Naruto Shippuuden Episode 13

[ASSpirine]

http://yhbt.mine.nu/t/ns013.torrent

Let us all enjoy a great Naruto episode.

[LinkTetra]

Uh, did I accidentally download DBZ instead?

That was quite possibly the most dull episode I have ever seen. There were more interesting fillers. Absolutely nothing happened ...

[Idealistic]

Hmm... This episode slowed down a bit, but still it kept me on the edge of my seat.

For some reason i still laugh when Gai goes "It's you!!, who are you?!" And how he discovered the sword was Kisame's weapon and Lee was the only one like "WOW! YOU ARE SO COOL FOR NOTICING!"

As for the Itachi battle... When sakura and chiyo were down, that was just Naruto caught in the gengutsu right?

[zangetsu]

good episode imo. Kakashi seems to have mastered some sort of technique from Itachi's expression. could it be that moon technique? that would be awesome. naruto is dumb as always, getting caught by itachi's genjutsu like that. hopefully the next episode will prove me wrong about naruto. and what the heck is wrong with Gai's team? i know Kisame is an akatsuki, but still, how is it possible for him to go against Gai and the rest? Neji is a freakin jounin for god's sake. its ridiculous how they got caught by that water prison technique so easily.

[animus]

good episode imo. Kakashi seems to have mastered some sort of technique from Itachi's expression. could it be that moon technique? that would be awesome. naruto is dumb as always, getting caught by itachi's genjutsu like that. hopefully the next episode will prove me wrong about naruto. and what the heck is wrong with Gai's team? i know Kisame is an akatsuki, but still, how is it possible for him to go against Gai and the rest? Neji is a freakin jounin for god's sake. its ridiculous how they got caught by that water prison technique so easily.

I agree. But whatever, it's Naruto. You can only expect so much.

[Idealistic]

I agree. But whatever, it's Naruto. You can only expect so much.

Well.... would you have figured out when the gengutsu was used on you?

I certainly did not. When I saw all those illusionary tricks, I was like whoa, when did Itachi catch Naruto in his gengutsu?

[Krbadass]

What did kakashi mean when he said , Itachi, how bad has your eyesight gotten? i have a few theories but i was wondering what you guys thought.

[animus]

Well.... would you have figured out when the gengutsu was used on you?

I certainly did not. When I saw all those illusionary tricks, I was like whoa, when did Itachi catch Naruto in his gengutsu?

Not the Itachi part, the Kisame part, where he catches Lee, Neji, and TenTen in the Water Prison. TenTen maybe, but Lee and Neji especially since he's a jounin, I find it kinda lame.

[Idealistic]

Not the Itachi part, the Kisame part, where he catches Lee, Neji, and TenTen in the Water Prison. TenTen maybe, but Lee and Neji especially since he's a jounin, I find it kinda lame.


Ohhhh.. But Kakashi got caught by Zabuza before too so. Besides, the 3 of them were approaching from the air so nothing they could really do against something that. The only thing they can do is attack or block, but that water prison absorbs you right in.


What did kakashi mean when he said , Itachi, how bad has your eyesight gotten? i have a few theories but i was wondering what you guys thought.

Yeah... I noticed Itachi closed his eyes as soon as Kakashi lifted his forehead protector. Perhaps he thought Kakashi was going to use some gengutsu on Itachi or something.

But man. I could've sworn, Kakashi lifted it up last episode already!!!!! lol...

[Uzumaki]

Maybe Kakashi copied Itachi's technique last time, or part of his technique or something and then tried it back on Itachi, so Itachi quickly shut his eyes. I don't know but, I think Kakashi was staring straight at Itachi's face but we can't really tell as he just looks like he's looking at the 'camera'

maybe. :D

[Crash]

It was a little disappointing after what seemed to be a big build up to the fight in the last episode to have nothing really happen in this one. I will say that the whole segment involving Itachi's eyes was interesting and i'm quite curious to see how that develops. Though the conversation between them was vague, it would appear that the technique Itachi used on Kakashi last time damages his eyes. Since Kakashi asked "how bad has your eyesight gotten" it would appear that eventually over use of it could render them useless. It's an interesting twist, and now we know Itachi's powers have limits. Hopefully next week there will be some real fighting.

[Board of Command]

'Tis a terrible episode.

[DarthEnderX]

I really liked most of the episode. Neji and Tenten were awsome for the 10 seconds they were actually using new techniques. Naruto FINALLY did a one handed Rasengan!

Although he obviously looked in Itachi's eyes when he charged him so...r-tard.

Everytime they do that forgetful Gai gag it just killed the mood.

So far though, Kisame is being way cooler than Itachi.


What did kakashi mean when he said , Itachi, how bad has your eyesight gotten? i have a few theories but i was wondering what you guys thought.Haha, when I heard that line I thought maybe Itachi was going blind from using Mangekyou Sharingan too much.

[RyougaZell]

DE: How can you be so sure he looked at the eyes? He was watching below his neck... while preparing the Rasengan.

Kisame went up the cool factor. And whoever said Tenten, Lee and Neji were useless (can't remember the nick =P) and says it was lame how they got captured... I would like to see you changing direction while falling from a jump... remember Naruto had to use a Kage Bunshin to change direction during his fight with Kakashi.

And yes... even Kakashi has fallen to that technique, against Zabuza. And Kisame was his partner before.

Oh yeah... you guys noticed that Lee was standing ON the water? Hopefully this can stop the 'Lee has no chakra' discussion from last episode.

Overall good episode. Great when Tenten and Neji fought. Lee looked like always, and first new 'tech' gets destroyed in the first blow (his wood tonfas or whatever they were).

Sadly animation looked weird sometimes during the fight.

Preview looks awesome... water shark casted by water guy... LOL.

[itadakimasu]

What did kakashi mean when he said , Itachi, how bad has your eyesight gotten? i have a few theories but i was wondering what you guys thought.

this has been brought up in another thread before. As any person of intelligence would conclude, kakashi clearly knows the sharingan has a weakness in overuse and suggests that itachi's vision has taken a hit over his years of using the advanced sharingan. flame on!

anyhow, i wasn't able to watch last weeks ep and was going to watch it and then this one... but as soon as i saw kisame my eyes lit up and i had to watch. Very good episode... i cant wait until next week. GAI SENSEI! !! !!! I DID IT!!!!!! rawwwwwwwr

[Danad_corps]

First of all Kakashi's team are nubs for fighting every single goddamn battle looking at their opponents eyes. Anyone who has ever learned how to fight knows that (on most occasions) the best place to look is at the chest/midsection. If you think otherwise, you will (and should) lose all ur fights against someone who knows how to fight. I just can't believe they would say that.

As for the water binding tech, it was pretty lame to have 3 ppl caught in the same tech at the same time in the exact same way but remember that they aren't fighting against a normal person. This is probably one of the most elite-nin's they will face for a long time. Kakashi and Gai would get owned if they fought one-on-one with members of Akatsuki and Kakashi and Gai are far stronger and more adept at fighting than their respective pupils.

What i don't get at all is why hasn't Gai or even Lee removed their weights? They know this guy is S+ rank so why fight with a handicap?

Kakashi can't have mastered the moon tech b/c even though he is a copy-nin, you can't copy somthing that you don't have. Those tech's are only accessible through the mangekyou sharingan and kakashi only has a normal sharingan. While that is still bad-ass, its not as uber bad-ass as Itachi's. It could be that he can someone do something similar, but probably not nearly as powerful. Or it could just be a bluff. Kakashi is a copy-nin so copying this tech isn't ludicrious (esp when itachi doesn't know the extent of kakashi's ability) and seems almost reasonable. Since he has only implied that he can, Itachi's imagination can run with the idea and deter him in the upcoming fight.

[boilerph]

Kakashi and Gai would get owned if they fought one-on-one with members of Akatsuki .

I really think you are selling both of them short. While they might not win against a member in a one-on-one fight I think they would be far from getting owned. Kakashi was able to defeat Zabuza, who had assassinated a Kage, without too much effort at a point when he was much weaker than he is now. Even with the probable power differences of the Kage's it says a lot about Kakashi.

[DarthEnderX]

I'm with danad about Kakashi using any of Itachi's advanced Sharigan techs though. He can't cause he doesn't have the Mang.

[boilerph]

I'm with danad about Kakashi using any of Itachi's advanced Sharigan techs though. He can't cause he doesn't have the Mang.

We don't know for certain that he can't use the Mangekyou Sharingan. There must be various ways of obtaining it unless you are going to say that Sasuke can't obtain it without killing Naruto. It seems to me that the restrictions of Kakashi not being able to fully utilize the Sharingan have given way to him being able to fully utilize it but at a greater Chakra cost than an actual Uchiha.

[Yukimura]

Shippuden is forming a disturbing trend of the anime being much less exciting and suspenseful than the manga. When you read the action panels in the manga you have to fill in the blanks with your imagination, but what's being filled in by the anime is moving so slowly I can't imagine how anyone would have thought that this was what happend in the transitions between panels, let alone enjoyed it. That being said it wasn't that bad and a lot of interesting scenes happened inbetween all the lethargic action.

On another note, if you think about the conversation between Kakashi and Itachi when Kakashi asked him about his eyesight Itachi seemed somewhat shocked and confuesd, as if Kakashi shouldn't have known about that. Add that to the fact that Itachi didn't seem phased when Kakashi gave his rundown on how Tsukuyomi worked and it begs the question, why did Itachi seem surprised about Kakashi's knowledge of the eyesight, but not his knowledge about Tsukuyomi?

[Danad_corps]

ok so maybe they wouldnt get owned per-say. However, even if they were able to fight one-on-one and come out even, Kakashi and Gai are still in a losing situation. No matter how battle-hardened and powered-up the kids have gotten, they are no where near Gai's or Kakashi's strength and they don't have the necessary experience to handle themselves in such a situation. Having 3 others who are weaker, and less experienced, than yourself is definitely a hinderence in a fight (only ways i can see to counter it is to either attack hard and hope to have one of ur comrades see a weakness, or sacrifice someone). Now Gai and Kakashi have to fight as hard as they can AND make sure nothing bad happens to their respective teams. Already 3 of Gai's members are caught in the water-binding justu so that puts a time constraint and a rescue-mission constraint on his fight. Naruto's been caught in some genjustu and someone will have to snap him out of it (i don't remember him being able to "release" a genjustu - may be part of his growth we will see in the next ep tho). As much as Naruto's enthusiam is his best asset in this series, it would also be his greatest weakness if any of this were even semi-real. As many famous people of our time has said, "you gotta know when to quit."

Just for once i'd like to see someone die for being foolhardy. All this enthusiasm in anime has really gotten on my nerves lately. We need more shikamaru's (now HE knows when to quit!)

Anime trivia: what series did the name "inoshikocho" appear on before naruto (don't search for it a-holes! if u don't know then u don't know)? <--i only know of one series if u know another kudos to u!

[DarthEnderX]

We don't know for certain that he can't use the Mangekyou Sharingan. There must be various ways of obtaining it unless you are going to say that Sasuke can't obtain it without killing Naruto.That makes no sense. Why the hell would the super secret technique have several different ways of learning it?

Although, all we know is you have to kill your best friend. I still don't know WHY you have to do it. Do you need your best friends heart for some kind of ritual? Or is it somehow symbolic.

Anyway, I'm assuming that since Gai is still alive, Kakashi doesn't have MangShar.

[mage]

The pacing was very bad.. This should have been a double episode.

[GreatLimmick]

Worth it to see chibi-Itachi get clocked on the back of the head with a stick.

[ASSpirine]

That makes no sense. Why the hell would the super secret technique have several different ways of learning it?

Although, all we know is you have to kill your best friend. I still don't know WHY you have to do it. Do you need your best friends heart for some kind of ritual? Or is it somehow symbolic.

Anyway, I'm assuming that since Gai is still alive, Kakashi doesn't have MangShar.

Sasuke said he was going to obtain the power of Itachi in another way. Because he didn't want to end up like his brother.

Still wondering about the: How bad have your eyes gotten part... Quite interesting, I would have thought a bigger fight between Kisame and team Gai, and more conversation between Itachi and Kakashi. The Itachi part I've guessed, but the slow almost no fighting part of Kisame not. It was quite boring at times, especially the, who are you parts...

Please, someone make Gai remember :mad:

[Necromas]

What did kakashi mean when he said , Itachi, how bad has your eyesight gotten? i have a few theories but i was wondering what you guys thought.

I think it's pretty obvious he's implying that Itachi's eyesight is getting worse every time he uses the mangekyou sharingan. But how would Kakashi know that much about it?


On another note, if you think about the conversation between Kakashi and Itachi when Kakashi asked him about his eyesight Itachi seemed somewhat shocked and confuesd, as if Kakashi shouldn't have known about that. Add that to the fact that Itachi didn't seem phased when Kakashi gave his rundown on how Tsukuyomi worked and it begs the question, why did Itachi seem surprised about Kakashi's knowledge of the eyesight, but not his knowledge about Tsukuyomi?

Well, obviously it's been used before by Itachi (on Kakashi himself even, but I think he talked about Tsukuyomi before getting caught in it then) and whoever in the past has been able to use the mangekyou sharingan, so it's not a big surprise that someone like Kakashi would know about it. But the eyesight problem would be much harder to find out just from researching Itachi and the mangekyou because obviously it's a weakness that would be a closely guarded secret.

[ASSpirine]

I think it's pretty obvious he's implying that Itachi's eyesight is getting worse every time he uses the mangekyou sharingan. But how would Kakashi know that much about it?



Well, obviously it's been used before by Itachi (on Kakashi himself even, but I think he talked about Tsukuyomi before getting caught in it then) and whoever in the past has been able to use the mangekyou sharingan, so it's not a big surprise that someone like Kakashi would know about it. But the eyesight problem would be much harder to find out just from researching Itachi and the mangekyou because obviously it's a weakness that would be a closely guarded secret.


I don't think there's much to research about the Mangekyou, since it has only appeared on 2 (or 3) Uchiha's. Don't think there's a handbook written about it. The only other option would be self experience, what would mean... But that's impossible I thought, only an Uchiha body could do that. Or was it only an Uchiha body that was best suited for Sharingan, with the easy fatigue and all. Hope they'll clarify it soon.

On another note, anyone noticed Naruto didn't use any Kage Bunshins to do his Rasengan? Could he have finally mastered it like Jiraiya? It was about time.

[Kraco]

I must be in some utter minority in thinking he didn't speak of actual bad eyesight. In fact, the whole idea didn't occur to me before I read this thread. When watching the episode, I thought Kakashi was just reminding Itachi that he's not the only one with a sharingan and that it's Kakashi specialty to copy techniques. Referring, metaphorically, to eyesight would suit an Uchiha since their ultimate jutsus depend on special eyes.

But now after reading this thread maybe Itachi indeed is risking his fancy eyes every time he visits a week's worth of torture upon someone in a second.

[Psyke]

Shippuden is forming a disturbing trend of the anime being much less exciting and suspenseful than the manga. When you read the action panels in the manga you have to fill in the blanks with your imagination, but what's being filled in by the anime is moving so slowly I can't imagine how anyone would have thought that this was what happend in the transitions between panels, let alone enjoyed it. That being said it wasn't that bad and a lot of interesting scenes happened inbetween all the lethargic action.


I agree. I especially hated the way the jumped from one fight to the other, with no developments especially in the Kakashi vs Itachi fight. Like the Bleach, other than some of the added stuff, I thought the transition to anime could have been done better.

[UChessmaster]

Kakashi was able to defeat Zabuza, who had assassinated a Kage, without too much effort at a point when he was much weaker than he is now.

No he didn`t, zabuza failed at killing the mizukage

And i agree with what most people say... this was a very slow episode and not a lot really happened with the team 7 vs. itachi fight...

[DB_Hunter]

I think its pretty obvious that Kakashi has obtained the Mangekyou Sharingan. There is no way Itachi would act as shocked as he did if the weaknesses of the Mangekyou Sharingan were available on the Wikipedia of the Naruto world.

Besides, it seems to fit in also when Kakashi tried telling Naruto and Sakura near the beginning of Shippuden that he had learnt a cool new technique.

[gr3atfull]

Bad episode, but I loved the ending. I can't wait for the next episode! I want to see Naruto fight!!! And Gai is very very very slow....

[Assassin]

Besides, it seems to fit in also when Kakashi tried telling Naruto and Sakura near the beginning of Shippuden that he had learnt a cool new technique.

lol, the man nicknamed the "copy ninja" learned another technique in 3 years....big surprise :p

As for the whoel eyesight issue, at first i thought that kakashi had caught itachi in his own genjutsu (like kurnie did back when she faced itachi), and itachi hadn't realized it yet, hence the "how bad has your eyesight gotten" comment. But that doesn't seem to be teh case.

I dont think that it was in reference to the strain from using MS though. Remember, the sharingan is as feared as it is because of the power of insight it has (second only to the bayakugan)...so im thinking kakashi had made some sort of discovery about itachi, or perhaps itachi had failed to realize something...which is why kakashi commented on his eyesight getting bad.

[Assertn]

So some people are saying Itachi is going blind, and others are saying Kakashi copied MS?
This thread brings lols.

In other news....Neji's new jutsu is pretty elite

[StillAlive]

This episode was so-so as not much happened but it was still worth watching.

I'm wondering about people that speculate about things nobody can possibly know, e.g.: Mangekyou Sharingan can only be obtained by killing your best friend could be a false statement as only Itachi said so - in the 'real' world you won't believe just anybody, will you?
And the truth is: If this was a real battle, Tenten should have killed Kisame immediately - there is no way he could've escaped an under water explosion.

Comparing Bleach to Naruto is not the truth.
Kisame is 'cool'? - No way, just listening to him talking make my ears bleed...

[Jessper]

And the truth is: If this was a real battle, Tenten should have killed Kisame immediately - there is no way he could've escaped an under water explosion.


Everyone knows that an explosion underwater is at least 200 times more deadly than in air!

[Buffalobiian]

Does it look like Kisame and Itachi are still maintaining their holograms? Or they're just left there along with their chakra to sustain the sealing technique?

[itadakimasu]

Does it look like Kisame and Itachi are still maintaining their holograms? Or they're just left there along with their chakra to sustain the sealing technique?

when it showed them extracting the one tail from gaara, you it showed the outline of itachi and kisame.

i liked the effect they gave the leader of akatsuki...

really cant wait to see the next episode, gai sensei !

[Deadfire]

I watched about 5-10 minutes of this and it was enough.

Nothing interesting happened, nothing really to talk about, nothing really worth asking or explaining.

Maybe I should just stay with the manga. At least the thoeries and thoughts are alot more thought out in manga discussions. With the anime discussion some how out of nowhere people tied Kakashi getting a new jutsu + Itachi = Some how him getting Mangekyou Sharingan (MS is short for Multiple Sclerosis people. I'm very sure if a ninja had that they would not be a ninja)

[XanBcoo]

Maybe I should just stay with the manga. At least the thoeries and thoughts are alot more thought out in manga discussions. With the anime discussion some how out of nowhere people tied Kakashi getting a new jutsu + Itachi = Some how him getting Mangekyou Sharingan (MS is short for Multiple Sclerosis people. I'm very sure if a ninja had that they would not be a ninja)
I too am a little worried that manga readers are just trying to jump the gun on the hot topics of discussion that are going on right now with manga readers. I'm definitely not accusing anyone of spoiling, or being a manga-prophet, but those already aware of the major points of contention in the series obviously have the power to sway discussion.

Example: About three episodes ago, Chiyo attacked Kakashi at the end of the episode, calling him the White Fang. It didn't take long for someone to chime in "Well, based on Kakashi's facial expression and reaction, and the way Chiyo was screaming, the White Fang clearly is Kakashi's father." This prompted a slew of responses in which people analyzed this five seconds of unimportant dialog. It wasn't even relevant, yet.

Now I have no idea if whether or not Kakashi has Mangekyou Sharingan is a major debate among manga readers right now, but judging by the time it took people to jump to the "logical" conclusion that he must have it, I'm guessing that it is. It's not like anyone's spoiling anything, it just feels like people are continuing discussion that's been going on since 2 years ago, along with a bunch of insane theories. I suppose that's just the nature of the beast...

Watch it. - Assertnfailure

[DarthEnderX]

Everyone knows that an explosion underwater is at least 200 times more deadly than in air!Are you being sarcastic? Cause it is. You should look it up.

[Jessper]

Are you being sarcastic? Cause it is. You should look it up.

Must have still been asleep while posting that, meant shrapnel (which was the main focus of her big bomb). In which case they aren’t. Not that it matters, clearly he was able to block all of her attacks with out a second thought. His sword beats explosions.

Also, since all of her attacks were projectile attempting to make it work in the water is a whole lot easier said than done. Refraction of light and the reduced speed makes aiming at things underwater a totally different ball game.

Unless you purpose that she carries depth charges.

[Animeniax]

As usual, I disagree with most of you about the quality of this episode. I thought it was pretty good, with good action and some story progression.

I didn't like the switching between fights, especially since not much happened in the Itachi/Kakashi fight. I know it's his character, but impetuous Naruto gets old fast, and you just want him to shut up and sit still, considering that when he does act, he gets caught in a genjutsu so easily. Also, all 3 of Gai's pupils attacking the same way and getting caught in the same trap was hard to believe.

New techniques for Neji was cool. Gai taking Kisame's sword was beautifully done as well. Tenten warning Lee and Neji about the big ass wave coming straight for them was stupid, followed later by Lee warning Gai and Tenten about the big ass wave coming straight for them. I guess they didn't see it coming as soon as Lee. Chiyo having to explain 2 on 1 fighting to Naruto was freaking stupid.

The preview was hilarious, with the watershow announcer analogy. Sounds like a typical Japanese commercial with lots of hype and exclamation points. Plus, it showed Gai using nunchakus! Too cool.

[DB_Hunter]

I know this may be a contentious suggestion, but if people are trying to indirectly spoil by using manga knowledge to point anime watchers in the right direction then perhaps they should be prevented from posting in this forum?

Now I can't really judge the scale of this, and I others who are anime only watchers would be in the same boat as me. But the moderators in charge of the forums who do watch the manga need to consider this.

@Manga "Prophets": People, anime watchers don't read the manga because they enjoy understanding the story through the television series. We like to speculate about it here just as you guys do in the manga forums. The difference is you guys can genuinly speculate as there is no one to spoil it for you, whilst for us there is.

Just understand one point. Anime watchers are not so stupid as not to realise that the answers to our speculations probably already exist in the manga. There is nothing clever or fantastic about you coming in to this forum and giving the answers to people who don't want to know. If we wanted to know the answer that bad we would read the manga.

So stop getting a boner over spoiling and get a life.

[animus]

I know this may be a contentious suggestion, but if people are trying to indirectly spoil by using manga knowledge to point anime watchers in the right direction then perhaps they should be prevented from posting in this forum?

Now I can't really judge the scale of this, and I others who are anime only watchers would be in the same boat as me. But the moderators in charge of the forums who do watch the manga need to consider this.

@Manga "Prophets": People, anime watchers don't read the manga because they enjoy understanding the story through the television series. We like to speculate about it here just as you guys do in the manga forums. The difference is you guys can genuinly speculate as there is no one to spoil it for you, whilst for us there is.

Just understand one point. Anime watchers are not so stupid as not to realise that the answers to our speculations probably already exist in the manga. There is nothing clever or fantastic about you coming in to this forum and giving the answers to people who don't want to know. If we wanted to know the answer that bad we would read the manga.

So stop getting a boner over spoiling and get a life.

I think you're overreacting. No one was revelling in the fact of spoiling, spoils can slip due to excitement that one has the knowledge and are antsy to share. Me, being a manga reader, opted out from posting manga knowledge or to add speculation that didn't exist. But seriously, that last sentence was totally unnecessary and quite immature.

[Animeniax]

Dude, making unnecessary and immature statements are so much fun. You should try it sometime.

I have to agree with db_hunter, some people need to keep their manga-induced observations to themselves, as they are spoiling it for the anime-only fans, even if they don't intend to. The constant comparison between the anime and manga is also annoying. Sorry if the anime's elaboration of a scene doesn't measure up to your own when you read the manga. We don't care to hear about it though.

[?igma]

I'm starting to get quite sad with Naruto.

Instead of the intellectual progress Naruto makes ( or should be making ), smarter in fights, clever tactics, understanding of the enemy, they made him some power animal that is there like some explosive Hulk.

However, what seperates the Hulk from Naruto, is that the Hulk at least, had one smart form. Naruto, is just dumb and when I say dumb, I mean retarded kind of dumb. Not to mention that the fightscenes are also all idiotically dumb! It's as if they all lost the capability to think themselves. No wai ? I shouldnt look into someones eyes when they got all these weird red and black thingies in them even though I knew this like, from episode 5 ? you kidding me ? Damn I must be really....riiiighttttttt

[bagandscalpel]

However, what seperates the Hulk from Naruto, is that the Hulk at least, had one smart form. Naruto, is just dumb and when I say dumb, I mean retarded kind of dumb. Not to mention that the fightscenes are also all idiotically dumb! It's as if they all lost the capability to think themselves. No wai ? I shouldnt look into someones eyes when they got all these weird red and black thingies in them even though I knew this like, from episode 5 ? you kidding me ? Damn I must be really....riiiighttttttt
If it's any consolation, does the semblance of furious animal instinct while under Kyuubi influence count?

[redcat]

one thing I dont understand is how they can look at itachi from so far away and look at him from his chin down. do they not have any peripheral vision?


spoils can slip due to excitement that one has the knowledge and are antsy to share.
if you have this problem seriously gtfo

[masamuneehs]

i didn't think it was horrible, but probably should have been better...

I think it's clear Kakashi is hinting at Mangekyou Sharingan causing blindness over time. I watched Rasengan Fansubs this time, and the way they subbed it made it quite clear that Itachi might be losing his eyesight by employing that jutsu. Also, Itachi's surprise comes from Kakashi figuring this out, since it seems like only someone who has obtained Mangekyou and felt the adverse effects would know this (or was told)

The stuff with Gai was stupid and annoying. Tenten has clearly fallen behind the rest of her group, she always looked very scared and unsure whenever Kisame attacked. I agree that the three of them getting trapped in the Water Prison tech was quite lame. They had just seen that Kisame could make a Water Clone, so they should be on the look out for him having a Bunshin Clone jutsu as well...

I agree about the peripheral vision thing, but I don't think that accidentally seeing his eyes would do it. I think your brain would have to register it (Itachi using his Tsukyomi (sp) jutsu on the person) consciously, or otherwise how can the Genjutsu take effect?

the cutting between the scenes is also getting on my nerves. like i said, this episode is not terrible imo, especially since I don't have inflated expectations from reading the manga, but it could have been better.

oh, and a friendly reminder. if you get caught in the heat of the moment and spoil, i may just get caught up in the heat of the moment and ban you. fair?

[JaySee]

I know this may be a contentious suggestion, but if people are trying to indirectly spoil by using manga knowledge to point anime watchers in the right direction then perhaps they should be prevented from posting in this forum?

Now I can't really judge the scale of this, and I others who are anime only watchers would be in the same boat as me. But the moderators in charge of the forums who do watch the manga need to consider this.

@Manga "Prophets": People, anime watchers don't read the manga because they enjoy understanding the story through the television series. We like to speculate about it here just as you guys do in the manga forums. The difference is you guys can genuinly speculate as there is no one to spoil it for you, whilst for us there is.

Just understand one point. Anime watchers are not so stupid as not to realise that the answers to our speculations probably already exist in the manga. There is nothing clever or fantastic about you coming in to this forum and giving the answers to people who don't want to know. If we wanted to know the answer that bad we would read the manga.

So stop getting a boner over spoiling and get a life.

I said this in a much shorter form a while back. I found it odd known manga readers were "speculating" future episodes. I got a response like "We're just repeating what we thought back then in the manga or what we would've thought if we didn't know." :confused: :rolleyes:

Confirming or denying anything as spoiler/prophecy is spoiler/prophecy in itself, nub - Assertnfailure

Did I point to anything specific? NOPE! "Nub!" It's quite obvious who the spoilers are as their so-called "prophecies" seem to continually come true. Any idiot could figure it out. :rolleyes:

However, pointing out the anime/manga differences I think are important. As a anime-only watcher of bleach (because I think it sucks, but entertains me somewhat until Naruto comes out) and a manga reader of Naruto, a lot of things are censored and not fully explained in the Anime that should be pointed out. Censorship I can understand, but why take out details? Isn't the anime supposed to flesh out the manga? Don't they need to delay catching up to the manga as much as possible? :mad: It's especially important to point out the filler crap added in.

[Animeniax]

I'm starting to get quite sad with Naruto.

Instead of the intellectual progress Naruto makes ( or should be making ), smarter in fights, clever tactics, understanding of the enemy, they made him some power animal that is there like some explosive Hulk.

However, what seperates the Hulk from Naruto, is that the Hulk at least, had one smart form. Naruto, is just dumb and when I say dumb, I mean retarded kind of dumb.
I guess one thing I want to hear from the manga readers is, is Naruto this dumb in the manga? To be fair, he grew up without parents and few friends, so he's bound to be dumb. But when a hero is that obnoxious, it's hard to root for him. Is this just a fault of the anime writers, or Kishimoto's characterization of Naruto?


However, pointing out the anime/manga differences I think are important. I don't agree at all. I'm here to discuss what happened in the anime episode I just watched, not the differences between the anime and the manga. If I wanted to know the differences, I'd go read the manga. I also could care less if something is in the anime that wasn't in the manga. After all, a 25 minute anime will contain material not included in the 3 issues of 18 page manga. If I cared that much about Kishimoto's "vision" of the Naruto world, I'd go read the manga.

[DB_Hunter]

Regarding manga readers: There are some manga readers who can keep things to themselves. Its sad that a few rotten apples have to spoil it for others. I just think people who go on both manga and anime forums need to be regulated carefully. I don't know if its just me, but it seems that before the Naruto series hit the fillers, we didn't have this problem on the forums. We could have just picked up the idiots with the fillers.

The Episode:

I would agree with people that Naruto is tending too much towards DBZ style fighting. As much as I love DBZ style fighting, it doesn't suit Naruto. Bleach is better suited for that sort of thing.

I found it to be so stupid when Naruto said to Itachi that he isn't the same as he used to be, when Kakashi made a similar comment. I mean Kakashi was already a bad ass jounin, and even now he isn't being arrogant and saying he can take on Itachi by himself. I think Itachi should just annihilate Naruto for the principle of it all. No one, even the hero of the series, should be allowed to get away with such stupidiy.

[Animeniax]

Reading sux. Books are from the devil and TV is twice as fast.

[JaySee]

Reading sux. Books are from the devil and TV is twice as fast.
Actually the Manga is much faster. Unless you read at the kindergarten level. We're talking about a comic book here, not a novel.

[Terracosmo]

Why is everybody bitching? Nothing wrong with this episode. Usual Naruto pacing. People should be used to it by now.


Lee's comment about Gai's insight = best line ever


What's with the ever present DBZ comparisons? "DBZ fighting"?

When somebody says DBZ fighting I imagine flying, energy attacks that blows up half the planet and random lightspeed punching flurries.

Can't find any of that here. Maybe I'm not watching the same show as the rest of you.

[Assassin]

i think they're referring to the dbz style super mega stare-down! where you try to make your opponents head explode by looking at him really hard.

[?igma]

i think they're referring to the dbz style super mega stare-down! where you try to make your opponents head explode by looking at him really hard.

Yes, the tea-party fights, while they do that, the camera slowly moves to two mating rabbits and once theyre done, camera zooms back to the "fight", they finished their tea and are now explaining their social problems. 30 MINUTES LONG :E

[XanBcoo]

Man, the tiny bit of Itachi action in this episode completely renewed my respect for the guy. All you gotta do is look at the guy, and he'll fuck your shit up without using any overt or obvious movements.


However, pointing out the anime/manga differences I think are important. As a anime-only watcher of bleach (because I think it sucks, but entertains me somewhat until Naruto comes out) and a manga reader of Naruto, a lot of things are censored and not fully explained in the Anime that should be pointed out. Censorship I can understand, but why take out details? Isn't the anime supposed to flesh out the manga? Don't they need to delay catching up to the manga as much as possible? :mad: It's especially important to point out the filler crap added in.
Totally agree with JaySee in this respect. It's not "necessary" to know how the manga did things differently, but it's definitely much more enjoyable to me having that extra knowledge.

For example, I think there was a part in the Sasuke/Naruto fight in episode 133, in which the anime left out the "shadow" of Naruto's moves that the manga had (as someone pointed out). Being aware of this gave me a much better understanding of how the sharingan worked. I don't know about everyone else, but I enjoy those little tidbits.


Also, Itachi's surprise comes from Kakashi figuring this out, since it seems like only someone who has obtained Mangekyou and felt the adverse effects would know this (or was told)
Kakashi deduces that Mangekyou Sharingan is detrimental to Itachi's sight because of how Itachi became fatigued and retreated after using it. Kakashi says this himself. It then shows Kisame saying out loud that it's dangerous for Itachi to use the Sharingan too much. I think that's how he figured it out, dudes...

[DB_Hunter]

Nope, I don't agree Kakashi figured it out by observation and by what Kisame said. Itachi's own words and reactions give it away. He acts shocked, and says "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..." when Kakashi asks how bad his eyesight has become. This isn't consistent with Itachi's responses to Kakashi's previous deductions about the Mangekyou Sharingan. If you look at how that is shown in the anime as well, Itachi looks far more hostile towards Kakashi after that one remark than at any other time. This would seem to indicate that he is feeling threatned, or that he now knows he is in for a proper fight.

[XanBcoo]

Nope, I don't agree Kakashi figured it out by observation and by what Kisame said. Itachi's own words and reactions give it away. He acts shocked, and says "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..." when Kakashi asks how bad his eyesight has become. This isn't consistent with Itachi's responses to Kakashi's previous deductions about the Mangekyou Sharingan. If you look at how that is shown in the anime as well, Itachi looks far more hostile towards Kakashi after that one remark than at any other time. This would seem to indicate that he is feeling threatned, or that he now knows he is in for a proper fight.
That's a huge leap in logic, even for Itachi. It's ridiculous.

*Kakashi finishes deducing how the Mangekyou Sharingan works based on evidence from past fights*
*Itachi congratulates Kakashi on his intellectual prowess*
Kakashi says: "How bad has your eyesight gotten?"
*Itachi suddenly assumes Kakashi has Mangekyou Sharingan*

Please tell me your recognize what I'm trying to say here...Viewer speculation aside, even inside the Naruto universe it's pretty illogical that Itachi would assume Kakashi had Mangekyou, just on that one seemingly irrelevant comment.

My conclusion on why Itachi was surprised is just as you said, he's realized he's been threatened because Kakashi has him figured out.

[Animeniax]

I'm disappointed at this apparent weakness with the mangekou sharingan. Itachi was a total badass with an ultimate weapon. Now we find out he has limiters and can only fire once or twice before the barrel melts. Kinda lame.


Actually the Manga is much faster. Unless you read at the kindergarten level. We're talking about a comic book here, not a novel. Yeah, that's a quote from ATHF.

[itadakimasu]

XanBcoo: from that dialogue between itachi and kakashi, the only thing i pulled from it is that kakashi is suggesting that itachi's eye seight has gone bad from his repeated use of the sharingan.



Spoiler of the century !!!! naruto can only get better !!!!!!!!!!! keep watching!!!!

that is... unless they begin fillers again.

[DB_Hunter]

@XanBcoo: Because deteriorating eyesight is something only a Mangekyou user must experience. If every Sharingan user faced that problem they would be a really pathetic clan, as they would all be blind after using the Sharingan a few times!

Anyway, its never been mentioned before that normal Sharingan users have their eyes damaged which means it must be something unique to a Mangekyou user. And I doubt Kakashi just heard it from someone or read a book, as there have only been like 3 users of the Mangekyou Sharingan. Information must certainly be scarce on it.

Therefore, the only way he could possible know is if has experienced the problem himself. The ONLY way he could know this without having the Mangekyou Sharingan is if a Mangekyou user told him, which I doubt.

[animus]

Is it me, or does Itachi ALWAYS have his sharingan on. The silhouettes with them putting chakra into extracting the Bijuu from Gaara, show him with Sharingan too. Maybe, it's just like a plot device to allow people to recognize his silhouette. But, man he's got it on like all the time so he must have some insane amount of chakra.

[XanBcoo]

@bbaucom - Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.


@XanBcoo: Because deteriorating eyesight is something only a Mangekyou user must experience. If every Sharingan user faced that problem they would be a really pathetic clan, as they would all be blind after using the Sharingan a few times!

I...don't think you got my point. I don't see what this reply has to do with what I said. Kakashi's question was addressed to Itachi about Itachi's eyesight. Why anyone would pull from that that Kakashi has experience with deteriorating eyesight himself is beyond me.

Perhaps if he had said something along the lines of: "Has your eyesight gotten as bad as mine?" or "I know how bad your eyesight must have gotten." then I'd agree. But he was asking a question about the state of Itachi's eyes after explaining how he figured out they were being strained. The only possible interpretation of that is a taunt.

It's like me saying "Doctor's agree that wearing glasses improves poor vision. Coincidentally, your friend also said it seemed your eyesight is improving. Is your eyesight really improving?"

and you assuming: "XanBcoo wears glasses."


And I doubt Kakashi just heard it from someone or read a book, as there have only been like 3 users of the Mangekyou Sharingan. Information must certainly be scarce on it.
Kakashi has had plenty of experience with it. It's been used on him before, and he's been able to deduce the effects of MS on the user as a result of Itachi's actions. He also remembers what Kisame (who works alongside Itachi and knows about MS's effects) said. That's all he needed, and that's not just me saying that. Itachi even praises him for figuring this out. There is no lack of information here. As always, the anime makes the simplest of concepts irritatingly clear.

[animus]

I do believe it's easy to deduce that he might have a Mang Sharingan. The direct quote from DB's subs is "Itachi, how bad has your eyesight gotten?". I think it's one of those questions that you use in comparison to yourself. To emphasize my point the question could possibly be asked this way, Itachi how bad has YOUR eyesight gotten? You say it's a taunt, but do you really think Itachi would really have a shocked reaction like he did to a taunt? Kakashi already stated to Itachi that he knew the technique had dangers to the eyes from use, and like you said Itachi even praises him for it. So it's an extremely logical situation to assume Kakashi might have it just from the next statement and Itachi's reaction.

[UChessmaster]

I do believe it's easy to deduce that he might have a Mang Sharingan. The direct quote from DB's subs is "Itachi, how bad has your eyesight gotten?". I think it's one of those questions that you use in comparison to yourself. To emphasize my point the question could possibly be asked this way, Itachi how bad has YOUR eyesight gotten? You say it's a taunt, but do you really think Itachi would really have a shocked reaction like he did to a taunt? Kakashi already stated to Itachi that he knew the technique had dangers to the eyes from use, and like you said Itachi even praises him for it. So it's an extremely logical situation to assume Kakashi might have it just from the next statement and Itachi's reaction.

It can`t be a comparison, because in order to compare you need two "subjects" to compare, if he said something like... is your eyesight as bad as mine? then it will be completely plausible, kakashi deducted that itachi can`t use mangekyou a lot, because

A) Itachi was tired the first time he used it

B) They even showed a flash of Kisame saying out loud how he shouldn`t be using it or whatever (this one should be enough giveaway...)

Kakashi: After using that technique, you were very fatigued and retreated inmediately

(Flashback) Kisame: Itachi-san, it`s dangerous for you to use your eyes too much

Kakashi: Besides using a large amount of chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes right itachi?

I`m focusing in what Kisame said and second part of Kakashi`s last sentence... they basically sayd the same, i don`t see something that needs to be overanalyzed or anything, maybe i`m missing something.

[XanBcoo]

Actually, animus does have a point, I'll admit. If Kakashi was indeed emphasizing "your" in that sentence, it does slightly change the way Itachi could have inferred it.

Even so, that whole exchange still doesn't ring true for me.

[Yukimura]

This is a good example of a situation where something may have been lost in translation too. Does anyone know if there was anything about the way Kakashi actually worded the statement that might have put extra emphasis somewhere meaningful?

Otherwise the evidence is just circumstantial. It's like Light in Death Note, there are lots of things about him that would make perfect sense if he was Kira, but none of it proves he is. In the same way Kakashi's statement and Itachi's reaction would make sense if Kakashi had Mangekyou, but it obviously doesn't prove anything since there are also other explanations.

On the flip side until Kakashi produces a new jutsu that isn't Mangekyou it'll impossible to dispell the suspicion.

[DarthEnderX]

I like UChessMaster's explanation best. All the things Kisame said last time give Kakashi the info he needed to come to the conclusion he did.

I actually thought after he said it that Itachi WAS just kinding of staring impassively. I started to wonder if he wasn't actually looking at anyone before and they were too far away to see. :p

[The Heretic Azazel]

Does Kisame's VA have lisp?

Horrible.

[masamuneehs]

This is a good example of a situation where something may have been lost in translation too. Does anyone know if there was anything about the way Kakashi actually worded the statement that might have put extra emphasis somewhere meaningful

Dattebayo translated it like this:
Kakashi (after flashback of Kisame and Itachi in Konoha): "Besides using a large amount of chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes. Right, Itachi?"
Itachi: "An impressive analysis, for having only seen it once"
Kakashi: "Itachi, how bad has your eyesight become?"

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4606/itachishockedhg1.jpg
clearly he is shocked/surprised to hear this...
and, after a closeup shot of Kakashi's eyes we get
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5880/blindspotcv5.jpg
and you'll notice the bottom right hand corner of the screen, where there's obviously a "blind spot" added in. This is obviously on purpose, also comes immediately after they focus on Kakashi's Sharingan eye, and I thought of this as a POV shot from Kakashi's POV, and immediately followed by Itachi saying:

"Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..."

That shot is also done earlier, with the blind spot intact, before Kakashi removes his eye protector.

Rasengan Fansubs translated the same exchange with almost the exact same translation.

[XanBcoo]

I like UChessMaster's explanation best. All the things Kisame said last time give Kakashi the info he needed to come to the conclusion he did.
Dude, that was totally my explanation :mad:.

@Masa: I assume by "blind spot" you mean that dark corner on the screen?

Huh...

So assuming Kakashi has somehow developed Mangekyou, I wonder how he got it. Which one of his buddies has he offed?

[DB_Hunter]

@Masa: I don't think that the pic is showing a blind spot. Even if Kakshi's Sharingan eye has deteriorated slightly, he still has his other eye which should be able see normally.

@XanBcoo:


I...don't think you got my point. I don't see what this reply has to do with what I said. Kakashi's question was addressed to Itachi about Itachi's eyesight. Why anyone would pull from that that Kakashi has experience with deteriorating eyesight himself is beyond me.

Its simple... it't not something thats been mentioned for other Sharingan users, so it doesn't apply to them. Therefore if Kakashi still only has the normal Sharingan, he can't possibly know about this side effect.

IMO, the setting of the question and the tone of Kakashi's voice (if I may go so far to say), suggests this is an entirely rhetorical question. He knows Itachi's eyesight has gotten worse, and if my suspicion on normal Sharingan users not having worsening eyesight is correct, he could only know what caused it if he has now obtained the Mangekyou Sharingan, as it only happens to Mangekyou users. It's all just Kakashi's cool way of indirectly telling Itachi he now also has the Mangekyou Sharingan.

If this isn't enough, Itachi's next statement is the final proof: "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..."

Couldn't have what? Joined MENSA because you're so smart by figuring all this out? He has just finished praising Kakashi all the way through the conversation for his insight, and now he decides to get shocked? I don't buy that.


Kakashi has had plenty of experience with it. It's been used on him before, and he's been able to deduce the effects of MS on the user as a result of Itachi's actions.

No, he doesn't. Being subjected to an attack once is not plenty of experience. Certainly not for deducing intangible weaknesses of an attack.


He also remembers what Kisame (who works alongside Itachi and knows about MS's effects) said.

Kisame told Itachi not to use his eyes too much because it is dangerous for him, not necessarily his eyes alone. Obviously if Itachi drains all his chakra by using the Mangekyou he is going to collapse. I seriously doubt Itachi would have revealed such a severe weakness of one his main attacking options to Kisame. They are in Akatsuki, not a friendly after school club. My money is on Kisame simply telling Itachi not to drain all his chakra at once.

[UChessmaster]

I still don`t beleive that Kakashi deducted mang stresses itachi`s eyes because Kakashi himself has Mang., in fact even IF Kakashi has mang. it proves nothing, since Kakashi is not an actuall Uchiha the effects of a Normal sharingan makes him go uncounscious for a week after THREE techniques(see zabuza arc) , i supose if he uses something like mang he will be out for a month... that doesn`t mean itachi goes down after 3 tehcniques nor that he is down after 1 mang.

Again, if we decide that Kakashi knows about mang weak point because he has it himself, we`ll have to neglet some important parts of the whole discuccion, i emphasis again in the kisame flashback, what`s the point of it in the first place then?

[animus]

I still don`t beleive that Kakashi deducted mang stresses itachi`s eyes because Kakashi himself has Mang., in fact even IF Kakashi has mang. it proves nothing, since Kakashi is not an actuall Uchiha the effects of a Normal sharingan makes him go uncounscious for a week after THREE techniques(see zabuza arc) , i supose if he uses something like mang he will be out for a month... that doesn`t mean itachi goes down after 3 tehcniques nor that he is down after 1 mang.

Again, if we decide that Kakashi knows about mang weak point because he has it himself, we`ll have to neglet some important parts of the whole discuccion, i emphasis again in the kisame flashback, what`s the point of it in the first place then?

He didn't need to deduce that fact by himself, he was there when Kisame told Itachi not to use it to much because it strains/weakens his eyes. He then states it again to Itachi, and Itachi praises him for that analysis with his same stoic, cold glare. But that's not the issue here, the issue is Kakashi's next statement of "Itachi, how bad has your eyesight become?" clearly induced a state of surprise and shock and that's evident by Itachi's statement of "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..." and his facial expression and a slight gasp. Why do you think he had such a reaction? Because he was afraid Kakashi would find out that he had used it continuously and was possibly near blindness? No, I don't think he would have a reaction like that to something so trivial. Again, I point to Itachi's statement, people are denying the fact that this statement has A LOT of meaning.

[boilerph]

Ok now the thread is going from one broad leap to Kakashi having Mangekyou to everyone putting words in Kisame's mouth. Kisame never said that Itachi shouldn't use it because it strains his eyes. He just warned him against using it too much, we have seen that same warning given to people throughout this show and it was because of Chakra consumption i.e. Kakashi telling Sasuke he could only use the Chidoro twice. Making the leap that Kakashi would hear this and decide on the move damaging eyesight permanently is crazy. There's no precedent for that kind of warning meaning that anywhere else in the show. The closest thing was Lee's Lotus use back in the day and that was still not permanent damage. They show the flashback to what Kisame said as proof of Kakashi's statement about the Chakra requirements of the move.


Kakashi knowing about the eyesight deterioration is a self-contained statement that we can do nothing but speculate about. Kakashi having the Magekyou is one explanation however the other possibility, that noone has mentioned, is Kakashi found the hidden Uchiha scroll that explains the technique. I don't remember them showing Sasuke taking it with him or destroying it so it was probably still right there waiting to be found.

[RyougaZell]

Dattebayo translated it like this:
Kakashi (after flashback of Kisame and Itachi in Konoha): "Besides using a large amount of chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes. Right, Itachi?"
Itachi: "An impressive analysis, for having only seen it once"
Kakashi: "Itachi, how bad has your eyesight become?"

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4606/itachishockedhg1.jpg
clearly he is shocked/surprised to hear this...
and, after a closeup shot of Kakashi's eyes we get
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/5880/blindspotcv5.jpg
and you'll notice the bottom right hand corner of the screen, where there's obviously a "blind spot" added in. This is obviously on purpose, also comes immediately after they focus on Kakashi's Sharingan eye, and I thought of this as a POV shot from Kakashi's POV, and immediately followed by Itachi saying:

"Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..."

That shot is also done earlier, with the blind spot intact, before Kakashi removes his eye protector.

Rasengan Fansubs translated the same exchange with almost the exact same translation.

Hey Masa...
but... Kakashi's sharingan is on his left... so if that is his pov... then the blind spot you mention should be on the left of the screen. The darkened spot you mention here belongs to Kakashi's normal eye.

[animus]

Ok now the thread is going from one broad leap to Kakashi having Mangekyou to everyone putting words in Kisame's mouth. Kisame never said that Itachi shouldn't use it because it strains his eyes. He just warned him against using it too much, we have seen that same warning given to people throughout this show and it was because of Chakra consumption i.e. Kakashi telling Sasuke he could only use the Chidoro twice. Making the leap that Kakashi would hear this and decide on the move damaging eyesight permanently is crazy. There's no precedent for that kind of warning meaning that anywhere else in the show. The closest thing was Lee's Lotus use back in the day and that was still not permanent damage. They show the flashback to what Kisame said as proof of Kakashi's statement about the Chakra requirements of the move.


Kakashi knowing about the eyesight deterioration is a self-contained statement that we can do nothing but speculate about. Kakashi having the Magekyou is one explanation however the other possibility, that noone has mentioned, is Kakashi found the hidden Uchiha scroll that explains the technique. I don't remember them showing Sasuke taking it with him or destroying it so it was probably still right there waiting to be found.

Maybe you should rewatch the episode before you make that statement. This is Kisame's exact quote from DB's translation, "Itachi-san, it's dangerous for you to use your eyes too much." Kakashi himself then said, "Besides using a large amount of Chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes. Right, Itachi?" And Itachi's answer to that was "An impressive analysis for only having it seen once." Meaning he is not only praising Kakashi, but affirming to the fact that it does in fact damage the eyes. Why do you think that flashback was even included? Because it led up to Kakashi's explanation of the dangers of the Mang Sharingan. Or do you think the huge risk to his eyes is getting teary eyed whenever you look at the sun? Sure, Kisame's words were not something as clearcut as "They damage your eyes." but when you take it in context with Kakashi's statements they compliment eachother.

[boilerph]

Maybe you should rewatch the episode before you make that statement. This is Kisame's exact quote from DB's translation, "Itachi-san, it's dangerous for you to use your eyes too much." Kakashi himself then said, "Besides using a large amount of Chakra, using that technique poses a huge risk to your eyes. Right, Itachi?" And Itachi's answer to that was "An impressive analysis for only having it seen once." Meaning he is not only praising Kakashi, but affirming to the fact that it does in fact damage the eyes. Why do you think that flashback was even included? Because it led up to Kakashi's explanation of the dangers of the Mang Sharingan. Or do you think the huge risk to his eyes is getting teary eyed whenever you look at the sun? Sure, Kisame's words were not something as clearcut as "They damage your eyes." but when you take it in context with Kakashi's statements they compliment eachother.


Ok but you are still combining Kakashi and Kisame's statement into one. The point I was making is there is no way that Kakashi is going to infer permanent eye damage from "It's dangerous to use your eyes too much." That same warning has been given many times to many different characters and it was always in regards to chakra usage. There is no precedent set for Kakashi hearing that and thinking eye damage. In general, we interpret what we hear based on past experiences and thus Kakashi would just interpret that as a warning about the chakra strain of the technique.

That fact that Kakashi uses the word "besides" is implying that on top of the chakra requirements Kakashi had made an extra insight into the dangers of the technique. I still think finding the scroll is the most plausible solution.

[Assertn]

I kinda assumed Kakashi's "how bad has your eyesight become" question was metaphorical, as a way to reveal that Itachi has neglected to notice something.

All of your points revolve around the assumption that he's saying the statement literally.

[animus]

Ok but you are still combining Kakashi and Kisame's statement into one. The point I was making is there is no way that Kakashi is going to infer permanent eye damage from "It's dangerous to use your eyes too much." That same warning has been given many times to many different characters and it was always in regards to chakra usage. There is no precedent set for Kakashi hearing that and thinking eye damage. In general, we interpret what we hear based on past experiences and thus Kakashi would just interpret that as a warning about the chakra strain of the technique.

That fact that Kakashi uses the word "besides" is implying that on top of the chakra requirements Kakashi had made an extra insight into the dangers of the technique. I still think finding the scroll is the most plausible solution.

They're Akatsuki members, why would Kisame give a warning as something so trivial as Chakra usage to an experienced Sharingan user. Mangekyou Sharingan is not always used, and Kisame just said it's dangerous. If Kisame was worried about chakra usage as a problem, he'd have told Itachi to not have Sharingan on constantly. Cause if you look throughout the series, there's hardly a time when Itachi doesn't have them on. Again, like in an earlier post of mine, people are disregarding Itachi's next statement of "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..." and his shocked reaction to Kakashi's statement of how bad has his eye sight gotten.

[boilerph]

They're Akatsuki members, why would Kisame give a warning as something so trivial as Chakra usage to an experienced Sharingan user. Mangekyou Sharingan is not always used, and Kisame just said it's dangerous. If Kisame was worried about chakra usage as a problem, he'd have told Itachi to not have Sharingan on constantly. Cause if you look throughout the series, there's hardly a time when Itachi doesn't have them on. Again, like in an earlier post of mine, people are disregarding Itachi's next statement of "Kakashi-san, you couldn't have..." and his shocked reaction to Kakashi's statement of how bad has his eye sight gotten.

You have a good point, but along those same lines I can't imagine a guy who keeps his Sharingan on at all times is going to sit around the campfire and tell the other Akatsuki members the weakness of his trump card power. These guys are all power-hungry murderers and you know they have to all have plans for how to take out the other members if it ever came down to it. I honestly think that Kisame's statement to Itachi was meant to calm him down and keep him from getting too wrapped up in the fight. They weren't in Konoha to fight and Kisame might have been afraid of Itachi's "battle-lust" so to speak.

edit


I kinda assumed Kakashi's "how bad has your eyesight become" question was metaphorical, as a way to reveal that Itachi has neglected to notice something.

All of your points revolve around the assumption that he's saying the statement literally.

I hadn't really thought of it this way and it would explain Itachi's shocked look. Kakashi has been shown many times to be an expert at using words to get to his opponenet and that would be a good way of implying some sort of trump card for Kakashi's side.


oops sorry for double post

It's fine. Consider this your freebie, try to use the Edit button in the future and, as always, read your Gotwoot Bible (http://forums.gotwoot.net/forumdisplay.php?f=28)
masa

[DeathscytheVII]

I wonder just how many people in this 'how bad is your eyesight' discussion are reading the manga ;)

Meh, when he said that. I just think kakashi is pointing out an obvious side effect of using mangekyou sharingan that he found out from his own knowledge of sharingan. Whether he has it or not its fun to speculate but I'll wait and see. Besides, isn't kakashi's best friend dead?

[GreatLimmick]

Is it me, or does Itachi ALWAYS have his sharingan on. The silhouettes with them putting chakra into extracting the Bijuu from Gaara, show him with Sharingan too. Maybe, it's just like a plot device to allow people to recognize his silhouette. But, man he's got it on like all the time so he must have some insane amount of chakra.
And maybe that's how Kakashi knows Itachi's eyesight is deteriorating? After all, Kakashi's Sharingan is always on as well. (Sure, he keeps that eye closed and covered most of the time, but it's still on.

Of course, this begs the question of just how much Kakashi knows about the Sharingan, period, as well as how he learned it. (Trial and error? Classified Uchiha documents? Special training from the Uchiha clan?)

[redcat]

one thing I dont understand is how they can look at itachi from so far away and look at him from his chin down. do they not have any peripheral vision?
actually i take this back. i just noticed at 1:49 kakashi says "Everyone! Don't look directly into his eyes, or you're finished!"

[Idealistic]

And maybe that's how Kakashi knows Itachi's eyesight is deteriorating? After all, Kakashi's Sharingan is always on as well. (Sure, he keeps that eye closed and covered most of the time, but it's still on.


it's deteriorating from the usage of MS, not the normal sharingan.

maybe he has to keep it on all the time because his eye sight has gotten so bad from the use of the MS... otherwise he'd be a blind mofo.

[Deadfire]

it's deteriorating from the usage of MS, not the normal sharingan.

maybe he has to keep it on all the time because his eye sight has gotten so bad from the use of the MS... otherwise he'd be a blind mofo.

Because Multiple Sclerosis does that....The brain of a person with MS often responds less actively to stimulation of the optic nerve and sensory nerves.

[Idealistic]

Because Multiple Sclerosis does that....The brain of a person with MS often responds less actively to stimulation of the optic nerve and sensory nerves.

i think the first time you made that joke it was funny, but after a few times... it just gets old.

not to mention you can't USE multiple sclerosis.

[Deadfire]

i think the first time you made that joke it was funny, but after a few times... it just gets old.

not to mention you can't USE multiple sclerosis.

I would think that you would get I'm not joking and that you should figure out a new way to shorten it down.

[XanBcoo]

I see nothing wrong with "MS" being used as a shorthand for Mangekyou...

...DF.

[Deadfire]

I see nothing wrong with "MS" being used as a shorthand for Mangekyou...

...DF.

When you know a person that has it you will understand. It reminds those that either have it or know someone that has it is in pain.

it would be unfair to ask them to look past their emotions so you can shorthand two words

[animus]

Because him shortening two words into abbreviations which happen to have a bad connotation in your opinion means he has to cater it so it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings on an internet forum?

[RyougaZell]

Im with Deadfire.
MS will always be Multiple Sclerosis...
Everytime I read 'Itachi has MS' I think: so? leave the pure bastard alone with his problems...
Seriously... are you people so damn lazy you can't write Mangekyou Sharingan?

Will you next say the 'U' clan was killed by 'UI' when he gained his superior 'S'???

[animus]

I play WoW, and when I see MS, I always think Mortal Strike. Does that make me an asshole that I don't think about Multiple Sclerosis when I see that abbrevation? I sure as hell don't think so. Is multiple sclerosis a bad thing? Yeah, it is but I wouldn't go and correlate it with how someone else abbreviates their anime terms, however bad connotation it has. If someone said his name was Adolf, or Hitler you'd think about Adolf Hitler but I'm sure most of you wouldn't go up to a person named Adolf, and say "I'm Jewish, and your name given to you at birth insults me as well as many other people at the sound of your name, please change it right this instant."

[Idealistic]

When you know a person that has it you will understand. It reminds those that either have it or know someone that has it is in pain.

it would be unfair to ask them to look past their emotions so you can shorthand two words

If you want people to stop using MS as an abbreviation, maybe you should have implied it a bit more politely rather than trying to be a smartass? Hmm....?

And like Animus said, because it affects one or 2 people out of many, I'm not going to cater to you. Yes I am too lazy to type out mangekyou sharingan.

Maybe you should psychologically re-work your mind so when you see MS on this forum it means Mangekyou Sharingan and not Multiple Sclerosis.

I've seen close ones to be pass away... Maybe the world should stop making movies/shows with people dying because everytime I see it, it makes me think about my lost ones.

[JaySee]

When you know a person that has it you will understand. It reminds those that either have it or know someone that has it is in pain.

it would be unfair to ask them to look past their emotions so you can shorthand two words
Wow! You must REALLY hate Microsoft then. :rolleyes:

[Animeniax]

Looks like DF got caught on a lame joke, and now he's making up reasons how it wasn't a joke and why we should all be sorry for not liking a lame joke.

Anyway, I don't think Kakashi can deduct the side-effects from MS based on his experience with regular S. Just because they are both eye effects, doesn't mean they are similar. After all, S lets you examine and dissect genjutsu and ninjutsu techniques, and MS applies genjutsu techniques (as far as we've seen, it may be useful for other techniques too). Not really the same thing.

[XanBcoo]

When you know a person that has it you will understand. It reminds those that either have it or know someone that has it is in pain.

it would be unfair to ask them to look past their emotions so you can shorthand two words
Personally, I haven't shortened Mangekyou Sharingan once in this thread, but I still think you're making a deal of this. I know someone with TB, but every time I see that acronym, I don't start telling people not to use it. You're being a bit too sensitive about this, especially since "MS" is a pretty legitimate shortcut to writing out a particularly long foreign word. You sound like the Mizuki quote in Assertn's sig, dude...

Whatever. I didn't want to derail further, but IMO that was a pretty ridiculous thing to say.


I kinda assumed Kakashi's "how bad has your eyesight become" question was metaphorical, as a way to reveal that Itachi has neglected to notice something.
I agree it works in this context as well. He either said it literally to taunt Itachi, or he was hinting at something not yet revealed to the viewers. What that could be though, I guess we'll find out. In any case, I still don't buy that Itachi's afraid of him having Mangekyou Sharingan.

Anyway, I don't think Kakashi can deduct the side-effects from MS based on his experience with regular S.
Yes, but he's not deducing the effect of Mangekyou based on his experiences with his own Sharingan. He figured them out for the reasons he stated in the episode. He could have been dead wrong, but Itachi's reaction clarified this reasoning.

[Animeniax]

Yes, but he's not deducing the effect of Mangekyou based on his experiences with his own Sharingan. He figured them out for the reasons he stated in the episode. He could have been dead wrong, but Itachi's reaction clarified this reasoning.
Yep I agree completely. I was just arguing against what some people said about how Kakashi must have deduced MS's effects on the eyes based on his experience with S. Therefore, he must have researched or had first-hand experience with MS and its effects on the eyes. After he got owned by Itachi in their last encounter, I would expect that he researched everything known about MS, and that's how he knows more about it, without actually knowing how to do the technique.

[masamuneehs]

I'm declaring this conversation over. I don't care what you call it, how you abbreviate it or what your personal feelings are about Mangekyou Sharingan, but this is getting stupidly off-topic. If you don't have something to say about this episode of Naruto Shippuuden, please refrain from posting further in this thread.

Thank you and let's get back to what we're all here for.
Masa

[Assertn]

MS isn't just genjutsu.....
Amaterasu is an MS ninjutsu that produces those black flames to burn through anything.

[Shinji Ikari]

This is the worst episode ever made, I have never ever seen such a crappy episode where everyone is standing still for a whole episode :S

[Kn1ves]

This is the worst episode ever made, I have never ever seen such a crappy episode where everyone is standing still for a whole episode :S

Never seen DBZ? Its just one of the many similarities of the series..

[RyougaZell]

Kn1ves with a one? wth?


MS isn't just genjutsu.....
Amaterasu is an MS ninjutsu that produces those black flames to burn through anything.

Amaterasu -> Ninjutsu
Tsukuyomi -> Genjutsu

Could the Mangekyou have a Taijutsu ability as well? I would add Kenjutsu as well... but apart from Zabuza, Hayate and Kisame we really haven't seen other sword masters... (technically Tenten should know how to wield one... but who knows)

[DarthEnderX]

You know what, I don't even care anymore.

I'll find out the answer Thursday night.

[Crash]

You know what, I don't even care anymore.

I'll find out the answer Thursday night.

Maybe, but my gut feeling is that this weeks episode is going to be Naruto fighting in Itachi's genjutsu the whole time. Which actually wouldn't be bad since i'd like to see them focus and flesh out one fight this time instead of hoping back and fourth with some mediocre action.

[DB_Hunter]

Don't count on it. By the looks of the preview the majority of it will be the Kisame Vs Gai fight, with snippets of the Itachi Genjutsu thrown in.

[KCMmmmm]

Maybe, but my gut feeling is that this weeks episode is going to be Naruto fighting in Itachi's genjutsu the whole time. Which actually wouldn't be bad since i'd like to see them focus and flesh out one fight this time instead of hoping back and fourth with some mediocre action.

Yeah, that really annoys me as well. Just when I get back into whatever is going on in the current fight, they switch it to another one. Worse yet, is the shift from an action scene to some distant country with nothing important transpiring there. Like showing Naruto fighting in the Genjutsu, switching to the Gai vs Kisame fight, and then making a switch back to the sand village, where they are all talking about what might be happening all the while interpreting breaking mugs as signs of ill fortune. What a waste of time.

[Crash]

Don't count on it. By the looks of the preview the majority of it will be the Kisame Vs Gai fight, with snippets of the Itachi Genjutsu thrown in.

Gah, i never watch the previews because i like to keep the next episode a surprise. I really hope they don't do as much skipping around as they did in this episode. Ideally there should be an episode dedicated completely to each fight.

[AngryGumball]

hated the episode, hated it.

Sorry I am so rooting for Kisame and Itachi to win just because itsmore of the same.


No real development on why kakashi feels more confident in dealing with Itachi.

Gai's team is weak, and why for the love all that is good why is that team still together, why haven't Gai gone on to teach a new team, same with Kakashi.

Ok maybe I understand because these are difficult times, but how do you explain Gai and Neji on same team with they are both Joo's.

Its like the same writing since the old series, they haven't upped the ante to improve things just giving us the same junk as before.


But I'm still in love with TenTen, ;) *even if she is weak combat skills*

I mean I liked that Kisame called all that water to make it fight in his element but he rode the waves around trying to capture them for like 8minutes of episode time........boring fight development, thx for making this a boring episode.

Man I was soo psyched to see Kisame and Itachi again I was so like it is on....Konoha your going down, or i was like man there is no way that the Team 7 can defeat Itachi its gotta be the old lady who will bring the whoopass on Itachi, sorry even though it makes sense for Itachi and Kisame to fight these people again, its just stupid to end their battle/rilvary so soon in the series, and if they do not end it then man we are absolutely doomed to crappy fights over and over again.

[DarthEnderX]

I gotta agree with that. Neji should be leading his own team by now, instead of still following Gai around.

[DB_Hunter]

Agreed on the Neji part. Kurenai was leading a team of Genin soon after becomming a Jounin, there is no reason why Neji shouldn't be doing it either. Having two Jounin on one team should make it really powerful, and I hope they don't ruin Gai's team by having Neji just learn two or three more techniques and nothing else.

The only reason could be is that Neji could be on some sort of list to become a team leader, its just that there are other Jounin ahead of him who may be teaching. That or he has recently become a Jounin and its not the right time of the year to be assigning Jounin's to Genin teams.

[Assertn]

Not all jounins have genin students. Hyuuga Hiashi, for example, is a Jounin and pretty much just does whatever...

[animus]

Neji's still pretty damn young. What is he 16-17? Teenagers probably as of yet do not have the ability or how should I say, the mentality of that of a mentor or a tutor.

[RyougaZell]

According to the Chuunin exams... Chuunins are team leaders.
Yes, they do not lead Genins, but being Chuunin makes them worth being a team leader.
Thus... every Jounin, despite how young/old/new should be capable of directing a Genin team.

Aoba, Shizune, Genma, Anko, Ibiki, Shikato, Chouza, Inochi, Kiba's mom. All are Jounins as well and don't have genins under them.

Ebisu didn't had them for years before Konohamaru Corps.

Thus... Neji is capable of having his team, but hasn't been asigned one. So if the Hokage sends him with his old team she can if she wants to.

[Assassin]

Also, the same applies to gai. It's never been said that once you're team graduates, you get a new team rite away. He could just be a "free" jounin like neji and the others, doing missions (which is what thier real job is).

Not to mention that he could have a team, and still have been sent on this mission because he's uniquely qualified. He's one of the strongest jounin in konoha, he knows his team mates and thier strenghts/weakneses really well, he has experience facing akatsuki members before, as well as experience fighting against the sharingan.

[Mizuchi]

after watching this ep, i felt like rewatching some of the old naruto eps. i watched episodes 49 and 50 which were part of the lee vs gaara chuunin prelims. That's when i realized how bad naruto has become. Sure the story line is good, but the reason i liked it before was because so much happened and it had so much meaning. Now all it is, is whenever naruto hears the word sasuke, he runs off and goes into a DBZ fight, which goes SOO slowly. In eps 49 and 50, the fights were sooo exciting. The creaters of this show have gotten so caught up in not getting back into fillers that without realizing it, they dropped the regular show's quality almost down to filler level. It's like this isn't even naruto anymore.

Like there was so much meaning before. I loved the part in lee vs gaara when they showed young lee training so hard to beat neji. There was like a good story and meaning behind everything. Now its just pointless fights.

P.S. I wonder how sakura became chuunin when both of her teammates were missing...

[DB_Hunter]

I agree, there is something missing in these fights that was there in the orignal Naruto fights. There seemed to be a lot more emotion and meaning behind each fight, and there were twists and turns in the plot. Remember the Zabuza arc? That was gold. Despite the genin involved not having uber-ultra-hardcore-one-hit-instant-death moves, the fights were more entertaining and drew you in to the story. I remember even when Itachi first turned up everyone was like 'wow!'

It all just seems a bit anti-climatic now. The only bit that evoked the same sort of feelings in Shippuden was the very first teaser trailer of the forthcoming Naruto Vs Sasuke fight.

[JaySee]

I disagree. Gaara's fight had purpose and gave depth to his character. The Kankuro fight was just a plot device. That's why it wasn't drawn out in the manga. I've already said how terribly they filled it in. Any fights without Naruto there to give a speech or a flashback of a previous Naruto speech are just fights to move the plot along.

[Assertn]

Also, the same applies to gai. It's never been said that once you're team graduates, you get a new team rite away. He could just be a "free" jounin like neji and the others, doing missions (which is what thier real job is).

Not to mention that he could have a team, and still have been sent on this mission because he's uniquely qualified. He's one of the strongest jounin in konoha, he knows his team mates and thier strenghts/weakneses really well, he has experience facing akatsuki members before, as well as experience fighting against the sharingan.
You can also compare it to team Kakashi...where it's not a team of teacher and pupils, but equally respected shinobi.

[AngryGumball]

You can also compare it to team Kakashi...where it's not a team of teacher and pupils, but equally respected shinobi.


I'm sorry but I don't see it as equally respected Shinobi, its Kakashi leading Sakura and Naruto still.

Its still Gai leading the team, even look at how they stand in the Episode its Gai standing forefront others arrayed to the sides of him, its Kakashi in front.

While everyone is making reasons why Neji and Gai are working in same team, the fact that your making reasons means the storytelling simply is not good enough at this extended lifespan of the entire series.

Are we to assume in the time jump that there haven't been graduating classes, are we to assume that the village only has these ninja that we can all name, and the village really depends on them for security. If so then the story fails by having the same teams exist or same people out together on the same mission.

Don't get me wrong they get very small parts/scenes right, the part where kakashi says blind itachi, then the camera switches to where we see Itachi blink as if in reflective thought was perfect, and well drawn to express the unwritten emotion in Itachi's eyes......however we still should reasonably believe Itachi is gonna open multiple cans of whoopass

[RyougaZell]

So you mean to imply there are so few Jounins so have to disband previous teams, which aren't anymore of teacher - student relationship, but of understanding having worked togeteher for years, so they can teach newbies?

Remember Naruto's graduating class.
30 Genin... from which only 9 remained active according to the 66% rate of failure of the 'equivalent-bell' test.

3 freaking Jounin started teaching. And if the 66% failure rate wasn't real, it would mean it would have been 10 Jounin.

Does Konoha has so few Jounin, as make it seem, that they need to asign a Jounin who previously had a team, a new team?

Answer... NO.

The way I see Kishimoto showing these, is that a Jounin never takes a 2nd team. And before you said Kakashi failed many before... it was because of the same reason. He never teached before, and once he had a team he isn't needed to teach a 2nd one.

Thus, only Neji could have a team currently, as everybody else is Chuunin, and the Jounin already had a team before.

Konohamaru's team graduated, and they were given to a Jounin who most likely never had a team before, Ebisu. Remember he used to 'teach' Konohamaru before, so he didn't have a team.

You do not see Kakashi, Sakura and Naruto as equals? Too bad for you. They were taught by Sannins. And that, in their world, is enough. Maybe not to us, who only see a fraction of their time, but they never mention things lightly in their world.

[animus]

Kakashi was taught by Yondaime, the most powerful ninja Konoha ever produced. Kakashi himself might consider them equals, as he will be relying on them for backup, but truly they still do not rival his skill/and or ability yet.

[Animeniax]

Angrygumball has a good point, it is weak storytelling to keep these teams together, but RyougaZell isn't too far off either.

These are A or S rank missions, going up against Akatsuki S-class villains, so you're not going to see any rookie Genin or even Chuunin in these episodes, even if more Genins and Chuunins have graduated or been promoted in Konoha. Besides, why would Kishimoto introduce even more characters when the current batch is already so under-utilized?

[boilerph]

I think you have to look at as a function of story-telling. There are already a lot of characters that the show is trying to follow. It really wouldn't be very well served by introducing entire squads of new Konoha characters.

[Assertn]

Why would it be stronger story-telling to split them up?

An important aspect of a team is.....you know.....teamwork, and your teamwork is stronger when you keep the same group of people together for all their missions. Everyone on Gai's team knows their strengths and weaknesses, and are able to effortlessly pull off combo attacks this way (as shown with Gai's team vs Kisame several times in this ep).

[boilerph]

Why would it be stronger story-telling to split them up?

An important aspect of a team is.....you know.....teamwork, and your teamwork is stronger when you keep the same group of people together for all their missions. Everyone on Gai's team knows their strengths and weaknesses, and are able to effortlessly pull off combo attacks this way (as shown with Gai's team vs Kisame several times in this ep).



I meant it was stronger story-telling for them to stay together as they are now. I was using story-telling as a response to the people saying the teams should be broken up. If everyone was broken up you would have to introduce new characters or heavily flesh-out background characters and that just seems like a little bit too much at this point. There are already a lot of characters that are being managed.

[Animeniax]

Why would it be stronger story-telling to split them up?

An important aspect of a team is.....you know.....teamwork, and your teamwork is stronger when you keep the same group of people together for all their missions. Everyone on Gai's team knows their strengths and weaknesses, and are able to effortlessly pull off combo attacks this way (as shown with Gai's team vs Kisame several times in this ep).
It would be more realistic to split up pupils from their teacher, and send out a team of equals on an S-class mission. Yes they have worked together, but Neji is a relatively new Jounin and Tenten and Lee are still Chuunin (I think), so sending them out on an S-class mission doesn't make much sense. I don't know how busy Konoha is mission-wise, but I'd rather have a team of Gai, Kurenai, and Asuma chasing an S-class villain.

Another problem with this team is a mistake from Kishimoto: it's basically a team of taijutsu users. Where's the balance in that?

Of course, another part of people's arguments is why isn't Gai with a new team of Genins, and Neji working with other Jounin or having his own team. Like boilerph said, that would introduce too many new genins or force the writers to elaborate on other Jounins that go too far outside the manga storyline.