Naruto Shippuuden Episode 17

[Deadfire]

Quick release from a group I've never heard of

Straylife Fansubs International
Link (http://www.datorrents.com/download.asp?id=22077&name=%5BSLF-INT%5D%20Naruto%20Shippuuden%2017%20%5BEnglish%20S ub%5D%20%5BXviD%20AAC%2B%5D%20%5BC2C86F55%5D.mkv.t orrent)

DB
Link (http://yhbt.mine.nu/t/ns017.torrent)

[Death13a]

Watched Straylife sub and it wasn't bad even through text would disapear before they done talking and pointless talking was this episode is all about.

[Foomanchew24]

The calm before the big fight i guess. Looks like the next episode wont air till the 21st =(, it's going to be a long wait.

[BioAlien]

Isn't Matsuri a filler character?
Overall, this episode was kinda boring to watch, nothing but talking.

And, is that Sasuke on Gai's back?
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3883/snapshot20070607231802pw2.jpg

[big_ac]

I just downloaded the Dattebayo release but.....there's no audio! Everyone says this episode is nothing but talk and I get no talk at all.

And that picture is from way back when Naruto first started running around with Jiraiya and Sasuke had just gotten taken down hard by Itachi.

[Stoopider]

Hmm. they must have fixed it. My Dattebayo works fine.

OMG! They F*ckin killed Gaara!!!! NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[animus]

I can't even download the DB release. It's stuck on Checking Tracker status, but I can see that there's over 11k Seeds, and 28k peers.

[itadakimasu]

things are moving.... im beginning to get a little more excited about naruto every week than bleach.

one thing... i am getting sick of the things falling and breaking to signal charactors that something has happened to one of their comrades.... it seems that is the umpteenth time i've seen a similar scene in such a short time

[Yukimura]

ZOMG! Good guy death! And not some old guard good guy who's time was passing (Sandaime), it's Garaa, loveable freaky Garaa. How sad.

Anyway other than that most of the talking was fun. Now Chiyo knows about NarutoxKyuubi. Now that they're all at the base, it looks like Diedara and Saori are more than happy to take them on, though Diedara did mention feeling exauhsted from the three days of jutsu and he should still be out of clay, unless he stashed some in that cave.

[Idealistic]

things are moving.... im beginning to get a little more excited about naruto every week than bleach.

one thing... i am getting sick of the things falling and breaking to signal charactors that something has happened to one of their comrades.... it seems that is the umpteenth time i've seen a similar scene in such a short time

ehh... what annoys me is the flashbacks about how naruto and X went through the same pain blah blah blah...

this episode was just talking... i guess like others said to get ready for the big battle... next episode might be an hour long one since there's no episode next week?

[lonewolfazn]

Did Gaara really die? i hope not, cause they just make me stop watching naruto. :-(

[Assertn]

You guys suck, I liked that ep.

Let's be reasonable, if they're gonna kill off Gaara, they should make it dramatic, amirite?
Plus, they're not gonna skip out the build-up just so they can prematurely start a big fight 4 minutes early.

Anyway....so it appears the statue has 3 pupils now.

[Crash]

Damn not only did they leave us hanging right when the episode started to get exciting, but they're gonna leave us hanging and extra week to boot. The bulk of the episode, as mentioned by others, was just rehashing things we already know so they could tell them to characters who don't but atleast it was done well enough to hold my attention by adding the suspense of waiting to see if Gaara dies. Then of course they all showed up at the entrance and to be honest i was really ready for them to bust in there, but of course not this week :p

I'm still not sure if they actually killed Gaara. I'm hoping they take the less cheesy route and have him dead and that the little scene of him looking at himself and talking was just kind of a look at his final thoughts. Not that i dislike Gaara or anything, i just hope that a route outside the norm for these kind of shows was taken. On the other hand the content of the talk with him self leaves room for the typical "character escapes certain death through strength of will and determination" in this case his determination to be a necessary existence for his village and the people in it.

I suppose we'll see in a couple weeks.

[RyougaZell]

Matsuri rulez.
Period.

And about the ep. Nice pace. Many didn't like it, but I did. It had a lot of feeling.

Long wait till next episode =/

[Kagari]

Great episode, loved the buildup. Later on, when im rewatching all the episodes in a chain, this one will be the kind that makes me click the next EXTRA fast :D I liked the flashbacks, despite everyone's complaints...I never get tired of seeing what motivates and drives naruto. He's never doin anything without a reason, and he's got such passion behind whatever he works for.

Even if gaara isnt dead, he's without the shukaku...could make for VERY interesting character developpment if he makes it out of this alive. How will he adapt to being without the demon? But...they did say that when it's removed, the jinchuriiki dies... :( :(

It will be the first time since Zabuza/Haku that im this sad a character dies...sure, Chouji and Neji made me all quivery, but they came back, and secretly i kinda knew they weren't dead...and when the Third died, it was emotional, but he was old, and took oro's arms with him, he died for the village, and he saved them all. Gaara...poor gaara...no gain from this death, save to build the anger of his friends and family...and of ME. He's always been one of my top faves in the show...I cant believe that he's really dead...i WONT believe it! but how can gaara survive this?

Another note, i loved the "kyuubi-eye" flash when Naruto starts speeding up...and of course, Gai Sensei popping up from bed and being ready to go 4-times the normal pace, priceless.

lol@ lee's "that's why i said THREE times the speed, Gai Sensei" when they tell Gai four times the pace isnt possible.

[DayoftheDante]

Okay, now I'm curious about what two Tailed Beasts were sealed prior to Gaara. I also wonder what affects the length of time needed to seal them. Is it just manpower(they mentioned it would take longer without Orochimaru) or is the strength of the beast factored in as well? And since Gaara's was the one-tail, does that mean he was the weakest and that this was the easiest sealing they'll have to perform?

[masamuneehs]

i enjoyed it. it had some weak points though. I couldn't personally care less about that random sand girl (though it was nice to see more Baki, that guy's got it), and Kankuro and Temari sort of pissed me off a bit. The show sorta pisses on them, since Gaara's sufferring is always emphasized to be worse than Naruto's because Gaara had nobody supporting him. Yet Gaara has a brother and sister. They constantly, silently, make Kankuro and Temari out to be horrible up until this point... where suddenly they care about their bro? Or was it that previously Gaara was too much of a psycho, living up to the fears about the Bijuu?

I hate Naruto's teary-eyed crap about how the suffering of outcasts is all the same, blah blah blah. They literally re-use that crap one out of every five episodes. This time, with the sequence of Naruto thinking about Gaara, and how Naruto's 'allies' appear one after another (funny how Ten-ten appears before Shikamaru, yet we've seen tons of flashbacks implying the two at least had some bond before even becoming Genin), but poor Gaara doesn't ever get any friends... it was EXACTLY the same as in the previous episode, but slowed down "to be more dramatic"... We get the fucking point already.

Interesting to know that Akatsuki has acquired (apparently) three Bijuu now. Wondering how they're dividing the power, or if they're just saving them all together to be used in one big spectacle when all the nine are captured?

Some small facts revealed about Chiyo and to her. It became very apparent that she'll probably sacrifice herself in the upcoming battle w/ her grandson and Deidara. (the flashback to start the episode, her "maybe there's something an old bag like me can do... something..." Yup, I'm putting 10 on her buying the farm.

I liked Gaara's death sequence, with the gradual disenfranchisement with his physical body.

"What's that?
Me?
That's me.
The me... whose existance someone else needed. (translation on this one?)
Why?... Why did I want to become like that? Why did I desire it so badly?
Those eyes.. That nose.. that mouth...
Why?
Why is that "Gaara"?
I used to be inside that.
But what am I now?
Just one state of consciousness
(rapid zoom out)
What did it used to be?
It was just... a small feeling..."
(I'd greatly appreciate some confirmation on the accuracy of the translation here)

[Kraco]

One thing I'm wondering: Things don't exactly look good for Akatsuki right now. Apparently only one-armed Deidera and Sasori are guarding the cave, and they haven't rested for days. And I very much doubt they could have put up an equal fight against all the Konoha manpower even in a rested state. But more over, the eye statue is in that cave. What prevents Naruto from using his giant rasengan to wreck the whole thing? At least Shukaku should still be stored inside it. Don't know about the previous two beasts: It could be the eyes would remain like that even if the bijuus weren't in anymore.

So, in that sense, Deidera and Sasori must likely fight to the death to defend the place, unless their back-up plan indeed is so masterful it will defeat that whole bunch of enemies. It would be worth seeing in that case. Even more so because you can bet Naruto will tap into some kyuubi power once he sees Gaara's corpse.

[DarthEnderX]

Worst fucking episode title EVER! God I hate it when they do that.

*sniff* There goes my favorite dude besides Shino...

It's nice to know that when Naruto taps the Kyuubi for extra speed he only gets about 20 feet ahead. That's real useful there.

The best part was the 3 pupils in the statue. I wonder if they put those Bijuu in akatsuki members or if the other two are still in the statue? That would be awsome if they beat D and Sas and then were "woo! Bijuu for everyone!!"

Actually I wonder if they put the shukaku back fast enough if Gaara would come back to life? Since we know the old lady already knows how to put Bijuu into people.

Anyway, it's gonna be a sucky two weeks!

[StillAlive]

I think this actually was a good episode as the story was build up with nice flashbacks to the fight with Deidara and Sasori in the (hopefully) next ep. The music was great just like in that scene right in the beginning when old-lady Chiyo looks at sleeping Naruto and thinks about that other kid (young Sasori I think?).

Actually I wonder if they put the shukaku back fast enough if Gaara would come back to life? Since we know the old lady already knows how to put Bijuu into people.
That was exactly what I thought whilst watching this episode as Chiyo mentions that she put Bijuu into Gaara and then says maybe she could be of some help...

[Harima Kenji]

That's what I'm thinking.. Gaara's death was too..simple. It lacked a very emotional music score or something..it felt so empty.

When I heard Chiyo say that she sealed Shukaku in Gaara, I just knew that she would do it again, and die in the process. Maybe she'll use the same kind of sealing jutsu as the 4th Hokage used to seal Kyuubi in Naruto.
It didn't make sense when Chiyo said that she sealed Shukaku into Gaara, since the method the 4th used on Naruto killed him, so I guess there are multiple ways of sealing a Bijuu into a person....or it's just a very deep plothole..

Gaara is just too cool to die.. he just..can't...

[Stoopider]

Yup not to mention the great doctor is there as well Sakura. Hopefully they can revive him, somehow. Gaara can't die! He's too cool a character to die. :(

[Assertn]

That's what I'm thinking.. Gaara's death was too..simple. It lacked a very emotional music score or something..it felt so empty.

When I heard Chiyo say that she sealed Shukaku in Gaara, I just knew that she would do it again, and die in the process. Maybe she'll use the same kind of sealing jutsu as the 4th Hokage used to seal Kyuubi in Naruto.
It didn't make sense when Chiyo said that she sealed Shukaku into Gaara, since the method the 4th used on Naruto killed him, so I guess there are multiple ways of sealing a Bijuu into a person....or it's just a very deep plothole..

Gaara is just too cool to die.. he just..can't...
Different seals work differently. In the case of Shukaku, it wasn't Chiyo that was killed, it was Gaara's mom.

[Genma]

I thought this episode was pretty... bad. The reasons include:

1) Lazy animators, who couldn't even bother animating/drawing Kakashi and crew jumping on branches while Kakashi talked to Chiyo. Seriously, they were just flying the whole time.
2) Naruto tapping into the Kyuubi to gain speed. I don't recall this ever happening in the manga -- although I could be wrong. If it was in the manga, shame on Kishimoto.
3) Filler character dialogue. I don't know who this Matsuri or whatever is, but I'm assuming she came in on a filler episode that I didn't watch. The talking between her and Temari was uber boring, but luckily short.
4) Gaara's death. So void of emotion; it reminded me of Rukia coming back after the Soul Society arc in Bleach. Although his last breath staring at himself, surrounded in white, was pretty cool, I don't think they really captured the emotion they should've.

Maybe I've just been spoiled by the manga. I dunno.

[Aeon]

For some reason I can't download this episode :(

[redcat]

Episode 165 was called Naruto's Death, and he certainly didnt die.

165 was a filler ep, but I think the same people come up with the names of non-filler eps anyway.

Gaara might be dead, but I dont think its quite set in stone yet.

[ASSpirine]

Aboslutely nothing happened in this episode... We did found out a few things.
That Gaara is the third Jinchuuriki they've acquired (third pupil that appeared)
And the so called death of Gaara who happens to get the assistance from the priest who bound the Shukaku with him before... I think this plot gets kinda visible. At least, that's what I'm expecting.

Also, nothing seems to happen in the next ep... So some real action will only happen over 3 weeks.

[masamuneehs]

so nobody here wants to confirm the accuracy of Gaara's "dying" monologue? Thanks.

[DarthEnderX]

*shrug* nihongo wakaranai


When I heard Chiyo say that she sealed Shukaku in Gaara, I just knew that she would do it again, and die in the process. Maybe she'll use the same kind of sealing jutsu as the 4th Hokage used to seal Kyuubi in Naruto.
It didn't make sense when Chiyo said that she sealed Shukaku into Gaara, since the method the 4th used on Naruto killed him, so I guess there are multiple ways of sealing a Bijuu into a person....or it's just a very deep plothole..It's most definatly two different sealing techniques. Since the 4th invented the one he used on Naruto. It's also the best one shown in the series as far as the well being of the jinchuriki is concerned. Kyuubi bearly effects Naruto at all unless he wants it too.

Gaara's on the other hand is much less stable. Every time he goes to sleep Shukaku takes over his body.

The downside to the 4th's of course is that it kills the caster. It's basically sacrificing the your own life for the well-being of the jinchuriki.

[Aeon]

Watched the ep and no way Gaara is dead. Atleast Matsuri got to talk this week.

[boilerph]

But more over, the eye statue is in that cave. What prevents Naruto from using his giant rasengan to wreck the whole thing? At least Shukaku should still be stored inside it. Don't know about the previous two beasts: It could be the eyes would remain like that even if the bijuus weren't in anymore.


Wasn't the statue summoned by zero? I was just assuming it would disappear when they were finished with it like other summons. By the way is anyone else wondering why Anima from FFX is being used for the extractions? I got it......Zero is Yuna's brother and Naruto is going to cross over with Final Fantasy.

[Kraco]

Wasn't the statue summoned by zero? I was just assuming it would disappear when they were finished with it like other summons.

Hmm... I don't remember anymore. But if that's the case, then they would likely just find an empty cave except for Gaara's body. Though Deidara and Sasori would still need to find a dark hole to crawl into to hide (really dark and deep to fool Kakashi's dogs), because they were physically there, even if the rest were just holograms and summons. They would have no need to fight, though, if there was nothing to defend. Not that they could fight in their present condition, but anyway...

[Assertn]

They would have no need to fight, though, if there was nothing to defend. Not that they could fight in their present condition, but anyway...
I think a jinchurriki arriving at the entrance to the Akatsuki hideout would be a good incentive to fight

[DarthEnderX]

Why? They can only do the ritual once every 3 years. What good is Naruto to them now?

Anyway, they're setting this up to make Akatsuke badguys for a long time to come, since they're supposed to be such powerful ninjas, they shouldn't be beatable by Jounins and chuunins. So instead, they only fought 2 members at 30% power, and now they're gonna fight 2 more that are exhausted. So yeah, they're probably gonna lose.

I wonder how long in the series it's gonna take before someone has to go 1 on 1 with a full powered akatsuki member.

[Kraco]

Otherwise yes, but I got the impression Naruto's bijuu wasn't even assigned to that pair (Sasori & Deidara). And besides, I doubt in their present condition they would even try, no matter if the opportunity is offered like this. After all, nothing really forces them to fight if they don't need to defend anything anymore, and thus dying while trying to capture a jinchuuriki sounds like a dubious tactical decision.

[ASSpirine]

Otherwise yes, but I got the impression Naruto's bijuu wasn't even assigned to that pair (Sasori & Deidara). And besides, I doubt in their present condition they would even try, no matter if the opportunity is offered like this. After all, nothing really forces them to fight if they don't need to defend anything anymore, and thus dying while trying to capture a jinchuuriki sounds like a dubious tactical decision.


Kyuubi is assgined to Itachi and Kisame. That's why they were after Naruto.

Also, I thought the bijuu would be transfered to one of the akatsuki. So they could use the power of the bijuu. But it seems like they just gather them and use it somehow...

[Harima Kenji]

Wasn't the statue summoned by zero? I was just assuming it would disappear when they were finished with it like other summons. By the way is anyone else wondering why Anima from FFX is being used for the extractions? I got it......Zero is Yuna's brother and Naruto is going to cross over with Final Fantasy.
hmz... Kingdom Hearts 3.. ;) Final Fantasy + Naruto.. would be a weird combo..

I'm not sure if Akatsuki can only do this once every 3 years.. but I can't recall what was said exactly in the episode where Jiraiya said something like that.

I didn't see it as Naruto using Kyuubi as a speed boost, but rather what happens everytime Naruto is pissed.

I thought at first that Naruto would simply crush the huge rock that seals the cave in pure rage, but seems like they'll use a more silent way :p

[Crash]

Kyuubi is assgined to Itachi and Kisame. That's why they were after Naruto.

Also, I thought the bijuu would be transfered to one of the akatsuki. So they could use the power of the bijuu. But it seems like they just gather them and use it somehow...

I believe that once a few ep's back Sasori reffered to Shukakku as "my bijuu" or something to that effect. The transfer of the bijuu into another person is likely a difficult thing, it's possible that Zero has designed this "statue" they are using as a container to hold them until they collect them all so that they can transfer all them into their respective members at the same time.

[masamuneehs]

I'd like to know where in the anime people are getting the idea that Zero can only summon the Bijuu extractor once every three years? I remember him saying that it's been three years since the last time they all got together, but I didn't take that as meaning they if they caught a Jinchuuriki prior to that, they couldn't extract its Bijuu...

I thought only Oro's body-switching technique has had a declarative time constraint on it. Maybe I'm wrong...

Clearly it takes alot of effort from all nine Akatsuki members to extract a Bijuu, and I seriously doubt they'd be able to do it immediately with Naruto, even if they somehow managed to beat the two Konoha teams and Chiyo. I think Deidara and Sasori are going to be fighting just to escape.

[uhicha neji]

I believe that once a few ep's back Sasori reffered to Shukakku as "my bijuu" or something to that effect. The transfer of the bijuu into another person is likely a difficult thing, it's possible that Zero has designed this "statue" they are using as a container to hold them until they collect them all so that they can transfer all them into their respective members at the same time.

He didn't refer to Shukakku as his Bijuu. He told Deidara that now that they had found his, they needed to focus on FINDING Sasori's. Sasori still cannot find his own Jinchurriki.

In my eyes, I only see Sasori and Deidara fighting because it was their responsibility to bring Gaara back to the cave with little to no attention, and they failed. They now have to step up to the plate and stop Gai and Kakashi's team.

I've got a question though... How come it seems that anyone that comes across Naruto, can always relate to him through a dead relative?

[gr3atfull]

In my eyes, I only see Sasori and Deidara fighting because it was their responsibility to bring Gaara back to the cave with little to no attention, and they failed. They now have to step up to the plate and stop Gai and Kakashi's team.

Or maybe because they are the only one there.

I actually liked this episode. It seems that next week Sakura will be useful again! And I don't believe Gaara is dead dead. Maybe he is dead now. But I think he can be resurrected. I mean he is an important character. They cant just kill him off.

[uhicha neji]

True, all the other members were just holograms or something.

[Idealistic]

Why? They can only do the ritual once every 3 years. What good is Naruto to them now?

Where does it say that? I thought they just didn't want to get Naruto yet because they wanted to seal him last or something since he's the nine-tails... And coincidently it just happens to be 3 years later...

[ASSpirine]

I'd like to know where in the anime people are getting the idea that Zero can only summon the Bijuu extractor once every three years? I remember him saying that it's been three years since the last time they all got together, but I didn't take that as meaning they if they caught a Jinchuuriki prior to that, they couldn't extract its Bijuu...

I thought only Oro's body-switching technique has had a declarative time constraint on it. Maybe I'm wrong...

Clearly it takes alot of effort from all nine Akatsuki members to extract a Bijuu, and I seriously doubt they'd be able to do it immediately with Naruto, even if they somehow managed to beat the two Konoha teams and Chiyo. I think Deidara and Sasori are going to be fighting just to escape.


That's exactly what I thougt, the 3 year wait Jirayja told Naruto was to rescue Sasuke. But because Oro already did the body switch, Naruto had time left to train and then rescue Sasuke.

If indeed the akatsuki need 3 years to perform this jutsu again, then it's very coincidental... Maybe too...

[mage]

If Akatuski needed three years between extractions, they would have to wait a minimum of 27 years to collect all the bijuu. Doesn't sound very likely to me.

[ASSpirine]

He didn't refer to Shukakku as his Bijuu. He told Deidara that now that they had found his, they needed to focus on FINDING Sasori's. Sasori still cannot find his own Jinchurriki.

In my eyes, I only see Sasori and Deidara fighting because it was their responsibility to bring Gaara back to the cave with little to no attention, and they failed. They now have to step up to the plate and stop Gai and Kakashi's team.

I've got a question though... How come it seems that anyone that comes across Naruto, can always relate to him through a dead relative?

That's a good one...

Sasuke: Orphan
Haku: Being important to someone
Gaara: Jinchuuriki, solitair as a child
Jiraiya: Reminds him of the yondaime
Tsunade: Her younger brother
Chiyo: Grandchild Sasori

Am I forgetting someone here?

[Terracosmo]

I'm getting pretty fucking tired of;

a) things breaking
b) people saying "I have a bad feeling about this" after something breaks
c) flashbacks and metaphors about naruto being similar to gaara
d) sand ninjas complaining about not being able to save gaara somehow
e) short clips of gaara suffering just to make ep longer (although that finally ended)

Seriously the last 10 eps have been close to identical

[uhicha neji]

That's a good one...

Sasuke: Orphan
Haku: Being important to someone
Gaara: Jinchuuriki, solitair as a child
Jiraiya: Reminds him of the yondaime
Tsunade: Her younger brother
Chiyo: Grandchild Sasori

Am I forgetting someone here?


That's all that I can think of as well.

[Crash]

He didn't refer to Shukakku as his Bijuu. He told Deidara that now that they had found his, they needed to focus on FINDING Sasori's. Sasori still cannot find his own Jinchurriki.

Well in either case it still makes my point. Each member seems to have a specific Bijuu picked out as their own.

[ASSpirine]

Well in either case it still makes my point. Each member seems to have a specific Bijuu picked out as their own.

I think there's hierarchy amongst the akatsuki. I think we can, with all certainty, say that Zero is the leader. And we all now that the Kyuubi is the strongest Bijuu of them all. So I think that Zero get's that Kyuubi. I mean, wouldn't you want the best if you can choose?

Although it is quite weird that Itachi and Kisame are the ones that are going after Naruto. Maybe it really has something to do from what country they came from. So they know how the hidden village is.

[Nintendo]

I'm getting pretty fucking tired of;

a) things breaking
b) people saying "I have a bad feeling about this" after something breaks
c) flashbacks and metaphors about naruto being similar to gaara
d) sand ninjas complaining about not being able to save gaara somehow
e) short clips of gaara suffering just to make ep longer (although that finally ended)

Seriously the last 10 eps have been close to identical

i am totaly with u.that is so boring

[Kraco]

I think there's hierarchy amongst the akatsuki. I think we can, with all certainty, say that Zero is the leader. And we all now that the Kyuubi is the strongest Bijuu of them all. So I think that Zero get's that Kyuubi. I mean, wouldn't you want the best if you can choose?

Assuming the Akatsuki will still last for a long while, I'll be really disappointed if no backstabbing ever happens. I mean, it's unlikely you would have a group of highly skilled and independent bad guys who all probably think they could beat at least some of the others, and yet they would still work like a flock of boy scouts. Especially if there are big differences between the powers of the bijuu.

Itachi is probably not the only one of these guys who has committed horrible acts. I don't remember if Kisame's past was explained in any detail, but for people like Itachi killing their associates wouldn't take anything more than a tactical decision and a chance. I mean, a normal person would hardly even consider his reason to murder his clan anything real.

Actually, now that I think about it, it would make sense none of them is going to get his bijuu before the others but they are kept in the statue until all are collected. If Itachi got his bijuu before others, I think it would perfectly suit his profile to test his new capacity by killing the others. And I honestly doubt he would be the only one of the Akatsuki to consider such an option.

[ASSpirine]

Assuming the Akatsuki will still last for a long while, I'll be really disappointed if no backstabbing ever happens. I mean, it's unlikely you would have a group of highly skilled and independent bad guys who all probably think they could beat at least some of the others, and yet they would still work like a flock of boy scouts. Especially if there are big differences between the powers of the bijuu.

Itachi is probably not the only one of these guys who has committed horrible acts. I don't remember if Kisame's past was explained in any detail, but for people like Itachi killing their associates wouldn't take anything more than a tactical decision and a chance. I mean, a normal person would hardly even consider his reason to murder his clan anything real.

Actually, now that I think about it, it would make sense none of them is going to get his bijuu before the others but they are kept in the statue until all are collected. If Itachi got his bijuu before others, I think it would perfectly suit his profile to test his new capacity by killing the others. And I honestly doubt he would be the only one of the Akatsuki to consider such an option.

hmm, maybe that's why they almost never meet each other besides the partner you're assigned to. A meeting is gathered only when necessary. So the chance of finding each other is difficult I think.

All I can remember from Kisame is that he was a former member of the Seven swordsman of the mist. Don't think he did some charity work there :p

I'm still wondering who was paired with Orochimaru, someone of the group acts all alone now.

[Assertn]

Well in either case it still makes my point. Each member seems to have a specific Bijuu picked out as their own.
Ah but.....

There's also that scene where they showed Sasori's puppet-esque mouth, and he says "It doesn't matter which bijuu I get as long as I get one, right?"

[masamuneehs]

True, it's hard to figure out if more tails = more powerful Bijuu... It seems to be common sense, however... I mean, if you got to possess a Bijuu inside of you, would it really matter if it was a one-tail or a nine-tail? ...still, because Itachi and Orochimaru are/were members of the group, I agree with Kraco, that all the extracted power must be set aside until all nine Bijuu are captured. Otherwise, the more ambitious group members (and there has to be a couple, Oro certainly was) would split after getting their Bijuu powers.

...i don't know. i just can't imagine there would be such trust among a group of bad guys who've obviously betrayed their old village. i'm naturally expecting back-stabbing between them. Zero seems to be smart enough to counter this, and I think that's the whole reason why the eyes of his Bijuu Extractor statue continue to hold the symbol of whichever Bijuu they've acquired, that he can't simply hand out the power to whichever member captured it, for fear they'll turn against the others or leave the group.

[DarthEnderX]

I'm not sure that more tails = stronger bijuu. That would make Gaara's the weakest?

They're probably all about the same. Endless chakra is endless chakra.

[ASSpirine]

I'm not sure that more tails = stronger bijuu. That would make Gaara's the weakest?

They're probably all about the same. Endless chakra is endless chakra.

I thought they once said that the Kyubbi was the strongest of the bijuus, because of the 9 tails.

[Kraco]

It looks like in practice the sealing technique used matters a lot when talking about the power of a jinchuuriki, at least. Though likely there's a price to pay with all sealing techniques granting more power to the ninja. Still, who knows what manner of a technique Zero is planning to use. It's of course somewhat probable he thinks he has perfected a suitable technique since he's collecting the beasts. But if each of these guys is going to get a bijuu by using the same seal, then only the power of the bijuu should determine how powerful they are purely as jinchuuriki. But right now I don't think it's possible to compare for example Naruto to what Gaara was before the extraction.

[DarthEnderX]

I think Kraco is right on there. Different sealing techniques obviously allow different amounts of the Bijuu's chakra to be use by the host. So the power of the jinchuriiki is not nessecarily the power of the Bijuu.

I thought they once said that the Kyubbi was the strongest of the bijuus, because of the 9 tails.They might have, but I don't remember it if they did.

[Assassin]

They've said that kyuubi has an unlimited amount of chakra...and i believe they also said that, that was what made it the most powerful. Ofcourse, the fact that the kyuubi is the one that the main character has, makes it the most powerful anyway by anime logic.

Also, (and this was discussed earler too, but just thought i'd put it out there again), the kyuubi was sealed within naruto to stop it from destroying the village.....the ichibi (shukaku) was sealed within gaara so that gaara could be used as a weapon, which means gaara would've had more access to shukaku's power compared to naruto who can just accesss the leaked chakra. I doubt we'll see naruto pull a transformation like garaa did, since the method of teh sealing was likely different.

[DarthEnderX]

Hmm, I'm gonna say "yes and no" to that second paragraph.

While, yes, the sealing technique was used to save the village, as we've seen from when the 3rd used the technique on Orochimaru, it can also be used to simply kill the target. Obviously though the 4th didn't have to take Kyuubi to the underworld with him. He instead sealed it inside Naruto, for the good of the village. Or for the good of Naruto. One of the two I'm sure.

[ASSpirine]

I think Kraco is right on there. Different sealing techniques obviously allow different amounts of the Bijuu's chakra to be use by the host. So the power of the jinchuriiki is not nessecarily the power of the Bijuu.
They might have, but I don't remember it if they did.


Hmm, never thought about the sealing technique of the Bijuu's...
I thought Naruto could utilize the full power of the Kyuubi if only he knew how. He never used it before by command, until the first time he called Gamabunta out. First it was his emotions, then sorta by luck and stamina. And still, he's hasn't been able to harness all the power of the kyuubi.

It's still the same principle, a Bijuu is sealed inside a human body. The Bijuu is restricted to take over the host. Although Shukaku did try to take over, but didn't this had something to do with the host being unstable. As we can all recall what a psycho Gaara was in the past :p

[Assertn]

It's still the same principle, a Bijuu is sealed inside a human body. The Bijuu is restricted to take over the host. Although Shukaku did try to take over, but didn't this had something to do with the host being unstable. As we can all recall what a psycho Gaara was in the past :p

No......

All Gaara had to do for Shukaku to take over his body was sleep. Kyubi has a bit less freedom than that =P

[Kraco]

It also needs to be remembered Gaara has always been protected, whether he wanted it or not, autonomously by the bijuu chakra. So, I think he didn't especially need to learn to tap into that power (though he needed to develop techniques of course) nor did he need to be under tremendous stress like Naruto was under Haku's bloodline limit jutsu. That also suggests the sealing used to trap Shukaku inside Gaara left the beast much closer to the surface, for good and for bad.

[JaySee]

I don't recall Gaara's sand shield ability originating from the shukaku. The only explanation we've had of that IIRC is it's his mother's love.

[Kraco]

Hmm... Well, I suppose that's possible. The demon just sounds more plausible to me than something cheesy like his mother's love. But who knows. You could be right.

[Crash]

I don't recall Gaara's sand shield ability originating from the shukaku. The only explanation we've had of that IIRC is it's his mother's love.

That was simply what his uncle told him in the beginning. However later as he was dieing he told Gaara that his mother didn't love him at all, and in fact he was a child she didn't want. It starts at 7:13 in ep 77 if you want to refresh your memory.

[JaySee]

Who knows what was truth/lies from that guy. Anyway, it could very well be some sort of seal/spell/technique put on by his mother/father/that old lady. No one's explained why it says "love" on his forehead. I'm guessing that's the seal or symbol for it.

[Assertn]

JaySee. You should probably watch episodes 35-75 of the original Naruto series. Your assumptions are making me lol.

They've explained all this, Gaara wasn't loved by anyone as a child. This was the central theme of Gaara's existence and they drilled it into the viewers' heads even up till these past shippuuden eps. The love tattoo was created by Gaara himself in the flashback where he kills his uncle, along with the realization he makes that only he will ever love himself. The mother has nothing to do with any passive sand shield.

[ASSpirine]

JaySee. You should probably watch episodes 35-75 of the original Naruto series. Your assumptions are making me lol.

They've explained all this, Gaara wasn't loved by anyone as a child. This was the central theme of Gaara's existence and they drilled it into the viewers' heads even up till these past shippuuden eps. The love tattoo was created by Gaara himself in the flashback where he kills his uncle, along with the realization he makes that only he will ever love himself. The mother has nothing to do with any passive sand shield.

I thought the blood of his mother has merged with the sand. And so protecting Gaara on it's own.

[Idealistic]

I thought the blood of his mother has merged with the sand. And so protecting Gaara on it's own.

I thought the sand was already protecting Gaara which is why his mother's attempt to kill Gaara failed...

That was his mother right? If not, I need to rewatch... Been too long.

[Assertn]

I thought the blood of his mother has merged with the sand. And so protecting Gaara on it's own.
You thought wrong. :(

[ASSpirine]

I thought the sand was already protecting Gaara which is why his mother's attempt to kill Gaara failed...

That was his mother right? If not, I need to rewatch... Been too long.

That was hic uncle Yashamaru.

Episode 76, around 11:50
Quoting Yashamaru:

The Shukaku of the Sand is a living soul that is usually used for combat purposes.
The sand automatically protects you because of love.
I believe the will of your mother is inside the sand.
My sister probably wanted to protect you, even after her death.

Next episode around 6:40

My sister did not wish for your birth.
She became this village sacrifice, and she died cursing this village.

About the love symbol on his head, his mother gave him the name Gaara. An Asura that loves himself (Asura: an enemy of the gods in Hindu mythology, a demon) Love only yourself. And fight only for yourself. He is not loved, even by his mother...

Hmm, so the love part of his mother isn't true :p
Well, then I'm out. Not gonna look for more. At least it kinda refreshed it.

[RyougaZell]

No episode this week.
Next episode will be next thursday.
Then another no-episode week.

Anybody know if there are any events these days at Japan? (and Im not talking about anything major, it can be double-episode for another series or something)

[JaySee]

JaySee. You should probably watch episodes 35-75 of the original Naruto series. Your assumptions are making me lol.

They've explained all this, Gaara wasn't loved by anyone as a child. This was the central theme of Gaara's existence and they drilled it into the viewers' heads even up till these past shippuuden eps. The love tattoo was created by Gaara himself in the flashback where he kills his uncle, along with the realization he makes that only he will ever love himself. The mother has nothing to do with any passive sand shield.

Mother died during or soon after his birth.
I definitely don't recall him giving himself the tatoo in the anime.
If that did happen, it might be in the manga. I didn't start reading the manga until much later.

[Assertn]

JaySee. You should probably watch episodes 35-75 of the original Naruto series. Your assumptions are making me lol.
Dude. You keep questioning details that are blatantly revealed in yes, the anime.
After Yashamaru dies, Gaara's sheer anger causes a massive concentrated blast of sand to hit his forehead and carve the "AI" tattoo.

Rewatch the Gaara backstory episode before you incessantly argue about what was or wasn't in there.

[JaySee]

I'll look into that. Like, I said, I don't recall it.

Gaara wasn't loved by anyone as a child. This was the central theme of Gaara's existence and they drilled it into the viewers' heads even up till these past shippuuden eps.
This is still a stupid statement having nothing to do with his mother and/or the sand shield. :rolleyes:

[The Heretic Azazel]

JaySee, your complete refusal to listen to common sense in favor of your twisted logic is crudely appalling yet strangely admirable.

[Crash]

I definitely don't recall him giving himself the tatoo in the anime.

Not that you'll bother to go look, but you can see this in episode 77 starting at 9:57 (AonE version)

[JaySee]

I'll look into that. Like, I said, I don't recall it.
I'm the one with screwy logic? Someone just said he'd look into it. Someone just assumed that he would not look into it after the fact. Hmm... :rolleyes:
Thanks for saving me the time to search for it though.

Funny how everyone's attacking me on the stupid tatoo and not on the actual issue here... :cool:

[masamuneehs]

Funny how everyone's attacking me on the stupid tatoo and not on the actual issue here... :cool:
On the issue of the origin of Gaara's sand shield? Well, since you said that you thought it was his mother's love (the lie told to him when he was younger), and it's actually not, I think that about rules out all the options except that the automatic sand shield is the Shukaku's work, how it protects itself.

And, bringing it back around to the earlier discussion, that point and the fact that Shukaku would possess Gaara whenever he went to sleep indicates that Chiyo's sealing of the Bijuu into Gaara was NOT as good of a seal as the 4th's of the Kyuubi into Naruto. Then again, Chiyo is still alive and the 4th is said to have died in the sealing process.

But whether that means that Kyuubi is stronger than Shukaku?... honestly, I'm with Assassin on this one; by anime logic, the Kyubbi is the strongest simply because it's the one sealed within the main character.

edit - i <3 crash

[Crash]

Funny how everyone's attacking me on the stupid tatoo and not on the actual issue here... :cool:

The tatoo is the new thing you've brought for us to correct you on. The first thing was already addressed the first time i responded to you and gave you a time stamp to start from. The only reason his uncle told him the protection of the sand was his mothers love was because he was lying to himself trying to believe that Gaara was his sisters beloved child and he should love him as well. As he lay dying he revealed the truth that his sister had no desire for Gaara to ever be born and gave him the name so that he would only love himself and only live for himself as a symbol of her hatred of the village.


And, bringing it back around to the earlier discussion, that point and the fact that Shukaku would possess Gaara whenever he went to sleep indicates that Chiyo's sealing of the Bijuu into Gaara was NOT as good of a seal as the 4th's of the Kyuubi into Naruto. Then again, Chiyo is still alive and the 4th is said to have died in the sealing process.

I don't necessarily think that means Chiyo's sealing was not as good. The fact is that the sealings were done with a different Purpose. Chiyo wanted Gaara to have full access to Shukaku's power because the sand intended him to be a weapon. The fourth on the other hand intended to seal the Nine tail away in order to save the village. In other words, the Fourths teqnique was intended to be a prison for the Kyubi, while Chyo's was intended to merge Gaara and Shukaku as a single entity to be used as a weapon. Different purposes and thus different effects.

[Assertn]

...and both techniques involved a human sacrifice. Just because Chiyo herself didn't die doesn't mean that Naruto's seal had a greater sacrifice. Gaara's mom still had to die as a part of the process.

[JaySee]

On the issue of the origin of Gaara's sand shield? Well, since you said that you thought it was his mother's love (the lie told to him when he was younger), and it's actually not, I think that about rules out all the options except that the automatic sand shield is the Shukaku's work, how it protects itself.
So you guys are going to believe the admitted liar's second version? That makes sense... :rolleyes: How exactly is it that an admitted liar's second statement become the "truth"?

[Crash]

So you guys are going to believe the admitted liar's second version? That makes sense... :rolleyes: How exactly is it that an admitted liar's second statement become the "truth"?

You're right, everything he said must be a lie. I've just figured it out thanks to you. Gaara didn't have a mom. He was a genetically engineered body created to be a container for Shukaku. You see, the people of the sand have been trying for years to create the perfect Jinchuriki. One that could withstand and control Shukaku without going insane. OMG that also means that Chyo probably isn't going with them to save Gaara, but rather to collect Shukaku so that they can try to transfer him to the newest test tube baby. It all becomes so clear if you just ignore the facts, i can't believe i never saw it before i was such a fool. :eek:

[Assertn]

Ok....its become less of a debate and more of a flame war now.

Crash, you've made your point. Let it rest.
JaySee, if you want to retort, then back it up with facts rather than attacking other members.

This doesn't even really pertain to this episode anyway....

[ASSpirine]

We can talk about the different ways of sealing a bijuu. But I'm very interested in the following. Yondaime Hokage sealed the Kyuubi just like the Third did. There was a battle between him and the Kyuubi. That makes sense and is believable.

But, HOW did chiyo put the Shukaku inside Gaara? It's not like Shukaku sits there and waits there. Maybe they took the Shukaku from someone else.

[Assertn]

Chiyo said that Gaara was like what, the 3rd or 4th sand Jinchurriki to bear Shukaku?

Shukaku was sealed within the ashes of a sand priest prior to the sealing Chiyo performed on Gaara. This was mentioned in that hospital scene where Gaara attempts to kill Lee.

[DarthEnderX]

I don't necessarily think that means Chiyo's sealing was not as good. The fact is that the sealings were done with a different Purpose. Chiyo wanted Gaara to have full access to Shukaku's power because the sand intended him to be a weapon. The fourth on the other hand intended to seal the Nine tail away in order to save the village. In other words, the Fourths teqnique was intended to be a prison for the Kyubi, while Chyo's was intended to merge Gaara and Shukaku as a single entity to be used as a weapon. Different purposes and thus different effects.See, thats the point I'm not entirely agreeing with. Since the 3rd used the 4th's sealing technique on Orochimaru, we know that you can use the technique to simply take the target with you to the Underworld rather than just sealing him up. If the 4ths only goal was to protect the village from Kyuubi, he could have dragged it with him to the Underworld. Obviously on some level, he also wanted Kyuubi to be used as a weapon by the village. Granted, that weapon is for protecting the village, but if his only goal is stopping Kyuubi he didn't have to seal it inside Naruto.

[Crash]

See, thats the point I'm not entirely agreeing with. Since the 3rd used the 4th's sealing technique on Orochimaru, we know that you can use the technique to simply take the target with you to the Underworld rather than just sealing him up. If the 4ths only goal was to protect the village from Kyuubi, he could have dragged it with him to the Underworld. Obviously on some level, he also wanted Kyuubi to be used as a weapon by the village. Granted, that weapon is for protecting the village, but if his only goal is stopping Kyuubi he didn't have to seal it inside Naruto.

A valid point, i stand corrected. It had slipped my mind that the user could simply seal the target within himself.

[Idealistic]

See, thats the point I'm not entirely agreeing with. Since the 3rd used the 4th's sealing technique on Orochimaru, we know that you can use the technique to simply take the target with you to the Underworld rather than just sealing him up. If the 4ths only goal was to protect the village from Kyuubi, he could have dragged it with him to the Underworld. Obviously on some level, he also wanted Kyuubi to be used as a weapon by the village. Granted, that weapon is for protecting the village, but if his only goal is stopping Kyuubi he didn't have to seal it inside Naruto.

That's simply because..... The 4th is the leader of Akatsuki.

Ok I was jk.. I would hope not. I agree with you though. I don't really understand the whole sealing thing.

[Assertn]

"Ah 4th, I see......it was to protect this boy....." - Jiraiya referring to Naruto's seal.

Man, you guys forgot like, every single detail pertaining to bijuu, jinchurrikis, and seals, haven't you?

[DarthEnderX]

Pfft, what does Jiraiya know. He's drunk all the time.

[iluvnaruto123]

what sucks is that naruto episode 18 isn't out yet

[Assertn]

That is the best second post ever

[StillAlive]

I'm not sure about this but perhaps the 4th couldn't drag the Kyuubi to the underworld because the tailed beasts are somewhat forces of nature that simply appear in the Naruto-Universe. So it's not like the Kyuubi is the spirit of a certain dead fox that can be taken to the underworld like a human spirit but rather a nature spirit that can't be killed or get rid of (sry for the crappy comparision). Therfore sealing may be the best way to deal with them :confused:

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, maybe that's it.

I'm sure they'll explain it someday.

[GreatLimmick]

Why explain when it's so much easier to handwave, make cryptic references, and come back to it again in a hundred episodes to confuddle the situation even more?

[Psyke]

Just 2 things I'd like to point out amidst the discussions:

Although the kangi on Gaara's forehead "ai" (愛) means love, it is also part of his name "Gaara" (我愛羅). Might not mean anything special, but some of you guys might not have noticed it.

And with reference to StillAlive's post that the Kyuubi is the spirit of a certain dead fox, it's actually the opposite. In Japanese mythical folklore, such beings appear because they have lived for a very long time, or ate a lot of humans, and in fact has become a deity. That's why they are feared and are also worshipped.

[XaVi£r]

hey it's been 2 weeks without releasing a new episode. any words when 18 is gonna get out? ty

[Idealistic]

hey it's been 2 weeks without releasing a new episode. any words when 18 is gonna get out? ty

I like how you made a new name to ask this question so nobody knows the real you.

Hah!

But umm... Like it said on the previews of episode 17.... June 21st which is today... It's still early... give it some time...