Naruto Shippuuden Episode 12 [Archive]

DarthEnderX

Fri, 05-04-2007, 03:06 AM

Awsome setup episode. All leading up to the throwdowns of next week I hope!

Lots of good information first of all. Glad they finally confirmed what alot of us kinda assumed about the tailed beasts. There being nine, and all having different tails. The old lady even named one we haven't seen yet.

And from what it sounds like, 2 of Akat already have their tailed beasts. Also, each member seems to have their eye on a specific beast. Guessing Mr. Zero wants Naruto. Although maybe Itachi wasn't Naruto since they're from the same village.

I assumed Akatsuki was all over the world, but it looks like most of them seem to be in the area. At least, 5 of the 9 are so far.

Mm, good stuff.

Kraco

Fri, 05-04-2007, 04:18 AM

Yeah, this was a seriously good episode. On a par with what Naruto used to be before the fillers galore. Also, it was hardly surprising who the welcome committee turned out to be: It's somehow traditional to keep new enemies in the shadows for as long as possible and not reveal their powers. Well, of course we haven't actually seen Kisame and Itachi fight seriously that much, so it's all good. Still, you would think they would have their hands full: Both fighting against multiple opponents that should be far from lousy already.

Sucks Temari was left behind, though. We lost the uber hot chick and got a mummified old geezer instead...

Janusz

Fri, 05-04-2007, 07:19 AM

Lots of good information first of all. Glad they finally confirmed what alot of us kinda assumed about the tailed beasts. There being nine, and all having different tails. The old lady even named one we haven't seen yet.

What do you mean she named one? They're called onetail, twotail, etcetra, and that's exactly what she said. What's the big deal?

RyougaZell

Fri, 05-04-2007, 08:18 AM

Was the girl on Temari's team Matsuri?
You know... filler character from the last filler arc.
Despite being a bad arc, it was the one of the only two filler characters I liked (along Sasame from Fuuma Clan).

Ichibi and Kyuubi are the first and last Bijuu. But if Ichibi is called Shukaku... does that mean Kyuubi has a name as well? Or was Shukaku the name of the first priest possessed by Ichibi and the Suna-nin simply left the name?

Psyke

Fri, 05-04-2007, 08:24 AM

Ichibi and Kyuubi are the first and last Bijuu. But if Ichibi is called Shukaku... does that mean Kyuubi has a name as well? Or was Shukaku the name of the first priest possessed by Ichibi and the Suna-nin simply left the name?

The truth is that when Gaara and the Shukaku was introduced, Mishimoto never planned on having the plot of 9 different beasts with the said number of tails. Kyuubi was well, a 9 tailed demon fox, while the Shukaku was just another beast (with 1 tail). After that, Kishimoto decided to introduce the concept of the jinchuuriki, as well as the other "tailed-beasts".

I know I've not answered your question..... but well.... :o

nests

Fri, 05-04-2007, 09:44 AM

OK this episode was very well done I know is a good episode when I have a smile trough out the whole thing in fact I dont remember any other fight set up episode where I didnt mind it ending just before the fight.

Munsu

Fri, 05-04-2007, 09:49 AM

RyougaZell

Fri, 05-04-2007, 10:16 AM

Psyke:
Yeah. I knew that. But since Kishimoto decided to introduce this concept, he should be giving Kyuubi no Yoko another name apart from Kyuubi. Or at least cover himself by saying Shukaku was the name of the first Ichibi Jinchuuriki.

Munsu:
I believe she was alone in the manga, but can't confirm it since I don't the have the scans in this computer.
But the girl DOES resemble Matsuri, which would be a first. I mean, every other filler character practically no longer exists, since they were all (thankfully) thrown out / forgotten. I wouldn't mind her returning though.

Mr. Roboto

Fri, 05-04-2007, 10:38 AM

i really enjoyed this episode. it looks like kisame really wants a shot at gai. it was interesting what neeji said about kisame having the most chakra he's seen other than naruto. team gai is going to have their hands full with him. also, i liked having itachi go up against kakashi again. i want to see how kakashi changes how he fights given how itachi trapped him in his world in the prior fight. and i'd also like to see if kakashi really did learn a new technique like he said after the bell challenge with naruto and sakura.

Assertn

Fri, 05-04-2007, 10:57 AM

What's wrong with just saying "Shukaku is the Ichibi"?

Also....as for the nine beasts adopted after shukaku's introduction.....wasn't the ichibi supposed to be a tanuki anyway, based on chinese mythology?

Edit: Looks like that unknown pink-eyed akatsuki guy almost made an appearance. Maybe we need a third group to show up =]

Kagari

Fri, 05-04-2007, 11:37 AM

just what i missed...unbearable suspense, leaving me with a "NO! SERIOUSLY? GOD DAMN YOU!" at the end of the episode for ending it where they did.

Kisame didn't seem too frighting the first few times we saw him...but all of sudden he's brimming with confidence, and what Neji said just makes him scarier.

Kakshi's face when seeing itatchi...wow...By the looks of it, Itatchi will be donating some of his chakra to continue the process of extracting ichibi from gaara, since Kisame was told to give 30% of his chakra. I assume Itatchi will have to give the same. Maybe that's the reason Naruto's group will survive.

Psyke

Fri, 05-04-2007, 11:37 AM

Also....as for the nine beasts adopted after shukaku's introduction.....wasn't the ichibi supposed to be a tanuki anyway, based on chinese mythology?

Yes, the Shukaku is based on the racoon. However, the Tanuki originates from Japanese folklore, rather than Chinese. It is most well known in anime from the Studio Ghibli film Pom Poko. Interesting movie, I must say. Go check it out if you can.

Crash

Fri, 05-04-2007, 12:20 PM

Kisame didn't seem too frighting the first few times we saw him...but all of sudden he's brimming with confidence, and what Neji said just makes him scarier.

The first thing i thought of when Neji said that was that Kisame must be one of the Akatsuki who has obtained his Bijuu. After all, Naruto's massive chakra is due to the fact that the nine tails is sealed within him so it would make sense that if Kisame has a similarly massive amount that he must have also obtained one. Really excited to see what happens next episode :D

boilerph

Fri, 05-04-2007, 12:37 PM

The first thing i thought of when Neji said that was that Kisame must be one of the Akatsuki who has obtained his Bijuu. After all, Naruto's massive chakra is due to the fact that the nine tails is sealed within him so it would make sense that if Kisame has a similarly massive amount that he must have also obtained one. Really excited to see what happens next episode :D

A possibility but I am leaning more towards the theory that his sword actually retains the chakra that it "eats" and transfers it to Kisame.

Crash

Fri, 05-04-2007, 12:54 PM

A possibility but I am leaning more towards the theory that his sword actually retains the chakra that it "eats" and transfers it to Kisame.

Hmmm, indeed i had forgotten about his swords ability and thats certainly a valid possibility. Either way though next week should be a great set of showdowns.

Kraco

Fri, 05-04-2007, 01:08 PM

One thing I've been thinking about is that unless Akatsuki started with some Jinchuuriki people in from the beginning, it's likely they would never succeed in obtaining all of them. So far we have seen Naruto and Gaara, and they both happen to be very young and despite Gaara being the Kazekage, he was hardly amazingly experienced (and as we saw, the village of Sand had pretty poor general level of ninjas all in all). However, it's hard to believe all the people having such demons inside them would be so easily defeated.

Of course nothing indicates all the Bijuu would be already inside people - Kyuubi was free before Naruto - but if some happened to be inside some older badass ninja, the Akatsuki members sent to retrieve that one would more likely all end up dead. Maybe years later when some of them who have succeeded in obtaining theirs would go after such an experienced super ninja with their new powers they might succeed.

DB_Hunter

Fri, 05-04-2007, 03:16 PM

Yeah I'm thinking Kisame is getting the huge amount of chakra from his sword. It can no way be a natural ability, as he might as well be the 10th bloody Bijuu. My attack plan would be to get rid of the sword, and you will probably get rid of most of the chakra at Kisame's disposal.

But yeah seriously, is Zetsu cloning himself or something in some sort of defensive formation or what? It can't be him jumping around all the time. Plus, it didn't make sense when he revealed that it was Maito Gai approaching.... I think Lee only called him Gai and not his full name. The way Zetsu revealed the identity of Gai made it look as though he did not know of him from before.

As for how much chakra Itachi has had to give up, I assume it would be more than 30%. Since he has less than Kisame he would have to give a greater percentage of his chakra to equal Kisame's donated chakra in absolute terms (Sorry, the Engineer in me couldn't resist there :P).

Despite both fighter probably giving up Chakra to the bijuu extraction process, I think the whole thing will slow down. The giving chakra is like giving more fuel to a car. It won't make it go faster, though it will make it last longer.

big_ac

Fri, 05-04-2007, 04:19 PM

I'm guessing that Zetsu is just moving around rather than cloning himself. He seems to be a sort of scout/sentry type of team member. We've already seen people roaming around at comparable speed using doton jutsu. Zetsu probably uses that in combination with an equivalent technique that substitutes trees (and possibly other plants) for earth. Although we haven't seen his slashed headband yet, I'm going to bet that Zetsu is from the Village Hidden in the Grass, based on his apparently plant-based abilities.

As for Rock Lee only addressing Gai by his "first" name, you have to remember we didn't hear their whole conversation with Pakkun. With all the formality inherent in Japanese culture, it is a pretty safe assumption that Pakkun called him by his full name at some point, which the lurking Zetsu then heard.

Necromas

Fri, 05-04-2007, 04:33 PM

Or it's not too far of a stretch that he'd know the full name of one of the strongest shinobi in Konoha.

I liked this episode, again it advances the plot nicely, but this time sets us up for two cool battles, and I really have to restrain myself not to give a manga spoiler right now.

nests

Fri, 05-04-2007, 05:31 PM

Yeah is hard not saying anything speacially since they have been handling so well
correct me if I am wrong but I think this episode just coverd one manga chapter

Genma

Fri, 05-04-2007, 07:01 PM

Not sure why everyone is going off saying this is a good episode. I mean... it was decent at best. The overused animation of Gaara getting Shukaku sucked out of him was annoying, there was a lot of running between the teams, and then there was a little too much shock factor involved with Itachi. I mean, was it really necessary for Naruto to say his name, then have the animation pan over to Sakura saying the same thing, followed by a zoom in of Itachi's face?

Plus, they did a terrible job of Gai-sensei's forgetfulness. In the manga I laughed, because I think it was intended to be funny. In the anime, they continued to play dramatic music, and there was nothing really funny about Gai not remembering.

Still better than the fillers, though, and that god-awful excuse for an anime movie known as Naruto Movie 3.

Assertn

Fri, 05-04-2007, 07:49 PM

Thanks Necromas for announcing your prophetic urges. Makes it easier for me to "big brother" you. :rolleyes:

Yeah is hard not saying anything speacially since they have been handling so well
correct me if I am wrong but I think this episode just coverd one manga chapter
I'm pretty sure it covered like.....3 chapters.
One ended with Chiyo joining the group.
One ended with Kisame showing up.
One ended with Itachi showing up.

Idealistic

Fri, 05-04-2007, 09:13 PM

Not sure why everyone is going off saying this is a good episode.

Simple because... It was a good episode.

I enjoyed it, the anime seems to moving at a much faster pace now. Before I thought it would take forever to get to this part. As for the whole Gai and Kisame thing, I thought it was pretty funny.. lol..

Can't wait for next episode... Kakashi fighting Itachi again!

DarthEnderX

Fri, 05-04-2007, 10:33 PM

I mean, was it really necessary for Naruto to say his name, then have the animation pan over to Sakura saying the same thing, followed by a zoom in of Itachi's face?Because the scene was really important for Sakura. Or did you forget the speech she made just a couple episodes ago about wanting to defeat Itachi to save Sasuke. And now, here he is.

Yeah. I knew that. But since Kishimoto decided to introduce this concept, he should be giving Kyuubi no Yoko another name apart from Kyuubi. Or at least cover himself by saying Shukaku was the name of the first Ichibi Jinchuuriki.Or maybe he's just saving Kyuubi's name for when it becomes relavent. It's not like he and Naruto are on a first name basic. They're all "You're pathetic kid." "Shutup and give me chakra bastard fox!"

Nai

Fri, 05-04-2007, 11:56 PM

This episode just made it all click for me. I finally felt like Naruto was back and better than ever.

And naturally, I keep falling deeper in love with Zetsu. His voice is just too freakin' sexy. Even more so than Sakon's was!

Plus, they did a terrible job of Gai-sensei's forgetfulness. In the manga I laughed, because I think it was intended to be funny. In the anime, they continued to play dramatic music, and there was nothing really funny about Gai not remembering.

You have to be kidding me! The dramatic music just added to the sheer hilarity of that scene.

Gai: ... You...
Kisame: B)
Gai: ... WHO ARE YOU !?
Kisame: B( *cue dramatic crescendo*

I don't think I've ever laughed as hard while watching Naruto. Maybe I'm just odd?

nests

Sat, 05-05-2007, 12:13 AM

Yeah I thought it was funny too but every one has a different taste

masamuneehs

Sat, 05-05-2007, 10:15 AM

The first thing i thought of when Neji said that was that Kisame must be one of the Akatsuki who has obtained his Bijuu. After all, Naruto's massive chakra is due to the fact that the nine tails is sealed within him

I am leaning more towards the theory that his sword actually retains the chakra that it "eats" and transfers it to Kisame.

I'm tempted to go with the Sword holding massive chakra theory. It's in line with what Kisame said about his sword and also, since Akatsuki seems to have three Jinchuurikis (including Gaara), there's no guarantee that Kisame has the strongest out of those three. In fact, we don't even know if each of them is trying to get a Bijuu or if they're doing something else.

Very interesting that he's the one with the most Chakra. However, that makes me very happy, because Chakra != power level, and I was afraid Naruto would devolve into a DBZ-like "Strength is all that matters" shit-show.

However, i'm not happy with the fact that Kisame and Itachi are only fighting with a diminished portion of their chakra. I know it has to happen, but I hate it when people hold back their powers in fights...

It's true that each member is targeting a Bijuu. From Deidara and the pink-eyed guy, it might be true that each of them intends on absorbing an individual Bijuu. However, I don't think that's the case, and I've got 3 arguments as to why.

1. The absorption thing that's sucking the Ichibi out of Gaara and Chiyo's mention of taking alot of effort to do such indicates that the massive, eye-opening thing that Zero summoned is the only one of its kind. Basically, either the nine would each have to be able to gather in the power of a Bijuu into themselves or be totally dependent on Zero. He needs them to participate in the draining, but it seems like he's really the one running the show.

2. Akatsuki was originally ten, not nine, meaning one of the ten would be left empty-handed (the reason Orochimaru left?). But Psyke saying that Kishimoto came up with this storyline after he had Orochimaru being a member of the group, so it could be a plothole...

3. I just can't see how this group would go about saying "you get the Ichibi, you get the Kyuubi, you get..." and all the members being fine with it. They'd need a very strong hierarchy and anyone with too much ambition would run afoul of the plan. Also, once one member got a Bijuu's powers, why would he stick around? Hell, could he be forced to stick around with that much power? He'd help the others, for their sakes? Pft, I don't know, but that kind of honor code among villains would truly be unique.

At this point I think they split up the energy they get from the Bijuus, making them all a bit more powerful. That or Zero's Bijuu Sucker is holding on to all of that chakra somewhere and will form a super-weapon/monster when they catch them all. I just feel that there'd be too many potential conflicts with each of them getting a Bijuu of their own.

I thought Zetsu was stationing copies of himself all around his perimeter. But now I don't think that's the case, but who knows? Maybe his scouting abilities let him "see" everything happening in that area

I thought Gai was purposefully forgetting Kisame, to try to enrage him or just for kicks. I thought the music wasn't properly done in this scene, but it was still funny.

Idealistic

Sat, 05-05-2007, 10:32 AM

I thought Zetsu was stationing copies of himself all around his perimeter. But now I don't think that's the case, but who knows? Maybe his scouting abilities let him "see" everything happening in that area

I thought Gai was purposefully forgetting Kisame, to try to enrage him or just for kicks. I thought the music wasn't properly done in this scene, but it was still funny.

His scouting might work like Byakugan? Minus the seeing chakra points.... But I figured Zetsu was just camped at the right spot.... Like the intersecting point of where Team Kakashi and Team Gai had to go through before they can make it to the Akatsuki's hideout. The fact that he can camouflage is probably why he is a good scout and not just because he has vision.

As for the music not being properly done... I can't even tell the difference if there's a new kind of song playing, they all sound the same to me, plain and boring. None of the new music really hypes me up.

Assertn

Sun, 05-06-2007, 01:40 AM

I thought Gai was purposefully forgetting Kisame, to try to enrage him or just for kicks. I thought the music wasn't properly done in this scene, but it was still funny.

Nah, its to set up for the real comedic aspect of that exchange: Kisame acusing the great "beast" of Konoha to have the brain of a beast as well.

ASSpirine

Sun, 05-06-2007, 04:17 AM

I walways like the suiton jutsus, they always sound so cool. So i'm glad Kisame is appearing again.

Have you also noticed Neji carrying a bag of some sorts? Am anxious to know what it is. Would he also be using scrolls instead of only taijutsus?

Also, what is with the pigeon that came back? They didn't go into that.

UChessmaster

Sun, 05-06-2007, 08:00 AM

Have you also noticed Neji carrying a bag of some sorts? Am anxious to know what it is. Would he also be using scrolls instead of only taijutsus?

It`s a bag... every konoha shinobi has one :p

XanBcoo

Sun, 05-06-2007, 07:57 PM

*A wild Itachi appears*

*Sakura gasps*
*Naruto throws park ball*
*Wild Itachi is not affected*

Decent episode, I'd say. Nothing exceptionally exciting, but it was still interesting. I too, think Guy's dialog with Kisame was not as funny as it could have been, but it's good to see that Guy is his same old self.

Pity we didn't get to see the other Akatsuki guy. I'm really looking forward to meeting the other members.

Animeniax

Sun, 05-06-2007, 10:39 PM

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but why would Kisame fight team Gai? A guy with "ridiculous amount of chakra" going up against a team of mainly taijutsu users doesn't make much sense. I understand Kisame wants revenge, but it's a poorly done match-up.

Animation was fantastic, though the story line felt a bit slow. I don't know why, but it still feels like filler to me, even though I know most of this episode is manga based. Might be the dialog or music or something. Can't put my finger on it.

Munsu

Sun, 05-06-2007, 11:28 PM

The Akatsuki said they needed/wanted to do some sort of special jutsu to handle the situation that apparently requires a lot of chakra, so Kisame looks like he was the most appropiate at the moment.

Assertn

Mon, 05-07-2007, 12:34 AM

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but why would Kisame fight team Gai? A guy with "ridiculous amount of chakra" going up against a team of mainly taijutsu users doesn't make much sense. I understand Kisame wants revenge, but it's a poorly done match-up.

If that's so...then what would be a good matchup against taijutsu?
We know genjutsu would flat-out not work, since Neji can see through it and Gai has some ability at canceling genjutsu as well.

Animeniax

Mon, 05-07-2007, 01:06 AM

I just think the situation would have been easier to handle if Itachi used mangekou sharingan on 4 taijutsu users (though Neji's byakugan might be able to dispel the trance world), and Kisame could use his enormous chakra for the special jutsu against team Kakashi, which is the more dangerous group I'd imagine, especially with Naruto's enormous chakra.

Munsu

Mon, 05-07-2007, 01:15 AM

Yeah, and Akatsuki knew that Naruto's team would be chasing after them... Plus in their last encounter (Itachi and Gai), it was shown that taijutsu might just be Itachi's weakness, if he ever had any.

Assertn

Mon, 05-07-2007, 01:19 AM

Yeah, Gai wouldn't fall for Itachi's Tsukuyomi that easily. He's had years of training against a skilled sharingan user. He would just look at Itachi's feet.

In fact, I'd say that Itachi would have a harder time fighting a taijutsu user than anyone else. Remember from Sasuke's fight with Lee, the sharingan won't help you if your body can't move as fast as your eyes can anticipate. While Itachi might be faster at performing Ninjutsu, he definitely won't be faster in pure agility and taijutsu.

Yukimura

Mon, 05-07-2007, 02:08 AM

I find it hard to believe that a guy who killed an entire ninja clan in one night wouldn't be a top level taijutsu user in addition to his Sharingan and other techniques. He could probably keep up with Gai, at least for a while, eventually he might see an opening and apply some devastating jutsu and ruin Gai's day (Amaterasu perhaps). The fact that he forms hand seals faster than Kakashi can see, while Kakashi and Gai are supposedly evenly matched also lowers the chances that Gai would be able to take him on. Buy 2.5 years is a long time and we've never really seen Gai pushed to the limit anyway so who knows what he's got up his sleeve.

Kraco

Mon, 05-07-2007, 02:34 AM

I find it hard to believe that a guy who killed an entire ninja clan in one night wouldn't be a top level taijutsu user in addition to his Sharingan and other techniques.

In the flashbacks those ninja clan members died like sheeps. It didn't look to me as if Itachi had to fight especially hard to beat them. I think slaughtering them was for him more like a measure of how far he could go morally to reach his objectives than a test of the limits of his strength.

Besides, it would render Gai's character useless if he wasn't at the top in taijutsu. However, that doesn't mean Itachi wouldn't be able to beat Gai using everything he knows. I don't really believe the people at the top, who are specialized at some skills, wouldn't be able to adapt those skills against different all the kind of opponents. That would be insane, and certainly wouldn't make them great ninjas.

RyougaZell

Mon, 05-07-2007, 08:28 AM

While those flashbacks weren't most of them on the manga... the Uchiha clan was cocky, and always seemed to depend on their Sharingans.
Itachi having the Magenkyou most likely owned them all. My guess is what he was measuring was the power of his new eye, not his own previous abilities (which were top ranked). Unless he was the typical cocky Uchiha, he should have trained other abilities all this years. Yet, Gai is most likely above him in Taijutsu.

masamuneehs

Mon, 05-07-2007, 09:51 AM

Assertn

Mon, 05-07-2007, 10:40 AM

Well, not as to say that Gai would necessarily beat Itachi....just that Gai would stand a better chance against Itachi than most other characters.

RyougaZell

Mon, 05-07-2007, 12:19 PM

interesting, I hadn't thought about Itachi being weak against Taijutsu at all... I always figured a pure Taijutsu fighter would be screwed against him, since the second they made a mistake and looked into his eyes it would be over. I always thought the best kind of fighter against Itachi would be an ambush type fighter, someone to get him before he used Sharingan.

But, since he's there and prepared, I suppose it'll be up to Sakura to keep his Genjutsu dispelled, Kakashi to act as the main distractor and Chiyo or Naruto to do the real damage... Rewatching episode 12, it does feel like the Akatasuki didn't want Itachi going up against Gai, so maybe you're all correct. Interesting stuff.

You are correct on the point of just looking at the eyes and you are screwed.
Yet for that to happen you first need the eyes to meet eyes.

Sasuke (who was very much undertrained) depended to much on his newly gained eyes and got his ass kicked by Lee.

Gai has amazing speed, and the knowledge of how not to fall under the Sharingan.

He being a Tai maniac most likely has enough speed to escape Itachi for a while. We actually don't know Itachi's tai and speed levels. Beat him? Who knows, but like Assertn points out, he has the most chances out of many characters.

Itachi was already an ANBU withouth the Mangekyou, so his abilities should have been top. Hopefully he didn't stop training them after gaining his enhanced Sharingan.

Kraco

Mon, 05-07-2007, 01:31 PM

Itachi was already an ANBU withouth the Mangekyou, so his abilities should have been top. Hopefully he didn't stop training them after gaining his enhanced Sharingan.

It needs to be remembered that so far the only times we have seen the ANBU have been them getting their asses kicked, or beating some wild cats... So, at least in my eyes saying somebody was an ANBU member doesn't mean terribly much. They might need to be fine ninjas, but nothing extraordinary.

ASSpirine

Mon, 05-07-2007, 02:37 PM

Well, a team consisting of a Taijutsu master and a Taijutsu master in training with the ability of the unlocking gates (which will provide more power than the hokage) and a genius among geniuses with his great Byakugan ability. This can turn out into an interesting fight. Ow yeah, don't forget about Ten Ten... Don't have much faith in her ability, you rarely see a high ranked Shinobi being hit by a Shuriken or kunai.

DB_Hunter

Mon, 05-07-2007, 05:10 PM

lol that just made me think of Kisame getting kancho'ed with a kunai by TenTen...

ShinobiNiNaritai

Tue, 05-08-2007, 02:05 AM

Now THAT'S a Naruto episode!!! I know most people have already mentioned this being a good ep. But it needed re-mentioning. This is exactly what made me tune in week after week when before the fillers and looked forward to the next weeks episode.
I cannot wait to see what this weeks episode is going to turn out like. I just hope that the great buildup they had with this episode does not lead to an anti-climatic ending.

I doubt that the scout guy was staying in the same location and saw both teams pass the same place, I think his abilities make him able to be scouting multiple places at once.He could do that by having clones of himself placed in a circular area around their base.
I think the fact that both Gai and Rock Lee really do not have chakra to be stolen by Kisame give them a better chance at beating him. As for Itachi, I dont have much to say except that Kakashi's team are on their own, but do have the added (unknown) possibilities of the Obaasan (old woman).

RyougaZell

Tue, 05-08-2007, 08:47 AM

Who says they do not have chakra?
Lee cannot use Ninjutsu nor Genjutsu... but that doesn't mean he doesn't have chakra. All living things has it.
Moreover... to perform his Lotus techniques he requieres chakra.

And whoever said Gai couldn't use Ninjutsu either? Sure, he's never used one before, and is a Taijutsu master... but he definitely doesn't have the same issues as Lee, of being incapable of using Ninjutsu.

Remember that, even though he hasn't used it, he most likely has the summoning contract of the Turtles.

Assertn

Tue, 05-08-2007, 11:07 AM

Remember that, even though he hasn't used it, he most likely has the summoning contract of the Turtles.
That's a weird conclusion to come to....if you don't recall him ever using it....

But yeah, he DID summon a turtle once, and summons are ninjutsu.

RyougaZell

Tue, 05-08-2007, 11:34 AM

That is a plothole I've been waiting Kishimoto to explain someday....

The turtle that scolded Lee was with no doubt a summon, since it could talk and then puffed away. If Lee knew it and it presented Gai its because he has the summon scroll.

Yet we have never seen him use it... so yeah... its more like suppositions but with more bases than saying Gai can't use Ninjutsu when it has only been stated that Lee is the only one that cant.

Kraco

Tue, 05-08-2007, 11:52 AM

I think it's pretty safe to say Gai can but just chooses not to. There are a number of scenes of Lee's history that pretty much elaborated how Lee is special (or hopeless) because he can't use ninjutsu. If Gai, a jounin, couldn't do it, I don't think there would be anything for Lee to worry about, having such a model. Besides, one only needs to have his name on the scroll, not carry it around or even possess it. After all, Naruto's name is on the scroll Jiraya carries around (for who knows what purposes - to gather more frog summoners?).

Perhaps Gai just uses little ninjutsu for his own reasons and lately because he wants to keep the bond between him and Lee strong. As long as he relies on taijutsu only Lee can purely look up to him.

DarthEnderX

Wed, 05-09-2007, 01:28 AM

I don't know why people think Lee doesn't have chakra either. His opening the gates is ALL chakra.

That's what it does, it increases his chakra flow.

It's just Lee focuses all his chakra on making himself faster and stronger, rather than manifesting wierd powers.

Animeniax

Wed, 05-09-2007, 05:06 AM

For Lee it's more than just a choice to use his chakra only for Taijutsu. He can't use ninjutsu or genjutsu. I figure it's like each skill or technique is like a puzzle. Some people can solve the puzzle with practice and use the skill, and others can't. Some get cheats like when Naruto read the scroll and learned the kage bunshin technique, or are shown how to solve the puzzle, like when he was taught rasengan. Some have a natural affinity for solving the puzzle, or get the answers via a bloodline technique like the Uchiha sharingan. Mostly it's just practice or natural skill. Lee is just dumb when it comes to puzzle solving. The rubix cube would put him in a coma.

I don't think it was ever implied that Gai couldn't use ninjutsu or genjutsu techniques. He just prefers taijutsu, probably because he's exceptional at it.

XanBcoo

Wed, 05-09-2007, 03:59 PM

For Lee it's more than just a choice to use his chakra only for Taijutsu. He can't use ninjutsu or genjutsu. I figure it's like each skill or technique is like a puzzle. Some people can solve the puzzle with practice and use the skill, and others can't. Some get cheats like when Naruto read the scroll and learned the kage bunshin technique, or are shown how to solve the puzzle, like when he was taught rasengan. Some have a natural affinity for solving the puzzle, or get the answers via a bloodline technique like the Uchiha sharingan. Mostly it's just practice or natural skill. Lee is just dumb when it comes to puzzle solving. The rubix cube would put him in a coma.
That's a nice analogy, except it implies that Lee's faults are a result of a lack of trying. Lee's just not good at anything, even Taijutsu (I remember Neji saying this early on). He's only good at Taijutsu because he was able to practice it so much. I think that if he had the ability to use nin or genjutsu at all, then he would have practiced it 'til he killed himself.

He's just defective in that respect, I think, not dumb.

ASSpirine

Wed, 05-09-2007, 04:44 PM

Anyone remembered Kakashi saying Lee was a genius? It was when Lee opened the gates, and Gai told Kakashi that Lee could open 5 of the 8 gates. That's when Kakashi said it, he also mentioned that this wasn't from hard work alone. So, Lee does have hidden talent, cause I don't think anyone can do that.

Animeniax

Sat, 05-12-2007, 11:13 AM

That's a nice analogy, except it implies that Lee's faults are a result of a lack of trying. Lee's just not good at anything, even Taijutsu (I remember Neji saying this early on). He's only good at Taijutsu because he was able to practice it so much. I think that if he had the ability to use nin or genjutsu at all, then he would have practiced it 'til he killed himself.

He's just defective in that respect, I think, not dumb.

I don't think his inability is due to a lack of trying and I don't think I implied that. Like for anyone, there are some subjects that will beyond that person's grasp no matter how hard they work at it. And I agree he's not dumb, just inept at the process of solving the intricacies of learning skills in ninjutsu and genjutsu. So he relies on Taijutsu because it allows him to continue living his dream of being a ninja, and because it is something he can get good at with practice. Whereas the other skills are like the rubix cube analogy, you can practice them all you want, but you may never solve it.