Bleach 98 Discussion

[6Zabuza9]

kenpachi's fight :)

heres the link http://yhbt.mine.nu/t/b98.torrent

[stratosthegreek]

Great episode, enjoyed the battle. Been waiting for weeks for this...I was the 8th person to dl it >< i "got woot" first.

[Kraco]

A good episode. It was a good decision to focus solely on one fight instead of fragmenting it. This way it got much more momentum from the beginning to the end. Like I said in previous threads, I never believed Maki could have a chance against Zaraki, but they executed this episode in a fine manner, making Maki believe he could have a chance. That's the only way the fight could be as intensive and all-out as it was.

I haven't read the manga, so I don't know what's going to happen, but considering even just this episode I think more and more Ichigo should get some formal teaching from a real shinigami. Of course he has got some training from Urahara, but to be frank, that guy is a lazy bum... Naturally I would prefer it would be Rukia who would train Ichigo... But honestly Ichigo has huge amounts of reiatsu like Kenpachi, so he should be able to pull off stunts like we saw in this episode. And since he has shown he can master techniques quite easily (shikai, bankai), he should also be able to learn nice spells like the ones Byakuya (and also Rukia) uses all the time.

[Kensee]

I'm not a big fan of fillers. With that said, this is one filler that felt like a normal episode. I don't know wheter or not it has to do with the fact that Kenpachi was in it, or if cause I'm doing my math homework (an equally orgasmic activity), but this episode was gooooood!

They did kinda re-work the usage of the stored energy and them getting upset, but it worked great for this episode. And the end of this episode ... ohh snaps, it gave me goosebumps on how it reminded me of the older, non filler episodes.

The new intro is incredible, its way better than the filler intro and, dare I say it, I'm acutally starting to like the song better than High and Mighty. Very nice visuals to the ending too! Chalk one up for the good guys.




I haven't read the manga, so I don't know what's going to happen, but considering even just this episode I think more and more Ichigo should get some formal teaching from a real shinigami. Of course he has got some training from Urahara, but to be frank, that guy is a lazy bum... Naturally I would prefer it would be Rukia who would train Ichigo... But honestly Ichigo has huge amounts of reiatsu like Kenpachi, so he should be able to pull off stunts like we saw in this episode. And since he has shown he can master techniques quite easily (shikai, bankai), he should also be able to learn nice spells like the ones Byakuya (and also Rukia) uses all the time.

We never really got to see how Urahara trained Ichigo, other then a few cutscenes here and there. They only had a few days to train, and he had to make sure at least Ichigo could swing his sword around and call his technique out by name. If he couldnt do that, baldy and or Renji would of finished him off early.

He taught his RESOLVE! I always did want to see Ichigo preform some spells, but I think Aizen mentioned how all shinigami specialize in the 3 different fields (footwork, spell, sword play i think?), and theres a limit to each one? Well ... Ichigo would be the attacking, so I dont think he will develop spell usage.

[DarthEnderX]

I'm pretty sure there was four fields, but I cant for the life of me remember what the last was. It was sword, demon magic, flash step and something else.


Anyway, awsome episode. This arc continues to show how filler can not suck as long as you don't rush it.

You actually have empathy for Maki and you actually feel something when he dies. Unlike every disposible filler character in every other series.

I mean, I've already grown attached do the other fake soul character, and I'm worried none of them are gonna live through the end of the arc. Because the arcs made me give a crap by keeping them around for more than 3 episodes.

Still, Maki's sword had too many different powers for not even being a bankai. The thing he used to try and crush Ken should have been a bankai at least.

Thing I really liked though, no bounto in the new opening or ending. Hopefully that means fillers end sometime in the next 13 episodes.

[Kraco]

I always did want to see Ichigo preform some spells, but I think Aizen mentioned how all shinigami specialize in the 3 different fields (footwork, spell, sword play i think?), and theres a limit to each one? Well ... Ichigo would be the attacking, so I dont think he will develop spell usage.

That could be the case. Learning those spells might take considerable time, as they seem like very sophisticated ways to use reiatsu. Still, I don't actually see those limits as so stiff. Byakuya is very fast, he's obviously excellent at using the demon magic, and nobody can say he couldn't use his sword well.

Perhaps Ichigo could just use raw reiatsu like Zaraki is doing all the time. It seems to be very effective indeed if you know what you are doing, and somehow I don't think it should be that hard to learn.

[Animeniax]

Freakin awesome episode!!! It was everything it should have been, and left nothing to be desired. Zaraki is such a badass. I remember the days when you knew the outcome of Ichigo's fights because he was such a badass. Then the filler started and they made him lose bankai and his confidence, and it was such a downer. No way could Zaraki ever lose his badassness like that. Well, except for that brief 2 minutes when he asked his Zanpaketou it's name, after he lost to Ichigo. But now he's back and as boss as ever. The animation for their final strike was amazing. And the best part: for once, they didn't leave it hanging and the Bounto (or supporting character) was finished, instead of being able to retreat. Great A+++++ episode.

The new OPs and EDs are pretty good, especially for filler episodes. The ending theme especially has this great artistic something something about it. Pretty sweet.

[Boomstick]

Damn who would have thought filler episodes could have been this good, I would have liked the fight to last a little longer but other then that this episode was great. Gotta say that for a filler arc i'm impressed with how they been doing except for the fact that Ichigo has seemed far to underpowered in all his fights.

[mr3vi1m0nk3y]

oh man who else was tired of ichinose stupid rant on justice and all that other crap. that whole rant just got on my nerves so bad that I was cheering when zaraki killed him.

[Animeniax]

Dude, he spent the last 100 or so years (was it that long since he left SS?) dwelling on this stuff, let him have his 5 minutes of grief before he gets owned by his nemesis. After all, it is a pretty important question about SS and how it is run. Look at the first SS arc. They were going to kill Rukia because the office of 46 said so, without explanation or further discussion. Some of the rules of SS do need to be changed, and it's weird that they'd bring it up in a filler arc instead of in the main manga storyline. I guess it wasn't something of concern to Tite, or maybe it's too early in the series for him to develop that part of the story.

I watched the OP again and didn't like it as much. I'm not that big a fan of Japanese music where they intersperse English words with Japanese words, especially when it interrupts the flow of the song.

@DarthEnder: the fourth is hand-to-hand (or "barehanded" as Lunar translates it) combat.

[mr3vi1m0nk3y]

Dude, he spent the last 100 or so years (was it that long since he left SS?) dwelling on this stuff, let him have his 5 minutes of grief before he gets owned by his nemesis. After all, it is a pretty important question about SS and how it is run. Look at the first SS arc. They were going to kill Rukia because the office of 46 said so, without explanation or further discussion. Some of the rules of SS do need to be changed, and it's weird that they'd bring it up in a filler arc instead of in the main manga storyline. I guess it wasn't something of concern to Tite, or maybe it's too early in the series for him to develop that part of the story.

I watched the OP again and didn't like it as much. I'm not that big a fan of Japanese music where they intersperse English words with Japanese words, especially when it interrupts the flow of the song.

@DarthEnder: the fourth is hand-to-hand (or "barehanded" as Lunar translates it) combat.

i agree with you, the rukia situation is a perfect example of why they might need to change the ways SS is run but ichinose's whining is still annoying. like you said he had hundreds of years to get over what happened yet he still chooses to dwell on it like a little emo kid. his former captain wasnt murdered in cold blood, he accepted zaraki's challange to a duel and he lost which is one of the legitimate ways to become a captain in SS so he must of known the risks involved.

[DDBen]

I really didn't get the impression ichinose was killed in this episode at all. He was defeated but during the entire episode it was made clear Zaraki was attempting to teach him a lesson rather then simply kill him. The battle was decent and this was one of the best filler episodes we have been given in Bleach so thats atleast a plus.

I'm definatly glad this battle finally happened it had been forshadowed for so long and it is the first real Bounto defeat sense the kids with water bottles so that tells me this arc is finally moving towards ending.

[Animeniax]

Dude, that huge spray of blood and his eyes rolling into the back of his head while blood trailed from the corners of his mouth, those tell me he's dead.

Sadly, you pretty much knew which way the fight was going to go even back when they first mentioned the Ichinose/Zaraki relationship. Darn fillers.

[Kraco]

In this case you would have known it even if this wasn't a filler. There are few men who could beat Zaraki and some renegade shinigami who has spent his last hundred of years being brainwashed by bounto criminals isn't one of them.

However, despite the fact the outcome of the fight was highly predictable, it didn't make the fight any worse, if you kept that in mind. You just have to look at different things than who is the last man standing. The fact Ichinose tried his best made the fight worth it.

[Animeniax]

Damn right, that was still one of the best fights I've seen in Bleach.

I really liked how Zaraki finished by saying "I gave it my all", which could have easily been translated to "I did my best". Nice play on Yachiru's (and something you see in most anime) wish that they "do their best".

[Yukimura]

The new OP ssequence is very good, it had a lot of foreshadowing in it that probably didn't make any sense to any non manga readers, which hopefully means they fillers will end soon. The song seems alright but it hasn't grown on me yet.

As to the episode...That was the best fight i've seen in the fillers by far. The only problem was how they danced around that light bomb ability not being Ichinose's bankai. The trend has usually been the bankai contains the Zanpakutou's name in it and that light thing (which made absolutely no sense) was called Saigyoku Nijigasumi....sounds a lot like a bankai name to me. Anyway Ichinose was a good charachter with a decent backstory and a valiant end, he will be missed...for like 1-2 episodes.

[ChaosK]

In this case you would have known it even if this wasn't a filler. There are few men who could beat Zaraki and some renegade shinigami who has spent his last hundred of years being brainwashed by bounto criminals isn't one of them.

However, despite the fact the outcome of the fight was highly predictable, it didn't make the fight any worse, if you kept that in mind. You just have to look at different things than who is the last man standing. The fact Ichinose tried his best made the fight worth it.

Would you have said an orange haired teenager who gets his powers for less than a year could be the 1st to defeat Zaraki?

Does anyone else like it when Yachiru actually gets serious and not all "big-booby" and shit? I want to see her fight an actual fight even though it'll probably never be necessary. Also I thought it was great when she bowed and then just reappeared on Zaraki's shoulder.

[Animeniax]

@chaoskiddo: Are you being sarcastic to Kraco's post or just stating a fact about the plausibility of Ichigo beating Zaraki?

I love it when Yachiru gets serious, it's so freakin' eerie. You just know she's f*cked in the head because of all the violence she saw as a kid in Rukongai, plus she's been hanging around Zaraki and the crazy 11th squad for hundreds of years. If she's tough enough to be Lieutenant of that squad, you'd better believe she can fight. And since it's 11th squad, we're talking sword skills, no kidou or flashy Zanpaketou abilities.

So actually I prefer it when she's acting childish and silly, because I don't want to see a little baby killing machine go psycho on somebody.

[Kraco]

Would you have said an orange haired teenager who gets his powers for less than a year could be the 1st to defeat Zaraki?

We all know Ichigo is a very special case, and has probably a greater potential than any of the SS shinigami's, if he's given enough time and opportunities to train himself (and if he does train). Also it needs to be remembered that Zaraki actually beat Ichigo a couple of times during that peculiar fight. While you could argue Zaraki gave Ichinose just as good opportunities to beat him as he gave Ichigo, that might not matter in the long run, because Ichinose tried to beat Zaraki using flashy special abilities, whereas Ichigo pretty much used the similar kind of brute force Zaraki used himself - and that would have been impossible for Ichinose who was a normal shinigami, not a reiatsu monster like Zaraki and Ichigo.

[Turkish-S]

We all know Ichigo is a very special case, and has probably a greater potential than any of the SS shinigami's, if he's given enough time and opportunities to train himself (and if he does train). Also it needs to be remembered that Zaraki actually beat Ichigo a couple of times during that peculiar fight. While you could argue Zaraki gave Ichinose just as good opportunities to beat him as he gave Ichigo, that might not matter in the long run, because Ichinose tried to beat Zaraki using flashy special abilities, whereas Ichigo pretty much used the similar kind of brute force Zaraki used himself - and that would have been impossible for Ichinose who was a normal shinigami, not a reiatsu monster like Zaraki and Ichigo.


And there is this demon hollow thing in Ichigo.

[Kraco]

Oh, yes. For some reason I totally forgot that!

[Mizuchi]

Oh, yes. For some reason I totally forgot that!

Yes but ichigo didn't use it in his fight with Zaraki.



The trend has usually been the bankai contains the Zanpakutou's name in it and that light thing (which made absolutely no sense) was called Saigyoku Nijigasumi....sounds a lot like a bankai name to me.

If Ichinose had a bankai, his name would have to be recorded in SS history, which we know is impossible because this is a filler.

[darkmetal505]

I don't believe Ichinose used his bankai. He just had quite a bit of reiatsu and gave it his all. Kenpachi didn't even take of his eye patch at the end, so he didn't really give it his all.

Excellent animation and relatively entertaining episode.

[.noname.silent]

I don't believe Ichinose used his bankai. He just had quite a bit of reiatsu and gave it his all. Kenpachi didn't even take of his eye patch at the end, so he didn't really give it his all.

Excellent animation and relatively entertaining episode.

but didn't zaraki kenpachi take off his eye-patch to release his reiatsu just to escape ichinose's zanpakutou's attack?

[DarthEnderX]

I think when Ken says he "gave it his all" what he was basically saying was "I didn't hold back". Essentially his way of saying "I killed him" to Yachiru. That's the impression I got from what was said, and what their expressions were.


Yes but ichigo didn't use it in his fight with Zaraki.
Are you sure about that? If you remember in that fight, when the both charged at each other for the final attack, Ichigo's reiatsu took the shape of a giant Hollow mask.

[NeoCybercoin]

Well...Ichinose did flee from SS so I dont think he had gotten his Bankai yet and he could have gotten it when hanging around with the Bounto.

[darkmetal505]

but didn't zaraki kenpachi take off his eye-patch to release his reiatsu just to escape ichinose's zanpakutou's attack?

yes, but only enough to crack the orb. He has way more than he used.

@ Neo

don't you mean couldn't instead of could

[Mizuchi]

Are you sure about that? If you remember in that fight, when the both charged at each other for the final attack, Ichigo's reiatsu took the shape of a giant Hollow mask.

I don't remember that, I'd have to rewatch the episode.

[DarthEnderX]

You should. It was pretty cool. And at the time was some kickass forshadowing.

[dragonrage]

This episode was nice, I enjoyed it. Like I said before Zaraki being killed by Ichinose was but a faint dream. I knew that he wouldn't dissappoint, that damn sikey haired bastard.

Ichinose did have his moment in the sun and it was about time that moment ended. I must say I understand his reasoning but I dispised his character, he was selfish and a spoiled child. A misguided child, ready to be someone else's tool that forge his own way of living. He even denied his true identity (shinigami) and sort to be something else. He was weak, not only in strength but also in will power. I do feel for him, his master/ idol being killed infront of his eyes and all. But I dislike the fact that he made a mockery of what his master was a part off by trying to destroy it. What a fool.

This episode re-enforced my views of Zaraki. He is just so damn cool. He is what he is and nothing more, and he has more of a brain that you give him credit for, and alot more compassionate. Not to mention that he is just so damn powerful, I can't wait to see what he would be like when he can actually become one with his sword, that would be just so damn cool. The blood lust and purity of battle that is reflected in his character is admirable. He is one of my favorite characters in the show after all.

Episode 98 really have shown us how weak Ichigo has become or rather unfocused and weak willed. I hope the old Ichigo shows up sometime soon. As far as Urahara being lazy and teaching Ichigo nothing, that is just a load of bull. What he has taught Ichigo is resolve and experience in battle. Ichigo was lacking in both. Lets face it, Ichigo is nothing more that a brut with a good heart and instincts, ( this is over simplifying it, but I think it serves the intended purpose) teaching him the use of spells (kudo (sp)) would be a waste of time. Lets not forget that Ichigo cannot control his spirit energy which is required in the use of spells, until he can do that I think spells his beyond his reach. But it would be cool to see what would happened if he tried.

With all that being said, this episode was awsome, and a filler it indeed was. I am glad that they didn't draw this out more that they had too, that would taking alot of impact out of it. Even the momentary comedic pause was really entertaining. Yachiru and Orihime, just priceless.

[Kraco]

As far as Urahara being lazy and teaching Ichigo nothing, that is just a load of bull. What he has taught Ichigo is resolve and experience in battle. Ichigo was lacking in both.

I never said he has taught Ichigo nothing. He has indeed taught Ichigo quite a few things vital to Ichigo's survival so far, but at the same time he has left great many things untaught. And it's my impression of him that he is a rather relaxed fellow, who likes to live on earth and has no plans of ever returning to SS even if he could somehow manage it. Of course I haven't read the manga, so that could happen, but right now and in the past he looks like he's just enjoying his time meddling with his own little projects.

And he's personally participating in hardly anything. In the original arc, he taught Ichigo shikai and sent the bunch to SS. In this filler arc he conjured the annoying modified souls, and after that left the fights for others to handle. Now, I'm not actually criticizing that, I'm just calling him naturally lazy because of it.

And anyway, that wasn't even my main point. My main point was that Ichigo should be taught by somebody who would bother to teach even boring little things, like simple demon magic. Urahara is more inclined to the nice grand teaching methods of: "If you can't handle this, you won't live to see tomorrow."

[dragonrage]

My comments weren't directed at you, but more to the general discussion of his teaching and his teaching methods. But I am truly glad that it was you that picked up on my post. Sorry for the long wait for my reply, been busy as of late.


Here goes my counter arguement :

Urahara is the right teacher for Ichigo, I haven't read the manga either (just stating that) but judging from what I have seen he more than anyone else understands Ichigo. Why am I saying this... can you honestly think of anyone better to teach him, and if you can who. Also if my theory is right Ichigo is what Urahara wanted to create and failed particially. I don't know if you remember this but at the end of the Soul Society arc, (one the flying carpet) Urahara said to Yurichi that after all this time of waiting it is finally here, or something to that extent.

The reason why I say that Urahara knows Ichigo better than anyone else he knows what is capable of and so does Yurichi, but as the saying goes a flower doesn't blossom before it's time. I believe Ichigo was taught exactly what was needed for him to progress onto the next stage. Urahara teaching him reasolve and experience, Zaraki sorta teaching him materialization and Yurichi teaching him shunpo and bankai using the method Urahara developed.

It is not like time really permitted Urahara to really sit down and teach Ichigo something, and also we all know that Ichigo's powers is directly linked to his emotional state, also he is not totally aware of what his powers really are yet. So teaching him anything else is like putting a RPG rocket into the hands of a child. It will do more harm than good.


Also I stated before that Ichigo CANNOT control his riatsu very well and controling ones spirit energy is a very important part of learning spells, look at Zaraki, he need the eye patch to help him control his spirit energy and also he knows no spells. A prime example is when they flashed back into Rukia's / Renji's past at the Shinigami school, what happened when Renji didn't properly control his spirit energy, it blew up in his face. Now imagine something like that happening with Ichigo, we all know what his control is like from when he was trying to create the spirit orb. It took all his focus and will power to control it and it still blew up the first time he tried it, heck it even tilted the entire building. Also even when they all were in the orb, he was over powering all of them combined. So simply put spells is alittle out of his reach at this time, because he lack the control to perform them.

Urahara will teach him as the need arises directly and indirectly when he is ready for such training.

Also if he taught Ichigo everything then the anime will be boring wouldn't it. Part of the greatness of Bleach is that fact that Ichigo learns directly from life experiences and is not, trail and error so to say in real life situation because that is the only way he can really achieve the emotional state that is needed for him to progress. In a sense it is mainly because of this fact that Urahara is limited to what he can teach Ichigo.

Remember that Ichigo (the new generation) is the main character and not Urahara (the old generation). But I am eagerly awaiting to see what Beshime can do. That Bitch looks wicked, and I want to see what Urahara is TRULY capable of, since Yurichi made a remark that it is true that Ichigo might be able to surpass "him", I am 99.9 percent sure that, that statement reffers to Urahara. Just so you know Urahara is another one of my favorite characters. I would like to tell you, not come to any conclusions about him, he is yet to surprise us all, atleast that is what I feel from looking at the anime series.

[Kraco]

Well, I'm not really inclined to try to counter many of your points, because they are basically correct. However, I'll cover a bit more ground with some particular points of my own, referring to parts of your post and my own older ones.

It's true Ichigo could encounter serious troubles learning spells. However, referring to the orb of the SS arc might not be accurate. It required careful control of reiatsu level for an extended period of time. Some simple attack spells most likely would require just explosive release of reiatsu, and that should be more natural for Ichigo.

And like I said in an earlier post, there are other things Ichigo could learn, like not getting wounded by weaker enemy attacks. Aizen of course showed some really high levels of that, but Zaraki has also displayed that skill quite nicely. And since Zaraki hasn't even mastered a shikai, it can't be that hard. Right now no matter how lousy an enemy, he can get Ichigo's blood bleeding.

But most of all, and I really mean most of all, I would just like to see Rukia teach (or try to teach to be realistic) Ichigo demon magic. I can picture in my mind how bloody hilarious that would be, plus I always enjoy seeing those two together.

[dragonrage]

But most of all, and I really mean most of all, I would just like to see Rukia teach (or try to teach to be realistic) Ichigo demon magic. I can picture in my mind how bloody hilarious that would be, plus I always enjoy seeing those two together.


Yes it truly would, her picture book drawings are truly the best.