Naruto: Shippuuden Episode 3 [Archive]

LobsterMagnet

Thu, 02-22-2007, 08:24 PM

Watching the raw on youtube. I'm about 2/3's my way through and so far I think it's pretty good, nothing mind blowing but I think their doing a good job of stretching out a rather limited amount of manga content. Main point is that naruto and sakura are fighting evenly with kakashi without using any of their more advanced techniques and keeping him on his toes.

As for the dual clone rasengan I'm pretty sure latter on he does it with one hand but I think he likes to do the two handed method just because it's easier.

Oh I don't know about the rest of you but I'm loving the new sound music that's been composed for shippuuden. Really nice to hear some new stuff especially after having all of the other music become tarnished as it was recycled again and again in the fillers.

fifafreak18

Thu, 02-22-2007, 08:25 PM

all that training and naruto still can't do rasengan without a shadow clone?

Yeah thats what i was thinking, still a good episode though. The animations were alright, and if you're are going to draw out the Naruto and Sakura vs. Kakashi fight atleast include more action.

i also can't wait for the Gaara fight.

mage

Thu, 02-22-2007, 08:28 PM

SD cut the history lesson of the Akatsuki at the end. I hope Dattebayo doesn't do the same. SD also replayed the 1000 years part for some reason. Bad editing? I also question them translating "sugoi" into "definitely." It should be more like amazing or awesome. Even though it was said calmly.
1000 years of pain was cut off for a commercial, then afterwards they just picked up slightly before the commercial (it's like this originally). Personally, I would have edited it. They are a speed sub, though.

I thought the episode was good. It seems like they only added those flashbacks in order to end the episode on a cliff hanger with Gaara (Bleach is doing the same thing every episode now as well). It's slightly annoying and hopefully they won't do this much more.

My only other gripes are the fact that they used such good music for the first time on some lame battle like Naruto/Sakura vs Kakashi. The animation wasn't exactly stellar, either.

Main point is that naruto and sakura are fighting evenly with kakashi without using any of their more advanced techniques and keeping him on his toes.
They definitely aren't fighting evenly with him. All Kakashi has done is throw shurikens and punch kage bunshins. He could kill them at any moment if he wanted.

Assertn

Thu, 02-22-2007, 08:39 PM

I thought it was interesting to actually see kakashi use, you know, a copied jutsu.

HyourinMaru-

Thu, 02-22-2007, 08:43 PM

downloading...

cant wait to see the anime... and comment for it! :)

redcat

Thu, 02-22-2007, 09:49 PM

Now out by DB

http://yhbt.mine.nu/t/ns003.torrent

Danad_corps

Thu, 02-22-2007, 09:53 PM

i sense a rivalry between SD and DB! so far SD has had the jump on DB (although last time SD cut out the last 2 or 3 minutes)

HyourinMaru-

Thu, 02-22-2007, 10:51 PM

damn... and here i thought Ep. 3 was nice to watch since it was the fruits of their training. .... gosh... dont you think the story is a bit dragging? we dont see much of some action... maybe i was just expecting too much

Skaw

Thu, 02-22-2007, 11:07 PM

Assertn

Thu, 02-22-2007, 11:43 PM

too early to have sprinkles of slowdown.

Kagemane_no_Jutsu

Thu, 02-22-2007, 11:46 PM

too early to have sprinkles of slowdown.

yea they need to get on the grind and move everything along as quick as possible now

Yukimura

Thu, 02-22-2007, 11:56 PM

A lot of things in this ep felt like they were going in slow motion. I didn't feel much excitement when the characters took action (even the actions I wasn't expecting like Sakura punching through trees and Naruto rasenganing through trees...poor trees). The sand stuff was somewhat more interesting, but still it felt like the ep was running through molasses.

mage

Thu, 02-22-2007, 11:57 PM

It's because of the flashbacks of their first bell training. That totally ruined it.

darkmetal505

Fri, 02-23-2007, 12:24 AM

What happend to the sexy animation? I'm not going to complain, after all, it can't be perfect. Did Deidara and Sasori walk through the slit in the outer barrier in the manga? I think Deidara made the bird before he entered.

Danad_corps

Fri, 02-23-2007, 01:00 AM

Even if this ep was running through molasses, its better than anything we've watched for the past 2 years of Naruto. Would you rather have everything go fast paced with lots of excitement for a short while or would you rather have everything go at a slow pace with a little excitement here and there for a long time to come. I'd rather have a slow-moving, good storyline than a fast-moving story with a script that I would find in a kindergartener's imagination.

deadlydreamx

Fri, 02-23-2007, 01:43 AM

did anyone else notice the inconsistancy at the very begining? you see kakashi standing with his protector over his eye and then 2 secs later he has it off.. n the animation wasnt as good as others have said.. but as stated i prefer it to go slow and keep a good distance from the fillers as much as possible

LobsterMagnet

Fri, 02-23-2007, 01:48 AM

Surprised there's so much bitching about it. I guess the cock tease of what's to come outweighed the expected results of the current execution.

Honestly I didn't think it was that bad. Again I'll take stretched-out manga content over filler any day.

I guess the sheer badassiddy of the Sauske reappearance/cocktease got peoples expectations up to astronomical levels. I'm sure they'll be able to deliver when the times comes (especially in the next episode).

JaySee

Fri, 02-23-2007, 03:38 AM

Did anyone else anticipate the light sabre sound when Sasori and Deidara were walking through the wall with Star Wars music? Not to mention when Kakashi starts doing is taijutsu.

Then there's the Lord of the Rings music when Sakura shows her strength.

Idealistic

Fri, 02-23-2007, 04:29 AM

DarthEnderX

Fri, 02-23-2007, 06:06 AM

I thought it was interesting to actually see kakashi use, you know, a copied jutsu.I think it would have been more interesting if out of the 1000 techniques he's copied he'd show one that wasn't one of the 20 we've already seen.

So far, nobody has done anything new. They've only shown how they've improved at really basic stuff. Unless you count Sakura's strength(which we all knew was coming from a long way off, also, I'm glad they finally explained how it's done and that it's not actually physical strength)

So until someone actually uses a NEW skill, and not just improved taijutsu and replacement techniques...this fight is just kinda boring. I'm hoping they got the rehash out of the way this episode so next episode can actually be interesting.

That said, the music totally rocked. I can't wait to hear them played again in actual important situations. I can almost picture what old songs each of the new songs is supposed to replace.

masamuneehs

Fri, 02-23-2007, 06:47 AM

well i liked it. Getting to know Deidara was the best part of the episode. never saw the symbol from his forehead protector before... his jutsu are strange. i wonder if it's a summon, or some kind of blood-line maybe. looking forward to him and gaara having a little showdown

the animation was, well, a little bit down from last time. don't suppose it'd be fair to expect the opposite...

i too got tired of all the flashbacks... was quite a bit of recap as well for events that'd happened last time and in this very episode itself.

SD gives little explanations of words, phrases and jutsus, and then sticks with the common text spelling in Japanese. I sort of like this, but I can imagine how most people would want the explicit translations.... Anyone who has compared them both have an opinion on which is more accurate? I know last time DB's seemed a little inferior.

edit - hm... SD excluding segments from the end of the episode? I don't like that...

StillAlive

Fri, 02-23-2007, 06:59 AM

Does anyone else think the formerly useless Sakura could beat Naruto in a 1v1 fight? I mean Naruto doesn't fall for every dumb trick anymore and has improved his more basic skills - but Sakura's seems to be way more effective with her bare hands than Naruto with his rasengan. And it looks like she troubles Kakashi far more than Naruto... :confused:
Hopefully Naruto won't fight on with the same ol' tactics - the fillers made them more than a pain in the ass!

*Kage Bunshin no Jutsu* *RASEEEEENGAAAAAN*

The flashbacks didn't bother me too much and the music is great.

AceAlpha

Fri, 02-23-2007, 08:27 AM

Another great epsidode, with awsome music.

Kraco

Fri, 02-23-2007, 09:22 AM

Does anyone else think the formerly useless Sakura could beat Naruto in a 1v1 fight?

She's beating him all the time... And honestly I'm far from sure how it would end up in a "real" fight. I can't really see Naruto wanting to fight seriously against Sakura. Especially Sakura. While it would be insulting towards Sakura not to fight seriously (considering how Tsunade has turned her into a mini-Tsunade monster), Naruto might still remember too well the times when she was but a cry-baby Sakura needing all the protection Naruto and Sasuke could grant her.

And besides, this fight so far has been quite unimpressive. Like has been said, there have been no new techniques. And moreover, Kakashi hasn't been serious at all. I guess what he's doing is granting Naruto and Sakura chances and openings so that they can display their attack tactics. Still, that doesn't actually really demonstrate real battle abilities, because in real fights also the opponent will do his utmost to strike back or even strike first.

Well, other than that, this episode was pretty good. I especially liked the Sand parts. The Sand regular ninjas don't seem too skilled based on this, but now that Gaara made an appearances, I reckon those Akatsuki fellows will have their hands full fighting back. Deidara should be happy, though, that Temari isn't home. She could probably get the bird out of sky fast enough... Now Sand AA capabilities might be lesser.

Terracosmo

Fri, 02-23-2007, 09:41 AM

You guys are complete bitches. There was absolutely nothing wrong with this episode. Slow pacing, so what, it's not like Naruto was ever the fastest show. Complaints about the animation? lol, yeah, big surprise that the first episode (or should I say the first and second) had superior animation, not like every show ever has that. This was still LEAGUES and LEAGUES better than filler animation. Also we got to see Deidara in action (sort of) FINALLY since he also happens to be my favorite akatsuki.

I don't get you guys. Seriously, some of you even watched the fillers so you should be like me and orgasm over every second instead of being angsty about there not happening enough things. I'm glad they drag things out as opposed to stressing through it, that will only give us more fillers even sooner.

That being said I hate cliffhangers and I want next episode NOOOW but that's how I'm supposed to feel right? What good is a show you don't look forward to the next episode of?

masamuneehs

Fri, 02-23-2007, 10:41 AM

You guys are complete bitches.

suppose this is a pretty nasty reception episode 3's gotten so far. i did enjoy it, don't get me wrong there. but naturally people are going to be a little let down after how awesome the first/second episode(s) were. it's like eating pure sugar and then having a piece of cake immediately afterwards; the cake is just as good as ever, but by comparison your tongue tells your mind that it was bland.

but, turning to happier things...

Sakura sure has developed quite a bit. Actually utilizing her chakra control in combat is a great step forward for her. It'd be interesting if she tried some Genjutsu on Kakashi. Naruto is still stupid at times, but he's using that, and his history with Kakashi, to his advantage. Some of Naruto's best moments have been when he appears to have fucked up, but to have a clone hidden nearby or his actual self preparing some kind of attack. His idiocy is a natural presentation for pulling off successful feints. One on one, I'd say Sakura wins (Naruto just couldn't go all out against her), but we still know he's more powerful, making up for even his stupidity.

Deidara's Art Jutsus seem to be made from that mouth on his hand, and whatever is in the bag. I wonder what the actual properties of those forms are. Do they disappear as easily as Shadow/Water Clones? Or can they take some hits? It looks like they're infused with his chakra, so i'd imagine they have a limited amount inside them.

oh, and nobody has mentioned the fact that Deidara employed some pretty high tech equipment when he was scoping out the Sand Village. The level of technology in Naruto has always been a sort of gray area, but i think it's cool to allow some modern gadgetry to come into play every now and then. thoughts?

Mr. Roboto

Fri, 02-23-2007, 11:23 AM

LobsterMagnet

Fri, 02-23-2007, 11:36 AM

I'm pretty sure the symbol on his forehead is a rock since he's from the rock village.

Dark Dragon

Fri, 02-23-2007, 11:59 AM

Naruto: Shippuuden start is roughly chapter 245 in the manga and the manga is currently at 342. If they were to go at a normal pace instead of stretching things out there might be enough content to cover about 70 episode, if you consider the manga chapter to episode ratio for the first season and if you count in the new manga chapters that would've came out by that time, we might have enough materials for about ~100 episode b4 the anime get caught up to the manga again.

so in short, i prefer for them to stretch things out a bit so we don't have to go back to 2 year of filler again.

Yukimura

Fri, 02-23-2007, 12:06 PM

It seems like the Narutardness genes only laid dormant during the fillers, and are even now indirectly drawing power from them now that their over. Just because the episodes aren't fillers doesn't mean they are good by default. And the claim that 'at least it's not more filler' shouldn't matter, since the quality of one episode is not actually made better by the previous episodes being terrible. Now I know my words are empty and meaningless next to the glory of having the true work of our precious Kishimotot on the small screen again, but still, he's not perfect, and sometimes he even does retarded things that don't make sense (Chouji).

XanBcoo

Fri, 02-23-2007, 12:42 PM

Wow...so many flashbacks. And yeah, I agree that everything felt like it was going in slow motion. There was absolutely no tension in the episode, stuff just kinda...happened. On the other hand, I saw no problems with the animation. None of it was particularly lazy animation, and the actual fight scenes were pretty fluid. I don't get it. Why are people complaining?

Anyway, as for the content itself: I loved it regardless of pacing. The new Akatsuki guy Deidara is great, creating clay spider-bomb things and ranting about art. And Gaara, finally doing something after spending 2 episodes sitting quietly, shifting his eyes around...

I'm not sure I like how Sakura and Tsunade's strength really isn't physical strength at all. Basically anyone with good enough chakra control can become super strong now. That kinda makes it less amazing in my opinion. I do like how she's improved, however. Both her and Naruto have definitely gotten stronger, and that's promising.

Deidara's Art Jutsus seem to be made from that mouth on his hand, and whatever is in the bag. I wonder what the actual properties of those forms are.
I assumed they were made out of gunpowder until I remembered that guns don't exist in the Naruto universe. Funny that they have this substance with explosive properties, but have never actually used it.

Terracosmo

Fri, 02-23-2007, 01:03 PM

Well I dunno, maybe it's just my Deidara fandom which clouds my judgement but I honestly didn't find this worse or slower than the average Naruto episode. Flashbacks galore is one of the primary staples of the show after all. :S

Assertn

Fri, 02-23-2007, 01:16 PM

Despite all the bad rap for only seeing old jutsus from Naruto and Sakura, I always thought the beginning part where Naruto and Kakashi threw shuriken at each other > Naruto clones to dodge > Naruto henges into windmill shuriken > Kakashi grabs shuriken > another Naruto appears behind was one of my favorite short battle sequences in the series when they first did it in the manga.

JaySee

Fri, 02-23-2007, 02:19 PM

I assumed they were made out of gunpowder until I remembered that guns don't exist in the Naruto universe. Funny that they have this substance with explosive properties, but have never actually used it.

Just because there are no guns, doesn't mean no gunpowder. Gunpowder was around a LONG TIME before a gun was ever made. There ARE fireworks in Naruto.

Mr. Roboto

Fri, 02-23-2007, 04:05 PM

I'm pretty sure the symbol on his forehead is a rock since he's from the rock village.

oops, guess my guess was wrong.

DarthEnderX

Fri, 02-23-2007, 04:28 PM

Assertn

Fri, 02-23-2007, 04:55 PM

Sakura had more room for improvement than the others =P

When did they ever say Deidara is from the stone village, btw?

LobsterMagnet

Fri, 02-23-2007, 05:02 PM

It's never been directly stated but there have been more then a few times where we've gotten to directly take a look at his forehead protector and you can plainly see it's the stone village symbol.

Narasho

Fri, 02-23-2007, 06:42 PM

I do think that right now, Sakura seems to have improved way more than Naruto. I think that, unless Naruto shows us some new shit, that unless he uses the fox, Sakura could take him in a fight. And that's not even taking into account the fact that Sakura can heal shit.

Sakura may have improved way more than Naruto, but don't forget how utterly worthless she was before. I find it very hard to believe that she has surpassed Naruto - and based on what we have seen so far we have no way of really knowing, so all of this is speculation obviously. That said, during the 2 and a half years that Naruto was off training with Jiraiya I have to believe he is stronger than Sakura. Just my own personal bias toward Jiraiya's skills and Naruto's willpower I suppose.

Flashbacks galore is one of the primary staples of the show after all. :S

I've always liked Naruto flashbacks, with a few exceptions. One: anything that flashes back to filler content obviously. Two: when they flashback to something that happened 5 minutes previous. (Zabuza vs Kakashi round one)

DB_Hunter

Fri, 02-23-2007, 07:51 PM

I thought they could have been a bit more creative with some of the moves they used. For instance, Naruto's Taju Kage Bunshin seemed wasted as always. I thought he was using the clones to tire out Kakashi, as he knows that the Sharingan drains him. That would show development, not just mindless charging. Its no different to what he did against Ebisu waaay back, or even Kimimaro. Bit dissapointing in that respect.

Other than that, music was good. Didn't like how they weaved two importent story threads like they did. I am looking forward to the Gaara fight though... I hope he kicks Deidara's ass, cos acts like a fool.

Finally, what's all this 'one-tails' thing about Shukaku? Are all the demons supposed to have tails? Do the tails signify the strength of the demon?

Narasho

Fri, 02-23-2007, 07:55 PM

Finally, what's all this 'one-tails' thing about Shukaku? Are all the demons supposed to have tails? Do the tails signify the strength of the demon?

Well, I think at some point they said kyuubi was the strongest of the demons, though I could be wrong. If kyuubi is the strongest, having nine tails, it would only make sense logically that the one tailed demon is the weakest.

DB_Hunter

Fri, 02-23-2007, 08:07 PM

So how does the strength of the demon affect the strength of the Jinchuruuki? I mean is Gaara say at this point naturally stronger than Naruto (minus Shukaku and Kyuubi)?

JaySee

Fri, 02-23-2007, 08:10 PM

It's hard to say at this point in terms of sheer strength, but Gaara is no doubt a far better ninja.

The demons are from Japanese legend. There are 9 of them with tails numbers. Kyuubi is considered the strongest.

DarthEnderX

Fri, 02-23-2007, 08:11 PM

I wonder if there are 9 tailed beasts then.

And then, isn't there also 9 members of Atatsuke?

I guess they all want to become...tailed beast carriers.

Narasho

Fri, 02-23-2007, 08:12 PM

So how does the strength of the demon affect the strength of the Jinchuruuki? I mean is Gaara say at this point naturally stronger than Naruto (minus Shukaku and Kyuubi)?

I would say that Gaara has more talent than Naruto (However - I believe Naruto has alot more talent than most give him credit for), though Gaara may have just had better training, he seemed to have much better techniques than Naruto. (or maybe he just knew how to channel the power of his demon better than Naruto)

*EDIT*

I wonder if there are 9 tailed beasts then.

And then, isn't there also 9 members of Atatsuke?

I guess they all want to become...tailed beast carriers.

That's an interesting idea. One problem with it: didn't there used to be 10 Akatsuki members, then Orochimaru left the organization? Or maybe he left when Itachi joined.

Also, it seems to me that Akatsuki are the strongest force that there is. Why would they need the demons to increase their power further? I think there must be some other reason for them wanting the power.

StillAlive

Fri, 02-23-2007, 09:04 PM

That's an interesting idea. One problem with it: didn't there used to be 10 Akatsuki members, then Orochimaru left the organization?

Maybe the other 9 Akatsuki didn't want Orochimaru to get hold of one of these demons so he left the group blubbering and offended like:
"No you won't become Hokage Oro."
- "Ok. Then I'm going to destroy the village, meanie!" :D

Btw I didn't mentioned in my previous post that Sakura saying "I found you" to Kakashi was pretty cool - reminds of one of the first Bleach episodes :cool:

fifafreak18

Fri, 02-23-2007, 09:05 PM

Also, it seems to me that Akatsuki are the strongest force that there is. Why would they need the demons to increase their power further?

Those who have power just want more. That would be a really interesting, but are their 9 demons in the Naruto world? if their are why haven't we heard of the others?

But yes Gaara is a better ninja than Naruto but Kyuubi is far more powerful than shukaku.

Narasho

Fri, 02-23-2007, 09:55 PM

Maybe the other 9 Akatsuki didn't want Orochimaru to get hold of one of these demons so he left the group blubbering and offended like:
"No you won't become Hokage Oro."
- "Ok. Then I'm going to destroy the village, meanie!"

I know this was mostly meant as a joke, but the reason Orochimaru left the group was because he realized he could not get Itachi. At least that's what I remember him saying to Kabuto. I don't remember the episode.

DB_Hunter

Fri, 02-23-2007, 10:19 PM

So what he joined Akatsuki to get Itachi? In that case what was the leader of Akatsuki (whoever that is) doing letting someone like Oro join his group?

DarthEnderX

Fri, 02-23-2007, 10:37 PM

Also, it seems to me that Akatsuki are the strongest force that there is. Why would they need the demons to increase their power further? I think there must be some other reason for them wanting the power.While they are certainly the most powerful force we've seen, they aren't nessecarily the most powerful ninjas in the world. Who knows what else the naruto world has that hasn't been introduced yet? Ninja's from beyond the 5 countries, demon ninjas, ninja pirates, superpowerful badguys that aren't even ninjas.

Terracosmo

Fri, 02-23-2007, 10:59 PM

I rewatched the episode (and also saw the Deidara scenes an additional 10-ish times! "Art... is a blast!" - bitch!) and I guess when I think about it I can see why some people were annoyed. Also I found it strange that so many scenes lacked music. There was like this weird silence going on.. maybe it's just me...

darkshadow

Fri, 02-23-2007, 11:16 PM

I liked this ep, but to many ppl bitch about the animation and such, the animation was still very good ( i think most of you people mean the art ).
I watched kakashi using taijutsu like a million times, and it still feels great, prolly one of my favorite fights in all of naruto so far.

Also i thought the tailed beast were from Chinese folklore brought to japan or something?
1-9 tail has nothing do with it's power, 8 tails is just as strong as 9 tails, and 5 tails doesnt even have .... well tails ( well im not sure if it was 5 tails or not, 1 of them didn't have tails).

Narasho

Fri, 02-23-2007, 11:19 PM

So what he joined Akatsuki to get Itachi? In that case what was the leader of Akatsuki (whoever that is) doing letting someone like Oro join his group?

As far as I know, Orochimaru was in Akatsuki before Itachi, when Itachi joined or shortly thereafter Orochimaru left. Or maybe they both joined at the same time, but i'm pretty sure Orochimaru joined before Itachi.

*EDIT*
I just looked for the episode where Orochimaru mentions how he originally wanted Itachi. It's episode 81 at 7:38 approx. The context is right after his failed destruction of Konoha: "If I could've gotten ahold of Uchiha Itachi to begin with, there would not have been a problem. But that is an impossible dream now. He is stronger than me! That's why I left that organization." Then, in episode 135 right before That Which We Do Not Speak of (2 years of fillers) an Akatsuki member (the leader?) mentions Orochimaru leaving the group: "The last time that we all gathered like this, was seven years ago, when Orochimaru left the group."

So, I couldn't find anything that specified whether or not he left it right as Itachi joined, but I would think that Itachi would've joined about 7 years before this, right after murdering his clan and abandoning Konoha. I guess that's what I had put together before. I think it's clear that he didn't join Akatsuki to get Itachi though, since he left it 7 years prior.

Also i thought the tailed beast were from Chinese folklore brought to japan or something?
1-9 tail has nothing do with it's power, 8 tails is just as strong as 9 tails, and 5 tails doesnt even have .... well tails ( well im not sure if it was 5 tails or not, 1 of them didn't have tails).

9 tails is immortality in Japanese folklore. Anything less than 9 is mortal. I don't know what relevance that has to the nine-tailed fox, though.

darkshadow

Fri, 02-23-2007, 11:40 PM

The relevance is that the 9tailed fox has unlimited power, just like in the folklore, this is how it bested 8tails, it grew tired.

Deadfire

Fri, 02-23-2007, 11:48 PM

Also i thought the tailed beast were from Chinese folklore brought to japan or something?
1-9 tail has nothing do with it's power, 8 tails is just as strong as 9 tails, and 5 tails doesnt even have .... well tails ( well im not sure if it was 5 tails or not, 1 of them didn't have tails).

According to some fans, the "Legend of the Tailed Beasts" is an epic story from Japanese mythology which Naruto author Masashi Kishimoto draws from to create the tailed beasts in his work. It appears, however, to be an example of internet-based fakelore which originated on the Chinese internet.

The veracity of the legend breaks when it is cross-referenced with non-fandom sources on Japanese folklore. For example, the isonade, which is held to be the three-tailed beast in this account, is in fact equipped with only one large, hook-covered tail, and the "houkou" (actually a Chinese creature called penghou), named as the five-tailed beast, has no tail at all.

The whole thing about this is confusing to say the least but you are correct in your thinking

Mizuchi

Sat, 02-24-2007, 12:10 AM

LobsterMagnet

Sat, 02-24-2007, 12:26 AM

Hey I was just wondering is the guy whose composing the new Shipuudden music the same composer who created the tracks for the original series?

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Sat, 02-24-2007, 01:44 AM

Wow...and I thought that the fillers were over. Seems like they put alot of unnecessary stuff in this ep that didnt need to be there. Alas, I am glad to see some new semi-manga driven activity. So lets see some Explosions in the Sand! And I did see the rock symbol on that guys head band. So I am thinking that it is Rock! Rock Rock! -dg-

Assassin

Sat, 02-24-2007, 02:07 AM

If sakura can quickly destroy ground and punch through tree without having to make a clone and increase her power level like naruto, doesn't that make rasengan pretty much useless? Unless naruto has increased its power and can destroy cities with one blast..

thats like saying, "if you can use a sword to stab some guy in the heart, doesn't it make chidori a useless assassination jutsu?"

Just because you can do something 2 different ways doesn't make any one way more or less useless then the other. the super strength is usefull overall, and it fits sakura cuz shes an average ninja. shes not super quick like lee and doesnt have chakra blocking powers like neji, so being able to break someones skull is a handy trick. As for naruto, he has his limitless chakra which means he can use jutsu's freely, so he doesn't need super strength. instead of one punch that feels like a thousand punches, he can actually deliver 1000 punches. and if those punches just happen to make the opponents stomach explode, all the better for him.

p0ltergeist

Sat, 02-24-2007, 03:26 AM

I don't like people defending this episode "just because it's not filler". It should be pointed out that three quarters of this episode was either a flashback to episode 5, or completely made up. Very little of this episode actually came from the Naruto Part 2 Manga. In fact I just checked, and there were only about 12 or 13 pages of manga used in this episode.

Kraco

Sat, 02-24-2007, 03:31 AM

So what he joined Akatsuki to get Itachi? In that case what was the leader of Akatsuki (whoever that is) doing letting someone like Oro join his group?

Does Akatsuki have a leader? I thought it was a gathering of more or less equal people seeking a common goal (whatever it might be).

Danad_corps

Sat, 02-24-2007, 04:20 AM

Thats what i thought too. However, whenever there are powerful people combined there is always someone who tries to take control. There may not be a leader in all senses of the word, but there could be someone whose opinion is valued more than another's and therefore gets things on his agenda done sooner than the others. I think them having a leader would take away from their "coolness." Right now they are a bunch of bad-asses who do almost whatever they want b/c they are so damn strong. If they had a leader, then they would all just be strong pussies who do what the "man-in-charge" tells them to do. At least thats how i see it.

DarthEnderX

Sat, 02-24-2007, 04:29 AM

Psyke

Sat, 02-24-2007, 06:33 AM

I enjoyed this episode a lot, and I thought the flash backs were great and didn't feel that it was draggy at all. The new stuff not in the manga was a real bonus too. On the whole I'm just really glad that the anime is back on track once more, and I'm looking forward to the next episode.

DB_Hunter

Sat, 02-24-2007, 09:52 AM

I don't think having a leader would take away their "coolness". Infact I would say you need one as a necessaty, since you need to be able to direct such a gathering of power for a specific purpose. Otherwise they could always be arguing and never get anything done.

This doesn't mean that the leader is the most powerful one or something. Remeber being leader doesn't mean its all glamourous, you have to be able to tend to admin type crap also (though I can't quite think of what kind of admin would be required by Akatsuki).

p0ltergeist

Sat, 02-24-2007, 10:32 AM

Well I believe the density of the flashbacks is only high right now because it's so convenient to do so. We have a re-match of the bells contest, so I guess it's only natural. I for one, would expect there to be less of the flashbacks in the future.

Kraco

Sat, 02-24-2007, 10:55 AM

Infact I would say you need one as a necessaty, since you need to be able to direct such a gathering of power for a specific purpose. Otherwise they could always be arguing and never get anything done.

We don't actually yet know the purpose, so we don't know how complicated or simple it is. From what we have seen so far, the Akatsuki dudes are just moving around in pairs doing little things, if anything at all, like observing Naruto and performing a half-hearted attempt to kidnap him. So, if their ultimate goal is pretty simple as well, they don't really need a leader to coordinate things. In fact, not having a leader would ensure they wouldn't fight so much with each other, because nobody would (seriously) think he should be the leader and somebody else not. No power struggle, that is. And simple things can be agreed on whenever they have their meetings.

Well, like I said, that of course assumes whatever they are doing isn't so complicated it would require a leader.

XanBcoo

Sat, 02-24-2007, 11:25 AM

thats like saying, "if you can use a sword to stab some guy in the heart, doesn't it make chidori a useless assassination jutsu?"

Just because you can do something 2 different ways doesn't make any one way more or less useless then the other. the super strength is usefull overall, and it fits sakura cuz shes an average ninja. shes not super quick like lee and doesnt have chakra blocking powers like neji, so being able to break someones skull is a handy trick. As for naruto, he has his limitless chakra which means he can use jutsu's freely, so he doesn't need super strength. instead of one punch that feels like a thousand punches, he can actually deliver 1000 punches. and if those punches just happen to make the opponents stomach explode, all the better for him.
I think, for once, I agree with Mizuchi.

The whole attack-by-forcing-lots-of-chakra-into-your-hand thing has gotten ridiculous. It was a novel concept when it was introduced with Chidori, but now that Naruto and Sakura can do the exact same thing, just in different ways, I'm seeing a serious lack of originality. Perhaps I'm not thinking this through, but I honestly see no reason why Naruto should try so hard to make an enemy spin around, when he could just cripple them in one hit. Your 1000 punches thing makes no sense to me because Sakura's attacks and Rasengan are one in the same. They have the same effect, delivering a powerful hit by forcing chakra into the hand. Rasengan just has the added bonus of making the enemy...spin (also the extra effort on Naruto's part to actually create the thing using a Shadow Clone). Unless he has found some way to improve it (perhaps making it more explosive, or even finding a way to make it a projectile attack), then Naruto is just wasting time by making the Rasengan when he could just quickly punch using the exact same amount of chakra. Same force, similar effect, quicker execution.

I do agree however that Rasengan has its uses. There might be a case when he would need to use it to break through a field of chakra (like against the Chidori, or something), or use it as Jiraiya did the first time as a non-lethal attack. And when I actually think about it, that's pretty much the only times he's used it in the anime that haven't been filler material. So I guess I'm really just complaining about how the fillers have ruined the Rasengan, making it nothing more than a flashy punch.

Edit: I also agree with Kraco. It never occured to me that Akatsuki had a "leader" and I don't think they'd ever operate under one simply because of their rogue nature. The fact that there's 9 just means that someone's walking around without a partner - perhaps due to Oro's leaving of the group.

Dark Dragon

Sat, 02-24-2007, 12:08 PM

DarthEnderX

Sat, 02-24-2007, 12:44 PM

Yeah, I'm a little dissapointed in how sakura's strength works. As a medical ninja it would have made sense if she was using her perfect chakra control to strenghthen her muscles instead. Doing it for just an instant for maximum strength but not so much that it damages her muscles like Lee does when he opens the gates.

Genma

Sat, 02-24-2007, 12:52 PM

This episode was pure garbage. It really makes me realize how much better the manga is in comparison to the anime.

The animation was terrible, the dusk shading burned my eyes, the filler parts were irritating, and a lot of the characters looked super retarded. Sakura looked like a duck and Gaara... oh jesus, I can't even describe how messed up he looks.

To top that all off, Deidara's voice actor doesn't really fit to what I expected. It should be more feminine or something, not some husky voice saying "oooh I love art." The Star Wars music is almost too funny to be true as well.

I can't take this anime seriously right now. In my opinion, they're basically just butchering a good manga and it's Rurouni Kenshin all over again -- just fifty times worse.

If you think otherwise, you either don't read the manga or you've been brainwashed by years of even shittier fillers.

Hopefully next week won't suck as bad.

darkshadow

Sat, 02-24-2007, 12:52 PM

@ darthender
Err... that's exactly what she does >_>...

Narasho

Sat, 02-24-2007, 01:25 PM

Another possibility is that Atatsuke was made of of 9 of the most powerful criminals who were determined to get tailed beasts. And that Orochimaru was the weakest person in the group.

Then Itachi shows up and Atatsuke is all, "Well, there's 10 of us now and Oro, you're the weakest, so no tailed beast for you."

I find it very hard to believe that all 9 members of Akatsuki are stronger than Orochimaru. I'd guess he would be in the middle in terms of power, (this is completely guesswork) he himself said Itachi was stronger than him, but I think Itachi is probably one of the stronger members of Akatsuki. Or at least in the top half.

Does Akatsuki have a leader? I thought it was a gathering of more or less equal people seeking a common goal (whatever it might be).

I guess I always assumed because they traveled in pairs but there were 9 of them that the 9th guy was the leader. (Maybe that guy used to travel with Orochimaru) Then there was that guy who told everyone to go finish their missions in the next 2 and a half years, who I assumed to be the leader.

Midnight

Sat, 02-24-2007, 03:30 PM

The animation in this episode was pretty good. But otherwise, it pretty much sucked. There were too many flashbacks. It was also pretty stupid to bring up that sasuke illusion.

Assertn

Sat, 02-24-2007, 04:09 PM

1) Gaara aka "one tail" and Naruto aka "nine tails"....
It's pretty much unanymous that kyubi would be stronger than shukaku, but yes Gaara is probably much stronger than Naruto. I don't think this necessarily has anything to do with training (because well, who could train Gaara to control his sand?). This has to do with the type of seals they have for their demons. Gaara's seal grants his demon greater access to him, thus allowing for the passive defense and instinctive sand control. Naruto's demon has like, practically no access to Naruto except in times of vulnerability, whether it be extreme emotion or serious injury.

2) Strength vs Rasengan....
Under normal circumstances, you should be able to defeat an enemy just as easily with a kunai as with any of the advanced assassination jutsus, however there are circumstances where sheer power is needed. When Tsunade fought Kabuto and Oro, would her punch have been able to inflict as much damage to Kabuto as Naruto's rasengan did? The rasengan does more than just break some bones, it's like a hollow-point shell, where upon impact it expands and inflicts massive area damage throughout the enemy's body.

3) Oro's strength among Akatsuki....
I think Oro could take Kisame.

DarthEnderX

Sat, 02-24-2007, 04:52 PM

I find it very hard to believe that all 9 members of Akatsuki are stronger than Orochimaru. Yeah, I do too. But wouldn't it be awsome if they were!

BananaFob

Sat, 02-24-2007, 05:50 PM

Maybe not, DarthEnder, that would make them overpowered. If Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru, then when Itachi and Kisame entered Konoha, they would have been able to kill everyone at that time except for maybe Jiraiya because when Orochimaru invaded Konoha, he needed the support of his Sound ninja to help him.

I found the episode to be quite a tease though. Nothing great happened, and those flashbacks really do prove that Naruto might be changing "nostalgic-dattebayo!" as his new phrase.

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Sat, 02-24-2007, 06:27 PM

[QUOTE=AssertnFailure]1) Gaara aka "one tail" and Naruto aka "nine tails"....
It's pretty much unanymous that kyubi would be stronger than shukaku, but yes Gaara is probably much stronger than Naruto. I don't think this necessarily has anything to do with training (because well, who could train Gaara to control his sand?). This has to do with the type of seals they have for their demons. Gaara's seal grants his demon greater access to him, thus allowing for the passive defense and instinctive sand control. Naruto's demon has like, practically no access to Naruto except in times of vulnerability, whether it be extreme emotion or serious injury.

If this is the case and the tails represent the strength, then how do they choose who gets what? Does the leader get the nine tails and it go down in rank from there? Or did they pull names from a hat? -dg-

XanBcoo

Sat, 02-24-2007, 06:49 PM

ok so here are the 3 technique
Chidori: require decent amount of chakra and fast moving speed(something naruto and sakura both lack) because unlike the Rasengan and Sakura Punch the Chidori is a piercing stab rather than a really powerful hit, it wouldn't be very effective if you can't execute it at an extremely high speed.
Rasengan: require a huge amount of chakra (sasuke and sakura doesn't have this) and very good chakra control in order to execute.
Sakura Punch: require perfect chakra control (sasuke and naruto can't control it that well) in order to focus chakra at the exact point in your fist.

each of them learn a technique that benefit from their strong point, saying one is useless would be pointless because not everyone has perfect chakra control, a large pool of chakra or fast moving speed.

Ok...but, the Chidori doesn't actually require speed in every situation. Sasuke used it on Naruto while he was standing still, and still managed to impale him. It's just as effective when used as a simple jab, or punch. Same as Rasengan or Sakura's attack. All three do the same thing.

2) Strength vs Rasengan....
Under normal circumstances, you should be able to defeat an enemy just as easily with a kunai as with any of the advanced assassination jutsus, however there are circumstances where sheer power is needed. When Tsunade fought Kabuto and Oro, would her punch have been able to inflict as much damage to Kabuto as Naruto's rasengan did? The rasengan does more than just break some bones, it's like a hollow-point shell, where upon impact it expands and inflicts massive area damage throughout the enemy's body.
I see what you're saying, but ideally shouldn't either attack be a lethal blow? I guess I'm working under the assumption that when any ninja has a good window for attack, it wouldn't really matter which attack was used, as long as it kills or incapacitates the enemy. In which case, Naruto's use of the Rasengan (in the fillers at least) seems pretty useless since he already has the chakra control needed to focus it all in his hands.

Assertn

Sat, 02-24-2007, 07:27 PM

If this is the case and the tails represent the strength, then how do they choose who gets what? Does the leader get the nine tails and it go down in rank from there? Or did they pull names from a hat? -dg-
I'm not implying that the order of power for the demons is ranked by the number of tails, its just that the nine tails is known to be the strongest of them.

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Sat, 02-24-2007, 10:38 PM

I'm not implying that the order of power for the demons is ranked by the number of tails, its just that the nine tails is known to be the strongest of them.

Well you are implying that they are taking the stories of these creatures and using them exactly as they were told in folk tales. Which may not be the case, it may just has been a building ground for them to base the plot off of...what now biz? -dg-

Edit....Fine I do think that Nine tails is stronger than Shak....but still! MEANIE!

DB_Hunter

Sun, 02-25-2007, 12:14 AM

I'm going to have to disagree with you guys about Akatsuki not having a leader. It makes no sense to me for all these ninja's to come together and not have been pulled in by a specific call that originated from someone. I mean, does it really seem realistic that once Itachi left Konoha he saw some weird looking dudes dressed up in funky coates wandering around in pairs and thought to himself "hmm, just killed my clan, I could use the company and a new coat"?

No, I think Akatsuki has a leader and that leader has a specific objective. This is backed up by that ep where all the members are told by that one dude to go and complete their missions before the fillers started. What the objective is and who is the leader, I don't know as I don't read the manga. But it simply does not make sense to me for all these uber powerful ninjas to be all chummy with each other, especially as they are all criminals anyway.

As for the Oro being the weakest in Akatsuki, I don't think so. At the very least we have seen that he could at least take Kisame. I mean, Asuma was putting up a fight with him (although was not faring to well) and Kakashi was able to pretty much match Kisame at the very least. And we know that unless Kakashi has been training to get a lot stronger in the 2 and a half years that have passed, he is weaker than Oro.

Assassin

Sun, 02-25-2007, 02:36 AM

Ok...but, the Chidori doesn't actually require speed in every situation. Sasuke used it on Naruto while he was standing still, and still managed to impale him. It's just as effective when used as a simple jab, or punch. Same as Rasengan or Sakura's attack. All three do the same thing.

Not true. Rock Lee explained during the garaa/sasuke fight that the chidori is just a simple stab and can be easily countered. So it doesn't work as a simple jab or a punch. You need the speed in order to quickly inflict damage on the enemy, otherwise they can just dodge or counter. This is also why the sharingan is required to properly do the chidori, so one can see the opponents move as he tried to counter and adjust accordingly.

The rasengan and sakura's super strength can be used in combination with other jutsu's or taijutsu, but the chidori can't.

As for the leader, i also think that there is one man running akatsuki. However he's probably not a leader in a "im the guy in charge" sense like the kage's. Seems to me like hes the one who started the orginization like DB_Hunter said, and thats why the others listen to him. Its not that they're his subortnates, but rather hes the dude with the master plan, and they're following his lead for thier own benifit

Assertn

Sun, 02-25-2007, 03:44 AM

Not true. Rock Lee explained during the garaa/sasuke fight that the chidori is just a simple stab and can be easily countered. So it doesn't work as a simple jab or a punch. You need the speed in order to quickly inflict damage on the enemy, otherwise they can just dodge or counter. This is also why the sharingan is required to properly do the chidori, so one can see the opponents move as he tried to counter and adjust accordingly.
No, lee said that the head-on dash IS what makes the chidori easy to counter.

Kraco

Sun, 02-25-2007, 03:54 AM

As for the leader, i also think that there is one man running akatsuki. However he's probably not a leader in a "im the guy in charge" sense like the kage's. Seems to me like hes the one who started the orginization like DB_Hunter said, and thats why the others listen to him. Its not that they're his subortnates, but rather hes the dude with the master plan, and they're following his lead for thier own benifit.

Well, that seems quite reasonable and likely. After all, if they do have a solid plan they are following, no matter how simple, then it practically needs to have originated from the mind of one person. But like has been said, these people are renegades, who left their villages, so it's not likely they would just join another "village" with strict leadership.

Maybe not, DarthEnder, that would make them overpowered. If Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru, then when Itachi and Kisame entered Konoha, they would have been able to kill everyone at that time except for maybe Jiraiya because when Orochimaru invaded Konoha, he needed the support of his Sound ninja to help him.
That makes little sense. So, if somebody is stronger than Orochimaru, he would suddenly be so strong that he could take on the whole world all by himself? Ehheh. We have seen Itachi has one of these ultimate attacks, but we have also seen he gets tired pretty fast when using it. So, in practice it means he can defeat pretty much any single or few tough opponents (including Oro), but then he's too weak to really continue and must withdraw for his own good.

DayoftheDante

Sun, 02-25-2007, 06:02 AM

Yeah. Itachi could kill just about any SINGLE character that has been introduced. But he's not geared for mass devastation, he's like the perfect assassin. You throw enough bodies at him at once, he's gonna die. The Jinchuuriki on the other hand, are walking nuclear weapons. It's the reason Orochimaru wanted Gaara to go apeshit during his attack on Konoha, one of several layers of attacks that he put together knowing that some were bound to fail. The chakra control part of Orochimaru's summons were never clearly explained. But including those, plus Manda, his own attacks, and his ability to deceive followers, he's better suited to fighting droves of people.

As damaging as Sakura's hits appear to be, remember that they utilize her limited chakra pool. How much of Naruto's chakra do you think he's utilizing for each rasengan? Sakura's attacks have a much lower damage ceiling than what the rasengan is gonna do.

I'm so happy to be looking forward to episodes again.

Kraco

Sun, 02-25-2007, 06:33 AM

I don't actually right away remember any indication of how much chakra an average rasengan will consume. We saw Naruto's training results when he was trying to master the technique in time to face Tsunade in the city of the fallen castle. And it looked like he had created rasengan hundreds of times. Not like Sasuke's few chidori per day. So, I would say rasengan consumes much less chakra than a chidori. Possibly less than Sakura's monster strength. It needs to be remember rasengan is highly controlled, unlike chidori which seems very chaotic. Chaotic force will annul some of its own power by interference. Much of rasengan's effect is due to the rotational energy which we can assume will save a lot of chakra, because it means less will depend solely on the mythical chakra energy itself to affect the target.

JaySee

Sun, 02-25-2007, 06:53 AM

Where is it said that Gaara's sand is linked with Shukaku? I don't think that's ever been said. Gaara DID however say the sand was a gift from his mother. Maybe it's his bloodline limit from his mother's side? Maybe that love symbol on his face is a seal for the sand?

The Kyuubi is the strongest because it's 9th, not because it has the most tails. 9 is the number for abundance.

DarthEnderX

Sun, 02-25-2007, 10:12 AM

You need to pay more attention because it's been said a million times.

The sand is Shukaku trying to protect its host, just like how Kyuubi regenerated Naruto. Because if Gaara dies, Shukaku dies.

The whole thing about the sand being Gaara's mother is just what Gaara thinks sometimes because Gaara is batshit insane.

And Gaara put that love symbol on his face himself. Seriously, you need to go back and watch Gaara's childhood flashbacks.

XanBcoo

Sun, 02-25-2007, 03:45 PM

No, I think Akatsuki has a leader and that leader has a specific objective. This is backed up by that ep where all the members are told by that one dude to go and complete their missions before the fillers started. What the objective is and who is the leader, I don't know as I don't read the manga. But it simply does not make sense to me for all these uber powerful ninjas to be all chummy with each other, especially as they are all criminals anyway
Y'know, if you actually watch the episode, you'll notice that their objective is stated and that no one member is telling the others to do anything. Going off of AonE's translation:

Member 1: Last time we met like this was 7 years ago when Oro left (implying they are a loosely organized group)

Then the others talk about Sasuke. And then:
Deidara: Don't rush things...hunnh. We only have 3 years. We'll kill Oro eventually. More importantly, will we all be able to complete our tasks? (tasks being the operative word. Again It's logical to assume from this that Akatsuki is a loosely organized group of rogue ninja acting independently, only with a common goal.)
Other member: Yes, our objective is to obtain them all, including Kyuubi. (No orders are given at all, he's simply affirming what Deidara asked and summarizing their objective, y'know...for the viewer)

So if you want to assume anyone is the leader, you'd have to assume it was Deidara, because he's was the only one speaking even remotely authoritatively in that conversation. I don't see where anyone is getting the idea that one member alone is giving out orders to the rest.

@Assassin: Like Assertn said, Rock noticed that Chidori could be countered easily because of the speed at which Sasuke was moving. It probably helps running while using Chidori, because as an assassination attack, it is loud and you'd want to move quickly and effectively, but we have actually seen Chidori being used on Naruto while Sasuke was standing still. The speed isn't required.

Narasho

Sun, 02-25-2007, 04:19 PM

Yeah. Itachi could kill just about any SINGLE character that has been introduced. But he's not geared for mass devastation, he's like the perfect assassin. You throw enough bodies at him at once, he's gonna die.

I disagree. In my opinion, Jiraiya could take out Itachi. Why do you think Itachi and Kisame ran away when they had a 2 on 1 advantage? Jiraiya may be stronger than even Orochimaru - though this is obviously speculation.

Kraco

Sun, 02-25-2007, 04:50 PM

Well, I still don't believe they have a leader in the sense he would actually have any power (ability to command the others), but if their objective is anything beyond just gathering the demons (maybe they want to found a zoo if it's not), then there should be one person who had the original idea for whatever they are ultimately planning. That person could have contacted another rogue and got him interested. And then they would have got more people to join, obviously having something in the plan that would benefit them all.

Or maybe they all just happened to meet in a bar, and got this brilliant idea after a few glasses...

Munsu

Sun, 02-25-2007, 04:52 PM

Not saying that your wrong, but the logic you used for your conclusions are worthless. You're saying that Jiraiya MAY be stronger than Orochimaru, but that he could take out Itachi, when it has been stated that Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru.

Kraco

Sun, 02-25-2007, 04:58 PM

Itachi and Kisame weren't planning to fight against Jiraiya. They had the diversion for that purpose. It's likely Itachi (and Kisame even less) doesn't know that much about Jiraiya's actual battle capabilities. They may just know the rumours. Their objective wasn't to fight against one of the legendary sannin, but just get Naruto. And as we learned, they were in absolutely no hurry to get Naruto back then. So, from a tactical point of view, it would have been pure and simple foolishness to fight against Jiraiya. Perhaps they could have won, but the cost could have been high indeed. And to be honest, Naruto now a few years later still wouldn't pose a problem for Itachi, so in that sense I don't think so much changed. They can act when Jiraiya or anyone else bothersome isn't nearby and the time is ripe.

XanBcoo

Sun, 02-25-2007, 05:18 PM

there should be one person who had the original idea for whatever they are ultimately planning. That person could have contacted another rogue and got him interested. And then they would have got more people to join, obviously having something in the plan that would benefit them all.
I'm guessing this is probably what happened, though it doesn't necessarily have to be one guy. Perhaps a couple of members (including Orochimaru maybe?) decided that they were fed up with their village and decided to start looking for the tailed demons. From then on out it was just an accretion process, adding all capable ninja to the newly formed organization as they came along. They probably paired themselves up in teams of two early on until Oro left, leaving 1 odd man out.

Or maybe they all just happened to meet in a bar, and got this brilliant idea after a few glasses...
This is also a hilarious possibility!

HyourinMaru-

Sun, 02-25-2007, 09:14 PM

Its not that Jiraiya could take out Itachi, and again.. Itachi and Kisame ran away from the fight since they would melt under the frog belly that Jiraiya summoned if they dont escape. and besides... looking at it.. Itachi pulled of his chakra to use and summon the mysterious black fire. not to mention he used mangekyou sharingan for that purpose and just as he said.. he used a lot of his chakra for that for purpose. so it would be very clear that itachi will loose to Jiraiya at that time... and Itachi is a wise ninja... he dont intend to kill himself just to have the jinchuuriki.. and that is my opinion.

with regards to Orochimaru, he might not be the weakest akatsuki afterall.. though he admitted that Itachi is stronger than he is... but that couldnt take out the fact that Orochimaru killed the third hokage himself. Itachi might kill the third also but remember that Orochimaru even summoned the 1st and the 2nd Hokage.. if not for Sarutobi's sealing jutsu he would have lost to Orochimaru easily.. so i guess Orochimaru is not the weakest...

darkshadow

Sun, 02-25-2007, 11:47 PM

Lost to oro easily? he only did the sealing cause it was the only way to take out the 2 kage's, if they didn't regenerate their lost limbs, Sandaime would've layed the smackdown on Oro, i don't think you noticed how Sandaime had to worry about 3 kage level opponents.

Everon

Mon, 02-26-2007, 01:05 AM

Look at strength as a relative, not an absolute term. Yes Itachi is strong, but after using Mangekou Sharingan his energy was drained. Not exactly the best condition to fight Jiraya.

So even if Orochimaru says that Itachi is even stronger than him, he's describing a 1 on 1 peak condition fight.

mage

Mon, 02-26-2007, 01:49 AM

Itachi and Kisame didn't run from Jiraiya because they feared his strength or something, it's because Itachi had already done Mangekyou AND Amaterasu. Kisame even mentions something along the lines of "Why are we running?" and Itachi says he needs to rest. Everyone should already know this as it was discussed ad nauseum in the past.

Genma

Mon, 02-26-2007, 12:44 PM

Once again, anything based on manga events yet to be covered in the actual series itself is spoiling. Discussion in the anime only forum is naturally limited by not knowing about the manga, but that's exactly why we have the Open Discussion area. If someone really wants to know info like this, they'll check there. If they just want to spitball speculate about it, they'll do it here.

Spoiler removed.

Consider this a verbal warning Genma. I know you meant well enough, but you've got to let people work within the system, even if it's frustrating for manga readers.
-masa

DAMN, THIS IS ABOUT THE TENTH TIME (literally) THAT THE TOPIC OF KISAME AND ITACHI RUNNING FROM ERO-SENNIN HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP. THERE IS NO DEFINITE ANSWER TO THIS!

Caps lock aside, I'm pretty sure there's a leader of Akatsuki. It's almost defienately not Deidara, first off, because why would the leader go out and do the dirty work when he could have others do it for him/her? Exactly.

Rather than run around in circles and argue it, though, just pick up the manga and read rather than watch this so-far-shitty anime adaptation.

Super5

Mon, 02-26-2007, 01:56 PM

I still don't like the person x > person y, so person z > person x because person z > person y argument. In other words, Jiraiya could beat Oro because Oro is afraid of Itachi and Itachi didn't want to fight Jiraiya. Such arguments are flawed on their face, because each individual fight would proceed much differently than the others. The situations are different, you can't say Oro without any preparation could beat the Third every time anymore than you can say Jiraiya could beat Itachi if Itachi was prepared to take him on.

Really, guys, I'm getting tired of these arguments. Also, Itachi is NOT INVINCIBLE. Even 1 on 1, he can not take out any random ninja in Konoha. Gai revealed the method to beat his magenkyou sharingan way back when they first came to Konoha: just don't look at his eyes, then he can't use his ultimate technique on you. Itachi is fast, but so are Gai and Kakashi, and probably other ninja that haven't even been introduced. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that "this person is stronger than that person" argument should be referenced to a certain situation or certain techniques in order to make the discussion worthwhile.

Chidori vs. Rasengan vs. Sakura: I still think these techniques are each unique, and not just the same thing. First off, they are quite different in basic terms of execution. Chidori is a jutsu, it requires hand seals and probably some skill at doing lightning jutsu. Naruto (and probably Sakura) could not do this jutsu, plain and simple. Speed helps its success, but isn't necessary. It also seems to require a lot of chakra, because it's not really concentrated - it turns your hand into a lightning scalpel.

Now look at Rasengan. It's not a jutsu, so it can be performed by anyone who can learn fine chakra control (Sakura could probably learn this technique if someone taught her). It's unknown how much chakra this takes, it could be as much or more than Chidori, but the effects are much more devastating. Witness the comparison in destruction achieved after the rooftop battle; Sasuke was pissed because he realized his technique was inferior. Rasengan might also have other uses besides killing, while chidori is basically an assassination jutsu.

And finally examine Sakura's technique. There is no visible chakra involved, so it seems to require less chakra than both Chidori and Rasengan. However, the destruction wrought was substantial. This technique might be less effective at penetrating defense and causing damage to people, but for tearing up the ground or punching through trees/walls it seems to be ideal (Tsunade heavily used it for this purpose during her fight with Kabuto). Sakura could probably use her punch many times while chidori and rasengan would drain your chakra very quickly. And anyone thoeretically could learn Tsunade's strength with enough training and discipline - mostly it requires chakra control, which any basic ninja has a foundation in.

The point I'm trying to make is that each technique has its own challenges for use, purposes for use, and not everyone can learn every technique. Chidori is probably the most specialized, with Rasengan next, and Sakura's punch the least specialized. So they are different techniques and not just the same thing over and over IMO.

I don't know why everyone's complaining about this episode. I thought it was good. A little slow, but what do you expect after 2+ years of filler? I'm glad that they're trying to draw it out a little more to avoid fillers in the near future. And Deidara is just cool; the music they use when showing the 2 akatsuki is awesome. I don't know why some people are referring to it as "Star Wars" music, they have nothing in common except they're both using a vocal chorus.

Kraco

Mon, 02-26-2007, 02:36 PM

And finally examine Sakura's technique. There is no visible chakra involved, so it seems to require less chakra than both Chidori and Rasengan. However, the destruction wrought was substantial. This technique might be less effective at penetrating defense and causing damage to people, but for tearing up the ground or punching through trees/walls it seems to be ideal (Tsunade heavily used it for this purpose during her fight with Kabuto). Sakura could probably use her punch many times while chidori and rasengan would drain your chakra very quickly.

I guess you missed the part where Naruto made probably dozens of rasengans per day during his training. And those unperfected things likely ate far more chakra than the real thing. Naruto might have a good chakra pool, but it's only infinite when he's tapping to the fox demon's red chakra, and normally he's not doing it, and he runs out of chakra just like anybody else.

Xollence

Mon, 02-26-2007, 05:25 PM

I'm so glad Naruto is finally back to normal. I haven't watched anime in over a year.

Narasho

Mon, 02-26-2007, 06:56 PM

I still don't like the person x > person y, so person z > person x because person z > person y argument. In other words, Jiraiya could beat Oro because Oro is afraid of Itachi and Itachi didn't want to fight Jiraiya. Such arguments are flawed on their face, because each individual fight would proceed much differently than the others. The situations are different, you can't say Oro without any preparation could beat the Third every time anymore than you can say Jiraiya could beat Itachi if Itachi was prepared to take him on.

That's a good point. What I was merely doing was speculating that while Itachi is powerful, (possibly one of the most powerful members of Akatsuki) I believe there have been people introduced thus far (in the anime, I don't read the manga) who are more powerful than him. The only reason I brought this up was someone earlier in the thread said that they thought no one introduced thus far is as powerful as Itachi. I am in disagreement with this. Of course, we have seen so little of Itachi's and Jiraiya's abilities that my point was moot.

I don't know why everyone's complaining about this episode. I thought it was good. A little slow, but what do you expect after 2+ years of filler? I'm glad that they're trying to draw it out a little more to avoid fillers in the near future. And Deidara is just cool; the music they use when showing the 2 akatsuki is awesome. I don't know why some people are referring to it as "Star Wars" music, they have nothing in common except they're both using a vocal chorus.

I too liked this episode. As I said before, I don't mind flashbacks, and I even enjoy them, as long as it's not a flashback to a filler or something that happened fairly recently.

The fight between Kakashi and Naruto/Sakura thus far was nothing special, but then again the original battle for the bells wasn't all that great either. I'm just glad Naruto has started up again, and the animation is at least decent. (though a few notches down from the previous week - the first episode of Naruto Shippuden had the best animation of any Naruto episode in my opinion.)

I should mention that before I had the episode downloaded I came here to look at the responses and I saw quite a few people saying it was boring and a stupid episode, which made me really disappointed, so when I watched the episode 10-15 minutes later, my expectations were very low. That may have been part of the reason why I liked the episode.

The point I'm trying to make is that each technique has its own challenges for use, purposes for use, and not everyone can learn every technique. Chidori is probably the most specialized, with Rasengan next, and Sakura's punch the least specialized. So they are different techniques and not just the same thing over and over IMO.

I'm not sure what you mean by "most specialized", but when Jiraiya decided to teach Naruto the Rasengan he said it was a technique 2nd level from the top, which I assumed to mean it was a very high level technique. The fourth himself developed it, so it must be among the strongest techniques shown so far. I'm not sure if power of technique has anything whatsoever to do with your most specialized comment, and I may be way off in my interpretation of that. So please clarify.

Super5

Tue, 02-27-2007, 12:25 AM

By "specialized", all I mean is that there are restrictions on who can use it. Chidori is a jutsu that requires a knowledge of lightning techniques, an "affinity", if you will. Rasengan isn't elemental based, so any character could learn it with the right amount of study and the right teacher. Sakura's strength probably requires even less training, since the execution of it doesn't involve swirling chakra, only gathering it in her fist.

So what I meant to say was the ability to learn it, plus the training involved, relates to how "specialized" it is. I only said that Chidori was more specialized than Rasengan because not everyone can learn it no matter how good they are at training and chakra control.

The point I tried to make in the beginning was that Chidori, Rasengan, and Sakura's punch are not just the same thing with different names. And my comments weren't particularly directed at you, I happen to agree with you about Itachi in particular.

HyourinMaru-

Tue, 02-27-2007, 12:27 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by "most specialized", but when Jiraiya decided to teach Naruto the Rasengan he said it was a technique 2nd level from the top, which I assumed to mean it was a very high level technique. The fourth himself developed it, so it must be among the strongest techniques shown so far. I'm not sure if power of technique has anything whatsoever to do with your most specialized comment, and I may be way off in my interpretation of that. So please clarify.

the chidori is developed by Kakashi also... and Kakashi is the student of the 4th... so it means.. chidori and rasengan has the same quality in terms of power... but maybe different in terms of chakra...

JaySee

Tue, 02-27-2007, 01:01 AM

Uhh... WHAT? How does Kakashi being Yondaime's student equal Chidori and Rasengan being the same power? dO_ob

DarthEnderX

Tue, 02-27-2007, 01:38 AM

Yeah really. In fact, if anything it suggests that it's actually weaker. Since Jiraya said that Sharingan can't copy Rasengan, it almost makes it seem like Kakashi tried to recreate his Master's technique, failed, and ended up with something similar, but much less chakra-efficient.

HyourinMaru-

Tue, 02-27-2007, 02:12 AM

well basically its like this.. when somebody taught you how to paint. you would actually learn how to paint to the extent of getting the qualities even that of your teacher and sometimes even surpasses them.. so in this case... we all know that kakashi is taught by the 4th right.. so basically.. we can say that he has acquired the skills of the 4th... though not in general. and besides... aside from chidori using lightning the concepts of both rasengan and chidori are just equal... we just dont know which needs more chakra.. either the chidori or rasengan.. and for the damage.. well this is just my opinion... the rasengan has internal damage.. rather than an assasination ability with which the chidori has...

High Wind

Tue, 02-27-2007, 02:42 AM

On the whole Chidori/Rasengan/Sakura Fist.

I always thought of it like this

Chidori - Concentrates raw chakra into users arm and "ignites" it, This basically consumes chakra because it is lost when the user explodes the chakra. Thus this skill requires the user to be able to have moderate Chakra control and be able to utilize a fair bit of chakra.

Rasengan - Concentrates chakra into the users palm. This technique utilizes the users ability to create rotational movement of chakra in the hand. I don't think this skill actually CONSUMES chakra until it hits something and the force is dissipated. However this skill requires an enormous chakra "pool" to maintain and an overall high level of chakra control(I assume Naruto compensates with this by creating a clone).

Sakura Fist - The user must concentrate chakra into the fist. Upon contact with a surface the user needs to release all the chakra at once to create an enormous force. This requires an extremely high amount of chakra control as it stores up chakra in the arm and the user must be able to have enough control to time chakra release with impact.

This is just how I see it and I'm sure many of you will disagree with at least some of my thoughts. Also sorry in advance if some parts of my post are confusing/have poor sentence structure. Language Arts is not my forte.

JaySee

Tue, 02-27-2007, 03:41 AM

HyourinMaru-, your logic is so messed up, it's beyond belief. Just because you're taught by someone doesn't mean you learn everything they know and surpass them. In fact, most often the opposite is true. You learn but a fraction of what the teacher knows and stay inferior to him. It's already been stated Yondaime was the best Ninja Konoha ever had. That means Kakashi doesn't measure up to him. That means he's inferior. That makes it HIGHLY unlikely he makes a superior jutsu. DarthEnder's theory is much more sound.

Anyway, who cares about Sakura's boom punch. I want to see her have the scalpel technique that Kabuto uses.

XanBcoo

Tue, 02-27-2007, 04:10 AM

Anyway, who cares about Sakura's boom punch.
That was pretty much my point when I brought it up. I always thought Tsunade was insanely strong, which was cool. Now that I know she's basically doing the Rasengan/Chidori without releasing the chakra, it makes it less impressive. Kind of a letdown imo.

Yukimura

Wed, 02-28-2007, 12:06 AM

@Hyourinmaru: Just because the fourth was the leader of their team doens't mean he taught anyone anything. What techniques has Kakashi taught Sakura or Naruto. He taught them skills he thought they should have like chakra sticking and genjutsu breaking, but he only passed on the chidori to Sasuke, and nothing to Sakura. There were three people in the fourths team, who's to say he didn't take a liking to to that chick or the kid with the goggles instead of Kakashi (who doesn't seem like much of a team player anyway).

As to Sakuras strength, I was thinking that once the show got back on track and Sakura's growth was revealed people would recognize that she wasn't a useless crybaby anymore, but lo and behold now Sakura's super strength is being talked down to a cheap imitation of Chidori and Rasengan. While I disagree, it's funy from an objective perspective since it appears that the Sakura hate runs deeper than the simple 'she sucks' reasoning.

From the way Kakashi described it, I doubt Sakura is restricted in the way in which she can apply this new skill, unlike chidori or rasengan which a) are massively telegraphed, and b) have more limited usefulness (Chidori being more limited than Rasengan) but Sakura's power isn't a technique as much as a skill, as evidenced my her destroying everything in that forest with no negative effects on herself. If you're going to compare her punch to a Rasengan or Chidori then you must admit she has out classed both Naruto and sasuke in that she can use her skill much more easily, frequently and quickly than either of them.

JaySee

Wed, 02-28-2007, 01:36 AM

They hate Sakura because she represents the pretty, stuck up girl that they either got rejected by or didn't have the guts to talk to in school.

XanBcoo

Wed, 02-28-2007, 02:41 AM

If you're going to compare her punch to a Rasengan or Chidori then you must admit she has out classed both Naruto and sasuke in that she can use her skill much more easily, frequently and quickly than either of them.
Also a point I made earlier. Her punch is an more easily accessible version of Rasengan/Chidori. Seems kinda useless that Naruto would have to go through the trouble of creating a Bunshin and forming a Rasengan just to knock through a tree.

I'm not knockin' Sakura (I never was much of a Sakura hater at any rate). I love how she's improved, I just wish Masashi Kishimoto had thought of something new besides another technique that focuses chakra in the hand.

Assertn

Wed, 02-28-2007, 03:02 AM

Does it really matter? The point is that Tsunade passed on her combat and medial techniques to Sakura.

Idealistic

Wed, 02-28-2007, 03:58 AM

Give Sakura a break already... Isn't it enough that she can't perform those super cool ninjutsus like Naruto and Sasuke? All she has is her henge and other minor things.... So now she has something that would actually be useful during combat.

So what if Sakura's regular punch is better than Naruto's Rasengan or Sasuke's Chidori.... she has SUPER STRENGTH (Well maybe that's the wrong term, but that's pretty much what her chakra focusing gives her)... Naruto and Sasuke don't have that so therefore they rely on skills such as Rasengan and Chidori...

Can Sakura do some mass shadow clones or fire element attacks? No she can't.... Or at least not yet...

Terracosmo

Wed, 02-28-2007, 09:24 AM

They hate Sakura because she represents the pretty, stuck up girl that they either got rejected by or didn't have the guts to talk to in school.

I'd rather drive a fork up my own ass than lower myself to talking to someone who even slightly resembles Sakura, who I am convinced is among the biggest bitches in anime history.

redcat

Wed, 02-28-2007, 12:14 PM

redcat, you continue to amaze me.
+1 warning for flaming
+1 warning for being totally off topic
+1 warning for repeat offense
These warnings will not disappear for some time, and so i advise you to curb your attitude. When/if you get a ban, it's likely to be a permanent one.

masamuneehs

comment removed

DarthEnderX

Wed, 02-28-2007, 01:54 PM

we just dont know which needs more chakra.. Yes we do. Jiraya specifically said that Chidori wastes more chakra than rasengan when he was teaching it to Naruto.

anime nomad

Wed, 02-28-2007, 06:05 PM

new naruto episodes are freaking awesome. they almost make me forget the atrocities that they have been calling naruto for the past ~2years (? who's counting?)
but back on topic...

i've never been a Sakura hater per say, except for that bit when she tries to stop sasuke leaving.... but i think sakura could actually be a really great fighter now, i mean look @ oro's minion the glasses dude (forget his name, ~kabushi?) he uses medical jitsu, and the guys deadly. i think the combination of medical jitsu and super strength can be awesome. alas for sakura her role seems destined to be the useless character, despite the awesome potential of her skills.

here's some food for your immagination: we've seen the chidori cut thru Garaa's ultimate defense, i wonder if sakura's puch could smash thru it? or how well the rasangan would do against it. personally i think the chidori would perform better in that kind of test.

Narasho

Wed, 02-28-2007, 06:51 PM

i've never been a Sakura hater per say, except for that bit when she tries to stop sasuke leaving.... but i think sakura could actually be a really great fighter now, i mean look @ oro's minion the glasses dude (forget his name, ~kabushi?) he uses medical jitsu, and the guys deadly. i think the combination of medical jitsu and super strength can be awesome. alas for sakura her role seems destined to be the useless character, despite the awesome potential of her skills.

I've never cared whether or not Sakura could contribute to the fighting, I've only cared whether or not she could contribute to the story as a major character should. (Which, thus far, she has not) It remains to be seen whether or not her apparent growth in ninja abilities will mirror her growth in importance to the story.