Bleach 140 [Archive] - Gotwoot Forums

Yukimura

Wed, 09-12-2007, 11:29 PM

Hirako fight was pretty good, the music was kind of cool as well, and of course Urahara was as awesome as I would have hoped.

One lesson this ep teaches quite a few times is that Shikai and Bankai aren't all they were cracked up to be back in the SS arc. Hitsugaya couldn't kill Luppi even with what I would imagine is one of his strongest attacks since he took so long to prepare it. But Urahara was completely owning with just his Shikai and toy. (Albeit Yami < Luppi)

Ichigo has had to use Bankai to deal with pretty much every situation recently and he was pretty useless against Grimmjow with it. Rukia's shiki on the other hand actually managed to affect him somewhat. And then there's Hirako who doesn't even use a Shikai but just Hollow Mode and his sword.

FullMetalAlchemist

Thu, 09-13-2007, 12:29 AM

Urahara is in a diffrent plain though lol, did you see that explaination on why he can dodge/counter yami's attacks, ichigo is no were near that lvl. hirako has been using his hollow form for awhile so u can give ichigo a break on that one (but still ichigo is using bankai with little results). Also ichigo did own in hollow form just sucks ass at keeping it up, guess thats why hirako let him go, maybe thinking the confrontation would force him into keeping the hollow form on longer (which failed).

Crash

Thu, 09-13-2007, 12:46 AM

Ah, i totally called it in the last thread. Hirako comes to save Ichigo's sorry ass. Judging from that fight, Ichigo has a long way to go. I'm thinking Hirako's gonna start taking the kiddie gloves off in training now, maybe even start training ichigo himself.

Urahara was bad ass as expected, the way he was just toying with Yami was hilarious. I wish we could have seen more of him though, seeing that fight fleshed out a bit more would have made this episode great.

Over all it was a fairly good episode, though not as griping or intense as the previous one.

DarthEnderX

Thu, 09-13-2007, 05:31 AM

I was actually kinda bored with the first half of this episode. It was seriously, 4 different occasions of "badguys about to deliver the kill shot when BAM! Somebody new shows up!" And Uruahara's thing just didn't seem that cool to me. It's probably because I've seen it in like 20 other animes. Oh, you see a guys attack once and totally can figure it out and counter it? Okay then...*yawn*

Shinji was just too cool though. Liked that song.

Harima Kenji

Thu, 09-13-2007, 05:55 AM

It wasn't as intense, but there were some jaw dropping moments for me. I really thought that Hitsugaya was down. Seeing him come back basically uninjured surprised me.
Hirako's appearance was something I didn't expect too.

Something that cought my eye.. Hitsugaya's Bankai doesn't have those ice petals anymore. Is it something he overcame, or just lazyness of the animators?

Kraco

Thu, 09-13-2007, 06:39 AM

Something that cought my eye.. Hitsugaya's Bankai doesn't have those ice petals anymore. Is it something he overcame, or just lazyness of the animators?

They are only there when the limiters are on. They were released before this fight.

Crash

Thu, 09-13-2007, 07:09 AM

They are only there when the limiters are on. They were released before this fight.

Not true, check out episode 60 when he releases Ban Kai against Aizen. It's around 16:50 (lunar sub). I imagine it was probably an animation screw up.

edit: i went and checked the last episode and they weren't there in that one either. Seems a little odd that they would screw up two in a row, i guess it's possible he could have trained to the point of eliminating that timer.

Nintendo

Thu, 09-13-2007, 07:26 AM

good episode but i wished that luppi get killed by hitsugya last move coz it was cool and seems like a finishing move but by not being dead that means that hitsugya is no match for espada.
beside that Rukia entrance was great,she didn't kill grimmjaw but her attack was great and i think she is improving fast that we saw the second dance of her sword and i bit that the next dances ( if there will be ) will be great

uhicha neji

Thu, 09-13-2007, 11:48 AM

Rukia needs a bankai.

Janusz

Thu, 09-13-2007, 12:40 PM

It was pretty lame how no-one got killed. Not even that dude that was crushed by ice pillars. And if not, Urahara could have killed at leat ONE of them. Then there was Hirako, being a total fool by revealing himself and not finishing off whoever saw him. I thought the entire point was that they didn't want anyone to know about them? Well now they've made sure EVERYONE will know about them.

masamuneehs

Thu, 09-13-2007, 12:43 PM

For the first time since he fought Ichimaru Gin I was impressed with Hitsugaya. But, immediately, he talks a big game and fails to deliver. All his "That's what we call following through" but himself presuming that Luppi is dead (I'm glad he's not) and not doing exactly that... He's just as bad as villains at finishing off fights...

Urahara was awesome. Kawarimi-no-jutsu appears in Bleach.

Technically Rukia saved Ichigo and Shinji Hirako saved her, but I suppose that's not something to split hairs on. On Shinji's powers... he is probably much better at Ichigo at using his Hollow form, but he also used the Cero. This makes me think he is more in touch with his Hollow side, and perhaps may not have developed his Shinigami abilities. I think they will show him with shikai or bankai, but if he does have it, then it makes no sense that he didn't use it on Grimmjow after vowing "I won't hold back".

I laughed my ass off at Wonderwice in the Arrancar Encylcopedia. Tousen literally cutting Gin off was good too.

Where was Wonderwice anyway when Urahara was messing with Yammi? I thought it was going to be between those two... Anyone know what his number is anyway?

Kraco

Thu, 09-13-2007, 01:08 PM

They need to bring Kenpachi and Byakuya to the real world. We won't see a single dead enemy corpse otherwise.

Like so many said already, the lack of death made this episode far worse than it would have otherwise been. Indeed, it was a nice episode in all other respects.

TwisT

Thu, 09-13-2007, 01:14 PM

I don't think he is an Espada. Just like Grimmjaw doesn't have a number anymore. Aizen probably let him tag along so he could see what he could do.

DB_Hunter

Thu, 09-13-2007, 03:24 PM

They need to bring Kenpachi and Byakuya to the real world. We won't see a single dead enemy corpse otherwise.

True, so very true.

DeathscytheVII

Fri, 09-14-2007, 02:59 AM

What's with everyone toying with Yami? By all rights he should be dead! I think its already established that he's weak and a shame to the espada. Considering Ichigo easily cut off his arm and he got bitch slapped by Yoruichi. I don't get why Urahara didn't just finish the job instantly and save the arrancar the embarassment at least haha.

Kraco

Fri, 09-14-2007, 03:35 AM

Because seemingly nobody but Kenpachi and Byakuya are able to kill their opponents purposefully, like I said earlier. Urahara is no exception, as was made evident. It's a damn pity, but in the end not that surprising. He's a really cool and powerful character but I guess no killer.

Janusz

Fri, 09-14-2007, 04:00 PM

I think he's a bit sadistic as well, seeing how he was the previous leader of the research squad and made that freakshow his vicecaptain. Cats like to toy with a mouse, and I guess Urahara wasn't expecting them to leave so soon.

Agreed though that Kenpachi / Byakuya would be nice, though the former would probably destroy Karakura :P

AngryGumball

Fri, 09-14-2007, 08:39 PM

I just cannot help but feel cheated, Either its a crappy fast over no contest win or its a battle that dosen't finish.

Urahara's battle really didnt' awe inspire me. His actions didn't really deploy or show his skills, its simply a unseen hit him without showing the damage to urahara then we see him reappear and suddenly the attack is no good, It would do better to show quick short flashes of him analyzing the power better.

Grimmjow is certainly my fav char now, his stance, his appearance, his drive. I also appreciate yammy, and Ulquiorra.

Ulquiorra is like Urahara I wanna see actual battles and a real showing of their skill or abilites, not simply flashes. Such buildup here it comes the guy i wanna see battle and then we really aren't treated to a showing of their greatness.

I need to see battles with Urahara, that display his skills like Sasori's battle.

Edit: I will be angry when I see Gin battle and his more stupid just long sword battle, I need to see and pray that I see a different skill, he is another of my fav chars.

Penner

Sat, 09-15-2007, 09:14 AM

They need to bring Kenpachi and Byakuya to the real world. We won't see a single dead enemy corpse otherwise.

Exactly.

U can never have enough Kenpachi! Bring it ON!

saman

Sat, 09-15-2007, 02:59 PM

I just cannot help but feel cheated, Either its a crappy fast over no contest win or its a battle that dosen't finish.

Urahara's battle really didnt' awe inspire me. His actions didn't really deploy or show his skills, its simply a unseen hit him without showing the damage to urahara then we see him reappear and suddenly the attack is no good, It would do better to show quick short flashes of him analyzing the power better.

Grimmjow is certainly my fav char now, his stance, his appearance, his drive. I also appreciate yammy, and Ulquiorra.

Ulquiorra is like Urahara I wanna see actual battles and a real showing of their skill or abilites, not simply flashes. Such buildup here it comes the guy i wanna see battle and then we really aren't treated to a showing of their greatness.

I need to see battles with Urahara, that display his skills like Sasori's battle.

hmm, yeah. i disagree. the reason characters like urahara and ulquiorra are placed on such a high pedestal by fans is precisely because we don't know the full extent of their powers. we're distanced from them, which makes them mysterious. if they were to go all out in what's obviously a puny battle to them, it would just cheapen them and be disappointing.

anime nomad

Sun, 09-16-2007, 09:26 PM

good episode, despite the unfinished business in every single fight.

soooo, Aizen has orihime now, what an interesting plot twist. anyone care to wager on whether Orihime will heal Grimjows arm?
once again Yami gets smaked around, although it must be noted that Urahara's Zampakto is one of the "always released" types like ichigo and Zaraki, and Yami hasn't even drawn his Zampakto yet, so technically Yami has won all his fights so far, cause by anime rules, Urahara powered up first and yami is still in normal mode, everyone knows the one who powers up first looses. (i know its arguable ...)
no preview again this week, new trend perhaps? keep us in suspense?

Crash

Sun, 09-16-2007, 10:16 PM

soooo, Aizen has orihime now, what an interesting plot twist. anyone care to wager on whether Orihime will heal Grimjows arm?
once again Yami gets smaked around, although it must be noted that Urahara's Zampakto is one of the "always released" types like ichigo and Zaraki, and Yami hasn't even drawn his Zampakto yet, so technically Yami has won all his fights so far, cause by anime rules, Urahara powered up first and yami is still in normal mode, everyone knows the one who powers up first looses. (i know its arguable ...)
no preview again this week, new trend perhaps? keep us in suspense?

I seriously doubt she'd heal grimmjows arm of her own free will. If Aizen wants her to then i imagine she will as she would have little choice in the matter. Though i believe at her current level of ability she can't restore something that has been completely destroyed, so she'd need to gain some mastery over her abilities before that could happen.

As for the comment on Yami "winning" his fight i'd have to disagree. If you want to go by those rules then Urahara won since Yami's current maskless form as an Arrancar is basically the equivalent of ichigo drawing out his Hollow Mask. In other words he's also constantly in a "powered up" state. On top of that Urahara appeared to put very little effort into the fight up to the point he was at. He was playing around with him, doing unnecessary shit like testing out his new Gigai. I'll giveYami the fight with Ichigo, but given the fact that latley ichigo's been acting like a bitch i'd say thats not much of an accomplishment.

animus

Wed, 09-19-2007, 10:03 PM

So I was thinking about how disappointed in how Hitsugaya's Sennen Houryu looked since I had read the manga. Honestly it should've looked something more like

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-rqO4CXx9Ho

which is the last special u see at the end.

Mizuchi

Sat, 09-22-2007, 10:43 AM

Exactly.

U can never have enough Kenpachi! Bring it ON!

If ichigo tied kenpachi when only using shikai, and he beat byakuya using only regular bankai before he mastered black getsuga tenshou, wouldnt byakuya and especially kenpachi get owned by the arrancar?

Im sure this is just a plot hole, but also, kenpachi totally destroyed tousen, and tousen wtf-pwnd grimmjow, and grimmjow wtf-pwnd ichigo. So thats like a game of rock-paper-scissors... ??

Kraco

Sat, 09-22-2007, 11:07 AM

Mizuchi

Sat, 09-22-2007, 05:33 PM

Kenpachi wasn't fighting Ichigo to destroy him. He only wanted a good fight and thus he scaled his own power use appropriately. At what point did the Kenpachi-Ichigo fight look like Kenpachi would be going all out? Perhaps at the very end when he released all his reiatsu you could say he did go all out but only in a manner of speaking. If Kenpachi really had wanted to defeat Ichigo, there wouldn't even have been a fight in the first place because our favorite orange head would have been dead before he knew what hit him.

The Ichigo-Byakuya fight certainly was more complicated. It's hard to say how it would have ended if Byakuya hadn't grossly underestimated Ichigo. But as it is, that's also a mistake and weakness of course. But on the other hand, he wouldn't be underestimating the Arrancar and would probably go straight for a kill unlike pretty much all the other people.

At what part did kenpachi go all out on ichigo? Idk, maybe the part where kenpachi says, "ichigo, im taking off the eye-patch and going all out"?

Byakuya may have underestimated ichigo the first time he had a sword right next to his throat, and arguably the 2nd time he had ichi's sword next to his throat, but after they both went bankai and ichigo put up a huge fight, i really doubt byakuya was holding back or underestimating ichigo when he tried to do his finishing white-glow move.

Kraco

Sat, 09-22-2007, 05:44 PM

At what part did kenpachi go all out on ichigo? Idk, maybe the part where kenpachi says, "ichigo, im taking off the eye-patch and going all out"?

I'm glad you could read what I wrote... But other than that, it changes nothing. Even at that point Kenpachi could still have used a bit of skill and killed Ichigo if he had wanted. However, he instead chose to confront Ichigo's simple sword swing with his own to see which one is stronger. Because that's what he was looking for ultimately, not Ichigo's demise. Who knows what he would do with Arrancars but if he actually does have a shred of a sense of duty, he might opt to kill those bastards efficiently instead of looking for some sport.

But about Byakuya you are probably as right as anyone can be with the information we have available. It's certainly a shounen tradition to start with cheaper techniques and then power up and up during the fight to defeat the opponent. If Byakuya hadn't done that, who knows (although the reverse is true as well)... I get a feeling he didn't have any idea what he was dealing with till the end of that particular fight. Still, now that he has got beaten by a nobody his arrogant disposition might have adjusted a little bit.

redcat

Sat, 09-22-2007, 06:19 PM

it has been a while so I might be wrong, but didnt hollow-ichigo turn the tables a nice bit in ichigos favor? (vs byakuya)

DeathscytheVII

Sat, 09-22-2007, 06:37 PM

Just because Ichigo beat those two doesn't mean they don't stand a chance against the Arrancar, I do believe that each of them are using their offscreen time to train and beef up. Kenpachi himself said he wanted to get stronger, and no doubt Byakuya is taking the Captain General's orders to train for the coming winter battle. I doubt they will be satisfied with just being the same strength.

Also, one of the main reasons i believe ichigo got his ass handed to him frequently by the arrancar was because his mindset after soul society was geared towards going back to a normal life, not constantly training to getting better and seeking out battles (as imaginery Kenpachi pointed out). His focus on fighting was frayed, not to mention his main concern was with the hollow inside him. So he was hardly the same Ichigo who fought Kenpachi and Byakuya to a standstill.

Remember how average Ikkaku was when we last saw him, now he has a freaking bankai from his offscreen training. I personally think that Kenpachi and Byakuya will be more than a match for the arrancar and espada. I mean, if Kenpachi could beat Tousen, and in the time frame between SS and Arrancar, tousen could beat Grimmjow (maybe tousen has acquired vaizard powers through the Hoyugoku?) then I can only imagine how strong Kenpachi and Byakuya are now.

Crash

Sat, 09-22-2007, 06:58 PM

it has been a while so I might be wrong, but didnt hollow-ichigo turn the tables a nice bit in ichigos favor? (vs byakuya)

Yes Byakuya's Endscape had rendered him unable to move. Hollow-Ichigo came out just as he was about to be struck down and dealt a good bit of damage to Byakuya. Of course if Ichigo had been more of a ruthless fighter he easily could have ended the fight the second he unleashed his Bankai and cut Byakuya's throat.

As for Kenpachi, i have no doubt he put everything he had into beating Ichigo there at the end. Yes he's the type that likes to toy around with his opponents and enjoy a fight, but not to the point where it reaches stupidity. He wouldn't hold back in a situation where his life would be on the line. On the same note, i'd say he's the only person in SS who's likely to have actually taken the time to improve himself since the SS arc. He doesn't fight for anything other than to compete and entertain himselft, after loosing to Ichigo i'd say he'd most certainly be training himself for a rematch.

I certainly hope we get to see him in action in this arc as he's one of my favorite characters, and there are certainly enough Espada to warrant having at least a few other Captain class Shinigami join the fight.

Remember how average Ikkaku was when we last saw him, now he has a freaking bankai from his offscreen training.

Actually, those flash backs were from before he fought Ichigo. He already had Bankai when they fought. As for why he didn't use it then, he explained that pretty well when he told Renji why he didn't want other people to know and why he didn't want to be a Captain.

masamuneehs

Sun, 09-23-2007, 04:28 AM

i'm relatively sure Byakuya and Kenpachi could handle themselves perfectly fine in a fight..

they don't strike me as losers, especially not by the traditional shounen stamp.

Yukimura

Sun, 09-23-2007, 05:32 AM

Power levels in Bleach have always been pretty shaky. Since everyone tends to use fancy tricks in addition to raw power we often see situations where the fancy trick would allow instant victroy if used a certain way, but it's rarely used that way. Cases in point:

When Byakuya uses his Senbonzakura he's shown that he has control over the motion of the cloud. Now if he can control all those tiny blades he should be able to focus them and use them to cut people in half instead of just making huge numbers of surface wounds.

When Tousen traps Kenpahi in his bankai Kenpahi couldn't really do anything until Tousen touched him. If Tousen lined up his sword on Zaraki's heart and made a thrust at full speed he should have been able to kill him. Even if that didn't work, he would have been able to try again from different directions, each time cutting up important parts of Kenpachi's body. Or he could have just cut his head off from the beginning. You can't really turn a decapitating strike into something non fatal in the time frame Zaraki was working in to make Tousen's strikes less damaging.

That being said, Kenpashi's raw physical power is also tremendous, considering he pushed his sword right through Ichigo's. The same sword that shattered Jidanbou's Axes and took Gin's Shinso without breaking.

Ichigo's superspeed should allow him to remove heads before people know what happened (though his speed has been rendered pretty worthless as people with just training and power have repeatedly shown they can keep up with it).

All in all the techniques people have generally could determine the outcome of these battles, the problem is, they rarely do. Instead the right character just wins because they are the on who is supposed to win. If Byakuya or Kenpachi were to fight an Arrancar they would probably lose if Ichigo was nearby and on his way to save the day. But if it was just the Captain and the Arrancar, then the Captain would likely be victorious for being on the good guy team.

DeathscytheVII

Sun, 09-23-2007, 05:30 PM

Actually, those flash backs were from before he fought Ichigo. He already had Bankai when they fought. As for why he didn't use it then, he explained that pretty well when he told Renji why he didn't want other people to know and why he didn't want to be a Captain.

I always thought that particular flashback was in post-SS arc, when there were three vacancies available in the captain seats. I don't remember too well what that was, but that was the impression i got when i watched that flashback.