Naruto Chapter 370

[UChessmaster]

Spoiler Pics:

http://i9.tinypic.com/540isqt.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/4qxafew.jpg

http://i7.tinypic.com/52npc1g.jpg


Put the spoiler warning in the post itself, not in the thread title next time

[Koyuki]

OMG, Uchiha Madara!

If the translation is true, Kishi is the king.

Finally, now everybody can see that Madara is the one in the Valley of Ends.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Looks like the frogs are going to be involved in this fight! And what was Jiraya standing next to? Looked odd to me!

[Idealistic]

Looks like the frogs are going to be involved in this fight! And what was Jiraya standing next to? Looked odd to me!

It was Pain who fell down from the sky as a big gigantic rain needle.

[KCMmmmm]

Madara looks young, and his clothing looks out of date. Possible flashback?

[Assertn]

Wow you guys....from what I've read from spoiler translations....
This could be like...one of the biggest plot chapters in a long time.

[Yukimura]

Yes, everyone should go read the tl. This is going to be epic.

[RyougaZell]

Holy shit... just readed the translations... and wow... wow and wow... the story will develop nicely the following weeks... hopefully we won't see millions of filler episodes before we can finally see this animated in a few months...

[mage]

how about linking to the translation hm?

[dsh1202]

from what I've read, this chapter is going to be epic, so many things revealed

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

From what I havent read. It isnt all that good. We'll see though.

[Teki]

RAW (http://www.sendspace.com/file/i9508q) if you guys need it.

[deadlydreamx]

Naruto 370[MS] (http://www.mangashare.com/forums/attachments/scanlations/84d1189796584-naruto-370-mangashare-naruto_370-ms-.zip)

[darkmetal505]

Setting aside all the plot development in this chapter, Jiraya's frogs are super awesome.

[Idealistic]

can someone upload it to sendspace or something... mangashare isn't working for me.

well i found it.... so here is the SS one..

http://www.sendspace.com/file/umoyhu

[Carnage]

Wow Im starting to feel about Naruto like I did in the old days.

So was much revealed, yet even more left unanswered; although that's how it usually is. :rolleyes:

[masamuneehs]

actually, i do think it's sorta weak that Kishimoto has all of this plot revealed by a damn frog... It's bad enough that it's someone we've never seen up until this point... but it's like "oh shit! I'm about to kill off Jiraiya! How do I get all his vital knowledge out there first?"

It does introduce several very interesting things though, like the idea that Naruto might be inept at certain things because he can only use one part of the Kyuubi's chakra... Confirming the fact that the 4th is Naruto's dad (about freaking time), and also setting up Uchiha Madara as the ultimate villain (I swear though, if they let Itachi off the hook for killing the clan, I'll still be pissed)

I mean, if Naruto can start accessing one "Yin/Light" tail, then a "Yang/Dark" tail... and actually balance it out as he utilized the Kyuubi power...

Or it could just be a bad "oh, you think Naruto is strong now? Wait until he unlocks all of the Kyuubi energy!" powerup...

All in all, the execution of this revelation is questionable, in my eyes, but i am damn glad that we're finally getting some of it. I don't think this chapter is bad, but I don't like where it leads the story... particularly on the Uchiha Madara front...

can someone post that Tengu Sharingan theory from like years ago? I'm seriously starting to think that bit of 'fanfiction' may be what Kishimoto is leading us to...

[Mkadoza]

ZOMG... Much revealed. To those who didnt want to believe it, 4th being Naruto's dad is confirmed. And it would really appear that Tobi is Madara, or at least has his power and his soul/intentions.

What was inferred. Naruto has only half of the kyuubis full power, his yang, which to me is a goddamn, because 4 tails crushed Oro. Also, the part of this kyuubi would be the "good" side, which would make me think there maybe some cooperation between he and Naruto, which can elaborated on later. Also inferred is that the 4th has a be-all end-all justu that requires a MASSIVE amount of chakra which is why Naruto was sealed with the kyuubi. The conversation between Jiraiya points to Naruto willfully unlocking the Kyuubi, for whatever reason, to help Naruto use this jutsu. The final inference is that Uchiha Madara summoned the Kyuubi, which to me blows my mind. And for Tobi to have that power, no wonder Sasuke's attack to do nothing.

Lots of curiousness. First is the cliched ultimate enemy. Who is it? Pein? Madara? Or something different? With Madara seeming to be scheming something, is Itachi involved, and will Sasuke be drawn in a plot for the "true heights of the clan" that Itachi preached before the massacre? What jutsu is being talked about and what will the relationship Naruto and Kyuubi turn into? And what about Root? The power of Hebi? A climax is approaching, with legends falling and being born and reborn.

All this and more, on the next episode of Dragon Ball Z!!! On a serious note, this is one of the more prophetic episodes where many of the players are revealed, and even some answers to past intentions. What will the future hold?

Awesome battles. =P

[Idealistic]

Hmm... Interesting indeed.

But I didn't quite understand. Is Jiraiya suspecting that Madara is the one that summoned the nine-tails to attack Konoha?

[animus]

I guess that's what he was inferring. But Shodaime being able to beat Madara is a bit questionable isn't it? The revived Shodaime that fought the Sandaime along with the Nidaime wasn't all that, though it is a revived corpse. Though, I'm sure it had all his abilities or whatever. Sandaime couldn't touch the Nine-tails when it attacked Konoha, no one could for that matter. That's when the Yondaime sealed the Kyuubi, something so powerful summoned by someone even more powerful/sinister Madara. And the Shodaime beat him?

Either there's a myth discrepancy or it's like a Rock Paper System...

[Sidnne]

ZOMG... Much revealed. To those who didnt want to believe it, 4th being Naruto's dad is confirmed.

This was already confirmed 3 or 4 chapters ago when Jiraiya was speaking with Tsunade before he left for the rain village.


The translation is kind of vague about this "key" thing. Are they saying the key has the power to reseal the kyuubi and also the power to release it?

Also, I didn't before, but I'm starting to believe the theories now that it was Madara and not Itachi who killed the Uchiha clan. I expect that when Kishi skips over to Sasuke and Itachi in the Uchiha hideout, Itachi will reveal to Sasuke what really happened. Then both will set out to hunt down Madara together. Of course, that's just a wild thought.



I guess that's what he was inferring. But Shodaime being able to beat Madara is a bit questionable isn't it? The revived Shodaime that fought the Sandaime along with the Nidaime wasn't all that, though it is a revived corpse. Though, I'm sure it had all his abilities or whatever. Sandaime couldn't touch the Nine-tails when it attacked Konoha, no one could for that matter. That's when the Yondaime sealed the Kyuubi, something so powerful summoned by someone even more powerful/sinister Madara. And the Shodaime beat him?

Either there's a myth discrepancy or it's like a Rock Paper System...

I don't believe Shodaime was alive at the time the nine-tails attacked Konoha. Which was why the frog was shocked that Jiraiya would imply that Madara could be behind the summoning. They fought at the founding of Konoha and couldn't have been alive 16 years ago.

[Death13a]

Either there's a myth discrepancy or it's like a Rock Paper System...

Plot device for mangaka's conveniences.

[Yukimura]

All Jirayia said was that Uchiha Madara, who lived at the time of the Shodaime and the founding of Konoha, was someone powerful enough to summon Kyubii-level creatures. This is interesting on it's own since we know that Shodaime had a natural ability to suppress/control Kyubii level creatures, perhaps they were originally partners, combining their abilities to beat up on everyone around . But anyway, the point I thought Jiraiya was trying to make was just that if Madara could do it, it could be done (of course if it's kishi Sharingan will probably be required somehow). While I wouldn't put it past Kishi to reveal Tobi as some sort of zombie/immortal Madara he doesn't necessarily have to go that route, he could just as easily make Tobi some obscure new Uchiha who is following Madara's path and trying to acquire the the level of power he possessed.

[dimitris127]

ok i believe this manga has too much info so naruto is holding half of kyuubin's power...and it's the good chakra right??and the good chakra could kill oro in fourth tail...damn i sure as hell want to see the evil chakra...and if naruto will be able to control it somehow...well i don't see another way for winning against those strong opponents...also i think itachi and sasuke won't have i fight to death...that's what i feel (but as i said that's what i feel)...damn so madara is still alive?this plot is getting very twisted

[Assertn]

Shodaime beating Madara could happen. Don't underestimate Shodaime, he even had the power to pacify demons WITHOUT relying on the death god.

[SilentSnake]

I just remembered that Kyuubi mentioned Madara when Sasuke "went" into naruto's conscience thus meeting nine-tails.

Looks like there is a very interesting story between Madara and Kyuubi.

As for Tobi -> it seems to me that he simply is Uchiha Madara and I don't really know why would you want him to be someone else, the fact that he should be dead for quite some time now is not really a problem for Kishi :P

[thejustin2]

well... if sarutobi's teacher was the first and second hokage and he prolly was like 75 when he died, and madara fought the first... that would mean he could be like a hundred? idk at least thats how i am understanding it.
and also i think the key he is referring to is like a map key. maybe to the seals used to summon the death god and maybe his research as well.

[Death BOO Z]

I recall I once theorized that the Akatsuki's leader and the 4th were involved together on the kyuubi summonning,,, I guess I still have it.

points to take notice off:
-Minato (4th) knew about the Kyuubi/Madare realtion beforehand, that's why he created the death god seal.
-the 1st probably sealed part of the Kyuubi itself into the amulet that Naruto has, which is why it's a conductor of energy.
-"that" jutsu is probably the death god seal, only this time, Naruto will really take the demon to the grave.
-since it was said that the wind country (sand village) has created the Shukaku priest seal to match out the Kyuubi of the fire country, and we know that Shukaku has been around for quite a while, it's likely to believe that Madare has found a way to limit the kyuubi's "spawnning point" to the land of fire, perhaps by creating a giant tsukiyomi and bringning sadness and anger to it.
-chackra types: if minato has only sealed the bad energy and left the good energy to be used by Naruto, it means that the bad energy is also the part of the demon that Naruto talks to, and when the sepertion is broken, the kyuubi will get a bit of personnality balance, and willl become a mentor charecter (I bet he's pissed at Madare for sticking him inside the smelly country).

[Knives122]

Shodaime beating Madara could happen. Don't underestimate Shodaime, he even had the power to pacify demons WITHOUT relying on the death god.

Don't forget we've had the introduction of a character with a less powerful version of this power(Yamato) I wouldn't be suprised if Tobi was the same.

That, or going with the trend of each Akatsuki member having a form of immortality , Tobi has acquired an ability similar.

[February]

exciting...Jiraiya should be more cruel to them..after all...he is a shinobi....
I really enjoy what lies ahead of us in the story, I suspected that Tobi was Madara but some people :shifty eyes: thought he was Obito. Anyhow, its interesting to learn that a person's summon dies with them? (I thought that was why Jiraiya suggested to the frog that he become Naruto's summon in case* ) If this is the case, shouldn't have Manda (Spelling? Oro's snake) died with Oro, and thus prove illogical that Sasuke used it to escape recently? or maybe we can conclude that it is another one of Oro's powers that Sasuke has gotten to get his hands on?

I really think Minato should have told everything bit of his plan to Jiraiya about the kyuubi sealing...after all, Jiraiya is a trustworthy guy and his teacher

And finally, we come to Uchiha Madara. Here is a quote relating to it from another user:



I guess that's what he was inferring. But Shodaime being able to beat Madara is a bit questionable isn't it? The revived Shodaime that fought the Sandaime along with the Nidaime wasn't all that, though it is a revived corpse. Though, I'm sure it had all his abilities or whatever. Sandaime couldn't touch the Nine-tails when it attacked Konoha, no one could for that matter. That's when the Yondaime sealed the Kyuubi, something so powerful summoned by someone even more powerful/sinister Madara. And the Shodaime beat him?

Either there's a myth discrepancy or it's like a Rock Paper System...

We really cant assume anything based on Oro's resurrection jutsu. For all we know, the revived bodies could only carry 10% of the original power/chakra of the real person.

I see what you are trying to say but you left out some very important points.

1. Its been generations and ages since the Madara vs. Shodaime fight, for all we could know, Madara could have been alot weaker than we are persuaded to assume long time ago, because we know that power level grows over time. Therefore, all those years after that fight, Madara could have achieved intense power through vigorous training and such. But, this point is weakened by the argument that Madara should have been immensely strong at the time of the fight because it takes someone extremly talented to summon the Kyuubi.

2. Just because Shodaime beat Madara at the time/event, does not mean that Shodaime > Madara. For all we could know, they could have another fight years later where no one knew about. (For example, Rock Lee beat Sasuke *in front of people* at the Chuunin exam, but look at them now, its obvious to see who is stronger even though they haven't fought again)

3. Assuming that waterfall with the two giant statues is the place they fought, Madara would have the clear disadvantage since he as an Uchiha probably specializes in fire jutsus while that area is full of water (water wall jutsu anyone? ) However, it takes more than mere element to decide the clear winner and its hard for me to believe that Madara got beaten by Shodaime as well.

[Viscero]

I wouldn't be surprised if Tobi was Madara. If he was the greatest Uchiha ever then he probably found a more effective way of prolonging his life than Oro did. Kishi definitely seems to be setting Jiraiya up to die pretty soon. Especially the fact that both Pein and Konan are after him at the same time. Poor Jiraiya lol.

Madara could still be pissed about everything that occured in his past so he controlled Itachi to kill off all of the Uchiha clan that he didn't deem worthy to carry the name. And, in the past the Fourth stopped Madara's plans of destroying Konoha by sealing the kyubi within Naruto so that could explain his grudge against Naruto.

Also you can see how Kishi seems to believe in the whole "history repeats itself" concept. Naruto and Sasuke's fight mirrors Shodaime and Madara's fight, the same can be said for the grudge between Jiraiya and Orochimaru, etc. It's like every generation has one of the same stories... two people who were once friends who became mortal enemies. Only now it seems that Naruto is trying to break that mold because he refuses to give up on Sasuke and accept him as his enemy.

In response to February's 3. about the disadvantage with the fire jutsu.... Sasuke and Naruto battled there at the "Valley of the End" near the end of the original storyline. Sasuke had absolutely no problem using his fire jutsus in that area.

[Assertn]

exciting...Jiraiya should be more cruel to them..after all...he is a shinobi....
I really enjoy what lies ahead of us in the story, I suspected that Tobi was Madara but some people :shifty eyes: thought he was Obito. Anyhow, its interesting to learn that a person's summon dies with them? (I thought that was why Jiraiya suggested to the frog that he become Naruto's summon in case* ) If this is the case, shouldn't have Manda (Spelling? Oro's snake) died with Oro, and thus prove illogical that Sasuke used it to escape recently? or maybe we can conclude that it is another one of Oro's powers that Sasuke has gotten to get his hands on?
Where does it say the summon dies with a person?
The reason Jiraiya summoned the frog was because if Jiraiya died, nobody else would be able to summon the frog.

[February]

The reason I thought the summon died with a person is because in this chapter, doesnt Jiraiya summon the frog to tell him to change owners incase he dies (because he's fighting a strong opponent)? or did I digest that info incorrectly
I thought Naruto could summon it already?

[itadakimasu]

masa : you were saying something about madara and it made me wonder if they're going to go the route of madara getting itachi to destroy the clan and maybe turn him into a good guy if he does not die in the next few chapters.

This chapter was so good, i hope jiraiya goes out with a real bang.

[Everon]

Strange that no one is focusing on Tobi standing at the 'Valley of the End' on top of the Madara Statue and that distinct looking eye.

Anyone else thinking Tobi has some ties to the Uchiha's?

[animus]

Strange that no one is focusing on Tobi standing at the 'Valley of the End' on top of the Madara Statue and that distinct looking eye.

Anyone else thinking Tobi has some ties to the Uchiha's?

... Wasn't that painfully obvious?

[DB_Hunter]

Strange that no one is focusing on Tobi standing at the 'Valley of the End' on top of the Madara Statue and that distinct looking eye.

Anyone else thinking Tobi has some ties to the Uchiha's?

I would advise you try to reading the chapter for this one instead of asking us....

It is so blatant now that there was a conspiracy behind the fall of the Uchiha clan, and Itachi is the fall guy. I agree with comments before that Itachi and Sasuke are going to team up in an attempt to take down Madara. I even think that the whole hatred thing Itachi keeps preaching to Sasuke about is actually how HE feels about Madara. Since this feeling has given him strength, he wants Sasuke to be the same as him.

This Madara thing is really interesting. If you notice Tobi has really short hair, different to Madara's. Now I know he could have just got a haircut to keep up with the latest shinobi hairstyles, but since the only character to change hairstyle (temporarily) so far has been Sakura, I think that Tobi is not Madara. He could be someone else who is aspiring to have the same power as him.

The Ying/Yang thing. I thought the Kyuubi was just pure evil anyway, and didn't have a good side? And what point does it serve to have Kyuubi's evil Yang stored in Naruto? Wouldn't it have been better to store the Yin, so the 'good' Kyuubi would not have been trying to damage Naruto all this time and instead be mentoring him?

It does look as though Jiraiya is about to get really busted up. I hope he doesn't, as he is such a great character. At the very least he should take out Pain, otherwise it would be disrespect to Jiraiya's ability as a ninja of legendary status.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Damn good Chapter. Minato is Naruto's Dad huh? Who knew!?! I cant wait for Naruto to find out. I think that he will be all pissed and resentful about no one telling him. That is a good chapter waiting to happen!

[chet_chetty]

It is so blatant now that there was a conspiracy behind the fall of the Uchiha clan, and Itachi is the fall guy. I agree with comments before that Itachi and Sasuke are going to team up in an attempt to take down Madara. I even think that the whole hatred thing Itachi keeps preaching to Sasuke about is actually how HE feels about Madara. Since this feeling has given him strength, he wants Sasuke to be the same as him.

I really like the idea that Itachi set up Sasuke to be filled with such emotion so that Sasuke could max out his own power. Depending if Kishi gives a really good retelling of the true happenings, if any, of the Uchiha massacre, I could care less if Itachi turns out not to have been the killer.

To take the hatred thing further, I picture Itachi having used Tsukiyomi at the time of the killings to manipulate Sasuke's memory of the situation. Maybe he knew all along that Sasuke had the true Uchiha power in him and instilled that memory of him being the killer. He would think with that hatred in him, Sasuke would be able to attain the true Uchiha power and become strong enough to kill Tobi because he knew he didnt have the potential. So many possibilities with the Uchiha story alone and it could be really exciting.

[Raven]

This chapter strengthens my belief that this series will be over relatively soon. There's some loose ends to tie up but this will be the last major arc, imo. Good stuff though. There won't be any mysteries left at this rate, not that I'm complaining. It's nice to find things out after wondering for so long.

[AlbinoFury]

I still think obito is related to tobi/madara somehow. The right eye sharingan only thing plus the short hair is too much of a gimme for kishi to pass up. not saying its him but wouldnt be the first time weve seen things like body transfers or something. And would put madara with a fresh new uchiha body pre kyuubi attack.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

I still think obito is related to tobi/madara somehow. The right eye sharingan only thing plus the short hair is too much of a gimme for kishi to pass up. not saying its him but wouldnt be the first time weve seen things like body transfers or something. And would put madara with a fresh new uchiha body pre kyuubi attack.


Could be that Obito was Madara, and then became Tobi. Who knows. Guess we will have to wait and find out.

[February]

I still think obito is related to tobi/madara somehow. The right eye sharingan only thing plus the short hair is too much of a gimme for kishi to pass up. not saying its him but wouldnt be the first time weve seen things like body transfers or something. And would put madara with a fresh new uchiha body pre kyuubi attack.

People are still going on with this junk theory? Dude face it, Obito is not, and never will be Tobi / Madara. The right eye sharingan was crushed under a rock and the left eye was given to kakashi. This chapter pretty much says Madara = Obito. Now that we established that, why would Madara would want to be a crummy little weak kid (remember, Madara was born before Obito) who cant even activate his sharingan until life-death situation? Oro's body transfer lets him transfer bodies but also carries his power/abilities with him. Obito couldn't even take out a ninja that was weaker than a jounin. And from looking at Kakuzu, we know that there are more than just body transfers to prolong your life. Its been decades for Madara. Is it so strange for a person to get a freaking haircut in 50 years+ ?

[Sidnne]

People are still going on with this junk theory? Dude face it, Obito is not, and never will be Tobi / Madara. The right eye sharingan was crushed under a rock and the left eye was given to kakashi. This chapter pretty much says Madara = Obito. Now that we established that, why would Madara would want to be a crummy little weak kid (remember, Madara was born before Obito) who cant even activate his sharingan until life-death situation? Oro's body transfer lets him transfer bodies but also carries his power/abilities with him. Obito couldn't even take out a ninja that was weaker than a jounin. And from looking at Kakuzu, we know that there are more than just body transfers to prolong your life. Its been decades for Madara. Is it so strange for a person to get a freaking haircut in 50 years+ ?


Its not unrealistic to think that Tobi could be Obito. The right side of his face was crushed under the rock, but that doesn't mean the eye was destroyed. His face, especially the left eye, would have been badly disfigured and thus the need for the mask, with no left eye hole. Even the similarities of the names gives plausibility to the theory.

I don't believe that Obito is Madara, but like someone said before Madara using a body transfer jutsu on Obito would not be out of the question either.
Obito couldn't take out a weaker ninja in the Kakashi Gaiden because he had just gained the use of the sharingan right before he was crushed. But if Kakashi can develop the sharingan, then so can Madara, who is of Uchiha blood, and thus give him very good reason to want his body.

[dsh1202]

i believe obito is tobi because:

1) tobi doesnt really behave like you would think madara would behave, tobi acts more like a kid/teenager. (most of the time)
2) Having a mask that only shows 1 sharigan
3) I heard some were that tobi has a lot of bolts and pins in his arms and body, which would hint at the fact that his body has been severely damaged. (like when some boulders crushed it perhaps)

[thejustin2]

or from the fight with the first
maybe the second attack with the nine tails was revenge for the defeat.

[February]

Its not unrealistic to think that Tobi could be Obito. The right side of his face was crushed under the rock, but that doesn't mean the eye was destroyed. Highly unlikely His face, especially the left eye, would have been badly disfigured and thus the need for the mask, with no left eye hole. Even the similarities of the names gives plausibility to the theory. Its not that simliar...its just the "ob" part. Akamaru and Shikamaru are simliar names but that doesnt seem to give any connection in the Naruto world

I don't believe that Obito is Madara, but like someone said before Madara using a body transfer jutsu on Obito would not be out of the question either.
Obito couldn't take out a weaker ninja in the Kakashi Gaiden because he had just gained the use of the sharingan right before he was crushed. If Madara took over Obito's body, he would still retain his power and abilities. I am sure he would know how to activate the sharingan in a second because he's so used to using one before. I am pretty sure Madara wouldn't forget how to fight and get almost killed by a chuunin-level ninja But if Kakashi can develop the sharingan, then so can Madara, who is of Uchiha blood, and thus give him very good reason to want his body.



i believe obito is tobi because:

1) tobi doesnt really behave like you would think madara would behave, tobi acts more like a kid/teenager. (most of the time) Yes, Tobi acted immature/weak but he did so in order to fool other Akatsuki members and avoid unnecessary attention focused on him. This is confirmed when Pain talks about losing Tobi ("a easy member to replace") but in fact, Pain is talking to Tobi at the back scenes so Pain was hiding Tobi's presence to the other Akatsukis.
2) Having a mask that only shows 1 sharigan
3) I heard some were that tobi has a lot of bolts and pins in his arms and body, which would hint at the fact that his body has been severely damaged. (like when some boulders crushed it perhaps) Its not yet confirmed whether those bolts and pins are part of his outfit or part of his real body. But if you look back at that page, I believe they are part of his outfit. But they are kind of odd to me as well.

Comments in red.
Conclusion:

The theory about body transfering to Obito is out because Madara lived before Obito, and thus should have retained his power like Oro when he performed the jutsu but it clearly shows he didn't because he almost got killed by a chuunin-level ninja during Kakashi gaiden.

Although there is a possibility that the damaged eye crushed under a huge boulder for Obito is still usable, it is highly unlikely to function after all that damage.

Several chapters ago, most users guessed Tobi was Madara. This chapter just indirectly said Tobi was Madara. Him sitting on "his " statue and Jiraiya mentioning Madara the page before is pretty much screaming Tobi is Madara to me. But I guess some people just have to wait until Kishi makes Tobi directly say, " I am Uchiha Madara. I am not related to Obito in any shape or form."

Sorry, I went kind of crazy in this thread

[Mhalador]

On the subject of summons dying with their master, Enma didn't die when Sarutobi died.

And thinking back to the flashback when Itachi explained to Sasuke why he killed the clan, he said something to the effect of to test the limits of this container. Perhaps Madara does have a soul transfer skill like Oro. It could be possible he took over Itachi and transferred over to Obito later on (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php?p=343884#post343884) (my theory about how Obito/Akatsuki). If the latter is true, it could also expalin Tobi's split personalities.

[KCMmmmm]

On the subject of summons dying with their master, Enma didn't die when Sarutobi died.

To clear up this idea once and for all. Summons are not jutsu that are created by the user. Summons are contracts between the user and the creature being summoned. Naruto can summon frogs because he signed the frog jutsu. Jiraiya's name, and the fourth's names also appeared on that contract list. Sasuke cannot summon snakes because he absorbed Orochimaru's mind, but can because he signed the contract.

Basically, if your name is on the contract, then you can summon that particular creature. The fact that these contracts were in existence before Naruto and Sasuke were even born negates the possibility of them being "handed down", or destroyed after the user dies.

Finally, in case you haven't noticed, some of these contracts are meant for more than one creature. By telling this particular frog to work with Naruto, Jiriaya was finally allowing Naruto to be able to summon him with the contract. The reason he felt the need to hand this down to him, was that he didn't want to frog's information to be lost. For some reason, this frog seems obedient to a particular master, much unlike some of the other summons we've seen before now.

And finally, since it appears relevant now: do you guys remember when Sasuke controlled Orochimaru's snake with his Sharingan? This might explain the kind of power which Madara used to be able to summon the nine-tails. Who would have though it was actually an allusion to past events?

[fahoumh]

Dude face it, Obito is not, and never will be Tobi / Madara.
...
This chapter pretty much says Madara = Obito.
This makes no sense.

[Atheist]

This makes no sense.

With Obito, he means Tobi. I guess he was just confused...

[Sidnne]

Comments in red.
Conclusion:

The theory about body transfering to Obito is out because Madara lived before Obito, and thus should have retained his power like Oro when he performed the jutsu but it clearly shows he didn't because he almost got killed by a chuunin-level ninja during Kakashi gaiden.

Although there is a possibility that the damaged eye crushed under a huge boulder for Obito is still usable, it is highly unlikely to function after all that damage.

Several chapters ago, most users guessed Tobi was Madara. This chapter just indirectly said Tobi was Madara. Him sitting on "his " statue and Jiraiya mentioning Madara the page before is pretty much screaming Tobi is Madara to me. But I guess some people just have to wait until Kishi makes Tobi directly say, " I am Uchiha Madara. I am not related to Obito in any shape or form."

Sorry, I went kind of crazy in this thread


Are you kidding? The only thing you see that is similar about their names is the "ob" part?

And I'm not saying Obito was Madara during the Kakashi Gaiden. But he could have come along in another body (one that didn't have the sharingan) and found Obito lying there half dead, and took his body so that he could have the sharingan again. Theoretically, he couldn't maintain all of his abilities if he was using a body that didn't have sharingan.

We KNOW that Tobi is Madara. At this point I don't think anyone is questioning that at all if they had read the chapters. But it is plausible for Madara to have taken Obito's body to have a younger body with the sharingan, extend his life, and now calls himself Tobi.

It's a theory. You can choose to believe it or not, that's up to you. But it has evidence and possibility, and therefore I'm not going berate anyone for choosing to believe it, But, writing it off at this point just seems a bit hasty.

[Konohamaru]

Nice Chapter this week. The obvious is stated (Minato and Naruto) and the face of Madara is revealed. After reading most of what ppl have already mentioned, I don't believe Tobi is Obito now. Instead I come to a new idea that Tobi might be Madara's Grand/son and is somehow related to the scroll that was hidden somewhere when Itachi told Sasuke to go read it. It might of mentioned more than just how to aquire the magekyou Sharingan.

I really wanna see the next chapter now. Stoked? indeed I am.

[February]

Are you kidding? The only thing you see that is similar about their names is the "ob" part?

And I'm not saying Obito was Madara during the Kakashi Gaiden. But he could have come along in another body (one that didn't have the sharingan) and found Obito lying there half dead, and took his body so that he could have the sharingan again. Theoretically, he couldn't maintain all of his abilities if he was using a body that didn't have sharingan.

We KNOW that Tobi is Madara. At this point I don't think anyone is questioning that at all if they had read the chapters. But it is plausible for Madara to have taken Obito's body to have a younger body with the sharingan, extend his life, and now calls himself Tobi.

It's a theory. You can choose to believe it or not, that's up to you. But it has evidence and possibility, and therefore I'm not going berate anyone for choosing to believe it, But, writing it off at this point just seems a bit hasty.

As I said earlier, I really dont think similiarity in names makes a difference in the Naruto world, and I also gave an example of such.

Why would Madara want a half-dead crippled kid's body that only has 1 eye for extending his life when he can use other fresh uchiha bodies (I dont think the Uchiha clan was wiped out during Obito's death) And if even that wasn't the case, he could have still used Sasuke's healthy body

And for your information, some posts in this thread really think that Tobi is directly Obito, and not related to Madara whatsoever.

Yes, anyone is free to believe in any theorys they come up with that has a least a little bit of possiblity. I wasn't berating anyone about that. It just seemed so far-fetched that I was trying to show points that made it clarify that it is an unlikely theory

[KCMmmmm]

How about the possibility that Madara is indeed dead, but another Uchiha has chosen to remain unknown and follow in his footsteps? I figure if Madara was the person who summoned the nine-tails, then he probably did it in betrayal to his village. So, he probably founded his own colony elsewhere, and had lots of Uchiha babies there. Then, at some point, he decides to wipe out the remaining Uchihas in Konoha to ensure that the Sharingan survives only in his new village. At which point Itachi gets involved, pretending to wipe out the entire clan, but purposefully leaving his brother alive to revenge the entire clan for the two of them.

Plausible?

Note the obvious absence of an Obito reference here; he's most likely not coming back.

[masamuneehs]

i think that it's Madara. There's no way they're just throwing around this guy's name, and he's hanging out on his statue, and then they'll suddenly say, "no, it's not Madara, but his great-granddaughter who...." I just don't see that happening, especially not with seeing how people from the First Hokage's era can still be alive using Forbidden Jutsu.

I don't know about if it's Obito or not... It's not the craziest theory out there.

And the fact that they've conspicuously left the Kakashi Gaiden out of the anime so far makes me think that maybe it's because they're saving it for a bigger shock effect later on... Granted, it won't work on manga readers, but... But I also can't think of a reason why they haven't animated the Kakashi Gaiden yet that doesn't involve sheer laziness...

The Obito = Tobi = Madara theory at least has the correspondence of him having a Sharingan for this current body (if in fact he's been switching bodies). But I'm believing it'll be revealed soon enough....

and, yeah, all this speculation is fine and all, but don't jump down people's throats so much... we really don't know what it'll turn out to be.

[LobsterMagnet]

Here's the link towards that Tengu theory about the uchila clan from naruto. I think the fact that that statue from the valley of the end has been revealed to be Uchila Mandara goes a long way towards proving this theory right, or at the very least he's on to something very close to what Kishi must be planning for the series finale. Check it out for yourself. He uses a lot of evidence from the manga to support his claims.

Don't agree with everything about the theory but I think it definitely warrants a look.

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?p=4148900#post4148900

[KCMmmmm]

I've read this theory before (thanks for posting it), but let me express the amount of disappointment I would feel if Kishimoto chose to use a bit of fan fiction to conclude his story. Granted....very well thought-out fan fiction. Still, I pray Kishi has the sense and the self respect to finish the story in his own original way, than to steal ideas made popular by the internet.

[Munsu]

I've read this theory before (thanks for posting it), but let me express the amount of disappointment I would feel if Kishimoto chose to use a bit of fan fiction to conclude his story. Granted....very well thought-out fan fiction. Still, I pray Kishi has the sense and the self respect to finish the story in his own original way, than to steal ideas made popular by the internet.
There's a difference between fanfiction and a well thoughout theory.

[Assertn]

I've read this theory before (thanks for posting it), but let me express the amount of disappointment I would feel if Kishimoto chose to use a bit of fan fiction to conclude his story. Granted....very well thought-out fan fiction. Still, I pray Kishi has the sense and the self respect to finish the story in his own original way, than to steal ideas made popular by the internet.
lol......

If Kishimoto was even aware that a site like narutofan existed, I think he'd be more inclined to shut them down, rather than steal their story ideas.

If the Tengu theory shows up...it's not because he stole it from some kid on an obscure western forum....it's because both him and the kid are following the same backstories of japanese mythologies.

[LobsterMagnet]

Some of the speculative bits are fanficish but the guy uses a lot of evidence to support his theory's which serves to indicate that he's stumbled upon something kishimoto's design of how he intends to wrap up the series.

I think there's alot of validity towards some of his claims more so then ever before especially with the revelation that the statue at the valley of the end is Uchila Mandara.

[chet_chetty]

...to indicate that he's stumbled upon something kishimoto's design of how he intends to wrap up the series.


If the Tengu theory shows up...it's not because he stole it from some kid on an obscure western forum....it's because both him and the kid are following the same backstories of japanese mythologies.

The use of Japanese mythology is one rather prominent design Kishi has implemented in creating the backbone of the main plot and many sideplots in Naruto. That in itself makes me totally understand how this guy came up with such a theory. All the evidence he ends up using is what validates it to me as being a great theory. I read that theory almost if not more than a year ago and since then i've been reminded of it a good number of times in subsequent chapters. Even if it ends up not being even close to true, I'd still consider it a really good theory and a good read in itself.

[Konohamaru]

perhaps Itachi didn't kill his friend to gain mangekyou.

[Death BOO Z]

Wild Idea.
Tobi isn't madare, but is trying to regain it's abilities.
Tobi is Obito, and recently (during the three year jump), gained the MS sharingan. which caused Kakashi to gain it aswell.
now, just to tie down some strings.

Obito came to to get the secrets of Madare from the Uchiha hideout, but even after killing everybody, he couldn't fing where it was, and was eventually stopped by Itachi, so he goes into hiding once again.
later on, after founding the akatsuki and using conan and Payne to manipulate everyone else, he makes Zetsu follow Sasuke, and then goes by himself to the hideout, and reveals the ultra powers of the sharingan (perhaps by killing the orriginal founder of the akatsuki, or killing and necromansering Payne back to life).