Possibilities of Unknowns

[kimbap629]

Who do you think/what do you think these were?

Uchiha Madara
- the one Kyubi mentions to Sasuke

The Third Coffin
- during Sandaime vs. Orochimaru

The King
- the chess piece Asuma & Shikamaru were discussing over

The "Jutsu" Jiraiya Forbid Naruto To Use
- I doubt that it's Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken
- I'm thinking it might have something to do with the Kyubi or maybe Naruto learned a Kinjutsu (Forbidden Technique) while training with Jiraiya as a safety measure against Akatsuki?

[RasenDori]

the last two have been answered. the king is the future generation. and the forbidden jutsu is is the kyuubi trasnformation. geez i thought that debate was over long ago.

[JaySee]

Madara's probably some Uchiha from a 100 yrs ago or like the founding member of Uchiha.

[The Adjective]

And I always thought it was pretty clear that the third coffin contained the 4th.

Do you actually read the manga, er....?

[Genma]

Yeah, the third coffin contained Yondaime.

I'm pretty sure Sandaime clearly stated that he could hold his own against the first two, but if Yondaime was released he'd be done for.

[elmojo]

yea it contained the 4th

and that is why anyone who has any rumours about the akatsuki leader should look back into that chapter :D

[Assertn]

I'm sure the 4th was in the third coffin.....and I'm still expecting oro to bust him out sometime now that he has his jutsus back, but wasn't the 4th eaten by the death god like the 3rd was as a consequence for summoning him?

[darkshadow]

That's true, but the 3rd coffin had to be yondaime, cause it was marked with "4" , while the other 2 were marked with 1 and 2, and we both know who came out of those.

[Munsu]

Well the real question is not what the coffin might've contained or to whom it belonged to, but if something would've come out at all had it been succesfully summoned. The coffin could've been empty for all we know.

[Assertn]

That would've been the biggest blooper in Naruto to see oro make a mistake like THAT.

[toonice714]

I don't think that the secret jutsu that jiraiya didn't want naruto to use was the kyubi control. Usually in anime when characters are told not to do something they usually announce what they were told not to do.

[The Adjective]

That would've been the biggest blooper in Naruto to see oro make a mistake like THAT.

Hahaha! No kidding.

And I agree with Toonice. Well, I hope it's something other than his Kyuubi, control anyway. When you think about, Naruto hasn't shown any real result of his training with Jiraiya. The nature manipulation and Rasen Shuriken were learned after for goodness sakes.

Some crazy toad combo jutsus would be nice to see. What was that one Jiraiya used in the Sannin battle? Bunta Oil or something?

That kicked ass.

[JaySee]

The forbidden technique is using the 4th tail.
Jiraiya taught Naruto how to tap in and control the Kyuubi chakra, but after the 3rd tail he goes berserk.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

I'm sure the 4th was in the third coffin.....and I'm still expecting oro to bust him out sometime now that he has his jutsus back, but wasn't the 4th eaten by the death god like the 3rd was as a consequence for summoning him?

That is a good point. I mean if his soul was taken in exchange for sealing the 9 tails then it shouldnt be out there from Oro to use then. And further more, how did the other villages come across this Jutsu if it is soooo secret? Did the 4th tell other Villages about it or did someone tell him? Soo many questions not enough answers! -dg-

[Assertn]

And further more, how did the other villages come across this Jutsu if it is soooo secret? Did the 4th tell other Villages about it or did someone tell him? Soo many questions not enough answers! -dg-
wtf are you talking about

[JaySee]

Why would the death god have taken the 4th's soul? He used a sealing technique on Kyuubi and Naruto not the soul taking technique.

[Assertn]

Why would the death god have taken the 4th's soul? He used a sealing technique on Kyuubi and Naruto not the soul taking technique.
He used the death god summon, because the 3rd points this out himself when he uses it himself. And the mere act of conjuring the death god creates the contract with it.

[BananaFob]

That is a good point. I mean if his soul was taken in exchange for sealing the 9 tails then it shouldnt be out there from Oro to use then. And further more, how did the other villages come across this Jutsu if it is soooo secret? Did the 4th tell other Villages about it or did someone tell him? Soo many questions not enough answers! -dg-

Wasn't Orochimaru part of Konoha? Also, he was still a sensei to Yondaime, as like Gai is to Naruto. They must have had some kind of contact or discussion about it, and also, Orochimaru was developing and researching jutsus (with Kabuto?) before he left Konoha, so Orochimaru might have known about it before.

EDIT: Jaysee, that's what I meant. Gai is not actually a teacher to Naruto, but he is still a teacher. Otherwise, I would have used the Kakashi-Naruto example. And yes, I knew that Orochimaru was older than Yondaime.

[JaySee]

He's considered a traitor to Konoha. He wasn't one of the 4th's teachers. The 3rd and Jiraiya were his teachers, but I guess he was an elder to be called sensei. Orochimaru picked up Kabuto after he left. Orochimaru left before the 4th became the 4th.

[kAi]

He's considered a traitor to Konoha. He wasn't one of the 4th's teachers. The 3rd and Jiraiya were his teachers, but I guess he was an elder to be called sensei. Orochimaru picked up Kabuto after he left. Orochimaru left before the 4th became the 4th.
Orochimaru was pissed that he didn't get chosen as the 4th. So, I think it would've been just after.

[JaySee]

The 4th could've been chosen as the succesor or favorite before he got the title. They also showed that he ran away after being discovered doing his experiments by the 3rd. Either way, it was before the 4th died and Naruto was born.

[kAi]

If Sandaime had heard rumours of his pupil doing such experiements, I think he would've insisted on going.

How do you know it was before Naruto was born?

[JaySee]

It seems obvious to me that Sarutobi (looking too young to be retired) was still Hokage leading the ANBU when he caught Orochimaru.

I think it played out like this: Orochimaru wanted to be Hokage. Sarutobi said "No way you sadistic freak!" Orochimaru got caught and ran away. Jiraiya was too much a perv and Tsunade had gambling problems so they were bad candidates. Then Sarutobi picked the 4th as his successor.

The genin exam clearly shows Orochimaru doesn't know who Naruto is. If he was in the village when Naruto was born, he would know Naruto.

[kAi]

Can you look at other peoples baby photo's and know it's them?

I think it was also said that 10 years ago, Sarutobi could've been a better match or beaten Orochimaru when they had their fight. So he might've still looked pretty fresh back then, 10 years does a lot.

[JaySee]

What the heck does your question have to do with anything?

Anyways, they didn't fight when Orochimaru ran away.

[kAi]

In the fight that Sarutobi died in, it was said that he could've beaten him or been a better match if he was 10 years younger or something along those lines.

The Kyubi incident and the time that Orochimaru ran away is 10+ years ago.

Orochimaru not knowing who Naruto is, means nothing considering Naruto would've been a baby when Orochimaru had left, and the question is relevant.

Can you look at someone's baby picture and know it was them today? No, you can't.
Hence why Orochimaru didn't recognize Naruto, but found out who he is.

[JaySee]

What the heck does 3rd wanting to fight the Orochimaru 10 years ago have to do with anything? Your argument is fallacious.

Orochimaru would know Naruto by name if he was in the village during the incident, not facial recognition. Not only that, someone who's constantly spying on the village and knows about Sasuke would've investigated Naruto and the Kyuubi if he had any clue about it.

[jing]

Yup, kAi's right about that one. Furthermore, I think the jutsu Jiraiya forbid Naruto to use isn't transforming into 4tails because that is already triggered by anger. The jutsu Naruto knows, is probably once in a lifetime thing.

[kAi]

It seems obvious to me that Sarutobi (looking too young to be retired) was still Hokage leading the ANBU when he caught Orochimaru.

I think it was also said that 10 years ago, Sarutobi could've been a better match or beaten Orochimaru when they had their fight. So he might've still looked pretty fresh back then, 10 years does a lot.


You are the one that brought up that he was to young looking to be retired.

Orochimaru running away, the Kyubi incident, these events would've happened around the same time, the only question is when, before or after.

[JaySee]

I think you need to take a critical thinking course or something to learn the basics of logic. You're all over the place kAi. The whole wanting to fight him 10 years ago thing has no connection to when Orochimaru ran away.

Anyways, due to the reasons I've already said, it looks as though he ran away before the Kyuubi attacked.

[HyourinMaru-]

jaysee, i think kai is right... the time Orochimaru ran away was also the time the third hokage has already known the secrets orochimaru has been doing, and that was 10 years ago. i remember the monkey king told the third hokage and blamed him for not killing orochimaru at that time. and then the attack on konoha by the kyubi happened 12 years ago, the time naruto was born, so its safe to say that the kyubi incident happened first before orochimaru ran away

[JaySee]

Well, I just re-watched episodes 72-79. You guys are totally wrong. It's spelled out he left over 12 years ago when he kills the 3rd. He says right at the beginning of the fight, in AnimeOne's translation: "It has been ten and a few years since I left the village..." That means at least 12.

Not only that, Orochimaru knew nothing of the sealing technique.

Episode 69 clearly shows the Kanji marking of 4 on the 3rd casket. Plot hole I guess. Unless maybe the shinigami was in there w/o Orochimaru knowing since he CLEARLY left the village before the Kyuubi attack and he CLEARLY doesn't know how the 4th died.

[HyourinMaru-]

okay.. im sorry JaySee.. i just read Oro's bio and timeline at leafninja and i found that it was 14 years since he left the village.. im sorry for the wrong conclusion

[JaySee]

I have a question now after re-watching the 3rd's death. How the heck did 4th use this technique? Did he carry Naruto on his stomach so the shinigami's hand would go through him as well? How the hell did he stop the shinigami from taking Naruto's soul? Why the hell did he have to put it in Naruto instead of just let the shinigami eat it? HOW THE HECK DID HE SUBDUE THE KYUUBI IN THE FIRST PLACE TO DO THE TECHNIQUE?!?!

[Idealistic]

I have a question now after re-watching the 3rd's death. How the heck did 4th use this technique? Did he carry Naruto on his stomach so the shinigami's hand would go through him as well? How the hell did he stop the shinigami from taking Naruto's soul? Why the hell did he have to put it in Naruto instead of just let the shinigami eat it? HOW THE HECK DID HE SUBDUE THE KYUUBI IN THE FIRST PLACE TO DO THE TECHNIQUE?!?!

cuz he's the fourth.... and i remember them saying the kyuubi was much too powerful or large for the shinigami to completely take so they had to seal it in naruto or something like that.

or perhaps i read it from somewhere.

[Assertn]

I have a question now after re-watching the 3rd's death. How the heck did 4th use this technique? Did he carry Naruto on his stomach so the shinigami's hand would go through him as well? How the hell did he stop the shinigami from taking Naruto's soul? Why the hell did he have to put it in Naruto instead of just let the shinigami eat it? HOW THE HECK DID HE SUBDUE THE KYUUBI IN THE FIRST PLACE TO DO THE TECHNIQUE?!?!

These have all been brought up back when it first occurred in the Anime....it ended up being a lengthy discussion that ultimately led nowhere. You're better off waiting and seeing if Kishimoto ever elaborates more on the jutsu.

[Munsu]

okay.. im sorry JaySee.. i just read Oro's bio and timeline at leafninja and i found that it was 14 years since he left the village.. im sorry for the wrong conclusion
14 years when? 14 years from the beginning of the series? 14 years since the final fight with Sarutobi? 14 years after the time skip?

Because at the start of the series the Kyuubi incident happened 12 years ago. At the fight with Sarutobi it was 13 years ago. And after the time skip it would've been 15 years ago, almost 16.

I do think Orochimaru left before the Kyuubi arrived, but I don't have the facts to back it up. And I think what Kai was bringing up is that the argument and logic you guy's been using are flawed to make the the assumed timeline factual.

That Orochimaru didn't recognize or know Naruto is irrelevant. He knew enough about him to screw with Naruto's kyuubi chakra.


It's spelled out he left over 12 years ago when he kills the 3rd. He says right at the beginning of the fight, in AnimeOne's translation: "It has been ten and a few years since I left the village..." That means at least 12.

Guess what? If what you're saying is true, then Orochimaru should've been around when they Kyuubi came, as evident with what I posted earlier. So, Orochimaru should've left the village at least 13 years ago when he faught Sarutobi, and still it would be cutting it close.

[.noname.silent]

Guess what? If what you're saying is true, then Orochimaru should've been around when they Kyuubi came, as evident with what I posted earlier. So, Orochimaru should've left the village at least 13 years ago when he faught Sarutobi, and still it would be cutting it close.

you know there are months in years.

[Munsu]

you know there are months in years.
.noname.silent... I clearly took that into consideration, so read my post carefully.

[.noname.silent]

noted. didn't read for a second time, first time i read it sounded like you didn't consider months in it (in regards to the quoted Jaysee's post).

[JaySee]

Orochimaru not knowing Naruto is very relevant. He had no clue of the Kyuubi until Naruto's eyes changed and he started acting berserk. As a Jounin and Sannin, and not to mention he loves to experiment on things and craves power, it makes no sense that he would not know Naruto if he left AFTER the Kyuubi incident. It also is hard to believe that they would investigate and find out what Orochimaru was up to AFTER the Kyuubi incident when the village was in ruin and they were rebuilding. They would have their hands full just like after Orochimaru devastated the village. He also says he's surprised the baby lived. Even more proof he wasn't there after the incident.

Also, him not recognizing the seal technique points out that he wasn't at the battle. It's very strange the one of the strongest ninja of the village wouldn't be fighting.

[marusu]

I have a question now after re-watching the 3rd's death. How the heck did 4th use this technique? Did he carry Naruto on his stomach so the shinigami's hand would go through him as well? How the hell did he stop the shinigami from taking Naruto's soul? Why the hell did he have to put it in Naruto instead of just let the shinigami eat it? HOW THE HECK DID HE SUBDUE THE KYUUBI IN THE FIRST PLACE TO DO THE TECHNIQUE?!?!

off the top of my head: maybe the fourth just sealed the kyuubi inside him, which instead of killing him made him into a baby, whom the villagers called naruto... then years later, kishimoto makes a story arc where naruto ends up going back in time and becomes the 4th everyone knows of, realizing his dream of being hokage and thus creating a nice time-loop ending for the entire series... hahaha... please don't take this seriously... :p

[HyourinMaru-]

14 years when? 14 years from the beginning of the series? 14 years since the final fight with Sarutobi? 14 years after the time skip?

Because at the start of the series the Kyuubi incident happened 12 years ago. At the fight with Sarutobi it was 13 years ago. And after the time skip it would've been 15 years ago, almost 16.

I do think Orochimaru left before the Kyuubi arrived, but I don't have the facts to back it up. And I think what Kai was bringing up is that the argument and logic you guy's been using are flawed to make the the assumed timeline factual.

14 years before serries starts... thats what i've read on some site...

[kyubisrage]

off the top of my head: maybe the fourth just sealed the kyuubi inside him, which instead of killing him made him into a baby, whom the villagers called naruto... then years later, kishimoto makes a story arc where naruto ends up going back in time and becomes the 4th everyone knows of, realizing his dream of being hokage and thus creating a nice time-loop ending for the entire series... hahaha... please don't take this seriously... :p


Honestly this isn't that far fetched it would solve a lot of questions we have on their similarities of looks and all. But they would of prob told naruto and they prob wouldn't hate him cuss he is the yondaime..

[Death BOO Z]

again with the "what happened to the 4th" theories?
I think that the jutsu transfers souls from the victim to the caster (or target), and from the caster to deathgod, thereby killing both the enemy's body and taking away the caster. but in Naruto's case, since the 9 tails is uber immortal and would simply respawn if you take him out, yodaime decided to seal him into a little baby, to grant the village atleast a few more years of security from the demon.

yay - 1400 posts!