Saddam Dies

[Turkish-S]

As you all probably know Saddam died today.
http://www.nbc5.com/news/10629421/detail.html?rss=chi&psp=news

Justice? Discuss.

In my opinion it isn't, if the iraqi people had overthrown him then it would be ok to kill the guy. But now it just feels wrong. And there is no country with dictatorship who doesn't use brute force against there oponents. Why not get all those people on a trial and kill them.

[woofcat]

I voted Justice.

I really don't have much of an opinion on the war since i am not a part of ether country, but. He did kill the Kurds and what not. Maybe his method of capture and trial were distasteful but w/e.

[darkmetal505]

Today or last night?

I'm sure I heard it on the news. It seems like they are keeping this on the down low for some reason.

[Kraco]

Well, if most of the Iraqi people think this was the way to go, who am I to object? I've never lived under brutal, violent oppression nor had my friends and relatives wiped out, so I could never claim to be able to imagine how great many citizens over there felt.

Saddam was beyond doubt guilty of great many severe things, there's no question of that. If his own people deemed the offences grave enough to execute him, then it was justice by their standards. For my own part I don't really support death penalties, but that's only how I feel it should be in the EU. Other places must live according to their own traditional and established ideals.

[BioAlien]

Justice, about time that ass of a man die.

[masamuneehs]

nothing "discrase"ful about it. the world's better off without his crazy ass.

and the execution was done early in the morning, Iraq time. One cited reason for the exact time being kept "on the down low" was to avoid any insurgent/terrorist action being orchestrated in protest. If nobody knows when it is, nobody'll show up to protest.

and turkish, how is it not just simply because an outside force had to intervene? That's like saying police separating an abusive father from his children is wrong because the police aren't part of the family.

regardless of who brought him down, he deserved to die. so as far as i'm concerned, it's a step in the right direction to hang the bastard.

[dark maginn]

Justice....

[Turkish-S]

and turkish, how is it not just simply because an outside force had to intervene? That's like saying police separating an abusive father from his children is wrong because the police aren't part of the family.
.

I think thats a wrong metafor since the US ain't the world's police.
I also think it's Justice but like i said it just feels wrong. Why let him stay leader all this time why not intervene right after (or before) he gassed the kurds or all the other horrible things he did.
It's like capturing the father while his children are dead.

[xDarkMaster]

Justice without a doubt. I really hope no one in here thinks it is a disgrace.

[Kraco]

I think thats a wrong metafor since the US ain't the world's police.
I also think it's Justice but like i said it just feels wrong. Why let him stay leader all this time why not intervene right after (or before) he gassed the kurds or all the other horrible things he did.
It's like capturing the father while his children are dead.

Alas, they are indeed different things: A troubled household and a troubled country. One does not simply walk into Iraq. It's crumbling gates are guarded by more than just death squads. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the bearded eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland riddled with riffle fire, sand (it's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere), and dust, the very air you breathe is poisonous gas. Not with ten thousand could you do this. It is folly.

[el_boss]

You forgot the "I don't care" option.

[Board of Command]

Justice but I don't like the method of execution.

[Lucifus]

Justice hands down for me......

[DDBen]

Justice without a doubt.

[eat_toast]

No matter what country you belong to, no matter what your beliefs on the death penalty are, the world is better place without that man in it. What he did warrants what he got, he killed so many, with such reckless abandon, it is fitting that his judgment was to be death. As people before me have stated- the Iraqi people are the ones who voted for his hanging, and they are the ones who know firsthand the horrors he brought upon the world.... The issue here is not the timing of it. That is a separate issue, and one the world needs to ask itself. Why did they stand idly by when these events transpired? I for one, do not know enough about the "world politics", as these were most surely a factor, of that time, and in order to have clear standpoint on that issue I feel that is needed. In any case, I voted Justice.

[gr3atfull]

I voted disgrace.

No matter what he did, no one deserves to be hang. They should have put him in prison. Yes, I know that he did many horrible thing, but he would suffer more being in prison and dying. Getting hanged, you suffer few minutes maximum, but being in prison for the next 10 years you suffer more and you think about the bad stuffs that you did. Plus, this hanging would just the situation in Iraq worse than it is actually.

[Edort4]

As I see it if he had not right to kill anyone, anyone had the right to kill him. I dont believe in hell so for me they just released him from a lot of pain he should have suffered in prison. Anyway about the 90% of the world primer ministers, presidents, war ciefs have done the same thing (some even worse) and I wont live to see them pay for it so talking about justice just makes me feel sad.

It was their decision, imo they chose the wrong one.

[Stoopider]

Justice. We've just gotten rid of one less monster in the world. He has done great injustice to Iraq and his neighbours like Kuwait.

The Sadam Loyalist right now would be fighting a lost cause. But like Saddam said, probably jokingly before he died, "Muqtada Al Sadr". I think we've just traded in one monster for another.

At least we won't hear of a story of "Saddam escapes from jail".That would be even more embarrassing.

[Assassin]

His sentence was definately a just one. In accordance to islamic law, the penalty for all his crimes would've been death as well so no one can say this was unjust. However, the method and time of death dont sit too well with me.

First, his execution was carried out during the Hajj pilgrimage, and if im not mistaken on the day of Eid which is an affront to muslims. I dont know why the court/judge or whoever was incharge of the trials chose this date, but it definately wasn't a coincidence. The date could have easily been moved forward or back a few days.

Secondly, why was he hanged. Im not familiar with the procedures of other "civilized" countries, but in the states aren't death row inmates given a lethal injection (i dont think they even use the chair anymore, but i could be wrong)? With all the fuss about human rights violations during his regime and stuff, they still decide to hang him which i find ironic.

Some intresting tidbits: i heard on the news that he was the first dictator/political leader to be hung since like ww2 or some such. Im no history buff, but i can't recall any war criminals getting the noose since nuremberg.

[Carnage]

I would definatly say justice, but I was hoping he would get sent to prison to suffer more though......or maybe have all the families that were victim to his cruelty beat him slowly to death? I think the only regret here is that the death wasn't painful enough ;). But also, shouldn't certain U.S. officials be punished as well by the standards that we punished Sadam? Its not like we didn't do horrible things...We nuked Japan twice and used Agent Orange in the Vietnam war which affected many lives and still does today.....

I guess you can say we were justified in doing so because it was in wartime, but still....We hurt many innocent people we didnt have to (Vietnam). Also, We used the nukes just to save our soldiers lives, so in that we were pretty much saying our soldiers are worth more than innocent japanese lives.

What I'm trying to say is, perhaps our government doesn't have the right to kill Sadam acting as a world police especially when we havent been so rightous in the past.I definatly don't see the U.S. as the good guys, especially since we were the ones who gave him so many weapons. Im not so sure it was worth it to go into Iraq just to kill one man......But I am happy that Sadam is dead, he definatly deserved it :p

[Spiegel]

Justice, For my limited knowledge that is the only true end for a man of his past actions.

[Yukimura]

I'm in the don't care category, whether he's dead or not has little bearing on my life, but since I believe the world is over populated I'm glad there's one less person wasting resources.

From a moral standpoint, he's obviously not the only person to do what he did and the bulk of those like him will probably go unpunished but since there is no shining beacon of truth and righteousness in the world that can pass judgement on all the tyrannical despots we'll just have to make due with the US government.

And Carnage the US didn't execute him, a bunch of Iraqi's with funny necklaces decided to execute him. We just went in and took the guns away from most of the people who would have killed the necklace wearing people before they could pass judgement on him.

[Bucket]

I've heard it's a good thing.
Supposedly there's footage floating out there on the interwebs, but I can't be bothered.

[XanBcoo]

Alas, they are indeed different things: A troubled household and a troubled country. One does not simply walk into Iraq. It's crumbling gates are guarded by more than just death squads. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the bearded eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland riddled with riffle fire, sand (it's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere), and dust, the very air you breathe is poisonous gas. Not with ten thousand could you do this. It is folly.
That made me laugh. However, I recognized that quote way too soon :p.

As for Sadaam, I don't want to say "don't care", but I find it hard to pick a side on the matter. I'm perpetually on the fence about the death penalty. I do believe it was morally "wrong" to hang him, but he no doubt deserved his punishment. Deserved it a hundred times over.

It's over now though. He's dead and I won't worry about it too much. The world is no doubt a much better place now that he's gone anyway.

[Turkish-S]

I've heard it's a good thing.
Supposedly there's footage floating out there on the interwebs, but I can't be bothered.

you tube!!!

[ChaosK]

Justice, but that's as far as I'll go seeing as I really don't care about it.

[Super5]

I voted disgrace.

No matter what he did, no one deserves to be hang. They should have put him in prison. Yes, I know that he did many horrible thing, but he would suffer more being in prison and dying. Getting hanged, you suffer few minutes maximum, but being in prison for the next 10 years you suffer more and you think about the bad stuffs that you did. Plus, this hanging would just the situation in Iraq worse than it is actually.
I voted justice, because come on, if you put him in prison he's likely to escape the way Iraq is going nowadays. Putting him to death puts an end to his government once and for all, and the Iraqi people really need that. Hence why they voted to execute him. He definitely deserved execution (he gassed his own people deliberately - mustard gas is a horrible way to die), but it does feel more like we executed him, not the Iraqis.

@Assassin: He's lucky to be hanged. Traditionally executions in Muslim nations are public beheading - he got off easy in that respect.

[Sandldan]

@Assassin: He's lucky to be hanged. Traditionally executions in Muslim nations are public beheading - he got off easy in that respect.

Being hanged was the only way he didnt want to be executed in, due to an extra amount of humiliation and disgrace being associated with it. (Atleast that's what an article i read said)

[masamuneehs]

it ain't pretty...
Cellphone camera recording of the execution (http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=KnzwgBrIr1s)

you also must be a registered youtube member over a certain age to view this particular video. There are other ones out there, stuff broadcast on TV and that, but this is what I've been told is "the real" leaked recording.

[Inazuma]

It ain't right, death penalty seriously ... We're in 2007, we're supposed to be the most evolued self conscient being in the universe. And what ... Rope + Hasty Trial + Hatred = Justice Justice ? Don't kid me ... Revenge ... maybe ... or maybe worst, occidentals silencing the old man. Ok, the guy was "Evil", killing people and such ...
But "We" did support him, selling weapons, technology, ...
To superpowers the man was an embarassing person, not a threat (Military speaking), not a "I-Gotta-take-the-man-down-for-democracy-and-human-rights".

Just guess what would have happened if Saddam had an A-bomb or decent weaponery ...
No invasion, no embargo, no International indignation, ...

" The Saddam Evil Dictator is slaying people for fun in his counrty, we gotta take him down, bring a rope and some missiles ... "
" No can't do ... He got some Massive Dest... err ... We just cannot barge in a sovereign state like that, if you got a complain ask the UN "

It's no matter of justice anyway
Powerfull Third Party + Greed + Paranoid + Weakened state + Unpopular leader * Crimes = Irak-like scenario.

The result ? More Ennemy Combattants ...
"Man gimme some ... Extra clips, gotta avenge the old man, don't hang the representation of my country."

I don't mean that Saddam's vanishing isn't a good thing, I just say, when you bring the shit elsewhere, unless you suppress all witnesses, the shit will come right back, amplified.

Come on ... No need of the "World Police" we need a mediator.

[SK]

We all die eventually anyway, just because every dictator who commits atrocities isn't put to trial and executed doesn't mean one of them can't be.

[gr3atfull]

I voted justice, because come on, if you put him in prison he's likely to escape the way Iraq is going nowadays. Putting him to death puts an end to his government once and for all, and the Iraqi people really need that. Hence why they voted to execute him. He definitely deserved execution (he gassed his own people deliberately - mustard gas is a horrible way to die), but it does feel more like we executed him, not the Iraqis.

I know that he deserves to die ( killing the Kurds, the war with Iran with chemical weapon etc...) but killing some one does not solve the problem plus it is unethical. I don't think that if he was in prison he would run away. The prison would be heavily guarded by the Americans soldiers or you can send him to Guantánamo Bay prison until the situation in Iraq gets better.

[Super5]

Morally I'm opposed to the death penalty, but the poll asked if it was "justice". If you go by the "eye for an eye" code that most of the world's justice system operates on, then yes it was just. If he were put in prison, I'm guessing that the Iraqis would want to hold him. And didn't some former government minister (indicted for much less serious crimes) just walk out of a prison guarded by Iraqis - twice?

Anyway I'm opposed to the death penalty on religious grounds but it was justice by the world's standards.

[Ryllharu]

I wouldn't call it justice. He got hanged after a single trial, and there were plans to have several more for the various war crimes he committed. Granted, people want justice swiftly done rather than 10 trials that all end with the same result and last a total of 10 years.

I would have preferred he go to the gallows (or whatever various methods they might employ) after receiving a dozen or so consecutive death sentences. But people don't want to see justice carried out 10 years from now, they always want justice right now. There really wasn't any way out of it, but without due process of having each trial, which he rightly deserved and should have stood trial for, is it really justice?

Well, in the end, different countries, different concepts of law.

[Death13a]

They sould have had buried him alive then hanging him.

[complich8]

It ain't right, death penalty seriously ... We're in 2007, we're supposed to be the most evolued self conscient being in the universe. And what ... Rope + Hasty Trial + Hatred = Justice Justice ?
Universe? Probably not. Planet? Probably. But just think, a mere couple hundred years ago, the most "civilized" civilizations on the planet and the religion of "love and forgiveness" tortured and killed thousands of people for their refusal to adopt their beliefs (ie: the Inquisition). A hanging death is at least mercifully quick.

More to the point, if he had been left alive, someone would have killed him anyway. Why do you think he was living in a hole? Hiding from us? Not so much that as hiding from his opponents when we broke his power.

Even more to the point, his trial and his execution were both orchestrated and played by Iraqis. We took away his power and arrested him, but they're the ones who decided whether, when, where, why and how. So there's a certain element of "not our fault" in that.

I'd rather see him hanged in a state-run execution (even an unprofessional one like the one he got) than shivved in a prison camp though.


Don't kid me ... Revenge ... maybe ... or maybe worst, occidentals silencing the old man. Ok, the guy was "Evil", killing people and such ...
But "We" did support him, selling weapons, technology, ...
To superpowers the man was an embarassing person, not a threat (Military speaking), not a "I-Gotta-take-the-man-down-for-democracy-and-human-rights".

A little incoherent here. But you're right, we did indeed support him once. In retrospect, it was a bad idea. Our participation in the Korean war and Vietnam was also probably a bad idea. And our arming and training Afghanistan to fight against the Soviets... just as bad. But again, while the US deposed him, we didn't execute him. His own people did that.


(incoherent rantings removed)
Come on ... No need of the "World Police" we need a mediator.

Incoherent rantings aside, the current conflict in Iraq was something of an inevitability. The reason Saddam was so successful in ruling Iraq was that he built what amounts to a personality cult around himself, and followed an approach of modernization to try to unite people under a modern standard of living. The mere process of invading invalidated much of that modernization, and deposing the iron-fisted dictator in an environment rife with factionalism certainly seeded the current situation to bloom into a lovely bloody war.

Iraq doesn't need a mediator. They need a dictator to sweep in, improve lives, and crush opposition to him. Much like Saddam and the Baath party did for a quarter of a century.

It's a nice high-minded ideal to think that democracy works everywhere. But it doesn't. Mediating conflicts doesn't work when all involved parties have no faith in the mediation process and are unwilling to compromise. When none of the participants is willing to give the slightest bit of ground to the other, and perceives the other as being the same way, it's just not going anywhere.

[Inazuma]

Note : "We", I was thinking about the French Governement, that used to sell every second hand weaponery to Iraq (And Other countries).

[Death BOO Z]

if you don't trust the prison system, it doesn't mean you need to kill the criminals to make sure they don't commit crime again.

What happened to Saddam isn't justice, it isn't even close to it, but it's probably the cloesest thing that we'll see in this situation.
not that it'll do any good, five years from now we'll be missing him, but going into iraq was still the right thing to do, becuse one day, after Iraq gets in order (under the rulership of some other dictator) and falls again, the Iraqi people (A false state, by the way, we'll have to wait and see which national groups emerge in the next few years) will have a decent soceity, that will be good both for them and for the rest of the world.