Discovery Atlas: China [Archive]

Mizuchi

Sun, 10-01-2006, 10:14 PM

I found this show amazing, especially the story of jin yang (I think her name was). A 12 year old doing things that senior gymnists at my highschool can only dream of doing. All my life people in school kept telling me "you are so lucky to live in america". Well, after seeing this I think differently. China is so well organized and the type of training they have for anything at all exceeds most training you will commonly find in america tenfold.

In China, the average 5th grader excels in algebra 2. I was at the nurses office one day, and a junior came in, and the nurse asked him what class he had next. The kid answered: "Pre-algebra". :confused:

China they don't have overweight people, and all who are stupid are sent to work in factories to make themselves useful. They are a very effecient country, and use everything they can and only for the right purpose for each creature.

They cook snakes, frogs, almost anything you can think of, where here we have a small variety of foods to eat compared to the east.

China is also much stricter though. For just crossing the border into china with a small bag of illegal grass in your back pocket, you are sentanced to the death penalty, where here you see parties of like 8th graders smoking pot and drinking their asses off.

Well now, that was my 2 cents on the show. Discuss.

bagandscalpel

Sun, 10-01-2006, 10:30 PM

Sounds great! Much better than this dingy hole-in-the-wall known as the West!

Tell you what, go to China, live there for a spell (and I mean LIVE there), then come back and report to me. If you can still retain the same zest for it that you have shown in this topic, then I'll give you a cookie.

Board of Command

Sun, 10-01-2006, 10:45 PM

As a Chinese person who lived in China for over 8 years, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Canada is a much better place to live in than China.

Psyke

Mon, 10-02-2006, 09:25 AM

I'd rather visit Japan a dozen times than visit China. Not that I don't like the place but I don't think I can get along with the people there. Their customs, way of living, traditions, etc. I'm Chinese too but just too westernised/Japanised (if there's such a word).

xDarkMaster

Mon, 10-02-2006, 09:37 AM

As a Chinese person who lived in China for over 8 years, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Canada is a much better place to live in than China.

QFT.

As another Chinese person who has been to China over 10 times I can definitely say without doubt that it isn't as good as America or Canada. China isn't as great as you make it out to be, in fact it is probably worse than you can imagine.

Yukimura

Mon, 10-02-2006, 09:38 AM

From the reports of my friend who spent a year at the 'Number 2 University' ion China, I would haveto say CHina sounds like a terrible place to live. He told me all the students at the school just fucked around until the exams then cheated there asses off. He was a big fan of China, having visited for weeks or months at a time, however after spending that year there, he says he never wants to go back.

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 09:53 AM

He told me all the students at the school just fucked around until the exams then cheated there asses off.

If you havent read the artical a while back, a teacher in kansas caught 1/4 of her class cheating on a project that was worth a big chunk of her grade, and failed them. Even before she gave the assignment, she made them and their parents sign a contract that they would not cheat and if they did they would fail the assignment. The parents were idiots and irresponsible and whined to the school board, who in turn overturned the teacher's decision and made te project worth a very small amount. The teacher now knew that no one would take her seriously anymore and quit the job.

People all over the world view america as the "Cheating Nation", because this happens everywhere. I'm not insulting america or anything, I am just backing up China when you say that they cheated. And besides, I think they can relax on learning a bit seeing how they are much further up on the technology scale than us.

Also, I am not trying to make China sound like the best country. This thread is for those who saw the documentary. Everything I am saying is based off the show, now get back on topic.

Assassin

Mon, 10-02-2006, 12:04 PM

And besides, I think they can relax on learning a bit seeing how they are much further up on the technology scale than us.

Techhnology has nothing to do with learning. A faster computer or a more advanced calculator doesn't make it easier to learn something.

Everything I am saying is based off the show, now get back on topic

Everyone has just been replying to your post, so nobody is currently off topic.

Terracosmo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 12:56 PM

All my life people in school kept telling me "you are so lucky to live in america". Well, after seeing this I think differently.

For just crossing the border into china with a small bag of illegal grass in your back pocket, you are sentanced to the death penalty,

Do you even read what you write?

mage

Mon, 10-02-2006, 01:40 PM

I was going to watch the re-run last night at 1am, but then 30 mins into it I realized it's like 3 hours long or some shit. Guess I'll download it.

XanBcoo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 03:02 PM

In b4 Communism.

But seriously, I've been to China. It was good for a visit, but I don't think I could live there. Also, thinking about those Chinese kids being overworked in school makes me think they'd probably be pretty stressed and unhappy all the time. I'm not saying all of them would be (every country has workaholics), but that's not the kind of life I'd force on my kid, even if he could do Calculus by the time he was 12.

Terracosmo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 04:00 PM

I hear they eat the brains of monkeys in China. Watch out, Mizuchi!

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 04:04 PM

I hear they eat the brains of monkeys in China. Watch out, Mizuchi!

Do YOU even read what you write?

Terracosmo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 05:19 PM

I didn't read it the first time, but when I saw you quote it I did and I subsequently laughed realizing my own level of hilarity. Ah, good times.

mage

Mon, 10-02-2006, 05:22 PM

Do YOU even read what you write?
He called you a monkey.

ChaosK

Mon, 10-02-2006, 05:50 PM

Mizuchi, what you have described in your first post is a utopia. China is unfortunately, not a utopia. There are horrible conditions everywhere, you might find people, thats right people taking shits in the middle of the street, not animals, PEOPLE. Now then, in the form of a utopia, there are no fat people in China. Can you honestly believe that?

Again in the utopia, everybody is equal and everybody is the same, correct? AC is scarce in China aside from at corperation buildings, malls and such. The people there rarely turn on their AC even if they have one. There are people bitching about 80 degrees weather while blasting their AC at 60, then you go to China and its 100 without AC, I'm pretty sure I'd much rather America.

China is veerry unsanitary. As I said with people shitting in the middle of the street and such. Here you have to pick up after the dogs, let alone yourself. :rolleyes:

Okay lets keep going, you said a person crossing the border with weed would be sentanced to death (which isn't even true) there is no fucking drinking law in China. Let's see...we walk into a bar and see 10 year olds smashed...lovely aint it?

Mage was it necessary to explain it? That killed it.

Board of Command

Mon, 10-02-2006, 06:18 PM

From the reports of my friend who spent a year at the 'Number 2 University' ion China, I would haveto say CHina sounds like a terrible place to live. He told me all the students at the school just fucked around until the exams then cheated there asses off.
The education system in China is the exact opposite of the West. It's living hell from grade 1 to 12, and easy as pie once you actually get into university. That's why you find most university students just screwing around all the time - because they can afford to. The toughest part is university entrance, and after that you're basically set.

Also, thinking about those Chinese kids being overworked in school makes me think they'd probably be pretty stressed and unhappy all the time.
No kid in China has a social life. It's just school work and extracurricular classes/lessons all week long.

you might find people, thats right people taking shits in the middle of the street, not animals, PEOPLE.
Hey man, don't be making fun of me.

ChaosK

Mon, 10-02-2006, 06:53 PM

Oh right, BoC reminded me, in China you have to take tests for every stage of school (except elementary? I'm not sure about this one). You are pressured from the moment you exit elementary school (or maybe even before) to take entrance exams to middle school, then again for high school, and finally for college.

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 06:56 PM

Okay lets keep going, you said a person crossing the border with weed would be sentanced to death (which isn't even true)

If you actually watched the show you would notice it is true. A man tried to smuggle in drugs into china. They caught him, and he was sentanced to death. Actually watch the documentary before you comment on the thread next time.

Oh right, BoC reminded me, in China you have to take tests for every stage of school (except elementary? I'm not sure about this one). You are pressured from the moment you exit elementary school (or maybe even before) to take entrance exams to middle school, then again for high school, and finally for college.

I know. My brother has a chinese friend who was probably not going to pass the tests and would've been sent to work in a factory, but was lucky enough and was able to move here. He is thought of as a genius here by his peers.

ChaosK

Mon, 10-02-2006, 07:02 PM

So, present day China, I walk in with weed in my pocket, I'm gonna get sentanced to death? And then killed?

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 07:10 PM

So, present day China, I walk in with weed in my pocket, I'm gonna get sentanced to death? And then killed?

I don't know, but in the documentary which I doubt is false, it showed a man trying to smuggle drugs in a car into china. The cops pulled him over, found the drugs, and it showed to cop talking to the camera (dubbed).

"The punishment for smuggling drugs into china is harsh. This man will now be sentanced to death".

Answer your question?

Terracosmo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 07:13 PM

Are you sure you didn't confuse "sentenced to death" with "sentenced to eat monkey brains" ?

Board of Command

Mon, 10-02-2006, 07:15 PM

I don't know, but in the documentary which I doubt is false, it showed a man trying to smuggle drugs in a car into china. The cops pulled him over, found the drugs, and it showed to cop talking to the camera (dubbed).

"The punishment for smuggling drugs into china is harsh. This man will now be sentanced to death".

Answer your question?
Was the smuggler Chinese? I don't think you get tried under Chinese laws if you aren't a Chinese citizen.

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 07:18 PM

Are you sure you didn't confuse "sentenced to death" with "sentenced to eat monkey brains" ?

I'm as sure they said "sentanced to death" as I'm sure how useless your post is.

Was the smuggler Chinese? I don't think you get tried under Chinese laws if you aren't a Chinese citizen.

I'm pretty sure the punishment for that law is the same for everyone.

bagandscalpel

Mon, 10-02-2006, 07:26 PM

Again in the utopia, everybody is equal and everybody is the same, correct? AC is scarce in China aside from at corperation buildings, malls and such. The people there rarely turn on their AC even if they have one. There are people bitching about 80 degrees weather while blasting their AC at 60, then you go to China and its 100 without AC, I'm pretty sure I'd much rather America.

The best part? The Tianemen Square Mausoleum's AC is perpetually on full blast.

Even better? The fake flowers you purchase for the late Chairman are probably recycled by the end of the day.

As a Chinese American, even I could tell the place wasn't for me, just by visiting.

darkmetal505

Mon, 10-02-2006, 07:46 PM

Consider this Mizu, if you lived in China, you probably would not have been able to make this thread. If you did, you would probably face some nasty consequences.

xDarkMaster

Mon, 10-02-2006, 07:55 PM

I'm pretty sure the punishment for that law is the same for everyone.

Doubt they have the authority to sentence, let's say, an American citizen to death for bringing in weed.

I'm also 100% sure that they don't have the death penalty for every case.

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 08:01 PM

Doubt they have the authority to sentence, let's say, an American citizen to death for bringing in weed.

I'm also 100% sure that they don't have the death penalty for every case.

Like I said I'm not too sure, what I'm saying is based off what I saw on the show. But let's say an american citizen goes into China and throws a grenade into a restaurante, picks up an AK-47 and shoots 37 people. I'm pretty sure China would have the authority to shoot the man on sight.

Smuggling drugs and mass homicide are both crimes punishable by death in China, why would they have the authority to properly punish one and not the other? (Like I said, I am not entirely sure, I'm just wondering)

XanBcoo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 08:28 PM

Did some quick research on the Chinese Death Penalty:
http://www.deadfrog.us/index.php?act=entry&id=7135

The People’s Republic of China continues to carry out more judicial executions than the rest of the world combined. In addition, despite having the largest population in the world, China possibly executes a higher proportion of its population than any other country
Rivaled only by Texas, I'm sure (:D native Texan speaking). But here's the real (highly relevant) meat:

Behind these facts lies a criminal justice system which cannot and does not guarantee a fair trial under international law to defendants. Often defendants are denied their right to legal representation until after they have been interrogated, and even then, access in practice is strictly limited. The period of pre-arrest or pre-trial detention is often arbitrary, lasting in one extreme case for 28 years. Torture by police in China is rife, but there is no provision under Chinese law to exclude from court ‘confessions’ or other ‘evidence’ extorted through torture. In practice, there is no presumption of innocence.
Boy, what a place...I'm no government student, but I'm sure this system is not entirely fair.

From Wikipedia:

Capital punishment is applied flexibly to a wide range of crimes, some of which are punishable by death in no other judicial system in the world. Economic crimes such as tax fraud have appeared routinely among the dockets of those receiving the death sentence, as have relatively small-scale drug offenses. Death is also frequently imposed on repeat offenders whose individual crimes would be considered relatively minor in most judicial systems, such as non-violent theft or causing incidental bodily harm that is not life threatening or debilitating. Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate crimes, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted theft or attempted fraud. The recidivistic nature of the offenses, not their seriousness per se, is what is adjudicated to merit the capital sentence. One could hardly fail to note certain similarities between the executions of repeat offenders in China as part of the "Strike Hard" campaigns and the "three strikes" policy in California which puts repeat offenders behind bars for life even if individual offenses have been relatively minor.
It doesn't mention narcotics anywhere in there, but I'd imagine if they've applied the death penalty to non-violent theft in cases, they might apply it to drug posession. Also:

The best part? The Tianemen Square Mausoleum's AC is perpetually on full blast.

You've gotta be shitting me. That's too funny/ridiculous to be true.

Terracosmo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 08:30 PM

Mizuchi, you should start working at a travelling bureau. Your zest when it comes to promoting a country where people apparently take dumps on the streets in broad daylight is nothing short of legendary.

"Yes, come to China now! The land of the future! But don't bring anything with you, it might literally kill you! Har har, just kidding (or am I?). Order now and one of our highly educated 9-year olds will in a moment supply you with all your needs, be they stealing your social life or just reading a few segments of Mao Zedong litterature out loud! Top off your dreamy vacation by attempting to gather rice from any of the already depleted farms, this vastly overpopulated country will not hesitate to give you the vacation of YOUR dreams!"

Comedy in the name of bad taste +1.

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 08:42 PM

@XanBcoo
I thank you, now maybe people will realize that yes, there is infact a death penalty for smuggling drugs, even if it took about 10 tries to get them to realize that. Atleast we have terra to entertain us along our path to enlightenment.

Boy, what a place...I'm no government student, but I'm sure this system is not entirely fair.

I'm no government student either, but I think this is to prevent bribes, blackmail, and corruption among those in the judicial branch. It is much easier for them in their huge population to say, if you break the law, you die, than to have a court meeting every time someone in their 1.3 billion population commits a crime. Also, I think it is an attempt to become one step closer to a more perfect society where wrong-doers don't exist. When my brother worked at the local Shop Rite, one of his black friends we knew from a long time ago who also worked at Shop Rite had moved to Virginia or Georgia (can't remember which). There one of his white friends murdered a black persion, and nothing happened to him. In fear he moved back up north. Maybe China's policy is to prevent this?

"Yes, come to China now! The land of the future! But don't bring anything with you, it might literally kill you! Har har, just kidding (or am I?).

That made me chuckle. :)

XanBcoo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 08:54 PM

Mizuchi, I didn't look all that up in hopes of supporting you, I did it to provide some basis on fact with reliable information and sources. This is what you should have done in the first place, instead of making almost random claims based on a show you didn't provide much information about (can we at least have a link to a review of the documentary or something??). On top of that, you said yourself you were somewhat unsure of the details:
Like I said I'm not too sure, what I'm saying is based off what I saw on the show.
You started this thread with next to no knowledge of the subject, yet you defended your highly misinformed opinion adamantly, even when you were presented with opposing information coming from people who have actually been to and lived in China. Don't you dare say "I told you so".

I'm no government student either, but I think this is to prevent bribes, blackmail, and corruption among those in the judicial branch. It is much easier for them in their huge population to say, if you break the law, you die, than to have a court meeting every time someone in their 1.3 billion population commits a crime. Also, I think it is an attempt to become one step closer to a more perfect society where wrong-doers don't exist. When my brother worked at the local Shop Rite, one of his black friends we knew from a long time ago who also worked at Shop Rite had moved to Virginia or Georgia (can't remember which). There one of his white friends murdered a black persion, and nothing happened to him. In fear he moved back up north. Maybe China's policy is to prevent this?
I have no idea. I'm completely disinterested in politics, but at least now you're thinking about what you write. I take back about half of what I just said. Though I must say, I don't think executing every other criminal is the best way of going about creating a "perfect society". That's completely insane.

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 08:57 PM

Mizuchi, I didn't look all that up in hopes of supporting you, I did it to provide some basis on fact with reliable information and sources. This is what you should have done in the first place, instead of making almost random claims based on a show you didn't provide much information about (can we at least have a link to a review of the documentary or something??). On top of that, you said yourself you were somewhat unsure of the details:
You started this thread with next to no knowledge of the subject, yet you defended your highly misinformed opinion adamantly, even when you were presented with opposing information coming from people who have actually lived in China. Don't you dare say "I told you so".

On the subject whether or not there was a death penalty on smuggling drugs, yes I did have knowledge that there was, where people who had no knowledge of the subject claimed there wasn't. This thread was meant for people who saw the documentary, and you can probably find a review on it using www.google.com

Though I must say, I don't think executing every other criminal is the best way of going about creating a "perfect society". That's completely insane.

Insane in our opinions, yes. But perhaps for the chinese government (or whatever type of leadership they have), it would be a huge hassle to set up a court with that dense of a population. We in america have enough court cases as it is, try multiplying that by over 4.

Also, it might very well be their way of achieving a "perfect society". The police officer even said after making the arrest, something like "I feel very proud about my job. I feel like every day I am removing parts of the dark side of China."

ChaosK

Mon, 10-02-2006, 09:07 PM

Mizuchi, what I meant was I question the age of the documentary (when it was made)

xDM: dont you give up your american rights when you cross the border?

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 09:08 PM

Mizuchi, what I meant was I question the age of the documentary (when it was made)

Does it matter when it was made if it's still in use? :confused:

xDarkMaster

Mon, 10-02-2006, 09:24 PM

xDM: dont you give up your american rights when you cross the border?

I'm pretty sure that you do have to obey the laws of the country you're in, however something like the death penalty has different rules I'm sure. I mean, I doubt they could just kill a citizen of another country without the UN getting involved.

XanBcoo

Mon, 10-02-2006, 09:41 PM

On the subject whether or not there was a death penalty on smuggling drugs, yes I did have knowledge that there was, where people who had no knowledge of the subject claimed there wasn't. This thread was meant for people who saw the documentary, and you can probably find a review on it using www.google.com
'Kay. I found the show's official site for anyone interested: http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/atlas/china/china.html?clik=visit_site. From what I can tell it does seem to address China's destitute population. I found a quote from some rice farmers saying "we can now eat better, and we have better clothes. Now, we've even bought a fridge and a TV!" and a quote from a middle aged construction worker saying "I just want to buy a car. Any car will do." And these are supposed to be the people representative of China's population. Given this, how did you form such a positive opinion about China, Mizuchi? Surely you don't think that because 5th graders are taking Algebra 2, and that some gymnast feels she's accomplished that it makes China's system ideal. Though, I didn't see the whole show, so I can't say much else.

Insane in our opinions, yes. But perhaps for the chinese government (or whatever type of leadership they have), it would be a huge hassle to set up a court with that dense of a population. We in america have enough court cases as it is, try multiplying that by over 4.

Also, it might very well be their way of achieving a "perfect society". The police officer even said after making the arrest, something like "I feel very proud about my job. I feel like every day I am removing parts of the dark side of China."
Golly! Well if that is indeed true I'm glad I don't live there. Again, I'm directly referring to your first post, hyping China's values. So far, we've had more "cons" than "pros" in terms of a Western way of thinking about China.

Mizuchi

Mon, 10-02-2006, 10:14 PM

'Kay. I found the show's official site for anyone interested: http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/atlas/china/china.html?clik=visit_site. From what I can tell it does seem to address China's destitute population. I found a quote from some rice farmers saying "we can now eat better, and we have better clothes. Now, we've even bought a fridge and a TV!" and a quote from a middle aged construction worker saying "I just want to buy a car. Any car will do." And these are supposed to be the people representative of China's population. Given this, how did you form such a positive opinion about China, Mizuchi? Surely you don't think that because 5th graders are taking Algebra 2, and that some gymnast feels she's accomplished that it makes China's system ideal. Though, I didn't see the whole show, so I can't say much else.

Golly! Well if that is indeed true I'm glad I don't live there. Again, I'm directly referring to your first post, hyping China's values. So far, we've had more "cons" than "pros" in terms of a Western way of thinking about China.

Yes, I understand what you are trying to say. All i can say is try to find a download of the clip and watch it, so you might get a better understanding from my point of view.

Board of Command

Mon, 10-02-2006, 10:34 PM

Construction worker wants to buy a car?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

The cost to buy a car and maintain it in China is absurd. For a construction worker to even consider this idea is hard for me to believe, unless by car he means one of those ghetto "tri-wheel cars" or one of those shitty 8' pickup. The word "car" in Chinese can mean any automobile. But if he meant a Jetta (typical taxi car) then I'm sorry, they interviewed someone with mental disorders.

PS: This is a "tri-wheel car."

http://www.pocopico.com/china/images/truck.jpg

This is a shitty 8' pickup:

http://www.carla.umn.edu/lctl/VPA/chinese/imgpg/kids_in_truck.jpeg

mage

Mon, 10-02-2006, 11:04 PM

China is a pure, absolute shit hole (literally apparantly), and anyone who says it isn't has no clue what they're talking about (Mizuchi).

Board of Command

Mon, 10-02-2006, 11:09 PM

China is a pure, absolute shit hole (literally apparantly)
You know, they actually have shit holes in the extremly rural areas. To keep things simple...

bathroom = shit hole in the ground inside a little shack

I would have taken a picture of one but didn't have a camera on hand.

bagandscalpel

Tue, 10-03-2006, 01:34 AM

You know, they actually have shit holes in the extremly rural areas. To keep things simple...

bathroom = shit hole in the ground inside a little shack

I would have taken a picture of one but didn't have a camera on hand.

Heh, and here I was wondering whether to raise the "squatting-shitter" topic.

Which reminds me, can anyone confirm the existance of human meatbuns?

Kraco

Tue, 10-03-2006, 04:15 AM

But let's say an american citizen goes into China and throws a grenade into a restaurante, picks up an AK-47 and shoots 37 people. I'm pretty sure China would have the authority to shoot the man on sight.

That has little to do with the judicial system. If a mass murderer is killing people left and right, bringing him down by any means available is the only option for the police. But even in China the police is not regularly, I believe, the one dealing out sentences. It's the judicial system. A small-time drug smuggler can be arrested peacefully, as opposed to a person equipped with an AK-47 and hand grenades.

I'm no government student either, but I think this is to prevent bribes, blackmail, and corruption among those in the judicial branch. It is much easier for them in their huge population to say, if you break the law, you die, than to have a court meeting every time someone in their 1.3 billion population commits a crime. Also, I think it is an attempt to become one step closer to a more perfect society where wrong-doers don't exist.
There's also an inherent contradiction hidden in that line of thought. If there's no fair and complete judicial system but something that is "efficient for such a large population" then it means people can't trust it and in order to survive they have no choice but to rely on bribes or powerful friends, that is, corruption. Only a perfect legal system that is fair to everybody ensures nobody needs to hand out money and favours to get fair treatment (needs or it's of any use).

Well, China occupied position 78 in Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index 2005. I suppose it indicates they haven't totally lost the war to the corruption, but there would also be much room for improvement.

Lefty

Tue, 10-03-2006, 04:59 AM

Lets not forget that China is sitll a communist state, but they hide it under the venire of westernizaton. But at the rate China is growing it will reach it's critical mass and collapse with in the next decade or two. Black Tuesday will seem like a cake walk when China goes tits up.

Board of Command

Tue, 10-03-2006, 04:42 PM

China is definitely not a communist state.

Lefty

Tue, 10-03-2006, 05:25 PM

I assure you China is still a Communist state. They still have the party, peopel are opprest just as they were before but now thye have a middle class to hisde the xream poverty the lower class lives in. All of the people they showed were middle class, very well off. The atlas thing was one giant prodapganda film in a way. it only shows the bright shinnny side of China. I mean you can't even film in the country with a govement envoy watching everything you do, every question you ask, and what the interviewie says. Oh yeah it's an open state.