Naruto Chapter 379

[conquistaDan]

I just found this and I think that I'm going have to say that whether this is real or not is undetermined. I am 70% sure it is in the next chapter though. So I started this thread. If I'm wrong then I give you my apologies and the duty to call me out.


http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/5496/061690tj4.jpg



All I have left to say is Happy Thanksgiving to all. Enjoy your families and the turkeyness.

[KCMmmmm]

Hmmm, would there be panel lines for a full two-page picture? This may be fake, but if it isn't, I'm guessing this is the last page of the chapter.

Which means the action will definitely pick up in 380.

Edit: 380, not 280.

[dimitris127]

you mean 380 u think :-)...anyway if that indeed is a page from 379 then i guess we can say goodbye to jiraiya in the next chapter unless someone comes to the rescue although i don't see how anyone could help him now he already is stronger than anyone at this point except naruto in kuuybin mode and sasuke in second level cursed seal(that's my personal belief)

[Abdula]

Naruto and Sasuke aren't stronger than Jiraiya, I would like to believe that they are but its not true not to mention how ironic it would be if the Toad sage, the man whose was supposed to teach the destined child was surpassed by a couple of teenagers. 4 tail Naruto may have more raw power but as we've seen that doesn't mean much and Sasuke is just not in the same league. You are right though at this point there is no one stronger than Jiraiya so there is no one who could save him, even if there was someone that doesn't mean they would be able to defeat Pein.

[dsh1202]

Looks like pein is going all out (if this pic is real that is) not looking to good for Jiraiya and i agree that there is no one that can really save him. its looking worse and worse for Jiraiya. Maybe he'll survive but thats not likly.

[fahoumh]

you mean 380 u think :-)EDIT: my mistake. Sorry, dude.

Hopefully this week's chapter will have a little more story than last week's, which was a little disappointing when compared to its predecessors.

[KCMmmmm]

No. That picture is a possible spoiler for this week's chapter (379) but it still could be a fake.

Hopefully this week's chapter will have a little more story than last week's, which was a little disappointing when compared to its predecessors.


No, he's right. He was referring to my idea that 380 will be good, if this is indeed a spoiler of the end of 379. He was also correcting my typo. Nice guy.



Naruto and Sasuke aren't stronger than Jiraiya, I would like to believe that they are but its not true not to mention how ironic it would be if the Toad sage, the man whose was supposed to teach the destined child was surpassed by a couple of teenagers. 4 tail Naruto may have more raw power but as we've seen that doesn't mean much and Sasuke is just not in the same league. You are right though at this point there is no one stronger than Jiraiya so there is no one who could save him, even if there was someone that doesn't mean they would be able to defeat Pein.

Actually, I agree with this idea, but we have yet to see Naruto's full power with Kyuubi. If he can pull out four tails, it stands to reason that he can pull out all 9 - though it's effect on him might be overwhelming. We haven't yet seen Naruto in enough danger that this has become necessary. If he jumped into the fight, and was being destroyed by Pain, Naruto might be able to transform further, and might be more powerful (since we don't yet know the limit of the Kyuubi's power, we can't rule out the idea that he might be stronger). Anyway, I highly doubt Naruto would be able to learn Jiraiya's location and arrive there with enough time to save him, so the outcome remains the same.

[dimitris127]

also didn't we see in some previous chapter that naruto has half the power of the kyuubi?or i didn't understand well the part with the key thing

[Knives122]

Raw's out, the shit hits the fan (http://www.mediafire.com/?00hyundxdxy)

Translation (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=620157&postcount=25)

[Assertn]

nooo...his arm.....

:(

[Abdula]

I think we all knew he was going to lose but this is surprising. Guess they call him a God for a reason.

Does anyone else think that soul paralysis genjutsu is a bit farfetched? I mean its unbelievable and I want an equally implausible explanation of how exactly Pein escaped.

[RyougaZell]

Shit... I can't believe I missed the fact of Jiraiya losing an arm earlier today when I saw the chapter...
Oh heck... unless he learns one handed seals, or already knows how too, there goes a lot of jutsu.... hmm... Rasengan seems to be the only think I think off...

[dsh1202]

wow major cliffhanger at the end of this chapter, i cant believe he lost his arm. hows he gonna finish this fight now? i guess this is the end for Jiraiya next chapter, unless somehow he manages to fight with one arm.

[kAi]

Man, now Jiraiya has lost his arm, it's still not the end of him, he can survive this with his own power. Defeating Pein at this point doesn't seem to feasible, but getting a good hit on him and escaping seems like a way to get past this, or am I just too trusting and saying this because I don't want Jiraiya to die?


Does anyone else think that soul paralysis genjutsu is a bit farfetched? I mean its unbelievable and I want an equally implausible explanation of how exactly Pein escaped.
There are many things that are unbelievable. Also, did Pein need to summon the other bodies or could they just arrive on their own when needed? Or it is possible that they weren't completely dead and he did some type of one handed seal maybe when lying on the ground with a sword through his chest, as he did say "argh". Not sure, just giving possible theories of how he got out of it.

[Knives122]

This was brought up on mangahelpers so I thought I'd bring it up here: Pein may not be Nagato. He may have the eyes, but he talks exactly how Yahiko did in the flashback.

Also The translation makes it seem like Jiraiya recognizes one of the bodies, so pretty much Kishimoto manages to confuse the fuck out of me once again.

[deadlydreamx]

[MS]Naruto 379 scan (http://s02.mangashare.com/releases/Naruto_379[MS].zip)

[Abdula]

Yeah, I think he recognized the body Pein was using when he was first introduced which resembles Yahiko. I don't know if Yahiko is Pein because that would require some marvelously imaginative explanation that being said I wouldn't put it beyond Kishimoto. That is a recurring thing in Naruto just when you think you know Kishi proves to you, you don't.


Man, now Jiraiya has lost his arm, it's still not the end of him, he can survive this with his own power. Defeating Pein at this point doesn't seem to feasible, but getting a good hit on him and escaping seems like a way to get past this, or am I just too trusting and saying this because I don't want Jiraiya to die?

There are many things that are unbelievable. Also, did Pein need to summon the other bodies or could they just arrive on their own when needed? Or it is possible that they weren't completely dead and he did some type of one handed seal maybe when lying on the ground with a sword through his chest, as he did say "argh". Not sure, just giving possible theories of how he got out of it.

I think you just want Jiraiya to survive. I thought that all six being there was completely unnecessary as well but maybe Pein is going to do the typical villain thing and give a nice speech and spell out all his strengths and weaknesses etc before he kills Jiraiya. At this point absolutely anything is possible.

[February]

I don't want Jiraiya to die but fighting with one arm is disadvantageous...I just hope he has some intense regeneration skills with the hermit mode so that he can regrow his arm back
We saw all 6 bodies in several chapters back, they seemed to be resting in capsule type of things. Its possible that the other 3 bodies were behind the scenes in this fight, just watching and waiting to rescue the first 3 bodies if they got injured.

They better have a good explanation as to how the 3 bodies that just died can come back alive and kicking...it better not leave without an explanation like Hidan's body...

As someone pointed out earlier, all six bodies utilize in different areas of specialty, the ponytail one = summoning, fat one = elemental harnessing powers, so maybe all 6 pain is like 6 divisions of 1 pain, so each one is not complete in power/emotion with the others. hmm maybe if you kill all 3 of them at one time, they won't die, but if you kill all 6 altogether, they die? random theory I guess.

[Abdula]

I think the other three showing up goes with the theory of a collective consciousness so they most likely were experiencing the battle as if they there. I don't think Jiraiya has any regeneration powers although it could happen because everyone seems to be getting those recently but I don't think he does.

The explanation of how the three that were supposedly killed are unharmed is what I'm waiting for that interest me now more than any of Pein other abilities.

[fahoumh]

Wow, cliffhanger is an understatement. It's kind of lame how the three Peins who were apparently killed are still alive. February's theory about killing all six seems plausible. And about Jiraiya regenerating the arm, apparently frog tadpoles have the ability to regenerate limbs so maybe Kishi might work this in....but then again, maybe not if he's planning to kill Jiraiya. :(

[Abdula]

I really hope that he doesn't have one and you bring up a good point since he is presently fused with two amphibians. If his theory is true then that would make killing Pein exponentially more difficult.

[KCMmmmm]

As someone pointed out earlier, all six bodies utilize in different areas of specialty, the ponytail one = summoning, fat one = elemental harnessing powers, so maybe all 6 pain is like 6 divisions of 1 pain, so each one is not complete in power/emotion with the others. hmm maybe if you kill all 3 of them at one time, they won't die, but if you kill all 6 altogether, they die? random theory I guess.

Well, not really random, since it was my theory originally. You expanded on it just a bit though. I think it should be obvious how the other three bodies knew where and when to come - they all have Rin'negan, so they all say the same fight through each viewpoint. If their "buddies" were in trouble, they would definitely react. Though, Jiraiya seems to have come to some understanding at the end, one which apparently scares the shit out of him.

Hmmm, for some reason, I'm not so sure he will lose. If they are going to kill him off, what's the point of him losing an arm? I think he will escape seriously wounded....which is still losing, I guess. Like I said, 380 is going to be good.

Edit: I like the idea of the frogs helping Jiraia regenerate. I'm gonna cross my fingers 'till next week.

[Assertn]

Yeah....throughout the whole fight I can't help but wonder how anyone else is supposed to possibly beat him if Jiraiya fails.

[KCMmmmm]

How badass was it when Jiraiya wasted no more time talking, and just plunged that gigantic sword in each of the three bodies' chests? Huh? Fantastic, if you ask me.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Yeah....throughout the whole fight I can't help but wonder how anyone else is supposed to possibly beat him if Jiraiya fails.

Itachi could do it! If all six pairs of eyes were on him it would be easy for him to use genjutsu on them, since he is such a wiz.

And yeah Jiraiya not himhawing around was great. STRAIGHT TO THE BIG ASS KNIFE IN THE CHEST!!!

[dsh1202]

Jiraiya was awsome in this chapter, and i also remeber reading something on the meaning of the word Rinnegan, im pretty sure it means "Samsara eye", and samsara is the circle of reincarnation, or re-birth, so maybe the power of the Rinnegan is able to bring people back to life? it would explain how the 3 bodies that were killed were brought back.

[Abdula]

No matter what happens Jiraiya is seriously screwed would be nice if he could manage to escape or get back to the leaf before he dies but honestly I want him to die like this it suits him. I doubt Itachi could beat Pein, because even if they all share the same points of view I don't know if using genjutsu on one or all of them would work. Then again we've only seen then again we still don't know much about Itachi because we have only seen him use all of six techniques but if his genjutsu could work on Pein like that it would be pretty lame.

[DDBen]

I'm confused why anyone would think Jiraiya will die any time soon. Its been pretty blatant that the Sanin still have a roll in this and are not going to be killed so easily. Otherwise there would be no point in Orochimaru still being alive despite being clearly killed already. At most he will be captured and used as a doll by Pein forcing Naruto and such to come save him not just look he lost and is dead.

As for Pein(when did this change from Pain anyway?) the 6 bodies seemed linked but being he came up and looked over the 6 bodies if I recall that means he has atleast 7 bodies. As such I'd assume these 6 need to be killed together or his main body needs to be killed on its own and either would end the jutsu.

As things stand I agree nobody is currently powerful enough to beat him if Jiraiya is taken down. However, we already know Naruto only has half the Kyuubi's power at this time so assuming Jiraiya is captured and Naruto gains the other half of that power its reasonable he could become strong enough to beat Pein. The 4th tail being added to Naruto's power by mearly cracking the seal and giving Naruto a bit more of the Kyuubi's power was enogh to make Naruto strong enough to force Jiraiya to fear for his life and take a mearly mortal wound so it is safe to say if he gained all of that power he could dwarf the strength of Jiraiya.

[Abdula]

Dude, you really need to reread a few chapters. First of all Orochimaru by no stretch of the imagination is alive. Sure one could say that his mind is inside Sasuke but Orochimaru said himself that only the will of his host would remain buried in his subconscious and we certainly didin't see that affecting Orochimaru and since Sasuke's will is already stronger that his I don't see that as a problem. Secondly what kabuto did would only give him Orochimaru's physical abilities and although it may be taking his body over I doubt he will lose and even if he does he will be more of a Zombie than another Orochimaru. Jiraiya doesn’t really have anything more to teach Naruto all he has to do is give him the scroll with the key. I would think Naruto and the toads would have to do the rest in the same way the toads trained Jiraiya.

The name didn't change I just use Pein because I think a villain calling himself Pain is really lame. He has six bodies that is where we get the six paths of pain from what we saw in the cave was him getting into a chamber and there were 5 other bodies next to his that equals six.

OH and the other "half" of the Kyuubi chakra was sealed away with the god of death Naruto is most likely not going to ever get it back because I think there is a very good reason why the fourth did that. Secondly I think you are thinking about this the wrong way the fourth didn't exactly seal half the kyuubi's power he split the ying and yang chakra and sealed on away and gave the other to Naruto so while Naruto would possibly have had more abilities if he had the other half he wouldn't necessarily be stronger.

[Death BOO Z]

Jirayas sword stone were cool, and he still has one left (four giant frogs).

killing all of Payne's bodies at once might kill him, but I suspect there's other ways as well.

Payne doesn't use all six of his bodies at once (except during this fight), he keeps them in the cyrogenic chamber (futurama ref) and switchs between them (and summons them according to his needs).
there's no way that all six of his bodies can survive at the same time for more than a few hours.
maybe he has a disease that's cuasing him to decompse (which is why he invented the six body justu), maybe the godemodeyes have a nasty side effect, maybe the monster statue with all the demons requires near - constant attention by him. all possible explantions.
If we end up seeing the paper girl coming to fight Jiraya for a while, we can check a big V on the theory.

next on the matter:
we need to have 'names' for each body, basing on p14-15, my nicknames for them:
left to right(1>2).
"Yahiko" body, long haired body, (no name yet), "Deidare" body, fatso body, horny skull body

I wonder how the horny skull body managed to cut of jirayas hand, and why did it cause such an explosion?

also, it seems that Jiraya has decided that Naruto is the "chosen one", and he might tell Naruto about his origins.

[DDBen]

@Abdula

First off my point in Orochimaru still being alive in whatever state you want to call it is very simple Kishi is unwilling to fully kill off the Sanin at this time. My statement on that matter is simply that I highly doubt Jiraya will be killed off any more then Orochimaru was and as such Kishi will right a way for him to survive.

Next ok got it you just dislike calling him Pain regardless of if thats his name. Well then guess I'll go back to and keep calling him Pain until its actually proven wrong.

Finally on Naruto and the Kyuubi.... The thing is if releasing the second part of the seal the frogs got wouldn't make Naruto significantly stronger Jiraya would have never even attempted it much less made sure to leave it to Naruto in case anything happened to him. Next its called NARUTO for a reason and thats in the end he will end up as the overall strongest character in this show regardless of if you like or hate him. Pain at this point is the leading person after Naruto and if he kills his teacher you better believe Naruto is taking him down.

Also finally Tsunade already said she was comming for Jiraya if anything happened to him so I kind of doubt he won't be saved or kept alive in some state by the end of this.

[Assertn]

Itachi could do it! If all six pairs of eyes were on him it would be easy for him to use genjutsu on them, since he is such a wiz.

That is true, I could see Itachi doing it.

[Knives122]

Also finally Tsunade already said she was comming for Jiraya if anything happened to him so I kind of doubt he won't be saved or kept alive in some state by the end of this.

She said for him to send one of his frogs, at which point she would help him out. Unless he did this underhandedly, there has been no such message sent..but he's already prepared to give up his life so yeah...

[Abdula]

@DDben:

The key is to release the seal inside Naruto not to regain the part of the kyuubi that Minato sealed away with the death god, I think you got that confused. Yes, I get your point about Naruto, of course in the end I would expect him to be a great ninja but not the overall strongest because there is no such thing in Naruto this isn't DBZ.

[DDBen]

@DDben:

The key is to release the seal inside Naruto not to regain the part of the kyuubi that Minato sealed away with the death god, I think you got that confused. Yes, I get your point about Naruto, of course in the end I would expect him to be a great ninja but not the overall strongest because there is no such thing in Naruto this isn't DBZ.

I'll agree I have no idea what your talking about in the part sealed by the death god. I'm speaking of the second half of the power stored with the Frog that Jiraya sent to safety before going for Pain. He had the other half of the 9 tails power which Jiraya was using to power up Naruto when he went 4 tails and caused that massive scar.

So unless your talking about something completely unrelated to that which was stated as a legacy for Naruto he wasn't ready for yet I'm not sure what your referencing. There would be no reason to make sure Naruto got it if it wouldn't make him stronger if he found out how to use it and it wouldn't make sense it was merely the EVIL part of the 9 tails. It was stated atleast in the scan I read that Naruto only had half the 9 tails Chakra and more Chakra means you can do a lot more with your techniques and use more expensive techniques more often thus making you a lot stronger in general.

[joker-kun]

Yes it was a huge cliff hanger, but I really hope they hurry this up. We've gotten like 3 or 4 different explanations already. We still have Sasuke and Naruto to focus on, and the fact that Itachi has something to tell both of them. The two things that interest me most right now are: the key for Naruto, and what Itachi wanted to tell Naruto.

[deadlydreamx]

you kno after thinking about the chosen one and everything... what if pain is the one that is goin to bring goodness in the world.. n naruto the one to bring chaos by fully releasing kyubi somehow..

[joker-kun]

She said for him to send one of his frogs, at which point she would help him out. Unless he did this underhandedly, there has been no such message sent..but he's already prepared to give up his life so yeah...

There's a possibility that the frog sent to naruto will end up being found by Tsunade, but I doubt it. I think Jiraiya is dead. I think Oro is dead, and who knows maybe Tsunade will die too.

I think Kishi showed he isn't afraid to kill characters. We seen this most recently with Asuma, and it looks like the manga is caught in its current theme of preparing the younger generation. For that to happen alot of the older one has to die. I love Jiraiya's character, but I think it's his end. Although it would be cool is Tsunade showed up and rescued him, or somehow helped him to beat Pein. Doubtful though because with how the chapter ended it looks like there's still something more to Pein (maybe he's Yahiko, maybe he's Madara). Besides, how popular is the whole "You killed my master I end up killing you" story. Heck it even happened in Kill Bill. This prepares the story for Naruto to eventually kill Pein, and then the Big Frog's prophecy comes true in a way.

[KCMmmmm]

Besides, how popular is the whole "You killed my master I end up killing you" story. Heck it even happened in Kill Bill. This prepares the story for Naruto to eventually kill Pein, and then the Big Frog's prophecy comes true in a way.

Wow, I love this idea. In other words, Pain is the chosen one who will bring either peace or complete destruction (in this case destruction), and Jiraiya's "choice" had already been made when he chose to train Naruto? Absolutely ingenious! Unfortunately, if it's true, Jiraiya will have to die, for Naruto to save the world. Then the debates will begin again about who was really the chosen one, when it turns out they both were.

Kinda like Star Wars' prophecy about balancing the force, and both Luke and Anakin having an equal part in that supposedly one-person prophecy.

Or did I misinterpret your idea?

[HachimonTonkou]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but has anyone considered that Pein/Pain (however you want to call him) is not the chosen one, and maybe Naruto is? There is potential there that HE is the one that will bring about a revolution (i.e Hokage using his ultimate powers for peace or war) and that HIS actions with Pein will decide the future because if we look back at previous chapters, we still don't know why Yondaime/Flash (whatever...) sealed the nine tails inside of him. Was it because the kyuubi chakra was meant to be used against a God and thus bring some kind of balance? something to think about...

Secondly, finding Jiraiya doesn't seem so far-fetched as it seems because we've seen the amazing tracking abilities of Kiba's clan and assuming that his family carries the same trait, their pin-point accuracy of finding him will be no problem, getting there in time is. And knowing Kishi, he likes to surprise us when we least expect it. It's plausible for Konoha to already have spread the word by now since they have so many teams out on the hunt for Akatsuki. As for his death, it almost seems necessary in order for the story to be complete. The naruto adventure would almost seemed bland if not for the death of an important character like him, but now I think is too soon and this is not the right place; additionally, it has to be outside the gates of the city because you can't simple walk in. He's too smart to die and if he does, it has to be tragic where an entire helpless group arrives only in time to watch his death or see his helpless body. This has happened with the Third, with Gaara, with Asuma, etc.

[fahoumh]

She said for him to send one of his frogs, at which point she would help him out. Unless he did this underhandedly, there has been no such message sent..but he's already prepared to give up his life so yeah...
In chapter 371 on page 7 (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-371/page007.html), Jiraiya tells his "transport" frog to go back to Leaf Village so Ibiki can interrogate the other Rain ninja...so it may not be far-fetched to see Tsunade hearing about this.

[DB_Hunter]

If Naruto is the one who brings peace to the world, what's the point in him being Hokage? Wouldn't it be useless post then if there was no one to defend against? All that would be left would be paperwork to do, and Naruto would certainly suck at that.

[Assertn]

In chapter 371 on page 7 (http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/chapter-371/page007.html), Jiraiya tells his "transport" frog to go back to Leaf Village so Ibiki can interrogate the other Rain ninja...so it may not be far-fetched to see Tsunade hearing about this.
Well he was obviously lying to some degree, because he actually had the rain nin disguised as him while he hid in the guy's shadow.

[fahoumh]

Well he was obviously lying to some degree, because he actually had the rain nin disguised as him while he hid in the guy's shadow.
Sorry, I don't quite follow. While hiding in the rain nin's shadow Jiraiya has full control over him, so what did he have to gain by lying? :confused:

[Uberbaka]

Is it just me or is it weird how alot of people assume that if Jiraya can't do it, nobody can?

Teamwork mean anything to you? There's absolutely no reason that one person alone has to be stronger for them to be able to defeat Pain.. I mean that's kinda the point to Pain as he is divided so that you'd -need- a balanced team to kick his ass.

It'd be cool if Jiraya got painified and got the eyes and became part of the collective (resistance is futile.).

[HachimonTonkou]

If Naruto is the one who brings peace to the world, what's the point in him being Hokage? Wouldn't it be useless post then if there was no one to defend against? All that would be left would be paperwork to do, and Naruto would certainly suck at that.


Being hokage doesn't mean you're always defending the world from evil or some other ninja trying to take over. And usually there's always an even bigger more deadly ninja pulling the strings, otherwise the series would just end

[Konohamaru]

Wasn't it said that the Hokage isn't nessesarily the strongest ninja in the village. It wouldn't make sense to do. I'd have like the 5th strongest ninja to be the Hokage as long they have some strong decision making. Anyway moving on.

Well Jiraiya is practically hokage level and is probably the best ninja in Konoha right now. He's not going to lose that easily especially to one of his own students. I believe he'll grow back his arm too somehow and get right back into the fight. I think he was just stunned a bit about that one way trip through a wall. He'll re-cooperate and get back in the action. If he does go, a guy at his level should leave a rather big dent in Pein before dying, because there is no way Pein is going to walk away unscathed.

I hope jiraiya doesn't die but it's been a while since a good guy as died.

[Assertn]

Sorry, I don't quite follow. While hiding in the rain nin's shadow Jiraiya has full control over him, so what did he have to gain by lying? :confused:
If the rain nin was with him, then that means the rain nin was not inside the frog to be interrogated back in Konoha.

[fahoumh]

If the rain nin was with him, then that means the rain nin was not inside the frog to be interrogated back in Konoha.
He captured 2 rain nin in the frog.

[deadlydreamx]

but didnt he turn one into a frog? unless he could still speak i think he'll be useless

[KCMmmmm]

but didnt he turn one into a frog? unless he could still speak i think he'll be useless

I thought that was just a trick. Either the guy will turn back, or it was some kind of illusion. Jiraiya doesn't seem the type to severely torture for information.

[TwisT]

And if he could turn people into frogs it would be all over. All he would need to do is turn Peins clones in to frogs and then he could just squash them under his boot. Pretty overpowered jutsu.

Also how can a jutsu turn someone in to a frog? That don't even sound right. Closest thing we have seen so far is Henge and then they are still themself and will turn back. I just can't see it from a scientific PoW.

[Idealistic]

Also how can a jutsu turn someone in to a frog? That don't even sound right. Closest thing we have seen so far is Henge and then they are still themself and will turn back. I just can't see it from a scientific PoW.

Maybe it's like turning Vegeto into a candy. He becomes smaller and harder to hit while maintaining his abilities.

Hah... Cuz you know... Pain is that strong.

[KCMmmmm]

Maybe it's like turning Vegeto into a candy. He becomes smaller and harder to hit while maintaining his abilities.

Hah... Cuz you know... Pain is that strong.

Haha, that's hilarious....the Boo saga sucked.

I still haven't forgotten about Sasuke and Itachi, by the way. What I don't understand is why Kishi isn't showing that fight before this one, or why he isn't at least splitting them like he usually does. Does he expect us to believe that fight is going to be more climactic? Well, perhaps it is, but how could it be more intense? Neither Sasuke nor Itachi are as strong as Pain or Jiraiya (I'm assuming), so wouldn't it make more sense to save the best for the last? Well, I guess we should have high expectations for that conflict then.

[dimitris127]

Dude, you really need to reread a few chapters. First of all Orochimaru by no stretch of the imagination is alive. Sure one could say that his mind is inside Sasuke but Orochimaru said himself that only the will of his host would remain buried in his subconscious and we certainly didin't see that affecting Orochimaru and since Sasuke's will is already stronger that his I don't see that as a problem. Secondly what kabuto did would only give him Orochimaru's physical abilities and although it may be taking his body over I doubt he will lose and even if he does he will be more of a Zombie than another Orochimaru. Jiraiya doesn’t really have anything more to teach Naruto all he has to do is give him the scroll with the key. I would think Naruto and the toads would have to do the rest in the same way the toads trained Jiraiya.

The name didn't change I just use Pein because I think a villain calling himself Pain is really lame. He has six bodies that is where we get the six paths of pain from what we saw in the cave was him getting into a chamber and there were 5 other bodies next to his that equals six.

OH and the other "half" of the Kyuubi chakra was sealed away with the god of death Naruto is most likely not going to ever get it back because I think there is a very good reason why the fourth did that. Secondly I think you are thinking about this the wrong way the fourth didn't exactly seal half the kyuubi's power he split the ying and yang chakra and sealed on away and gave the other to Naruto so while Naruto would possibly have had more abilities if he had the other half he wouldn't necessarily be stronger.


so you want to tell me that if ying and yang is split then the power of someone doesn't get harmed at all...so even if the fourth had destroyed the bad chakra there would be no harm done...then why didn't he do it?i don't think the mighty fourth who was able to do seal away the kyuubi in full strength couldn't destroy half of it's power...so my point is that naruto will get stronger if he attains the other half a kyuubi's chakra but that doesn't mean he will do it...also about the sasuke itachi fight who wouldn't like to see the fight between the all powerful sharingans(we still don't know how sasuke is gonna fight mangenkyou...maybe he got one himself)and who is going to win in that fight...maybe it's a draw

[Assertn]

And if he could turn people into frogs it would be all over. All he would need to do is turn Peins clones in to frogs and then he could just squash them under his boot. Pretty overpowered jutsu.

Also how can a jutsu turn someone in to a frog? That don't even sound right. Closest thing we have seen so far is Henge and then they are still themself and will turn back. I just can't see it from a scientific PoW.
Well, I'm under the impression that being inside that frog's body gave him abilities that he wouldn't have outside of the frog's body. At least, that's what Jiraiya implied.

[Abdula]

I think Jiraiya transforming that rain ninja into a from was just a trick, it would make more sense if it was because not only would he have gotten information from the remaining ninja but he would also have a prisoner to send back to the leaf for interrogation, and since Jiraiya was being overly cautious from the beginning I think that is exactly what he did. If it gets there in time to help him in any way is another story, but Jiraiya knew there was a very high possibility of him Jiraiya so doing so would have been a good insurance policy in case he does actually die.


Kishimoto hasn't been splitting the battle lately if I remember the Gaara battle correctly that is all we saw for a couple chapters, and he did the same thing with Sasori, Deidara, Orochimaru, Hidan and Kakuzu and the Sasuke again. Its looks as if this battle is going to be over soon so we should get to see the Sasuke, Naruto, Itachi meeting next.



I'll agree I have no idea what your talking about in the part sealed by the death god. I'm speaking of the second half of the power stored with the Frog that Jiraya sent to safety before going for Pain. He had the other half of the 9 tails power which Jiraya was using to power up Naruto when he went 4 tails and caused that massive scar.

So unless your talking about something completely unrelated to that which was stated as a legacy for Naruto he wasn't ready for yet I'm not sure what your referencing. There would be no reason to make sure Naruto got it if it wouldn't make him stronger if he found out how to use it and it wouldn't make sense it was merely the EVIL part of the 9 tails. It was stated atleast in the scan I read that Naruto only had half the 9 tails Chakra and more Chakra means you can do a lot more with your techniques and use more expensive techniques more often thus making you a lot stronger in general.

The second half of Naruto's power is not stored with the frog what the frog has is the key to release the seal in Naruto so he has complete access to the Kyuubi's power.


so you want to tell me that if ying and yang is split then the power of someone doesn't get harmed at all...so even if the fourth had destroyed the bad chakra there would be no harm done...then why didn't he do it?i don't think the mighty fourth who was able to do seal away the kyuubi in full strength couldn't destroy half of it's power...so my point is that naruto will get stronger if he attains the other half a kyuubi's chakra but that doesn't mean he will do it...also about the sasuke itachi fight who wouldn't like to see the fight between the all powerful sharingans(we still don't know how sasuke is gonna fight mangenkyou...maybe he got one himself)and who is going to win in that fight...maybe it's a draw

Ying and Yang doesn't necessarily mean he is going to be more powerful. Sure there is no doubt that he will be stronger but I think the ying chakra would give him more abilities. As far as it is now the Kyuubi chakra Naruto has seems to be only able to be used as raw energy, it isn't used in the sense of normal chakra as more of a physical attack, like rasengan or when the cloak surronds his body.. Splitting the ying and yang doesn't always mean that you just have half your chakra. In some animes mixes ying and yang provides balance not necessarily strength so if Naruto is unable to control the yang chakra because it is just raw power then he might be able to control the Kyuubi if he had both not that he is ever going to get the ying chakra back.

[mr3vi1m0nk3y]

I think the ying chakra sealed away by the death god is the "spiritual" part of Kyuubi's chakra. Remember in the beginning of the series its mentioned that chakra is split into two sides, spiritual and physical, and to get stronger you have to train your body for physical and meditate (not sure) for spiritual. Right now Naruto only has the physical part (yang) which might explain why he takes on the physical attributes of Kyuubi the more he uses it. If this is correct then I wonder what the effects of unsealing the other part of Kyuubi's chakra would have on Naruto's mind.

[chet_chetty]

does anyone also think that Jiraiya losing his arm is a blatant foreshadowing that Tsunade will be (the next) joining this battle. if Tsunade really wanted to join this battle, she would not need anything, let alone a sentry grog, to give her the word.

[Abdula]

I think the ying chakra sealed away by the death god is the "spiritual" part of Kyuubi's chakra. Remember in the beginning of the series its mentioned that chakra is split into two sides, spiritual and physical, and to get stronger you have to train your body for physical and meditate (not sure) for spiritual. Right now Naruto only has the physical part (yang) which might explain why he takes on the physical attributes of Kyuubi the more he uses it. If this is correct then I wonder what the effects of unsealing the other part of Kyuubi's chakra would have on Naruto's mind.

I seem to vaguely remember something like that being mentioned. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Naruto suddenly got a metal boast, not really. Anyway it is a good point but the does not unseal the other part of Naruto chakra. Naruto has the Kyuubi's yang chakra, Jiraiya used the key to loosen the seal so Naruto can now access up to four tails, the key would only release the rest of the nine tails yang chakra. That is what I got from what Jiraiya said, there is nothing to indicate that Naruto will get the ying chakra that the fourth sealed. I have no idea how he would be able to get it back from the shinigami because I was under the impression that once something was sealed with the shinigami it was trapped for good, at least that is what I got from the third's battle with Orochimaru.


does anyone also think that Jiraiya losing his arm is a blatant foreshadowing that Tsunade will be (the next) joining this battle.

Uh no, but anything is possible.

[mr3vi1m0nk3y]

I seem to vaguely remember something like that being mentioned. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Naruto suddenly got a metal boast, not really. Anyway it is a good point but the does not unseal the other part of Naruto chakra. Naruto has the Kyuubi's yang chakra, Jiraiya used the key to loosen the seal so Naruto can now access up to four tails, the key would only release the rest of the nine tails yang chakra. That is what I got from what Jiraiya said, there is nothing to indicate that Naruto will get the ying chakra that the fourth sealed. I have no idea how he would be able to get it back from the shinigami because I was under the impression that once something was sealed with the shinigami it was trapped for good, at least that is what I got from the third's battle with Orochimaru.

If you mean mental boost, then no thats not what I was referring to. I was referring to negative effects it would have on Naruto which could be a reason why it was sealed away in the first place.

[Abdula]

okay, I was talking about what it would be like if the Kyuubi had some control over Naruto mentally. I mean if he could talk etc and take full control of all Naruto's capacities like Ichigo and his hollow friend instead of just driving him mad with power. What positive effects does the Kyuubi have on Naruto besides healing and the large amount of chakra, that is the only positives Naruto has because of the Kyuubi. I would imagine that if the Kyuubi was whole it would have completely taken control of Naruto a long time ago because he doesn't seem to have much mental strength.

[dimitris127]

naruto cannot be taken control of...if you have to give credit to naruto all that credit would be on his mental strength...never giving up and such...so i guess we can't have another ichigo here(well that would be a little stupid i think)also kyuubi has been inserted in naruto when he was a baby no matter what by that time he didn't have any mental or physical strength to put up against except his chakra(which at the time was less than it is now)so if kyuubi could take over naruto it would have done by then even at half power

[Abdula]

Never giving up and such, Naruto's only credit is that he talks big if he sometimes manages to believe the crap that comes out of his mouth that is not toughness. I know for one thing I have never seen a ninja, whine, complain and cry as much as Naruto has. He doesn't have much self confidence because of how he was shunned as a child, the attitude he walks around with is just a shroud to cover up that.

The reason Naruto hasn't been taken over is only because of the strength and intricacy of the seal the fourth used. The seal has become weak over time and what Jiraiya did didn't help the problem, so now is where Naruto's mental strength is going to come in. I had the feeling that when he met Sasuke that the Kyuubi was going to come out again if Sasuke hadn't stepped in because Naruto obviously can't control it. This thing about Naruto's chakra being able to resist the Kyuubi is bull because we have seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. Oh and the thing about Naruto's chakra being strong refers to the quality not the quantity. Similar to when Jiraiya and Orochimaru transformed the amount of chakra didn't increase the quality did, the same happened with Tsunade only she had stored up a large amount of chakra in the seal but she used it to heal herself not to fight.

[mr3vi1m0nk3y]

naruto cannot be taken control of...if you have to give credit to naruto all that credit would be on his mental strength...never giving up and such...so i guess we can't have another ichigo here(well that would be a little stupid i think)also kyuubi has been inserted in naruto when he was a baby no matter what by that time he didn't have any mental or physical strength to put up against except his chakra(which at the time was less than it is now)so if kyuubi could take over naruto it would have done by then even at half power

I have to disagree with that. Naruto's fight with Orochimaru alone shows that if he draws on Kyuubi's power he starts to lose control and the fox slowly takes over. When Naruto first encounters Sauske again after the time skip he almost removes the seal on Kyuubi. In my opinion that incident also shows that the Kyuubi may also be slowly influencing Naruto in small ways. With the seal weakening I wonder if Naruto may be taken over by the fox even without drawing on Kyuubi's chakra.

[Assertn]

I could see Tsunade showing up to help, but only because, being a sannin she has a connection to hanzo, whom was killed by Pain.

[dimitris127]

I have to disagree with that. Naruto's fight with Orochimaru alone shows that if he draws on Kyuubi's power he starts to lose control and the fox slowly takes over. When Naruto first encounters Sauske again after the time skip he almost removes the seal on Kyuubi. In my opinion that incident also shows that the Kyuubi may also be slowly influencing Naruto in small ways. With the seal weakening I wonder if Naruto may be taken over by the fox even without drawing on Kyuubi's chakra.

yeah he has that problem when it's something connected to sasuke but not to everything...now that you mentioned sasuke i remember when sasuke got into naruto's head and saw the kyuubi...didn't kyuubi tell him not to kill him because he'll regret it?so there are 2 possibilities 1)kyuubi likes naruto 2)feared for its life...well i believe it's both actually(you know everyone in the series talk anout how naruto can become friends with anyone...well why not kyuubi)

[KCMmmmm]

yeah he has that problem when it's something connected to sasuke but not to everything...now that you mentioned sasuke i remember when sasuke got into naruto's head and saw the kyuubi...didn't kyuubi tell him not to kill him because he'll regret it?so there are 2 possibilities 1)kyuubi likes naruto 2)feared for its life...well i believe it's both actually(you know everyone in the series talk anout how naruto can become friends with anyone...well why not kyuubi)

Except for Kabuto, who was driven to become an even more deadly foe because of his contact with Naruto. I seriously doubt the Kyuubi cares about Naruto. It seems that if Naruto (the container) is destroyed, then the Kyuubi will be as well, being a captive in his body. I wonder, then, if the Kyuubi realizes the damage he is doing to Naruto when he releases four tails, and if this poses a danger to the Kyuubi. Perhaps if all nine tails get out, the fox may be able to break free unscathed before Naruto is killed?

[Abdula]

It seems that if Naruto (the container) is destroyed, then the Kyuubi will be as well, being a captive in his body. I wonder, then, if the Kyuubi realizes the damage he is doing to Naruto when he releases four tails, and if this poses a danger to the Kyuubi. Perhaps if all nine tails get out, the fox may be able to break free unscathed before Naruto is killed?

I don't know about that sometimes it seems that if Naruto dies the Kyuubi will die with him and sometimes it seems that if Naruto dies the Kyuubi will be released I think they really need to tell us exactly what would happen. I don't think the Kyuubi cares about Naruto, he has obviously gained a little respect for Naruto and he seems to have become fond of him but I doubt he cares about him. He is the Kyuubi, he is supposed to be fueled by hatred and malice, so I don't think he cares about anyone. Secondly Naruto is his captor although it isn't Naruto's fault but Naruto is holding him prisoner and using his power on top of that.

So whether he likes Naruto or not he has been trapped like that for 15+ years so I think he would kill him or get rid of him the first chance he gets.He obviously has a lot of hatred for the fourth, Naruto and the Leaf.


Happy now?

[shinta|hikari]

He is the Kyuubi, he is supposed to be fueled by hatred and malice, so I don't think he cares about anyone secondly Naruto is his captor although it isn't Naruto's fault but Naruto is holding him prisoner and using his power on top of that so whether he likes Naruto or not he has been trapped like that for 15+ years so I think he would kill him or get rid of him the first chance he gets because he obviously has alot of hatred for the fourth, Naruto and the Leaf.

That is one long and almost incomprehensible sentence.

[poopdeville]

A few people have mentioned that they thought Itachi could easily kill Pein using Tsukuyomi, since Pein sees everything from 6 different points of view. I think it's also plausible that Itachi can't kill Pein easily because Pein sees from 6 POV's.

I mean, think back to when Jiraiya taught Naruto how to break out of genjutsu. Jiraiya explained that genjutsu rely on manipulating the victim's brain chakra to create illusions. And Pein has 6 brains that seem to work together, using perfect telepathic team work. My "theory" is that Pein's telepathic vision technique is just genjutsu too. His eyes grant his bodies the power to transmit illusions to the other bodies by manipulating their brain chakra. And thinking back to Jiraiya's lesson on genjutsu, it can be broken by forcing chakra through your brain.

All this taken together makes me think Itachi can't kill Pein, at least not using the Rinnegan as a weakness.

Let's consider a scenario for examples. Suppose one of Pein's bodies (call it A) gets caught in Tsukuyomi. Then it means Itachi's chakra is messing with A's brain. Fine. But it doesn't mean Itachi knows how to force A to send the other bodies the illusion Tsukuyomi produces. Also, it is plausible that since the other bodies use genjutsu to maintain their link with A -- and thus they obviously know how to force chakra through A's brain -- that the others might just focus their chakra on A's brain and overpower Tsukuyomi.

[Abdula]

Finally someone agrees with me. It would be stupid if a major villain like Pein could be easily defeated by one if his subordinates' jutsus. Plus this chapter has shown that genjustsu doesn't seem to be too effective against Pein although the reason is yet to be revealed.

[KCMmmmm]

A few people have mentioned that they thought Itachi could easily kill Pein using Tsukuyomi, since Pein sees everything from 6 different points of view. I think it's also plausible that Itachi can't kill Pein easily because Pein sees from 6 POV's.

I mean, think back to when Jiraiya taught Naruto how to break out of genjutsu. Jiraiya explained that genjutsu rely on manipulating the victim's brain chakra to create illusions. And Pein has 6 brains that seem to work together, using perfect telepathic team work. My "theory" is that Pein's telepathic vision technique is just genjutsu too. His eyes grant his bodies the power to transmit illusions to the other bodies by manipulating their brain chakra. And thinking back to Jiraiya's lesson on genjutsu, it can be broken by forcing chakra through your brain.

All this taken together makes me think Itachi can't kill Pein, at least not using the Rinnegan as a weakness.

Let's consider a scenario for examples. Suppose one of Pein's bodies (call it A) gets caught in Tsukuyomi. Then it means Itachi's chakra is messing with A's brain. Fine. But it doesn't mean Itachi knows how to force A to send the other bodies the illusion Tsukuyomi produces. Also, it is plausible that since the other bodies use genjutsu to maintain their link with A -- and thus they obviously know how to force chakra through A's brain -- that the others might just focus their chakra on A's brain and overpower Tsukuyomi.

Interresting concept, however if it were true, then the Rin'Nigan power would have an enormous weakness. All the enemy would have to do would be to break the genjutsu by injecting their chakra into one of Pain's bodies. Although, they may have to do it to all six individually. I like your idea, but I'm still more convinced that the bodies are linked, not by a jutsu of any sort, but because they each came from the same source - in other words, they were originally one body.

[Konohamaru]

I'm thinking If the 6 bodies were dead people from the past and Pein brought them back. You think he brought back Obito as Tobi?

*puts Obito is not Tobi flame suit on*

FLAME ON!

[poopdeville]

Interresting concept, however if it were true, then the Rin'Nigan power would have an enormous weakness. All the enemy would have to do would be to break the genjutsu by injecting their chakra into one of Pain's bodies. Although, they may have to do it to all six individually. I like your idea, but I'm still more convinced that the bodies are linked, not by a jutsu of any sort, but because they each came from the same source - in other words, they were originally one body.

That's not an enormous weakness. At worst, it's a weakness everybody has. No known character would survive a strong chakra injection attack like Neji's taijutsu or Naruto's Windmill Rasengan if they connected. These, and genjutsu, are the only chakra injection attacks we've seen so far (if I recall). Genjutsu isn't as big a deal, since the other bodies could just use their genjutsu to overpower and reconnect to (and thus rescue) the other body.

[Abdula]

Genjutsu really isn't that big of a deal especially in Peins case. I don't know why anyone thinks Itachi would be able to kill Pein yes Itachi is a master of genjutsu but his normal genjutsu would be easy enough to overcome and we don't know enough about MS to know how it would work.

Anyway I doubt we will ever see a Pein vs Itachi battle because for one thing the closest we have ever come to seeing two different Kekkei Genkais face off against each other was Sasuke vs Haku. Itachi doesn't have any reason to fight Pein and even if they do face off I would give Pein a tremendous advantage because not only were Itachi and Kisame intimidated by Jiraiya but Pein is the leader of akatsuki so rinnegan or not its safe to say that he is just plain stronger than any of the other members.

Since he is the one who formed the group he must know all the members and their strengths and weaknesses and since he is partners with Tobi I would think he knows all about the Sharingan and its abilities and exactly how to defeat it. Not to mention that it would be six on one and we have yet to see Itachi use MS on a non sharingan user or use genjutsu on multiple opponents at that.

Itachi's strongest justsu or doujutsu's which are easy enough to avoid and even if he does catch Pein in one, he should be strong enough to be able to break out. Even if the jutsu is inescapable like Jiraiya's was Pein has other bodies. I doubt Itachi would use genjutsu against Pein anyway because someone like him should have tremendous mental fortitude.

Anyway this post is getting lengthy and we don't know much about Itachi since we have yet to see him in a serious battle, and I'm sure we have seen very little of what Pein is capable of so having this discussion now doesn't make sense.