Hyuuga clan? I'm sure Hinata's father is at least as strong as Kakashi, so he could be in the running.

[Abdula]

The Hokage Lineage: First was the Second's brother I think, both thought Sarutobi, who then taught the Sannin, Jiraiya then taught the fourth, who taught Kakashi, who taught Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura.


@ DarthEnder: You bring up another point, are we ever going to see any of the other villages are is Kishi just saving that up so he could conveniently introduce them later on. With all the crap that has been going on you would think some other villages would get involved. Atleast they could have shown us a bit more of the mist village since it was mentioned on a number of occasions and we have already seen three very strong ninjas from there who have played Major roles.

@Yukimura: Yes I already noticed the master-disciple chain that connects the hokages it was shown pretty clearly when the third died.

As for the Kages dying "often" if you include the Kazekages then the third and fourth Kakzekage and the Third and fourth Hokage all died within a span of 16-17 years. While that may not be that often its a total of 4 times, five if you include Gaara's death although the title didn't change hands. Thats often enough

[Janusz]

As for the Kages dying "often" if you include the Kazekages then the third and fourth Kakzekage and the Third and fourth Hokage all died within a span of 16-17 years. While that may not be that often its a total of 4 times, five if you include Gaara's death although the title didn't change hands. Thats often enough

It's less often then your average Pope.

[DarthEnderX]

@ DarthEnder: You bring up another point, are we ever going to see any of the other villages are is Kishi just saving that up so he could conveniently introduce them later on. With all the crap that has been going on you would think some other villages would get involved. Atleast they could have shown us a bit more of the mist village since it was mentioned on a number of occasions and we have already seen three very strong ninjas from there who have played Major roles.I'm really hoping so. The only non-filler we've seen of the Stone village is Diedera. And we've only seen the Cloud village in Neji flashbacks.

It is entirely possible though that wasn't happening in those villages is already not as interesting as Akatsuke and Orochimaru.

Konoha needs to have a real, full-blown war with one of the other major countries.

[KrayZ33]

Konoha needs to have a real, full-blown war with one of the other major countries.

i agree! i find these 1on1's boring xD

i prefer mass-battles and assasinations... i mean this is a series about ninjas right?
i want to have zabuza and the demon brothers back :( they were the only ones who looked like ninjas..

all stealthy and sneaky ^^

the funny thing is that the episodes with the demonbrothers (and zabuza+haku) were the best one in this series.. the animation was great and so was the action... too bad they didn't keep this up and made being a ninja look like doing sports and having fun.

[RyougaZell]

Someone seems to be trying to steal dattebayo's place as 'lame jokers'.

A torrent for an episode 42 has surfaced on Tokyo Toshokan (http://www.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=7887), but ep 42 will not air until january. Plus... there is no YHBT on dattebayo's webpage. Thus, my first statement.

[poopdeville]

Well, Naruto is too stupid to gain power through learning new abilities, so he needs that Deus Ex Machina to be able to progress through the series.Because no ninja in the Naruto world has 2 separate, unrelated powers right?


No, this is all wrong. The Hokage is the most powerful ninja in the village. The second became Hokage when he became stronger than the 1st, and the 3rd became Hokage when he became stronger than the 2nd...when he was like 12.

Sorry, this is just absurd. Hokages have to be strong, certainly. But they do not have to be the strongest in the village. Example: Jiraiya is clearly stronger than Tsunade. The Hokage is chosen by the Village Elders (and Feudal Lord, if I recall), presumably on the basis of effective leadership (as the Elders told Jiraiya).

[Abdula]

If you noticed, well I guess you didn't but that was already dealt with. I can't believe we have to wait so long just to see Naruto go Kyuubi and make a big fuss and it all turn out to be for naught.

[DarthEnderX]

Sorry, this is just absurd. Hokages have to be strong, certainly. But they do not have to be the strongest in the village. Example: Jiraiya is clearly stronger than Tsunade. The Hokage is chosen by the Village Elders (and Feudal Lord, if I recall), presumably on the basis of effective leadership (as the Elders told Jiraiya).And yet, that's counter to what's stated at the beginning of the series.

Besides, they wanted to make Jiraya Hokage. He turned it down.

[Mizuchi]

And yet, that's counter to what's stated at the beginning of the series.

Besides, they wanted to make Jiraya Hokage. He turned it down.

At the beginning of the series, they stated that the strongest shinobi in the village becomes hokage. I think they might've meant the shinobi strongest cumulatively in both strength and leadership, otherwise someone like kabuto or orochimaru might become hokage.

Or let's say if hinata became the strongest. Even though she is the strongest, she is obviously not fit to be a leader.

Jiraiya on the other hand, although Tsunade may be a better leader, Jiraiya would be fit enough to be a leader. The only reason they offered Jiraiya before Tsunade, I believe, is because they did not know where Tsunade was.

[DarthEnderX]

At the beginning of the series, they stated that the strongest shinobi in the village becomes hokage. I think they might've meant the shinobi strongest cumulatively in both strength and leadership, otherwise someone like kabuto or orochimaru might become hokage.I can go along with that.

[DB_Hunter]

Well, if Oro had become Hokage, would it have been that bad? If you could get him to stop messing around with your own villagers, then I'm sure all the other hidden villages would be really wary of that sick Kage over in the fire country.

[DarthEnderX]

I wouldn't be surprised if one or more of the other Kages IS like Orochimaru. I mean, they can't all be good guys. I mean, the 4th Kazekage was not a very nice guy. And the Hidden Mist village seems pretty savage. So what's their Kage like?

[Abdula]

They don't have to be nice as far as I know only the hokages are known for being "nice." They are supposed to be the leaders of the most powerful ninja villages, they aren't supposed to be nice. I don't think anyone can realistic expect military leaders especially if they are ninjas to be nice, as long as they are effective and do what is best for the village as a whole.

[ASSpirine]

All the nice Hokages are from the leaf, you won't see a tiranic leader in the main village (main village of the whole storyline). :p

But yeah, I think Oro would rock as a kage, he would make sure the village would be safe in his own way of course. While Sarutobi might defend the village when its under attack, Oro would be torturing people from other villages to confess secrets or possible invasions and prevent an attack from ever happening.

[KrayZ33]

do you really think so?

i personally believe he would raise taxes and stuff xD
and there has to be a sacrifice once a weak for his dirty and nasty experiments...

i think he doesn't care about the village at all when he becomes hokage, he would simply make war with other villages and weed out the weak and create an army of super-soldiers.

as a kage he sucks, but as a villian he rocks...

[DarthEnderX]

All the nice Hokages are from the leaf, you won't see a tiranic leader in the main village (main village of the whole storyline). :p

But yeah, I think Oro would rock as a kage, he would make sure the village would be safe in his own way of course. While Sarutobi might defend the village when its under attack, Oro would be torturing people from other villages to confess secrets or possible invasions and prevent an attack from ever happening.I think the downside is to that is if they don't happen to have any prisoners that week he'd clearly just start taking people from town to experiment on.


God, this 3 week wait is killing me.

[Shinji Ikari]

This episode was so whack. Awesome I mean :P

Although I also mean in the other way as well. The power balances in this anime is not really thought through at all.

Jiraya would slay Kisame and Itachi (itachi said so)
Orochimaru would be killed like a baby in the water by Itachi (Orochi said so)
And Naruto almost killed Jiraya with 4 tails (He barely escaped with his life riding the big wave obviously).

So how come Orochimaru has the time to taunt Naruto at 3 tails? It's obvious that the difference in strength between Jiraya and Orochimaru is huge based on sentences in the series. Does 1 tail really make that super big difference.

Now I'm already convinced that it doesn't, and even more so am I convinced that the writer of this fun anime/manga hasn't thought the power-levels through thorouhly. But what is the deal. And then saying at 3 tails that he is no match for Sasuke either, that is just pure ignorance.

This part of the story is only understandable if Orochimaru has balls of steel and knows that he is so close to death he is wetting his pants on the inside but feels he has to taunt Naruto just because he is curious to see just how strong kyuubi inside him is. Suicide, but still the only logical explonation.

I won't even begin to measure the power levels in ordinary genin, chuunin, jounin and what other types there might be. Because I know there just ain't no real thought behind it.

Otherwise, super series (and ep). Hope to god this won't affect Naruto and sakuras relationship :P And hope Sai gets a real pounding by Naruto so that he is taught what fear is like (would be a good step in him getting some emotions).

[Abdula]

I'm not going to say anything about you being weeks late in posting. I'm not even going to say anything about what you said about Oro, Kisame, Itachi and Jiraiya. All I'm going to say hopefully for the last time is that there are no powerful levels in Naruto. Its not DBZ or Bleach or anything of the sort, for all intents and purposes anyone can beat anyone. As a matter of fact simply stabbing someone with a kunai could kill in Naruto and anyone can do that.

What they were referring to in those example were skill, experience and the difference in fighting styles that would allow one person to defeat another even though said person would not be able to defeat some else that the first person already defeated. Example Itachi said they would have lost to Jiraiya yet Itachi had already defeated Oro in the past something Jiraiya said he was never able to do. This just goes to show that there are no power levels in Naruto if they were Naruto would be able to own everyone we have ever seen in the show and we know that is not true.

What decides the outcome of a battle are the skill, experience and fighting style of the participants. Even beyond that there are extenuating circumstances that have major effects on the outcome of a battle such as chakra, the environment, experience etc. Some examples during the Gaara vs Deidara battle Gaara had a major advantage simply because of the geography of the environment they were fighting in. During that same battle Gaara lost because he decided to save the village instead of attacking Deidara.

One way the difference in fighting styles could affect the outcome of a battle is in the Temari vs Tayuya battle for example. Temari was able to defeat her with one move even though Tayuya in CS lvl 2 was clearly stronger than Temari was. Another thing that could effect the outcome of a battle would be back up when Naruto and the others met Itachi for example. Itachi put Naruto in a genjutsu that he was unable to break out off, at that point if not for Chiyo and Sakura that battle would have been over. This is also another good example of how fighting style decide the outcome of a battle because as we saw then with Itachi and when he fought Kakashi the first time, his fighting style is very difficult to deal with and if you get caught in a genjutsu and are unable to break out the battle is over.

Just again to remind you while there may be rankings in Naruto like genin, chuunin, jounin, hokage or S rank, A rank, B rank jutsus there are no powerful levels. While some characters may be stronger than others and some may have more physical strength, chakra and or stamina or some people's jutsus maybe just plain better than others there is no actual power levels in Naruto.

[Shinji Ikari]

In the end all you are giving are lame excuses for what the creator doesn't explain properly. Nothing conclusive. And there is always conclusiveness, because if there is not, then there is something missing, and that is what I'm getting at. Naruto the series never give anything conclusive in the abilities of a ninja or how strong people actually are (no matter what type of battle strategy they use or what kind of fighting style they have).

And the battles themselves are excessive, what is the point in having Gaara waste his chakra chasing Deidara in the air when he knows he won't be able to catch him unless something significant happens to Deidaras form of transportation. Basically, he needs to move slower for Gaara to hit.

And since Gaara is the target, all he needs to do in strategy is to concerve his energy and wait for an opening.

There are countless battles that would have gone nowhere if the one being targeted didn't make an obviously stupid move. Well, there is also the possibility of the creator actually thinking the battles through. The beginning of the series, with Haku and Zabuza shows much more tactics and smarts in battle than the fights later on in the series. Not to mention people making moves when they have to, and not in vain. Not that these fights are perfect.

Not to mention the whole Ninjas are to be concealed, Yet for some reason there are always one on one fights out in the open.

Oh oh, and the Rock Lee "all we have to do is become stronger than we were" which is physically impossible after being drained for who knows how long.

Don't try to protect obvious flaws in a series, it makes you look like a morron.

But to state one more obvious flaw, lets jump over to Kage bunshin no jutsu. It divides the users chakra equally through all the bunshins he creates (and of course equal to his own amount). It must cost nothing in chakra to actually do the jutsu, which is also very odd since all jutsus take chakra to create. But for the sake of argument. Naruto divides into 3 people, thus, his chakra is a third of what it first was, then suddenly he uses it again and this time he uses 4 clones, making his chakra 1/5 of that third that he had. No matter how huge his chakra is in normal state (which it isn't), he would be running so low on chakra he would soon be running out of breath. This is just following basic logics. And when he divides himself into 1000 or so many clones (judging from his fight with Gaara with the 2000 fists and whatnot). That would make him have 1/1000 of his original chakra.

Now I don't know if you play Final Fantasy 7, but having a gravity that works THAT well, anyone would die for. Meaning making that many clones is a suicide no matter how you look at it since there are only two outcomes in Naruto when it comes to kage bunshin no jutsu.

1. Either he kicks the persons lilly ass totally without even losing a bunshin or
2. All of his bunshins are "poofed" to smitherines.

And for the sake of argument, let us demonstrate this in mathematics. 100 000 in chakra (HP if you want). Divide this in 1000 and you get 100. Meaning that after he loses his clones, he is a finger-flick from being dead in RPG-terms. And that is not taking into the account that it actually takes chakra to make a kage bunshin, or at least it takes for each time you decide to make one or more (every time you use the hand seal to make). And since we both know that it takes a high level ninja to be able to perform, we should be able to assume that it would take at least some level of chakra more than the amount for say... bunshin no jutsu or henge. So to be nice, say that it only takes 100 to make kage bunshin no jutsu no matter what the amount is. then we have 100 000 - 100 which is 99 900. that divided with 1000 is 99.9.

Do I have to keep going? Okey, I actually like making you look like a fool.

In Claymore they talk a lot about useless motion, but those awesomely wicked chicks haven't seen anyone in Naruto move.

You can't disagree with basic logics that this anime isn't very well thought through when it comes to battle (other than making it feel great and look awesome). If you do I sense a black bird will soon fly past you screaming "ahou, ahou, ahou desu ka".

[Abdula]

Wow talk about a waste of a post. No one ever said there weren't flaws or plot holes in Naruto and no one was making excuses for Kishi certainly not me. If anything I would be the one complaining about them more than anyone else but that is not the point. The point was that I was merely saying that there are no "power levels" in Naruto and I made a point to do it in a nice way too but that was all for naught as you clearly aren't interested in that.

I don't know why you chose to call me a moron and a fool but I'll let you get away with it since I'm in a rare good mood. As for your point about Gaara he nor anyone else in the village knew at that point knew that Deidara was after him. He merely thought that someone was attacking the village and he attempted to protect it as is his obligation.

I also don't know why you talk about the sand since Gaara had an obvious advantage in that battle and not only was he able to catch and severely injure Deidara but if not for him having to save the village he would have won that battle since Deidara couldn't use any attacks strong enough to kill Gaara and was also out of clay. I also don't know why you brought up the inconsistencies about Naruto's shadow clones since that has already been discussed many times in many different threads.

I really don't know why you seem so proud that you manage to put a Final Fantasy reference in your post which was a meaningless post that was completely unrelated to what I was telling you about which was about power levels but whatever. I also don't know why you think Naruto isn't thought out because its is one of the most well researched and thought out shows I've ever seen. The battles thus far have been great but nothing is perfect.

In any case I think you should consider yourself lucky that I'll let you get away with this one.



Do I have to keep going? Okey, I actually like making you look like a fool.


I don't know why you would feel so good about yourself because you tried to make someone look like a fool on an internet forum especially considering that you failed at that and they were only trying to educate you about something but if that is what it takes to get you through your life and make you feel some sense of accomplishment when you go to bed at nights then by all means go right ahead.

[Shinji Ikari]

Hahaha, How mature of you. Power levels are just another word of saying, handling battles. Because that is what it's all about. And I dragged out flaws in the battles because they show distinct flaws in how people of certain levels should act (not because of their title) but depending on their flaws and their strong parts.

The Gaara VS Deidara battle is a perfect example of that. And only a fool would not realize the target was Gaara. There are several reasons for that as well, but I won't ramble about that. Anyways, Gaaras tactics were more than ecessive, they were futile and stupid.

And I have no reason to be nice to you since you weren't especially nice to me, not that you acted up or anything, but hey, that's how I roll. But if you were in a foul mood, what would you do? Slap me on the wrist? Please, It's not like you can do anything. Besides to talk me down, which I already know is impossible, you can't amount to that level. Or are you a mod who could throw me out? That would be abuse of power, which I know is very much used here, but please, for this amount, it would be a bit too harsh.

Wow, you must be super at analysing texts, finding out things about me that even I don't know, me being proud of using FF and all. Man you are good. Maybe not. See what I did there? That's called sarcasm.

And no, the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu example is far from unrelated to power levels. There aren't any clear power levels as in Bleach, I'll grant you that (well almost). But everything in battle is measured in power, no matter what kind of power it might be. ANBU for example take on missions on their own and in teams, but say that they act alone for the sake of argument. They are expected to complete their missions no matter what kind of mission it is or turns out to be. Which means they have to be versatile. And that is what shows true strength. An ANBU can't just decide to not do something because he doesn't feel like it. For example, as you say, different styles of fighting are good and bad depending on the situation, but for Rock Lee who only knows Taijutsu, he has to compensate his lack of other skills by becoming strong enough to tackle other things with his speed. And what's important here is the compensation part. If you lack one thing you have to make up for it somewhere, being able to do that is what decides level of strength.

I mean, there is a reason why there is Genin, Chuunin, Jounin, ANBU and Hokage. They are extremely loose, but depending on title, you can only do a certain level of missions. Because the general strength has gone past a certain level.

And be that as it may, that there aren't any "power levels". The strengths and flaws in shinobis in Naruto aren't really adding up when you measure it. It all comes down to fluke, but if every battle was rolling a dice, that would make this series stupid, so that isn't what the writer is thinking.

Oh, and why wouldn't I want to diss you? Or anyone else for that matter, if I have to say something on the Internet, why not make it colorful so that people react very strongly against or very strongly in agreement. I'm not counting people like me who just doesn't care.

[Yukimura]

Lol Abdula you call his post a waste then spend 4 paragraphs talking about what you don't know about Shinji. How does that add to the discussion at all?

Anyway, the topic of discussion at the moment is the plot holes and lack of a clear power structure in Naruto so i'll try to stick to that instead of joining the flame battle.

I think having each fight depend strongly on the participants involved and their individual qualities is ultimately a good thing. It enables both broken uber-characters to dominate universally (like Itachi) yet still be vulnerable and at the same time it allows supposedly worthless losers to pull off upsets (Shikamaru). The system is of course confusing, since you can basically never predict the outcome of a fight unless there's plot armor involved, but I think that makes it much more exciting since you never know when something like Neji vs Kidoumaru will pop up.

[Abdula]

What Gaara didn't wasn't any more futile and or stupid that what the third did in his battle with Oro or Naruto chasing Gaara's dead body or any of the other battles we have seen. Again about the shadow clones you have yet to say anything that hasn't already been discussed. In the end its just an anime. Its amazing that you have been on the forums this long yet you still can't make a clear point in your posts.

@ Yuki <3. You should know me well enough by now besides someone had to do it. Yes it does make it more exciting because you really can't tell who will win any particular battle and it reduces the need for blatant plot devices.



I have no reason to be nice to you since you weren't especially nice to me, not that you acted up or anything, but hey, that's how I roll. But if you were in a foul mood, what would you do? Slap me on the wrist? Please, It's not like you can do anything. Besides to talk me down, which I already know is impossible, you can't amount to that level. Or are you a mod who could throw me out? That would be abuse of power, which I know is very much used here, but please, for this amount, it would be a bit too harsh.

Wow, you must be super at analysing texts, finding out things about me that even I don't know, me being proud of using FF and all. Man you are good. Maybe not. See what I did there? That's called sarcasm.


These two paragraphs say alot about you. You act like an idiot simply because you think there is no consequence to your actions. As for me being able to talk you down I'm certainly very capable of that and whether there are consequences or not you shouldn't be a jerk but that is your choice. You even drag the mods into his and say they abuse their power.

In any case you shouldn't be an idiot and blatantly flaunt your arrogance, ignorance and immaturity. Honestly you sound like a spoilt child. Anyway you shouldn't act that way simply because if it were in person some one like me has broken arms for less and I have no idea what allows you to think that because this is an internet forum you are "safe."

In anycase you've shown your true colors and since you have no interests in discussing anything and it doesn't seem like discussing anything with you would benefit me in anyway I really don't have anything to say to you other than try and make better posts.


Oh, and why wouldn't I want to diss you? Or anyone else for that matter, if I have to say something on the Internet, why not make it colorful so that people react very strongly against or very strongly in agreement.

Please if that is the reasoning behind your posts then spare us okay.

[Yukimura]

God, can you please just stop all this mini-flaming. Abdula since you seem to have assumed the role of judge to Shinji you are just making yourself look worse by continuing to make passive-aggressive attacks against him. If he doesn't care how his actions are perceived that's his business, why can't you just let it go? Talking trash is never going to make a person change, but it can certainly move them to start flaming back in response, which we don't need.

You are currently coming off as a sanctimonious tight-ass as well as a flame-escalator. I know you don't care much for your image, however you're not making it any better by trying to be Shinji's dad, let it go or take it to the flame pit so we can get on with our Naruto please.

EDIT: @Abdula, even if 'someone had to do it' that is the moderators job nobody likes the volunteer politeness police.

[Abdula]

Granted it may appear that way but that is not my intention I just find that his reaction to my initial post was completely unwarranted. I also don't consider myself nor do I care to be the better person. Anyway since the "Great Yukimura" says so then this is done although I really didn't intend it to become anything.

Speaking of the topic do you know when the next episode airs?
Never mind.

[DarthEnderX]

There not being power structures in Naruto...well, that's life. You can never be certain that someone will win over someone else.

I mean, you could go by rank, but that's hardly foolproof. I mean, Naruto is still a Gennin and he's could probably beat alot of Jounin. It's just not reliable. Because there's alot of reasons why someone might not be the rank they should be.

It's like's been said. There's a kind of "rock paper scissors" thing in the show too, where maybe someone can easily defeat taijutsu, but is terrible at beating genjutsu. That person could get beat by a seemingly weaker genjutsu user while defeating a much stronger taijutsu user. It's all about what techniques they have.

[Uberbaka]

I always think it's funny people base these non existing "power levels" on what people have -said- even in post timeskip and other times.. Yeah, because nobody ever trains to specifically beat someone, gets stronger, adapts, or even just plain lies or are wrong?

They're ninjas, they're devious.

[KrayZ33]

Jiraya would slay Kisame and Itachi (itachi said so)
Orochimaru would be killed like a baby in the water by Itachi (Orochi said so)
And Naruto almost killed Jiraya with 4 tails (He barely escaped with his life riding the big wave obviously).


rock, scissor, paper

the best ninja @ nin-jutsu or taijutsu can still loose to a ninja who is good in genjutsu

remember tayuya? she lost to temari because she was her "natural" enemy... her jutsus were simply the perfect counter...

[Shinji Ikari]

The next episode is aired 10th of januari abdula.

If Abdula is my father, is yuki my mother? (That was a joke guys) :P

And as you say abdula, there are a lot of useless movements and actions taken in the battles, but the ones you mention are bad examples. Deidara escaped in an attempt to lose Kakashii, and to get some distance between Naruto and the rest of the teams, which is actually a good strategical move since Naruto will act accordingly. In the anime that traveled time seems a lot longer since some of it is probably filler.

I dislike the rock, scissor, paper system just because powers aren't really scrutinized, it leaves a gap... I'll leave it at that.

Anyways, sorry for acting up. If you had your good day, I had my bad day. I had just finished my Naruto marathon watching every Naruto non-filler episode from the beginning of the series to episode 40-41 (and I stopped watching at the end of the Gaara arc so I could see 8 episodes in a batch to finalize this marathon) in 3.5 days.

[Janusz]

It's like's been said. There's a kind of "rock paper scissors" thing in the show too, where maybe someone can easily defeat taijutsu, but is terrible at beating genjutsu. That person could get beat by a seemingly weaker genjutsu user while defeating a much stronger taijutsu user. It's all about what techniques they have.

Well, they had the rock-paper-scissors thingy in DBZ as well...

Stop being a complete idiot or you'll be gone from here.

-The Mod

[Abdula]

Please don't talk about DBZ and they didn't have a rock paper system what they had was SS and Spirit Bomb own all.

[SilentSnake]

I'm just hoping they will actually use next ep to make something nice instead of just another teaser.

about paper-rock-scissorc = It's all up to Kishi anyway, we all know there are situations when we think "why didn't he/they just use this to counter...".



Removed the flamming

Wow, how rude and pointless. I could flame you but I have manners and I presume Shinji will stand up for himself.

[Shinji Ikari]

No, actually I felt that there was no real point in defending myself from such a post. But oh well. A maraton is a maraton after all, it's supposed to be crazy. And I do have a lot of time because I'm at uni and my classes start the 20th. Why study when there is no need to, and what else is there? hanging out with people doing nothing? Reading a book, doing sports? What is this life you are talking about.

there is a swedish saying (not too commonly known in sweden either since it's more or less a joke) before 50 there is only 1 thing in life, X, but when you turn 50 you realize there are two things, there is also food.

Now I'm not saying that my life-style is optimal in any way, but if you think that your way of life is a better way than mine, then you are the fool, 'cause there is only one way there would be better or worse ways of life, and that would be if there was a meaning to living.

During these 3.5 days I hade non-stop fun.

[Deansdale]

Speaking about flaws, I got a bit nervous when Sakura was hit by the flying Kabuto.
Tsunade taught Sakura that the most important skill for a medical ninja is to dodge, for Christ's sake... She must be a freaking genius in avoiding attacks, and then she is knocked out cold by the first sign of combat activity, which was not even aimed at her!

[BioAlien]

Speaking about flaws, I got a bit nervous when Sakura was hit by the flying Kabuto.
Tsunade taught Sakura that the most important skill for a medical ninja is to dodge, for Christ's sake... She must be a freaking genius in avoiding attacks, and then she is knocked out cold by the first sign of combat activity, which was not even aimed at her!

i believe she was simply caught off-guard.

[Abdula]

I believe she is simply an idiot. She may have improved medical skills but she is still just Sakura.