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View Full Version : Tsunade really sucks as a leader.



CapsuleCorpJX
Sun, 11-19-2006, 05:44 AM
Here are my reasons:
1) When Sasuke left for Orochimaru, she sent a team of genins to retreive him. She should have gone herself.
2) She can't even control Shikamaru and his team from disobeying her order to stay put. They openly defied her, and she didn't do anything except finally relent.

Stoopider
Sun, 11-19-2006, 06:42 AM
Don't think she should have gone herself. Usually Hokage's don't do the dirty work.

I guess she's bound more by administrative duties as a hokage. More than going into battle.

Psyke
Sun, 11-19-2006, 07:34 AM
Kages are chosen not because of outstanding leadership capabilities, but rather for their strength and fighting abilities. Isn't the Kage supposed to be the strongest in the village?

Assassin
Sun, 11-19-2006, 09:31 AM
Actually no, i believe it was mentioned when the third was still alive that a kage isn't necessarily the strongest ninja in the village, but the best overall. There could be others physically stronger or equal to the kage, but it just seems to be rare. Usually they end up being the strongest person anyway.

Yukimura
Sun, 11-19-2006, 02:15 PM
Tsunade's leadership skills are somewhat questionable, mainly b/c she doesn't seem to have much experiance as a commander. However she can't just run off and do all the missions since she's the one with all the authority, she has to stay in the village and run stuff.

RyougaZell
Sun, 11-19-2006, 03:16 PM
Here are my reasons:
1) When Sasuke left for Orochimaru, she sent a team of genins to retreive him. She should have gone herself.
2) She can't even control Shikamaru and his team from disobeying her order to stay put. They openly defied her, and she didn't do anything except finally relent.

1) There was no one else available. And even with Sharingan, Sasuke was not a "major priority" for Konoha.

2) She knew that the only way to stop them would have been to beat them up, arrest them, or brand them as traitors (for going against her orders). Either way, they would end going. So she allowed them to go when Kakashi offered to check on them.
Besides... this is shounen manga... learn to know "main characters" never follow their orders.

bxgreatone87
Sun, 11-19-2006, 10:35 PM
1) There was no one else available. And even with Sharingan, Sasuke was not a "major priority" for Konoha.
.

I wont go as far as to say that wasn't a major priority. If you think about it would you really want the last clan men of one of the most powerful ninja clans to join one of your major enemies? Remeber oro almost took the village with out sasuke.... he can surely do much worse with him and the sharingan now on his side. Once he takes his body then the problems will even grow larger (if that ever hapens).

she should have found a way to get jounin to go after them, they have to have a means of communication to get ahold of one if there is something really important going on. Also if you know what the plans of your enemy is wouldnt you try to stop them at anyway possible. Since sasuke was a mjor part of oro's plan they should have made sure sasuke would never end up with him.

RyougaZell
Sun, 11-19-2006, 11:23 PM
Aside from the point that since the series is called Naruto, and it would be obvious to send him... let us see it as a "real situation".

They way I see it is like this.
Only Chuunin available post-war was Shikamaru. He requested a team of Jounin and Chuunin (how come a Chuunin can have a Jounin subordinate?), and such request was denied.
There were no available Jounin/Chuunin since they were out doing missions, mantaining the strong front of Konoha.

Sure, Tsunade could have made something to get someone but... until she could do it Sasuke would have been already gone.

Even Shizune was out on a mission. True, she came back, but she had only returned from her mission. Genma and Aoba (I believe it was him) were already defeated on their weakened state.

So in the end, there was no one else available until Kakashi arrived a few hours later (or the next day?)

And why do I say Sasuke was not priority?
True, he is the last of the Uchiha. Orochimaru wanted him. True, true, I'll give you that.

But he was also a unstable kid. Tsunade had already seen it after healing him. As Hokage and medic-nin she must have seen his files, seeing that he could be hot-headed (like when he went after Itachi).

True, a bloodline like the Sharingan is important, but mantaining the whole village has priority. Would you risk the whole village for a single ninja? Despite his bloodline, Tsunade saw she could not give priority to Sasuke, and sent whatever she had in hand. A chuunin and four genin.

What about Jiraiya? Well... I believe he cut ties with Konoha... or at least when it came to do missions. He must have been at some brothel (sp?) or something.

True, none attacked Konoha during that day/two days. But what if you made Jounin come back from their missions to get back a single shinobi? Not only would you set a bad reputation to Konoha, for abandoning missions, you would show weakness to other villages. How? word would get out about Leaf-shinobi abandoning their missions for something not war-related.

Tsunade needed to show Konoha was still strong. A Hokage needs to make though decisions, like when Yondaime sacrified himself, and "cursed" Naruto.

RasenDori
Mon, 11-20-2006, 11:31 AM
in the sasuke mission was a surprise mission and all of the jounin had already been sent on missions, and the people left were the ones that had to stay in the village. i also dont think they realized that shikamarus team would go against high ranking ninja. no one knew about the four sound except sasuke.

Assertn
Mon, 11-20-2006, 04:44 PM
1) There are alot more important things to do for a kage than to chase after a Genin that openly defied his village. If tsunade had participated in that, then she should definitely participate in the akatsuki hunt. Where do you draw the line? Obviously there's a great security risk in having the hokage leave the village for every crisis.

2) Does that make her a bad hokage? Her duty is to look out for the well-being of the village, not baby-sit every ninja that wants to fulfill their personal vendettas. Kakashi and Shikamaru are very responsible individuals, and if she has to tell them what to do all the time then what's the point of recognizing their achievements with titles such as Jounin or Chuunin in the first place? Ninjas go and fight...it's what they do. Tsunade just doesn't want them to have a clouded judgement and get in over their heads.

CapsuleCorpJX
Wed, 11-22-2006, 04:12 AM
Aside from the point that since the series is called Naruto, and it would be obvious to send him... let us see it as a "real situation".

They way I see it is like this.
Only Chuunin available post-war was Shikamaru. He requested a team of Jounin and Chuunin (how come a Chuunin can have a Jounin subordinate?), and such request was denied.
There were no available Jounin/Chuunin since they were out doing missions, mantaining the strong front of Konoha.

Sure, Tsunade could have made something to get someone but... until she could do it Sasuke would have been already gone.

Even Shizune was out on a mission. True, she came back, but she had only returned from her mission. Genma and Aoba (I believe it was him) were already defeated on their weakened state.

So in the end, there was no one else available until Kakashi arrived a few hours later (or the next day?)

And why do I say Sasuke was not priority?
True, he is the last of the Uchiha. Orochimaru wanted him. True, true, I'll give you that.

But he was also a unstable kid. Tsunade had already seen it after healing him. As Hokage and medic-nin she must have seen his files, seeing that he could be hot-headed (like when he went after Itachi).

True, a bloodline like the Sharingan is important, but mantaining the whole village has priority. Would you risk the whole village for a single ninja? Despite his bloodline, Tsunade saw she could not give priority to Sasuke, and sent whatever she had in hand. A chuunin and four genin.

What about Jiraiya? Well... I believe he cut ties with Konoha... or at least when it came to do missions. He must have been at some brothel (sp?) or something.

True, none attacked Konoha during that day/two days. But what if you made Jounin come back from their missions to get back a single shinobi? Not only would you set a bad reputation to Konoha, for abandoning missions, you would show weakness to other villages. How? word would get out about Leaf-shinobi abandoning their missions for something not war-related.

Tsunade needed to show Konoha was still strong. A Hokage needs to make though decisions, like when Yondaime sacrified himself, and "cursed" Naruto.

Sasuke's retrieval was paramount regardless of whether he'll actually agree to remain loyal to Konoha. Think about it ... Oro just nearly destroyed the entire village, now he's getting away with powerful blood-line container that will fully restore him and make him even more powerful (either the next day or 2 years from now). NO MISSION is worth letting Oro have Sasuke.

So the issue here is Sasuke's body not really his loyalty, Konoha cannot let his body leave the village and become the weapon of their mortal enemy.

I mean if it goes down to it, as a leader, I would rather order Sasuke's execution or permanent internment then allow him to defect.

So this is a crucial and horrible mistake, which even the other characters pointed out (such as Shizune).

The second issue of leadership is that Tsunade cannot control her subordinates, like Shikamaru.
A general who cannot control his troops is useless.

Here is a anecdote from one of those warring states periods in ancient China:

A long time ago, right before a major battle, a soldier stole into the enemy camp and took two heads. When he returned the General ordered him executed. When an officer protested "but he's a good soldier", the General replied "I have no doubt he is a good soldier, but I'm executing him because he acted without orders."

Munsu
Wed, 11-22-2006, 04:20 AM
The second issue of leadership is that Tsunade cannot control her subordinates, like Shikamaru.
A general who cannot control his troops is useless.


So, pretty much all the Hokages so far have been useless. They let Itachi leave Konoha, and pretty much annihilate his whole clan, they let the Sannin leave Konoha and live a life of leisure... Which includes Oro, the person who almost destroyed all of Konoha. So, apparently there hasn't been much precedent for what might be considered a good Hokage, so if Tsunade is useless, so were the others. And I'm sure that all Hokages so far have experienced some crisis like these one way or the other, we just haven't learned about them since the story is not supposed to focus on them.

And there's a difference between someone who was born to lead and aspired to be Hokage and lead Konoha and someone who was pretty much forced to take the position to prevent Konoha from going into ruin, especially someone who had no desire to lead Konoha in the first place.

So cut her some slack, if you want to blame someone, blame Sarutobi for being so weak and not take care of business properly when he was supposed to.

RyougaZell
Wed, 11-22-2006, 09:38 AM
Bud already posted a good answer for the Tsunade part conserning Shikamaru. So I'll add my new 2 cents for the part on Sasuke.


No Mission is worth letting Sasuke go?
This is why the Uchiha were so arrogant. They treated them as the best of the best on Konoha.

Would you, as a leader show weakness to your enemies (risking a new invasion) or your allies (showing them a weak front), just to save ONE shinobi, despite his bloodline?

Think it this way. You cancel all your missions so you can retrieve ONE PROBLEM Shinobi... what will happen?

All your clients will say: "What? They cancel my mission before completing it? Screw them, Im hiring Iwa-nin/Kiri-nin/Sand-nin/Grass-nin/Oto-nin next time.

All your enemies will think: "Look. They are desperate to recover a Nin, the Sound/Sand invasion must have weakened them a lot, lets get them now.

One Bloodline, despite how powerful, and how much your enemy wants it, is not worth the destruction (physically or finacially) of the whole Konohagakure.

Will you risk losing the whole Hyugas, Inuzukas, Naras, Akimimichis, etc etc etc for a single shinobi? Ironically I mentioned the four clans that had a member searching for Sasuke.

No sir... Sasuke was not worth losing whole clans or the whole village. So they just sent to retrieve him whatever was available.

kAi
Wed, 11-22-2006, 10:26 AM
They have hunter-nin for that very reason, to get and kill ninja before there secrets are revealed to other villages. The hunter-nin thing seems to be in place now.

From my point, it wouldn't so much be going out for a single shinobi, but more with a bloodline (but this goes against how this manga is done), especially one that has the power to copy jutsu, which village wouldn't want it? and try to find out the secrets, or take over his body.

RyougaZell
Wed, 11-22-2006, 10:32 AM
Through all the manga only Kirigakure has shown having Hunter-nin. We've never seen nothing more than ANBU in Konoha, yet no Hunter-nin.


edit:
change since to seen. damn grammar

kAi
Wed, 11-22-2006, 10:42 AM
Yeah, that's true, I was assuming that it would go with every village, seeming as all villages would have missing-nin of some kind. It may fall under a ANBU type job, but they seemed to be all out on missions of some kind.

Death BOO Z
Sat, 11-25-2006, 06:51 PM
Edit: Further reading - I was wrong, Shika's father also had a mission that day, never mind.

also, I came across one of my favorite scens in the manga, chapter 180 has a full moon, and at 181 it's creseant...