Naruto Chapter 363

[Zhan]

Spoiler Pics:

http://img128.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=46091_c8j3mcdj_2_123_71lo.jpg

http://img130.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=46090_c8j3mcdj_1_123_193lo.jpg

[Terracosmo]

OMG CAN IT BE LEADER & FEMALE AKATSUKI TIME NAO? :O

[Kuncoss]

Interesting pics!! I need a good translation... NOW! :eek:

[Atheist]

Wow I was just discussing, with my nephew, about when we would finally see the akatsuki leader and the other unknown akatsuki member. I can't wait for this chapter! :)

[Koyuki]

Omg, it's Naruto's dad and mom!

Edit: this is a joke :) Can't wait till someone scanlates it

[Psyke]

Looks awesome....

For the first pic, I can make out some of the japanese, and it says "As the leader (of Akatsuki), I cannot forgive failure".

Not too sure if he's referring to someone else or himself though.

edit: changed "allow" to "forgive" (許さん)

[BananaFob]

Since that's not a Konoha leaf symbol, it's safe to say that the Akatsuki Leader is not Yondaime/Fourth Hokage (I believe it's the Mist symbol).

[Carnage]

Omg, it's Naruto's dad and mom!

Edit: this is a joke :) Can't wait till someone scanlates it

No no, I wouldn't say thats out of the ball park....the guy does actually have a resemblance to Naruto......this is going to be gay. I just know it >.< :mad:


P.S. On second thought, I wouldnt be surprised if the girl turned out to be a guy. I first thought Haku and Deideria were chicks.

[Assertn]

Since that's not a Konoha leaf symbol, it's safe to say that the Akatsuki Leader is not Yondaime/Fourth Hokage (I believe it's the Mist symbol).

Nah, the mist symbol is 2 rows of 2 lines each. I'm not sure which one this is....

[itadakimasu]

Nah, the mist symbol is 2 rows of 2 lines each. I'm not sure which one this is....


I thought it was grass but wiki is telling me Rain. At any rate, this ends speculation as to who the leader is for the most part. the manga is rolling right along.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

I thought it was grass but wiki is telling me Rain. At any rate, this ends speculation as to who the leader is for the most part. the manga is rolling right along.


Here it is in Black and White....


http://www.narutofob.com/naruto-villages.html

Thanks Narutofob! Clears that one up for ya. -dg-

[Knives122]

Well it's about damn time we got to see those two. We only had to wait 1400 years.

[Foomanchew24]

I get the feeling that Terra will once again develope an infatuation with yet another of Kishi's bad guys, seeing as the leader is all pierced up.

[Terracosmo]

Possibly, but the aftermath of this chapter will mostly be spent laughing at everybody who thought that the akatsuki leader was the 4th. Sillybeans!

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

No no, I wouldn't say thats out of the ball park....the guy does actually have a resemblance to Naruto......this is going to be gay. I just know it >.< :mad:


P.S. On second thought, I wouldnt be surprised if the girl turned out to be a guy. I first thought Haku and Deideria were chicks.

I hope not because if you look, the "girl" in that pic is wearing heels. :p

-dg-

[Zhan]

And she has boobs. Apparently her name is Pein (pronounced Payne). Reminds me of that final fantasy chick.

[RyougaZell]

Holy Hell... wasn't expecting them so soon...
I hope this aren't fake or anything...
Pein huh? nice!
No name for Zero/Leader yet right?

EDIT:
Found this translation from the pic with the Leader and the Akatsuki girl at Mangahelpers:
"AL : As for the progress, it's meaningless without new members. If we have new members, the we can continue our goal.

BH : It's more important to get new strong members. Stronger ones than the previous ones.

AL : We can keep in touch if we set off here. (need some correction)

BH : Sooner or later it will be a bother staying here.

AL : This is the place whate we seize, but we have to move to a bigger place."

[elmojo]

Holy Hell... wasn't expecting them so soon...
I hope this aren't fake or anything...
Pein huh? nice!
No name for Zero/Leader yet right?

EDIT:
Found this translation from the pic with the Leader and the Akatsuki girl at Mangahelpers:
"AL : As for the progress, it's meaningless without new members. If we have new members, the we can continue our goal.

BH : It's more important to get new strong members. Stronger ones than the previous ones.

AL : We can keep in touch if we set off here. (need some correction)

BH : Sooner or later it will be a bother staying here.

AL : This is the place whate we seize, but we have to move to a bigger place."

it's a fake

[Assertn]

Trad from sho (narutofan):

ぬるぽバレ
Naruto spoiler [note: he keeps saying "nurupo" throughout the spoiler, not "naruto"]

デイダラ大爆発でぬるぽサイドも暁サイドもあのおーきな爆発なんだすかとびっくり
Deidara's explosion shocks both Naruto's group and Akatsuki. They remark on it's enormity.

で、暁陣営。鬼鮫さんとイタチが変な声と会話
It then goes to Akatsuki's group. Kisame-san and Itachi are having a conversation with a strange voice.

鬼鮫さんはクールに「あらら、またメンバー減っちゃいましたね。彼は結構強かったと思いますが 。後何か忘れ てるような」
Kisame-san (with a cool expression)- "Well well, another one of us bit the dust. And I thought he was pretty strong too. There's something I seem to be forgetting though..."

変な声「トビも死んだみたいだよ」
Strange Voice- "It looks like Tobi died too."

鬼鮫「そうそうトビでしたか・・・しかしあの逃げ腰が逃げ遅れるとは・・・そうとう　大　し　 た　術だった んですね」
Kisame- "Right, right, Tobi, that was it. Still, I'm surprised that the coward wasn't able to outrun that...sure must have been one hell of a jutsu."

トビ・・・・
Tobi....

水月は口寄せの術でサスケを呼び寄せます。出てきたのはマンダ。サスケはマンダに幻術をかけて 体内に入って ました
Suigetsu calls over to Sasuke with Kuchiyose no jutsu (summoning technique) Manda comes out. Sasuke applies a genjutsu to Manda and enters his body.

サスケさんボロボロですがね
Sasuke-san looks messed up though.

で、暁のリーダーらしいのが遂に登場。ペインって暁の女の方に呼ばれてました
And then, finally what looks to be the Akatsuki leader makes an appearance. He calls over to the Akatsuki woman, "Pein" [pronounced "Payne"]

ついでに暁の女の方も出てきます。でも、これよりまだ上に黒幕が居そうな描写が・・・
The Akatsuki woman comes out afterwards. However, now it seems as if there's someone else above them who's pulling the strings.

その黒幕はリーダーに「ぬるぽはお前が殺れ。失敗は許さん」
The one behind the scenes tells the Leader: "You will be the one to kill Naruto. Failure is unacceptable."

と、指令を出したトコでおわり
And it ends with those orders being given.


Edit: Erm.......lols..............
It seems every post in the thread I found that from has a different summary of the chapter:
http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15305

[Raven]

Possibly, but the aftermath of this chapter will mostly be spent laughing at everybody who thought that the akatsuki leader was the 4th. Sillybeans!
The leader is Naruto's dad. The 4th is his brother, Naruto's uncle. ;)

[KCMmmmm]

Whether it is, or isn't a relation to Naruto (or even Konoha as a whole), I think the orphan theme in Naruto has to reach a certain conclusion. His is the only lineage which has never once been stated, or even hinted at. In other words, even if the series ends without once challenging this question, my thoughts are that many fans will never be fully satisfied with the series until they discover the "truth" behind the Uzumaki bloodline.

The only thing I can think of which may be (but most likely is not) related to this is the chapter in which Yamato states that Naruto's chakra must be incredibly strong to withstand the poisonous chakra of the Ninetails. It makes me wonder if this "strength" is a trait which may have been passed down to him from his parents. Definitely a long shot though.

[itadakimasu]

good points about naruto's being an orphan. i think its plausible.

now damnit, where is a scanlation !?!?

[RyougaZell]

Forget an scanlation... we first need a raw!

Assertn:
I visit that thread at Mangahelpers searching for spoiler pics. Spoiler texts tend to be fake. If the one I posted earlier was a fake as well, I was fooled because it was posted alongside the Leader and Pein's pics.

[fahoumh]

Two more spoiler images, again courtesy of Mangahelpers (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15305)

Picture 1 (http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2507/834430ax9.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3807/834300vs2ts8.jpg)

[The Heretic Azazel]

Yondaime with a curse seal!???!?!?!?!!!!?!?!?!?!

[Jadugar]

@ KCMmmmm :

Naruto doesnt have a bloodline limit, he is a jinchuriki(sp) which is completely different. He is just a host for a biju(sp). I dont think that Naruto has reached a stage where his chakra can match the nine-tails. Sure naruto can sometime tap into Demon fox's chakra to get out of tricky situations but thats not a bloodline limit. Even the nine tail need Naruto to be alive. Also Naruto has increased stamina and healing ability, which allows him to recover from major injuries quickly because of the nine tails.


...................


Two more spoiler images, again courtesy of Mangahelpers (http://mangahelpers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15305)

Picture 1 (http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2507/834430ax9.jpg)
Picture 2 (http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3807/834300vs2ts8.jpg)

So the leader is definitely from the rain village but the leader's eye seem very similar to Kurenai's eye.

[KCMmmmm]

@ KCMmmmm :

Naruto doesnt have a bloodline limit, he is a jinchuriki(sp) which is completely different. He is just a host for a biju(sp). I dont think that Naruto has reached a stage where his chakra can match the nine-tails. Sure naruto can sometime tap into Demon fox's chakra to get out of tricky situations but thats not a bloodline limit. Even the nine tail need Naruto to be alive. Also Naruto has increased stamina and healing ability, which allows him to recover from major injuries quickly because of the nine tails.

Sorry, I should have chosen my words more carefully. By "Uzumaki bloodline" I simply meant the lineage of the family, not an actual bloodline limit technique. I know the Ninetails is Naruto's main source of power - and what makes him unique to everyone else in the series, but there must still be something to Yamato's words is all I was suggesting. Sorry for the confusion.

[Carnage]

The guy is definitely Naruto's dad. They're hair styles are so similar.

[KCMmmmm]

The guy is definitely Naruto's dad. They're hair styles are so similar.

Yeah, but his hair style also looks exactly like the 4th's....
Well, the leader of the Akatsuki is supposed to have red hair, if that helps offset the whole thing. Maybe Naruto's mommy was the blonde? :D

[BananaFob]

he guy is definitely Naruto's dad. They're hair styles are so similar.

I don't think so. That's like saying Hinata's dad is Neji's father because they both have long hair.


Sorry, I should have chosen my words more carefully. By "Uzumaki bloodline" I simply meant the lineage of the family, not an actual bloodline limit technique. I know the Ninetails is Naruto's main source of power - and what makes him unique to everyone else in the series, but there must still be something to Yamato's words is all I was suggesting. Sorry for the confusion.

I wish Kishimoto would reveal his history. Wouldn't it be such a twist if Jiraiya was actually the grandfather of Naruto? Kishimoto hasn't released Jiraiya's official surname (to my knowledge), so that's a possibility.

Since Jiraiya is now 53 from the time jump, Naruto is 15. If you minus that age difference, they would be 38 years apart. That's the age Jiraiya was at if which when Naruto was born. If Jiraiya had a son at 18, the son would have *created* Naruto at the age of 20, or vice versa.

[chet_chetty]

oh shit it's S&M Naruto! that action figure will sell out everywhere.

Anyways, AL doesnt have the sideburns like Yodaime...which I would think would be a dumb reason to conclude AL is not Yodaime. It's not like a different hairstyle would be AL's elite form of ninja deception to hide the fact that he's really Yodaime.

[mage]

Akatsuki Leader's hair is red, so he is obviously not Yondaime.

[ody]

Akatsuki Leader's hair is red, so he is obviously not Yondaime.

It's called hair dye.

[mage]

I figured someone would make that comment. Nobody in Naruto has ever dyed their hair, so why should anyone even begin to assume that Akatsuki Leader has dyed his?

[ody]

I figured someone would make that comment. Nobody in Naruto has ever dyed their hair, so why should anyone even begin to assume that Akatsuki Leader has dyed his?

God forbid Kishimoto implements anything new while progressing the Naruto storyline.

[Assertn]

You guys are being dumb.

Yeah the 4th went through some rough times and decided to pierce his ears 14 times, his nose 3 times, his lips twice, dye his hair red, wear swirly-eyed contact lenses, and, of course, purple nail polish.

Hey, it's a lifestyle choice, amirite?

[Terracosmo]

HE'S EXPRESSING HIMSELF, YOU CONFORMIST SWINES!

[fahoumh]

You guys are being dumb.

Yeah the 4th went through some rough times and decided to pierce his ears 14 times, his nose 3 times, his lips twice, dye his hair red, wear swirly-eyed contact lenses, and, of course, purple nail polish.

Hey, it's a lifestyle choice, amirite?

Werd...the "Akatsuki Leader = Yondaime Hokage" theory is ridiculous, especially since we now know what AL looks like. Yondaime is dead, accept it.

[FullMetalAlchemist]

Werd...the "Akatsuki Leader = Yondaime Hokage" theory is ridiculous, especially since we now know what AL looks like. Yondaime is dead, accept it.


NEVER!!!! (drops to his knees on the floor with arms in the air) he forever lives in our hearts (small tear rolls down eye)

Ive heard another theory before lol, Naruto is actually the fourth, instead of the kyubbi and him dying he was forced to reincarnate with the kyubbi inside himself lol. :P hey you never know.

[elmojo]

has everyone slammed their heads on a toilet a hundred times and flushed that sad excuse for a brain down the drain?

AL is not the 4th, its just sad how many people start linking the 4th and obito, it is the most uncreative thing if kishimoto actually linked obito with tobi or the 4th with AL

[KCMmmmm]

has everyone slammed their heads on a toilet a hundred times and flushed that sad excuse for a brain down the drain?

AL is not the 4th, its just sad how many people start linking the 4th and obito, it is the most uncreative thing if kishimoto actually linked obito with tobi or the 4th with AL

Perhaps, but it's also uncreative to construct a character and destroy him without fully developing him. Obito certainly went through some decent character development, but the same cannot be said about the 4th. This is the reason I think the 4th has to make some kind of reappearance; he's simply too integrated into the plot yet also too unrevealed to never make some significant appearance.

[elmojo]

i think obito was developed to make people understand why kakashi takes his tardiness to heart and the message he gave his recruits when he passed them, anywho i found another spoiler pic, cant really tell whats going on though

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3725/untitledrl8.jpg

[ody]

Yeah the 4th went through some rough times and decided to pierce his ears 14 times, his nose 3 times, his lips twice, dye his hair red, wear swirly-eyed contact lenses, and, of course, purple nail polish.

Hey, it's a lifestyle choice, amirite?

Quoted for motherfucking truth.

[Assertn]

i think obito was developed to make people understand why kakashi takes his tardiness to heart and the message he gave his recruits when he passed them, anywho i found another spoiler pic, cant really tell whats going on though

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3725/untitledrl8.jpg
Looks like Tobi and Sasuke bracing for impact and the konoha guys just looking up and noticing the explosion. Nothing unexpected really.

lols ody.

[Koyuki]

Now I have another theory. Maybe AL is Naruto's older emo brother? He killed his best friend and all of his family to awaken his eyes and test his strength?

It's hilarious with all the theories, I'm laughing and chocking on a piece of bread right now.

[DDBen]

Raws up from a couple sources

http://www.datorrents.com/download.asp?id=23740&name=%5BRaw-Manga%5D%20Naruto%20363%28chn%29.torrent

http://www.meganova.org/download/Naruto+363+zip/fee61adb91824e96d93787793442cf3b21c16518.torrent

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Nice quality raw.

Looks like summoning is his new trick. Now we just have to see Sakura do it and then we can have a Sannin-esq battle on our hands, Cant wait for the translation! -dg-

[UChessmaster]

anyone else noticed he seems to have piercings on his arms as well?

[ChaosK]

Perhaps, but it's also uncreative to construct a character and destroy him without fully developing him. Obito certainly went through some decent character development, but the same cannot be said about the 4th. This is the reason I think the 4th has to make some kind of reappearance; he's simply too integrated into the plot yet also too unrevealed to never make some significant appearance.

That doesn't mean with every spiky thing in the naruto manga has a correlation to the 4th or naruto.
"LOOK A BUSH! IT'S NARUTO'S GREAT UNCLE JERRY!"


The guy is definitely Naruto's dad. They're hair styles are so similar.

Sasuke and Sakura's hair are similar too, maybe Sakura's his mom. :rolleyes:


HE'S EXPRESSING HIMSELF, YOU CONFORMIST SWINES!
This was just too perfect...

[Yukimura]

Naruto 363 by boredom (http://rapidshare.com/files/44046848/naruto_363_boredom__mq_.rar)

Pretty low quality, but it's something.

Unexpected events abound...

[Knives122]

Hahaha, the second appearance of Manda and it's of his death.

Also it seems like the lousy plan of Akatsuki was actually thought up by someone other then the pierced person.

[Splash!]

Wait, What?!!!! So the Akatsuki leader answers to someone else.
Just when theories of the Leader being the 4th are being put to rest, this new guy shows up. And apparently, Sasuke also seems to be an important part of the plan.

In my opinion, the revelations in this chapter seem to have seriously undermined the importance of Zero in the story. I sense Zero's impending doom as he is dispatched to capture Naruto. Just when the leader is revealed, it turns out that he is just another lackey for someone else. Kishimoto is pretty much setting him up to be defeated soon. I am rather dissappointed by these turn of events.

[Carnage]

Yea, and this almost confirms that there's more to Akatsuki's goal than what was mentioned before. Otherwise why would they need Sasuke's eyes? I dont think they even expect that he would willingly join Akatsuki.

[Assertn]

Obviously, Pain's great akatsuki plan is merely a cover-up for a larger objective.

And the true leader behind it all......

UCHIHA MADARA =o

er...i mean OBITO.......
no wait....THE FOURTH HOKAGE

[Knives122]

It's the 3rd's brothers neice's uncle's brother.

[Meteros]

watch akatsuki taking orders from kabuto

[darkmetal505]

watch akatsuki taking orders from kabuto

No, know he is known as Kabuchimaru.

[rockmanj]

No, know he is known as Kabuchimaru.

i thought it was orobuto

[Assertn]

It's Kabutoro

[Koyuki]

Naruto 363 by MS (http://www.mangashare.com/releases/Naruto_363[MS].zip)


Well it's just getting better and better. Seems like we will have a fight with Naruto soon.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

So who ever he was talking to in the dark, looked to me like he was missing his left arm. So who in the series is missing an arm?....

-dg-

[Death BOO Z]

Somehow, i get the zombie vibe from the pierced Naruto copy. he and the firl kind remind me of Ren's sister and her pet kung fu zombie from Shaman King - sorry i can't remember the names.

so, we've seen 3 new members this chapter?
Payne, Zombie, and Nao, right?
Payne seems to be the leader, but the dialouge isn't very clear, it made me think that the Zombie is the 'leader', or at least is a leader stunt-man, while Nao and Payne are the two masterminds behined this...

by the way, how are we on the Akatsuki count?
Itachi, Shark-guy (sorry, can't remember his name), Sasori, Deidara, Hidan, Kazuku, venus flytrap baddas guy (zetsu), Zombie, Payne and leader.
that counts' up to 10, which is one person too much.


heck, I'm too tired to think, more on the subject later.

[Elyne]

Isn't Pein the leaders name? Because in page 15 you see the chick in the background and and the leader in the foreground. And the talk bubble seems to be pointing at the chick calling the leader to "get over here" because the new mysterious guy have arrived.

[Elyne]

by the way, how are we on the Akatsuki count?
Itachi, Shark-guy (sorry, can't remember his name), Sasori, Deidara, Hidan, Kazuku, venus flytrap baddas guy (zetsu), Zombie, Payne and leader.
that counts' up to 10, which is one person too much.


Shark guy = Kisame
So that would make it; Itachi, Kisame, Sasori, Deidara, Hidan, Kazuku, Zetsu, Unknown chick, Pein/Payne(leader).

[February]

good chapter and all but im a little confused about the sasuke's escape part. So he summoned Mandra(spelling?) at the last min and used genjutsu on him, I get that part. But he went inside its stomach and used a jutsu to fly? o_O Fly?

Wow and even someone behind the Akatsuki leader wants sharingan...why not just take them from Itachi instead of looking for Sasuke's?

[fahoumh]

Isn't Pein the leaders name? Because in page 15 you see the chick in the background and and the leader in the foreground. And the talk bubble seems to be pointing at the chick calling the leader to "get over here" because the new mysterious guy have arrived.
I think you're right. I read another scanlation and it seems to confirm it.

Pretty clever how Sasuke summoned Manda, used genjustsu to trick him, teleported with him to another area to safety. Then Suigetsu summons Manda, with Sasuke...too bad Manda ends up dying.

EDIT: This is the other scanlation: http://www.sendspace.com/file/beq97h

I thought their translation was a little easier to follow.

[Carnage]

For the first since the time jump Im getting pretty excited to read the following the chapters.

@Deathbooz: The other Akatsuki members dont know about the guy in the dark, so really it is supposed to be 10 members whereas everyone else believes its only 9.

[Elyne]

If what you say is correct Carnage, then it should have been 11, seeing how Oro was also a part, making them 10 + shady guy.

[Assertn]

No....the guy in the shadows is not an akatsuki member. Clearly, the entire organization was created by him to serve as a tool to accomplish a greater goal. There indeed used to be 10 akatsuki members, but that's only because there were 10 rings. Since Oro kept his ring, there's only been 9. If the shadow guy was in the group, he'd have contributed his chakra to the statue for the extractions and such.

[Idealistic]

Pein is Zero? Wtf, isn't Pein(Payne) a girl's name? Well only because the chick from FF was called Payne.

Wonder who that girl is though.

[Necromas]

Perhaps, but it's also uncreative to construct a character and destroy him without fully developing him. Obito certainly went through some decent character development, but the same cannot be said about the 4th. This is the reason I think the 4th has to make some kind of reappearance; he's simply too integrated into the plot yet also too unrevealed to never make some significant appearance.

Obito was created to be destroyed!

His entire purpose in the storyline was to be built up as in important character in Kakashi Gaiden and then killed off for the sake of Kakashi's backstory.

If they hadn't built up his character at all, his death and giving his sharingan to Kakashi wouldn't have had the same meaning and importance.

P.S. After rereading your post it looks like I misunderstood you partially.

[Elyne]

Pein is Zero? Wtf, isn't Pein(Payne) a girl's name? Well only because the chick from FF was called Payne.

Wonder who that girl is though.

Well, there is names that works for both girls and boys, though, I'm not so sure how it is with japanese names.

[Death BOO Z]

time for some more crazy talks.
in the chapter we saw that Sasuke summoned Madara (snake), made the snake eat him, and then had Sugi re-summon the snake to free Sasuke, right?

which means:
A. Summoned cretures live in a diffrent space from the rest of the world. that space can be the contract scroll.
B. A human being (Sasuke is still human, not god yet) can be taken to that place and return from it.

consider this option.
Akatsuki leader (Zombie, payne or Nao, whichever it is) and the 4th Hokage once worked together and have somehow accouired mega powers, the 4th figures out that AL (Akatsuki leader) is evil and runs away with the mega power. AL is pissed, but since the 4th is now overpowering him, he sitts quietly for now.
jump forward, the 4th fight the kyuubi, and by using the shinigami's strenght, he binds himself and the kyuubi into a container (AKA. a seal, a contract) which is Naruto.
So, right now, AL is trying to ressurect kyubi to free the 4th and take back that power, and he needs the rest of the biju's power to take away the mega power from the 4th.
Throw in some M.Sharingan theory and you have a neatly tied up ending for the story: Al steals that power, but Naruto, with the help of the 4th's ghost and Sasuke manages to kick his ass and uses that mega power to seal all the demons inside himself, thus powering himself up even more.

it can happen.

[toonice714]

@ DBZ:........lol

Anyway did anyone else hear sasuke say he can fly randomly. I know he can do it in his cs2 form but he said he has a flying jutsu. GAY! Manda was like the coolest summon so far and he's dead from some fairy emo kid throwin around his brand new genjutsu. Btw the Akatsuki boss is either Giovanni, the 8th Gym leader in pokemon, or The Claw, from Inspector gadget.

[KCMmmmm]

time for some more crazy talks.
in the chapter we saw that Sasuke summoned Madara (snake), made the snake eat him, and then had Sugi re-summon the snake to free Sasuke, right?

which means:
A. Summoned cretures live in a diffrent space from the rest of the world. that space can be the contract scroll.
B. A human being (Sasuke is still human, not god yet) can be taken to that place and return from it.

I don't think Summoned creatures live an another space or dimension. I think they get summoned from wherever their current location happens to be. So, if this theory is correct, Sasuke would still be in this world - whole and intact. Unless there is some evidence to suggest that the summons live in their own world which I missed. Sasuke must have had this idea planned for a long time, to have given Suigetsu a bottle of his own blood to use for the summoning.

I wonder if Tobi will have managed to escape? It appears the Akatsuki Leader (henceforth to be called Pein) doesn't mind the loss of Tobi very much, calling him easy to replace. And since he now knows of Sasuke's continued existence, does this confirm Tobi's annihilation? I think there's still a chance that Pein is merely working alongside another group...rather than taking direct orders from his boss. Whoever it was talking to him, they must be pretty confident in their ability to speak to him so commandingly though.

In other words, this chapter yielded more questions than answers....and any chance of the series ending with the Akatsuki Ark seems to be quickly fading.

[itadakimasu]

For the first since the time jump Im getting pretty excited to read the following the chapters.

9.

i just wanted to first state that i distinctly remember seeing carnage posting in the other forum saying he you didn't read the manga.. unless that is bleach.

anyhow, they had me for half a second thinking that sasuke had died. i think its awesome that akatsukis leader has been assigned to get the kyuubi. it indeed has gotten good

[Assertn]

I don't think Summoned creatures live an another space or dimension. I think they get summoned from wherever their current location happens to be. So, if this theory is correct, Sasuke would still be in this world - whole and intact. Unless there is some evidence to suggest that the summons live in their own world which I missed. Sasuke must have had this idea planned for a long time, to have given Suigetsu a bottle of his own blood to use for the summoning.

Nah, Jiraiya describes Kuchiyose as a space/time jutsu...implying some sort of parallel dimension. I would think of this as the equivalent of nightcrawler's teleportation ability.

[KCMmmmm]

Thanks. Guess I missed that. I'm really looking forward to the next chapter, more so than usual. Pein seems to be one of those "final boss" kind of guys....I'd really like to see his ability. I expect that, even with no relation whatsoever, some character will [I]have[I] to comment on how much he looks like Naruto.

I'm a bit curious about where Kabutoro went. He was the only character that didn't have a panel of him looking at the explosion, and he wasn't even in any of the panels with Naruto's group. Did they forget about him?

I hope Tobi survived....and it seems Kisame misses him as well.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Obito was created to be destroyed!

His entire purpose in the storyline was to be built up as in important character in Kakashi Gaiden and then killed off for the sake of Kakashi's backstory.

If they hadn't built up his character at all, his death and giving his sharingan to Kakashi wouldn't have had the same meaning and importance.

P.S. After rereading your post it looks like I misunderstood you partially.


Obito was created to explain how Kakashi obtained the MS. Basically seeing the loss of his friend allowed him to obtain it. Sounds good to me anyway. The whole Kakashi backstory was for that purpose really. -dg-

[Idealistic]

Obito was created to explain how Kakashi obtained the MS. Basically seeing the loss of his friend allowed him to obtain it. Sounds good to me anyway. The whole Kakashi backstory was for that purpose really. -dg-

Umm.... Obito was created to explain how Kakashi obtained the Sharingan eye. And why he values teamwork and friendship so much.

Nowhere has it said Kakashi got the MS from Obito.

[Atheist]

So who ever he was talking to in the dark, looked to me like he was missing his left arm. So who in the series is missing an arm?....

-dg-

I think the person in the dark must be Danzo. If you look at the place where Pein is at, you can see it's very similair to the place where Danzo and Sai are talking. Danzo is also missing an arm and he has his reasons to take revenge on Konoha. I guess we'll see later on, but I'm pretty confident that I'm right about this.

[Assassin]

Danzo has no reason to hate konoha. Infat, the whole deal with him sending sai to get oro's help was so he could better defend konoha.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Umm.... Obito was created to explain how Kakashi obtained the Sharingan eye. And why he values teamwork and friendship so much.

Nowhere has it said Kakashi got the MS from Obito.

No it is not said, but how else would he have gotten the MS? I mean Itachi said that the pain of losing a best friend would do it. So it is implied that yes he did get the Sharingan from Obito, but it is also implied that he trained using that pain and got the MS, there is no other reason to randomly put it in there. We know that he has the sharingan and that he values friendship, so why would they put the KS right in the middle of these 2 arcs unless they wanted us to assume that is how he got his MS!?!


And also nice to know that you have all the answers about Naruto, you must be a writer for the show right? Didnt think so, maybe next time you will consider someone else's opinion in an open forum before posting your point of view as fact. -dg-

[Assertn]

So you're saying Kakashi having MS is a +15 yr delayed reaction to his friend getting killed?

[itadakimasu]

The MS was not a result of just losing your best friend in kakashis case, but killing your best friend. Which is why sasuke did not gain ms in that way because he wouldn't kill naruto. you can only assume that kakashi gained the MS in some other way between his meeting itachi around chuunin exam and current story line.

[KCMmmmm]

The MS was not a result of just losing your best friend in kakashis case, but killing your best friend. Which is why sasuke did not gain ms in that way because he wouldn't kill naruto. you can only assume that kakashi gained the MS in some other way between his meeting itachi around chuunin exam and current story line.

Meaning that there must be more than one way to obtain it. Perhaps the look of the Mangekyou Sharingan is affected by the means through which it is earned? Itachi's eye looks much different than Kakashi's, and they each use different powers. Could it be that the power of each type differs, which would make one route of obtaining the MS more beneficial than the other(s)?

Or is speculation that Kakashi obtained it through guilt about Obito's death, and merely took this long to realize the power a more correct branch of thought?

Kishi had better explain this one soon; it's getting irritating.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

So you're saying Kakashi having MS is a +15 yr delayed reaction to his friend getting killed?

What that is not possible? Its not possible that Naruto told Kakashi about Sasuke's quest to get stronger than his brother by gaining the MS, and therefore Naruto told Kakashi that Sasuke wanted to kill him and that the pain of losing your best friend can help develop the MS? I mean as long as you have the trigger you can do it, but Kakashi may have never known the trigger, so maybe he did work on it. Just doesnt make sense for them to throw the KG in there like that with nothing other than how he got the Sharingan, I mean we already knew that, we dont need to see it at this time. -dg-

[Death BOO Z]

you make it sound like some sort of quest, "kill your best friend and get a free Sharingan upgrade!".

and then Kakashi hears about it from Naruto and goes to recieve the bonus?
sounds kinda dumb, doesn't it? if killing your best friend was all that was nesscery to do to get the MS, then Kakashi would've had it from day one. therefore, Kakashi has obtained it after the time jump (remind me, have we seen post timejump Gai?), through one means or another, but not from Obito's death.

[Idealistic]

Just doesnt make sense for them to throw the KG in there like that with nothing other than how he got the Sharingan, I mean we already knew that, we dont need to see it at this time. -dg-

Uhhhh.... Throwing in KG to show that Kakashi's teacher was the 4th, Kakashi got his Sharingan eye from Obito, and why Kakashi values friendship and teamwork so much makes PERFECT sense. We already knew that? How would you know that without KG?

What doesn't make sense is Kakashi all of a sudden going emo believing that Obito died because of him and then he gets MS. Why doesn't Sasuke just psychologically make himself believe he killed Naruto then? Then he'd get MS as well.

I believe MS is copy-able. To me MS is more of a Sharingan-only-jutsu rather than a bloodline limit. Kakashi probably saw how the MS worked when Itachi used it on him and then he trained throughout the years on how it works. Which makes me believe the reason why Kakashi's MS is different than Itachi's. Not because everyone's is different, but Kakashi's isn't really a fully developed MS yet.

[Shinda]

That was a fucking great fight. I wanna see it animated so bad.

And all this talk about MS is giving me a headache. If Tobi is Obito, that means Obito wasn't dead before now, so how was kakashi able to obtain MS? Unless the kill your best friend was a set-up from Itatchi or just believing you killed him/her is enough. And why would a bloodline limit suddenly be copy-able, if that's how Kakashi obtained it than the plot has a hole. All of it isn't making sense.

But back to this chapter. The new characters look stronger and more serious so that'll be a promise for a good fight, I hope.

[darkshadow]

Good chapter, manda dying was a bit meh.
And MS is not a bloodline limit, its an ability of sharingan.

[chet_chetty]

There's mad deception within the upper ranks. Pein, his partner, and the mystery figurehead all know Sasuke is alive. Kisume was easily duped. Itachi looks the same as always even though I think he's aware Sasuke is alive...or I think at least cynical of what Zetsu and Pein are telling him. I cant tell if Pein is giving Deidara his due respects or if he is overplaying Deidara's death like a coverup. I do find it pecular that Pein is hella downplaying Tobi's death though.

So uh.. one of Tobi's strengths is the ability to run fast? There should definitely be more to this and more to Tobi himself. The only significant things he's done were filling in Sasori's spot as Deidara's partner and giving the killing blow to a bijuu (and we dont even know how he did it). His introduction into this manga has certainly not been justified thus far.

[The Heretic Azazel]

I'm dying to see Tobi do something, but at the same time I'd hate to think Deidara blew himself up and couldn't hit either target (come on, you know he was annoyed by Tobi.) What a dilemma.

I thought this was the best fight of the whole series, except for Sasuke foiling every one of Deidara's attacks over and over. Dei should have learned the secrets of the sharingan in his battle with Itachi, given his one-eye-closed defense to it. But then, Sasuke may have pushed his bloodline to its limits, moreso than Itachi, and at this point, it looks to me Sasuke clearly outclasses his brother.

[conquistaDan]

I think everyone is going to have a hard time accepting that Sasuke is stronger than his big brother. At least I'm going to have a hard time getting through my head. Itachi is one of the strongest people in the series. I say Sasuke has a lot more work before he can even come close to his brothers ranks.

[itadakimasu]

you make it sound like some sort of quest, "kill your best friend and get a free Sharingan upgrade!".

and then Kakashi hears about it from Naruto and goes to recieve the bonus?
sounds kinda dumb, doesn't it? if killing your best friend was all that was nesscery to do to get the MS, then Kakashi would've had it from day one. therefore, Kakashi has obtained it after the time jump (remind me, have we seen post timejump Gai?), through one means or another, but not from Obito's death.

well death boo ... if you're just now joining us and did not watch the first 200 + episodes of naruto, i will fill you in with a crash course on the MS. Itachi killed his best friend and whiped out his entire clan to obtain MS... and if you can recall.. wait.. nm, death boo.. you just now started watching naruto.. im sorry. Back when naruto and sasuke were fighting, he did not finish naruto off because he didn't want to be minipulated by itachi to gain power in such a way. ok... end of crash course, you can go now.

[Yukimura]

The problem with MS is we really don't actually know anything about the mechanism of it's awakening. We know Itachi told Sasuke that he had to kill his closest friend to gain MS, but then he sent him to the temple place to find out the whole story. We don't know what else may or may not be involved with activating it, could killing your best friend automatically give you MS as well as the knowledge of how to use it? Maybe. But it's no less likely that there are other more mundane steps or conditions that are also required, like having three dots for example. When Sasuke confronts Itachi I think we might learn more about the conditions surrounding Itachi's own initial awakening.

[Death BOO Z]

well death boo ... if you're just now joining us and did not watch the first 200 + episodes of naruto, i will fill you in with a crash course on the MS. Itachi killed his best friend and whiped out his entire clan to obtain MS... and if you can recall.. wait.. nm, death boo.. you just now started watching naruto.. im sorry. Back when naruto and sasuke were fighting, he did not finish naruto off because he didn't want to be minipulated by itachi to gain power in such a way. ok... end of crash course, you can go now.

Really? THANKS! it was kinda hard being in a Naruto forum without *EVER* watching the series and knowing all sorts of stuff... I usually just throw in some names I commonly see and say how much I hate them to hide the fact I have absaloutly no idea what was going on.


Listen, Kakashi gained his Sharigan about 20 something manga years ago- AKA, Kakashi Gaiden. fast forward to the beginning of the series- Kakashi has sharingan, but not MS (else, he could have just *poofed* Orochimaru away from sasuke during the chunin exam, remember?), and I'm quite doubtful he even knew about the MS (though, I'm not really sure about this one).

now, after the time jump, Kakashi suddenly has that skill.
meanning he has aqquired it during off time.
unless you believe that Kakashi only now figured out that he killed his best friend and then followd some bizzare steps to awaken the MS. (MS quest objectives:1] Kill your best friend. 2] eat a complete pizza in less than 2 mintues. 3] have sex with a minatour. 4] talk to the master of being. Etc.. etc...).
if not that (hence my remark that it makes the thing feel like a quest), it must mean that something *ELSE* has happened during that off time, and that something is what caused Kakashi to get the MS.

either way, Kakashi's sharingan story is nowhere near completion.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Really? THANKS! it was kinda hard being in a Naruto forum without *EVER* watching the series and knowing all sorts of stuff... I usually just throw in some names I commonly see and say how much I hate them to hide the fact I have absaloutly no idea what was going on.


Listen, Kakashi gained his Sharigan about 20 something manga years ago- AKA, Kakashi Gaiden. fast forward to the beginning of the series- Kakashi has sharingan, but not MS (else, he could have just *poofed* Orochimaru away from sasuke during the chunin exam, remember?), and I'm quite doubtful he even knew about the MS (though, I'm not really sure about this one).

now, after the time jump, Kakashi suddenly has that skill.
meanning he has aqquired it during off time.
unless you believe that Kakashi only now figured out that he killed his best friend and then followd some bizzare steps to awaken the MS. (MS quest objectives:1] Kill your best friend. 2] eat a complete pizza in less than 2 mintues. 3] have sex with a minatour. 4] talk to the master of being. Etc.. etc...).
if not that (hence my remark that it makes the thing feel like a quest), it must mean that something *ELSE* has happened during that off time, and that something is what caused Kakashi to get the MS.

either way, Kakashi's sharingan story is nowhere near completion.


So tell me then Death....how did he get his MS then? Since you have all the answers and me having an opinion is SOO WRONG! Let me here the answer or even your theory, so I can tear that down. K thanks!

-dg-

[ChaosK]

So tell me then Death....how did he get his MS then? Since you have all the answers and me having an opinion is SOO WRONG! Let me here the answer or even your theory, so I can tear that down. K thanks!

-dg-

Nobody has the answer, that's why nobody else starts spewing random theories that are easily proved wrong. Also, I believe that Itachi merely told Sasuke that he had to kill his best friend to get the MS because he wanted Sasuke to feel pain and suffering (as if killing his clan wasn't enough)

Also, I dunno why I also thought Danzo (...the roots guy) was meeting Zero and Payne.

[Idealistic]

Also, I dunno why I also thought Danzo (...the roots guy) was meeting Zero and Payne.

I thought Zero WAS Payne?

[KCMmmmm]

I thought Zero WAS Payne?

Yeah, Zero is Pein. And, since it is spelled "Pein", lets go with that. He isn't the character from Final Fantasy X-2.

I just would also like to add another possibility to disprove the "Kakashi gained MS from guilt about getting Obito killed theory". Even if Kakashi's supposed guilt resulting from killing his best friend could awaken Mangekyou, there is also the question of who is truly his best friend. We know that Kakashi honors Obito as a soldier, and respects his final gift - judging by how he relies on Sharingan, and the change in his personality and tardiness after Kakashi Gaiden. However, I'd like to point out that Kakashi never liked Obito until just before his death; so I see at least a slim possiblity that - while he certainly respects him - Kakshi never considered Obito to be his single best friend.

In other words, Kakashi may have gained Mangekyou from killing another character, or may even have found another route to discovering MS. (I know I've elaborated on this idea multiple times before, but as it is regularly ignored, I felt I should point it out again.)

In any case, we should probably drop the whole argument....it's tiresome, and has never once led to any real certainty.

[Death BOO Z]

well, we never thought Sasuke cared about Naruto, but then he had all the cliche'd moments over at the cliff fight. so we can't relly on that.

there might be another way for the M.Sharingan, but nothing was hinted towards it, so it's as irellevent as saying "OMG! this new guy is Naruto's dad!" wherever someone new comes out. if there's something like that, then we'll find out about it, some day.
however, if there is more than one way, is it possible to get a double MS? like kill your best friend and then do the 2nd thing? maybe you can have a diffrent M/Sharingan type for each dot? up to six diffrent abilities? the ultimate way of cheapenning out what was once (about a gazzilion chapters ago) a cool thing.

who is zero? is it the leader? the newly introduced zombie? I don't remember the name coming around...

about my take on Kakashi's sharingan?
well, remember the purple haired girl? the one people keep refering to as Rin despite the hair color diffrence? maybe Kakashi told her about this MS thing and she made him kill her so that he could protect Sasuke?
stupid? yes. dumb? yes. Out of charecter? hell yeah!
but possible.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

Nobody has the answer, that's why nobody else starts spewing random theories that are easily proved wrong. Also, I believe that Itachi merely told Sasuke that he had to kill his best friend to get the MS because he wanted Sasuke to feel pain and suffering (as if killing his clan wasn't enough)

Also, I dunno why I also thought Danzo (...the roots guy) was meeting Zero and Payne.


Oddly enough, that seems like a random theory to me. And my theory about why they placed the MS/KS in there has not been proved wrong yet. The only way that it will is when Kakashi says..."BTW....The MS came from this...." So until then I am not wrong and I am not right. That is what these forums are about week after week, I think that you guys forgot about that, so narrow minded in your own ideas that you cant even allow someone else to have an idea. Must be nice to have all the answers...;)

[Yukimura]

who is zero? is it the leader? the newly introduced zombie? I don't remember the name coming around...

The name Zero is from the anime thread as far as I can tell. It refers to Pein/Akatsuki Leader. When Akatsuki was first shown in the anime they focused on each member and the symbol they stood on on that big bijuu sucker thing. The leaders symbol we Zero so people started calling him that.

[Honoko]

The name Zero is from the anime thread as far as I can tell. It refers to Pein/Akatsuki Leader. When Akatsuki was first shown in the anime they focused on each member and the symbol they stood on on that big bijuu sucker thing. The leaders symbol we Zero so people started calling him that.
I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) Masa was the one who arbitrarily declared the leader guy as "Zero" in a post and everyone went along with it.

[ChaosK]

So..uhh who's the final akatsuki member that doesn't even have a forehead protector of a village she's exiled from?

[chet_chetty]

Tobi may possibly be the mysterious figure. The figure says "Sharingan's power was shown well" indicating he saw Sasuke's fight w/ Deidara and specifically noting his incorporation of Sharingan in the fight. Tobi was the only one present for the entire fight who's death is not confirmed according to Zetsu. We do not know how long he was there for, but Zetsu being there for some duration of the fight may point to him being the mysterious figure but I can not really think of any commentary about Zetsu hinting that.

It just really gets me how Kisame brings up Tobi, Zetsu says he may have died, Kisame positively acknowledges Tobi, Pein negatively acknowledges Tobi as someone expendable and keeps the topic on Deidara, Kisame again gives positive account to Tobi's life and memory, then Pein rather abruptly makes his leave and the last thing he says is once again to mourn Deidara quietly keeping attanetion on Deidara and away from Tobi once again.

It's also weird because Pein has up this point acted as a leader who cared for the wellbeing of his subordinates and gave his condolences for every dead Akatsuki. Not only did he not mourn (or ask the others) to mourn a fellow team member, he insults the guy as a ninja right after his death. Very out of character for Pein imo.

[KCMmmmm]

Tobi may possibly be the mysterious figure. The figure says "Sharingan's power was shown well" indicating he saw Sasuke's fight w/ Deidara and specifically noting his incorporation of Sharingan in the fight. Tobi was the only one present for the entire fight who's death is not confirmed according to Zetsu. We do not know how long he was there for, but Zetsu being there for some duration of the fight may point to him being the mysterious figure but I can not really think of any commentary about Zetsu hinting that.

It just really gets me how Kisame brings up Tobi, Zetsu says he may have died, Kisame positively acknowledges Tobi, Pein negatively acknowledges Tobi as someone expendable and keeps the topic on Deidara, Kisame again gives positive account to Tobi's life and memory, then Pein rather abruptly makes his leave and the last thing he says is once again to mourn Deidara quietly keeping attanetion on Deidara and away from Tobi once again.

It's also weird because Pein has up this point acted as a leader who cared for the wellbeing of his subordinates and gave his condolences for every dead Akatsuki. Not only did he not mourn (or ask the others) to mourn a fellow team member, he insults the guy as a ninja right after his death. Very out of character for Pein imo.

Unless Pein never really considered Tobi to be a true member of Akatsuki. He seems to recognize ability more during his appearance in this chapter, than fondness. He claims that Deidara was "special", and Tobi was "a man whose abilities could be easily replaced". You're right though, it does seem a bit out of character; unless he is trying to cover up Tobi's survival, which is what I believe you are hinting at. I don't think Tobi can have died; he hasn't yet done anything to vindicate his existence. Using a behind the scenes move to defeat the 3-tails doesn't count; Kishimoto could have done that without creating a new character.

[darkmetal505]

Now I know where Deidara got his inspiration for his final attack from! Spongebob!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/Lennud/1185275400132.jpg

[fahoumh]

So..uhh who's the final akatsuki member that doesn't even have a forehead protector of a village she's exiled from?
Her name still hasn't been revealed...maybe we'll get a name in 364? (fat chance)

EDIT: LOL @ darkmetal's post

[February]

@KCMmmm

Even though Kakashi acted like he didnt care about Obito before his death, you can obviously see a strong bond relation despite the acting similar to the friendship of Sasuke and Naruto when they acted like they didnt like each other.

And because Obito was the only actual friend we've seen of Kakashi's (Sorry Gai doesnt count) and because he seemed so stressed about protecting his friends (shown in the beginning ninja introduction) that he couldnt (Obito), it all makes it safe to assume that Obito is Kakashi's best friend.

EDIT:
Oh, and I remember when Sasuke was talking to Kakashi under the tree. And Kakashi tells Sasuke that all his closest people died already (another reference to Obito?)

[Raven]

Why are people saying things are so "out of character" for Zero/Pein? When has he had character development? All we've seen so far from him is an order here and there and a bit of a spiel about taking over the world. I don't really get why him saying Tobi was expendable surprises people.

And it seemed to me that all the Akatsuki found Tobi annoying so it doesn't surprise me in the least that generally they wouldn't care if he died. Didn't he only get in because he found the ring? I guess we don't know that for sure.

[Assertn]

Tobi may possibly be the mysterious figure.
That's interesting, because I was also comparing akatsuki to shishio makato's main group from Kenshin (was it like, the 12 katana or something?), and how the stupid fat one ran away and later turned out to be a spy for a more powerful villain.

[ody]

I thought Zero WAS Payne?

Zero is the Naruto-looking dude, Pein is the female.

The guy in the background is Brian Peppers.

[Carnage]

@Assrtn: it was the Juppongata (did I spell that right?); shishio's top ten.

I really like the idea that the hidden guy is tobi....it would be one of the best guesses I've ever heard of pertaining Naruto except that tobi's personality doesnt allow me to see him as a super-villain.

[*Enlighten*]

Tobi first off all is a big plot in there series, he is that type of character who gets introduced as a simple insignificant character but let alone going to bring some depth to the series.... he is that type of character that is unknown but yet downgraded because little is known plus even the Akatsuki group belittle him... whether or not he is really Obito ???:confused: Is still questionable my guess is Tobi wouldn’t be introduce so late in the series to be irrelevant..

It’s a plot cover-up for what you may ask who knows???? I’m not declaring to be a “know it all” but every character seems to be introduced in the series so far has played a role….Tobi to be introduce as a new member of the A-team just to be demolish by the aftermath of Deidara explosion??? is to hard to swallow furthermore, I believe he is very still alive and kicking .

Pein or Pain however you want to spell or pronounce it let alone looks exactly Naruto??? Is it his Father? Mother ? Sister? Brother? :confused: We can go down the family tree line to pin point a right conclusion but still in most anime’s usually the main character is either an orphan or have one parent so it wouldn’t surprise me if he did or did not have a relative…. there is still some questions to be answer… and to top it off the leader looks like he is taking orders or working from a higher authority lurking in the shadows…. now there is more speculations which is a good thing, but I believe the Sharingan was suppose to be introduced to the show to imply that there are a lot of different ninja techniques and blood line limit but ultimately the Sharingan seems to overwhelm the series just ******a little

by the way I’m *Enlighten* I’m the “new guy” hello to everyone

[Assertn]

Nah Tobi won't be the mastermind....he'll be an infiltrated spy for the mastermind.

In that regard, the question would be, would Pein know about this? If he did, then that could be why he shrugged off Tobi's death, since he'd know that Tobi didn't really die. If he didn't, then maybe he truly did underestimate him.

[Idealistic]

Zero is the Naruto-looking dude, Pein is the female.

The guy in the background is Brian Peppers.

No, Look at the pictures... When they call for Pein, it's refering to Zero(Zero isn't his name btw.). The person in that panel has 2 fang-like marks under his lip.

@Enlighten. I agree, Sharingan seems to be the overwhelming bloodline. Also, there aren't enough "normal" ninjas who just happen to be godlike. They always happen to have some sort of mutated bloodline.

[KCMmmmm]

No, Look at the pictures... When they call for Pein, it's refering to Zero(Zero isn't his name btw.). The person in that panel has 2 fang-like marks under his lip.

@Enlighten. I agree, Sharingan seems to be the overwhelming bloodline. Also, there aren't enough "normal" ninjas who just happen to be godlike. They always happen to have some sort of mutated bloodline.

Guy is pretty decent. Jiraya is supposed to be "godlike", and he doesn't seem to have a bloodline. Sasori didn't have a bloodline or mutation - unless you count the fact that he put himself through intensive puppet body surgery. But for the most part, yeah - the powerful guys are freaks.

[chet_chetty]

In that regard, the question would be, would Pein know about this? If he did, then that could be why he shrugged off Tobi's death, since he'd know that Tobi didn't really die

That's exactly what I was implying.

More speculation...

Pein, female Akatsuki, and the mysterious figure know something that none of the rest of Akatsuki knows.

The whole war/economic monopoly reason Pein gave for the existence of Akatsuki is a ruse to manipulate Akatsuki to capture all the bijuu and they will do it because they think each of them gets to be the next jinchuuriki for their respective bijuu.

Capturing the all the bijuu serves as a goal for an unrevealed plan of epic proportions known amongst the suspicious 3.

Either Sharingan, or Sasuke w/ his Sharingan, is another thing to capture in the same vein of capturing all the bijuu. I'm thinking that's actually the most important thing above the bijuu except possibly Kyubi.

I want to say that ultimately this manga has always came down to Kyubi and Sharingan as the 2 most powerful forces/entities in the Naruto universe. But I have to admit my opinion is biased because of the Uchiha/Tengu theory. But the mysterious 3 seem to want (Sasuke's) Sharingan which ups the importance of Sharingan in the story moreso than ever before.

Itachi knows more than any other Akatsuki (besides the 3) and he is a wildcard in all this.

[*Enlighten*]

Guy is pretty decent. Jiraya is supposed to be "godlike", and he doesn't seem to have a bloodline. Sasori didn't have a bloodline or mutation - unless you count the fact that he put himself through intensive puppet body surgery. But for the most part, yeah - the powerful guys are freaks.


it was never once mention that jiraya is supposed to be godlike... we never really seen jiraya fight, he is powerful i mean he was the teacher of the 4th and his reputation is unfamiable ... if your talking about the 3 Sennin fight then its really invalid becuase if i recall Orochimaru was holding down his ground but retreated yes if you may say... Jiraya won that little scruffle but orochimaru fought with both his arms damage so? ???if he is so powerful and godlike??? how did Itachi then break thru his swamp toad looking justus with there first encounter??? and guy is not really decent in lata episodes becuase kisame had fought him at there second encounter and guy nearly lost his life resorting to using the "gates" but the funny thing is his charka level was at 30% and it wasn't even really him lol so you do math

and yes as i still stand i will still say the Sharingan is over whelming the series and they and Kishimoto needs to stop dwelling on the eyes there is more to naruto than itachi and sasuke um let me think??? how about naruto it is his show ....sasori was raw but he wasn't really human only his heart....and most of the Akatsuki members are basicly super humans ordinary hard working ninjas seems not to exist any more if you don't have a special abilitie or don't have a demon it seems that your out the game.... im jus sayin thats how it looks and you know its tru